Why Players Don't Need to Be Invested in Your World

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"How do I get my RPG players more invested in my world?" is a commonly asked question from many a game master. The truth is, your players DON'T need to be invested in your D&D or RPG world. Here I explain why.
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[@theDMLair]

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[@Gargs454]

One of the toughest pills to swallow as a DM is the fact that very few players actually care about your world. As DMs, we world build mostly for ourselves. Excellent reminder for all of us in this video. Keep up the great content!

[@princess20-sideddie95]

I see worldbuilding as laying the foundation of your game house. It's crucial, if it isn't built properly, the house can fail. However, when's the last time you ever heard anyone comment on a house's foundation? They're all about the architectural details and decorative touches that the adventures and characters bring to the game. A good world should just fade into the background and support the house that is built on top of it.

[@ValpasKankaristo]

To make your players care about the world, make their characters an integral part of the world! At lower levels this means friends, family members and enemies they have across the map: contacts who they already have a connection to and hopefully care about. At higher levels the focus may shift to the legendary deeds the party does and the realization of how much they have changed the world themselves. The King shows them favor. They become sworn enemies of archdevils. Places get named after them. Statues are erected for dead PCs.

[@grantdalfmithgrantir6680]

I’m blessed to have a player who when I have him some lore on the side was super interested. Some players don’t care, but the best players will get involved in your world and will be excited when you provide lore

[@michaelstowe2167]

The best advice I ever got about worldbuilding actually came from a video about Disney's Atlantis. To quote the video: "Any good worldbuilding is bigger than the fiction itself. Even though the narrative would never demand it, a complete functioning model of Atlantis's ecosystem was created. With considerations for heat, agriculture, water flow, pressurization, and a dozen other aspects. This vast worldbuilding was not for the audience. It was for the story. The more the creative team understood the ins and outs of their setting, the more they could utilize such a setting as a strength in the narrative. They weren't into cramming info dumps down the audience's throat to show how much work they had done. They knew that even if 90% of their worldbuilding went unexplained, it would be worth it because the film would be better for it." To quote the filmmakers themselves: "Just give the world a little more credibility. Even if a character doesn't stop and explain something for the audience, the fact that we knew what it was and how it worked would enable them to believe in it more."

[@johnushinski7876]

As a DM I enjoy world building just like some of my players enjoy puzzles, combat, and role playing. So just like any game everyone at our table knows that when a puzzle comes it is for one specific character and my players know if I give a little world knowledge it is because I have tied it into the hook for the next quest. So I get to give a little world information to satisfy my side of playing and my players get excited knowing that if I’m giving a quick world fact that a plot hook to jump on comes with it. I find this is a win win for everyone and my players have told me they enjoy more than the old way of me just dumping tons of world knowledge they never really remembered or cared about.

[@pzalterias5154]

It's strange to hear for me. Almost all players I played with were super hyped about the World and the Lore.I think both are fun to players. And the World is the main thing that changes from game to game.

[@CooperAATE]

I may be a DM, but what drew me to it was the Worlds that other DMs made. Why is this dungeon here? What drove that wizard to insanity? That abandoned cart, what's its story? I'm likely a rarity as a player in that I care more about the low of a game than I do about how much damage I can deal to some bandits.

[@theDMLair]

Yeah and I think that's probably because you're a game master yourself. Folks who are game master is a lot just tend to think differently than the average player I feel.

[@CooperAATE]

@@theDMLair I totally agree. Seeing how much work others put into DMing made me wanna be a DM, and now I'm 47 sessions into my first campaign! (I use a lot of your (and Dungeon Coach's) material to make it through, so thank you!

[@noahwilson3809]

. . .Wait, aren't the adventures, characters, strongholds, followers, powers, etc part of the world lore too? Because the way you described the situation sounds like both world investment and character investment are two sides of the same coin, and that the world investment is more of an unconscious thing.

[@dabeerdsgamer7763]

Yes those things are part of world lore, but as Luke described they are more emergent pieces; players care more about what they've done than what happened in the world in some other place and/or some other time. I'll give you an example: a friend of mine has a game world where he spent a VERY long time time developing the pantheon. He can rattle off any god's domains and how they came into existence and what their motivations are; he explains how the various nations came into existence; how the races interact with each other. And ALL of his players (myself included) simply let him ramble and completely forget what he has said for 20 minutes.... because it's not important to the players or the player characters in that moment; IF/WHEN the characters enter the territory of the knolls, THEN I'll pay attention to what he has to say about the knolls. I tend to DM with a more player's mindset. Yes I have developed nations and politics and pantheons, and variations on races, etc. But I try to only give information pertinent to the moment. And I KNOW that many sessions down the line that information will be important again and I will reiterate it to my players. And I never get frustrated that my players fail to remember things about my world. In addition, over the course of years, I have run many campaigns in my world, and I always try to link them together somehow. Even when it's a current player's former character they don't care. At best they say, "that was kinda neat. You used my old character as an NPC".

[@noahwilson3809]

@@dabeerdsgamer7763 That's kinda what I was talking about. The world revolving around the actions and decisions of the players.

[@theDMLair]

Yes DaBeerds put it perfectly.

[@genlando327plays2]

I'm going to be honest, when I read the title I was expecting to completely disagree. But once you explained the distinction between the world and the game/story I completely agree

[@kazzsaru]

Its an important distinction too. Many a DM needs to know where world ends and campaign begins.

[@emessar]

I'd say ... "Make it relevant to what the players are doing." Does the wizard want to create a powerful magic item? Cool, there is only one organization with that formula, and they don't give that out to just anyone. You need to know how to gain their trust and that means you need to know their values. Now you have the formula, but you need the components, but it's in a place that is under siege by an enemy kingdom. Now you have that to navigate and interact with. How do you negotiate with the leaders of the attacking army? Then who do you talk to once you're in? Rogue decides to steal a diamond the size of a fist from a local noble? Now they're going to learn the hard way about his connection to a circle of diviners that investigate high profile cases as well as a meeting with the local thieves' guild who are feeling the pressure after the heist. Players start caring about the world when it's something they have to navigate.

[@jasonnewell7036]

I must be spoiled as a GM because I have played for almost 30 years, and have consistently had players who have been incredibly invested in the worlds I have run. I find this a little misrepresentative, as I feel there needs to be a bit of a firm definition as to what we mean by "investment." While I see the point you are making, I disagree with the wide brush that you are taking to the subject. I find the same disagreements with the angle being taken recently about not being a storyteller. I feel these issues are a lot more complex than what content creators are expressing.

[@jgr7487]

if you homebrewed your campaign's world, you can always give players room to name locations or NPCs, to describe certain places, & to create other stuff in it to which they will be attached because it's theirs.

[@Spiceodog]

I think the world matters a lot more to them when they’re at a high enough level that they are really changing it. Like in aerois on KZbin, they’ve went from level 2 to level 16 so far, and they’ve met tons of npcs that they love, awesome places that they care about, and at the power level and in game experience they’re at, it matters to them because their stories are tied to them and they can make a significant impact on it

[@ThalonRamacorn]

Dunno, for me as a GM my priority is that I have to provide a good story, which involves a good world where that story takes place. All of my players loved my worldbuilding so far (ok, "all" is a bit of a strech... but most). I see where you are coming from, but enjoying the game comes from various parts of the game itself, and one huge part is worldbuilding. In my opinion at least.

[@Boss-_]

I keep having to tell people this every time they say they've "written out the story" or "mapping out the entire world". As a DM I dont even care that much about the world anymore. I try to keep it largely consistent and sensible, but it's just a backdrop and guideline for things and events. Mostly I just care about making the actual game fun for everyone involved session to session. Similar opinion on story

[@njflyersfan74]

I agree 100% with this video, as a DM I am very much thinking the same with Luke on this one. I still have fun writing some (small) lore for areas of my world map and such of course...but I also just enjoy doing that too, so frankly I don't care if the players won't learn that lore 100% -- because this whole hobby for me is just being creative and having fun doing it, if I have fun doing it its never "wasted time" (at least in my mind).

[@notrebelbuffoon522]

you forgot to mention how the Party almost decided to stay in the tower, and let it take them to wherever it would appear next and effectively end the campaign you were running for them early.

[@PapaSmerf008]

While I am wrapping up my current campaign, I am working on a homebrew world that we will start. I am also sprinkling in one-shots in that world before we start the campaign. The one-shots serve as a fun way to get a short overview of each major region of the world which will help players build characters that fit well into the world. That is about the extend of the world investment I expect from the players.

[@bluespruce786]

Excellent and very useful insights here! Great vid, thanks for posting it up!

[@erc1971erc1971]

I must be a lucky GM - 3 of my 4 players are invested in the world. I am running a 2nd edition Forgotten Realms Campaign. My player who's character is an Uthgardt barbarian went out and bought some books to read up on the Uthgardt. Another player is playing a cleric of Mystra who has an interest in the ancient Netheril Empire - said player gets excited anytime I hand out a bit of information on the history, etc. (which will all feed into the finale plot line BTW). Another found Forgotten Realms so interesting he got too invested in the world and was reading up on everything about it on the wiki; I had to ask him to stop as he was going to ruin surprises, etc. that were to happen down the road. The one player who is not invested in the world is playing a trickster Pixie and is happy playing a practical joke or two each game session, so no problem there.

[@motleycruerocks159]

Jeez, if I thought for a second that my players weren't interested in my world I'd either revamp it altogether or just stop the game. My players typically don't care at all about the "adventures" or the combat and whatnot, they're roleplayers through and through. Great sessions for them often involve minimal combat and adventuring if any and large amounts of roleplay and interacting with the world around them

[@jamesaust3272]

If you're playing a dungeonslog where you go from one room to another and kill things, then there shouldn't be an expectation of player buy in. However if you're playing a traditional game, you have to understand this is a game about telling a story. The DM creates everything, the players are expected to "buy in". This means a basic understanding of the world, and sincere concern for their actions.

[@orngenblak4296]

In fairness, Robert Jordan started coming back on his own with Knife of Dreams. But I agree Brandon Sanderson did a fantastic job!

[@greenhawk3796]

I have 1 player who likes learning about my worlds, and 1 player who never lets that player take the few minutes to ask questions or get info. Player B will usually say "k well we dont need this so lets not spend all night on it" Player A gets to do his thing anyway, and player B shuts his mouth now that i've spoken with him.

[@Spiceodog]

I didn’t homebrew the world but I read a whole as 450+ pages of that book that I bought, I’m invested AF. ( Midgard world book from kobald press in case your wondering, I highly recommend it

[@Jon71992]

I think from my prospective, yeah as a DM is fun to world build - but then from the other side, I see it as if they care about what is going on in the world, they can kind of of pick something up that seems interesting to them and from there seek it out/ get involved one way or another - which is where that emergent story telling would come from.

[@berktheblack9812]

The players should have bought into your world concept at the start of the game. If they aren’t immersed in the splendor of your game concept so be it. They will be affected by it, as you as the DM will be using it as a framework to decide what happens based on the player’s actions. In this matter, it’s OK for the DM to flesh out the world design beyond what is seemingly appreciated by the players. It gives you inspiration for flavor text when describing things, helps when making political / social interactions, and may even affect some game concepts (worlds with limited magic or lower technical evolution for instance). These little tweaks to a “generic setting” will keep the players on their toes. Also keep in mind that while you might not think the players care about these details, they might. A session without comments about the world itself might just mean it is clicking along just fine, and it is not overshadowing the more important concerns that the players have. That doesn’t diminish its importance.

[@mykediemart]

oh the teleporting tower ... from Krull I have lifted this one as well. It can suck when players don't care about you world but as long as they are engaged and having fun it's a win

[@theDMLair]

I've never seen Krull.

[@JTheTeach]

Its best when the players ARE invested in your setting, as it makes their choices have real pathos, and thus the roleplay is more authentic and satisfying.

[@an8strengthkobold360]

I recommend trying to get them invested in specific places instead of the world at large.

[@RyuuKageDesu]

My goal, for my self and my players, as far as the world, is simply internal consistency. In my experience, the more consistent the world is, the more invested the players will be in that world.

[@paavohirn3728]

That's a good point! I'm always fascinated by the worlds in fantasy literature as well as rpgs so this is actually easy to forget.

[@chippiebeal4344]

Wheel of time is great and Brandon Sanderson's stormlight archive is amazing as well :p

[@timbuktu8069]

I am amazed by all of the You-Tube videos on"How to create worlds" and "How to make world maps". I run a real world pulp fiction/Indiana Jones/Call of Cthulu game. I have all the information I need just a Google click away. Yet this information almost never comes up.

[@jacknerdlord3244]

I think for some people "invested in the world" translates in their mind to "players respecting the work the DM has put in"

[@28mmRPG]

Spot on... what I do, in order to satisfy my own "building directives" is while the players are doing what they want to do (delves, ridding threats...) I have hints of different things happening in the background (the good Baron of the town gets a visit from a contingent of Knights from the Evil Duke, the semi-cordial event causing tension with the NPC's) the players can opt to "know more" or carry on... Players still have their agency, You as a DM can play the world at hand, evolving... perhaps one day the players return to town to find out the Good Baron is now "replaced"... and the story goes on...

[@ChrisTheWeak]

Most people can't just comprehend an entire world. It needs to be more specific. Characters start invested in themselves and the game. Get them invested in some characters, in some small settings. Move up to them being invested in villages, towns, cities. As they level up and interact with more people and more power and influential people have them interact with more aspects of the nation that these people and cities exist within. Only when characters actually care about aspects of the world will they care about the world, as a vessel for all the things that they actually care about.

[@TheBedevilers]

This is the cold hard truth that some DMs really struggle with. A world needs to be really expertly created for players to even have a remote chance of actually caring about that world. Even if it is perfectly created, there is a chance the players still won't care. For example I think Middle Earth is expertly crafted but I still know people who have read the books but didn't actually care about the world as much and instead just liked the stories and characters. To me it is a goal that isn't impossible to achieve but the amount of effort involved for the small chance that your players cares is simply not worth focusing too much on. You can spend that time working on so much else and perfecting every other part of your game and be far more likely to keep your players excited about the game rather than the world.

[@terrainaholic]

Drop a history or lore as a foreshadowing and they need that to get some where. Then the players are rewarded for paying attention and learning some lore. Keep positively reinforcing that.

[@Fnordathoth]

I'm a very lucky DM, every group I've run games for since the late 80's has been deeply invested in the world I created. I'm still using the same world I've had since since '87 it has a rich, long history due to actions from previous campaigns within it. It's vastly different from when it started, including geographic features, but at it's core it's the same world and I've never had a player that wasn't interested in the lore, both past and current.

[@crimfan]

I think the lore has to be relevant to the players, so you can't just have one big lore dump. If you want it to matter, have adversaries drop it, or have dealing with the adversaries depend on it. Alternatively, have lore matter to a PC , say "you came from a mysterious heritage and don't know about the origin of your folk...." Having an overall idea of things like the pantheon, the economy, or the setting (especially things that deviate from the book) is relevant but one doesn't need tons of details, just a rough notion, with placeholders to fill in those details if the players start poking around in there. If the game is rather Bronze Age, for instance, trading's a thing but Renaissance Era things really aren't, though maybe some kind of fancy artificer may introduce them. One of the other things that can be good is for a DM who's decent at writing to write some kinds of game setups that involve the lore between sessions, say glimpses of what made the Big Bad become the Big Bad or to foreshadow something that the PCs will encounter. Again, it's relevant not just about some random happenings in a town the PCs aren't even going to visit. That can really help scratch the itch of "but I want to get my world out!" without dumping it all on the players in the context of a session.

[@archersfriend5900]

I have a beginning and end in my campaigns, I normally use other sources as a basic background (forgotten realms, etc.)I throw in a few plot hooks and over riding conflict, then each session is prepped on the actions and interests of the party. Not much of a world builder, more of an improvisor.

[@nabra97]

Have a bit opposite problem as a player. I'm really interested in worlds, lore, and stuff like this (possibly because I have been creating an frpg world for 6 years myself; you may call me a GM or not, it's a bit of gray area). And I feel like sometimes neither other players nor DM are interested in my attempts to understand what's up with this archipelago and why so many reptiles are here (not really sure it is any reason). I ended up creating some minor elements of the world on my own (DM is OK with it). Yes, I do agree D&D just isn't the perfect game system for it, but I like other parts of the game too, it's just my weird preference.

[@9akisha9]

I actually got players who get thrown for a loop if they don't have a world they can really read up on or something. With one of them I know it's easier running in a published setting. The other one always said how they can't get behind the world (though it was Forgotten Realms, also they often said it in a passive aggressive way), but they didn't have the time to read up on it. We explained what we could in the session. But it was also hard for them to find a time where we could explain it to them out of game. It was frustrating. Since I don't play with them anymore, one less worry. I got one group where they're excited to explore the world, because they themselves like to world build and really enjoy that stuff.

[@timbomb374]

Kind of accurate to real life too. I care more about people I'm close to than the rest of the world. Just how we are built.

[@nickwilliams8302]

Sanderson's stuff is really great. Can recommend. Quite a lot of what he says would be just as helpful to players as it is to DMs (and aspiring authors of course).

[@drewmarteny1495]

I think it also matters what rpg you are playing there are some that especially those designed more for intrigue than battle that promote investment in the world

[@croissant2434]

I think before this video, I was prokecting the fact that I am a huge lore nerd for "what is a game". I am someone who *love* getting lore, and trying to understand the world I play in. but now I just realised how silly it was. since no, not every player are worlds archeologist/historian XD

[@theDMLair]

I don't think it's silly if it's something you enjoy. Everyone has things that they like and not everybody else needs to like them and that's okay.

[@croissant2434]

@@theDMLair oh, I didn't mean it like that. it was silly to think everyone was into digging lore like this. something I never actually get 'till now should have been clearer, sorry. ^^'

[@evansiegel5660]

I see getting players invested in the world to the extent of if something happens in it then their characters should care about what’s happening. It’s hard to run an adventure when you’re like X kingdom is being attacked by Y kingdom, but the players’ characters could not care any less because they don’t care which kingdom wins or losses

[@IngloriousPirandello]

So the world, for the players, is like a tourist playground. As a tourist you can like some bit of information but it isn't your "life" or your "job".

[@timbomb374]

I really just want to have a campaign where everyone travels around a fantasy world in an RV

[@michaelwolf8690]

The focus on adventure disembodied from the game world is a uniquely dungeoncrawl mindset. And if that's what your table is about you're very right, who's marrying who and why anyone wants to stop it doesn't matter much when you're 50 meters underground warding off hungry slimes with torches. If you're running a more political campaign, or a kingdom-building game, if you're running a sandbox or West Marches campaign, world events, history, and the drives of important characters are important for the players to understand. And finding a way to highlight that information is important to the GM running those games. As players grow more powerful and have a more broad ability to influence the world around them, knowing if what they're changing is good or bad is much more important.

[@Ambers128]

I played in a red hand of doom 5e conversion (it's a 3.5e module) that the DM used out backstories to integrate us in the world. One rogue, this was where he was from. The bard was the child of a village's leader. The monk stood to inherit the role of chief in his tribe. My character discovered she was really a dragon and those who'd killed her parents were trying to take over the vale. We cared bc the world had been tied to our characters.

[@Ambers128]

That rogue also decided to stay when the adventure was over and help rebuild. The player picked up a goliath cleric (not the mod). Sadly, the player passed away last year. But his character lives on in game the game world.

[@scottwalker6947]

Like the Fortress of the Beast in movie Krull.

[@Brashnir]

For 90% of the campaigns out there, I agree with you. If you're just dumping your characters into the Forgotten Realms or some massive, sprawling place as a backdrop to adventure, the world isn't going to matter to your players, and probably shouldn't. However, if the nature of the campaign is intrinsically connected to the nature of the world, getting some level of buy-in from the players is important. As an example, if your campaign is designed to be a political intrigue campaign, where the players are thrust into a position to influence and determine the outcomes of 5 city-states looking to extend their influence on the region. If you are running that sort of campaign and your players don't care about the attitudes and goals of the 5 city-states, everyone is in for a bad time. When running these sorts of things, I find there are a couple things that really help to get players involved. 1 - Mine player backstories when creating the differing factions they are going to be interacting with. If one of the PCs has an aunt who married into the royal family of one of the city-states, that can be a catalyst for interaction and a catalyst to show either their good, or bad side. 2 - Introduce the various factions one at a time. If at first, you introduce them in a good light, find a way to later show their darker side. If you first introduce them in a villainous capacity, find a way to show them in a more positive light later on. Try to ensure that even when the party doesn't like one of the factions, they also have to acknowledge that they kind of have a point. That their ideas have merit, even if they're not in line with the players'. A living, breathing world, where opposing factions have both good and bad elements within them leads to a situation where the players will have strong opinions about each one, and (hopefully) different players will have different opinions about each. This will lead to debate, both within the party and between the party and the different factions. In my mind, this is the most satisfying sort of campaign to run, but it's also pretty tricky to get right.

[@GiblixStudio]

We DM"s create worlds and a lot of depth and stuff happening behind the curtain.... because that helps US to decide what content to create. it helps US to improvise since we know the connections, motivations and more that happens behind the screen. The players don't know any of that nor do they care. For all they care we DM's don't create any of the depth and world. Players and the PC's only care about what directly impacts them. If your players have trouble interacting with the environment/pc's it has less to do with the world. And more that the DM isn't creating interesting adventures and NPC's to interact with along the way. Also don't lore drum tons of history. Show it instead. There was a dwarven empire in the past on which the current civilization is build. Well have the party stumble on some ruins, hidden trapped tombs dedicated to old spymasters of the empire. Adding some decorative pieces with small parts of lore if they want to do a history check on the depictions or not. Meaning you put it in your players hand if they want to interact with what they care about. The correct question would be... Are the players invested in the Setting of the game. During your pitch as DM you'll explain what kind of setting you'll be playing. Is it fantasy, sci-fi, cyberpunk etc. Players need to buy into that though. And you get that done before the first play sessions is even played.

[@Frederic_S]

The world is like the foundation of a house. Very important, but you don’t see very much of it.

[@darttgaming1515]

10 out of 10. Can confirm. You need to know about your world, your players only need to know enough to get from town to the adventure. The more you tell your players about your world, the less they will care about it. You can use inkarnate to produce a huge beautiful world, but I wouldn't hand a world map to my players. Give them just enough to keep them interested. No more. Players, if they care at all, will love it more when they discover things on their own.

[@anonymousscience4095]

The reason why you should want players to be invested in your world is to add verisimilitude to your games, which increases immersion, which increases fun. The way to get them to care about it is to bring elements of your world into the adventure. Make possible solutions to problems they encounter elements from your world. If it is not part of the adventure, they almost certainly don't care.

[@khogetzu8429]

I think that when you're in the role of DM, it's great if you're a good writer/storyteller. But, it's more prudent to be good at improvisation. You'll find yourself a bit disappointed if you've spent a year developing worlds, characters, environments, etc, if your players truly have the choice of where they want to go, and what they want to do. You've just put a lot of time and work into something that one player being chaotic might derail. Now you have to scramble to either bring things back on track, or give them alternate scenarios. And you can wave bye-bye to your finely crafted, artisanal storybook settings. Just have fun. If you want to write a book about your world, you've already done that work. Just don't expect it to be impressive to players that probably won't experience half of your work in-game.

[@theDMLair]

I agree that improvisation is an extremely important skill for a Gamemaster to have. I would also say that I use my storytelling abilities while I'm running the game while I'm improvising things. Storytelling doesn't necessarily mean planning something out in advance. Game master can also story-tell while improvising scenes.

[@khogetzu8429]

@@theDMLair Absolutely, I agree. The comment I made was more about overthinking and planning to the point of self-discouragement. I once knew someone that played a tabletop (not D&D, but I can't remember for the life of me what game it was) whom spent months world-building and character-crafting. They spent the same amount of time getting their players so amped and ready to play this campaign. I know they started, got at least two or three sessions in, and then just dead stopped. So I ask them what happened. They tell me that they had cancelled the rest of the game because they were getting frustrated when the choices their players made went off the beaten path, so to speak. They didn't fault their players. Specifically what they said is that they realized all that work went in without considering this as a possibility. They went into this game like they were writing a novel, with characters that were going to play their roles, and that came around to kick their butt. So, just to avoid frustration, because I can very well see myself falling into that same trap, when I started writing my own campaigns, I do two or maybe three weeks worth of work, and then just improvise the rest.

[@qualthos1]

If you want your players invested in the world have THEM make the world. During the adventure, have them narrate the history. When they meet a king, have the PLAYERS make up a story about why he is so cool. When they visit a new country, have them make up what kind of culture it has and why. If you want the players to be invested in the world, don't make it YOUR world, make it THEIR world.

[@theartofcompetition5965]

world building is just a thing you have to do so your not stumbling and improving too much during gametime. at least for myself its more like a chore. Thats probably why this guy wants people to be invested in it because he worked his ass off on it.

[@juca9279]

Love the catcam

[@MakCurrel]

If you don't have a general idea where you want to end or what you want to tell. And it's up to players to tell the story. You risk end up having them having a headless plot. And that might end up giving the finger to the BBE and ignore the threat and just do their own thing.

[@lunaredelvour2972]

Subtlety is the biggest piece of advice I can give tbh. Weave details into the quests your players go on and offer obvious access to bits of lore. If they engage with lore, you know they're interested. If they don't, then they're not interested and shouldn't be forced into it. I personally make sure quest givers offer hints/details if they'll be relevant to the connected quest, but everything else stays totally optional. Some of my players care a lot, and others don't. I let them make that decision and don't shove it down their throats. Plus, the better you know the world, the easier improv is going to be, I've found

[@lunaredelvour2972]

Also. If players are invested in the world, it makes more sense if players are on a "save the world" quest xD If that's not what they're doing then I try not to worry about it. But if it's a "save the world because" then it's strange and makes no sense...so we have a "save the world because we care about it" situation when players are invested in the world

[@notoriouswhitemoth]

You get the players invested in the world through things they're already invested in. Once you have someone's attention, you can direct it anywhere. For example, if you have a wizard PC, they're probably going to want opportunities to research magic, to seek out scrolls and spellbooks. While they're at a library seeking out arcane secrets, they'll inevitably come across the occasional bread-crumb of lore. Ultimately the solution here is simple: communicate with your players. Ask them what they want, then show them how taking an interest in your campaign world will give it to them.

[@saikoujikan]

My players are very invested in the world I've crafted, and that is by design. The end point of the game is going to bring them to a situation where they will need to decide between defeating the great evil or preserving the world, and if they don't care about the world then that is not a difficult decision to make. Here's how I invested them in my world. 1. Tie their character's backstory to the conflicts of the world. If they have a tragic backstory where their village was destroyed, then that destruction was either caused of profitered by one of the world's powers. If they are a member of a militia, then they would know about particular conflicts and may have even contributed to them. If they are very religious, then they would be aware of the temples and their religious affiliations within the area, which itself can be a source of conflict. As a sub point, tying their backgrounds to the world is also a good idea. Acolytes will know clergy members, and possibly a few higher ups on first name basis. Urchins would know a great deal about street life, and might have gotten involved in smuggling rings or other underworld dealings. These are the kinds of things you can discuss with your player as they create the character, and by allowing their character creation process to shape the world and its lore, you give them a level of influence on the world, and as a result, a little investment in it. 2. Not all knowledge checks are equal. Whenever something knowledge related comes up (Arcana, History, Nature, Religion), the information provided will be different depending on who is rolling. If the party come across an abandoned temple to an old goddess, the Cleric rolling religion may know of this deity as dictated by the dogma's of their church, perhaps they were a character that was known to speak with demons but has since redeemed themselves. But the Druid's religion roll instead tells them that this goddess is one of the agents of the allmother who is responsible for giving people dreams while they sleep at night. 3. Make every rare magic item tie into legends of the world. When they find a fire sword, there should be evidence of it having been forged by giants at the core of the mountains. If they find a cloak of invisibility, it should be known as having once been owned by agents of the allmother, who granted it to those in need to safety from the wielders of flame. All of this could come from knowledge checks, from inscriptions on the side of the robe, or from remarks by NPCs who happen to be in the know. And it all makes great potential for adventure hooks. 4. Make every dungeon hold traces of information that relates to lore already received. It should all build into this sense of discovery and wonder that makes it all fit and feel a part of a long rich history that ties directly to them as a character, their quests, and the items that they receive. Do not tell them more than they are willing to search for, and make whatever information they do receive feel incomplete without other pieces. 5. Contradictions. This is probably the most counterintuitive yet in my mind the most essential, and fun, aspect. Give them details that contradict each other. If there is an assumed norm then throwing something in there that shows alternative viewpoints, alternative interpretations of history, or even ideas that one historic event was in fact two conflated events, it creates questions in the minds of the players, questions that make them look at what they are doing and wonder whether or not they truly understand what it is they are contributing to, and whether or not they are making the right decisions. These questions grow and make them more and more curious about what is actually going on, what the truth behind the world is, and as a biproduct, invested in the world itself. The lore of the world thereby becomes a puzzle, one that can only be solved by looking out for these kinds of things. It's also a really good way to make the players value intelligence as a stat since all information provided is shaped by each player's biases, and multiple people succeeding the role provides ever more clues to solve these puzzles. 6. Have answers. Always know exactly what the truth actually is, how it was convoluted, who stands to gain from obscuring the truth, who might simply be wrong, and whether or not certain truth are actually as mutually exclusive as they first appear. Never reveal any of this too early, especially if there are layers and layers of deceit to unravel first. Reward the players who look out for these details with glimpses of the greater truth, or at least by removing a few layers. But bare in mind they still need to deal with NPCs who have not go these insights. And indeed the interplay between these unenlightened or lying groups can be an interesting conflict in and of itself. The best part is, if you have a solid foundation of the world and its factions and how they understand the history and mythology, it becomes very easy to improvise bits and pieces of lore as they come up in game, leading to a cool feeling of worldbuilding on the fly which is as much influenced by your players as it is yourself.

[@RoberiusRex]

I create a rich game world for my players. But all I really care about is that they are having fun PLAYING the game. I pull in world lore/details when it's relevant. Some of them might care, some don't. But I can always explain how things build and make sense in the world. But all I really care about is that my friends are having fun when they show up to roll dice and roleplay.

[@an8strengthkobold360]

This is part of why I don't like using save the world story's, I think save your world stories tend to work alot better. If you say the world is in danger, the scale is so large it's hard to think of. Save this city, town or area is alot smaller so it's easier for the player to think "all these people and things I care about are a part of X". I ran a huge combat recently in which a city was at stake and listening to my players it's pretty clear they weren't conserned for the city or the implacations of its destruction, they were specifically invested in saving specific npc's, the local temple, their house, ect.

[@Wolfphototech]

*I love how people wanting to counter and push the point of having a massive amount of world lore .* *Luke is absolutely right .* *DM's/GM's love building the world & lore .* *An player's only care about their characters ( multiple points ) & how the world ties into that .* *DM's/GM's really need to accept this .* *It's fine to build a lot stuff .* *But accept that the vast majority of player's will gloss over or ignore the bulk of it .* *Yet when a player(s) do grab onto a chunk world lore .* *Be happy with that & have pride in crafting it .*

[@saintsinna]

Now I see why Luke always says character deaths are needed for stakes in the game. If you can't get players invested in the world then yeah their character's life is the only thing at stake in the game. Getting players invested in the world is easy imo, as long as you know how to make a world interesting. Just tie the adventures to the world history itself. This way it builds actual stakes beyond just a player's individual character. If players can come to love a set of NPCs, a village, city, or nation, then the thought of destruction of those far outweighs a single character's life. For instance if a villain is holding a city hostage and will destroy it unless a character hands over a powerful artifact weapon, an uninvested player could care less about said city, but for an invested player its a real dilemma. Any campaign I make always starts with trying to make the world as interesting as possible and involving the players in the creation if I can specifically so they will be invested. As a player any game without an interesting world I can get hooked into just feels lackluster and boring, even if the adventures themselves are pretty fun. When you ask yourself why is my character risking their life doing this and the only answer is "so I can play the game", really takes you out of the character's frame of mind, and then you get things like murderhobos...

[@CommanderRedVega]

Bottom line, if you want players that care about your world. Consider inviting only DMs to your games and give them a chance to be a player. Even if they aren't all too invested, I'm sure they'll appreciate the chance to be a player.

[@dovahchicken935]

I think the world matters a decent amount. when I'm a player, I try to make sure my character is attached to the world and seems like a realistic character to the world. As a DM I drop alot of hints using the environment and setting the scene. I want my players to be invested in their characters, then invested in the story, invested in the world. I think being invested In all three makes them invested in the game. I don't force anything on my players, I just know for me, being immersed makes the game way more fun; stakes matter, I play as if I only have one character, I make my character show their thoughts and opinions on their main mission or objective in the story. I basically just want it to feel alive instead of players being out of the game.

[@dovahchicken935]

My world itself is fine because I use it in every midevil fantasy campaign

[@dovahchicken935]

I get my fun off of players being immersed in what I created, its the most satisfying thing to see players actually care about something.

[@zendikarisparkmage2938]

Something. Yadda yadda. Luke Hart doesn't suck.

[@danielandelin2046]

Any advice for when a player is more interested in the world than the DM? I have a player who has read a ton of books and really loves the Forgotten Realms, whereas I have read none. He often asks questions or makes assumptions that I am simply not prepared to adjudicate. How can I help him have fun while still being true to my homebrew version of the FR?

[@Calebgoblin]

Allow me to recommend a live stream VOD by Matthew Colville called "Lore vs Writing"

[@colinwhitlock5148]

Didnt you make a video about murder hobos though, and one of the ways to get them to stop is to get them invested in the world

[@strawberrylotlizard]

Through a interrupted experimental ritual, I gave my players a god in the form of a duck that shoots lazerbeams when they stick a finger up it's butt (their choice not mine, I just knew that's what they would do) and they can't wait to findout so I Know they're interested in my world lol

[@ironlord7991]

At my table my players are split on this

[@Darkstar48507]

"cant control weather or not people have fun" well i guess the beatings will continue until morale improves

[@someonecomenting1300]

That how you become a B grade dm. Good for 4 session of game then people leave. World is very important for a campaign. But useless to a one shot.

[@matthiasmortier3627]

In short. The world serves the adventure, not the other way around. Also the adventure serves for fun times for the players and dm.

[@liamcage7208]

The campaign world is window dressing. It can add atmosphere for the players and inspiration to the DM for adventures. It shouldn't require too much investment from the players. Does CSI (Vegas) matter from CSI Miami or CSI New York? What matters are the characters and the cases they solve. The setting is just for atmosphere. I play Pathfinder 2e in the Symbaroum setting. Symbaroum is a grim dark setting and the whole thing takes place in a single country in the world and the massive forest to its north. There are no details about the rest of the world in the setting. DM`s have to stop introducing an Atlas of their world expecting the players to care. One young woman in my game gives great detail on what her character is wearing, everyone smiles and nods...need I say more.

[@johnathanrhoades7751]

You just gotta find people who are invested in the exploration part of the game, and then you have the best of both worlds 😄

[@theDMLair]

Yeah those people do exist for sure. What are the chances that you can fine for five of them to play with you? I feel like the people the players that are interested in character development and going on adventures are more common than those who enjoy Explore Learning the world a game master has created.

[@johnathanrhoades7751]

@@theDMLair Yeah, and generally even if they are interested in exploration, often that is not their ONly interest.

[@Fo0tie]

One thing I've learned the past years: Let your players build the world! Let them design towns, factions, NPCs, friends and foes. They will get more invested and have personal interest in the world.

[@eros5420]

Agency is the key to player gratification. Players care about their characters and adventure because subconsciously they know thats the only thing they can affect. In an open world setting if you want your players to be interested in the world lay out various opportunities for adventure and show that their actions change the world. Statues or wanted posted put up in their likeness, maybe the bard might find he has made some happy accidents, Gods of Clerics and Paladins speaking to them through signs or messangers. Druids speaking through nature. Warlock patrons demanding more frequent uploads. Whatever it is this emerses the player and makes them part of the world, which will make them care. But be read for them to change the world in ways you dont like. You OC DMNPC Royal might have their throat slit. The sacred church of holiness may burn down. Be ready the accept this as ex machinas strip agency and make a player feel powerless and lose interestest.

[@InkognitaTheNameless]

Am I the only one who got distracted from the video because of the rolling cat?

[@garrickstangle5996]

Why do you always pronounce lair as if it was layer?

[@annahamilton2664]

The most invested I've ever been in a DM's world was when they ran several interconnected adventures in the same world and (CRUCIALLY) the things our previous characters did affected what happens to our current characters.

[@Gevaudan1471]

Yea it's easy to fall into the DM trap of "every game needs to be a sandbox".

[@CosplayZine]

In a world where players dont know they're in the world...

[@singledad1313]

So the lore of the world doesn't really matter? Campaign settings are meaningless in the grand scheme of gaming? Then why does WoTC bother building out the Forgotten Realms and all it's lore and history? Then why do players get upset when that lore is retconned? Some people like playing Dark Suns, or Planescape, or Spacejammer, or Eberron. Not exactly an endorsement that the campaign world is a minor consideration. What I've always found boring and uninteresting are generic adventures dropped into a nondescript, bland, nonexistent, and undeveloped game "world". The lack of continuity and persistent game world features makes the game a grinding drudge (to me). Also, you keep saying not to create adventures like your writing a book and the PC's are just acting out your story. That you steal their "agency" doing this. And in this video you say to take the advice of someone who writes books where the characters act out his story. Don't write adventures like they are books, but do write them like this guy writes books? In a book the story is about the characters. An adventure is about how the characters interact with the world. You have to develop the world for the characters to live if it is an ongoing campaign. If the gaming sessions are nothing but one shots with the same characters in a nonexistent campaign world, then that is a different story. Normally I agree with everything you say, but this time I don't. Even if the player's don't realize they are invested in the campaign world, or they say it doesn't matter, in the back of their minds it does. They might not study the lore, become fluent in it, or actively have their CHARACTERS build upon it or seek it out, but the PLAYERS know it's there. Do you need to build a super in-depth, complex, and millennia old history? Of course not. You don't need to cook a seven course meal to feed dinner guests. A few grilled burgers, some pizza, or BBQ will probably satisfy them. But just give them a loaf of bread and pitcher of water? They probably will not come back again for dinner. I feel part of the issue in regards to the OP's question is that he (or she) does not realize the players are invested in their homebrew world. Just because the players don't remember detailed information of the world, or actively explore the lore, or talk about how awesome the game world is, doesn't mean they do not know it's there and appreciate it. I think his question points more towards himself and less towards his players and their reactions to his world. To me it sounds like a lack of confidence or self-esteem issue. The GM is unsure of himself. The OP needs to remember the players keep coming back to his gaming sessions. That alone shows they are invested in the GM's efforts, his created world. The question of whether the players are invested in the GAME or the homebrew WORLD is more nuanced then you seem to give credit to. If the players were merely invested in the GAME, they would find a GM that runs the game how they like. This GM is not giving himself enough credit and recognizing the players are invested in his game world.

[@s.beccari4678]

Reading backstory about a fictional worlds fictional history does not a game make....

[@steeplewiththesnakes]

If you want your players invested in the world, run forgotten realms or a world they're already invested in