Why Most Churches Don't Do Hard Discipleship

Рет қаралды 1,607

Күн бұрын

Mark 5 tells the story of a Gerasene Demoniac, possessed by many unclean spirits, who was eventually domesticated by the power of Christ Jesus. Today, many who come into our churches similarly need exorcism and domestication. Yet very few churches find themselves equipped to do this necessary work. Why? Even those with deliverance ministries generally lack the level of engagement and commitment necessary for significant change to be seen.
This is just a few minutes of me reflecting on these questions that actually impact all of our churches. There is a reason why churches are drawn to cheap grace and surface level engagement. It reveals a great lack that I fear can be found in most churches of all denominations.

Пікірлер: 24

@PastorPete81 3 ай бұрын

After 40+ years in recovery, I've experienced this kind of hard work to build real, honest and intentional community. Possible - Yes!

@joer5627 3 ай бұрын

I had several sponsors over the years. I am so thankful for the one who laid out the plan of recovery and stated clearly as to what was expected on my part. He led me out of the ditch of addiction. This world needs an aggressive program of transformational renewal. The church has to be the catalyst for this renewal.

@boooshes 3 ай бұрын

Thank you for this word. It is very hard work to help the suffering. Seldom will a man lay down his life for even a good person...but aren't we called to do those things that cannot be accomplished without the Holy Spirit.

@jabeavers 3 ай бұрын

If the GMC gets serious about accountability meetings, the attendance of many churches (I would say, especially the big churches) will go down. If we are serious about this, we need to be prepared for numbers to get worse before they get better.

@joer5627 3 ай бұрын

I understand what you are saying but attempting to lower the bar to such a level that no change, no repentance is needed is watered down Christianity.

@jabeavers 3 ай бұрын

@@joer5627 I'm not advocating for NOT having accountability/class meetings. I'm saying that I hope the GMC is willing to endure the loss of numbers if it implements those meetings, and that it needs to be prepared to endure it.

@michaeltyndall6815 5 күн бұрын

Excellent!

@BrentLeVasseur 3 ай бұрын

I have trouble with the KJV, because no one speaks old english anymore. It’s not ‘plain speaking’ as the name of this channel suggests. It’s like reading Shakespeare.

@plainspokenpod 3 ай бұрын

KJV isn't in Old English. It is Early Modern English. I explain why it is a valid and useful translation in yesterday's live stream. I'm not a KJV-onlyist, but I am pretty strident in my desires to retain the KJV as one of many valid options for believers. I have found that it is much more faithful to the original Hebrew and Greek than many common English translations today. KJV speaks very plainly for those with ears to hear.

@cuatro336 2 ай бұрын

And it's beautiful

@BrentLeVasseur 3 ай бұрын

What you are addressing here is not a discipleship issue but a deliverance issue, which is what you illustrated with your reference to the demon possessed man. The Church doesn’t do deliverance, which is the casting out of demons, and the root cause for these generational (familiar unclean spirits that follow families), and other issues of ‘mental illnesses’ that have demonic origins.

@plainspokenpod 3 ай бұрын

To bifurcate deliverance from discipleship is a big problem. These two are not divisible, but are part and parcel with one another. Daily disciplines are holy warfare. Ephesians 6 is pretty clear about this stuff.

@BrentLeVasseur 3 ай бұрын

@@plainspokenpod You can’t disciple someone who is demon possessed because its the demon in control of that person. Where discipleship does come into play is where you train born again believers to fight spiritual battles and cast out demons. Most Christians and pastors for that matter look at church as a social club, and completely forget that we are essentially soldiers on the battlefield for Christ with bullseyes on our backs for demonic attacks. I recommend you check out They Shal Expel Demons by Derek Prince and Pigs in A Parlor by Frank and Ida May Hammond for basic primers on casting out demons. Until you and or those who will be doing the discipleship know and have first hand experience in spiritual warfare, that discipleship will not be effective. You essentially need battle hardened ‘vets’ who have seen combat and won to be doing that discipleship.

@plainspokenpod 3 ай бұрын

@@BrentLeVasseur Why are you assuming I and others who lead discipleship in my churches are unfamiliar with spiritual warfare? I'm 100% on board with spiritual warfare. I notice that folks who get too concerned about deliverance often fail to do much serious sanctification work. Like all things, the life of faith requires a balance. Indeed, deliverance is especially pertinent on the front end. To imagine that it isn't as relevant or needed midway through the discipleship journey is, I believe, not right. I have seen how the evil one works. He doesn't just run away when one comes to Jesus. We need that shield to guard against the flaming darts of the evil one. We need healing balm when we fail to adequately defend. We need repentance when we are defeated for a time.

@BrentLeVasseur 3 ай бұрын

@@plainspokenpod It sounds like you do, but many don’t and most in the Methodist church surely don’t. Balance as you say is the issue here, and the pendulum has swung away from being soldiers to being entertained in a social setting (I’m speaking in a broad general sense here and not about you specifically as I don’t know you). I think you are one of the good ones who understands and gets it, and that is good. But many don’t. You need to become like a special forces soldier and act as a force multiplier by teaching deliverance and discipling to those who don’t know spiritual warfare but need to know it, and that way the church is equipped to handle demonized people, which if you watch the news and look around is becoming very commonplace today.