Why Myst STILL needs another remake - Episode 1: The Current Vision

[@trapez77]

Is part 2 still coming?

[@shadyparadox]

Yes. Believe it or not, I hate my slow production rate more than anyone. But this is a complicated topic that involves multiple philosophies that pertain to the basic mechanics of the universe, and I also want to make sure all the concepts are presented as clearly as possible with a smooth flow between them. On top of that, this might be the only opportunity I have at making any serious case for correcting the trajectory of what Myst has become, so I need to make sure no stone is left unturned. There are millions of videos out there that are edited far more professionally than mine, so I'm grateful that anyone bothers to watch what I spit out. But in a funny way, my style is also oddly difficult to produce, since I'm trying to create a distinct viewing experience with footage and music from various games that add to the experience but don't distract from the points I'm making. Anyway, long story short, three months after the release of Episode 1, I'm still writing the script for Episode 2, which means production hasn't even started yet. That's a scary proposition, so all I can say is that I want to get it out some time in 2024. I already had other video projects I wanted to make that I've now set aside because this is more important, and the episode that directly explains the alternate philosophy is the most critical in the series. So I'm treating this as the most important video I've ever made. I really wish I could get it out quickly, but I also want to get it right. So I appreciate your patience as I continue to work on it. Truthfully, I actually first started drafting out this series in late 2022, so... I guess it is what it is.

[@Panzer_the_Merganser]

@@shadyparadoxTake your time, man. I’ve enjoyed your channel for quite some time now and appreciate the depth and detail of your videos. Happily take quality over quantity. Plus, I’m definitely one of those “Myst needs more trees” people so glad you brought that up and it caught the eye of Cyan.

[@dentReviews]

@@shadyparadox i agree with you and am also interested in part 2. i wanted to make a similar video about riven 2024, which honestly is light years closer to "capturing the same feeling" as the original than any myst remake has been. However, there are still changes i disagree with and I personally still prefer the original despite the general world of riven being a phenomenal recreation in 3d. maybe i'm just a purist, but i just never seem to see eye to eye with any remakes and decisions made, and they seem so obviously like bad decisions it amazes me they are always made. Nonetheless, i do think riven stands out as possibly the best remake i've seen barring a few quibbles that may have been necessary...

[@agahnim0196]

There's another angle that goes beyond Realism VS Magic, and it's the vision i adhere to... Consistency. You see, i like the new version of Myst the best, but i like the old FMVs better, because i like to think of all the Myst games as being part of the same multiverse, with the same mythos and the same rules. FMVs serve that purpose, since we see Atrus literally age with us and it feels like we really see the same person at different times and different places. The problem i have with old Myst, is that from all of the series games, it's the one that feels the less like it's part of that same universe. Even Uru feels more like that world than OG Myst... specifically because of that alternate vision, which goes against the lore from the universe, especially what's in the Books and Uru. Before anyone say i'm too young to know what Myst is really about... i'm 37 and my first game in the series was OG Myst, so i've seen it all grow up, but if Cyan makes more remakes, i'm happy that they try to make them fit all together under a larger cohesive vision rather than have the first chapter feel so out of touch with the rest. My ultimate dream would be to have a supreme remake called "Ages of Myst", which encapsulates all the Ages from every game under a same creative vision and then, weave the story from the whole saga seamlessly between them in one big adventure.... and as a Post-game, the ability to travel to all the Ages from each game freely from your own Relto Age. But, yeah... that won't happen :D

[@shadyparadox]

"Consistency" is a good word for describing the exact opposite of the original Myst, the word chosen by Rand being "eclectic". My argument is that if Myst is going to be given half a dozen remakes, why can't we get at least one where we see the original vision without all the technical limitations? Besides, Myst is what begat all the later games and books and stuff, not the other way around. The new direction was influenced by Riven and people who came after, who now all put the cart before the horse. This was already set as my opening argument in the next episode, so I guess I just spoiled it a little bit.

[@agahnim0196]

@@shadyparadox To be clear, i'm not saying that you're wrong for wanting a remake more akin to the original version, but without technical limitation. All i'm saying is that there's more to the question than Realism VS Magic. I don't think Cyan is trying to remove magic from their work, i mean, there are Books that teleports you through different worlds.... and i, for one, definitely don't want or crave "Realism" in games or fiction, realism is boring, like you said, if i want realism, i'll go play outside. What i want, and what i think Cyan wants is for all their work to follow the same rules, regardless of if it's magic or not and feel like it's part of a sole multiverse. When they made Myst, there were, of course, technical limitations, but the lore of their universe was not yet fully developed and they had no idea how it would develop. Now that they have the bigger picture, they want to make it more homogenous. All that being said it would be cool if they made a traditional version or mode that reflects more the original, then it only becomes a question of budget. Cyan is a small indie team, without the huge budget of AAA games, and their games don't sell like they use to, so if they want to stay alive, they probably, and unfortunately can't afford to make 2 versions of the same game to please everyone. They have to chose the one they believe is the best according to their current vision.... and it's still Rand's vision, it's not like if it was developed by another studio and that the original devs had nothing to do with it.

[@HeathJinkins]

This really opened my eyes. I remember playing Myst VR and enjoying it a TON, but after a few days I thought back on it and couldn't hep but feel something was missing from the original; this video completely solidified that feeling. I seriously can't wait for the next episode! Thanks Shady

[@joshuaoehler5796]

So you're saying this video ruined your enjoyment of a video game you previously loved . . . . great. I'm sure @shadyparadox is happy about that. I'm glad I stopped watching a few minutes in.

[@HeathJinkins]

@@joshuaoehler5796 not my point at all. I've replayed Myst 2021 many times and have enjoyed every playthrough - playing in VR with randomized puzzles has revitalized Myst in a way I didn't expect. Shady is simply providing a secondary point of view on why a lot of people weren't as thrilled with the remake as they expected.

[@fahrmboy]

The most compelling stories and works of art have dark corners, mysterious, unreachable terrain, and gaps in the story; the whole picture isn't available, and this leaves much to the user's imagination. Entertainment these days is so focused on illuminating the entire universe with back story and filling in the map that the magic and mystery is often compromised. Honestly, I think technical limitations can and have inadvertently enhanced the sense of surreality.

[@matthewwilliams3827]

Yeah totally agreed. That’s why I’ve always loved point and click adventure games. There’s always that element of mystery when you can’t explore everywhere or don’t know what’s going on or why you’re there, or even who you are playing as.

[@rgerber]

they should make a MYST realtime that looks just 99.99% like the original renders. It has that realistic/surreal imagery that roots in reality but always looks slightly off. I.e. The water doesnt quiet look like water but more like a metallic, mirrored surface...

[@francoisleveille409]

Something is missing in your understanding of the visions of Myst. In French we say "Féérique" which means enchanting or magical. Realism increased but all with the objective of upholding the enchanting and magical effect. If realism increases that effect then they put it in the new versions. They didn't put in anything which would weaken it. Added edit : I can see in the FMVs and what replaces them in the 2021 version these were made as good as technology allowed back in 1993. However they were replaced with something that clearly isn't the best technology allowed in 2021.

[@tjsase]

Achenar's mouth video on Channelwood is a prime example of why I'd prefer real actors, even if the performance is cheesy or odd, it's full of life, expression, and detail.

[@shadyparadox]

Brad Dourif will always be better than AI, even AI Brad Dourif.

[@jeanjacqueslundi3502]

Don't even mention it..........just the though we are finally getting a remake of my fav Myst game by far......with Richard Vander Wende back in the team!.............and then to hear they are not gonna use live action acting, or even re-using John Keston's performance...............haas me dead :(

[@tjsase]

@@jeanjacqueslundi3502 yeah, but it seems like they're doing their best to improve the quality of their CG characters, and it's the only way to future-proof the game

[@jeanjacqueslundi3502]

@@tjsase If it comes at the cost of the best character/performance in the whole series........why can't they just use the original recording from John Keston and put it on the new game? Even if they lost the recording, you can still edit what is in the retail version. It's not like he has scenes in several places.....it's just the cage dialogue.

[@tjsase]

@@jeanjacqueslundi3502 To do that would look very out of place compared to remaking the characters. In VR, or even on desktop, it would be distractedly obvious that you're viewing a low quality recording, awkwardly placed into the photo-real environment.

[@raeraeraeth]

The original Myst is the way it is partly because they didn't know what they are doing, and I think that's why I like the original realMyst the best of all the 3D remakes. It is true to the original Myst, and adds a whole new layer of not-knowing-what-they-are-doing as they get to grips with a 3D engine.

[@doltBmB]

realmyst ruins several puzzles by making things plainly visible that were supposed to be hard to see

[@Mike14264]

I like to say it looks like Myst if it was made in GoldSource.

[@Mike14264]

​@@doltBmB honestly, I hardly see that as an issue, and instead as a good compromise for the fact we have so much more freedom of movement, instead of properly tailored camera shots that direct us to what we're supposed to see.

[@doltBmB]

@@Mike14264 not just camera angles but also the lighting, there is no complete darkness to obscure things like in stoneship, it's just bad, the level would have to be redesigned for free movement but it wasn't.

[@Mike14264]

@@doltBmB and how would you redesign it to allow for a similar experience that doesn't feel frustrating? Well, more frustrating than what was originally intended, if it was truly that hard to see in the original game.

[@dubio77]

I always get excited whenever I see a new SP video - always so well done, SP presentation style is so eloquent and erudite.

[@davidpage8580]

Thanks Shady. Some really great points here. I appreciate the side-by-side walkthroughs of different versions in near perfect synchronicity. That must have been challenging to orchestrate

[@deemster4249]

Imagine being able to walk through the original Myst slides… but in real-time. I love that rendered look man. I’d both want a remake like that and a re-release of the original that works exactly like the original Mac version. The treatment they gave Cosmic Osmo on Steam.

[@meiklman]

I would love to get the original 3D models. The 3D worlds that were created in 1993 just to take the still shots…It‘s such a shame that we never got to explore those worlds in real-time.

[@junebug9320]

I replay the games pretty frequently (Myst and Exile are on a yearly rotation, and Riven gets played every few years because I don't want to ever memorize the puzzles) and sometimes when I'm playing through the full series again I skip myst in favor of your RealMyst walkthrough from years ago. I watched along when you were first putting that out, and it's always a treat rewatching your stuff and seeing your content about Myst evolve and change over time.

[@trapez77]

Rand has said in an interview that he is still able to go into the original version of myst and tweak things so I hope he does something with that

[@davidmonroe6930]

Yep, I absolutely get what you're saying. This otherworldly feeling that seeped through the screenshots is what made me try the original Myst in the first place when I wasn't even aware how culturally significant it was, and in later games it just... Wasn't there. Looking forward to you putting more of it into words!

[@doltBmB]

I actually find the newer graphics to be less realistic looking, there is something about the soft painterly lighting of unreal engine that just doesn't really capture how real light and materials work, it looks like clay or dough. And despite the primitive models and textures and the low resolution of the original images, the way they are lit gives a sense of something real and tangible on the other side of the camera, a sense that these objects are solid. And it's when you combine that solid realism with the slightly off-kilter, somewhat alien way that things tend to work, you get something hyper-real, something beyond ordinary reality. None of the remakes except for masterpiece edition have captured that feeling.

[@Musikur]

Yes, I agree, I had the same complaint with Obduction. I don't know that they completely mastered the lighting in Unreal (because it can perform amazing lighting in some tech demos I've seen), and it leads to the rather flat textures at times. In Obduction, I turned down the brightness and turned up the contrast until the shadows were much darker, and this improved things a lot (albeit I had to then change everything when you go inside and everything is much darker).

[@gregoryberrycone]

really looking forward to part 2

[@sarahmedford1468]

Fantanstic video Shady! Great messaging, editing and delivery. 👍 And noticed the credit at the end for the Live Tree in memory of Colton Alan Ross in San Gabriel Park. Nice touch.

[@KingRCT3]

0:57 Just starting the video, but did you know that Cyan was about to built a Myst replica on a real island within the Walt Disney World property in the late 90's? :)

[@matthewwilliams3827]

A real island MYST replica would be so, so cooool.

[@trapez77]

There was really only 2 from the ground up remakes for myst, with realmyst2000 and Myst for the Quest1. The rest are enhanced ports (the iPad version of realmyst was ported by Cyan themselves and the frame-rate and lighting is actually better than on PC) . I agree with everything you said. The remakes look more earth-like and less surreal. Eric also exposed in that same livestream that he thinks that Atrus wrote the age of Myst, but it was written by Catherine and Tiana, the first Myst novel explains that Catherine’s ages are surrealistic and don’t obey the normal laws of physics and nature. But in the remake they changed the acidic looking green water that looked like it was still and vibrating, to normal blue water with normal earthly properties. And they changed the strange clay like substance to normal rocks. And the turf like grass to normal overgrown ugly grass and foliage. And added normal looking blue sky and normal clouds. Robyn Miller is known for hating Realmyst. I wish Cyan never stopped making pre-rendered games because they were the absolute best studio for making those games and they haven’t been nearly as successful since their move to real-time 3d. Eric Anderson has said that there is no desire to go back to pre-rendered games because ‘nobody is asking for that’ and that if a pre-rendered game was released today it would be doomed to fail. But I disagree with that statement. Nobody was begging for a game like Myst when it came out, but it caught everyone by surprise and was a huge success. I think the real reason why they won’t do it is because the same people aren’t there anymore and they are now all familiar with developing real-time graphics with Unreal Engine, and it would be inconvenient to them to not utilize what they know and learn how to make a pre-rendered game. I also think that they shouldn’t go against the fans on the hand cursor and real actors. But they keep pushing the circle cursor on us. It’s just way more satisfying when you see your hand open up when it’s hovering over something that is interactive.

[@shadyparadox]

I agree with everything you say, except I'm optimistic we don't have to go back to pre-rendered graphics to get an amazing experience of Myst with modern graphics standards. But hopefully we'll see!

[@Welther47]

It's 2024. and Myst 4 is still the most graphically appealing to me. And I prefer the 360 degrees node based controls, as it's more relaxing to just play with a mouse. What would pre-rendered backgrounds look like today; HD photorealistic? Because of the URU and DRC (D'ni Restoration Council), and supposably another book cooking, there is room for maybe a new trilogy (w/ pre-rendered graphics and 360 nodes). One can dream.

[@toffylikesgames]

Just wanted to add more on my comment as I keep watching the video. The question of realism in games, especially Myst games, is such a good one. I agree with you, that realism doesn't have to mean... 'realism', you know. I like games that are realistic in that they make sense, but they have that... dreamy sense to it. Believable, but alien and new and so beautiful. I think that's why Myst iii also appealed to me SO much. Just that sweet sweet spot in-between. Also, new MYST 3d models for actors are so cursed haha. I've always liked Cyan's real actors much more, no matter the acting.

[@Panzer_the_Merganser]

13:44 Fitting that you’re playing MI2 music here, as the “Rationalist Vision” of how that series ended recently removed a LOT of the fun and escape from reality charm of the series IMHO. It’s as if these game designers, as they age and return to work done in their 20’s and 30’s, feel the need to light up all the corners and spell out all the vagaries, which then to me takes away whatever version of the game you constructed in your mind, especially if you played them as a kid and your imagination ran wild.

[@masterowl123]

I'm really not sure what people want when they say a "1 to 1 remake" because such a thing does not exist

[@raeraeraeth]

Robyn confirmed member of the underground More Trees faction

[@toffylikesgames]

Shady! How amazing to see you on my YT feed again :) This is a fine MYST review. I always found it amusing that Cyan keeps remastering the game, but I feel like at this point it's a game in the sandbox, they get better buckets to build a better castle haha. I usually dislike it when studios remake games that don't need remaking, but I'd give Cyan a pass because MYST is their baby and I don't feel like they're trying to moneygrab from their fans, just kinda playing around. Looking forward to the next video!

[@BlackSun404]

What the original had that I'm missing more on each iteration of Myst, is the eery, dark, creepy, ominous feeling of being somewhere I'm not SUPPOSED to be. Liminal space like. While it never was a horror game, many locations gave me the shivers down the spine. THAT is what I'm missing the most today. I do like the remakes for the 3D aspect of them, other than the poorly animated characters breaking my immersion whenever they come on screen. Greatly prefer the FMV modes, which isn't a thing for the otherwise pretty good Riven remake I'm playing rn.

[@TKFTGuillotine]

Honestly, I don't think FMVs were replaced because of a blanket belief that it was more realistic for characters to have depth at the expense of detail in a 3D environment. I tend to agree that FMVs do enhance realism and believability, and especially the way they were handled in Obduction made that game feel very realistic and grounded relative to other modern releases. I think it's specifically realism *in VR* that drove their decision on this one. realMyst/ME had no problem using FMVs all over the place because they could lock the player's view when need be. Atrus could deliver his speech in K'veer at the same head-on angle as he did in the original game and it would look perfectly fine. Certainly it would look better than using the 3D modelled Atruses (Atri?) that they'd put into those games to deliver the speech, since you're getting a literally photorealistic human talking to a camera. In VR, you don't get that luxury. Unlike in Obduction, the environments are already defined, so you can't just have characters talk through holograms or behind perfectly sized windows the entire time. Instead, you would either have a Doom-style always facing forward billboard-like character that disorients the player, or you have a *literal* billboard that looks like an infinitely thin screen when looked at off-axis instead of a character. If this was their line of thinking, it would also explain why the FMVs cease to exist in the final sequences. Obviously Atrus is supposed to be physically in the room with you, so that one makes sense. The endings with the brothers reverting back makes a bit less sense, but it likely has to do with a combination of those original videos just not feeling as though they're at the right scale in VR, and the videos not mapping well to the sort of dome effect they had going on. It also would've probably looked weird to have the new fog effect and the old VHS static effect blend together but that's sort of its own concern. Small sidebar: I should also note one quirk you may not have realized if you've never played the remake in VR: the 3D-modelled brothers are *not* flat videos. You can see them inset within the book, and if you move the book or your head around, you can see at different angles into the book. The endings have a similar perspective trick going on in the other direction, as though the brothers are giants peeking into a dome/box that you are at the bottom of. I imagine this was probably something they decided on after the fact, just to make the best of the situation. If we have to use 3D models, we might as well take advantage of them. Personally, I'm largely behind the realism approach. It's not so much because I think a more "magical" environment as they call it is uninteresting or non-immersive, nor even because I think it's an invalid interpretation of the original game, but because it feels as though a more mechanical world fits more in line with the universe they built up after this first entry. A surreal Myst doesn't feel foreign to or unacceptable within that universe - especially not if Serenia exists within that universe - but a mechanical Myst feels more at home to me. With that said, even a hyper-detailed 3D model isn't quite going to match the grounded realism of the FMVs for me, even if I do think just making more detailed models is the correct solution for a company dead-set on VR games. Amusingly, though I should be very happy with the most recent remake as someone in the "realism" camp, I find myself similarly annoyed by it. It's those VR changes you mention early in the video that drive me so crazy that I simply can't bring myself to recommend this newest version of the game to people, even despite the many changes that I ended up really appreciating. The irony is that despite chasing after realism, the insistence on raising everything to chest height, eliminating chairs, and sliding/mechanical doors everywhere make this the least believable version of the game to date, at least for me (seriously, who builds a vault that's only capable of holding single pages?). And if other VR games have taught me anything, it's that this lack of believability was almost completely avoidable. These are not design decisions that you will find in other VR games. Combine that with the failure of those new interfaces when put onto a flatscreen where most people will play the game (the rose/skull toy has been reduced to nothing) and the outright bugginess of some of those interfaces (fun fact, it's very easy to fail to trigger the pump in Stoneship because you didn't lower the lever completely) and the whole experience falls apart. Wow, I've just said a lot of words. My apologies, I'm just similarly disappointed to you that "Myst" as they decided to call it has been labelled as a sort of definitive edition when in my eyes (and clearly in yours, for different reasons) it's anything but. It's interesting to hear someone invested in the more "magical" aspects of the world, even if I'm not personally too concerned one way or the other.

[@datacentre81]

Interesting video. I agree in a lot of ways and maybe disagree in others, though I'm intrigued to see your follow up. I think you're definitely right about the myst remakes losing something by trying to apply the later myst games' rationalist/realist vision to the first game. Myst wasn't designed for that vision full stop, which makes the result feel kind of fractured and confused. Like, lots of Myst, completely setting aside magical elements, is designed to be surreal and visually interesting, not rationally contextualized. Things like the space ship with an organ in it to store a linking book, or the bizarre tree elevator for example. These things don't hold up to rational scrutiny through a lens of narrative and logic, and within Myst that's fine. Unlike its sequels, it's not interested in rationalizing everything. So when the remakes, especially the most recent one, try to apply rationalism in the details of things like the magic paintings, they're trying to fit a square peg in a round hole. You'd need to completely redesign the game around a rationalist approach, throwing out much of the original ideas, to really make that work and feel stylistically cohesive. It would be interesting, and I'd love to see what that would look like, but it definitely wouldn't be a "remake" in the normal sense. I will say, part of this is just the fundamental question of what purpose a remake should serve. Should it replace the original, as the "definitive" version of the experience, or be a companion piece to the original, branching off in different creative directions? I'd say I am typically more interested in the latter. Even when a more divergent remake fails to spark the same magic as the original, I tend to respect it more than rote copying.

[@Mike14264]

I keep saying we need a remake with a bigger island, the actual scale for what the in-universe canon states.

[@Simply_CH23]

to me, it's a difference of in-game focus points. in the original, you couldn't look behind a rock you were not meant to look behind, you saw just certain views. the newer versions each gave you more freedom, and that in turn blurred the picture. I would love to see Myst VR with actual actors, even if it's not Rand and Robyn. The inclusion of real people in this magical world grounds it more than making it function like our world does.

[@gamertechkid1490]

FYI Riven was just announced for June 25 2024

[@Shark-pj8in]

Let’s be honest... the remake of Myst aims for realism, and I think that’s a good move. Sure, the older games have this nostalgic charm, but they were limited by the tech of their time. Now that we have better technology, it’s time to make the world more believable. You can argue that the magic of the original games is what made them special, and I get that. But if you want the puzzles and environments to feel immersive, they should follow real-world logic. I know some people prefer the older games, and nostalgia plays a big role in that. But for a lot of people, it’s about enjoying a game that feels complete and coherent. If you want better graphics and a more consistent experience, the remake is the way to go. Realism in gaming has become the industry standard, especially for games set in relatable environments. We can still embrace magic exist in the right places, like the linking books and the ages. We just need a good balence.

[@barichm0]

I have particularly felt this way about the crystal towers in the Selenitic Age. In the original MYST, they had a distinctive colored appearance. None of the remakes have that aesthetic.

[@DarkSamus100]

Great video Shady. Thank you for the video and all the effort you put in it, it shows. I await to see the next instalment of this series. That part tree is funny, especially with you going out and touching the tree. Save the trees ;) . #BringBackTheTreesInMyst. I always like the magical and mysterious perspective of the Myst series and the different beautiful worlds. I didn’t even consider Rive more realistic than Myst, I found it as magical and mysterious as Myst, but even more beautiful than Myst. I loved exploring the world, seeing the different elements and creatures, the lore/story. Same for Myst 3 and Myst 4. I think I like immersion more than realism, as I love different settings, like Sci-fi(Star wars games, Dr.Brain thinking games: IQ adventure, etc.), fantasy(the elder scrolls, etc.) and more. I love the music choice, especially the Sam and Max one, Sybil’s office. Anyway, thanks again for the video. May you and everybody, plus your family and friends, have a good day and week-end. Cheers and bless you all.

[@angelomattei2304]

I play every game and VR is a master piece, I was so immersed that it make me feel the cold in the caves and the wind outside, the change of the doors it was something so insignificant I don't even notice.

[@randylplampin1326]

13:51 The picture on the wall on the left (as seen from this angle) is an actual rendition of a famous painting in the Louvre of Paris by Jean Auguste Dominique Ingres, 1806, of Napoleon in a fancy coat holding a sceptre except it has the face of Sirrus. However, you did know this from your Art Appreciation class in high school days, right?

[@CodeRed001]

All I want is a version of the game that is fully 3d and vr that looks exactly like the original game. I think it would look so cool to walkthrough a version of myst that looks like it's old 90's 3d renderings. They still have the original 3d models and textures too. They took the original assets and made high quality renderings and videos of the original Myst Island and it's ages and added those videos to the Myst book replica I own. I think you can find the videos online. They are great looking. Just take those assets and convert them over into unity or unreal. It wouldn't be too difficult since were talking not very complicated models or textures. Make it fully 3d and make it where I can walk around in vr. They removed the Rime age from Myst VR, why would they remove that newer content yet change so much artistically? The newest vr version looks like a ugly unreal tech demo someone made for youtube views.

[@MarstedR]

One thing about the last 2 remakes that has always bothered me is the lack of gloom. The original myst has a somewhat cold look with dull colors, a cool pallet, howling wind and heavy fog. Everything's all clear, saturated and sunny now. When I want to experience Myst, the original is usually my choice. The newer remakes are high quality and good in their own right, but when I want to experience Myst the way I remember it, there's only one option. The new one I basically just use for VR, which is awesome. I wish they'd introduce a "gloomy" mode or something.

[@swordofkings128]

13:38 I'm team old Myst but the iridescent shine on the water there is a neat touch.

[@aserta]

13:52 rationalist indeed, because it robs everything magical about the original. Myst in the new vision wouldn't have sold 5 million copies. Proof being other games with "realism" "rationalized" into the mix, contemporary to Myst. For shame that Cyan can't see the forest for the trees, despite deforesting the island so badly, it will soon turn into an easter island, complete with moai stones.

[@hfric]

Not 4 , but 8 as in EIGHT remakes ...Myst on CD, Myst ME on DVD with VOB movies, Real Myst with new Age, Real Myst ME rebuild on UNITY , Myst Remake for Tablets and Phones , Myst rebuild on Unreal sponsored by Facebook Meta for Oculus VR that became a Double Remake since it had a non VR mode ... heck if you count versions made for the Sega Saturn, Sony PlayStation, Atari Jaguar CD, PSP , AmigaOS, CD-i ,3DO consoles ... its not 8 but 15 ! versions all with differences ... or 19 if you count the Atari 2600 demake ... No , Myst does not needs YET ANOTHER REMAKE REMASTER it was MILKED TO DEATH ! ... you know what needs a Remake on UE5.2 URU and Myst V ...

[@curaloucura]

I have been struggling to understand why Myst captured me so strongly and your video made a lot of sense for me. Stretching a little but this video also clarifies another issue I have been struggling with. The first time I played Zelta BotW, it hit me pretty much like Myst did a while ago and it was one of the few games that made me feel like playing Myst when I was a kid. When TotK came out, it felt lacking. I have heard all the good praises about how great the game is, but it just doesn't really speak to me. It sure is a great "game" but to me it lost most of the mythical factors and it became just a "puzzle" world with a pretty story. And that is also what Myst was to me. A fantasy world grounded in reality. That non-sensical belongs to the reality without extrapolating it, creating a perfect balance. If too much of one or the other, the bubble pops and it becomes just another "game". Thank you for the great video.

[@nomoresaul]

31:59 I heard “MystCommunication” lol

[@Inspiration_Date]

I find it strange that the developers are trying to remove the supposed "magic" of the Myst games. So how do you explain books that teleport you to tiny worlds that can be built or altered by just writing on a page? Also, explain the Star Fissure while you're at it, Cyan. Clearly, there's a rational explanation for it, right? Just put a bunch of interlocking gears in it in the next remake.

[@trapez77]

The tablet is what makes the books work. And I believe the star fissure was created by the bahro

[@Inspiration_Date]

@@trapez77 The Bahro are basically magical aliens, though. They created an entire pocket dimension of stars that can teleport to other worlds? That doesn't sound scientific to me; it sounds more like god-like whimsy.

[@agahnim0196]

There's a difference between types of magic though... i don't think that Cyan wants to remove all magic from the Myst universe, i think they mostly want to keep it "Credible". Here's the thing about magic in fiction... in general, a magic system is credible, if it has rules and consistency... as opposed to random Deus Ex Machina. Star Wars, Lord of the Rings or Harry Potter all have magic in it, but the magic operates consistently within a set of rules inherent to the universe from which it comes. This helps make magic tangible and prevents the viewer (or player) from feeling cheated, while also helping create a unique universe that makes sense all while being completely different from ours. Linking Books and the Star Fissure fit within the realm of possibilities of the rules dictated by the overarching lore of the Myst universe. There's consistency to how they work, and ways to operate them. For example, you can't link to a different spot in the same Age to teleport around, you can't travel through time, you can't modify an existing Age at a fundamental level, of you'll just link to another one altogether and lose your link to the previous iteration. Also, the Star Fissure appears in Riven because the Age is collapsing, it is the void between the ages, and falling from it in Riven leads to Earth (D'ni's surface), hence why you found the Myst linking book in the first place, and how it allows you to go back home at the end of Riven. The thing with OG Myst's magic is that it is a lot more random, or like Rand would say, "eclectic"'. There are no reasons or logic behind a book materializing out of a wooden table when you touch it, or how a TV screen would allow you to link to Selenitic without the book. Those are small things but which creates inconsistencies within the rules of the universe, and those are problematic if you look at the series as a whole.

[@aserta]

Tone deaf combined with a new team that is 100% clueless to the old works and finds these "rational" paths to be OK, partly because they're from a different age of computing, partly because they were CHOSEN for it. For shame that Cyan cannot see what they're doing to their own legacy. But i guess it's typical for creators in that timeline. Lucas, Ridley Scott, and a whole score of other creators that cannot stop themselves from destroying what they've made. For me, this dissonance was twice worse because i tried playing Firmament and saw all the bad things. I'm extremely disappointed in Cyan's new approach and the slap that comes with it. VR is nothing more than a passing fad, much like AI. THERE's a reason why, within a sole year, you could buy dev kits for VR headsets from fleabay. And the reason is because it's not what it says on the box. If you're willing to accept that, it's ok, but most people that have tried VR and from which i could discuss VR and their experience to gather exactly what they're thinking about it, were not impressed. Cyan bought entirely too much into the VR flag and decided it's a good hatchet for their work. I suppose it's the same thing that happened on the Easter island, where the group hate and religious aspects extincted the population and made devoid the island of trees, leaving behind giant statues of men (complete with dinguses) and large "coin" wheels. I'm expecting to be disappointed in their newest remake too. Because their idea of "remake" is to disregard everything that made the game work. It's like going to a franchise restaurant in a different country. You expect to find the same burger you like from your home place and instead you find a different, blander version that doesn't really have anything of the taste and feel you got home. I'm happy with my OG myst games on my OG PC that still works. I fire it up every few years to play these games (and others) and honestly, if the new remake makes the same mistakes, i'll wash my hands of Cyan, because Cyan washed their hands of us. They have giant statues of VR headsets on a large bald island with rusty gears that won't turn for anyone.

[@LaukkuPaukku]

I think "liminal" is a good word to describe the quality of the original Myst's graphical atmosphere which the remakes increasingly lack. There's a "Liminal space (aesthetic)" article on Wikipedia about the concept; also Google image search for "liminal space". There's also a certain Alice in Wonderland -esque intrigue in being transported to a world that operates in a dreamlike fashion. Dreams are pre-articulate states of knowledge where fuller understanding is still under the process of being formed. Rationalising everything, locking them down with "this is why this is here and this is how this works", is delivering premade knowledge and taking away that dreamlike essence of free association. Instead of making the player go "Oh, what is this?! What is that!?" in a more profound way, the game becomes just another fictional world. On a similar note, The Atlantic has an article, "One of the Best Fantasy Novels Ever Is Nothing Like The Lord of the Rings" (non-paywalled version available via the Wayback Machine), about the novel The Last Unicorn, touching upon how its lack of rigorous worldbuilding works in its favour.

[@woulfhound]

I re-read your comment and I'm afraid I very much disagree with you. "Just another fantasy world" literally describes The Last Unicorn. You can literally describe any fantasy world with that statement regardless of "world building". There is such a thing as "This new thing doesn't make sense when compared to everything else. Why is this a thing now?" Simple: because the author said so... Free association has a horrible way of back firing on pretty much everyone when the fantasy world you're exploring becomes mind numbing drivel. Like trashy kids cartoons that rot your brain. Riven was able to stay grounded in "fantasy science" without losing its "dream-like" ambience and I very much appreciate it for that. What I don't appreciate is how you seem to be on this high horse about how world building ruins the surreal.

[@LaukkuPaukku]

@@woulfhoundMy "just another fictional world" comment was directed more toward how Myst specifically is being turned into something it is not (note how I used terms like "the player" and "the game"), but other stories can sometimes indeed be hurt too by overexplaining instead of letting the core ideas speak for themselves. There's a reason Star Wars fans were upset by the introduction of midichlorians, for example. The Last Unicorn (although I've only seen the film adaptation, years ago) is a story that operates on the level of themes and symbolism, systematising it would only hold it back. That's not to say more grounded works like Riven shouldn't be enjoyed for what they are, however. A healthy mind incorporates both free recombination of ideas (to overcome unknown unknowns) and restrained logic after all, even if the two are fundamentally opposing forces. And stories that are pure noise become throwaway when the ideas emerging from it don't resonate, without expanding the edge of understanding.

[@woulfhound]

@@LaukkuPaukku I see, and I suppose that makes more sense. I always thought Myst looked the way it did because of the limitations of the technology at the time. Not because it was part of the lore that Rand and Robyn were building. I suppose a world can look surreal even if it looks "fake" or "flat". Myst always looked unfinished to me because of the low poly count. However, maybe you're right, maybe "less is more" in the case of Myst. I would not say that about Riven however. I'm one of those people who needs to see reality contrasted against the surreal because of how lowbrow American cartoons scared my imagination.

[@purefoldnz3070]

I'm just hanging out for the Riven remake!

[@doltBmB]

I will say, what Myst needs is the same as what any true classic game needs. Not another remake or remaster, but a proper honest to god port to modern systems. Make the original hypercard code run on modern windows and linux, that is all that is really needed, true preservation.

[@deemster4249]

Yes. Just like they did for Cosmic Osmo.

[@Javifaa]

Why? We still have Masterpiece edition, where the differences are just the renders having better color depth, and a modern-ish engine that runs on modern computers.

[@doltBmB]

@@Javifaa masterpiece edition is for windows 98, and I believe it has several deficiences in terms of sound and music compared to the original

[@laurilehtiaho9618]

Just in the middle of my first watch-through of this, but I think there is an interesting parallel regarding Tolkien's Hobbit on one hand and Lord of the Rings on the other. Like Myst and Riven, the former is more whimsical and creative, while the latter is more realistic and gritty. Would be interesting to further elaborate on how far this similarity goes. I do know that Tolkien did revisit the Hobbit, making it align better with the grander vision of the later books, but I don't think he leaned too far in his tampering. At the same time we can consider the movie trilogy by Peter Jackson and then his later Hobbit adaptions - where the similarity seems to be even more poignant. Also, since we now have a new remake of Riven, hyped to see part 2 of this.

[@matthewhornbostel9889]

Well, here's one thought. Myst's old tech limitations in both the 1993 and 2000 limited its scope and the size of every world to the point where they barely felt like full worlds, they were small. We are told there is an underground residence built into Myst Island but we haven't ever seen that. Myst Island has a really small mountain, and is just generally small. Nowhere is that more strongly obvious than in RealMyst. I figure personally... make the tone a little more ominous, Myst Island a bit cooler color wise, have random weather, rain in various levels of heaviness, fog rolling in and out, and day night cycles in every age, and make the age scale feel about 2x bigger. Fill in more assorted details in spots that are opened up doing this. More animals wandering around, more diverse plant life, little spaces here and there that fit the aesthetic and logic of the world but add a bit of surprising additional detail to it. I love the idea of this isle being a full forest that has varied trees, maybe a little creek running through or something, more paths. Basically... a Myst which takes increased risk, by filling in more here and there that the same predictable landmarks and at the exact smae size, instead adding new things in between that fit nicely. Like with the 2024 Riven, where clearly new places and bits of these worlds now are accessible, and with those some new extra puzzles and story details. Make Myst a bigger game setting, reintroduce Rime but more impressive, and make the characters and the way they are animated high quality as much as is possible. My idea is ultimately less about queries of realism, rationalism and more focused on expanding scope, adding more new and maybe even filling in a surprising new age branching off Myst Island? Making a Myst that's not strict remake but expands the ambition based on everything that is clearly possible now* including, ideally, a roster of new enchanting music tracks by Robyn for a few new areas. Could be amazing. It feels like every version makes a lot of things better and some specific aspect decidedly worse. Like, Masterpiece Edition had more color depth but truncated the music. Realmyst gave us realtime and Rime but had to reduce geometry detailing to make it work in realtime. Realmyst ME gave us better water and lighting effects but lost some day night cycles while adding a couple new ones. Myst 2021 added more detail, VR and some interesting design shifts but lost Rime and had the 3d characters that looked cartoonish. I feel that the key is add more, more scale, more detailing and mood, a few new puzzles and areas, day and night and weather cycles in all ages, adding a lot of new bits and making things feel bigger, without losing any elements players have appreciated or making any particular thing decidedly way weaker or worse, as has occurred in every prior rerelease. The sense of mystery and discovery and the magic of the unknown is still possible to recapture not necessarily by rejecting realism and detailing, but by surprising us with new things scattered around an expanded landmass, in each world, new spaces and unlockable views and sites that we have not anticipated and which, at times, aren't immediately obvious that they are even there. That feeling of the unknown and uncertain is only going to come back if we as players start to realize the ages of Myst are being expanded beyond what we're used to. We all know Myst well by now, and the key is adding new elements to each world such that we suddenly feel like it is somethiing bigger, something other than exactly the same place we think we know fully. That is super risky and it is expensive but it also may be the only way to make another circa 2026-2027 version of Myst definitive in the way the newest Riven looks to hopefully be. It is by doing the unexpected but also beautiful in a bunch of spots around the worlds we are used to being a certain way, a d making those extensions in such a way that it still somehow fits the context of each world.

[@recoveringsoul755]

I played the first version and it took me a long, delicious time to complete the game. I loved slowly exploring the worlds and figuring out how to solve things when, fiyr example, i have no ear for musuc (I put post it notes on the monitor) I had sn entire composition book where i took elaborate notes. Drew clues, contents of books, mazes, etc. Ut was faster than running back to find the clue .to watch people solve it quickly now makes me so mad. Where's the enjoyment in that?

[@doltBmB]

Ah, I remember mapping out the entire selenetic underground, I'm sure there was another way to do it but this one was mine.

[@recoveringsoul755]

@@doltBmB if I didn't map it out, I would have been wandering aimlessly still

[@pcuser80]

Perfect video editing Shady.👍

[@goodiesguy]

29:28 the version on the right doesn't even look or feel like Myst tbh

[@thepurpleriv]

Would love to see part 2!

[@goodiesguy]

This 100% it even outlines my problems with the new Riven remake.

[@rinoz47]

The 3d models are better in Riven but I'd still prefer an upscale of the original fmv sequences. Which is the best I'll ever say about fmv.

[@Bleenderhead]

wait, if there were a linear relationship between the age of the target demographic and realism, a perfectly realistic game would only be played by immortals hundreds of years old?

[@gregoryberrycone]

to me the element thats been toned down/removed from the modern versions of myst and its sequels seems essentially like an abstract, almost childlike sense of magical realism, along with elements of disparate visual styles that lends the game a sort of uncanny, timeless anachronism

[@oker59]

I think redoing Myst with new technological ability is absolutely the right thing to do. Gives them an excuse to add some new stuff and reason to go through Myst again!

[@oker59]

I don't see this conflict of vision. I've always thought that Myst(Myst and Riven) combined both realism and fantasy. As the computer technology has advance, the realistic element has come a bit more into play; but, I don't think they've taken away the fantasy. The Boat still comes up out of the water; we still go from world to world through a book.

[@gizelle-s]

Watching this after just having played the Riven remake, and yeah, the changes that were made kinda disappointed me. VRification of things, removal of things I really loved about the game, it's been a bit of a disappointment to be honest. I don't feel like it's Riven anymore, but Riven adjacent. I wish they would have just made it the same. They changed the fire marble puzzle completely, I loved the rolling eyes with the animal sounds, now you have to use this dumb eyeglass thing, it removed the connection I had with the environment to an extent, now I no longer need to listen to what the frogs may sound like or the whark or anything really.

[@Finger112]

Well Riven Remake is coming out this month on June 25th!

[@goodiesguy]

What's that game at the 18 minute mark with the big chess pieces?

[@MrKotBonifacy]

So, as an avid fan of the original MYST (v. 1.1, that is), AND someone with penchant for all things "magic(al)" - in fact I'd say READING Andersen's tales would give a kid way greater experience comparing with watching movies - the reason is, a narrative stimulates one's imagination, as it tosses CONCEPTS at the reader, who then has to work them out in his or her imagination, rather than presenting ready-made "finite and fixed" pictures that happened to tickle producer's fancy (and YES, as a five-six yrs old kid I war reading Andersen's tales myself), so "as such individual" I have a mixed feelings about realism taking first seat in remake producers' minds. I mean, it has its benefits, but then "immersion in a story" is more about the STORY itself, not fancy graphics - look no further than Grim Fandango game - with its crude (if not laughable) "3D renderings" and silly flaws (like when Glottis have opened his mouth - or "snout" and you could actually get a glimpse of things behind his head), YET the game was immensely immersive. On the other hand, "point and click" Starship Titanic, while fun to play (bar for more than a few maddeningly illogical and/or obscure puzzles - so much so than latter issues came with bundled guidebook), was, well, "just that". Ditto for "3D" Mephisto or REAH - intriguing, with well done (by the standard of their times) graphics, still you could just "take a break" from them at virtually any moment without that nagging desire to get back at them ASAP. Gatting back at "MYST genre" - when Myst III Exile came out I grabbed it, installed on my G5 Mac (which required some tweaking, AFAIR, since G5 introduced some new "hardware architecture" that wasn't 100% compatible with the installer, but I digress here), and... "Well, not bad, actually... I mean, quite nice, but... GIMME THE RIVEN FEEL BACK! RIGHT NOW, OR ELSE!" ;-) OK, 'nuff of this whining and complaining - but the fact is that "improved reality", while having its merits and benefits (looking at the "cogs" in MYST was for me, a mechanically inclined individual, really hard thing to, and "no, reely? srsly, does it have to be THAT dumb?" feeling never actually went away), the "loss of magic", if you will, was a sad thing - and tad too high a price to pay for all that "realism". BUT! - the newest iteration (2020?) of it brings some of that back, thanks to... I guess that "unreal" tint does the trick - although I have to admit that the first moment I saw it was like "WHAAA?! Who came up with this pinkish nonsense?" - but when I watched the gameplay (on YT) for a moment I though "actually, wait a minute - that DOES make sense after all..." So, here's my twopence on it. And as they say, "de gustibus non disputandum est (aka "beauty is in the eye of beholder"), so anyone can have his or her opinion - including myself ;-) ...and on this positive note... : )

[@Rhodochrone]

Very intriguing and insightful. I definitely prefer the atmosphere of Myst over the 21 version's. The colour palette, the use of lighting, contrast and dynamic range, I find both things more engaging even with the crude '93 graphics. The red trees and green seas of Myst, the considerably darker wood in channelwood... colours engage an automatic associative response when you see them, and I think aren't given enough consideration. The 3D characters for Myst '21 were a considerably sub-par experiment and shouldn't really be taken as an indicator for the limitations of CG. (More so the limitations of Cyan's budget and hired talent at the time) It's borderline programmer art, competing directly with a real life recording. The mouths are weight painted weirdly with poor topology (look how the mouths open, with those strange sharp corners.) and anatomy isn't great, so the animation is inexpressive. Atrus looks constantly pissed off. It seems like high effort but lack of experience. By now 3D characters are a refined art form. (Look at the characters in the new God Of War games. They aren't even based on real people, they're purely digital sculptures brought to life.) There is also no subsurface scattering, which is where the light scatters through the translucent skin and illuminates the blood inside. It's not a hard thing to implement in modern game engines. Luckily, Cyan now has character specialists, and they've got access to some of the easiest and most advanced tools for human characters ever made. Riven's humans are going to be incomparable to those in Myst. (And I think the new Atrus might get backported to Myst.) kzbin.info/www/bejne/pp_EfKyZaNKEjM0 Also a rant about lighting When I see the bright overcast sky through the dark pines out the window of a bedroom in channelwood, it feels like a real place in Myst. The remake lost this feeling entirely for me, especially with its bizarre use of overbright lanterns everywhere that made things look washed out and don't really make sense for an abandoned place. Artificial lights should also be hugely overpowered by natural light, as well. Lamplight is like 120lux. Overcast daylight is around 2000lux. Sunlight is 50,000lux. Obviously Myst 1 was just eyeballed but the lack of global illumination (resulting in dark shadows) and darker texturework resulted in something that felt more instinctively natural to my eye.

[@shadyparadox]

Thanks for all the feedback. But the main thing I really tried to make clear in that chapter regarding the character portrayal is that _the technology is not the central part of the issue._ One side insists that it is, so if we just got better models, if we just upgraded what they looked like, if we just had more "artful" portrayals of what technology can offer these days or whatever, then everyone would be happy. But I don't think the other side would agree. The phenomenon of "real people in unreal worlds" was such an integral part of the original experience that any attempt to diverge from that in order to conform to modern gaming expectations will always miss the mark. It may look more appealing than what we currently have, but it won't be any closer to recapturing the original spirit.

[@Rhodochrone]

I never intended to undermine the core point of the video; rather, just throw in some of my knowledge and feelings. You helped me reconsider how realism can be used as a device rather than a creative oppressor. However: Ultimately FMVs aren't "real" either. They're an interpretation of a human performances through a pipeline of tech. More dynamic styles of performance capture and rendering have always been drastically less true to life, while these compressed camera recordings require very little suspension of disbelief. I appreciate there are psychological elements to knowing something was filmed with a camera with real clothes and props, and seeing these elements contrasted with a surreal world. Plus associative feelings, like nostalgia. With the quality of tech being irrelevant, I imagine this feeling is key. However, to say that drastically more natural looking people (driven by real acting and scanned by real cameras) wouldn't bring things closer to the original vision versus play-doh animatronics seems an odd thought. The fact that real-time performance rendering is only just on the verge of photorealism means we can only speculate how tech will really make things feel for everyone. I mean, if it really truly just looked like real people.

[@jeanjacqueslundi3502]

I've never been a Myst fan per se. I've played Riven first and then played the rest of the series.....what really grabbed me was Riven, not Myst. But I enjoyed Myst, enjoyed realMyst when I bought it..........but they are insisting too much on the first game for sure. I haven't tried Obduction or Firmament yet, but Obduction in particular, does FEEL like it has a cohesive vibe I might enjoy.

[@kukukachu]

I am so glad I bought the original realMYST...it's a shame it got delisted. The new Riven looks like it's STILL gonna have sliding doors...how unfortunate. The good news is, that it looks more believable in the trailer, so here's hoping they all do. Also, just read your comment about you taking a long time on Episode 2. I too have to make a part 2 for what I'm working on and I have learned I won't be doing parts ever again, or else the v1d30 won't get done. I either make it all, or I don't make it. Good luck to you one the other 2 episodes. You have to remember that the same people that worked on the older version of something are no longer working at the company...take Left for Dead and Back 4 Blood for instance. One was made by a top notch team and the other was using the notoriety of that company to masquerade, pretending to be that same group, when they weren't... it happens all the time. Just look at FF7R, and Last of Us 2...Look at all the movies and games being made by these people, injecting themselves into one of the characters...it's gross. These people delusionally believe that they can make something better than what was originally made, however, they don't have enough creativity to make their own ideas. They have to pathetically, leech from older IPs...they're losers. Magic works just fine in Myst because magic is just science not yet understood... I really hope they keep everything as is with Riven and don't try to "enhance" it. Since Riven is completely different to Myst, I'm sure there won't be too much issue with the Riven remake, but I guess we'll see, when it releases.

[@micahbush5397]

To me, in spite of all the remakes, Myst has never truly moved toward realism, in the sense that it's never felt truly lived-in. Fairly early on, it was acknowledged that the "real" Myst Island was significantly larger than what we see in-game, yet the island has stayed the same size, and there aren't any living quarters or unused places of protection as there should be. In the inhabited Ages, there's also a lack of details needed to make the Ages habitable. Where are the fruiting vines, nuts, water plants, or birds and insects that the Tree-Dwellers in Channelwood would have needed for food, and where did they get fresh water in any of the Ages? Riven had an ecosystem that, while alien, was believable, and there were signs (ex. the animals on the Moiety stones) that even that was a mere shadow of what once was. Another thing that bothers me is Cyan's tendency to conflate realism with a ramshackle appearance. A particular gripe of mine is the floors in Hunrath or Achenar's room in Channelwood: The floorboards are placed very irregularly and with massive gaps in the floor. Real people don't build floors like that, and it's evident from other locations within those worlds that the people were easily capable of building to a higher standard. It feels as though Cyan is trying to recapture something from Riven, but they themselves don't fully know what that "something" really is.

[@jasonchien6622]

Shady - there is no Myst series without hearing your voice, diehard supporter here!

[@ICountFrom0]

You have opinions on myst, and riven, and exile... but what about Uru?

[@Mr.Pokeylope9082]

Having just played through RealMyst Masterpiece Edition, I think it's still best (unpopular opinion though that may be). They ruined some of the best art in Myst VR (the brothers rooms in the Mechanical Age in particular comes to mind as an early example).

[@ICountFrom0]

The mystical is much more there when you are reading the books. Sure, there's some handwave, there's some super science, but it's also almost a RELIGION sometimes in other places, and you just belive and do the right thing, and the creation works right.

[@Musikur]

I'm not sure I completely agree with your analysis, but I do in part. I disagree that Riven was necessarily a lot more 'Realistic' than Myst; it's pretty 'un-realistic'. It has water that shrinks away from heat, it has a rip in the fabric of space time, and giant knives which just appeared in the world. That being said, it has more verisimilitude than Myst and you do feel like there is a reason for everything, even if you don't understand it straight away. In my opinion, the trouble with Myst is not that they have tried to make it more realistic than Riven, but just that they have tried to make it... "less". In every sense of the term. The reason there are less trees is because Myst Island has shrunk - you can't see the library from the clock tower in the original. The interactive objects are more out of place in the environment because you can't direct the player towards them by manipulating their view. In essence, I think it's less that they have made the game "realistic", and more that they have made it more 'Game Like'. Another issue, which I'm surprised you didn't touch on, is that Cyan definitely changed after Robin left. I think Rand had a different view for the game than what they two of them did together, and we see more of that now on screen, whereas I get the impression that he was more the 'get things done' guy while Robin was the 'artistic' guy in the original development, and perhaps the originator of more of the whimsy. Anyway, just my thoughts.

[@zesty2023]

*Thank you SO much Shady for mentioning the same thing thats been bothering me. I hate seeing the world of Myst being fucked with and changed. The ultimate remake for me would be one where the world looks and functions identically to the original but is just 3D and has higher def textures. That's it, is that so hard?? Make an alternate VR version if you have to have VR play so badly!*

[@tonimahoni2607]

Real actors are no longer used because of this: It requires a technique called FMV (Full motion video), which allows pre-recorded video files to display action in the game. People need to understand that there is a reason why classic FMV has more or less died out in video games these days. The reason is that the technology has a lot of limitations. One of the main limitations is, that FMV's can only be viewed from the perspective that the video was shot at. This makes it very difficult to implement FMV's in a 3D environment in a natural and convincing way, especially if we are talking about VR. Cyan still tried to use it in Obduction and the result was not really great. There are 2 possible solutions: Either rely on Stereo-VR live action (More or less the classical FMV Technology), as Cyan did in their game Obduction and be limited to flat 2D surfaces like holographic billboards, screens, and characters enclosed behind glass, or use new technologies like "volumetric video." The problem with Stereo-VR live action is that it often feels very unnatural in a 3D environment because developers have to restrict the player's angle of view of the scene. It also requires a lot of resources (equipment, actors, stages, props, costumes, etc.), which combined with the results just makes it too unappealing. Cyan noticed this problem after they finished their work on Obduction, so they shifted their resources in a different direction while working on Firmament. Volumetric Video, requires even more resources because of the extensive hardware rig that is required. The rendering time also makes it very unattractive. 1 frame = 29 CPU hours (Source: Google Paper, Immersive Light Field Video with a Layered Mesh Representation) That's beyond what small indie studios can handle. And the Studio would also need to figure out, how to make it work with their game engine.

[@trapez77]

I don’t mind being locked in place during a fmv scene

[@trapez77]

The 7th guest remake had fmv in 3d

[@tech6hutch]

32:02 or you could say, one big _myst_ communication

[@AsteroidTVGaming]

great video!°

[@coreysingsanime]

I wosh you would go back and do a playthrough of riven, myst iv, uru and v i love ur playthrough and knowledge on the series

[@gideonhansen5485]

I enjoy the realism, but I also liked the magic/mystery of it all. I don’t need to understand why something moves. I know I’m not in the real world playing those games and that’s why I enjoy them.

[@Welther47]

I think the "magic" that is lost is due to moving it into full 3D. You can't make the same game, if you change how it's played and how it looks.

[@aserta]

7:15 no, no you're not. I genuinely don't care about the VR changes in Cyan games. New or old. Every time there's something bad, that breaks the flow, i later found out it was changed for... VR. It genuinely wants me to never play this game in VR or the new variants.

[@TurboBass]

MAN you sound so much like the youtuber ThinkBeforeYouSleep

[@Compwhiz128]

"We have this idea, buy it for us please" seems to not have as much push as "we have this idea, here's our proposal, our budget, and our timeline".

[@theendofit]

I want a true absolute ground up remake. Ie a game thats made from same design documents and thats it. All puzzles completely reworked all ages just inspired by the ones befor. Genral plot points the same but how they go from start to end all different. Most importantly geting to see a more liviable ages belivable people would be living in them. Its what i wanted with myst remake and riven remake. Rivens remake was alot closer to that but still far off.

[@pianoplayeh]

So you're saying... they added midichlorians.

[@JanetDax]

Your video makes me think of Black Mirror. Would you really want a game where you so immersed in the reality that you feel the pain and experience the blood running down your face.

[@nomoresaul]

I’m imagining the Apple Vision of Myst 😉

[@trapez77]

New screenshots of riven remake are up on steam . You should do a comparison

[@theendofit]

Its the realism movement in games like the realism movement in art. In art it also ruined alot of things as it runied alot of stylistic things

[@yaosio]

I think Myst has been remade and ported more times than Skyrim.

[@Artyom64824]

1993 and 2014 look the best in the act of finer detail. 2021 version looks far to bright and cheerful. 2021 just truly doesn't "look" interesting. Still a great game...

[@TristynRusselo]

well now Riven HAS been remade. playing in VR now. love it. Disable DLSS

[@lathander9123]

VR is nothing wrong here , Every changed elements you lists are not the VR problems. You can coach and Push and pull the doors, Almost every VR does that, please refer the gameplay of Half-Life: Alyx. I agree that the lists of change is make Myst more like a game-like and I don't like the changes either.

[@bruce1947]

The Vr changes kinda suck for VR. I l'm playing this to experience myst in vr, not whatever this is. I wanna touch the mechanisms i've only seen, i wanna look up and see the stars in the planitarium. I wanna open the doors. I wanna touch the paintings and have them magically change. All these changes do is make this game less interesting to play in VR.

[@ar_xiv]

The version from 2000 looks fine to me

[@TheExileFox]

Music from the Sims feels like an odd choice.

[@Aaron-od9ul]

Yeah to be honest I'll just get the 2014 one.

[@graizur]

Trying to figure out twitch ...

[@NickFlack]

remake not remaster, not necessarily 100% same as old version. Let's pass 1 keep on, it remastered SO many times.

[@Popsy1972]

I think the word you're searching for is surrealism.

[@Lynxdoc]

I respectfully disagree - I love to realism and making it feel like I am there. They're is a part of Myst that you don't actually see. Other senses are involved. The music for one thing - Myst wouldn't be the same without the music just like Star Wars wouldn't be the same without William's score. Their is third aspect that you didn't quite touch on and one that has always drawn me not only to Myst, Riven and the other games but Cyan themselves and that is their playfulness to play other "non-computer" type games with us as fan. One subtle aspect of both Myst and Riven was the unsettling "feel" you got playing the games - not an evil creepiness per se but just a mysterious and unsettling one - In the games no mater which version I have felt I was being watched or stalked - Riven actually added to this with some literal elements like the little girl in the dark jungle area and the guy in the warning tower or the feeling Gehn was nearby but just a few steps ahead of you. I have also loved Cyan's playfulness over the years from the Spyder easter egg/slow drip reveal of Uru elements, Achenars mutterings on the imager or the creepy items in different ages like trapsm drugs, creepy toys, etc. Also before Uru they had a wonderful - real life game that enhanced the aspect of Uru being something real in this world.

[@shadyparadox]

"I love to realism and making it feel like I am there." Perhaps you misunderstood my thesis. I too love the sensation that I'm physically present inside the worlds of Myst. My point was that rationalism is not necessary to accomplish this. The original Myst gave us that immersion - that sense that we are physically present - despite the fact its rules did NOT conform to the same rules of our world. But ever since then, Cyan has changed its philosophy as if the worlds DO have to behave like our world in order for us to feel physically present. In fact, it was precisely this deviation from reality while still being immersive that made the original Myst so captivating. A "realistic" Myst by comparison I find rather boring.

[@darrenm303]

I did not like this video. Didn't like the cadence in your voice and the downplaying it carried for this digital media treasure. I think your point as a whole is irrelevant because these versions of Myst are all separate games with different experiences that at one point all looked "realistic" for the time. If you want that magic not entirely explainable feel then why not only ever just play the original? Why bother with the latest iteration? The latest myst in vr only looks "real" now, but it won't in 10 years. There were still reductions from the most high def experience that had to be taken to put it on a vr gaming device. The textures were not maxed out. At some point it will be more real, sure. But it's a different type of game than the original Myst. Myst was immersive but also magical, myst VR is believable but also fascinating because you can't experience that place in real life. I'm not sure why that isn't good enough for you that you have to make an obnoxiously boring video about how you'd prefer cyans work to appeal to you. Gross. Smug. Thumbs down.