Why NO ONE Plays: Ganondorf | Super Smash Bros. Ultimate

Ganondorf is one of the most well known characters in The Legend of Zelda universe, yet his career in the Smash Bros franchise has been nothing short of underwhelming. He's been historically considered a bottom tier fighter, if not the worst character of all time. Today we're gonna investigate exactly why that is in Why NO ONE Plays: Ganondorf.
Smash Ultimate Why NO ONE Plays Playlist: bit.ly/3w6zES0
Smash Ultimate Why EVERYONE Plays Playlist: bit.ly/3O9tEyI
Check out my Main channel! bit.ly/3DQbIoJ
Check out my Genshin Impact channel! bit.ly/3HQN9ud
Support me on Patreon! bit.ly/3iy5pvu
Donate to the channel! bit.ly/36TpIQP
~Editor (Chains)~
Twitter: / codychains
~Contact Links~
Twitter: bit.ly/3kv7CZU
Discord: bit.ly/33M2iev
Twitch: bit.ly/2XNes31
Candle.gg: bit.ly/3ndfU9r
Email: [e-mail] (Business inquiries only)
Graphics provided by: / tofugraphics
#SSBU #WhyNoOnePlays #Ganondorf

[@DefNotStarscream]

As a Ganondorf main it's not about winning or losing it's about sending a message.

[@hozkahilgarri3936]

Absolutely. And for me nothing is more satisfying than finishing off an opponents last stock with the Ganondunk.

[@StedmanFoster]

That's a good one! I'd say it's a message of FEAR. Tricking the opponent into thinking you're way better than them.

[@BuddyBoy-ne1nw]

Committing Ganoncide is the only reason I play as Ganondorf.

[@shinigamimiroku3723]

This reference will always annoy me, but it is the exact reason to play Ganondorf.

[@blackthornthetechno-prophe3697]

It's also about the satisfaction

[@kevingriffith6011]

Gannon knows all he has is power. He's been trying to get wisdom and courage for over 30 years but Link and Zelda just won't give him those pieces of the triforce, that's the whole plot of legend of zelda!

[@miloetripnoend3053]

Was waiting for this one, thx bud!

[@firenze6478]

Actually he had the entire triforce in lttp, had wisdom in albw and tp

[@maiastniki]

@@firenze6478 n still couldn't do shit w it 😂😂

[@firenze6478]

@@maiastniki he didn’t use it in lttp. He got cocky and figured he wouldn’t need it.

[@dhans9662]

@@maiastniki Didnt he literally take over an ENTIRE dimension in alttp?

[@skuba6360]

You see all you need is a third eye to see what your opponent is going to do, then you can play Ganon optimally

[@Zenslayer666]

Exactly, if you can't open your third eye then im sorry but thats a skill issue and you deserve the loses

[@theflashgordon193]

the fact that an anime ability is a requirement to play this character is crazy

[@The0-2DemonKing]

It's a very fun ability :)

[@number3766]

Gannon is the best advantage pusher in the game. Unfortunately, he's rarely in advantage.

[@au_rie]

They still did him dirty asf Also I wish they would have given him the long hair just like in ocarina of time

[@waffleman8053]

So basically, Ganondorf is what happens when you put all your stats in offense.

[@kirby771]

The Rampardos theorem at its finest.

[@rookeyji5177]

Kinda, except ganon doesnt have the most important stat for offense which is SPEED

[@TheKremling]

@@kirby771 A man of culture i see

[@mythmage8231]

More like what happens when you max out everything except speed/mobility.

[@austingoyne3039]

You mean strength.

[@sylas3265]

The float comes from ocarina of time where you face off against Ganondorf at the end he overs above you in that pose while you play dead man’s volley to knock him down. That REALLY would fix him I think

[@nickel7o740]

Didn't PM give Ganon a reflector and a Peach Float?

[@sylas3265]

@@nickel7o740 I have no idea bc as much as I love smash I’ve not been able to add mods to any previous games, sounds appropriate though for the dead mans volley

[@Gillian_FFXIV]

@@nickel7o740 Yes, the devs for that game knew exactly how to treat him.

[@williamwest9204]

@@Gillian_FFXIV no they didnt, he was still one of the worst characters in the game

[@Gillian_FFXIV]

@@williamwest9204 That doesn't mean they didn't give him love or do what they could with him, because they did. It cannot be helped that other characters are inherently just better than him by default no matter what you do, but there is also the case of Phantom Ganon, which is an entirely different character that uses magic instead of his usual brawly fighting style in the Smash games. The developers of PM did more for him than Nintendo ever have, but the official Smash games did give him his best move, Flame Choke, so I give credit where credit is due.

[@togarashi6437]

Ganon in Smash is the Rampardos Theorem at its finest: amazing power, terrible everything else.

[@xXOldCampXx]

One thing I'd like to mention regarding the point you made of Ganon feeling like an echo of Falcon: Sakurai never wants to change a character so much that the playerbase doesn't "recognize" the character anymore which is why Ganon will always be this bad Falcon as long as Sakurai makes Smash games. Ganon was a last minute add on to the Melee roster afaik which is why he ended up the way he did in the first place. If they only added him to Brawl...he probably would have been more like a warlock and less like a drunk tavernbrawler

[@RacingSnails64]

I do love this drunk tavern brawler though... He's unironically my favorite character on the roster and he's always fit me so well. I'd be devasted if they completely axed this moveset. I think what they could do is keep his normals, but change his specials. Even simply giving him a Peach levitate and swapping Warlock Punch for Dead Man's Volley would go so far in making him more mage-like. It'd encompass all forms of Ganon: a brutal, sword-wielding warlock. Or, do what many suggest and give this brawler moveset to F-Zero's Black Shadow; it would fit SO well on that cheesy badass. It only makes sense that the Falcon semi-clone should actually be related to Falcon lol. Then they could go fully original with Ganon. Make him the OP mage everyone desires!

[@giratina6665]

​​@@RacingSnails64 or they could just introduce a second Ganondorf. Like TP Ganondorf for example. I mean we literally have 3 Links and 2 Zeldas. Having one 'traditional' Ganondorf and one that's actually closer to the source material seems not out of question. Thing is, you can't really hype this added fighter up in trailers for the upcoming game. Dunno if that's a reason for the devs not to do that

[@michaelriverside1139]

After Tears of the Kingdom.... Bruh, they really need to reboot his Smash appearance to be more in-line with the Weapon Master / Warlock of that game, as for his old moveset, F-Zero's Deathborn could easily take it as Captain Falcon's Echo, the dude even has a big energy sword and a choke attack in GX's cutscenes!

[@the_bookworm8281]

To kind of illustrate on how bad Ganondorf has it in Ultimate, something to note about SSB4 Ganondorf is that the character was known for having a surprising good amount of representation for a perceived bottom tier character. Adom, Gungnir, Rickles, Ray Kalm... some iconic faces in the Ganondorf community. Gungnir notably got 17th at Umebura Japan Major 2017 while beating Earth, yuzu, and kept. Not great results overall (he is low tier for a reason), but surprisingly good for what he is. In Ultimate, Ganondorf doesn't really have any of this. There is the Nairo vs Light set, but that was a one-time surprise counterpick that happened near the start of the game's life. When that one set is pretty much Ganondorf's only real contribution to the Ultimate metagame, then you know that your character has a lot of problems. There is Rickles, but his results are sparse and frankly not too great for being the only high-level active player for the character. Everyone else mentioned above has been either inactive/semi-active, or entirely dedicated to online play. In other words, Ganondorf (and Mii Swordfighter) is pretty much the only Smash Ultimate character is be virtually irrelevant in high level play throughout the entire duration of Smash Ultimate's life, a fall from even what he did in SSB4.

[@N12015]

And even Swordfighter had its moments on the early meta until people realized how linear its gameplay was, just like Ike.

[@PandaBait28]

Playing against a ganondorf in smash 4 is fun until they start spamming grab

[@manzanito3652]

​@@PandaBait28 Grab is like one of his few arguably "good" moves, pf course they are gonna use it non stop

[@CaseyAQuarles]

The Western world has basically given up on Ganondorf. You gotta go to Japan if you wanna get rocked by some great Dorfs

[@vivelespatat2670]

Wasn't his up-smash in SBB4 disgustingly good ?

[@eljoel89]

Neutral B is a scrub killer, up tilt is even scrubbier, and side B would be useful if you didn't have to make a read to get use out of it. Replace neutral B with a projectile and up tilt with a reflector. Ganon has projectiles in the vast majority of Legend of Zelda games. A reflector and a projectile can force approaches. And how does the bearer of the Triforce of Power not get super armor on their smash attacks?

[@Whodjathink]

That last sentence, that. Literally what the hell. If they must keep his stats as they are, then at least make Ganon have the highest priority so his moves come out on top. You don't clank with Ganon, you lose. Fair and balanced to me 👍

[@SmittyWerbenjagermandragon]

@@Whodjathink its true, if ganon could power through most attacks, it would vastly help him, and stay true to to his power-over-everything archetype. He would be a monster at trading

[@Whodjathink]

@@SmittyWerbenjagermandragon where every trade he always wins lol

[@ironencepersonal9634]

The Neuteal B in the mod comes from Ocarina of Time, where he kinda just flies for basically the entirety of the fight with him. Yes, Sakurai gave the one character who's able to literally fly, the absolute worst recovery in the game. And beside that, in the Zelda games, Ganondorf is actually much more well-rounded than what smash gives him credit for. Some examples (Very, very minor spoilers): -In oracina of Time he has a decent amount of magical attacks that let him fight you from a distance *(Neglecting dead man's volley was a huge mistake).* -In Twilight Princess, shows he is actually quite skilled with a sword. Here, I'd say he's closer to Ike than what we got in Smash. -The Wind Waker shows that he isn't even all that slow; In fact, he's quite fast and is able to deal with an aggressive opponent, quite literally memorizing Link's moveset, becoming completely unhittable (By standard gameplay means) by the end of the fight. Ironically this means that Smash Ganon is not a very good representation of the source material aside form the crazy damage output justified by the Triforce of Power.

[@BainesMkII]

The greatest disservice done to Ganondorf was introducing him in Melee as a Captain Falcon clone, a character moveset that had *zero* connection to his source material. It would have been far better to just skip Melee entirely, leaving his introduction to a later game where they could spend the resources to make an actual "Ganondorf". If they absolutely *had* to have Ganondorf in Melee, then at the very least they could have picked a better base moveset, like Roy or even Link. Thinking about it, Link really could have been a good start for Ganondorf... Make him slower but stronger, do the Marth/Roy deal where Ganondorf gets different sweet spots, replace the bomb graphically with an exploding magic orb, replace the arrow with a magic shot, at least replace the shield model with a magic shield. Then for Brawl they'd have a solid foundation for building a "real" Ganondorf. Ditch the shield entirely while making the sword a bit larger, give one or two of his sword swings a projectile reflector effect, start tweaking those magic projectiles into something more fitting... Continuing in that fashion, by Smash 4 they could have had an actual "Gandondorf".

[@devinbuerger4192]

Ganondorf is actually one of the most played characters at every level except the top and high.

[@JAMllostthegame]

The neutral B float and combo starter up tilt were inspired by P:M's changes to Brawl Ganon. Further, the float itself is based off of him floating in Ocarina of Time in the fight against him.

[@dreamnail]

man i hate how he's still a falcon clone after 4 games. he literally has a million projectiles in oot, can float and whatever no way they couldn't have done anything

[@speedude0164]

A Zelda reference in this Zelda character's moveset? Who would've ever thought of that?

[@interloc1290]

My change suggestions for Ganon focused of 2 aspects I KNOW the dev team cares about based on their own description: FUN & Ease of implementation. I wrote a 2 page paper featuring frame data and graphical aids, had it translated to Japanese and sent it off to my best guess at where the Dev team for Smash Ultimate was head quartered at the time. It was years ago but if I remember correctly the basics were: 1. Air Flame choke doesn’t free fall obviously. 2. Useless volcano Uptilt is replaced by Smash 4 upkick with nerfed damage and buffed speed. 3. Wind box from uptilt is buffed and added to neutral B. 4. Neutral A= a deflector. Just like in Ocarina of time. 5. I did suggest something with airborne warlock Kick too. I think I moved the spike and buffed the little shockwave during the end lag to make approaching it riskier so it could work as landing mix up. The saddest thing is I KNOW these changes worked as I continually saw them rolled out for other characters. Inceniroar GOT exactly what I recommended for his forward B as ac recovery. Kazuya and min min got very similar deflectors to what I recommended for Ganon. It’s not exactly the same but the neutral b wind box changes I wanted were pretty similar in application to sephiroths neutral b. A flashy ,high reward, reasonably safe space control move that covers a lot of space to make up for his lack of ability to chase ppl off stage. I even suggested reusing the cool graphical portal effect from Ganons stage intro to add a VISUAL indicator to the wind box zone without having to draw any new effects. Sadly for me never came to pass. But at least they got rid of Rock Croccing.

[@oddrick-yw3xh]

Funny enough, in a Smash Ultimate mod, called HewDraw Remix, or HDR, that uptilt idea of it being SSB4 usmash but nerfed knockback and damage is exactly what happened for it.

[@ckim213]

The satisfaction of hitting a Doriyah or the dunk keeps me addicted to ganondorf. No matter how much of a disadvantage it is.

[@justocho9090]

That mod having ganon float around for a brief time would be so awesome

[@FlamingBasketballClub]

Ganondorf's biggest problem is his mobility.

[@bossanova3494]

This is a common issue with grapplers in most fighting games, the archetype demands to be low tier, or you just have hulking monsters that are a mountain of health to fight but can one touch you. Potemkin from Guilty Gear AC had ways to vortex into big grabs into "you dont get to play" matches. Fast forward years later, Potemkin in the newest guilty gear STILL can one tap you in a lot of situations, but hes still really really bottom because that's just the nature of slow big body heavy hitters.

[@anothenblue2630]

Here's the huge and very important difference between Smash and other fighting games: there's nowhere to run in the latter and once you're caught, you have to actively try to get away if you're still alive. You know what happens when you let Tager get close? You lose half of your healthbar and then have to deal with oki; if you fail, you're back in his hands. You know what happens when you let Ganondorf get close? You either just move away effortlessly or you get hit and then he has to chase you down again. It doesn't help that traditional heavies like Ganon actually have very terrible survivability. High weight means nothing if you die the moment you're offstage. This issue has been plaguing Smash heavies for a while.

[@darlingdevil1575]

Grapplers are fundamentally unenjoyable to play against. They are either a sack of health that are only a threat if you make a mistake or overbearing to the point of frustration. There is no middle ground when it gets that extreme. Which is a shame, but abominations like Tager, Potekim, and the rest deserve to languish in low tier. I need to memorize combos, and you do more damage because you did a single input at the right time? No. Fuck that.

[@timhiltz6323]

DK is not slow he’s just a big hitbox

[@anothenblue2630]

@@timhiltz6323 and has a terrible recovery that makes him far easier to kill than some of the lightest characters in the game.

[@Jibbie3]

@@anothenblue2630 Well Dk isnt actually that slow tho he has suprisingly good speed and very good airspeed so atleast he is pretty mobile

[@FabschOblivion669]

To me, the only way to fully fix Ganon is to rework him almost entirely. He can still be the slow powerhouse of a character, but maybe we can actually make him a warlock? Fire balls, floats, kinda like his boss fight in Ocarina of Time? P+ gave him a float, and I think Project Legacy did something to the character that drastically changed him, basically turning him into a heavy battle mage character? They could do that but choose not to.

[@stompsalot]

Love this series since being introduced to you through your Robin video; great video addressing Ganon's somewhat conflicting reputation & appreciate how well-thought out & researched these are 😃

[@SmittyWerbenjagermandragon]

what makes a strong ganondorf player is their ability to read their opponnent. You need to be able to know what they are going to do before they do it. so a gannondorf spends their first stock testing the opponent in various situations like: How do they like to tech flamechoke? What's their go to ledge strat? then gannondorf begins to make hard reads and "lock out" some of the opponent's strategies. Nobody wants to get hit by gannondorf, and while the opponent is running out of options, they begin to feel fear. Once fear is achieved, defeat is inevitable . to beat gannondorf, one must succeed in staying unpredictable, which can be hard as you are avoiding all kinds of deadly strikes, while keeping track of your own movements and trying not to let out any info. for gannondorf mains we are the most analytical, get-inside-your-head mofos of all time.

[@TheSylveonSurfer]

I don't play Smash anymore, but I still watch montages and highlights. And let me tell you... It doesn't matter if he's "bad". There isn't a single character more satisfying or hype to play or watch than Ganondorf. You can feel the power behind every hit and that's what makes him the best. If they were to change anything about his specials, it shouldn't be his Neutral, Side, or Down. Those are hype. Give him a Zelda-esque teleport that has an explosion on landing. Allow his sword hits to reflect projectiles. Let his Down Special power through projectiles. In fact, do add something to his Neutral Special, give it a projectile energy ball that he can launch from the punch. There were plenty of missed ops for improving Ganon but he's still the most hype character in the game.

[@blaster915]

I've played ganondorf for years and I think I can sum up my experience why I keep choosing him: no other character makes punishing so satisfying.

[@NA1c158]

Nothing more satisfying than winning with Ganon in Ultimate and making people rage on discord or in irl tourneys. Something about losing to Ganon that reveals the sore losers in the community. Doriyah!

[@BoneTea]

The reason I personally hate fighting low tiers is that they have cheese, but the cheese can be negated by simply not approaching. Thus, trying to play the game normally against them and losing to cheese is frustrating since you know you can win if you just camp. Edit: basically, fighting against them is a lose-lose. You have to camp or face the cheese

[@MandalorianRaider]

One of the current Oregon PR top ten, Major, is a Ganondorf solo main. He's such a fucking treat to watch.

[@NA1c158]

@@BoneTea whatever helps you, bro

[@BoneTea]

@@NA1c158 on top of that, it's like alpharad once said: picking a low tier on the character select screen is the best move you can make. If you lose it's because of your character, if you win you won with a low tier

[@Noitssnotme]

I once got three stocked by a Gannon on wifi then proceeded to rematch and now no longer underestimating him proceeded to three stock him right back.

[@richardlee3679]

Ganon got shafted hard by Sakurai going the extra mile to include him in Melee. It was obviously really great to have him in game, but it lumbered one of Nintendos most iconic villains with a moveset that was stolen from a pilot in a racing game, which was itself made up from thin air. I hope that in the next Smash the inevitable roster reduction is met by existing moveset being completely overhauled to allow characters like Ganon to shine. 😊

[@SonicTheCutehog]

He suffered from Smash 4 Little Mac Syndrome. People thought he was good in the beginning of the game, but players later realized how exploitable their weaknesses were and are now seen as low tiers.

[@BingBangPoe]

I main Ganondorf since Melee. I really don't mind if he is the worst character in all the games (which he is), but I still have so much fun playing him. A shame Nintendo never gave him a major moveset rework like Bowser got (in Ultimate they just literally gave him Ike's Up Smash and Cloud's Down Smash and called it a day). Project M and Ultimate S perfectly captured the essence of what Ganondorf should be in Smash, from a character fantasy perspective (a bulk Spellfighter). yet I really like his semi-clone moveset from Captain Falcon; there is something really satisfying in landing his Down Aerial and Meteoring Smash foes at 0%.

[@nicholasharlan6504]

I think it would be fair to grant him a similar mechanic to peaches float, especially seeing as he is based on his Oot incarnation who literally levitates during his boss battle.

[@Zigzorark]

Ganondorf: Hits hard SSB4 Ganondorf: Hits hard SSBU Ganondorf: Hits hard but with a sword now

[@anothenblue2630]

Meanwhile, Brawl Ganondorf: hits...?

[@Zigzorark]

@@anothenblue2630 imagine hitting something

[@anothenblue2630]

@@Zigzorark *cries in Ivysaur*

[@Zigzorark]

@@anothenblue2630 Imagine not using Flare Blitz

[@anothenblue2630]

@@Zigzorark that's not even a thing in Brawl

[@5inistermm_109]

The fact that you used a gungnir vod from a tamisuma bracket is spot on for representation

[@Erokingu]

Ganon with float is the scariest thing to recover from he need custom move back

[@sirknight69]

all this talk about recovery options has me thinking about Isabelle and her range of recovery options. I'm excited for the day you post "Why NO ONE Plays: Isabelle"

[@reverse_engineered]

Isabella is all bark and no bite. You can get out of almost anything and dance around, giving chip damage, grabbing and throwing, and generally being a nuisance, but it's really quite difficult to kill with Isabelle. Her hard hitting moves don't hit that hard and they are quite slow. At least Villager has things like Bowling Ball and Tree to send people at high damage. What does Isabelle have?

[@sirknight69]

@@reverse_engineered fishing rod upthrow at kill percent, being a nuisance with the buried gyroid, party popper, pocket for projectile heavy characters, a decent nair also her bells jingle while she walks

[@lippyjr5400]

Btw the float is from ocarina of time, one of the most iconic games in history. Ganondorf will float in the air and shoot PROJECTILES (smash devs take note) Towards link that you have to deflect back at him

[@danielferrieri7434]

DORIYAH!

[@DiscordiaCosplay]

Yeah now that I think about it, it's weird that he doesn't fly... considering in OOT he's shown to do so (this is where the float comes from). I guess I get it from a competitive standpoint, but that float mod would have been perfect, the teleport makes some sense too I'm assuming it's a Shadow Ganon reference. Not sure about the flaming kick. But yeah kind of odd he didn't get some sort of short-range hover given the source material.

[@Wario_B]

Ganondorf becoming one of the worst characters in smash history is kinda ironic for a guy that has nearly taken over the world several times in his series Feels like a revenge for all of his crimes lol

[@bananajoe9951]

Make his recovery a giant continuous hitbox.

[@getbn6547]

4:46 What you're about to see is known as "Jaking". I've seen more footage of Jake giving up than I have of him winning

[@Dingus_Mcbingused]

if there ever is a smash 6 i hope they fix ganondorfs mobility issues at least a bit, make him more true to his source material while also keeping true to what makes him fun in smash

[@rayminishi689]

Id rather they give Blood Flacon as the heavier Cpt Falcon moveset and rework Ganon. He's just too different from the source material

[@EmperorPenguin1217]

Honestly his old moveset should be transferred over to Black Shadow

[@Blundabus1337]

Its so weird, when ultimate first came out I got into semifinals in my area as ganondorf, but now hes considered the worst. I loved his side B into down attack, but it seems like people can tech it now.

[@TSaulio]

Simple way to improve Ganon a lot without changing his movesets or stats: Give him a passive where his moves never clash with oponent moves and win all interactions, if he jabs a Falcon Punch, Falcon gets hit, it would still be balanced since for it to take effect you would have to be hit by him in the first place, but it would be a great help to deal with proyectiles and make opponents respect him more, since if both attack at the same time, unless the opponent attack is a sword like attack that outranges Ganon, Ganon would win the interaction. It would definetly give the sensation of Power he is lacking right now. (In a Ganon Ditto obviously would clash with himself and I didn't mean he ignores super armor, super armor attacks would still win the interaction)

[@Whodjathink]

I have also been saying this, giving Ganondorf the highest priority would be fitting of him being the holder of POWER.

[@zachstarattack7320]

Here’s the thing with low tier slow characters. Namely Dr. Mario and Gannon Dorf, they have clear weaknesses and strengths but something that is so bullshit is having a bad recovery. All of the super heavy weights and slow characters should have an amazing recovery like seph or something

[@movezig5]

Ganondorf floats in Ocarina of Time. He also has a projectile in Ocarina of Time, which the Smash devs have chosen to ignore.

[@faceless1123]

He would benefit greatly from a fast moving chargeable projectiles that you can mix up like Samus. And a less trash recovery

[@jmurray1110]

At the very least a reflector The deadman’s volley can be both and that’s why it’s so popular an option

[@faceless1123]

True very true

[@DaminRSW]

god the hyrule warriors designs for some zelda characters were absolutely tops one of the best designs for ganondorf for sure

[@vincentazagba9372]

Yeah we were robbed for not have hyrule warriors ganondorf design

[@ImDJDon]

6:22 hey that's me LOL

[@arliss35]

A friend and I play online often since we live so far from each other. He mains ganondorf and I play around with a few people, mostly isabelle and dark pit. We tend to go pretty even when we play a bunch of matches, even though my characters tend to be light as a feather. He can definitely take me out quick if I'm not careful, but I can screw him out of stocks like nothing if I just take my time. It does make for fun matches though.

[@reverse_engineered]

My buddy and I play Ganon vs Jigglypuff. It's the ultimate quick game because Ganon can smash the hell out of Jigglypuff with just a few hits, but Jigglypuff can easily combo, train, edge guard, and gimp Ganon. Since both have relatively slow movement and have to approach to attack, it cancels out some of the worst parts of Ganon and makes him viable in the matchup. It's great fun.

[@FelipeKana1]

That new moveset they made for him in the mods... it is just sorely missing a cloak reflector move, like Mario's. Something he has in OoT just like the float. Could even be tricky input move like Kazuya's reflector (but available on air/float). Off course, then he would be an unparalleled extragod tier.... ... AS IT SHOULD

[@Steambull1]

When I played the Wii-U one for a bit, I almost immediately mained Ganondorf (with Charizard and Bowser as pockets). Learned later that he's crap, but I never care about tier lists in that regard. I play the character whose design and moves I like, that's it. In fact, it pisses me off if my character is "too strong" (like what happened to M. Bison in SFV). In those cases, 100% of people assume I chose the character because of the strength.

[@Sharkeisha1]

That moded float would make Ganon unstoppable

[@Sharkeisha1]

Kind of like the power of the racoon!

[@kylespevak6781]

1:50 Since part of competing is mind games, it allows a chance for anything to happen. You can do so many things that aren't tied to frame data and damage output to trip up your opponent. Even AI is beatable since they usually go for the most optimal move in any situation

[@stephen5070]

Ganondorf needs to use his cape to reflect projectiles, small super armor around his joints during a dash attack, life steal healing effect after a stock knockout.

[@izenheimreborn6390]

The big thing about Ganondorf being unpopular is that his representation doesn't refrence his material. His debut game as Ganondorf, half of his fight is him flying around and shooting lightning balls at you, then in Wind Waker, his second game, he has really high jumps and wields two swords at an alarming and fast rate. Twilight Princess has him fly around shooting lightning balls again, before landing on the ground and engaging in an epic 1v1 duel with the sword of the sages (a large, two handed sword similar to the Master Sword) then in Tears of the Kingdom, his most recent appearance, he jumps great distances, launches necrotic tendrils, orbs, liquids and gasses, while also using a bow, katana, naginata and a tetsubo club to great effect, transforms himself into more powerful forms like its freaking Dragon Ball, summons. Absolutely nothing cool that he does in the games are not even refrenced in his kit at all. Other than appearance he doesn't represent Ganondorf at all. Most modders give him a float as it better represents him in general

[@SgtSprinkles]

I've long said that the number one buff Ganon needs to be even considered viable is Wizard's Foot negating (most) projectiles rather than clashing, aside from a fully charged power shot (I think a clash there is fine). Unless you're a parry savant, Ganon is the only character in the game with absolutely 0 options to deal with projectiles. Everyone else has a projectile, reflect, or counter to help counter ranged attacks in neutral but Ganon has to rely entirely on bluffs and gambles to get past camp tactics, or just pray that whatever zoners they play like to go aggro. Given his overall design and the move's already high kill potential, I think adding a reflect property would be overkill, but Ganon hurtling his entire body forwards with dark energy engulfing him only to clink with a little pellet (and get punished) just doesn't make sense and pretty much invalidates it completely as a burst option against ranged characters aside from roll reads. Even with a negation, if he's far enough away or starts the move slightly late then the opponent can still shield, etc. But Ganons could burst in and punish start ups with keen enough sense, rather than deliver themselves on a plate to a zoner for a meaty F smash. So everyone's game plans essentially stay intact and no big reworks needed but projectile spam wouldn't be a completely free tactic against him.

[@Zeoinx69]

I like ganondorf personally. I know I will never grow "perfect" as him, he offers a challenge as a player using him any ALL levels of play, but most off all, its a barrier to entry for players who have to fight Ganondorf. If you as a player cant beat a ganondorf, (pretty consistently mind you) you might wanna go back to training mode, and single player to step up your game before returning to PVP smash. And Honestly, teaching players that lesson as ganon is pretty damn satisfying. Cause every hit on them, you feel the hype. You get that perfect "power fantasy" of walking tank and crushing your enemies below your big boot spike. You grab the enemy in flame choke and like "Look kid, you just arnt good enough yet" and proceed to down attack and up combo him to death. you run into the people with spam multi hits, as you charge a warlock punch and are just like "Nah bro, your weak ass multi hit bs is OUT OF HERE!!!!!!" and pow, enemy goes flying.

[@clay2889]

As a Ganondorf main (only in wifi), this video actually taught me a lot about some things I suspected but wasn’t sure about. Also that Ganon mod where he floats and can teleport looked SO fun. If only thats what Ganon actually was like..

[@number3766]

A certain Bumble Fumble said it best. Ganondorf is the smash bros bully. When he's winning, he steamrolls and snowballs. He can push advantage and pull a win out of thin air given the chance. Problem is, if he's neutral or losing, he's essentially a heavy combo sandbag, unable to retaliate or counter his opponent. He's an aggressive character that is unbeatable while at an advantage.....but no way to engage the opponent or create openings without your opponent messing up. His weaknesses are very pronounced and easy to exploit, requiring you to play defensively, something gannon isn't built for. Unless you're reading your opponent like a book, it's gonna be near impossible win.

[@mushroomanjcc1954]

I'm assuming the Ganondorf float is a reference to the tennis match in Oot

[@NavidSharifipour]

I did a spot take when I heard the words “good” and “wifi” in the same sentence in a smash bros video

[@brandondennis7527]

I would love is down b could have it's direction chosen like Sephiroth Up B. It would give him a recovery option and an approach option while still maintaining his moveset.

[@chimericalical]

Flying nuetral B is inspired from when you fight him in OoT and he flies.

[@armorbearer9702]

I like the idea of giving Ganon Peach and Daisy's float. If Warlock Punch was changed to be like DK's Giant Punch, Ganon would be a lot more effective.

[@SolidMetal8718]

In Smash 4, Ganoncides would take the VICTIM's stock first before Ganon's, which was reasonable given the opponent was getting dragged down hitting the blast-zone and off-screen area first. And Bowser's Side B would take the stocks of himself and the opponent at the same time (unless the opponent is mashing buttons, you could snap free, back then zone stages even on For Glory 1 on 1 had pillar walls dragging all the way down off the blast zone, granting the chance to wall-jump aid help yourself further if your character had poor recovery like Little Mac or Dr Mario and etc). Can't remember if other few characters had similar moves that would risk SD'ind while taking your opponent with yourself now on Smash 4 on a single Special move that would do its own thing. These attacks would be hella clutch back then if you were on your last stock and caught your opponent lacking trying to edgeguard, specially Ganoncides, they were very hype and disrespectful as to do them on someone that failed to recover properly and went off the stage to catch the for a Ganoncide anyways or do a good ol' head crushing stomp spike. But all SD like attacks in Smash Ultimate kills the attacker first even if they really AND the victim gets to snap free first if they don't have much damage on themselves by default. Some cases if your victim has plenty of damage they'll be unable to snap free and die almost as fast as the main attacker, but the attacker will 100% die first still, basically making the move worth doing only if you have 2 stocks on reserve. So you either are doing cery good and make it even more disrespectful by stealing a whole stock of your opponent each time you pull it off as long as you know they won't be able to recover. PS: Don't do this to Sora unless his damage is too high past 120% otherwise hell be able to move and start flying back the stage and that sucks. Ganon on Ultimate... eeeh... is too edgeguard oriented now, despite being a lot faster and hitting harder. I don't see Ganons taking aggressive high risks like the Ganons of Smash 4 used to take, they wait a lot in place, don't go off stage as much unless is a too easy spike otherwise they'll too be too timid and hold a Forward Smash on the edges and 97% of the time fail to hit it. Also I never see in Ultimate a Ganon player that gets creative with the Side B on stage, they usually just try to spam it or immediately down-tilt/jab when they could be doing a lot more rewarding things like doing tech-chase like a hop-2-spike into an aerial short combo which honestly is always very VERY disrespectful doing this in either Smash 4 or Ultimate still (I still do it). Catching someone mid-recovery from any height off stage with a Ganoncide... you're basically sending a message on screen at that point. This is a superior Ganon fron the Smash 4 one, faster and a lot stronger too plus his moveset is improved in range (Smash attacks now has long-wide range reaching sword) yet players that play him don't do much with these options, choose to have Battlefield/Small Battlefield stage for preferred settings and half the time hide under platform half the time and edge guard the whole match taking cheap shots with hit an runs or spamming N-airs, it's honestly disappointing. Hardly ever I see an Ultimate Ganon doing crazy risk stuff and those are truly unstoppable unless they get too overwhelmed with fast characters (Mythra,Sonic, etc).

[@utmostkibbles9125]

I with they'd bring back Brawl's ganoncide and also give him Rob's recovery. To be fair, he can fly canonically.

[@mathewhaight]

Perhaps some more nuanced tweaks would fix the issues, but personally I think just a little bit of armor on certain moves would go a long way to dealing with most of the cast. Also I have no idea how warlock punch is still not cancelable like any other charge move in the game. It would go a long way for his mix-up.

[@samuelbeall3787]

So what I'm hearing is that Ganon with bunny ears would be unstoppable.

[@icymiles]

great video. thought "why no one plays mewtwo" would make for a good video too :]

[@reverse_engineered]

Very similar situation. Mewtwo is quite powerful, but so slow and predictable in movement that they can be dodged and comboed endlessly.

[@icymiles]

@@reverse_engineered I see. his very bad hurtboxes don't help either

[@androkguz]

Could a character like Ganondorf be fair if it had like... absolute armor? Like, you can't even knock him back until you reach a certain percentage? Maybe make his attacks a bit slower. Make him feel like a Zelda boss. I would like to see a character that has a perfectly predictable recovery but is simply unflinching while recovering. Don't know if there's any combination of weight, power and speed that would make that fair

[@keeeot]

Hear me out, what if Gannon had a gimmick where ALL of his moves had super armor

[@nicolas.p1750]

They need to update Ganondorf, his model is amazing in TOTK, also his arsenal, and why not move set.

[@Buzterer]

Intead of warlock punch, he should have the attack from the tennis match back in ocarina

[@au_rie]

There should be two versions of him Like an echo character that has everything time skip Ganondorf has in oot and the one we have atm Should also use his two designs properly (Character designs) since he does look different after time skip They just kind of mixed both versions up I would love to have him with long hair and glowing eyes tbh Tbh I’m just happy they had chosen his oot design because it’s my favourite

[@OniiChanPls]

Bro there are literal moves that beat Ganon as a whole. Cloud Bair. Diddy banana. Pikachu t jolt. Let's just give Ganon those moves.

[@deebonash4487]

If Ganon had melee recovery where you down b and can jump. He’d be top tier and balanced as well as falcon

[@Ven-zg3fj]

Love the Iron Man 2 reference. Long Live Justin Hammer. Truly one of the inventors of all time.

[@JonnyJayKhan]

He needs the floating neutral B for sure, he should also have at least one lightning bolt attack because that's what he's known for but I don't think that would make sense for his archetype

[@anachronity9002]

12:28 In most of his boss fights as humanoid ganondorf, he generally fights by using swords, energy balls, and floating/teleporting. The floating in particular is something he does in his Ocarina of Time fight.

[@FelipeKana1]

To have Ganon with good mobility and able to win neutral... is how they end up making the double pithra. One hits like ganon, the other win neutral like palu+sheik or joker

[@Koppu1doragon]

Ganondorf's main issue is that he's slow Captain Falcon, they should give him an alt where he you know actually has his own move set.

[@Sygmac]

If they gives reals Ganon abilitys in OoT (floating, sworduser and projectiles) he's gonna be S+ tier

[@alfieho-br1cw]

until the calamity ganon spirit battle

[@tardissins7512]

There really is no reason why flame choke should be sending into special fall at this point. Every sideways dash move like that, even less laggy ones, don’t do that anymore (illusions, Alola whip, haymaker, etc.) with the sole exceptions of raptor boost (which has the same issue tbh) and wolf flash (which is remedied by Wolf’s great up special). Even moves which justifiably should send into special fall like din’s fire don’t anymore. That one change would improve his viability so much that it feels like he’s deliberately designed to be bad.

[@kingkirby1394]

As a DDD player I always feel bad for ganons because if he had a solid recovery, and bait setups akin to gordos he wouldn’t be amazing (cuz we certainly aren’t) but hella deadly in the right hands

[@stryvedp]

Just subscribed, like this series bro. Been playing the game for years and still have learned one or two things from each video. Whether it be concepts or techs for certain characters. I think it is awesome your giving some shadowed characters the spotlight. Can you do duck hunt?

[@lukesmith720]

What Ganondorf lakes in speed, he makes it up with power and strength

[@zigaudrey]

Since his tier list placement in Brawl, I have pity for Ganondorf. He is a slower and powerful version of Captain Falcon and thus, make him punishable. It is proven that a bait-and-switch play style fit better Ganondorf.We have main to prove Ganondorf doesn't always lose like Vermanubis. While Captain Falcon is mean for aggressive play, Ganondorf is more in a mental game. To make it worst, players are mad that he is still a Captain Falcon's clone for 20 years and little reference from his home series. As someone who didn't play Zelda, I was surprised. 13:13

[@HairEEck]

I really hope they buff him enough one day for him to be viable

[@keagandavidson4250]

It’s not about winning it’s about trying to hit a cool warlock punch.

[@lol-cy8nr]

As a Ganondorf main, I just like swinging big swords.

[@superfreddybrosespanol6781]

If you really think no one plays Ganonforf, then I don't know what kind of weird planet your living on?

[@Aether52]

Why can't we have Hyrule Warriors Ganondorf in game Dx. His combo structure would be nothing like Bayo's since he goes L/R on them in HW. Up the mobility, his burst options would be able to stuff most walls, and make the trade off being that his vertical recovery is a bit sus but horizontal is phenominal. Course this could easily make him busted, but it'd be unique to see a lance user in game and would be completely different from what we have now.

[@Blizz3112]

Its extra funny because I personally feel in Adventure Mode, Ganon is the easiest boss as well, with most of his moves either easy to block or easy to jump over... XD

[@flipflubduck]

There's no denying that this character sucks but he is undeniably fun to play. Ganon dittos are also the most hype dittos in the game I'll die on this hill

[@austingoyne3039]

The fun is in him being garbage and still able to obliterate people. He’s the joke character of Smash and it’s too late to undo I fear. My boy Ganon will never be a legit character. 😢

[@joshdamighty]

Ganon players want everyone to believe he's the worst. Because when Ganon beats people who say that, they can't recover. Ganondorf is a statement of power, the true flex, and how you establish true dominance.

[@twotamatos]

I wish custom moves where still a thing would be great if they gave him a Zelda/mewtwo custom up Special and Gannon in doubles is stupid good thoe imo

[@twotamatos]

Hah u added in the modding community giving him custom moves

[@jamesmkay]

Ganon would shoot up a tier or two if side special didn’t send you into free fall

[@mayomonkey5]

Honestly you really can’t do anything against the in built lag on wifi

[@Blargleflakes]

Ah yes, the tragic tale of smash ganondorf 🥲

[@Jimbolinks]

You can NEVER call a ganon match boring.

[@jordyshep6725]

What if Ganon had super armor with flame choke and wizard's foot?