Why Perennial Cover Crops Don't Work

Perennial cover crops are often touted as the ideal way to grow food but our experience is, well, they just don't grow that much food. In today's video I talk about why perennial cover cropping fails and how it could be changed.
There are arguably better crops to be used as perennial cover crops and as crops to be planted into them. There are also probably better methods. I'm open to critique here! Still willing to try some perennial cover cropping, but not optimistic yet.
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[@bonniepoole1095]

Elaine Ingham (Soil Food Web) talks about specific perennial cover crops for different veggies. Creeping thyme for brassicas, clover for tomatoes, potatoes, and celery, dichondra for other veggies. In her videos she speaks in general principles and avoids specifics but this is what I gleaned from her online lectures. Another source tried Crotalaria juncea for zucchini with good results. A nitrogen fixing cover (like clover) would promote green growth but not fruiting; phosphorous needed for flowering and fruiting can be increased with a radish cover crop.

[@jakesgrobler1634]

Have you tried it?

[@ajb.822]

I'd like a half-ways permanent cover crop to use during the growing season for corn ( sweet, pop etc., and maybe keep the area for that for a few seasons. I'd add compost in the corn rows). I'm newer to all this, and while I'm a fairly long-time gardener, I've little experience with growing corn. My dad always planted a lot of sweet corn at the edge of a field-corn field, on our dairy farm. It looked weird to see it in people's gardens... ). I'm wondering if white/dutch clover would be a good fit ? Maybe with the addition of tillage radish ? If that keeps nitrogen over the winter, is good worm food in spring, but doesn't interfere with nitrogen during the growing season... ?

[@codniggh1139]

​@@ajb.822the best mix is corn tomatoes and beans. That was the milpa of ancient Aztecs and other mesoamerican people's who developed those crops.

[@Nurse_Nuggets]

You hit the nail right on the head at the 7:30 mark. We MUST breed for success in our area with our gardening practices. Stop trying to grow genotypes and phenotypes that simply will not do well in your environment. Buy seeds once. After that you should only be propagated seeds that came from healthy plants grown and harvested at home.

[@stonedapefarmer]

Re: breeding competitive crops - Joseph Lofthouse has done this. He weeds once, right at planting time, and selects the plants that can outcompete the weeds. I'm now working on doing the same here.

[@iamorganicgardening]

I agree and have done a 2 ft square area of cardboard with leaf mold on top 30 days prior to direct seed in to clover. Works 100 % better.

[@wobblybobengland]

Look into using virgin cardboard or paper. Recycled cardboard contains phthalates because of residues from treated glossy card.

[@omeshsingh8091]

Your comments section is great.

[@teatimetraveller]

In the uk its common to undersow or relay, cover crops into squash and brassicas. The timing is important. Too early and the clover becomes dominant and it effects the yield. Too late and the crop over shadows and prevents establishment. Once the crops have been harvested the clover is left as a ley for the winter or the following year or 2, acting as the fertility building phase of the rotation. Doesn't really work with no dig/ intensive management but you could leave it over the winter and tarp it off for the following crop. White/ red clover tends to fix most n in the 2nd growing season but it would still have a big impact if its just a winter cover. Some folk also do the same with yellow trefoil under tomato/ cucumber in tunnels.

[@kaylyngruber5775]

I think having animals to forage on this when fallow is an ideal way to increase fertility and still make optimal use of the space. Rotational grazing to reduce compaction would also be key. I don’t know that it’s worth it in an intensive vegetable context unless you need to have a more chill year, such as not having enough employees or during times is pregnant/nursing- not always things one can plan for though!

[@timschulte5654]

I found that taking a 6" wide strip of cardboard that is 36" long and stapling it to form it into a circle that makes a 6" raised bed that is 12" acrossed, then filling that up with compost does a pretty good job of keeping the live mulch at bay long enough for the plants to get a foothold. I don't have a video of it, but I might be able to find a picture I could send your way :) I got the idea from someone that I saw that was taking small boxes, and folding in the tops and bottoms, then filling with compost/soil to make cheap raised beds.

[@1voluntaryist]

After 30 years of composting for mulching my annuals I stumbled on a quicker, easier, richer mulch: SHREDDED LEAVES. My neighbors trees dropped too many leaves for her to manage in the fall so I volunteered to "clean up". I bought an electric leaf vac/shredder, 15-1. It came with a canvas bag which I slung over my shoulder, requiring frequent stops to empty. (This would have gone much quicker if I had help from someone pushing a large cart to trap the mulch.) I put the mulch in my 140 sq. foot, raised bed. It slowly, over a few winter months, broke down, leaving dark soil. I will NEVER compost again. Remember: Keep a cover crop, even if it's just weeds. Why? Building soil is done by ROOTS IN THE GROUND. Observe nature, learn, follow. Don't make work by fighting nature or following traditional farming/gardening, e.g., turning over the soil. Does nature plow? Hell no!

[@gabrielhickman3908]

Using clover as a live mulch was going to be my plan this year. I’m glad I watched this. I may try some mixed techniques you talked about. Using cardboard around my crops, maybe mulch a foot around them. Anyways, thanks for the video man, really helped

[@donready119]

The notill cover crop innovators may have a solution called biostriptill. For corn, prepare the early fall before by planting alternating strips 15" wide. One strip cereal rye or a perennial like white clover. The other strip is for winterkilled covers, usually tillage radish and peas. The corn is planted notill into the dead strips in the spring. In corn, the rye is killed after planting to make a mulch but you could mow it in your wider rows or crimp it, even better.

[@notillgrowers]

That's pretty clever- thanks!

[@cherylanderson3340]

What's meant by "crimp it"? Thanks.

[@donready119]

@@cherylanderson3340 A heavy roller with steel edges which flattens and breaks the stalk of the plant. Just youtube notill soys rye crimping

[@DeanWAnderson]

I have had good luck planting hairy vetch in walkways between double rows of corn. Key is timing so corn gets taller than vetch, then u can let the vetch go wild and deliver its N to the corn.

[@dyllanusher1379]

​@@DeanWAndersonare you in zone 5? When do you plant your vetch? I've had difficulty getting it established

[@Bluexin_]

Dr. Elaine Ingham recommends low running perennials like creeping thyme, which tend to make a longer root not branching out as much to leave ample space for the cash crop

[@JoshGnome]

I appreciate you sharing your results on this! I'm wondering if allowing the clover/perennial a year or more to establish before transplanting into it would yield better results. My thought is that once the cover has established, died back, regrown, been mowed, regrown, etc, the soil will be full of a slow release of decaying matter and nutrients, but those nutrients wouldn't be available for a year or longer.

[@zachlloyd9392]

I think it would work better with shorter covers, like Dichondra Repens. I also think it would work better in a 'till' situation, where you cut out and remove the cover in a radius, manually or like with a large hole saw lol. I just built my raised beds and plan on trying some of these perennial covers. I agree 100% that it would work better for backyard gardening than for market gardening. Lots of good points you made in the video and glad you aren't nixing it completely.

[@MrWoodsli]

One thing i could add that is talked about in the soil food web course is to pick cover crop plants that are really low growing. Then they won't compete for light with the crop or need to be mowed. It makes since that most people try this with clovers and other common cover crops but there's many more plant mixes to try out that aren't normally considered cover crops. Grasses aren't going to work in a system like. I haven't tried any of this yet. I just wanted to share what has been talked about a lot in the soil food web course.

[@notillgrowers]

Interesting. Yeah, I obviously could go lower, but for two months they it was really low-growing. Did they offer any other insight as to planting?

[@MrWoodsli]

​@@notillgrowers They said to get the perennial cover plants established in the fall so they have deep roots by the time the crop goes in. To transplant or seed your crop you can strip till about 1' wide (or in 1' diameter circles) shallowly to let the crop plants roots get established. Then the cover plant is supposed to creep back in covering the exposed soil once the crop plant is large enough to compete.

[@MrWoodsli]

Integral to the teachings of the soil food web school is matching the F:B ratio of the soil/compost to the crop. So the cover plants you choose should have the F:B as the crop. The cover plants are supposed to naturally maintain the nutrient cycling of the soil food web so when the crop plant goes in there's a thriving biological system to support it.

[@MrWoodsli]

It all sounds so good in theory and I really think it could work if done right. That being said I've never seen any examples of people pulling it off. We all just need to keep experimenting! Here are some plants they recommend trying: Dichondra repens, Irish moss, creeping speedwell, Gypsophila repens, and creeping thyme.

[@suffling505]

@@MrWoodsli I have heard about this idea and I'm interested to learn more. I am growing vegetables on 1.5 acres in the Pacific Northwest and I haven't found any good examples of growers utilizing perennial cover plants in veg beds. But I agree that it seems like it could work but that there hasn't been enough experimentation yet. In addition to the species you listed I've heard Herniaria glabra, leptinella, or even sweet alyssum might be worth exploring.I am going to trial creeping thyme, creeping speedwell and Dichondra repens this coming year. Would love to hear other ideas of what plants could work.

[@williamvanbeek663]

Great video. We use cereal rye as part of the fall covercrop mix for beds that are going into pepper, tomato, etc. Being in Zone 4/5 we let the rye grow up until mid May then mow out only the 18" spots where plants will go in and then cover in black plastic covers. This allows 2 weeks to warm the soil and allows the rye to get into a milk/dough stage before we terminate the remaining rye. End result is warm soil to plant in and a rye crop that almost fully (95%+) terminates with the final mowing. Not perennial but it does keep a living root growing much, much longer.

[@troypriddythr]

i have had really good luck with tomatoes planted in dutch clover and carrot cover crop.. and get some carrots too

[@TheVigilantStewards]

Thoughts that I'd like comment on: - When I started a cheap food forest in my backyard I focused on starting with slowing and spreading the water. I noticed that none of my watermelons, grapes, kales, or anything really did that well ever. The soil isn't great, but it was an experiment to see how affordably I could do something over time. Nothing established and what did had little fruit, and it was just kind of an anticlimactic resolution. The only thing that did well was the peach tree. - I really like the idea of using cover crops as a living skin instead of just chips, it's also easier to get ahold of for larger areas than chips or straw. it seems like annual might be easier though because you can come through with chickens and graze it all the way down before planting, putting that biomass into fertility. - obviously, having a perennial crop would be excellent if you could leave it there and reap benefits, but the question is how do we achieve those benefits? Could a perennial system be grazed down enough to allow planting but not enough to get rid of the perennial crop? Perennials don't have the benefit of being able to kill off the crop before it goes to seed in this sense because the goal is to have a long term soil cover solution. - I would say see what wildly grows there also over time and let that establish, but I haven't had much success planting into grass myself... also not in great soil. I do agree you really need at least a foot of buffer a couple of weeks before hand to allow anything you plant to do well. My goal would be find a way to achieve the promised results with the automation from moving animals on it to where it's sustainable at home and building fertility. The downside of doing it the easy way with annuals is you have to buy the seed. You can get around that with perennials but how do you get them to come back or to give way enough to the crops.... and like you said which crops do well with that? Does Geoff Lawton not have an answer for this? Perhaps the best solution is to have perennial cover crop all the way around the garden in a ratio of 4:1 cover crop to garden where the cover crop is what you scythe down to get compost material and mulch. To keep everything vitally living you would just need to keep compost and worm tea etc on the land and if you have biochar in the soil, I doubt a few weeks of having died off root systems would make all the bacteria and fungi disappear. To me integrating the permaculture food forestry ideas into home gardening or market gardening has been a challenge as well. Cover crops have the most promises of everything mulch related, and if you can get it perennial and regulated that would be kind of an ultimate set up right? So far, cardboard with straw on top of it for me has been what I've done if I don't have old wood chips... those two have turned out best for me so far. Edited thought: If you had a larger home space, you could section off areas to rotate onto so you let the perennials go for a couple of seasons and then graze them down like you would an annual... instead of dealing with annuals for a season it's more like a few years of a cycle with perennials. Perhaps you could go through the effort to set up the fences in strips so when you are done with the crop they come back in from the sides and repopulate?

[@burt591]

What do you mean by "slowing and spreading the water"?

[@TheVigilantStewards]

@@burt591 As water flows over a landscape the faster it goes the more exponential the destruction is and the less it soaks into the landscape. When you slow that down by moving it perpendicular to contour, spread it out, and let it soak in the earth, you rehydrate the hydrological cycle in the area

[@burt591]

@@TheVigilantStewards Oh so you mean to design the terrain so that rain water soaks in, instead of just passing by

[@TheVigilantStewards]

@@burt591 Yes, check out elemental ecosystems with zach weiss for visuals or earthworks install in a permaculture site design. Andrew Millison has great content for that as well as the Water Cup by the Paani foundation in india

[@TheVigilantStewards]

@@burt591 Oh and we will be covering it as well in the future, you're very welcome to check out our channel and subscribe :D

[@treehousepermaculture3310]

I would think annual cover crops grown before are good for growing annuals and perennial cover crops are probably better for a orchard or food forest. If youre having to reset the beds all the time it would be harder to kill the roots of perennials. Vegetables are also occupying the same layer of the canopy as the clover reducing air flow. This may promote disease. Cover crops occupying a different root and canopy zone compared to fruit trees makes more sense.

[@TheVigilantStewards]

This is my thought as well - but it introduces the problem of how do you get all those seeds continually ? I don't want to have to rely on going to buy seeds all the time for annual covers. I also agree it's much easier to finesse with a tree system because the ground can all be grazed and cycled on to generate more and more fertility for the crops that are unaffected by mob grazing

[@teresacid6934]

@@TheVigilantStewards Maybe the smartest thing is to grow your own seeds

[@TheVigilantStewards]

@@teresacid6934 That would be a great move, I only have done seed saving on vegetables and fruit. Have you ever propogated by seeds on stuff like ground covers?

[@sheila70]

@@TheVigilantStewardsyou ok

[@69thAndYorkAve]

From my experience with head to head trials, I have gotten similar results. Certain crops falter while others crops do well when planted amongst cover crops. Excellent analysis.

[@barrybr1]

i'm new to growing veg and thought I'd just ignore recommendations for plant spacing. What the hell I thought. Of course I managed to grow a whole range of slow-growing, tiny veg.

[@chickentender4037]

I did that too!

[@combitz]

Clover has been a nightmare to kill off, I won't use it again. I'd recommend trying a dense seeded mustard as one strim and it's a slow degrade with a lot of root in the ground. The mustard stems being strimmed 4" off the ground worked well to stop the birds having a go at small transplants. Just my experience this year.

[@zmavrick]

In my 2020 garden I tarped the area I planted my tomatoes and peppers in due to weed pressure, transplanted end of May then let a poor stand of white clover return. I had the healthiest and most productive plants I have ever grown. The tomatoes were of several varieties from cherries to beefsteak. The most amazing thing to me (and because I think they were so healthy) was they lasted through several light frosts before a freeze took them out. I picked my last ripe tomatoes the first week in November. Unheard of for open garden tomatoes in Iowa. I don't think this would work for a market garden as I did it, because I still had to weed the pathways and just left the clover. Weed pressure here is due to blown in seed, which I have proven with remay covered beds having little weed problems.

[@DjBolin-pe1zm]

I let clover grow in my path ways with about an inch of wood chips but I have ben cutting it and putting it in as mulch the tomato's has loved it and so fair no deaise pressure .

[@elvaquero5554]

I'm trying the living mulch this year primarily for weed control until I get my soils in order, but a lot of what I'm growing is competitive. Lots of nightshades and really weird cultivars of cucurbits that you don't find at just any nursery. Also corn that has been bred to be competitive by me. Last year, the stuff that did the best was the beds that I didn't pick the pigweed out, because the pigweed stopped it from lodging when I had a very intense downburst. Basically, my philosophy is genetic diversity and if it doesn't survive to go to seed, it doesn't belong in my garden.

[@seeker816]

Really nice content. Thanks

[@MsGrannyfrog]

This is fascinating for me thinking about next year. I am just a backyard gardener but I do grow a lot of our food (inlcuding many trellised winter squash that are trellised) in raised beds. I was actually thinking of using the clover but having a good open area for teh squash to get establsihed (it seems this year that allowing the vines to run along the ground and set secondary roots gave no added benefit)...And i was going to put pepper plants around the squash in such a way they get morning but not hot midday and afternoon sun (hot SC). well, its all very interesting was thinking of using white clover may just do the heavy advance crop of radish in the squash beds or some other low growing annual though it sounds like peppers may be good with the white clover. Enjoy your videos; they are among the most informational and usuable I have seen.

[@denisdufresne5338]

Great ideas in you video. I will need to make some testing.

[@curiouscat3384]

I agree 100% with everything you've talked about here. I only have a 2000 sq ft subsistence backyard garden and have tried several variations of intercropping and letting clover grow in the garden. Overall it's more work, timing is critical to get the new plants tall enough not to be shaded by clover which can grow to 12" during the summer. And you're probably right about how this can work for certain crops but I've settled in with growing clover and plantain and comfrey on the paths and perimeter and just doing periodic mow/chop & drop. (less weed management in the paths). Thanks for another great video - you're always so interesting :)

[@dietrevich]

Yup, you got that right, the trick is to have a weed free area around the plant at least until they have some big leaves, and then it can take over. I grow my winter squash like that and it grows all over the cover crops 2-3 feet tall, but in areas where I've kept it lower 8-10 they send roots at every node down from that height to the ground. In my experience they grow better i normally can't grow them if not like that and the fruits are pretty big. I grow Seminole squash and red kuri that way.

[@thearchivist382]

I think cover crops (at least for conventional ones like clovers) really only works if you're growing them as an annual where you till them right before planting the main crop as an organic manure/mulch or some other effective way to cull the cover crop so it doesn't compete with your main crop. That being said, perhaps it will work with a better selected types of cover plants, something that doesn't put out as much roots or foliage to compete for nutrients. I've had some luck using rocket/rucola as a living cover/mulch for my tobacco plants this year. Their roots are very compact and don't go too deep (very easy to pull out if needed), and applying fertilizer doesn't seem to make them too unmanageable in terms of their foliage growth. When I plant, I just pull out the rocket growing several inches around the seedlings and lay them around as mulch. The rest I keep in check with my weed wacker, cutting them down every two weeks to keep them from shading my tobacco plants and prevent them from flowering and throwing out seed during the growing season. As of now there's little difference in growth and health between my rocket-covered tobacco plot and my uncovered tobacco, but I only have to water half the time for the covered plants as the rocket cover maintains moisture in the soil very well. I've also notice less predation by insects on my rocket-covered tobacco, probably because the strong mustard aroma of the rocket keeps them away.

[@ginabean9434]

Thanks for sharing your expérimentations. Perennials are stronger than annual and they are meant to succeed and rule over the annuals, and fabacaes don't "release" nitrogen to the other plants until they are destroyed, so it's no surprise they compeat with the main crop. Still, one could associate eatable perennials (rhubarb, small fruits). It's pretty much what happens naturally anyway. Alternating winter perennials covers with tarp'ed summer cultures that control the weeds and removing the tarps after gathering and see if the perennials survive (it'd be basically permanent cover crops) is another approach. But I fear to experiment that because I want to alternate seeded and planted crops on the same bed.

[@ginabean9434]

I ended up having to live with the perennials because, well, there's no solution to get rig of them in no-till (not like tilling gets rig of them, just gives you a season or so to grow without them). The perennials + tarps works. For seeding, I use a thick layer of compost (4+ inches). Perennials WILL pierce over the compost before the crop is over (specially autumn carrots, squashes, etc.) but you'll get a harvest (most of the time ;-). Of course, to get a correct cash crop, you need to fertilize both the crop AND the perennials. Extra fertilization (3x maybe more): that's how perennials cover crops WILL work. And, again, don't count of fabacaes to share the nitrogens while they are alive, that's not how it works. So, fertilization, compost, tarps, aso: lots of management time and money 😕 But again, it's that or you move to a new patch without ANY perennials: so far I never found one, and I feel silly because on the internets, it's like they are never an issue for anyone.

[@wildedibles819]

Plant the weeds that you want or you will get the weeds you don't;) Clover is easier to deal with then some other weeds But yes i see compatition all the time thats when i pul the weeds back some Cardboard ive tried using this year not too bad with mulch on top Like cardboard better than weed block fabric

[@rosea830]

Butternut Squash seems to do a ton better in a raised bed with a trellis than running on the ground. Seminole and Tan Cheese type pumpkins do very well when my chickens plant them in the yard. We let them go feral and they produce until the frost gets them. Mulching the pathways on top of paper seems to make for less work, I saw your video on the paper and that with the tomato bed this year. A perennial cover crop seems to be something that would work well in a orchard or raspberry/blackberry patch. Cucuzzi gourds seem to not care at all about where they're planted as long as they have calcium/magnesium every few months. Speaking of cucuzzi, why don't people use it more? It's so prolific...

[@stratify9704]

Well articulated and in relation to what you are growing and why. Together we will find the sweet spots. Either way i believe we are on the right path. Thanks for sharing.

[@darbierancher4918]

We establish chickweed and clover in beds early spring in half of the beds and can knock down and mulch or mow a section to transplant into then let them grow back together. Works even better in the late summer when rain picks up to establish the cover crop in the other half of the beds repeat and transplant fall/winter crops into it a month or so later

[@ragtimemedia]

Yes my thoughts exactly excellent content

[@brittrucker7218]

We're not commercial growers but over the year i scatter white, red, crimson clover, phacelia and this year im trying egiptian and persian clover. Im a big fan of laying straw the following autumn to over winter. This year i have been laying card and mulching with weathered hay. I and going to plant my veg through the cardboard this year. For me the idea of cover crop is to cover the surface then kill it off (plough in most farmers say) or cover and as they die off release the nutrients back into the soil. I am practicing permaculture and no dig (not the compost method as you cant produce in reality enough compost.

[@jamaldavid5592]

I tried a full 10' by 10' garden bed full cover crop, then cut low and plant, the white clover cover crop was too competitive for all plants. That's why I use perennial cover crops in paths only. You are correct

[@rephaelreyes8552]

I agree. Mow your cover crop and use the mulches to protect your plant from the competition. I find that I have to put mulch on my okra 2-3 times per season because grass just grows that quickly.

[@tolbaszy8067]

Great video! I have been using an old steel wagon tire, about 4 feet diameter, to form crop circles. I set the rim where I intend to plant, work the area with a fork, mostly loosening the soil, remove sod and weeds, then add compost and other amendments. I direct seed or transplant in this "bed". I mulch the area between circles, with wood chips over cardboard, or I mow where mature plants will grow above weed pressure. While this method does not work for fancy seeding devices, it is easy to broadcast seed and control weeds in the concentrated patch. Irrigation is easier. My garlic was the best ever. Sweet corn and sunflowers grown this way seem to endure high winds better. Squash get a good start and easily compete with the fringe weeds when they begin to vine.

[@suffling505]

Great video! What do you think about other species of "cover plants" on a market farm scale? Some of the Soil Food Web growers discuss selecting cover plants that have more suitable traits than the traditional cover crops, which typically favor above ground plant matter that ideally would be tilled in. For the Pacific Northwest where I live that includes cover plants like creeping thyme, wooly thyme, dichondra repens, creeping speedwell, Herniaria glabra, leptinella, etc. So selecting for traits such as low growth habit to avoid mowing and shading main crop, non-competition with main crop, drought tolerance, winter hardiness, high photosynthesis, favorable rhizosphere, etc. Thanks for all your work!

[@notillgrowers]

Yeah, there may certainly be better plants to use!

[@Mrbfgray]

Usefully interesting.

[@yellowgreen5229]

Definitely I agree, though I have better results my idea for next year is compost molehills added a few weeks before transplanting relatively large crops.

[@certifiedhoarder]

I wonder if placing a half or third of a strawbale ontop the clover a few weeks before transplanting each squash in couldve helped smother it and foster the decomposers needed to prevent its competition.

[@jessicalowther56]

I'm planning to try out Fukuokas methods on an allotment in the UK. Also looking at land race gardening. Very interesting video and comments.

[@08dario08]

Follow Fukuoka planting method, he plants vegetables in his orchard into clover, also. Vigorous seed is essential, mulch is essential. Transplanting can be a key method. Foliar nutrient sprays are important to supplement nutrition .

[@notillgrowers]

Fukuoka was actually the inspiration here in many ways (and honestly for much of my farming). I did some foliar spraying and always dip our plant roots in compost tea or extract. I need to read more into the technical details of how he made these work, for sure.

[@TheVigilantStewards]

So mulching the area around where the transplant will go and using lots of teas are Fukuoka's way of putting veggies into clover with great success?

[@08dario08]

Carmelo Santini no I think Fukuoka just showed his seeds by scattering them or “seed balls “ cut the clover grass and mulched the seeds

[@TheVigilantStewards]

@@08dario08 Ah, bene bene, grazia. I always like the idea of seed balls but never tried them or anything. I just feel that seeds can be so delicate when broadcasting it seems cool to give them a cocoon to help out. I think in reality we just use the nursery because almost none of us do large enough scale to matter

[@foggypatchfarm6048]

I had decent success growing indeterminate cherry tomatoes in a perennial groundcover of horseherb, in central Texas. The latin is calytocarpus vialis. It has a central taproot and is somewhat frugal on water. It is most lush in the spring and fall, and is scraggly and less visible in mid summer/winter. It's distribution is TX, LA, MS, AL, and FL www.wildflower.org/plants/result.php?id_plant=cavi2 The hybrid tomato was Juliet, about 30 plants. Butternut squash did decent too, and so did large Chard. Onions? I lost them, possibly due to moisture. This was in a home garden. Now, I'm going to grow more clover. The type of clover matters, based on your plan. White clover is perennial. Red is biannual. Crimson is annual, and of course they vary in height.

[@notillgrowers]

interesting. Good to know about the horseherb

[@klemeneler7986]

The problem in my opinion is particularly in root competition; annual crops are very poor in competing underground. Perennials generally win. A general rule of vegetation succession (annuals -> perennial herbs+grasses -> shrubs -> trees).

[@esrcornwell]

I have let my winter squash run out of their beds. Which have no cover crops in them. As I rely on the new rooting they do on the vines to get away from vine borer. They spill out of my beds into my pathways and then into my grass and turn into a jungle. Fantastic production, I let them weave and wander there way around where they want. no problems with them interacting in full on lawn/clover. Like you noted good for sustenance farmers but not great for market.

[@theburnhams2925]

Sweet potatoes run all over the place here (Fl panhandle) but the dang DEER won't let us have 'em! Absolutely. They do shade magnificently (where permitted) so even if they don't (always) make potatoes, they're pretty and their blossoms are spectacularly beautiful. Plus I'm sure attract pollinators. They're sorta like the Kudzu of the vegitable kingdom.....(remember kudzu...the next great "thing" U.S.D.A. pushed back whenever. Crotalaria ("sun hemp") was another "miracle" crop and shore'nuff, once established, requires a "miracle" to eliminate...and don't let me get "started" on winged-bean (s)....Soooo much "good advice.."

[@TonyWeirPD]

Excellent video, and basically agree with your conclusions. I'd just add that the success (or otherwise) of planting into a perennial base layer depends as much on the cover crop as on the thing you're planting, and also upon the climate and season. Perennial ground cover tends to work better with other perennials or with long-season annuals. For example I've had good success with chilis planted into ... well, almost anything really, including a native species mix. Although they establish rather slowly, they persist and produce heavy crops for years (tropical climate here). What seems to happen is something like the dynamic you get when you introduce new animals into a flock: everyone jostles around until a new hierarchy is established, and thereafter everyone's happy. Small trees and shrubs do just fine planted into a regularly-mowed cover crop: again, they establish slowly (up to a couple of years) and then take off. Dry-season cropping with targeted drip irrigation worked very well with sweetcorn - with (organic) fertigation and an otherwise-dry soil surface, the corn is at a massive advantage compared to the cover crop, which is basically putting all its energy into surviving the lack of water. Quite a bit of experimentation is required, but when you hit on combinations that work, it can be a great way of doing things. I've also found that direct seeding works much better than transplanting as long as the seedlings are protected as they establish: I've had massive pumpkin plants thriving in a dense ground cover of perennial grasses and legumes. The basic point here is that, in the tropics, you have little choice. You have to keep the ground covered in some manner, or you're just burning off fertility. That means either thick mulch (organic trash, compost) or a living cover crop. It's a matter of choosing one or the other, but bare soil cultivation just isn't an option.

[@mikez1455]

I have many tall pine trees as barrier betwen my yard and neighbor. Pine needles are unlimited for me. There many crab grass "mount" (6" hight, 8"-20" wide)in my sandy soil yard. I cut them down to soil level and cover the grass base 95% with pine needles (6" hight, not 100%, 'cause don't want to kill it so they can be used next year). Then planted garlic, diakon radish , etc around the base. Hope they can take advantage of the unused grass root sponge for water and air. Let's see how it works next year. Pine needles can be moved to allow grass come back so the root spone can be resused again.

[@razingcanez717]

Three sisters comes to mind. I think tiny plant/big plant combo might work best.

[@jonstevensmaplegrovefarms3754]

I only run 700 Acres we are moving some of the row crops to a living cover. Perennials work fantastic just need to change your management. Not every plant is going to work in a living cover situation. Also fertility placement and timing is more critical. Perennial cover crops are a fantastic thing on a farm scale. We can use a perennial cover crop the next bring as a hay crop and then put a corn crop into it and take advantage of the nitrogen credits and other fertility credits hey, we can leave it all season as a hay crop, we can bring cattle onto to it or we can just terminate it and no till the cash crop into it. When we took the tillage away we really had to change her fertility placement open timing. Because the soil is not working very different then a full tillage system. As soon as we started banding are nitrogen and nutrients on the role of the cash crop the cover crops in between would still Thrive but so what are cash crop. The covers inside this year's crop are not helping this year's crop. They are building life and nutrients and fixing are erosion and helping our water filtration for down the road to help us to start to reduce the amount of purchased nutrients and Reliance of chemicals

[@notillgrowers]

Thanks for this perspective!

[@jonstevensmaplegrovefarms3754]

You betch.ya! Like you said some of them vine crops can be weak, nust need a little extra help! Also mixing families, legumes and grasses go together well, like corn behind or with alfalfa, clover, vetch.... Or using a cereal as the nurse crop to them same legumes. Wonder how garden products would grow with oat? I can see cereal rye causing issues in a garden with some plants not liking the allopathic effects of the rye.

[@kylelieb2977]

How about perennial crops in the paths and weed fabric on the beds. Or maybe even 30" silage tarps covering the beds during the "off" season and then pull them off just before planting.

[@eschmidtiii4673]

Consider wood chip mulch down your planting rows then perennial cover crop between rows. I’d say a 2’ wide mulched planting row. The mycorrhizal fungi will extend into the cover crop to bring in the nutrients and water. Maintain the planting row to not disturb the mulch, just feed with vermi-extract or tea. Build you alleyway density too and keep it healthy. Rotate your plant row crops to take advantage of biodiversity.

[@livingladolcevita7318]

Can't say for sure as I haven't done a scientific study but the way I see it is that cover crops don't give up their nutrients until their are terminated. It may be your plants can't access the nutrients which is why they are yellow. I plant broad beans (favor beans ) and when they are about 3 inches tall I plant Brussel sprouts, a Brassica, amongst them. Once I know that the beans have formed nitrogen lumps on their roots I then cut down enough beans to allow light around the plant and hopefully nitrogen to dissolve into the soil to feed the Brussels. Have done this for 2 seasons and seems to work well. Eventually all the beans are cut down and the Brussels continue to grow into the winter and benefit from the nitrogen. The beans seem to protect the young brassica plants when they are young to some degree

[@dorismeehan7260]

Chickweed and dead nettle grow well for a winter cover crop. I put down grass clippings to kill areas for transplants of tomatoes, peppers, etc. Fall planted garlic did not grow well in it - too shaded.

[@aenorist2431]

That is a *good* shirt right there!

[@notillgrowers]

Right!? Calipso's garden sent it to me. For anyone curious, there's a link to their facebook in the show notes (not sure if it's for sale online).

[@swamp-yankee]

I think a market garden is not the place, as you said, but grazed perennial pasture is the base of truly regenerative cropping. No till pasture cropping, and old school arriable ley farming are defenetly viable on a commercial scale. I operate a market garen, and I am 100% sure that the huge additions of industrially produced compost I rely on is not scaleable, or sustainable. Plus there's the thorny issue of contaminants in the compost. There just wouldn't be enough to go around if we were to try to grow all vegetables this way.

[@ButterflyLullabyLtd]

Thank you. Valuable information. Appreciate you sharing. I'm experimenting with planting a tomato plant on a clover bed, but in a pot with no bottom. I am also making Japanese Knotweed compost to see if I can get a bigger harvest from tomatoes next year. I've managed to make Japanese Knotweed compost in less than two months. Enough for one medium pot which I am growing near the Knotweed. We were badly mis-sold on our house and garden so I've managed to turn the Japanese Knotweed into a powerful positive. I would love to hear your thoughts on our 'Japanese Knotweed Garden' video.

[@paxtianodirtfrog8947]

I'm a little farther south than you but I think it's still comparable. I was wondering when you planted and if planting later would have made your C. moschatas more aggressive. I haven't tried much interplanting with them myself, I have just seen growing them in general seems to go better planting way late. Like middle of June late. The winter squashes, melons, and okra in my mind are often forced in ahead of their season by growers, including me, because they're needed for market as early as possible. But I honestly think they love a more brutal heat that makes most other crops suffer with. The times that I have planted way late these plants became the more competitive crops around them and explode out of the ground trying to take over the world. The biggest problem I have had with this is keeping them watered because that also comes with the brutal summer heat. I know you are well aware of your seasons and this is a bit of a ramble but to summarize I think there is another class of heat loving crops that are often treated like normal summer crops and therefore their full potential and vigor is often not seen. As always I love what yall are doing man!

[@notillgrowers]

Interesting, Paxton. These were perhaps planted too early in the season (mid June). I plan to keep tinkering. Maybe I'll give that a shot next season

[@paxtianodirtfrog8947]

@@notillgrowers Yeah I guess you waited as long as possible.What you tried really seemed promising, but I have had some flops on a few of my experiments this year too. I am getting more interested in your ideas of breeding for that environment. If I ever make it back to Bama I'm going to try some stuff like that. I don't have a lot of space at the moment.

[@starseedenergy996]

Thank you. Will see if it works on a small scale. Someone did a video about white clover and kale and was very succesful…small scale

[@grantraynard]

Read a study about this and the sprayed herbicides on a 8" strip where they planted and they increased their yields over the none covercrop plot

[@Technoanima]

It's funny you mention this, because tarping a lot for strawberries is a common practice.

[@BarriosGroupie]

Yes: I've been thinking about something similar for my ornamental garden where mulching with bark has worked very well in minimizing weeds, retaining moisture, cutting down on watering etc but... I'm concerned about how well it nourishes the soil eco-system, cost and work in replacing it every few years or even year. Hence I can now see more clearly that it's more efficient to devote an area for plants that creates good continuous compost, then using the decomposed compost, which doesn't compete with existing plants, to nourish the crop/plant area. And this is just another form of the tried and tested crop rotation discovered by all cultures throughout the world. So while experimentation can be fun and enlightening, we should perhaps study first what the experts have to say on the matter.

[@karlsapp7134]

If I plant squash with in grass or perennials I find that 2 applications of foliar from John Kempf does the trick to get the squash really going. With a short mowing at the end of June it will take over the grassy areas pretty aggressively. Planting into perennials seems to work better than a bare field. I have usually done a mulch strip or 2' of fabric to plant into.

[@notillgrowers]

Yeah, I think the physical barrier is key.

[@ciarataylor702]

Which ones?

[@karlsapp7134]

@@ciarataylor702 I have used his basic packages for gardens.

[@PhilKJames]

Love the 80s game show music

[@koreanature]

That's a great video. I will always cheer for you in Korea I'm looking forward to a great video. Have a nice day.

[@lorez201]

You mention breeding crops to be more competitive in the perennial cover crop environment, which is correct, and has already been done, more or less. Joseph Lofthouse has been breeding various crops (maize, wheat, other cereals, tomatoes, squash, melons, okra, etc.) to do best in his area with comparatively limited intervention, and part of what that entails is minimal weeding. The outcome has been crops with seeds that germinate quickly and tolerate/compete with surrounding root systems well. Not exactly a perennial cover crop situation (I believe he tills, and so the weeds come in after sowing), but the populations he breeds are going to be much better suited to that than inbred heirlooms or typical commercial hybrids. From what I remember he does offer some of his seeds, so it might be worth contacting him about this.

[@OakSummitNursery]

Similar to this when I field plant trees into an actual grassy field the cardboard and mulch is exactly what I do. Basically same idea, the tree is the squash and the field is perennial grass.

[@robclinton9249]

My understanding is that you terminate the cover crop before planting. Use it as mulch or till it in. Timing is critical. The cover crop is to keep your soil replenished in the non-growing season (winter). Or when your leaving fallow in your rotation. You wouldn't plant your fruits in the grassy yard? Right?

[@gardenfornutrition6373]

Training squash up a trellis allows you to keep mowing and releasing nutrients. But I grow squash for the leaf greens as much as the squash. Some crops will grow in perennial cover in cold climates if planted before it is warm enough for the weeds: flax, peas, turnip, etc. Flail flax and plant into the stubble for a great weed free bed. Of course it may not be cold enough in your area for this method.

[@lesliehollands2689]

Clover under Corn. I like living pathways. 👍

[@4DanBarry]

I videoed a garden in Alexandria VA . Cover crops rye plus field peas, it was stomped over in the early spring and the nightshade family transplants straight into the ground. The youtube covers a whole season. 3rd generation gardeners absolutely no till. Home garden with community gardens customers. Not wholesale. I am trying to get there in Leander TX, but the soil is a bit thin on my mountain. 1 inch after 3 years of cover cropping. Up to 10 species mix. May need to add shade cloth. No water except rain.

[@JohnPritzlaff]

My idea, in a semi-arid, semi-subtropical zone 9b setting, is to develop perennial productive crops alongside perennial cover crops (as well as perennial cover crops that are also very productive like strawberries and purple ube yam) on top a soil bed that has had a huge investment in long-term regeneration, such as a large-scale hugelkultur endeavor... For example we have feral cherry tomato landraces volunteering here in Phoenix, Arizona. These indeterminate tomatoes show some promise for being able to survive multiple summers and winters consecutively and remain extremely productive throughout much of that time, with tomatoes that seem quite desirable in their taste and other qualities. There is also a naturalized gourd of some sort which could be crossed with certain melons and squashes etc. I am attempting to perform such experiments, open-pollinating with a very diverse range of genetics. I want to develop several crops that, under a natural mottled canopy, and alongside a polyculture of cover crops, can act as perennials in Phoenix (and/or as self-seeding perennials). My opinion is that perennial cover crops would work better if global topsoils weren't already so depleted by human activity (big ag, fossil fuel industry, killing off all the beavers etc etc.). Just imagine trying these experiments on a newly cleared old-growth forest, or even under the shade of a living one. Pretty sure most peoples' soils are dirt poor compared to what was there naturally. They say we might not HAVE any topsoil left in 30-60 years, and that all crops will have to be grown aquaponically, hydroponically, or aeroponically.

[@clarkfurlong9233]

Hey Jesse, interesting video, we're experimenting with perennial covers as well. I loved the little trumpet ditty at start, can you tell us who it was and if it's available? Thanks!

[@notillgrowers]

From the Birdies, song is Skipping Class kzbin.info/www/bejne/f4q4fp6HhcSre6c

[@clarkfurlong9233]

@@notillgrowers thank you!

[@victorsr6708]

my take-away……. Sow a bunch of tomato seeds along with a cover crop and if you are lucky to have some surviving tomatoes you would have a competitive tomato seeds to plant in the future. NOT my idea I watched a video where a guy was planting 1000 trees of some kind that didn’t grow well in his area, his goal was to take the surviving trees and propagate those, fun project.

[@sailonsailon]

I recently started two plantings along these lines: both started with broadcast nz white clover "tamped" very lightly with a semi-decomposed straw mulch mixture. The clover germinates through the mulch fine. When we were sure we had strong germ on the clover, we transplanted broccolini (via soil blocks) straight into it. That was one planting. For the second, we direct seeded snap pea straight into the clover. They're just starting to get some height on it. About an inch. I'm excited to see how it goes. I guess the big difference here is that were not starting with an established cover crop, but rather establishing one simultaneously, as a living mulch. At least thats the idea (hope).

[@tmaduro4494]

New subcriber here: Great Thoughts!!! I appreciate your thought processes ^-^

[@pavlovssheep5548]

starting the crop in bottomless plastic pots placed between cover crop , so roots can then extend deeper

[@dustyeddy1046]

Hi Jesse, I just discovered you from John Kemp's podcast and found your general attitude and approach to growing food refreshing. I come from the Permaculture to Elaine Ingham's Soil Food Web approach, and I was wondering if you have given any thought to using perennial covers that are in the same stage of succession as your cash crop? Then ideally one could try what you would call an inoculating compost (extract and/or tea) that is has a F:B tuned to that succession stage to select for those crops while promoting the appropriate nitrate to ammonium balances. Full disclosure, I'm a budding SFW consultant with a lab, but my experience on the field is still fairly limited. So I'll admit this is a theoretical discussion, but I believe that matching succession stages is something the SFW community at large has some practical experience with already. This would also apply to living pathways.

[@notillgrowers]

You know, I haven't done that but I think that would be really cool to explore. On our new farm I actually hope/plan to set up some 4X8 raised beds and experiment more with several different perennials and see what I can dial in. We're doing loads of living pathways this year, which is going to be interesting. Already several challenges within based on the different crops that I had not anticipated (like using row cover in the early spring), but I'm not entirely abandoning the living covers, just wading in slowly. Thanks for the thoughts!

[@heidimarcinik6618]

As a SFW student as well, I concur. Understanding the soil and the microbes and plant succession stages would be a key element in this practice. I am trying perennials this year on a very small scale to test it out.

[@meh4164]

@@heidimarcinik6618 any updates on perennial covers?

[@heidimarcinik6618]

@@meh4164 I’m still trying to get creeping thyme and aster ground cover established, but I had miniclover growing with Parisian carrots, lemon balm growing among basil and tomato plants, and although borage is not a perennial but reseeds itself profusely (another option Dr Elaine has suggested), I let borage grow wildly among cucumbers and tomato plants. The soil for my cucumbers has been wood chipped mulched for 2 years and had a nice diversity of fungi. Despite the extreme heat conditions this summer I had the best cucumber crop thus far. My small urban farm sent 30lbs of cucumbers per week to the market which had never happened before. The tomatoes largely suffered by the heat here in Kansas, so not a good year to judge production.

[@DMcGaughey2011]

Not really sure about a large garden such as yours. Ive used white clover in my raised bed last year and along side ollas that i had decent pepper plants. I think it depends on the type of crops like tomatoes, peppers, and a few others that feed more on nitrogen. Im trying it again this year to see if i get similar results. I might add a couple inch cardboard spacer around the base of the plants since you mentioned it as well. I'm going to try it into my pots and containers this year as well. Im also doing 5 gallon hydroponic but i start the plant in soil and leave them in a 6 in pot of soil then place them on top of the hydroponic system for the roots to continue growing into.

[@mariusdrulea9049]

The seeds of these "stressed crops" will yield stronger crops next years, I'm pretty sure. I am going to try something similar to your experiment, so having the hints (mulch, seeds) in advance is great.

[@ajb.822]

Yeah, maybe. I'd pick the best specimens from the best plants from among the ones that did good enough. Then, I'd try to also pick from the squashes, for this example, which stored the longest/best.

[@angeladanzig8538]

I always thought you have to till in the cover crop, let it slightly break down, like a couple of week and then plant a new crop. Then the nutrients are in the soil and there is no competition, Obviously if you no-till, not good.

[@bennythompson1047]

perennial understory crops works well with vertical crops (tomatoes, cucumbers, cannabis, etc). I wouldn't do it for any low lying crops.

[@jonathanleiss914]

I wonder if it would work better with cover crops that had taproots such as red clover or burdock compared to shallow-rooted crops such as white clover. But those cover crops are often taller or don't mow as well so I don't know which cover crops to suggest but it could lead to lower riot competition.

[@lynapidblog7707]

Hello my new friend enjoy vlogging

[@Curious859]

Thank you! I’m a first timer and I want to make the soil rich. How would I plant cover crops on a land that’s already filled with weeds such as dandelions and many more? Can I plant the cover crops without removing them?

[@timothyhammer6154]

Yellowing if Tom a nitrogen deficiency. Which is expected when the cover crop is not chopped and dropped or tilled in. This is because the best cover crops to use are legumes which, with the aid of their mutualistic relationship with Cyanobacteria, capture nitrogen from the soil air. Now if the plant is left to live or is not a nitrogen fixer, generally a legume, then it will be a nitrogen sink in the soil. Even nitrogen fixing plants like beans will absorb plant available nitrogen that other plants need to live. The trick is chop and drop in a no till system. Plants store most of their nitrogen in the leaves therefore if you cut it it will decompose and become available to other plants. Now if you have heavy nitrogen users like grasses intermixed they will absorb as much nitrogen as they can and will choke any non competitor out of nitrogen. So leaving the grass may have been part of the problem. Having the majority or all of the plants in the vicinity of the crop not be nitrogen fixers may have been a contributor. An organic solution could be to spray fish emulsion if you’re already in this situation and you need the crop to produce. Thanks Farmer Jesse

[@andreashofmeyr9583]

Would tires work as guards? What is the general consensus on tires in terms of leaching chemicals? In my tiny garden I have build small frames with timber off-cuts to keep the grass out.

[@ajb.822]

Check with Echo farms in Florida. They trial and investigate and have recommendations on that stuff. A few things were covered, it was nearer the end of the video I think, in Justin Rhodes' video of that place back when he did their Great American Farm Tour a few years ago. So, not a more recent vlog I think he may have done there ( idk what's in that one). In that original one, I remember tired were mentioned and certain plants were better than others for use with them.

[@xaviercruz4763]

Jess, did you ever get to try the seeds of the veggies that grew in company of others to see if they became more competitive?

[@justgivemethetruth]

Thanks, you brought up a lot of things I've never heard anywhere else or considered. What was the point about the concrete blocks? Were these like containers, or some kind of walls to keep out competition? That whole thing about competing and the plants and fruits being smaller seems to throw a lot of permaculture ideas under the bus, doesn't it? Good video!

[@ajb.822]

Well, intentional food forest, permaculture, guilds all are a bit different than what happens just wildly. You're ( depending on your personal method/approach) grouping a compatible guild, not throwing a bunch of whatever together, and getting a very choked-out situation for, say, the single raspberry plant which survived. Planting a guild intentionally usually involves being careful to not have too much competition, and to have some human involvement and management, esp. while getting it established anyways. But yeah, some things to keep in mind when people think one can always JUST let things do what theg do, wildly, and have anything at all like what we're all so used to, to eat, as a result. That said, as far as fruit size, I have come upon fruits in the wild - they were in overgrown, not recently used pastures, btw . Which isn't ideal for the land but better than degrading continuous grazing vrs. holistically managed/plant recovery-based rotational grazing). The one was black raspberries and they were huge and AMAZING. They're very common along field edges and some pasture fence rows, ditches etc. here in western WI, and most are usually decent sized and good flavored, but these were "da bomb" ! I'm also guessed they were decended from a cultivated variety from a home-owner in the area, but idk. Ditto with the apples, as the tree was right where someone throwing a core from a tractor seat, would land. On a hillside between fields in our back 40, which used to have been grazed regularly but had fallen to disuse ( having to trailer them there and catch em again...). Anyways, this apple tree was waist deep in golden rod and I'm sure other weeds but I was trying to survive the GR... see over it... navigate my way to the tree... sure enough, it was worth it. It hasn't been a mirage, it had the most GORGEOUS, golden apples on it, and the taste was PERFECT !!! NOT BLAH at all, not too tart, a little... something towards spice. Just wow. Sadly, our life went haywire soon after and we sold that land & I never did get around to taking the new owner up on his permission for me to go try to find it again.... . Maybe I'll try this year, I'm only an hour away & I know more about cuttings now... .

[@justgivemethetruth]

@@ajb.822 My problem with permaculture is that I don't think there is any way it can provide massive amounts of food to feed the world. I am not lover of agribusiness, but if you have lots of different trees or plants all over a farm, and they are all in different soil, getting different light and water - they are going to product non-uniformly. Or say blueberries. Have you ever grown blueberries and noticed that they do not ripen at the same tum? Only with energy efficient robotic harvesters could be begin to harvest and distribute enough food, to feed the world.

[@przybyla420]

I think it works for perennial crops. Maybe something low to the ground and slow growing like some thyme could work for carrots or parsnips but I think it would be a total waste of effort for a market gardener. You need a rampant cover crop to be a good green mulch and outcompete weeds. But that means you will have to continually cut it back from your plants unless they grow in a columnar shape. Corn maybe? Or climbing beans?

[@giojared]

Great video! You and Mr. Sattin are amoungst my favorite you tube farmers... It has been wonderful being able to have access to all this info before getting land, so thank you for taking the time out of your busy day to make these videos. You mentioned you like seeing intensive home gardens, and that made me chuckle.... feel free to check out mine on my channel(started it to inspire those with very little space). I dont think it gets any more intensive than what I got going lol... And again thank you for your videos, I don't know how you find the time to make them, but I am glad you do!

[@James-ol2fr]

I know this is old, but have you looked into Dr. Christine Jones work and heard her explain the findings of the Jena experiment? That may be helpful. -kat

[@rochrich1223]

The concrete box is an example of container cropping. All sorts of containers would allow you to use the space while avoiding root competition. A biodegradable container (cardboard box) could get a plant started off strong.

[@kearstinnekenerson6676]

I’m looking forward to breeding my own crops I also want to grow some wild crops that grow in my area like river grapes and blackberries

[@carmenmoyers8514]

Im going to try a clover cover in my small-ish garden. It says its an annuals but then in the fine print in 1 place it says it can be perennial in my area. I guess we’ll find out next spring 😅

[@Soilfoodwebwarrior]

Dr Ingham specifically mentioned that clover often make a poor perennial cover crop due to their height in a biological system.

[@josephcutler8870]

Depends. In a orchard setting perennial cover crops absolutely work