Why Mercedes’ bad F1 years are so unlike Red Bull’s

[@brendanmccallion2350]

My memory of Red Bull from 2014 to 2018 was that they never had a bad car, just a really crap PU that cost them year after year. Makes you really appreciate how they took the plunge with Honda and gave them an opportunity to rebuild. Think its a story that warrants its own video or documentary imo.

[@stu8758]

That's the thing, on the aero-style tracks Red Bull were still competitive in those years.

[@rodmanhatten]

Especially after McLaren had taken all the initial risk with Honda & got nothing for it!

[@dylanburston7453]

They had a crap car for a couple of those years (15 and 17) but the biggest issue was definitely the PU which was underpowered and unrelaible But RB as a team was still good with pitstops and strategies and the like. Mercedes was 7th in pitstops in 2023 (whilst RB,Ferrari and Mclaren were 1 2 and 3 respectively) They have squabbling drivers, a principle more intrested in calling horner smelly than fixing the team, losing key personell left and right and they got out developed by Ferrari who had half the upgrades. When RB made a bad car (even then it was down to c customer component) the team was solid. Mercedes as a whole is in decline

[@Reaz399]

The RB in 2014 was probably the best car aero/chassis wise, 2016 was great too just like 17 and 19. In 2018 RB had the best car in terms of chassis and aero imo. That slow and unreliable baguette engine really held them back so much and even the Honda PU in 19/20 was still way off the Merc PU. Even in 2021 when Honda brought their completely new PU they were still behind Merc‘s PU but close enough to actually compete and that‘s what they did. The first year with a competitive PU in the turbo hybrid era and they fought for the title immediately.

[@Meklerens]

it will be interesting to see aston martin with honda and RB with ford

[@MrRufus1111]

2020 mercs in party mode were fucking nuts

[@vibecheck663]

I'm a Red Bull fan, but I couldn't help but love the Mercedes in 2020

[@arroe8386]

the advantage of having a bad chassi compared to a bad engine is that you can at least see the chassis of your competitors

[@rizalevans483]

That is true, Like enzo ferrari said "aerodynamics is for people who cant make engines" i think merc did that.

[@jame8618]

@@rizalevans483 tbh i think people dont respect mercedes aero enough. I agree with your statement from 2014-2016 byt 2017 through 2020 the chassis was very good. I mean they took it to ferraris rocket engine in 2019 and in 2020 had some of the highest apex speeds. After 2021 though both the chassis and engine have fallen off heavily

[@bruhhhhmoment4848]

@@jame8618people love to say they just had a good engine I think that is bs just look at the w11 it was going flat out in many corners completely fine

[@jame8618]

@@bruhhhhmoment4848 yeah the w10 and w11 had insane cornering speeds and mercedes were knowing for being the quickest in medium and high speed corners where as red bull dominated sharp and slow corners

[@LiftandCoa]

​​@@rizalevans483Enzo Ferrari was also wrong in saying that. Man was old school and didnt understood how the sport changes. If your aero is bad, you dont win a single race in F1. Could have an engine powered by god himself and it helps nothing. Merc was great at both, and could made the best of both. Now that wouldnt be an accurate description tho.

[@ananastudio]

Manor coming up with a design that greatly helped Mercedes is like your friend that is not very good at the game but can somehow come in clutch to win the game once in a blue moon.

[@jasperli]

I think Mercedes did a great disservice to Manor by not saving it. Even worse, Wolff would turn around just 2 years later and vouch for a 3rd “young driver” car be made available to teams since he couldn’t find Ocon a new seat & lost Wehrlein the year before.

[@thewoode1050]

Basically RedBull got screwed by a bad engine, while merc screwed themselves

[@nathancoleman8792]

Yes

[@jb-y1487]

Redbull screwed themselves in 2014 what are you talking about 😂

[@camcambambam5128]

@@jb-y1487nah Renault engine was crap for all those years. And it’s still slightly crap

[@jb-y1487]

@@camcambambam5128 Redbull are only dominant because the do half the job of Mercedes Redbull are overrated Watch when the engine freeze ends

[@christianbakker1991]

​@@jb-y1487sore fan detected.

[@ericbryant8196]

The big missing aspect of this piece that also makes the Mercedes fall different: The cost cap and aero testing restrictions. If this had happened in 2014, Mercedes would have fixed all of their problems in season by dumping their mighty resources into matching what Red Bull had. The regulations really prevent that from being possible when you start that far behind.

[@Ixxlostinabox]

Ironic that those things were designed to try bring the competition closer together yet its done quite the opposite for Merc.

[@MohamedLamkhizni]

​​​​@MrSnrSquisghy it was close until some TP of Silver car start whining to F1 his car have suffer of more popoising and hurt samoene back kinda😂 becouse it and the F1 Introduce the TD39 in Spa and Red bull dominant F1 ever since and the floor reg Ride Hight aswell Toto must be love Red bull alot 😂😂😂😭🤣

[@Ruylopez778]

Those are two factors. I think the bigger issue is that they lot many technical people and didn't replace them sufficiently. As Allison has said, 'car concept' is not about the specifics of what you make, but the philosophy you use i.e. what your objectives are. They were clearly too focused on a theoretical performance, without taking into account the possibility of porpoising. On top of that, they spent the winter of 2021 complaining about the season, and the first half of 2022 complaining about other teams and trying to get the ride height raised. If they had sacrificed 2022 for 2023 they might have made a proper step forward.

[@autograndeunlimited]

​@@MohamedLamkhiznispeak English

[@zemurph]

Well it was a similar rule that all but locked in Mercedes' advantage those years. The engine development token system. Prevented teams from putting adequate resources into correcting power deficits.

[@DanielLorey]

I recall listening to a Beyond the Grid podcast with James Allison (if I remember) who said they ran the 2014 engine in an idle mode to downplay their advantage. They knew if they ran it near the full potential it would get banned… in fact it was only Bahrain (the duel in the desert) where Lewis and Nico were able to wind up the engine to anywhere near the real potential. Go back and you’ll see them pulling 1-2s PER LAP on the field. It was mental.

[@KuK137]

Yeah, it was nuts. Remember how good 2014 Williams was on tiny budget with it? They regularly grabbed podiums! Try saying this today despite far greater funding now!

[@Joeseffel]

Well, Lewis seems to agree with you anyway

[@aaaargl]

i think it's wrong to say that the Ferrari dominance ended because of different reasons than RB or Mercs. it was also regulation changes that where implemented to stop Ferrari dominance and mix the field up that led to "the magic fading"

[@HootMaRoot]

That's what happens with most major rules changes, they are designed to slow down the fastest team/teams

[@aaaargl]

@@HootMaRoot of course it is, but the entry statement of the video told a different story

[@HootMaRoot]

@@aaaargl if they didn't tell this story they wouldn't get the views got to make it dramatic for everyone that hasn't been watching f1 for the last 20 to 40 years

[@ebiscaia]

And similarly to RedBull’s case, Bridgestone was the supplier that could not give a competitive set of tyres to Ferrari

[@bueyhohang]

Wow, thats one of the best breakdowns The Race has done. And thats sayign a lot. I had it on during lunch at work and got a crowd of a dozen by the end. Mega work team.

[@chlcrk]

Perhaps one of the big surprises in this video is noting that Mercedes once borrowed car dev ideas from Manor and that it ended up being a revelation

[@tobbsnobb1366]

You have to consider all ideas, i think RB copied something that was found on the Williams in 2022 as well. Cant remember what it was, but it was a step forward

[@robh_uk]

@@tobbsnobb1366 rounded edges of the diffuser iirc

[@MohamedLamkhizni]

​@@tobbsnobb1366RB copying Williams in 2022 😭😭😭🤣

[@tobbsnobb1366]

@@MohamedLamkhizni well they did. Not copy a whole car, but an idea that Williams used was later retrofited to the RB18, Newey himself said it

[@MohamedLamkhizni]

​@@tobbsnobb1366damn i dont know it tanks so that idea didnt work for Williams and work for Red bull ?😮

[@michaelsanders3395]

Probably my favourite video of yours to date. Incredibly well researched and explained

[@erdngtn9942]

This is an amazing video. Easily understandable. You guys should start a series with a special name for tech videos that aren’t as dreary as other channels. Best I’ve seen.

[@vandalsgarage]

Red Bull's first "dominant era" of four consecutive double titles included two years where the drivers title was decided in the last race, and Seb only beat Fernando in the Ferrari by 3 or 4 points.

[@jimrustle270]

That’s because Vettel wasn’t a particularly good driver, not because Newey was any less of a genius. If anything, winning with average drivers like Villeneuve or Vettel is more of an achievement than an excellent one like Verstappen.

[@danilonikolic4188]

​​@@jimrustle270 Calling Vettel an average and "not particularly good" driver is delusional. He is top 10 driver all time whether you like it or not. By your logic Mark Webber must be below average or even awful because he couldn't win a championship with a "not particularly good" driver as his teammate.

[@jimrustle270]

@@danilonikolic4188 Webber was a decent driver and was beating him in 2010 until his injury. Then he sucked after the switch to Pirelli.

[@RhodiumMoviesMC]

@nikolic4188 Vettel has never won when starting lower than 3rd.

[@AdastraRecordings]

Renault unable to produce a PU on par with Mercedes. No big surprise there.

[@gizzardfan7349]

Merc lobbied the fia I think

[@husseinomar1981]

@@gizzardfan7349not just merc most teams won’t allow Renault to improve which they should for competition but F1 is a naughty political game and tbh they’re rubbish

[@junsengjs]

​@@husseinomar1981 Renault had years before even the 2022 regulations(and engine freeze happened) to fix their engine. RB dropped them in favor of Honda, who just had their most disastuous run with Mclaren in 2016-2018. RB saw more potential in Honda delivering a good engine than Renault putting out a good engine. Honda outdeveloped Renault in what? 5 years?

[@AdastraRecordings]

@@husseinomar1981 LOL

[@husseinomar1981]

@@junsengjs I know….coz they’re rubbish

[@miamiata7716]

I miss you great fuel efficiency of the early hybrid Mercedes in this video. The car used less fuel to provide the same power as other cars, that they could run 10-15kg less fuel which by itself is already a 0,2-0,5 sec a lap difference in the early dominant years with the split turbo and pre chamber ingnition technology

[@1973HenkY]

Don't forget they burnt engine oil as well...

[@tolulopeoluleye5302]

Looking back on the turbo-Hybrid years, it's spectacular people (especially one fan base in particular) forget the meaning of true dominance in F1

[@denithy]

No one has EVER dominated a season in this way.

[@samuelarth7845]

@@denithy Didnt mclaren take all but one win in 1988? what does 2023 differ so much from 1988?

[@garyambrosini1427]

​@samuelarth7845 In 1988, Mclaren had the two best drivers in the world, two of the best ever in Prost and Senna who fought to the penultimate race for the championship. There was a championship, last year Max could've won the constructors on his own. The dominance is all from one driver.

[@samuelarth7845]

@@garyambrosini1427 i guess max and red bull are just that much better

[@MohamedLamkhizni]

​​​@@garyambrosini1427you known if Mclaren have senna or Prost it be the same thing and also if Perez or any so call good driver challenge max for the title it be the same like 1988 so that mean Red bull and max was that much better i guess 😂

[@DJEVVO]

My favourite type of videos that you do! Love hearing about the technical side & what changed what and all the ins & outs just like this video! Would be great to see some of the engines and the differences properly, obviously not possible with todays engines but maybe from the mid 2010's, to get a picture of what manufacturers all do differently in the power units

[@thegametesterman]

What a great video! First one I’ve watched in a long time and my god how much better it is now. Very impressed. Will be sharing this to a lot of others!!!

[@KeenJT]

One of the better videos from this channel of late. Really enjoyed not seeing any f1 game graphics and a good topic covered.

[@pabsocs]

genuinely brilliant content, especially analysis

[@MrTomWaffles]

Imagine if RB had a solid PU during the dip after the Vettel years, they would have had a really impressive run of years

[@bluedanbob]

Danny Ric could have had a title or two for sure.

[@TheGreggstopher]

the 2018 redbull was insane, danny ric also might have stayed too if they were championship contending

[@MohamedLamkhizni]

​😂​​​​@@bluedanbobwell and max in the other car espeaclly 2017 and 2018 it be crazy war like Lewis and Nico rosberg and also could be bad to their good friendship and it could be if Ricciardo didnt leave at the end of 2018 so imagine prime Ricciardo and max as teamate drive the RB cars from 2021 to now espeaclly the RB19😢 but i can see Ricciardo realy title challenger in 2014 to 2016 maybe won one then 😮😊

[@Levelochef]

Would they though? Ferrari were Mercedes closest competitor and even then, not so close.

[@MohamedLamkhizni]

​​@@Levelochefyes but Red bull with not competitive PU compare to Mercedes and Ferrari was have them hard time and beat them somtimes and be close to them on pure pace imagine if Red bull with that creat aero and chassis and have Mercedes or Ferrari PU the are the one have Honda or their PU is strong it could have a seasons like 2021 alot before 2022 regulations of course not from 2014 to 2016 the Mercedes engine was monster so dominant maybe from 2017 to 2020 could be epic like 2021 realy shame but still 😢😮🎉

[@Ruylopez778]

Mercedes also had the advantage of the KERS system they continuously developed with McLaren (while others used an inferior Magnetti Marelli unit) and Sam Bird aid that from back in 2010 they were the only team supplying sim data to the FIA so could tailor the regulations to suit them.

[@slapmynutz]

I like this more technical review of team comparisons.

[@GardenParty.]

This was a surprisingly insightful explanation of the Red Bull - Mercedes relationship

[@lrdsn3082]

I mean the major difference is just what type of regulation change it is. The top team dropped the ball on the engine side when engines changed, and the top team dropped the ball on the aero side when aero regs changed.

[@kaustavkapur5532]

engine was never in their control. They were only an energy drinks company. Mercedes are a proper car company.

[@givemeabreak8784]

It's a big difference... Red Bull never dropped the ball , was the Renault engine.

[@Levelochef]

@@kaustavkapur5532but then Ferrari also dropped the ball - they could only get close to Mercedes with an illegal engine. Ferrari is also a car manufacturer

[@kaustavkapur5532]

@@Levelochef Yes, ferrari dropped the ball. That's exactly my point. Redbull never dropped the ball.

[@a84758]

@@kaustavkapur5532 You're seeing it completely wrong, Red Bull is purely the name of the team, and doesn't mean that you should see the team as an energy drinks company. It's a group of highly skilled professionals just under the name of Red Bull. Besides, road-going car engines have little technology that would carry over to an F1 PU for mercedes

[@WaelAli-sd8sw]

During the 2014 Russian GP when Mercedes won their first title, I said when their time comes to loose, they will do so from within like all great empires do. During 2021 they became fractured and this led them to missing big opportunists during that year, then they promoted Mike Elliot who didn't know what he was doing and know it took until the return of James Allison to fix those internal problems.

[@ashooaway]

I didn't know Manor was influential to the championship winning Mercedes thank you.

[@tonisiret5557]

A fantastically explained & produced video. This is why The Race is way ahead of other F1 KZbin channels 👏🏼👌🏼

[@grdixon83]

To be fair, the FIA ruined the hybrid rules, you couldn't change r modify power unit peaces in season until 2016, when it was clear just how far Honda where behind. Its the first time with new engine rules, that manufacturers couldn't in season develop.(V8's standardised in '08 after 2 years of allowed development)

[@liviuargeseanu388]

People forget the token system for engine development we had between 2014 and 2016 that made sure that who was in front stayed in front.

[@grdixon83]

@@liviuargeseanu388 Exactly, had Renault & Ferrari in 2014/15 been allowed to change PU parts, I believe they (mainly Ferrari) would have caught Mercedes sooner.

[@mineralwater6736]

@@grdixon83 and now we have the even worse with engine freezes and cost cap.

[@hectornecromancer5308]

@@mineralwater6736 cost cap is actually good. The other restrictions carried over from previous era that is the big problem

[@tHebUm18]

Really hope this season is marginally competitive--whether it's a resurgent Mercedes, McLaren continuing form, Ferrari fixing their tire wear, or Aston Martin coming in with another forward leap like last year.

[@Ampersand00]

We also need to factor in the significant hiring drive RB went on which including poaching several important Merc staff...

[@leroythompson8161]

Excellent explanation. Well done 👍🏾

[@francoisbertrand7612]

Wow! Great, deep yet concise analysis, well-delivered! 🔥🔥🔥🍻

[@riderzworld2488]

In those days RB drivers never cried like the way MB drivers doing now every weekend. Also in press conferences RB boys be it Max/Checco accept that their car is strong if they have an advantage ,unlike the then MB golden boy who kept on crying "We were struggling the whole weekend..the Ferrari is the best car,I gave it everything" , despite having the best package. Still remember the days when Vettel & Kimi giving weird looks at Lewis in press conferences when he kept crying every weekend that the Ferrari is the best .

[@nathanmadox3364]

In 2014 Mercedes made a half decent car and got the best engine on Earth supplied to them. The same year Red Bull made a great car but then got a dog engine Supply to them. Mercedes dominance is completely farcical and red bulls is always been legit

[@unfortunately_fortunate2000]

tbf after like the first few races of 2014 RedBull understood their biggest issues outside of the Renault engine being subpar and worked hard to resolve those short comings, culminating in a 2016 car that was a pretty regular contender for race wins, and, had the 2017 regulations been an evolution of what we'd seen from 2014 - onward I think it'd of been quite likely that they'd of been title contenders once again way earlier than 2021. if/when Mercedes actually understands all of the shortcomings and resolves the over-arching problem of their staff either jumping ship or straight up being poached off to other teams like McLaren and Ferrari, they'll be back to winning ways but given the current state of both their car and the seeming lack of staff retention, as well as their internal struggles, it may be quite a while before they get back to the front of the field with any regularity. Hamilton stated that one of the motivations for leaving was that one of the technical directors who had the same criticisms of the W14 had left for Ferrari iirc, and, it is no surprise that he has since signed for the team that has picked up all of the former Mercedes R&D people who he agreed with the most since 2022. part of their performance slump seems to be that they are still trying to understand their new car, the rest seems to be internal strife and I don't see enough people talking about the clear signs that in house, Merc is struggling. not only are they losing people but the disagreements about how to develop the car and resolve their current issues is doing more than holding them back, it is bleeding important personnel, it isn't just going to be Lewis that leaves, I wouldn't be surprised if he brings a lot of the people responsible for his success with him to Ferrari & even Bono has been eluding to that it is more than likely that he too will be at Ferrari with Lewis as well. for all of their woes and weird political stunts, RedBull did not have these same issues nor did they have them to the extent Mercedes currently does, if they can't retain people they aren't going to be super competitive, simple as that.

[@Dan-wf5lr]

Yooooo the script on this one 🔥

[@Picar70]

Red Bull always feels like they are steadily progressing every year while Mercedes seems to lose themselves when they are not dominant.

[@lkay44]

Ben Anderson been busy in the VO booth at The Race HQ!

[@Ehm593]

And we are seeing that the 24 Merc is back to porpoising, something Mercedes clearly doesn’t understand yet. When one looks at the might of Mercedes in terms of their Corporate backup, it wouldn’t surprise me if there is still work going on at corporate that benefits the F1 team - outside of the budget cap. The same applies at Ferrari with their WEC car project. Be interested to know if anyone has any info there.

[@matt_v_photo]

Hearing Matt‘s voice talking about F1 just feels right 😌

[@glenrobinson10]

Red Bull understood the regulations, they just had an underwhelming PU & that set them back. Mercedes seemingly haven't got a clue how to work these cars at the top level.

[@dpjohnjones432]

That would be a reach. They seemed to have a decent grasp until the tapered floor restrictions came into play hurting their long wheel base design. But if you’re talking about the ground effect era only then yes you’d be right.

[@rtimofei1]

Great piece of content!

[@laughsandwich3842]

so early it feels criminal

[@Avto28]

Love how the race make it sound like regulatory changes hurting RBR are no big deal but that floor change that hurt Mercedes, that was diabolical scheme agains Toto and Lewis. No mention of course of the whole oil burning "loop-hole" that Mercedes were allowed to get away with for 3 and even 4 years, during the early period of Turbo-hybrids. One of the main "advantages" they had in turn allowing to concentrate on the chassis side of things.

[@asimb0mb]

Mercedes dominance from 2014-2020 was mostly thanks to its amazing PU, while Red Bull dominance from 2022 onwards is mostly thanks to its chassis dominance.

[@RC30Kay]

Fascinating... love the new format.

[@emsan54]

The most important thing in F1 is the aero departament, not the engine. When you have Adrian Newey as the head of aero developement in those ground-effect times which he knows them so well, you are simply the best team on grid by miles. Mercedes simply couldn't do the job as good as Newey and this resulted in a gap over 1s/lap on every circuit between the first and the second team. (Go check F1 TechTalk where this is proved). And to maximize this, Max simply loves to drive this kind of car, while Checo hates it. Everything more than this is bullshit and is spitted for those BTS fans to really believe RB and Max are some demigods. Ferrari/Schumi, Renault/Alonso, RB/Vettel, Mercedes/Hamilton...they have all done it before. It is called team/car/driver best possible combination. It's as old as F1 itself.

[@stevenst6337]

My theory is that the Mercedes engine was so powerful at the time that they could essentially make the highest downforce concept possibly without a care in the world for drag resistance. W11 for example, was an absolute downforce monster, but had pretty average top speed and even towards the lower of the field that year. The 50+ HP advantage they had would make up for any draggy car concept. Where now their ideas and philosophies probably don’t work without that 50+hp advantage.

[@nytarT1]

In 2014 Merc would run with low downforce setups to confuse the teams into thinking the advantage was purely down to the engine. In 2020 they just ran the fastest setup in terms of lap time for quali and the race. Normally that involves more aero but it would hamper them in overtaking. They probably couldve run less draggy but given they were consistently aat the front running a setup geared for overtakes didnt make much sense.

[@stevenst6337]

@@nytarT1 yeah and in previous era track position was key as well so even in the car out front had not the best top speed, you still had very very slim chances of passing and it had o be done in 1-2 laps before the car/tyres overheat.

[@patepulkkinenvtec2403]

The incompetence of Renault is truly sickening...

[@paddytopping5036]

The best competitive seasons have been just before rule changes or as soon as they’ve introduced new rules, never in between, either stick to one or the other properly

[@19megamustaine85]

2011,2013 ?

[@-KD77-]

This was a great video Kudos 👏

[@rowanmelville1310]

I think we can all agree that floor reg change against merc was nice for competition but it was also an absolute hit job on them from the FIA

[@emilekaram6094]

About 2016, the 2nd track where Mercedes wasn't the quickest like Monaco is Singapore surely.

[@Bahamuttiamat]

The rb19 also lost in singapore? What does that say about their chassis? Singapore is a capricious circuit.

[@emilekaram6094]

@@Bahamuttiamat ??

[@Bahamuttiamat]

@@emilekaram6094 Remind me again who won singapore 2016? The team and drivers name escapes me.

[@emilekaram6094]

@@Bahamuttiamat Remember that all race it was close and Ricciardo needed half a lap more to pass Rosberg. If it was Max instead making a quicker charge, RB would've won.

[@sithembisostamper7318]

Great analysis

[@H0lyFr0ggy]

Its kinda paradox - new regulation is supposed to give everyone a chance, but those who screw up take years to catch up. By the time they catch up it's already time to plan for new regulations...

[@Aefweard]

That’s why the lower teams get more cfd and wind tunnel time, so that they can catch up to the higher teams.

[@H0lyFr0ggy]

@@Aefweard Yeah but it's clearly not enough

[@hunter_t18]

@@Aefweardyes but are they? Sure the overall delta is lower but how much closer is Alfa Romeo (or whatever they are now) to beating any of the top teams than they were at the start of the regs? None. Only thing limiting cfd/wind tunnel has actually done is make the 2nd-4th place teams unable to catch Red Bull. Look how much progress Mclaren made this year. What if they had as much time as Williams? Could they have won multiple races? Idk but it’s stands to reason they would have had a better car than they did which won a sprint and was highly competitive in spots later in the year.

[@brandonhunkin3783]

@@hunter_t18the answer may lie with variable caps. If the cost cap for next season is based on your performance from last season as well as the are testing and not just set numbers but based on point totals then you may be able to achieve some level of parity.

[@n8pls543]

@@hunter_t18 Shouldn't Mclaren be proof instead that within these regs a team can go from near the back of the grid _to near the front_ if they just you know... make a good car? Mclaren could very easily have won races in the second half of the season if Verstappen had ever made a big enough mistake or suffered a mechanical problem, which is evidenced enough by how they won a sprint, but if Red Bull wasn't being limited by the cost cap and development restrictions, they could have brought many more upgrades, rather than less than other teams.

[@John14710]

I definitely understood all of that

[@CamerasandTech]

Eagerly awaiting Andretti video…

[@marion817]

This video forgets to mention that Merc was allowed to secretly test the Pirelli tyres - as if their PU advantage wasn’t enough. Also, they were allowed to keep an illegal car in 2020 with its DAS.

[@parmvirvirk8959]

Mercedes needs to sort themselves out aero wise, want to see a decent season for 2024. McLaren and Ferrari will be up there too.

[@MuralidharAreti]

Also to point out, only two people on the grid had PhDs in ground effects. Adrian Newley and Dan Fallows who went to Aston Martin from Red Bull

[@CYMotorsport]

Newey does not have a PhD. His undergraduate degree was in aeronautical engineering in fact. Though surely that was to better understand aerodynamics. His first did focus on ground effects but that’s not too dissimilar from others. Or atleast differentiating. Probably a lot more powerful to just simply say he designed the FW14B, march 85C, MP4/13, and RB3-9 haha

[@MohamedLamkhizni]

​@@CYMotorsportor he have wise brain than anyone elso on making good cars 😂😭🤣

[@FreeSpeechAbsolutist7]

@@CYMotorsportunrelated question, but why don’t you make videos anymore? I loved your videos, mate

[@Eugene-r1n]

FOM straight out told Andretti that they will not be competitive with Renault engines regardless of what they do.

[@karlosdelacruz3803]

Can't wait to see these new cars!!!! Mercedes and Ferrari especially.

[@taz9609]

Mercedes, or anyone else for that matter, were never a match for Redbull's aerodynamic prowess!

[@joelestadella1983]

It's very clear what happens to Merc when they don't have an unfair advantage

[@cmannion14]

I didn't understand most of that. And yet, I enjoyed it .

[@JK-mo2ov]

The crazy Mercedes power unit they used at specific races in 2021 was absolutely insane. Probably the best F1 ever built.

[@jasperpoon7813]

The next shake up will be at the next big rule change (2026) - unless a major singular rule change comes in before then (e.g. 2005 tyre change ban)

[@dylanburston7453]

There already was one in TD039. Ferrari won/should have won and went toe to toe with RB at all but 2 races in 2022 before Spa. Then TD039 was introduced and RB became dominant, and then the ride height increases for 2023 just emphasised the issue.

[@MohamedLamkhizni]

​@@dylanburston7453thanks Mercedes for that 😂

[@dylanburston7453]

​@@MohamedLamkhizni If theirs a negative mid season rule change, their is a 95% chance its come from Mercedes

[@husseinomar1981]

Don’t expect anything special usual suspects near the front with early teething problems for red bull as they get used to their own engines. Mercs will be back in force as red bull are now on their turf regarding manufacturing both the PU and chassis. Keep ur eye on McLaren

[@MohamedLamkhizni]

​@@dylanburston7453and what was the other 5% ?😮

[@OwnedByBaba]

imagine if renault a actually built a good engine over the early v6 hybrid, ferrari, RB and Mercedes battling for both championships

[@MASTAdondaMASTADON]

Im a new f1 fan simce 2020 thanks for this video explanation

[@АлексейКастевич]

Say it simple: Mercedes understood 2014 rules better than Red Bull, and now vice versa.

[@khasmir666]

It's not called turbo jet ignition, it's turbulent jet ignition or pre-chamber jet combustion

[@dustinabigan2776]

Mercedes had the edge in the turbo hybrid era because they had aerodynamics and engines on their side while Red Bull had aerodynamics but a weaker engine. Then it made for a difficult title fight in 2021 when Red Bull's engine finally reached the best it can be when Honda threw all it can at making the engines better. Then 2022 came around when Red Bull won in aero while Merc failed, but the engines are already evenly (more or less) matched. So it basically boils down into an aero-related battle that Merc lost in 2022 and 2023 because it struggled to get a car concept working properly. Goes to show that just having either a good engine or good aero philosophy will not give you an overall good car. You need both, especially when push to shove during a close title battle.

[@jazzrockr]

Mercedes also negotiated those regulations in returning to F1 as a works team.

[@MohamedLamkhizni]

And even that in 2021 Honda engine still not on Mercedes level we have same tracks like Monza that year Mclaren with Mercedes PU red bull have hard time against them in power track before 2022 red bull weakness is not not good on straight line speed only in 2022 was so strong on it and in 2023 Ferrari was faster than red bull without DRS so only their strong DRS help them in 2023 so if any team want to beat red bull or close to it have Strong DRS or coying theirs and pretty sure will have many Cars in 2024 look exactly like Red bull especlly the RB19 Horner and Newey both said it lets see what the RB20 will be like i😮🎉

[@classicsportclassictiyl8547]

@@MohamedLamkhizni that mainly was because of the cars the W-dozen (12) being a low raker would be better for Monza compared to the RB16B being a high raker and more draggy

[@KapitanPisoar1]

Well having access to the new specifications before everybody else also helps…

[@Redlingstein]

Yes Merc had years extra…

[@Carfreaks2704]

If redbull had the engine of the merc during mercs dominant period there would not be a merc dominant period

[@MohamedLamkhizni]

Or have Ferrari engine hell even have Honda from 2014 and start work on it and wait two or three years and start challenge for the title and win it so maybe from 2017 they have title contender car with Honda so imagine 2017 and 2018 for not only Mercedes vs Ferrari but three way battle for the title and three to four drivers fight for the WDC 😢😮🎉

[@NigelBunt]

I have had to take a few years away after a lifetime watching f1 after what happened in that final race, I feel like coming back this year. Looking forwards to it again now.

[@shuntacheong6836]

Red bull's struggles were due to having an enormous engine deficit (anyone with a merc pu were ridiculously good despite incredibly poor aerodynamic philosophies), Mercedes have spent too long with the largest budgets (30-40% more than red bull) and a much more powerful engine.

[@jayb8941]

What horse shit 😂

[@ThesocialmuteHD]

RB and Ferrari had bigger budgets what are you on?

[@MohamedLamkhizni]

​@@jayb8941crying for over two years and counting No Mickey No is not right 🤣😭😭🤣

[@Jay-Bee_NUFC]

When the DRS of the RB19 opened, so did my jaw😂

[@xnotasweatx]

Entropy is the perfect way to describe this

[@km6832]

Adrian newey has experience with ground effect car, id wager a lot of the designers dont

[@ananthu8534]

Ok! So are you telling Mercedes Benz engineers are dumbb idiiotss ?

[@brian7233]

I believe between 2016 - 2019 4 years in total Mercedes spent more than 100 million more than Red Bull.

[@eddieredmann3]

I have often heard that you can't build a successful F1 car by committee, but from everything that I've seen and heard about Mercedes in their glory years, that simply isn't true. It seems that building a car by committee was exactly what Mercedes did for a decade leading into the 2021 cost cap. The biggest issue that I see facing Mercedes is that the cost cap has hit them the hardest. Rather than having one emperor (like, say, an Adrian Newey) and his retinue, Mercedes seems to have a very segmented, collaborative, and bottom-up design approach. The upside is that can create very stable, consistent success like we saw for 7 years. The issue is that that approach is very money and manpower intensive. And with the cost cap, they had to let a bunch of their top technical staff go. And now they can't take that approach, so they're trying to figure out who their Adrian Newey is.

[@mohammedaneeskhan790]

The Mercedes advantage was so big that any combination of drivers from junior formulas would have won in those cars. Mercedes had a budget of £70 million bigger than any other team. It had the best part of 100hp more than anyone other engine. It had a five year head start on the other engine manufactures. It was a remarkable dominance that will never be seen again. Mercedes as confirmed by Rosberg, would qualify over 1 second ahead of rivals with the engine turned down!

[@willyoung6858]

The first thing you said is completely theoretical and as proven by checo, a very experienced driver against max, a crap driver can make a dominant car look relatively mediocre. Mercedes did not have 70 million more than any other team, in most seasons Ferrari was said to spend more and red bull relatively equal. The engine power figure may be correct, but you have completely misinterpreted what was said in this video”Mercedes was virtually five years ahead in tech”does not mean they literally had a five year head start. Renault and Mercedes were bosh pushing for the new hybrid regs, and in actual fact the ICE was only decided to be a v6 quite late. Mercedes had initially built a 4 cylinder engine, so that was completely not the case.

[@bigmini2870]

Almost everything you said was incorrect which is crazy considering the literal video you're commenting on explained everything. At least watch the video before shitting out of your mouth

[@MuhammadNiz007]

That is BS. They actually had less budget compared to Renault for the 2014 regulation thanks to them spending all there money on initial investment of V4 introduction which was later over turned in favor V6 and the board didn't give them any extra allowance either

[@DenUitvreter]

The FIA created Mercedes dominance was so great that Rosberg could have been an 8 time WDC when it had hired Kovalainen rather than Hamilton from the might McLaren team.

[@bigmini2870]

@@DenUitvreter Retarded reply

[@hamza-chaudhry]

This was timely

[@joshaltea]

I think Hamilton would agree with this video

[@tonka880]

Is it me or did this video already come out? I feel like I remember the video's title and it's not the first time it's happened.

[@bidzej86]

Matrix glitch

[@P4P5]

Mercedes started developing Hybrid engine years before others did. They had a huge advantage from the get go.

[@truehunger108]

You did hear that Mercedes scrapped the whole project mid development, and started from scratch. They restarted so late that they barely got the engines out to their customers before preseason. Infact, they themselves admitted that they weren't expecting to be competitive let alone so dominant.

[@rossrreyes]

So Mercedes built a ‘Power Unit’ while Renault still built an ‘Engine’ with add-on parts

[@johnpatricklim4509]

Lucky for Red Bull that Franz Tost kept faith with Honda that enable them to go back into their winning ways....

[@samuellang9761]

Mercedes knew about the engine change way before everybody else too

[@tonyb9735]

How so?

[@nmdc93]

Or merc is just mid when they can't throw infinite money at something

[@Adwnpinoy310]

Lewis just answered your final question. He voted with his feet.

[@MsZeeZed]

08:35 - and you missed the point AGAIN! When the corners were cut from the floor, Mercedes’ math prediction said the high rake cars would suffer *more*, so it would be ok for them. BUT Red Bull maximised their ability to seal their higher narrower floor with vortices generation along the sides, something that Mercedes were slow to adopt. As they tried to push for the ultimate lap-times in testing that year as they famously lost rear stability in fast corners, spinning both cars on their fastest laps. Once they caught up with this it was apparent that the larger underfloor volume, created by jacking up the rear axel of the Red Bull even more, created a more effective underfloor volume than Mercedes’ flat floor could, but you had to be better at creating the vortices to use that. Adrian Newey continued the concept into full ground-effect cars, where a higher rake had let him think about that volume in full 3D and not just chase the ride-height x floor area. The subtle horizontal axis curves of the Red Bull underfloor combined with knowledge of pre active-suspension stability ideas, from 1980s ground-effect cars, gave Red Bull more suck (aero-grip) over a wider ride-height range, meaning you could set-up that car for the specific track without losing performance and win a huge number of races. Red Bull never really say what they do to win except that nothing is sacred on their cars. Adrian Newey wrote a famous book about how a specific suspension layout was most optimal for F1 in 2010. When ground-effect came back in the 2020s he had no ego about personally reversing that concept to get the best car set-up. Mercedes’ predictions of rule-set changes always seem to (recently) miss a wrinkle, that Red Bull fully exploit, because there are some car fundamentals Mercedes never want to change, like wheelbase or attack angle. That may make other areas downstream easier to optimise (like suspension geometry), but they box-off Mercedes from finding the edges in performance, particularly one’s that are consistent track-to-track. That’s the current pattern they need to break, probably with a different design philosophy. We wait to see if 2024 brings that major change.

[@MsZeeZed]

I’ll be clear this is an excellent piece explaining Red Bull’s car concept more concisely than I did when I paused to write the above. Other than straying into Mercedes’ PR for 2021 regs, which prompted me to stop & comment. Is it consistently thinking that they were “done dirty” in 2021, rather than fully recognise their own shortcomings that’s led Mercedes to their current car develoment calamities?

[@darrenjohn8524]

​@@MsZeeZedThe revisionist history about 2021 is hilarious by the Race and other pundits 🤣. Toto was just even grinning like a cheersire cat in the last press conferences before 2020 season ended when asked about it.

[@cassesque]

In hindsight I think that final sentence should be followed by an It's Always Sunny title card. The Gang Don't Catch Up With Red Bull

[@MuhammadImHardBruceLee]

The Race: Too far gone? Hamilton: Yep.

[@aoife1122]

Why??? Because Wolff and his buddy Ratcliffe are more interested in bagging £75m in dividends rather than getting their house in order and focus on building a better car. The shit that happens when the "finance guys" are running the shop. Wouldn't be surprised if Mercedes (the carmaker, that is) will call it quits since they no longer have a controlling majority and the power to right the ship. And the Bahrainis would love nothing better than having their outfit being the official Mercedes works team again. Imagine Toto and Jimmy as engine customers with Ineos F1. 🤣🤣🤣 (The idiocy of Mercedes F1 engineering talent being sent to staff Ratcliffe's pet project "America's Cup" just boggles the mind, Niki must be rotating in his grave.)

[@PlaySA]

I like how this so-called 'bad' year is actually being the second best team.

[@aslamnurfikri7640]

Second best but far behind the best team is a bad year

[@MohamedLamkhizni]

​​@@aslamnurfikri7640but they not far behind from the best team only far behind from Max look the others was close or beat perez many times all the season so evry says others teams should close the gap to Red bull and beat them but they already did but Red bull have Machine like driver on it so imagine the RB19 last drive by let say Perez and stroll and max was in Aston martin no one will says the RB19 is one of the most dominant f1 cars ever yes checo can win the title with it and it be he be just beat who is behind him like how he finish ahead of lewis my theory is the Red bull in 2023 was not that ahead of anyone by big gap like the Mercedes was becouse the grid now is so close compare to then in my opinion and have nice evning 😮😊😢😅👍😉🎉

[@tomnadal2416]

Exactly bro. I’ve had a gut full of the British media and sky personalities trying to sell the merc as a “bad” car to excuse their British drivers

[@nokia5779]

In light of recent announcements that LH is going to be joining Ferrari, looks like Mercedes is still struggling.. it's a sinking ship and their main man is jumping ship already. It's a vote of no confidence from the 7 times WDC.

[@jamgood96]

great video