Why Old Republic Jedi Were WAY More Powerful Than You Realize - Star Wars Explained

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[@thepockerbirringsshow5083]

Also take into account that Jedi in the old republic were trained to fight in saber to saber combat. The Jedi of the newer republic basically picked whatever form worked best for them and eventually shifted toward styles that could be better against blasters. The Jedi thought that the Sith weren’t as prevalent and studied other things rather than the lightsaber combat. When they go up against villains who have been trained to kill Jedi, it makes sense that they lose

[@A_Black_Sheep94]

Even 500, 1,000, 10,000 years ago if you put the average Jedi against the average Sith of their time period the Sith comes out on top 9/10.

[@rastovic82]

I can't help but wonder how Jedi would defend themselves against sith magic or the illusions Darh Zannah could do

[@paytonwirtjes523]

​@@A_Black_Sheep9490 percent of every fight comes down to spirit, sith who follow thier passions WANT the win more. Serenity is well and good with the blanket of experience. Without it spirit drives the battle and decides it.

[@connordutton674]

​@@A_Black_Sheep94 that's because it's easier your not mastering your emotions your embracing them. Almost all creatures will find this easier to do than mastery over one self. Lucas describe the Dark side as a cancer it ends up eating you whole in the end the more you draw on it the more addictive it becomes. If you take a Jedi Master or Grandmaster and pair them up against a strong Sith Lord they will be equal if not stronger though. You could also say though that individually Sith are stronger as the Dark Side is concentrated in a few users, but the light side is more evenly distributed.

[@A_Black_Sheep94]

@Connor Dutton That's how he described the Sith in particular. You paid any Jedi vs any Sith and the Sith comes out on top 9/10 times and star wars history bears that out.

[@b.msabol8551]

Between the constant infighting and the Mandalorian neo crusaders they were probably the most battle hardened force wielders in galactic history. That's not even including the fighting with the Sith at the time. Hence such characters as Revan, Nomi Sunrider, Exar Kun, Ulic Qel-Droma, etc.

[@austinkersey2445]

The Clone Wars Jedi (at least the masters) were better. As for the most battle-hardened, that goes to Luke's New Jedi Order.

[@b.msabol8551]

@@austinkersey2445 depends on which version of Luke we're talking about. The expanded universe Grandmaster Luke is near force god levels, and Kyle Katarn is yet to be canonized. Disney Luke died of force projection.

[@austinkersey2445]

@@b.msabol8551 This is Legends content, so I think we can kick Disney Canon to the curb on this one.

[@90skidcultist]

Legends ain’t real anymore, get over it.

[@austinkersey2445]

@@90skidcultist He says on a Legends video. And, it is real. It just isn't viewed as legitimate by a corporation that cares little for the actual property itself. You can count the good things Disney and modern Lucasfilm have made with the Star Wars with the fingers on one or two hands. Which, considering how long they have had the license . . . is kinda sad.

[@kly8105]

Yoda seems to show acknowledgement of how weaker the Jedi had become before the start of the clone wars, I have to wonder how strong the Jedi were when he first joined the order, how strong the older members he knew were, or if he says that with conviction given records of old Jedi and a general idea given his long age.

[@Vatras888]

What if in compare to ancient Jedi Yoda in his prime was a medicore one?

[@ChrondoSolja]

"The Sacking of Coruscant", one of the best trailers swtor ever produced...

[@187stk]

Man...... I've been saying this for a while. I'm so glad you brought this up. I've always thought the Jedi of the Old Republic were much more powerful.

[@EWarr-ko3nf]

"Tragedy breeds war. War breeds strength. Strength breeds Victory. Victory breeds Peace. Peace breeds complacency. Victory has defeated you." I believe this quote prefectly represents the jedi, quote originated from Bleach TYBW

[@Bluedude08]

speaking of which when does the bleach tybw anime continue?

[@EWarr-ko3nf]

@James Cook 2nd cour is in july, 3rd cour winter 2023 and 4th cour in 2024

[@Bluedude08]

@@EWarr-ko3nf huh?

[@tarikR.R.5120]

Nice to read a Bleach reference in the Star Wars universe 🙂

[@tommyalmeyda1253]

Might apply to post Cold War America! My America!

[@hanrockabrand95]

It makes quite a bit of sense, and it's a lesson we've seen in history and sci-fi stories before: war is a skill that atrophies without use.

[@ItsTheGoodStuff28]

"Murder and Mayhem awaits" - Sith Inquisitor. Thank you for covering SWTOR lore. I love playing SWTOR.

[@demonzone2571]

SWTOR the true lore that Disney refuses to recognize as Star Wars canon

[@ItsTheGoodStuff28]

@@demonzone2571 yep, typical Disney 🙄

[@erichouser7756]

I think, with the downfall of the brotherhood of darkness, the Jedi became the unbalance of the force. Rule of two deceived the Jedi to becoming it's own enemy.

[@nicholasplagman9837]

I also believe one of the other reason was that the jedi of the clone wars time went out of there way to take all people who has the force instead of back then being more selective back in the old republic time. They would look for those who had a good force connection rather then anyone with a weak one. So when the clone wars came to be they had more jedi knights who wouldn't even compair to the old republic jedi knights

[@momtchilboshniakov290]

You are both right and wrong at the same time. The prequel order did take everyone they could detect in, if they were infants or young children with few exeptions, so long as they could legally do so (some planets made it mandatory for children to be given away, some made it voluntary for the parents), however the amount of those children that were taken for knighthood was not 100%. Many of them were left at the initiate stage and then baisically thrown away to the agri corps or similar institutions to be "aides" for the true jedi order... without the chance to ever go up in the order hierarchy. Meanwhile depending on which era we are talking about, the older jedi order's all took any people that they could, including late bloomers, so long as the order had the ability to do so financially and thought that the initiates could make it as jedi. So on that front the whole number of available force user's for the older jedi order was larger, and had differing standards based on which academies the recruiters were from(because the jedi had many more temples in all previous eras). For example the jedi order as a whole during the last battle for Rusan were overall much weaker than prequel era jedi, even if the masters in the rusan era were far better than the prequels. We see this in the darth bane novels with people like Rain and Tomcat being thrown into the fight, and called jedi after mere months of training. Meanwhile in the old Republic era we had Master ven zallow tank being thrown through a concrete pillar several meters thick and continue fighting... meanwhile yoda gives up after a relatively small fall (for jedi masters who can fall from atmosphere if they try) or obi wan in episode 2 from literal minor burns from lightsaber touches on the shoulder and outer thigh.

[@paytonwirtjes523]

That's a narrow minded point of view. Obi wan Kenobi had a very weak force connection, but he grew to become one of the most powerful, and skilled combatants in his era. Some will surprise you. Do you think any blade master that taught obi wan would ever think he'd be the greatest of all time

[@momtchilboshniakov290]

@@paytonwirtjes523 honestly i don't think so, the prequel era Jedi were kind of a joke in how restricted their knowledge was on force techniques and their member's relative prowess, so being called the greatest soresu master of all time was kind of unfair for the order as a whole. He was definitely the best his era, but he was an outlier. also I'm pretty sure it was stated somewhere that he had an above average connection for his time as a Padawan, I could be misremembering characters there though. That's lore wise at least, as for realistically ,its got a lot to do with movies showing things differently than the books and games due to special effects limitations so the scale of character feats are better in the books/games that came out. But we are speaking about the lore as it was seen/read/heard, so metaknowledge should not be taken into account and we should be considering only what is stated in the complete lore. which is basically that the old republic Jedi were technically the most powerful in terms of their combatants. ironically due to this same system it could be inferred that the Jedi exploration corps and agri corps were the strongest variation of their branches of the Jedi order that have existed, due to simple lack of information about the old republic Jedi order's equivalent branches.

[@paytonwirtjes523]

@@momtchilboshniakov290 I meant to say greatest of his time. He was an unmatched defensive fighter. The greatest of all time was exar Kun without a shadow of a doubt

[@andrewmcconnell-ns1lk]

i'd just like to point out that obi one kenobi had the weakest force connection of any jedi and yet he managed to beat Darth Maul on multiple occasions, killed General Grieves who has taken out jedi far more powerfull than kenobi and as if that wasnt enough he beat darth vader on mustifar only to disapear for 9 or 10 years and then return on to completely destroy Darth Vader again and then dissapear again only to return with another skywalker, infaltrate the deathstar and then completely evaporate. what i am saying is yes power is great but, to quote luke skywalker it is nothing without training. (as a side note i would also like to add that kenobi had more expierianc eon the battle field than most other jedi)

[@EmperorCaligula_EC]

The TRULY IRONIC fact is, despite the Jedi so focussing on "understanding" instead of combat, Darth Sidious defeated them by CLOUDING their understand and not through brute force as the previous Sith. Meaning, the Jedi failed double. The lost their old fighting skills, but failed to gain the understanding to see or prevent a Sith Lord who hated lightsabers and duelling. lol

[@thalmoragent9344]

Crazy how the top duelists of the Prequel Jedi Order are the only ones who could compete and survive in the Old Republic. Anakin, Windu, Yoda, and Obi-Wan and Ahsoka (Plo-Koon likely as well) could live on, but just about all the others would get folded embarrassingly

[@j-dawgboneyard6699]

If I were a Jedi in the clone wars, I would learn from Jedi of the Old Replubic. Master all lightsaber forms. Grow more powerful and knowledgeable in the force. Gain much experience in fighting powerful dark Jedi and powerful Sith lords. I absolutely love the Jedi Order, but complacency was their downfall. Gotta keep growing and elevating.

[@privateuser3726]

Well all of the darkside users were in hiding, maybe fight against the huts

[@j-dawgboneyard6699]

@@privateuser3726 The Jedi should have training simulations from the Old Republic era. If nothing else, spar each other, or use a combat droid. The Jedi Order have to be ready, trained, and equipped to fight the Sith. Fighting Huts just won't help a Jedi. The Clones are prepared to fight the separatist. The Sith are trained to fight Jedi. But the Jedi are not trained well enough to compete effectively against a Sith? Something's wrong with that picture.

[@bozoforce]

6:48 Jedi master Adi Galia was given fatal head by Savage oppress and showed a spectacular "O" face

[@elliesheek5944]

Lol

[@n.k.warner2577]

Your analysis is pretty accurate. Short answer, Harmed. This change in outlook ultimately ended the Jedi Order as we knew it. I've always supported the Army of Light's approach with their Jedi-Lords.

[@gaethantoussaint3269]

Man this era needs a show like the Clone Wars

[@bloodchron1880]

“A warrior in a time of war will always out match a warrior in a time of piece.”

[@palpadur1112]

the more focused one is on the Force, and carrying out the will of the Force, the stronger they will be.

[@LUCIFER-M0RN1NGSTAR]

“Peace has cost you your strength victory has defeated you” bane and it’s completely true

[@stevenstatham2864]

If infact the jedi ever really return this is the type of skill and training I'm hoping for

[@emperorpalpatine2957]

Dude was in the middle of fighting a Sith Master yet still was comfortable enough to keep an eye on it's padawan's fight to make sure she wouldn't die, that's just true skill right there. There's a reason why he was the battlemaster.

[@seamusderby169]

I believe it both helped and harmed the Jedi it helped them persuade leaders away from conflicts but at the same time it left them bereft of the skills needed in combating acolytes of the darkest of human/alien nature. It also led them to the reformations that disallowed knights from studying and learning the truth of the dark side of the force leaving them to further their own weakness. They forgot to be the warrior in the garden and became the gardeners in a war

[@seamusderby169]

The Jedi were supposed to be the warrior poets. But became poets and sophists weak and deluded.

[@TheByron130]

well, since the clone war era jedi were very nearly wiped out entirely, I would say the "new path" wasn't a great idea.

[@Focusmore007_]

I guess it’s safe to say the Jedi in the old republic stayed in the gym while Jedi in the new republic skipped some days 😂

[@Lobsterwithinternet]

More like the New Republic Jedi drank Deit Coke.

[@D_To_The_J]

Unrelated but I feel Grogu is being set up to turn into the next big Sith.

[@miniblasan5717]

Wasn't it fairly recently that the Mandalorian War had been finished for 50 years to 200 years, just before the Old Republic? If it's that close then it's another explanation why the Jedi in the Old Republic were so much stronger but of course I could be wrong about this too.

[@Lobsterwithinternet]

That also factors in as well as the more recent Jedi Civil War.

[@tomasmccauley569]

And these Jedi were taken down by battle driods and clones. That would never have happened to the battle hardened Knights of the Old Republic who would have cut them down like grass.

[@sacha9646]

Zallow is my favorite Jedi. I only wish that he could integrate more force based attacks into his sequences. Imagine if he could force push like Satele shan, he would have been a real Challenge for Malgus. (Disney should have invested into the Old Republic instead of the acoshyte)

[@dmorfeus3910]

..and being that fuckin' stupendously ridiculously POWERFUL, than the plot decided that they need to die like schmucks, pew-pewed by other schmucks that can't hit a barn door from inside ( yes, yes I know, it's just a rumor...right ?! ) I find hilarious the fact that someone can devote so much time and energy to a story, ya know ?!

[@mikeyc1125]

So the Jedi of the Clone Wars damn near abandon the old ways to where only a select few Jedi masters can beat a Sith Lord, that right there is why they didn't survive Order 66, had the old ways still been around during the time of the Clone Wars, I believe they survive the Jedi Purge and they would've still been keeping the peace by keeping the citizens of the Galactic Republic safe from the Imperial Empire

[@Lobsterwithinternet]

The massacre at the Colosseum on Geonosis showed how far Order had fallen.

[@Chrisspru]

yoda and his consequences where a catastrophy for the jedi order

[@I_Am_Vegito_]

i think the only modern jedi that could stand a chance against the old republic jedi are yoda, plo koon, and MAYBE anakin skywalker if he was calm, and trained a bit more

[@dragomirpetrov5138]

It kinda stands to reason that the Jedi of old would be better prepared as they were on the war path pretty much all the time. Even Anakin got to be a bad ass thanks to the war. In a nut shell - practice makes perfect :D

[@danelamoreaux4166]

The Old Republic is my favorite era. The Clone wars Jedi were weaker because of Sidious and Plaguis tipping the balance and blinding the Jedi council.

[@anthonylarson60]

0:59 *laughs in Jace Malcolm*

[@granttheprice]

The Jedi did become weakened by the reforms. How ever I think it’s hubris that ended the Jedi they thought they were invincible.

[@narkmaul1]

Having so many authors across so many different mediums drawing from different sources and ideologies make it hard to compare the same Jedi through different story's let alone all the Jedi from all the era's, it's fun to debate and talk about but there's always going to be a difference of opinion.

[@jeova0sanctus0unus]

Its honestly what mace said in episode 1: "The Jedi are Peacekeepers not Soldiers"

[@JohnSmith-nz2yq]

4:52 who is the female jedi? And what movie/series is this? I have never seen it before. Thank you for the reply.

[@jasonpower6578]

I think the new policy screwed them over. I mean during the great hyperspace war the Sith had appeared out of nowhere after 300 years. Who says they can’t come back after 1000? They’ve taken a long hiatus befpre. True you shouldn’t be overly cautious but you should still be prepared. That policy is the reason many Jedi were killed by dooku, ventress, grievous, and vader.

[@MMZERO9]

I know George Lucas once said that Jedi were like Marshalls of the Old West, but what were his own thoughts on the Jedi/Sith wars which no doubt happened way back when?

[@savagedarksider2147]

I have A question for anyone; what do you think about this as A potential character: There was A Sith Lord by the name of Darth Vanity; she was A Sith obsessed with her beauty and power-She lived during the old republic era but when she died she managed to Transcendence and become A Force Ghost. In the present time, she managed to recruit my creative character: her goal is to be resurrected and rule the galaxy with my character but he ultimately betrayed her.

[@tylerpape4382]

I thought Satele Shan wielded a green saber?

[@karldoesgaming5775]

No it's blue, it was Zao who used the green saber

[@privateuser3726]

1:05 it's simple the Jedi are bleeding the force dry. The Jedi forbid any form of attachments thus no significant other thus less force sensitives being born, and if the force is the collective will of the universe then one could assume that the strength of the force is the strength of the galaxy and with the Jedi thinning the numbers of force sensitives throughout the galaxy by abducting them from their "ill-prepared" parents they are slowly weakening the force generation after generation

[@SHARKVADERS]

NNNNNNOOOOOOO

[@DaniG._.German]

Old is Gold

[@Excessxve]

The strength of the Jedi in the Old Republic was truly impressive. Most Jedi ranked above Padawan wore armor, a testament to their inevitable encounters with the Sith and other adversaries. The Sith of that era were indeed much more formidable than the Sith we've seen in more recent Star Wars stories like Vader, Palpatine, Maul, Kylo, and Dooku. In the Old Republic, many Sith acolytes possessed the ability to cast lightning, a power demonstrated by only a few in the later eras. The numerous wars, such as the Mandalorian Wars and the Jedi Civil War, led to battle-hardened Jedi and Sith, shaping their skills and experiences. It's understandable why I and many others favor the Old Republic era over the more recent Disney-era Star Wars. To many fans, the Old Republic remains a non-canon part of the Star Wars universe. However, in my opinion Knights of the old republic offers a more intricate and compelling storyline than what's presented in today's Star Wars franchise.

[@raw6668]

I think there were other factors as well. 1) Population. The Jedi of the Old Republic era had a larger population pool. While there are no known official numbers, lower estimates put it around 200,000 while others say it's likely in the millions based on some estimates based on the number of Temples the Jedi had and how large they were. This made the 20,000 by the Clone Wars seem laughable, and explains why we see less powerful Jedi in the Clone Wars make it to the High Council compared to the Old Republic era. Simply put, it's easy to show a more powerful Jedi if only due to the fact the Old Republic had a large sample pool, and such positions would be highly competitive. The reason for the larger population is more force sensitives, including whole species of force sensitives, allowing if not encouraging marriage to create powerful bloodlines, and While the Clone War Jedi restricted, many force sensitives' bloodlines and species were purged in the previous wars due to picking a side or being over-recruited, the Jedi not allowing fellow Jedi to marry (outside few exceptions) to produce new Jedi bloodlines, and being more restrictive. Not to mention the Sith supposably thinning out the Jedi numbers during the 1,000 years of peace while they enact their plan. 2) The New Sith Wars. While little is known, it was stated the war made the galaxy suffer a dark age to the point that technology and knowledge were lost and fragmented. And while technology would eventually recover, history and ancient techniques would be lost to the galaxy and the Jedi. The Jedi in particular when taking into account the Order fragmented and when certain factions were erased, so did the knowledge they had. Knowledge and techniques the Jedi of the Old Republic knew and could be utilized, like force-infused armor. In other words, the Jedi of the Clone Wars are the last vestiges of a Jedi crippled by the war that never recover. 3) Study and Development. The final reason I think there was a difference was the study conducted during the time. The Jedi in the Old Republic had departments that not only hunted Sith artifacts but also actively study them to find weaknesses in the Sith, or developed counter or their light side version. In other words, they knew their enemy and were building ways to defeat them. While the Jedi of the Clone Wars were mostly stumbling around the dark, unable to know what to do. Nor would they be able after heavily restricting what they could or could not learn.

[@You-to-be]

What happened was that licas did not write the novels, the people who wrote them did not write them in the same head space. So they overpowered them, obviously. Like when fans write their own stories for their favourite universe, they overpower their characters.

[@momtchilboshniakov290]

you are right , but that's using metaknowlage to explain a situation in a fandom. what most fans try do here is interpret it through a purely lore perspective.

[@You-to-be]

@@momtchilboshniakov290 which in my opinion is silly. It's shitty writing to go off kilter and take the story off the cannon power level. I say clone wars feloni style and samurai jack style and prequels is the limit of power levels and tiering and hierarchy for me.

[@momtchilboshniakov290]

@@You-to-be ok, that is fine, honestly the way I see it ,the power levels changing is just normal for a universe that's been developing for over 40 years. With Lucas's original vision really not mattering as much after the stories began being expanded upon and changing with the fandom, especially after 200 books of development and changes. The way we interpret the changes is either taking them at face value and getting annoyed at the inconsistencies or interpreting them purely lorewise in a way that let's us enjoy the fandom by arguing about which iteration of the Jedi order was the best. Also for clarification the samurai Jack style animated series actually shows feats that are several orders of magnitude more than the faloni TV show... like the jedi telekinesis and physical enhancements are in line with the original expanded universe lore... like anikin dragging a 250m long ship hundreds of meters fast enough to intercept guided munitions within a second and windu blowing away small armies by himself, punching through half a dozen armored superbattledroids in a second. Whilst the feloni show is more in line with the new cannon, Anakin struggles with an granade explosion and windu needs 2 seconds to break a plane of armored glass.

[@You-to-be]

@@momtchilboshniakov290 i only use the samurai jack style for tiering, thinking about it the samurai jack version Anakin actually showed Anakin as a powerful dangerous immature jedi. Best Anakin depiction for me. But yeah samurai jack version power level made the separatists scary. Ideal power level would be between CWs feloni and jack version. Leaning more towards jack version

[@momtchilboshniakov290]

@@You-to-beto be fair, in most of the original EU books luke is kinda in a middle ground between the two shows in his powerlevel, when he has time to concentrate he could mindtrick a whole warship from his fighter several kilometers away, whilst in the same book trilogy he has problems keeping up a physical enhancement. That's really the problem with the whole concentration based magic systems and how to scale them ... Also, after our conversations reminded me of it... I really wish they continued producing a samurai jack style star wars TV show... it would be amazing if they continued it like they did the actual samurai jack story.

[@paulfrench8319]

I love this channel

[@Zah396]

Where do the fight scenes come from?

[@semtex234]

To be fair Ventress was trained by one of the greatest lightsaber duelists of all time, snd she used the same form specialized in lightsaber lightsaber combat. So I'm not surprised that she did well against Luminara

[@athras8822]

Still absurd when an understudy beat a council member. Thats like a girl who picked up a lightsaber 30 minutes ago beating a seasoned and well trained warrior from a prestigious force user bloodline. Oh wait

[@JoniukasVader]

...ORDER 66

[@robertagu5533]

"If you want peace prepare for War..." Apparently there's not really a Sun Tzu type in the SW universe anywhere... Clearly the "newer" policies hurt more then helped. At Order 66 been attempted on the Old Republic Era Jedi Anakin an the 501st woulda either fought them off or inflicted heavy casualties at least

[@athras8822]

Pretty sure it was Plato who said that

[@robertagu5533]

@@athras8822 maybe dunno for sure which said it first BUT it WAS a shared message over the centuries. Sun though actually got people to pay attention an make it stick seeing his book on the topic is LITERALLY nicknamed the "Bible for Conducting Warfare" an basically is still valued an viable even to this day Millenia after written due to that it's timeless an the principles an strategies an tactics STILL can an even HAVE to be followed to succeed in meaningful ways. He even in detail took time to explain all the how's an whys too. Another thing our verses share even LITERALLY spelled out for them some people STILL can't get it right an mess everything up anyway

[@younotrelevant510]

To this day, the clone wars era will never hold a candle to the old republic. 💯

[@Callmesk8]

What show did those animated fight scenes come from?

[@cald1421]

I don’t think it’s as simple as the policies helping or harming. It’s that the Jedi of the movies were inconsistent. If they had more fully embraced their role as peacekeepers they never would’ve entered the clone wars and would’ve remained neutral. In that situation, the Jedi might’ve survived Order 66. Alternatively if the Jedi had decided to enter the war they needed to lean in HARD and fully embrace their martial past. But they refused to do so. Instead they chose a middle way, trying to represent themselves to the Galaxy as peacekeepers whilst fighting as soldiers and hoping for a quick war. That resulted in less combat training and exposed them to charges of hypocrisy, destroying their reputation and eventually resulting in their fall.

[@SuperAaron55555]

One ability says it all… Battle Meditation

[@csvickers151]

With all that conflict it’s not surprising to see that the will of the force might have been to eradicate both the sith and the Jedi because they are in constant conflict. But of course this was what the prophecy the chosen one fore told. And think yoda caught on that the prophecy was misread.

[@alsimmonshellspawn6021]

Exar kun killed more jedi in 6 months than vader did in 20 years

[@CorvusCorone68]

i mean, Order 66 did a decent job on most of em before the survivors went into hiding

[@The1Madox]

Malgus would have 1 v 10,000 the prequels temple (not really but it would have been a lot), that little attack force from the trailer would have been the purge only Anakin or Mace would have any chance and prob would have still lost in a prolonged fight

[@severren1095]

Jedi guardians from the old republica era would make the Clone wars era sith have a very hard time.

[@Crimethoughtfull]

So...a question to aid my understanding; why is it that Obi-Wan said that the Clone War was turning the Jedi into false Jedi, and yet the Jedi of the Old Republic who were always fighting in wars were not "false" Jedi and also mad powerful? How did the OR Jedi fighting them all the time not make them "false", but the new fighting did?

[@okkehoes3817]

Which music did you use? 5:18

[@Idkman707]

Valenthyne Farfalla should have listened to Johun Othone

[@LeePhillips-f5s]

Count dooku would’ve been right at home in the old republic

[@kevincalgta]

The battle master of the Jedi order chaos, Sinderraj and the Jedi been Zalo these two Jedi were killed by the exact same dark lord of the Sith Darth, Magus, Sith warrior of the reconstituted, Sith empire

[@cadescott2248]

Damn these old jedi are so good

[@HolyknightVader999]

They got a lot more practice, and unlike Clone Wars Jedi, they weren't pussies when it came to war.

[@brandonhackett7893]

What about master plo

[@willfowler6276]

Idek why they don’t add cool force abilities the Jedi can use

[@countof3everybodyOD]

Love the vid, but when mentioning stupid powerful old Jedi, how can we mention Satele only in passing? Seemed to fare pretty good against Malgus

[@aliastheabnormal]

If by wits about them you mean. We're gonna send us four and a bunch of younglings into a hive of angry man eating bugs, killer robots, Jango Fett, and Count Dooku . Flash our laser swords and everyone there will bow down to our swagging Jedi greatness.

[@harrymcdougall7923]

count deeewwwkuuu totally brah🤙

[@robertboykins5419]

When u have an era of turmoil and war n competition everyone gotta step up techniques, skills and all... When u have peace such skill aren't needed n over time what was considered S class becomes myth n B average becomes normal 🤔 if u catch my drift

[@tytrue1767]

There's also something to be said for the rule of two, and how by all rights it should have resulted in incrementally more powerful sith with each generation. By all rights the likes of maul, dooku, and especially sidious should have been the most powerful sith since long before Darth Bane. That of course doesn't account for the Jedis inability to defeat the ventress, savage, and grievous' of the galaxy.

[@Lobsterwithinternet]

The operative word is ‘should’. In theory, the Banite Sith should have been the most powerful Sith in galactic history. But due to petty ambition and jealousy from the latter members, they strayed from that path and stagnated only slightly less than the Jedi.

[@danmarusan2878]

There's a reason why the Sith are feared: There's no such thing as a weak Sith. Because they end up dead before even becoming a Sith. I dare and say it: If he would've been born between the time of KOTOR and SWTOR Sidious would've had much more trouble in fighting Jedi than in the movies.

[@pHixiq]

Yup, because the OR was in constant war. That's why they were better. Better trained and more experienced

[@brandonhawkins2367]

The disrespect to the likes of plo koon and other council members

[@alexhulea2735]

The Sith and Jedi weakened themselves through their own stupidity. The Jedi by shunning their humanity, and becoming more limited after every jedi crisis. The Sith first lowered their numbers through needless combat (more than was needed to pass on titles and power) and then diluted their teachings and promoting those too weak to be worthy (before Bane). The Banite Line lost most of their lore and traditions. By the time of Krayt, the Sith were barely a cult, not a culture. and would die out in time due to this

[@Spirit_Yoshino]

Just a product of there time. The Jedi of old needed to be warriors or they would have been wiped out. While the New Jedi Did not have such a need. Though I believe there should be a section of Jedi that do study to be more combat focused like the Jedi of Old.

[@tankprohp]

Not to mention Disney has no idea how lightsabers were built, you needed the force to build them, constant focus was needed to hold the blade at length! which means not anyone can just use a lightsaber

[@pablogr6960]

Ahsoka at the end of the clone wars was not even comparable to plo koon, Shaak ti, ki adi mundi, cin drallin or kit fisto

[@phildicks4721]

The old Dark Horse Comic Book Series Jedi Tales from the Old Republic showed how powerful many of these Jedi were. Some of the Dark Jedi and Sith of that time make Sidious and Vader look like choirboys.

[@connorharnage6697]

I said it before I'll say it again. I can't speak for Kryat, Talon or any other post Empire character. But until the fall of the Empire, both the Jedi and Sith were getting weaker and weaker

[@jeremyleonjonas7657]

Tbf there are quite a few clone wars and pre clone wars era jedi masters, who'd body Zallow and a good number of other old republic era jedi. And Darach was very much in a similar boat to Jinn in that he was the first jedi in generations to encounter a sith in combat. Just saying. Now, its obvious the average knight of the old republic had more experience in life combat, but as Zallow demonstrated that resulted in very textbook applications of technique. On the battlefield experimenting is a pretty bad idea as any mistakes get you killed. Compare that to masters like Qui-Gon or Shaak Ti (both used Ataru just as Zallow) who heavily hybridized their techniques and ended up with much more unique and, dare I say, flexible skill sets. Vaapad was not have been created on the battlefields of the old republic, after all. Heck, Plo Koon or Shaak Ti had fairly good track record in duels.

[@Zer0_._]

I think the main reason that modern jedi (with the possible exceptions of Grand Master Luke, and Yoda) is that the old republic was having wars every other week. The Sith were everywhere, visible. War requires powerful beings on both sides. It requires WARRIORS, not mediators. (Scammers will reply to this. Please report them)

[@Lobsterwithinternet]

Hello. I am a scammer.

[@arekpetrosian4965]

So...basically the lesson here is the same that one of my first martial arts instructors told us: Sparring is good, but there's no substitute for actual real-world fighting.

[@Direwolf9818]

Mike Tyson has said “Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth.”

[@midgetydeath]

No. Experience isn't nearly as important as training. It's just one lesson among many that helps tie everything together.

[@darylsdesigns6679]

Kao Cen Darach is a very underrated Jedi. This guy took on two Sith Lords with a saberstaff and his own standard blade with incredible fluidity and grace. I personally believe Darach stands as a great example of a combat-oriented Form VI practitioner

[@gabrielandjavierpinales3689]

Kao Cen Darach is one of the most powerful Jedi Battlemaster, he was so powerful against both Darth Malgus and his Master Lord Vindican in the Outpost of Korriban, he did beaten Lord Vindican, but he was ultimately killed by Malgus in their lightsaber duel.

[@wtfamiactuallyright1823]

Malgus got lucky.

[@darylsdesigns6679]

@@wtfamiactuallyright1823 I don’t think so. If you look closely, Darach was clearly fatigued once he took down Vindican, suggesting the Zabrak was around middle age in the trailer. Plus he just took part in a fight with two Sith at the same time. Even for an experienced fighter, combating multiple opponents can be very taxing. Furthermore, when Malgus unleashed his dual-blade assault against Darach, he was drawing on his rage to enhance himself and eventually broke through Darach’s defenses

[@wtfamiactuallyright1823]

@@darylsdesigns6679 Correct me if I'm wrong but, both were planned offensives too. This gave Malgus and co a HUGE advantage yet, he still had his work cut out for him, turn the tables and I'm not so sure Malgus would fair so well. I'm not saying that Malgus wasn't incredible but, lack preparation can make even the best fighters crumble when they're up against someone who has prepared. It's why surprise attacks often win out.

[@Blazeyblazeyblaze]

That fight was amazing to watch though, I wish he survived because if he did he would've of been a high threat to the sith empire

[@MasterUriasFenris]

There was even a knowledge loss in the time of Meetra Surik. When she lands on Korriban, Kreia tells her of the holocron that Tulak Hord had made regarding lightsaber combat, which had been looted either during Revan's time or the time of Exar. Kreia further stated that if the Jedi of Meetra's day (or Meetra herself) would face a Sith like Tulak, or one of the ancient masters, they would be like a child with a toy. I have to agree that the Jedi of the Clone Wars were ill-prepared to face the threat before them, which is why they were easily dispatched. The Jedi of the Old Republic would have easily defeated Dooku, Maul, or Sidius. The reformation following Ruusan was damaging to the order.

[@sebastiangibson9671]

So if they were that weak then then assume modern day Jedi powers are like throwing a teeny pebble on to a ship hull that’s been reinforced 100 times with meteorite metal

[@Lobsterwithinternet]

@@sebastiangibson9671 More like throwing a grain of sand at a planet.

[@game_boyd1644]

I don't take anything Kreia says about ancient Jedi or Sith at face value. Lmao she's talking like she saw the guy fight. It's just hype

[@Lobsterwithinternet]

@@game_boyd1644Then we can take what was said in the novels about the prequels as hype.

[@god-of-logic99]

They could have defeated dooku, maul and vader but they dont stand a chance against sidious.

[@marcusisgod2592]

You forgot plo, i recon he was prepared for battle with sith. He beat ventress with a broken arm and maul considered him one of the greatest jedi warriors of the era being the only one to beat yoda in a sparring session.

[@Blazeyblazeyblaze]

No the yoda sparring is a rumor from a wii game so until there is evidence to say otherwise plo in canon was just a slightly above average jedi master

[@cole1nonly294]

Yo guyz still a general, manz was the only Jedi of his era to ever use force lightning into a way that not only kept him from goin mod to the dark side but to incapacitate enemies n not kizzy dem like dem fools dookie our hideous

[@Blazeyblazeyblaze]

@@cole1nonly294 what the hell are you trying to say, I can't understand a word of what you just said

[@cole1nonly294]

@@Blazeyblazeyblaze cool it, I’m sayin plo koons a guy out here💯

[@Blazeyblazeyblaze]

@@cole1nonly294 I mean he's OK, but like he couldn't defeat someone like dooku so in my eyes he's just a above average jedi master, people make him overrated

[@kevinschafer6791]

The quote “Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times” comes to mind.

[@Gabu_]

It's a bullshit warmongering phrase

[@cald1421]

Like Donald Trump creating good times between 2017 and 2021

[@NorthernNomad93]

I think of this quote a lot with the world the way it is today.

[@Gabu_]

@@NorthernNomad93 that just means you're a tactless boomer

[@dadbodenvy4247]

That quote is basically astrology tier in terms of actually telling us anything about the world Most people just say the "strong men" are the political factions they support the most and the "weak men" are the political factions they don't like. It's driven by bias not understanding of history.

[@craytherlaygaming2852]

One detail I noticed that most people ignore is how in the prequels it's specifically mentioned by Mace that the jedi are nowhere near as strong as they used to be. Stating their powers have diminished in the force which is why you don't see the vast level of powers they supposedly have. Heck, you could say the Phantom menace is the last time the jedi could ever use force speed before their powers diminished even further

[@alsimmonshellspawn6021]

The reason the prequels era jedi and sith were so weak was because George Lucas didn't have the technology to do them right also Dave filoni and Disney don't understand the force how it works, and how powerful it's, the 2003 clone wars series did the jedi justice

[@podrickfookinpayne2329]

Mace was referring to their ability to tell the future and other abilities of the sort, not combat wise.

[@alsimmonshellspawn6021]

@@podrickfookinpayne2329 combat wise they lost many abilities

[@podrickfookinpayne2329]

@@alsimmonshellspawn6021 Such as? And in terms of 'strength' there's no reason to assume they lost any.

[@bruticus1496]

The phrase “peace breeds stagnation” comes to mind

[@marshalllatta2073]

I will love so much to see these Jedi they are the true Jedi knights of the force

[@alsimmonshellspawn6021]

The ancient jedi were at war all the time and the ancient sith lords were growing extremely powerful quickly because they were most masters of sith magic archemy am they did many rituals that made the dark side of the force grow stronger and stronger, the ancient jedi needed to adapt grow stronger or perish, also the force was trying to balance it self, ancient jedi knew battle meditation force harmony force sever and force light.

[@Epsolon885]

I don't remember his name but in legends there's a jedi council member with battle meditation. Edit: *Oppo Rancisis*, Yarael Poof(according to wookeepedia)

[@sebastiangibson9671]

Also force heal is a force power even before the sequels

[@sebastiangibson9671]

@@Epsolon885 I thought you meant bastilla lol

[@Epsolon885]

@@sebastiangibson9671 I was simply telling him that there were Jedi members in the prequel era capable of using bm when he mentioned it in his comment.

[@sebastiangibson9671]

@@Epsolon885 oh I didn’t know thanks actually (this ain’t sarcasm btw)

[@elrostar-minyatur9115]

Only through conflict one has a way to grow beyond his current abilities. These challenges and hardships and overcoming them make us stronger. Take away that conflict and they stagnate as everything remains for others as it is. (According to wise-nana Kreya)

[@wildcaveman5310]

And some people can’t even consider the possibility the ancient sith were more powerful than the modern sith.

[@BLAZEU.]

Ask most fans Darth Sidious is the most powerful Sith ever. the Skywalkers are the most powerful in the force ever. Yoda Mace Windu Count Dooku are the most skilled duelists ever. I don't buy it.

[@wildcaveman5310]

@@BLAZEU. I never understood why the “most powerful Sith Lord ever” lost to a bunch of ragtag rebels multiple times. Why he so easily got yeeted down a shaft. And why a young girl with barely any training reflected his own power back at him to kill him for good. If he was the most powerful he must also have been the laziest and dumbest.

[@drew8324]

@@wildcaveman5310 well, it’s actually somewhat easy to understand. Palpatine was never defeated by the rebels at all, they may have defeated armies underneath his name or his empire. However, he was never defeated at all until he met Luke Skywalker, and that makes sense because Luke Skywalker is a deus ex machina however, I do agree that Rey Skywalker/Palpatine whatever she wants to call her trash self it’s a modern bullshit that they used as plot convenience as a contrived method to kill Palppy Are, however, the Sith LordS of the past were really really strong, however once you get to the upper echelon for the top of the pendulum, you realize that the modern error ones are just a step above So basically, the meteors in the high tears of the ancient generation we’re stronger than the meteors in the high tears of the modern generation however, the top tears of the ancient generation were step below, the top tears of the modern generation. That’s the easiest way to see it.

[@wildcaveman5310]

@@drew8324 did Palpatine go head to head vs the armies of the rebels? Unfortunately no and that would have been a display of real power. Imagine if he faced off against thousands of them. Or better yet if those thousands had been Jedi. Wait that kind of sounds like what Tulak Horde did. You can really say Sidious lost a fight to Luke since they didn’t really fight. Although that would have been even more embarrassing for him to straight up loose to a fresh Jedi with barely any training… wait that’s what happened with Rey. Sure we see Sidious mop the floor with Maul and Savage and clean up 3 council members in 2 seconds but then he looses to Windu and then at best stalemates Yoda (which is a win in the big picture) but the “most powerful Sith Lord of all time” is only in power by not his own skill but luck (or the force which however you want to look at it). No disrespect meant to Windu and Yoda but the old Sith and Jedi were locked in near combat for centuries where only the strongest survived. During Bane’s rule of 2 era the Sith and Jedi had grown soft compared to what they once were. Bane recognized the ancient Sith were in another league. Why did Sidious get out of his chair and go down and personally smoke the rebels? That’s how the sith of old did things. Because they could. My bottom line is this: if Sidious was the most powerful of all time he must have also been the laziest and the most incompetent. And I can’t bring myself to say the man who orchestrated the final steps of the grand plan was incompetent. Did victory defeat him and make him lazy? Maybe. Not sure what other excuse he could have for loosing 3 death stars and 2 empires with massive armies and yet he rarely does anything himself.

[@arjunsarai3491]

​@Grant McInerney many of them are either young and ignorant or probably haven't read/played classic games. It's kinda sad at times

[@reverentalexanderchezeley-6367]

Very good. Also there wasn't the relentless red tape and bureaucracy in the old Jedi order.

[@irving-jotario3714]

Not only that, because of the Rule of Two, Darth Bane remade the Sith from conquerors and warriors to architects and schemers in the shadows even though they mastered lightsaber combat as a necessity while the Jedi degraded themselves because they believed their old ancient enemies are now extinct. In short, the Sith have evolved while the Jedi fell into obscurity. 😏

[@ObiBrownKenobi]

Ven Zallow is one of my absolute favorite Jedi