Why Not to Move to Japan as a Gay Person

[@TokyoBTM]

Hi Tokyo Tops! Meng here, thanks for watching this video. I went through some self-reflection after posting this video. I just want to let you guys know that most people I encountered so far in Japan, are super kind and nice to me. I was frustrated by people blocking me on apps, so I was a bit too emotional when I recorded this video. Narrow-minded people are all over the world, and they don't represent the majority here in Japan. I read all of your comments and realized that I have delivered a false image of Japan to some of you who never visited Japan or Tokyo. The fact is that I LOVE JAPAN, I LOVE MY LIFE HERE, I THINK JAPANESE GUYS ARE KIND&HOT! That's why I chose to be here. There can be some frustration in life, but sometimes it's not because of Japan. It's my own action. I haven't been actively doing my best to make friends, find love, etc. Sometimes I feel lonely, so it's easier to blame Japan than myself. I hope you guys can understand. Have a nice week❤end

[@jankeroolz]

I really empathize with you, Meng. One day your prince will come 😊❤️

[@patrickturner136]

Don't be too hard on yourself either. It is okay to be frustrated sometimes, you're doing your best! It doesn't have to be just Japan or Meng, it can be a little of both and that's okay.

[@niklasn9774]

Don't worry about it. It's hard to even handedly present your frustrations or criticisms while at the same time communicating in a non-bitter/non-hostile way. You did well.

[@DavidRodriguez-gl5pn]

Reflection is just as important as how you felt when you said what you did. I think both view are just as valid

[@GabuatMicko]

Kind & Hot. Perfect combination

[@glowrillaz]

Thanks for this! I’ve never considered japan as my dream destination, but I didn’t really have a reason for that lol. I live in Saudi Arabia and it’s a really really terrifying place for lgbtq people, nothing scares me more than people around me finding out that im gay, I just want to graduate and get out of this hell asap.

[@TokyoBTM]

I want to send you a lot of love and will pray for your safety. ❤️

[@stevenbabe4666]

I hope you can leave and find a better place to be able to live as a gay man. It is crazy in many Muslim countries gays still live in fear for their lives. I went to boarding school in England with many middle eastern guys. Many were playing around with each other and thought nothing of it. As long as you were at the top you were not gay. They would tell me that since you can’t be with a woman till marriage that guys will play with each other. You also see in countries like Iraq and Afghanistan where war leaders keep young boys for sex. It is just insane the way the world works. I pray for your safety and stay strong.

[@vmvm949]

but they SWEAR SA its a modern good place to live lol

[@thrillhouse4151]

Every decade a generation ceases to exist and becomes a ghost of the past, it takes time but change will come.

[@davedawiz7171]

But that’s the same here in the US. It’s suppose to be open and LGBTQ friendly, but there are also anti LGBTQ hate crimes here in New York. Straight people will still say stuff, spit, hit and a few instances, try to kill you. Don’t believe in the media.. there are people that hate gays everywhere.

[@davidwoodford1814]

Meng is so attractive! Can’t understand why he’s not taken already. Such a shame. Educated, fun and engaging.

[@wolfegod]

I was so guilty of romanticising Japan but my feet is more firmly planted on the ground these days. After hearing the almost crushing lonliness from my straight friends who have worked there as language teachers, the veil is off. It must be even harder to be a gay foreigner there. Chin up both of you! All you need is to find one who is willing to date and settle down :3

[@kitsune87]

Amen on everything!!! But at the same time, as you said, I'm not afraid of being beaten up or worse because of being gay in Japan. I can safely walk around at midnight even in the "dodgy" areas. That for me is such a big big plus!

[@TokyoBTM]

quoting Andrew" it's kinda amazing" 😉🌈🌈

[@iancumil8484]

Absolutely curious about the ‘Japanese Only’ preference. Would you dwell into this question with other Japanese guys who are willing to share their insights? It’s an interesting social behaviour in Japan.

[@yangtzeling7468]

And you are hoping for the truth ?

[@iancumil8484]

@@yangtzeling7468 not a “truth” per se but additional view points. Andrew shared his views on why the ‘Japanese Only’ preference - from his perspectives. Curious to know from Japanese gay guys’ perspectives, what would that be.

[@yangtzeling7468]

@@iancumil8484 My opinion is elitism. Which no one will admit. Many bathhouses / saunas had “ no foreigners “ sign too. Some even had age limit , and some were only exclusive to athletic types. Japan is highly discriminating. It’s just their culture.

[@iancumil8484]

@@yangtzeling7468 you’re (1) speaking as a Japanese? (2) referring to preferences for casual hook ups or in relationships?

[@yangtzeling7468]

@@iancumil8484 I’m not a Japanese. And no Japanese will admit to racism. Japanese is all about polite facade. I think generally gay Japanese men do not have relationship. It’s mostly discreet hook ups in bars / bathhouses. As for racism , I think Andrew & Meng have covered that.

[@halonoc]

One of the most down to earth and honest videos about Japan in general. Personally experience every single one of these issues. First you are confused, then angry, then resigned. It’s an amazing country. But good to talk about the fine print as you said.

[@EX1515]

Thanking for sharing this! I’m gay and I lived in Japan for 5 years. During that time I had a boyfriend who was Japanese and he was also my first boyfriend. I was navigating multiple experiences for myself: having my first relationship with another man and having that relationship in Japan. You guys brought up some points I’ve experienced. This was a learning experience for me and I always tried to be open minded but I won’t lie there were times I felt tired in our relationship for wanting more. I still loved him and we still had fun together during my time in Japan. Yeah dating and relationships in Japan will be different from other countries.

[@meluvcats]

When it comes to relationships, I can understand why there's a "Japanese only" preference and Andrew summed it up nicely with the ease of communication and understanding of one's culture which is common almost anywhere else. On top of that, I'd wager that most Japanese know deep down that their language actually hinders them from "expanding" outwards which is why I almost always see fear flashing across their faces when I start speaking to them in English. It could also be a sense of embarrassment as they simply do not want to cause any inconvenience, in other words, mendokusai.

[@Incognito-fk5jp]

"most Japanese know deep down that their language actually hinders them from "expanding" outwards which is why I almost always see fear flashing across their faces when I start speaking to them in English. It could also be a sense of embarrassment" I'm sorry wtf??

[@narutojf93]

@@Incognito-fk5jp I don't know what they mean with the first part but the second part I do. Even though Japanese people study English for 6 years in school they aren't confident in speaking English at all so whenever someone tries to speak to them in English they immediately tense up and feel embarrassed cuz they don't know how to communicate in English, even if they understand what the person is saying that to them. At least, this is what I've gotten from different interviews of Japanese people on KZbin.

[@vertigo2894]

Nonsense, it's coming from a racist place.

[@stewartdorward6526]

I agree that there is a big difference between coming to Japan as a student or JET or similar when social interaction is easier and coming to work when you are older - people have families and established lives and don’t necessarily have room in their lives for any new person. But, I’m not sure that is Japan specific.

[@manny1456]

First: Meng-senpai's shirt is FIRE. The idea of "love", "friendship" and what a relationship is, is just very different in Japan. The problem is with most Japanese people I meet, be it for friends or lovers, is hard to get to know them because of the "tatemae". It really makes it hard to keep an interest. I always feel like I am constantly having to make so much effort to keep any sort of communication. I would say there is a difference between Japanese people who have never left Japan and those who have lived or traveled abroad a lot. The second group approaches things very differently. Side Note: Ossan's Love is HILARIOUS. Highly recommend.

[@pkgaming2962]

What Andrew said about making Japanese friends who like foreigners, but don't like their own country, is interesting because I kind of got that feeling watching other foreign KZbinrs in Japan. Foreigners either just have other foreign friends or if they do have a Japanese friend, that friend doesn't act like your "typical Japanese person" or seems to already have an interest in foreigners and foreign culture as opposed to their own. And I guess that makes sense. I mean, I'm sure plenty of foreigners want to go to Japan and make Japanese friends because they're tired of their own country and want to experience something different.

[@Niiopii]

As gay people I truly believe that we have the freedom to design the blueprint of what our relationships are supposed to look like cause more times than not we project heteronormative expectations onto our relationships when we shouldn’t be cause it’s not a heterosexual relationship.

[@jumpingoverlakes]

So true! I think they are referring to the cultural implications on relationships in Japan, though, not heteronormativity.

[@williamf4544]

Wow that is so profound - to the point of being life chaging to those who understand and take on board what you mean - thank you for those very wise words

[@Nightbird.]

@Niiopii "Heteronormative"? Not at all. Love is love. And that dynamic is the same for Hetero's and Homo's. Just like we all have the same color of blood. And whether you are gay or straight it doesn't change that dynamic. Love and being in a relationship has never belonged to just one sexuality. That is your own personal bias speaking. Yes..we can all "create" whatever relationship we want. But being in love and in a relationship at it's core is the same for everyone. You love someone and want to be with them and want to share your life with them. That crosses all cultures, ethnicities and sexualities. Usually..when people use the "Heteronormative" term..it's because they want to have sex with multiple people..not be monogamous..and throw in a lot of sexual fetishes into their relationship. Nothing wrong with that if you have a willing partner. But that is NOT what most people want in a relationship..and you shouldn't use the term "Heteronormative" as an excuse for wanting that or implying that LGBT+ people love differently or have different types of relationships just because they are LGBT+. Doing that only gives power to those who say we don't deserve equality because we are different from them..when we aren't different from them at all. The body parts may be different..but the love, feelings and emotions are the same. And THAT'S what counts in the end.

[@DavidCruickshank]

@@Nightbird. "Heteronormative" definitely exists. The most common example being Tops and Bottoms. Men penetrate Women and thus since Tops penetrate Bottoms the Tops are coded as the "Man" in the relationship being strong, masculine and dominate and the Bottoms are coded as the "Women" in the relationship being weak, effeminate and submissive. There are many other examples of Queer people adopting the relationship roles of "Man" and "Women" subconsciously or not to better fit into society.

[@anpalang2899]

​@Nightbird. But we are. We already are different and will always be. It would be devastating to ignore how we were discriminated across the globe.

[@raelisjay]

This video speaks volumes to me. Being rejected on apps constantly by Japanese guys in a very "indirect" manner has conditioned my mind that THIS is how it really is here and I should accept it because I'm an outsider and I don't have the privilege to complain (at least that's how I think now). Another point I truly agree with is how Japanese people in general hate hassles or as they call 面倒くさい. I think most gays who are exposed to international/western cultures appear to be a bother to them because as Andrew said they would have to adapt to certain things they are not used to thus causing some hassle to them. And yes, please dont let us ask for ketchup. They can just give a sachet or make a service counter where we can get some lol. By the way, love what you both are wearing in the video. ❤️❤️❤️

[@samtan4729]

This is one of the best videos you've put out to date. Frank, thoughtful and clear eyed.

[@nigelbond4056]

Meng really can’t look sad, his smile is ever-present. And if he kissed me in the street (or anywhere else for that matter) I’d count myself incredibly lucky. If Japanese guys don’t appreciate Mengnificent it’s really there loss. Smother me baby! 🤣🤣🤣❤️💋

[@gustavolombardi115]

Ok so what I think about this video is: you get into a perspective in wich you're only seeing what's ahead of you, defined in your experience or your friend's, but I've had a total different vision of this since I've got a Japanesese boyfriend and I'm Brazilian, if I would've done a video like yours I would have a totally different concept to show, so I think when you try to say something as deep as in "why you should NOT do something" you should think that not anybody is you, not everybody acts or look like any of you, you're all just bringing everybody into YOURS daily difficulties, if you want to bring something that's actually worth for the people to watch then bring people offf your social bubble and let them t4ll us what they're thinking, instead of giving us a couple or so experiences y'all had, that's not even fair!

[@vertigo2894]

You are being ridiculous. This is a common theme about Japanese culture. You got lucky with your boyfriend, that's it. They are being honest and their experiences are pretty common. Also, the race matters. There are different levels of racism in Japan towards different races. White looking like you wont experience the same thing as a black person.

[@miguelmagallanes4821]

Really NICE segment. I like how honest and balanced you guys present these issues. Hugs to Meng, I know that feeling of being exhausted of always taking the initiative.

[@flojj]

Thank you for your honesty guys, it was really refreshing and relatable. When I did live in Japan for a couple of years, because of all the reasons you guys pointed out, I eventually had a feeling of not being free anymore, as I was always thinking too much about things (like "omg I think I can't go to that place"; "what will people think when they'll see my tattoos?"; "can I come out with these people?" and so on). I ended up with a feeling of powerlessness, because you know you can't change anything being a foreigner. So yeah, I guess you just have to accept it and move on. Anyway it was a great video as always, sending you hugs and kisses xxxx

[@Hazlius]

To summarize: 1: Japan won’t date you 2: Japan sees you as a chore 3: Japan won’t be friends with you 4: Japan will give you weird looks 5: Japan won’t let you go to bars BONUS: Japan will slap ketchup out of your hand Y’all Japan needs therapy

[@TokyoBTM]

LMAO, but again we love Japan tho, these are just my personal little rant. I bet if someone come in like a muscular beautiful god (top), the story would be different😉 And to be honest, all very small things. People are nice and polite.

[@GabuatMicko]

@@TokyoBTM this is probably Meng who replied😆💖

[@kevin-jojo]

6: Japan won't physically hurt you

[@victorj.2693]

@@TokyoBTM omg “all very small things”. 🤦🏾‍♂️🤷🏾‍♂️🥷🏾 you killed the whole foreigners Japanese dream!

[@davidhawley1132]

None of the above are LGBT specific.

[@travelingworldwide01]

I’m Japanese but, I don’t get a response either. A lot of Japanese aren’t serious about relationship and most just want to sleep around. Japanese have a slow responsive rate and it takes forever to get a reply. What really makes me upset the most is most Japanese people don’t even care about same sex marriage because like I said above most just want hook ups. If you want true love I think it’ll be challenging. It’s not about race because I’m over 30 and I am still single. I’ve been searching but no one wants me lol.

[@TokyoBTM]

Thanks for sharing. Glad to hear from a Japanese native perspective. Hope we all find love one day❤️

[@Geodtz]

Aww, I want you.

[@shibba2517]

I'm sorry for ya Maybe you would look for someone from the west?...Or east for you cause USA is east from Japan

[@DaughterofMother1]

Maybe move to the neighboring county south Korea?heard it's more gay friendly than Japan

[@travelingworldwide01]

@@Geodtz That’s so sweet of you

[@Schattensephiroth]

Honestly, living in Japan I totally agreed with your views. That was a good 20mins of spitting facts. Even if you like Japan, there are parts about this country that are different and make it hard to live here. Very good video! PS: Meng, you could write them a note about the ketchup, even UberEats offers you that kind of communication ;D

[@PrinceTalmit]

10:20 I feel you on this! It’s not just Japanese friends - I have many friends who are extremely passive when it comes to socialising. I’m the one in my friend group who always has to suggest doing something or invite people to meet up. Like if I don’t initiate it didn’t happen. I low-key get annoyed/tired of always having to do the leg work, but at the same time I’m resigned to it. Tl;dr: Lazy friends exist everywhere unfortunately 😢

[@tennis501tennis501]

Having lived in Japan for about 17 years, I can affirm this video has a lot of truths to consider

[@HaohmaruHL]

Japan is basically The Rejection Game played on Hard Mode. In every aspect actually, not just this topic. Having Rejection Sensitive Dysphoria while living in japan is a cherry on top. The pain never stops

[@senticles]

Interesting discussion. It would be good to have a third, Japanese person to bounce things off to help clarify some speculations.

[@sasori7833]

here's a clever man ! without the japanese point of view, it's only a subjective point of view from foreigners.

[@kyoohki]

I'm watching this video again in the new year (2022) and in regards to the ketchup situation, California no longer requires restaurants to provide single-use utensils and condiments unless they are requested. I think it's a way to curb waste, which I support, but now we can't expect our fries to come with ketchup now. The more you know, haha.

[@lonman80]

Your channel truly gives me SUCH life you guys. You just don’t even know lol. Your videos give me just what I need until Japan finally opens up for the rest of us.

[@yse2010]

You said ketchup? Ya, Malaysia is next. Fast food places used to give both chilli and ketchup sauce but now, they assume you take chilli, and you have to leave a delivery note for ketchup or ask at the counter yourself. Sometimes they even overlook your note.

[@michelvandepol1485]

This is a good video> Ppeople should be aware of big cultural differences. I lived in Indonesia for years, that took time to get used to their customs

[@stepheng9607]

Fascinating. Many thanks. We were recently in Japan and were rather surprised how difficult it seemed to be to find a restaurant in Tokyo. Everyone we visited all said they were fully booked. Eventually we visited one in a department store and was served by a Japanese person that was actually studying in the UK and was back home for a visit

[@EdsWorld56]

excellent video guys, so informative and thought provoking. Japan seems in many ways so advanced, in others so conservative and traditional

[@robbystillwagon5716]

I'm moving to Japan in December for work (as soon as the Visa office opens) and this was super helpful. Thanks for posting!

[@gemmel3197]

You just scratched off Japan from my bucket list of places to visit. Thanks plenty of other places to see.

[@HeDoesWhatHeWants]

I do wonder if region plays a huge role in this. I’ve never spent more than 24 hours in Tokyo, but I have lived in Nagoya, Shiga, Kyoto and am now working in Nagasaki. In all of those places I’ve made a lot of friends who often call me out of the blue to hang out. Now, relationships are a whole nother thing and I agree how hard being LGBTQ+ is in Japan plays a role in how they see themselves and their lives.

[@TokyoBTM]

Probably true, i made a lot of friends when I lived in Hokkaido haha

[@marcuspeck963]

Good point. It's like judging French people based on experiences of Paris only, or the US from New York.

[@Jumpoable]

Oh yeah, sorry but it's just cold, soulless, robotic Tokyo. Kansai, Kyushu, small towns... MUCH more warmer people. Even posh Kyoto you will find friendlier people willing to reach out.

[@kitsune87]

Osaka is the exactly the same as described in the video. Maybe it's not "them", it's "us" 😂

[@glennaa11]

this is a really interesting discussion that actually seems to be universal to a lot of places - not only Japan.

[@blaeckingceorl4161]

I changed a lot my expectation about Japan through time. In the past I really wanted to visit it and I thouhgt it would be a dream maybe live there, but today I think I have almost 0% expectation. Today I see the idea of go to Japan a little bit like what you said about "the porpose for being in Japan. I'm going as studant, for work, as turist....". Today I think that you should just focus on that 'cause you're never be integrated in their mean and forget about everything else.

[@lee_akira]

can we just have our BL fairytale? 🥺, all these obstacles sound exhausting 😩 hahaha. but thank you for the heads-up, I'll go now with more realistic expectations. ❤

[@MDonuT-of7px]

I'm planning on going to Japan in september for an exchange semester. Thank you so much for this video! I am a very cliche romantic, love to hold hands and such, and I'm happy to know not to do that. I promised myself that I wouldn't be the cliche "gaijin" who ruins peoples vibes and stuff, so I take these videos very seriously as ways to make sure I don't accidentally get known as "Oh yeah Logan Paul but he likes guys". I hope I get to meet lots of cute guys! Love from Germany!

[@Nightbird.]

So basically..you are happy to go to another country where you can't be yourself for fear of being called names and ruining other peoples "vibes and stuff"? Please get some self esteem and love yourself a little more please.

[@bradleyf3224]

Making 'quality' friendships IS work & challenging. I am one part of a married gay couple. Since becoming 'empty nesters' in our 50s we find it very challenging to make new friends...it is our annual and ongoing goal...people are so very busy with their work and family lives, it allows for less time to work on new friendships. SAD.

[@TedMeow]

Congrats on another video! Loved hearing both your perspectives on Japan, and as a fellow immigrant here I really agree with a lot of what you guys said. Really nice-and I think fair-representation of the realities of this country that we nonetheless love living in

[@zt8639]

Thank you so much for creating contents like this! It’s like you guys have read my mind and put my thoughts into words. Watching this made me realize that as a “gayjin”, I should stop trying so hard to fit in and be fully accepted in Japan. It’s already hard for straight foreigners let alone if you are gay and foreigner at the same time. If they’ll like and accept me, great! If not, I won’t take it personally anymore.

[@SuperstaRobA]

Planning my weeding trip to Japan, you are helping so much! Thank you

[@oenrob98000]

I love this episode! I think a lot of us "gaijins" have excessively romanticised life in Japan as we don't have insights into the daily challenges encountered by those who live in Japan. I love visiting Japan, but I'm not sure I would enjoy living there. 🤷 I recently watched きのう何食べた? on Netflix and I love it. Do you think it's an accurate depiction of a Japanese gay relationship? I found it odd that there was hardly any display of affection between the main characters.

[@Schattensephiroth]

As said in the video, too, it is basically a straight arachaic stereotype with two men. It is still very good, but in itself. the reality is often quite different I would say. (I am not saying that these relationships do not exist, they might, but I think they are rare.)

[@bodo887]

I would say the show is an ideal but overall a very small minority of what gay couples here experience and pretty unrealistic.

[@beejay6552]

So interesting. I wish we knew more about your backgrounds to understand why you feel this way. Also how Meng talks about friendship etc is the same way I feel about my Chinese friends (one sided and have different expectations of friendship).

[@Thaizapzap]

The big plus for me (I'm Dani, the Spanish guy from our channel) would be to have the possibility to see you guys if we are going to Japan for holidays, but I understand the "Japanese way", we live in Sweden and also there is different ways to live comparing other countries. I think we need to make a video to talk about that because each country has his own "not-nice" side. Btw... when I was living in San Francisco, I never understood why some Asian gay guys don't want to date with other Asians. I LOVE YOUR CHANNEL!!!

[@crisastro]

Thank you for that awesome video. It's very sad you guys are experiencing rejection. Come to Australia!

[@crowninthesky]

One minute in and I can tell there are so many parallels to Hawai’i. Maybe it’s an island/isolated population thing.

[@carloscarvalhar9129]

I agree with you. I live today at a more isolated state in Brazil, so, although I have being living in the same country for 40 years, sometimes I get a cultural shock, because here the local culture is too strong and people don't know how life is outside this "little park".

[@crowninthesky]

@@carloscarvalhar9129That’s so interesting to me! It sounds like for any one country or culture, other countries are cliches or their tourism marketing. Hawai’i isn’t just Waikiki to the same extent that most non-Brazilians don’t know much about Brasilia.

[@carloscarvalhar9129]

@@crowninthesky yeah, usually people live in the stereotypical image, then they learn the real country or culture. Anyway, Haway seems very nice, but too expensive. A place that I'd love to go...

[@Tang3000]

Hawaii was also conquered by the U.S.. The relationship that native Hawaiians have with people they have essentially been forced into having relationships with would understandably be strained.

[@Edward-ns2qv]

Your food customization segment really hit me, as I was in Japan 3 years ago at the Little Sheep Hot Pot touristy area of Shibuya Crossing. A person I was with is vegetarian, and we asked for half of the pot to be the meat broth, and to just simply do water on the other half of the pot. After much google translation back and forth, checking with managers, and the kitchen, they wouldn't do it. We must have seemed like crazy foreigners.

[@Jumpoable]

They are robots. If it's not in the manual, they don't know how to do even the simplest tasks. I was in Uji, Kyoto in this cute modern teahouse by Byōdōin, & sat down with my friend. My friend ordered a wagashi set with hot matcha, I ordered a soba set but wanted an iced matcha. They serve ice matcha on their menu, so I asked if I could get an iced one. They said it's not allowed with my soba noodle set cuz it comes with HOT matcha. I said I'll pay extra for the ice. They said they couldn't do it. So my friend ordered another set with an ICED matcha. & I theatrically EXCHANGED our drinks when they came & I made sure that idiot waitress SAW that we switched drinks & then I rolled my eyes at her. HELLOOOOooOO? Problem füčking SOLVED. Sometimes they really need to be taught a lesson in critical thinking & REAL customer service. I don't need you kneeling in front of me saying sumimasen thrice. Just bring me my damn drink.

[@bodo887]

Yeah, restaurants are highly unflexible. It is considered rude to request it as well. Worked in the travel industry and very traditional ryokan will simply reject bookings if customers don't want to eat there or have special dietary requirements. A very notorious ryokan in Kyoto even checked on our customers during dinner if they ate everything and if they left over too much food, they'd complain to us and threaten to never take any of our bookings...

[@sjinzaar]

This video is so true for me as a foreigner in Shanghai. Perhaps this isn't just a Japan things, but a global cultural thing in the LGBTQ+ culture.

[@mikian9999999]

Omg thank you youtube algorithm for showing me this channel. Subscribed! I love you both!!! 😍

[@TokyoBTM]

Thank you. Glad you are enjoying our content

When I was a kid I used to dream of one day living in either Japan or the US, as I was mesmerized by them and thought they were impeccable places where everything was perfect. As I matured and had the opportunity to experience more from them, I quickly started to realize how wrong I was. Japan loves to be something that I call "casually xenophobic", where they mean no harm, they're just being them, but with complete disregard towards everyone else and not even willing to learn more and change or adapt. That's the dealbreaker for me, they're stubborn as hell and stuck in their own ways and they don't even seem to think that's a problem. It's an incredibly backwards place in social issues despite its wealth and technology innovation, and that's even more unbelievable when you take into account the sheer number of foreign tourists the country attracts for having such a popular culture around the world. Today I think Japan is a beautiful place to visit and do some shopping, but that's about it. I would *NOT* want to live there anymore, it's far too stressful to have to deal with that kind of BS on a daily basis.

[@Dustb0]

Spilling the tea. I think a lot of people are blinded by their interest in the country.

[@bodo887]

Totally agree with the stubbornness and stuck in their way. It's even more frustrating that Japanese themself seem quite unhappy with it but then just brush it of with a "shikata ga nai" not trying to change anything. I also just hear them say "it's our island mentally", as if it's natural law that island countries ought to be closed minded...

[@moumuooo.o2283]

@@bodo887 its because us as foreigner especially Americans think that diversity has to be part of every country when diversity should not be a necessity when cultures do not mix. And i know that your gonna call me wrong, but look at France they have some troubles with muslims since muslims think they are being discriminated because of a law that separates religion and state affairs. When it has affected other religions even Jews not in any physical way BTW…

[@bodo887]

@@moumuooo.o2283 I don't disagree with you and I think most foreigners in Japan enjoy the fact Japan isn't the same diversity melting pot as the US for example. However, Japanese do need to get over some of their isolationalist thinking, just for their own sake even. There is a lot of proud ignorance and "exotification" that Japanese even do on their own part and it's not healthy. Also there are international couples and foreigners living in Japan already and Japan needs to deal with them in a way that they can identify and be included in the culture or else you get the problems Europe is facing for example, where immigration is working less than well.

[@kjkjkjcwazy3280]

@@bodo887 bro, their isolacionist way of thinking is waay too real. And it's not only about behaviour or diversity matters. A LOT of them don't know about about the terrible things Japan did in the 2WW nor even know about suastic symbol. It's really insane!

[@JuustJayden]

Thanks guys for another informative video and being so courageous to share your own personal experiences and views. That feeling of trying to assimilate, to give and not receive back from friends and ostracism I know well. You guys are strong and resilient. I like how you both have different views and how Andrew being a ‘foreigner’ in Japan (even though he’s so immersed in the culture) can be so objective and compartmentalize the various issues. I’d get emotional 😭 I’m from Toronto Canada and it’s problematic even among gay circles/cliques here. I’ve KonMari’d people I’ve known for 7+ yrs out of my life as they were causing me social anxiety, constantly controlled when they wanted to invite me out and then post ‘sisterhood’ photos to pretty much sly me. I used to think I overthink until I saw patterns my exes would warn me about. I didn’t do anything and look above average most say, so there’s probably that 🤷🏻‍♂️ Calm is great App to help reset 💪🏼 🧖‍♂️ 🧘🏻‍♂️

[@hwychn475]

It's meeting foreign people one on one through dating apps specifically that some Japanese men feel uncomfortable with. There are people who are simply racist, but there are many Japanese men who don't hook-up/meet-up with foreigners just because they don't like not knowing what to expect. For example if we're going on a date, we know that most Japanese people will follow social rules like talking quietly, no PDA, avoid unwanted attention, etc. But a foreign person may not know these rules or worse may know them and just choose not to follow them, which I've unfortunately experienced, and as a Japanese person it is very uncomfortable to be in public with someone who breaks the rules even if it were an honest mistake. As far as dating, Japanese people are used to being able to communicate their thoughts and feelings without actually having to say them, which is very difficult when you're from different cultures and speak different languages. Having to be direct and very communicative to avoid misunderstandings is honestly exhausting to many people. And if it's just a hook-up, again most Japanese people just don't like not knowing what to expect. We are very sensitive to awkwardness, especially during sex, and it's just more likely to arise when you can't communicate well. Also, many of the Japanese men who say 'no foreigners' actually would potentially date someone from another country if they met organically, especially if they grew up in Japan or have lived here long enough to understand the culture and language. If you go somewhere like Nichome you can see that it is pretty segregated- most foreign people like to go to clubs and bigger more open bars. Foreign people tend to like to be around foreign people, especially if they don't speak Japanese, and as a Japanese person living in Japan, even though it's fun every once in a while, most of us would not like to go out of our way to be the token Japanese person in a group of foreigners. It kind of sounds harsh but, you know, we're not the one's living in a foreign country so generally people want to be in a space where they can just be Japanese. That's why we live here.

[@woodwart]

I don’t think you’ve presented a good case for why Japanese people only date Japanese. You’ve basically just elaborates on what they said in the video, which is indefensible. I got really sick of the dynamic ‘Japanese who like Japan won’t date me and Only Japanese who want to leave see me as a potential exit and anyway a stepping block away from Japan. What do you have to say about that? Do you think you’re building a country that is good for foreigners to date in? 16 years in the country and this dynamic to me is ‘exhausting’ yet unlike you I had to tolerate it.

[@thechikuwa284]

@@woodwart It's a serious discrimination problem that many Western women won't date Asian men who speak English with a strange accent. It's the same thing.

[@hwychn475]

@@woodwart This wasn't meant to be a 'good' case as to why Japanese people don't meet foreigners on apps. This was just the reality. There is no good reason, it's just xenophobia, sometimes racism, and the complications of living in a homogenous society and not wanting to be the one who sticks out by dating a foreigner/preferring the dynamic of someone who has lived similar experiences to you. I get that it must be very exhausting but it is an issue that will not be solved in my lifetime at least. America has the exact same issue with interracial dating. No blacks, no Asians, no femmes? Japan is just as guilty as anywhere else but it is hardly the only place where intercultural/interracial dating is complicated by racism and xenophobia.

[@yourshinobi]

HAHAHA Don’t worry Meng, I share the same pet peeve with food chains not giving ketchup 😂 it’s okay w me cause less plastics being put out, but the awkwardness and judging looks when you ask for them are not fun

[@davidwoodford1814]

Japanese people like many island people ( English) they are quite exclusive.

[@chevon5707]

Honestly, as an extreme introvert, the social and dating norms and expectations in Japan seem ideal 😳

[@vertigo2894]

So you don't want a relationship?

[@PeterSoeWynn]

Thank you very much guys. This video is excellent. You are very good being frank and clear. I was in Japan (Tokyo and Kyoto) over 20 years ago, and yes, I was shocked, confused and in the same time, amazed to find foreigners are not allowed into gay bars and clubs; when at the same time Japanese coming to England were able to have great time in pubs, clubs, saunas etc! Your video did a lot to explain the cultural differences affecting their (Japanese) attitudes. No, I did not have a great time then in Japan as a gay man; but, however, as a visitor, a tourist, I enjoyed Japan.

[@kyotokat8543]

Hi Andrew. Hi Meng. Agree with all of what you're saying. Often feel Japanese people have enough potential partners to choose from within their own ethnic group they don't need to go outside. Also have either of you been treated as if you're 'all foreign gays' in the way expectations are put on you or fail to be their foreign fantasy? I think a lot of Japanese people live very superficially. I love Japan, my people, and easy life but sometimes it does not feel enough.

[@cleuziosilva7668]

I just love this channel. I'm able to practice my Engish skill while I learn so much with these adorable dudes! One of the best channels for sure!

[@ydalir]

This was a really great video! I definitely think coming into Japan prepared for the worst of what you hear about it is the way to go. I went there like that and was pleasantly surprised left and right, and when something more difficult was confirmed, I didn't need to deal with any of the shock value. I definitely think trying to look at all these negative aspects though with the idea of them being a double-edged sword is also going to be helpful though. Even with things like the Japanese and racial preference. As foreigners, it can be frustrating and disheartening, but people being comfortable with stating their preferences doesn't have to be such a bad thing necessarily I think, especially if it can be done politely. It is a big thing here in Korea as well (I would argue way more so actually), and it hurts and it annoys me, but letting go of people with divergent preferences from who you are is freeing (just as freeing as when as young gays we learn to let go of straight crushes). And I think the more foreigners and biracial people are becoming a part of Japan, the more open Japanese are becoming generally. I also wanted to say that I think we shouldn't look at LGBT issues, concepts, rights, etc. as belonging on a single linear timeline and that things as they exist in the West (be that the trajectory of LGBT people under the law, or even the way people identify themselves) should be the model for all countries. I think we forget that in the US, the original gay rights movement was anti-marriage for gays and straights alike! Not to say that one end would be better than the other, just that there are multiple perspectives. Every culture should be able to probe and pave a way for themselves however works best for them, and I think as LGBT Western people we often get this tunnel-vision where we see societies needing to go through certain steps to reach an ideal. I wouldn't want to live in a world where queer culture looked exactly the same across the globe anyways. The idea that there might be new takes or perspectives entirely unique to another country is exciting I think! Also yes, Meng is 100% correct. They never give you ketchup unless you ask :((((

[@oenrob98000]

Amen 💝 You're so cute!

[@santiagodcejudo]

So. Glad. You talked. About this. Being a hyper social, Mexican gay wanting to finally put his Japanese skills to the test, I was pretty disillusioned running into this sort of social brick wall. It’s like the polar opposite of what we did growing up: “You’re a foreigner? Awesome. Let’s be friends!”

[@luckyhenry9832]

I lived and worked in Japan and this rings so true. I’m white, my friend is Black. The level of racism was horrendous, particularly what my Black friend endured. Japan is xenophobic and has major cultural problems with racism and sexism. And increasingly, it’s slow pace of change has left it behind. Denying it, minimizing it, is the Japanese way and it is clearly not working.

[@AlbumLeViola]

all countries are equally racist. indianare also racist to their own ppl. blacks in africa as well. japan china korea are also racist to non whites and they have no interest to integrate with other races. no races arent racist. we all are racist and thats a fact not assumption 😜😛😝🙄

[@luckyhenry9832]

@@AlbumLeViola I agree that every country has racism, and it’s an ongoing issue that will always need to be challenged. I disagree that all countries are equally racist… I think it’s likely to be more uneven and complex than this.

[@GabuatMicko]

I agree. Japan's culture of being passive is clearly not working

[@luckyhenry9832]

@MegaStephie2010 your comment does not make sense. Traditionalism and racism are not mutually exclusive. My friend endured racism because of prejudiced beliefs and attitudes about what it means to be Black. She was not imposing an ideology on Japanese people. Attempting to deny racism or reframe it as an issue of ideology is damaging for everyone. Stop it. And think.

[@luckyhenry9832]

@MegaStephie2010 I strongly disagree with you. We were both English teachers; I am white and she is Black. Here’s a few examples: Japanese head of a company to me: “We’re giving you a contact, not her. Our students don’t want to learn from people who look like that.” In private conversations, all sorts of horrendous racial stereotypes were shared with me about Black people. Racism is grounded in fear, but also ignorance. We can’t address it if we can’t acknowledge it. Music, movies are a small part of it, but so too is family talk, social attitudes, discriminatory policy, all based on deep beliefs of racial superiority and hierarchy.

[@jinny82]

As a oerson who is struck by anxiety every time I think even only to text a person (even if I really like that person... even my crush... ) I kinda like the "grey zone" of friendship with japanese friends. I have japanese friends also here in italy, and they're more "italian" than me for this, but as japanese they don't freack out if I don't want to hang out every single free minute I have or I don't answer immediatly to a message or a mail, even when they don't know of the anxiety thing adn that's so calming... (but for 恋人同士 should be different, I know)

[@jankeroolz]

Experience a lot of this in China, too. I love China, but it's difficult to find someone who can manage the balance between nationality and personal preference. Even if you speak the language, it doesn't change your appearance.

[@forrestl6033]

What's a person like if he can balance well nationality and personal preferences?

[@hotasian9205]

In fact, most Chinese people have great interest and curiosity in foreigners.

[@딸기-y3u]

Love you guys I learn a lot from ur vids! Both of u are so eloquent I love the way you talk! It feels like a hangout with friends

[@quantafreeze]

Meng! That shirt is so cool! Thank you for the video. You two are too cute!

[@TokyoBTM]

Thank you😋 haha this shirt got so much love. I should wear more interesting fashion

[@Aldrius]

This shirt you have on today, Meng is fly as hell. It is assaulting my eyes in the best possible way. (Also I'm always curious if east asian people can tell country of origin by appearance.) Also not seeing your SO for a month just because would be... insane.

[@Iliveinamonsterverse]

2:59 this is what exactly is happening with Japanese people. I have 2 Japanese friends and this is 100% the truth. You explained perfectly. Friendships we have the same problem in London is like you just know people or what we call friends for 6 months

[@zemzemy95]

Been here for 5 years and I approve this message! Sad but true 😆😥

[@theuncommonsense193]

10:00 OMG that's a universal thing! all forms of relationships are two way streets. Preach!!! haha seriously though, good information as always because nowhere is perfect and it is okay to talk about the cons when dealing with another country. Love you guys and the channel! ❤🧡💛💚💙💜🤎🖤🤍🖤🤎💜💙💚💛🧡❤

[@kennethnourse554]

Great podcast! I was a JET from 93-95 and have been back to Japan over 30 times since for work. Although I miss my visits (due to covid), I realized long ago that I never would be able to build the loving, happy, supported gay life with a partner there that I wanted.

[@stevegrech30]

love your channel guys!! ideal for bedtime stories!! been to japan and people were so helpful and sweet!! ❤

[@jaruchaohjanmekha1215]

I have a same situation in Canada as well when I try to make Canadian friends. It is hard to break their bubbles.

[@babyucon]

Great video. Though the same can be said for any society where certain group of people represent the majority. In white societies, most will prefer white. In San Francisco, you'll see most asian, white, etc with white guys. In heavy black gay populated areas in the states like Atlanta, DC, Texas, etc, most gay blk men prefer their own. You really have to go where people are open. For me as a blk guy, I wouldn't go to China or Japan but rather the Philippines.

[@davidwoodford1814]

I lived in Japan many years ago and it seems not much has changed. I enjoyed myself and had fun with Japanese people and lots of laughs. Meng needs to settle down with a westerner who can give him the love and attention he deserves.

[@Digaummad]

I really appreciated this vid, i'm thinking about moving to Japan eventually or somewhere in Asia. I Wish to know more about China and those culture differences between them, specially when it comes to creating relationships.

[@YukeWeiss]

Look that bonus one is essential for me, so I am glad you included it. I've often wanted to go to Japan for all the weeb reasons and there's fortunately a couple of subcultures I'm a part of that does give me a shared experience with some locals, but it seems like a difficult thing to experience at times.

[@mikeberman9270]

I've lived in Thailand now for 14 years. Throughout all countries in SE Asia, it is fairly easy to find dating partners as a foreigner. I did work in Tokyo once for nine weeks , twenty years ago, on a project that ran from 9 am to 10 pm seven days a week to complete. No smart phones in those days, and no time to date anyway. Tokyo is a fascinating place and all the Japanese people I met and worked with were very friendly and helpful.

[@ninchan3]

About the ketchup issue: Also in Germany, when you want ketchup, you have to tell them. I don't know if you have to pay for it, I think it's free. Usually when you order fries, they will ask if you want ketchup or mayonnaise (or both). If they don't ask, you have to ask for your ketchup or you end up with nothing but salt on your fries. I personally don't eat fries with ketchup and I have half a liter of mayonnaise in the fridge anyways so it would be no problem for me. 😅

[@Wnst10]

Thank you for these revelations. :-(

[@Love_TheArtist]

Great topic and video!

[@hasnat2002]

Hi there guys. Just subscribed to your channel quite recently. It's great and I want to thank you for such interesting and helpful content. You guys are also a whole lot of fun. Who wouldn't want to be friends with you👍❤️. I guess being a mixed Asian growing up from a young age in the European culture, I got to have a wide range of practices and cultural expectations, which also have matured and developed over time, as things seem to do, more quickly in the 'West'. I've seen Western culture change drastically, drastically, in a cosmically relatively short space of time, from the 60s to now, and in general for the better. Better in my opinion being that people are more accepting of another's way of life (talking a little more specifically regarding sexuality). It's not ALL good of course, and there are certain things that have changed, in my opinion, not for the better, but overall, it's more open and accepting and less judgemental on atrophied and sometimes senseless expectations (go culture). With that in mind and knowing that a place with a lot of external elements/people/interactions will almost certainly change to accommodate, reworking the culture accordingly.....BUT the rate of this accommodation development is varied depending upon actual PHYSICAL different numbers of people present. TV, ZOOM, news channels etc aren't going to cut it. So I guess, for a foreigner to come to Japan, it's going to be an 'issue', if you expect in this era of IT connectivity to experience the same levels of cultural development everywhere. Doesn't work. So I guess, to use and develop an old phrase, 'When in Rome, do what the Romans do..... and expect to be done, till there are enough queen's present to put feather boas on the lions and have the crowd go wild with pleasure'. You know what I mean. I'd love to come to Japan one day, it seems beautiful, but I'm quite sanguine about culture and expectations there. It cool. Time changes everything and all I can do is enjoy what bits I can. Hugs to you both and see you in Japan.

[@TokyoBTM]

Ahhh thank you for sharing. I have learned so much from this comment. Japan is definitely safe and fun to visit, please come ~!

[@hasnat2002]

@@TokyoBTM Will do. Scary to come alone to a different culture, but I'm game for a learning experience, any time. Xx

[@danielintheantipodes6741]

For me, personal safety overcomes any other disadvantage. My city (Melbourne in Australia) is very safe, but assault is certainly not rare and you do not need to be gay to experience it either. So if i was living in Japan, I would overlook a huge amount of negatives for that positive. Also, as far as being rejected by some bars, there are so many bars that I don't think it would be a problem to move on to another? For me, it is no different to a straight person being told they cannot enter a gay bar. I find such an exclusion odd, to say the least, but it is not really a huge inconvenience for the straight person! Thank you for the video!

[@malcolmledger176]

If your Japanese `boyfriend` doesn`t want to meet `too often`, or thinks that you are `too intense`, it might be that he is not really interested in you, (sorry), but doesn`t want to hurt your feelings by breaking off, or telling you that he is not really interested. This kind of `relationship` can drag on because one of the partners is not able to end it `honestly`, (probably the Japanese one), and just wants it to fade away by offering the excuse that he is always `busy` etc, (that is, until you work it out for yourself and just give up).

[@tokyovibe100]

Exactly this!

[@animeprince7866]

@@tokyovibe100 then I have a genuine question MIyazaki san. How does one maintain a Japanese gay man's interest? It's a burnining question I am sure nobody has had the brass to ask directly. We have ways of doing that as foreigners that obviously do not work in Japan. Would you mind sharing your ideas (obviously you could only speak for yourself) but maybe, it can help the rest of us understand a Japanese view point.

[@bodo887]

That MIGHT be the case but Japanese guys are just generally quite passive, so it's hard to tell the difference of someone just being shy or just not interested. Most of my Japanese friends hardly ever invite me either, even though they and I know we are free. It always has to be me to suggest to do something or I'd only get to see them once every six months or so... it's a bit frustrating so I told them it makes me feel lonely, so they started inviting me more but then some still prefer me to invite them and would rather hikikomori all year instead of text me xDDD

[@animeprince7866]

@@bodo887 interesting. I still have the same question set as i posed to MIYAZAKI san. I hear all these difficulties in getting past those barriers, ghosting, and "too intense" and wonder how to get and maintain a Japanese persons interest without seeming too overbearing.

[@malcolmledger176]

@@animeprince7866 Although I am not Japanese, and cannot claim to have any special insight into Japanese gay men, perhaps I might offer a comment? It seems to me to be problematical to suppose that there is a `one size fits all` solution to maintaining a Japanese man`s interest. If there were, believe me, everyone would already know about it. There is usually only one thing which appeals to most, (gay), men, (and I think you already know what THAT is!) Apart from that, in my experience, I think that Japanese men are as varied in their interests as Western men, and although you are more likely to find supporters of the Hiroshima Carp in Japan than in Chicago, that doesn`t mean that they are not also interested in music, cooking, fashion, health, sports, or whatever, just as Western men are. It is too reductive to suppose that there is some magic bullet which will always hit the target and ensure success. Life is simply not like that, and nor are people, whether Japanese or not. Instead, try to find out what appeals to YOUR specific Japanese man, and what HIS interests are. I think you are more likely to be able to start and maintain a relationship in this way, rather than running around with Cinderella`s shoe into which you try to cram everyone`s foot until you find Prince Charming...

[@djcrumrine2150]

Off topic, but I love Meng’s shirt.

[@f.remplakowski]

I think there is also a similar occurrence in the UK as white English/Scottish/Welsh/Northern Irish men only want to date others from the UK and they typically have a British flag on their (Grindr/Scruff) profile (and they are in the UK). To be honest when I see friend groups out and about in London (not necessarily gay, it’s usually very monocultural). I think in Japan it might be a cultural difference but perhaps the superiority thing might be there given historical precedents (but I might be wrong, I know WW2 is not spoken about openly and therefore no one knows what the true reasons are, we can only assume from what happened and our assumptions may be wrong).

[@kenjin3797]

Awesome video.. resonate so well with my experience

[@orbitearth7579]

Thats what wondering in my mind all this time, now you brought about it. How they differenciate if people are japanese or not?, did they literally asking you if you are japanese or not when meet?. Cause basically, korean, chinese, and japanese faces are really look alike that maybe it will impossible to notice them. I am chinese myself, and really want to someday have a japanese boyfriend. What if I speak fluently in japanese and adapt to their culture very much?, do they still "avoiding" me?. Do they really searching japanese blood for their partner or just "japan" people?

[@baba-bv8xz]

Wait a minute... I haven't even been recommended your videos anymore like it used to that is how I knew you posted, I put you on my notification, because I have a LOT to catch up with now. TT

[@TokyoBTM]

Thank you for always supporting us. Also we update every Tuesday at 6PM JST😉

[@EkkapornKong]

Omg this content really hits me. Cuz im now seeing a jp guy in bangkok and im going thru the situation u mentioned in the video.Once a month is a bit too long for regular date session. Lol Anyway i love ur channel, i just discovered it recently i love ur chemistry n humour. So genuine n funny. Andrew is witty and like mr. know it all for jp. While Meng is lovely know how explain things in an easy way. You both make me want to the same content for bkk wise. Lol. Thx for ur hard work its so informative and Hilarious like talking with frnds.

[@vegavillegas2015]

Thank you for always being honest and respectful. I think everyone if they took the time could recognize things that they accept about something they love in-spite of wanting some of those things to change. Great video.

[@allisterbernal5954]

Is it different in places like the Kansai region (like Osaka)? Are the gays more open or are they just as aloof as the ones in Tokyo?

[@minimach1]

Going with the theme here. While watching the popular TV series Terrace House and learning abt Japanese culture there. I found Japan culture can be quite dark and ominous. And it culminated to the premature end of the series with Hana's suicide due to online bullying. Of cos that's not to say all is bad. There's so much nice n wonderful stuff, just be aware every place has its pros and cons.

[@daisuke05291]

日本人ゲイにモテるタイプは、短髪のマッチョやガチムチの人はチャンスあり。 そうじゃない人は覚悟必要かも知れない。 日本人でもやむを得ず筋トレ頑張ってる人多いですね。😭 ちなみに日本人女性には身体の細い長髪のイケメンもモテる。 ストレートの男性にはモデルのようにスタイルと顔が良い人がモテます。 顔の良さは結局大事みたい。💦 まあ欧米でもそうかもしれないですが、、💦 ただ、日本のビアンの人は見た目の好みはわからないけど、ゲイの人より身体の関係より心の繋がりを求る傾向があるって聞きますね。 あとミン君が言っていたやつですが、日本人だけど頻繁に会いたい人に対しても、なるべくその感情相手にぶつけるのは抑えてますね。 繋がりを切りたくない人には慎重に接してます。 日本って人それぞれが自分のスケジュールを管理してる所もあったりするから急な誘いは困ってしまう事もあるかもしれません。 一般時な労働環境や仕事への価値観が海外とまず違うからそこがどうにかなればいいのに。

[@TokyoBTM]

モテる人の経験は絶対に違いますね♥　モテたい！やはり体を鍛えないと😖

[@JoniiiBoni]

I think your videos are so important. Its such an amazing way to get people informed and more open minded. I would love to talk to you one day.

[@JoniiiBoni]

... and have my gay moment in Japan of course😂

[@TokyoBTM]

I'm so glad! thank you for your kind comment

[@sjinzaar]

"They will treat you as another event Resting with you is not an option!" wow. As a foreigner in Shanghai, I have the same experience.

[@RV-rs5zr]

This video has been informative. Thank you.

[@louis2778]

i am good looking too but people in the states don’t reply as well lol

[@stevenkettlewell1618]

I laughed when the conversation was about never getting ketchup for your fries.... I'm a Canadian who loves vinegar on my fries.. I've never been offered vinegar in the U.S. with my fries, but they ALWAYS offer ketchup... and I find American ketchup very sugary.... So I HAVE TO ASK for vinegar and get weird looks from the server as in, they're wondering if I want to disinfect the table top? No, I just love the taste... Also, wonder if it's also because for most of its history, Japan was an island and chose to deliberately shut itself off from the rest of the world.. Besides a few jesuits who didn't last long, Admiral Perry had to blast his way in...... Again, thanks for a lovely and informative discussion.....