Why redesigning the MINI Cooper S is the hardest job in the world!

[@Techjunkiero]

I was ready to make a deposit for this new F66 gen. I don't hate the rear styling in person quite as much as I thought. That said, prefer the previous. While I liked the interior, the fabrics put me off immediately, it felt cheap and easily can collect dust and greasy fingerprints. This and the lack of visible exhaust tips didn’t convince me to get one. I went and got a S 2021 instead. No regrets.

[@MugatuJag]

Until I leased a mini Cooper in 2020 I did not realize how expensive they were… mine was fully loaded mini Cooper S 41K. Extremely fun, I got a great lease rate for a one year lease as I was waiting for a new car to be delivered. Never had any problems, extremely high-quality. Road noise was horrible ( frameless windows, hatchback…, run flat tires did not help) If you buy a Mini, you know what you’re getting. I think they did a great job on this one spec it with British racing green and a brown interior and they are badass🎉

[@largote]

I'd definitely like to see more small cars with premium interiors and finishes, however the US market somewhat conflates "premium" with big.

[@Pamlicojdjdj1487]

I have owned MINIs for 22 years and I can tell you that despite BMW’s claims of MINI being a premium brand their interior materials and durability plus fit says otherwise.

[@damilolaakanni]

They're trying to make Minis look like their Chinese knockoffs from 15-20 years ago...I don't think that's a good idea. BTW, Toyota discontinued the manual transmission in base Corollas in 2023.

[@RespectfullyHumble]

Yes and their quality is just as bad as their Chinese competition. This is just an overhyped overrated overpriced POS, this is too much waxing poetry over an ugly POS. 🤮

[@MDchaz]

Looks fun. That’s getting harder to find these days. Great review. 👍

[@unvjustintime1]

I like the white roof with blue top like Toyota has done as well but is this going to age poorly like Mercedes and Matte paint?

[@UptheFarawayTree]

I love it, stylish and safe.

[@Molloy1951]

We can never underestimate BMW’s capacity to ruin classical and tasteful car designs.

[@eugenetadie9347]

Great review, as usual. Any info on when (if?) the convertible version is coming?

[@dean68w19]

We leased a 2024 2-door S for our daughter, and it was much more fun than I was expected. That being said, I can't see us buying another one, it's kind of a one and done type of car. At least it's not another grey SUV like every other vehicle on the road.

[@MugatuJag]

@@dean68w19 I completely concur, I had a short-term lease on a 2020 S 2 door. It was an extremely fun year, HK sound system was fantastic, pano roof and cabin felt quite large, actually relative to what they appear. However I would not get a two door MC again. Ducking to see the stoplights left and right, and then just feeling claustrophobic because of everyone and their mom having an SUV looking down at you is not amazing. The new countryman is extremely nice. Great size, in my opinion looks fantastic on the outside and inside. Yes they are expensive but thousands cheaper than a comparably equipped X1. If I could get a new countryman for let’s say $100 cheaper a month than a new X1 I would definitely have a hard time.

[@dean68w19]

@@MugatuJag I forgot all about having to duck down to see stoplights.

[@Pamlicojdjdj1487]

@@dean68w19I did that for 22 years. People forget that when BMW launched MINI here in the US back in 2002, that was at the height of the full size SUV craze (Hummer H2, Ford Expeditions, Cadillac Escalades) and drove around those monsters ALL the time without giving it a second thought😂 yes I remember ducking my head to see traffic lights but that was second nature and part of the fun plus having a very spacious cabin in such a small car (Loved not having a windshield raking angle on top of my forehead as in many other “Normal” cars). In fact if you look back at MINI’s extremely clever ads of the time, you’ll see that they constantly made fun and mockery of large SUvs and their owners😂 They even had a 2002 R50 Cooper hatchback being driven around some major cities on the top of the roof of a Ford Expedition 😂 Those were the times when having a MINI was a STRONG statement akin of what owning a Toyota Prius or an EV (Tesla) would become years later. Today MINI is not a shadow of its former self, all that fun clever advertising went away and in 2011 finally succumbed to the SUV crossover craze with the intro of their best selling Countryman crossover and their forgotten but quirky PACEMAN 2 door SUV.

[@greggoryjohnson156]

I love the mini and great review to be sure! But no stick option....wow that totally sucks.

[@fantomtuba]

MotoMan would say the collor would look wunderbar if it was a 911.

[@user-cc7vx7sw4z]

I drive a Mini Paceman S with a manual. I am considering replacing it, but if they don’t offer a manual, it won’t be a new Mini.

[@allen7218]

I ordered/got the 2024 mini S, 6 speed manual before they changed.

[@pcthayer]

With Mini getting rid of the hood scoop on the S model, is there any external feature indicating if the car is a 3 cyl or 4 cyl model?

[@tcaudiobooks737]

The red s on the front and rear... that's it.

[@pcthayer]

@@tcaudiobooks737 Should be interesting if that is the same on the JCW model too.

[@garyclark6747]

It’s a tie between the light (amber and white) reflections on plane surfaces and the 1960’s videography similarity from the in cabin camera. It must be a combination of an upgraded camera (possible lighting setup), light interior and the suspension (bobbling) that let the outside view seem like it was AI generated on a screen outside the window in the hanger. The vehicle could eventually suffer from the fear of being drawn and quartered. Great job as usual. 💯

[@javim2589]

I give you my reinterpretation for this mini...... This car with 800kg, no back seats, rollcage, motor anything over 170hp, manual with short ratios, lowered, race suspension and..... yeah, that´s pretty much it. Never gonna happen but somebody gotta say it. Also, can´t wait to see the R5 on the streets.

[@MotoManTV]

From your mouth to God's ears . . .

[@zigforjustice]

@@javim2589 the GP version may get some of what you are requesting as they lighten it a bit (not 800kg though) and delete the backseat. I agree, it'd be a fabulous car if they did it.

[@aaron___6014]

What is your current daily? A classic?

[@carhabitgarage4356]

I have owned a R56 and now an F56 JCW . Each generation gains more weight , becomes a better overall car but loses the “fun” go kart feel . I keep looking at Restomod Gildred Super coopers as a solution to finding the “ Go Kart”

[@Eman7335]

I don’t like those tailights at all

[@bassandtrebleclef]

Near base MINI is near 40k. Just not enough here to justify cost. Yes it's cool. Just not enough.

[@NomenClature-o8s]

Ouch

[@Pamlicojdjdj1487]

Ridiculous prices. I bought a fully loaded VW MK8 GTI SE DSG for $39K and change and it’s far better driving car and more powerful than this. I was a former MINI owner and enthusiast of the brand for 22 years and it is sad for me to admit that MINI has ran its course and has become a money losing torn on the side of the BMW Group brands (MINI, BMW and Rolls Royce Motorcars).

[@control2791]

I was watching Top Gear Greatest Roadtrip Ever 2 Last night... they had the previous gen mini in that film. And almost 10 years later it seems mini still hasn't learned it's lessons. This should have been smaller than the previous generation. Mazda learned that lesson when building the ND Miata in which they built a smaller vehicle than it's predecessor, mini should follow suit

[@Pamlicojdjdj1487]

That Miata is just too small. Safety conscious buyers would shy away from a MINI smaller than the 2001-2006 R50/R53 first gen hatchbacks.

[@matemayer4850]

😂 that light effect is not lit up underneath the cloth material on the dash. It’s projected over that material from the center console

[@IceDree]

Speaking of designers at the BMW group, have you heard about the recent shake-up? Volvo's former head of design at Polestar will now lead BMW's designs for the 5er & up, MINI®'s current head will lead BMW's designs for the 3ee & below. BMW's Designworks head will lead MINI©, Rolls-Royce's head of coachbuilding division will lead Alpina and the design head of BMW "i" will move to Rolls-Royce. Adrian Van Hooydonk remains the boss. Anyway, it'll be Interesting times ahead. Excellent workl like always, M.

[@MotoManTV]

Can't say that I have . . . but sounds complicated for the sake of being complicated . . . as per usual with German OEMs as of late:)

[@evankatz2893]

George time for a cigar chat with Nathan , now that you reside in the same state.All The Best, Evan

[@MotoManTV]

Just hung out with him @ Manhattan Beach Cars & Coffee this morning . . . Cigars tomorrow night.

[@plneky1171]

Great review. BMW has a problem with the retro-Mini because it is a styling dead end. VW had the same problem and gave up on the Beetle for now, maybe it will come back as an EV. The latest Mini interior has gone from a quirky dashboard/instrument panel to a bland Ikea style. The exterior looks like they just melted the lines and rounded everything. Nothing wrong with the BMW chassis and power train. As a brand, Mini serves as an entry level BMW product and the customer pays for it. I owned the previous generation F56 Mini Cooper S and thoroughly enjoyed it. Not sure there is a business future for the brand, which would be a pity. We need small sized, fun to drive, quality built cars.

[@Pamlicojdjdj1487]

MINI has not much future and pretty sure there have been many meetings at BMW’s boardroom headquarters in Munich to decide its future. It pains me to say this as a former MINI owner and enthusiast of 22 years (And 5 MINIs bought in cash and owned) that this brand and product have completely ran its course. MINI today is just a bad caricature with crossovers and vehicles that have nothing MINI in their look and feel. Expensive to buy, own and QC, in despite of Consumer Reports claims to the contrary, still suspects. All my 5 MINIs started to fall apart and become money pits after 50K miles in despite of quasi-obsessive maintenance and servicing.

[@Ceh000]

Ohhh the back is FUGLY!

[@dg7438]

They left the enthusiast market. They need to rescructure their Hp to $ ratio. It looks less aggressive also, with some not good decontenting.

[@trustprojects]

Why would anyone buy such a stylised car when the back end doesn’t look like a mini anymore? Mini drivers don’t want to appear grown up- if they did, they wouldn’t buy a mini no matter how ‘grown up’ the tail lights are. And don’t animated union flag tail lights just scream ‘grown up’? 🤦🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️ It looks like a Micra from the back. What it had going for it was mini dna in its appearance and that’s gone. I hope it’s a sales bomb. This is a classic case of changing the key ingredient in a perfect meat pie recipe and then hoping the pie turns out ok with dog food.

[@tcaudiobooks737]

Wish BMW took the same approach with their core models, rather than sacrificing the beautiful design cues and tasteful lines every other generation on the altar of "change" and "innovation".

[@Pamlicojdjdj1487]

In addition to 5 MINIs owned over a span of 22 years also owned a couple of BMWs: 2011 E90 328i and 2017 BMW G30 530i. The last good looking and worth owning Bimmers. Everything else they have today with the exception of the G20 3-Series is an absolute design mess. Can’t forgive BMW how they decimated and ruined their benchmark 5-Series for this G60 abomination their are selling today.

[@Pamlicojdjdj1487]

Because their main world market is China and every car they make and sell there now is catered for Chinese tastes😂

[@Pamlicojdjdj1487]

Serious question, who is the target customer for MINI here in 2024? Here you hardly see them much anymore and I live in a city with 2 BMW/MINI dealerships and these things were EVERYWHERE years ago. Their presence has dried up considerably out in the roads.

[@manoloprpr]

Durability is important, my Cooper S has been sitting outside for 4 months without fix/use and the paint looks good. Nice decoration I must say. Hope this one is as good LOL.

[@georgebushisntcool]

They should take lessons from Porsche.. Redesigning the 911 is something done right..

[@drumflip1253]

Owned several minis. Not a fan of the very basic front end, or the minimalistic interior. Loved minis of old with toggle switches and aircraft like looks. When enthusiast cars like the Elantra N, GTI, GR86, Miata exist all for less money the mini is a very tough sell.

[@Pamlicojdjdj1487]

100% also owned 5 MINIs over 22 years. In 2023 I needed to replace my 2013 R55 Clubman S money pit (Mind you it only had 60K miles😂) and finally did the unthinkable: ordered a brand new 2023 MK8 VW GTI SE DSG while it was still on the boat crossing the Atlantic from Germany (Wolfsburg) and 2 weeks later took delivery and drove it home to never look back. The current GTI is amazing car and in some ways reminds me of the older 1 and 2 gen MINIs that I owned with its sharp and fun Driving dynamics😂. MINI is a sad affair in 2024. Mark my words, the BMW Group will dump and sell MINI to the Chinese (I bet on Geely) before the end of the decade.

[@stevemartegani]

With the curb weight of the MINI going over 3000lbs and the discontinuing of the Forte GT, there are now only THREE new affordable Enthusiast cars UNDER 3000lbs in the US (Miata, the Twins [BRZ/GR86], and the Civic Si just barely)...

[@Pamlicojdjdj1487]

You are forgetting the VW MK8 GTI at 3,113 pounds curb weight.

[@stevemartegani]

@@Pamlicojdjdj1487 3113lbs is over 3000lbs

[@Pamlicojdjdj1487]

@@stevemartegani I get that close but no cigar but still very close

[@Shotter]

9:18 That's Tiffany blue! Lol that you call their color Crest blah. Maybe they need to send you some stuff so you have better awareness of the brand

[@Pamlicojdjdj1487]

This brand is a mess, misguided and lost here in 2024. A far cry from the laser sharp highly focused and exciting brand MINI was when first launched here in the US back in 2002. You could hardly see and much less test drive a MINI. Waiting lists for R53 Cooper S going into months at a time. I remember that time when MINI was the most desirable car to own and be seen on the road. What a pity, MINI is irrelevant 22 years later and has completely run its course. Don’t be surprised if the BMW Group dumps it and sells it to the Chinese before the end of the decade.😂

[@peterpoppe4855]

I really do not like this new design. On the outside the back of the car lost its Mini personality (very ugly rear lights). The interior is too clean, too minimalistic. Where are all the fun buttons ? We have a 2022 Mini and I will certainly not change it for this one. Sorry Mini 😞

[@Pamlicojdjdj1487]

Come over to the “Dark side” MK8/8.5 VW GTI or Golf R is where is at in this segment. I owned 5 MINIs prior over a span of 22 years and finally made the switch to Volkswagen to never look back.

[@GrahamEdwards-kq4fx]

How sad

[@stevelouie5928]

No one test drove the base model yet. It has a 4 cylinder with 160hp. Probably has less torque steer and in the city, you probably can barely notice the difference. It looks basically the same now. In the past the S had different sport seats and a fake hood scoop and center exit exhaust. Are you just paying an extra 3k for just the S badge now?

[@doriangray2347]

I spent $50k a year ago for a JCW hardtop. Moon roof delete. Manual gearbox. Lounge leather. Mine is 81 lbs less than a regular JCW (although the leather probably adds 10 lbs or so). It is blue with a red top. I bought it because these look like ASS. And the interior is vile and cheap. I wish you could drive my car. If you are near NYC, i would love for you to.

[@Pamlicojdjdj1487]

I have been inside your car but with a moonroof. My advise, hold on to it and enjoy because this brand has gone to shit and likely will be sold off to the Chinese before the end of the decade. The BMW Group has ran out of ideas to keep it relevant and it is just a money losing operation (It has been for several years).

[@PMW-qo9bp]

My long love affair with the mini is over. Those tail lights a big no no for me.

[@NomenClature-o8s]

The GigantoGuage is a bit silly….if you’re over 40. Otherwise I love the car.

[@shankarbalan3813]

i prefer my 12 year old R56 Cooper S any day.

[@kennedyracing7527]

How stupid a mini without a manual transmission

[@Pamlicojdjdj1487]

Are they still using roof antennas?😂

[@JimmyShields-z2h]

It needs go Little Britain Fat Fighters with Marjorie, get rid of big ugly round screen, go kart mode only with performance brakes n racing gearbox.

[@chriss8971]

Who at BMW thought putting a dinner plate on the dashboard was a good idea? Man that thing is ugly.

[@Pamlicojdjdj1487]

Agreed too overwhelming. But as I prior 1st and 2nd gen MINI owner always enjoyed the classic big speedo smack in the middle of the dash.

[@christopherblake88]

That road looks so dangerous.

[@CoolTatts]

Agreed! I love my 2012 Mini Cooper S in the deep Blue and white roof & caps. Why can’t we have these combinations again. These new pastels and glowing colours don’t appeal to us traditionalists. Maybe keep the original colour combinations as an option during the model transition and introduce these appliance colours later.

[@BennnWJK]

The rear looks horrendous and is heavy as hell. It’s the same weight as a Mk7 GTI….

[@Pamlicojdjdj1487]

MINI is a small car that suffers from expensive BMW service and parts but is not a luxury car

[@MugatuJag]

It’s true but most people lease them, and they come with prepaid maintenance for three years 36,000 miles, and then a four year 50,000 mile warranty so you don’t really have to worry about anything besides brakes and tires. And from experience, you just have to worry about one set of tires if you’re gonna lease it…

[@Pamlicojdjdj1487]

@@MugatuJag my mistake was owning them long term (7-10 years) the first and second gen cars starting to fall apart at the 50K mile mark (end of warranty)

[@MugatuJag]

@@Pamlicojdjdj1487 oh gosh, yeah the first and second gen, while very endearing, especially the first GEN with the supercharger whine were horribly unreliable. I would say that of the first GEN I would definitely buy a cheaper well-maintained 2005 or 2006 MCS 6 speed, knowing what I was getting into and of course, doing a lot of my own work. My mechanic who worked on my Jaguar said you know if you can do your own work especially preventative maintenance. They are not that bad…. Of course don’t get the CVT. CVT is a guaranteed fail. That being said, I would love to get a Paceman one of these days, they are just super unique in school

[@MugatuJag]

@@Pamlicojdjdj1487 part of the problem with the minis and BMWs of that era was the prepaid maintenance. BMW was extremely cheap, 15 to 16,000 mile oil change intervals….F that. That’s a recipe for mechanical disaster as they age. Even though my B48, with the Aisin tranny is known to be quite reliable. I insisted that they change the oil at 7500 for the first oil change to spare any future owners whatever I could lol

[@NomenClature-o8s]

@@Pamlicojdjdj1487Then do your own maintenance.

[@witsendcottage595]

HUD is crap..... I have the same HUD on my Mazda CX 3.....worthless. killing the Clubman was a huge mistake, especially for us large dog owners! You blew it Mini!

[@Pamlicojdjdj1487]

Cloth in doors and dashboard. That is not going to wear well..

[@MrSchn3ll]

The original Mini was perfectly imperfect - now they are designing these cars to be everything to everyone and it doesn't work, they are no longer Mini and just a commodity car that has grown in size to reflect nothing of what the brand stood for. It's designed by committee and a half hearted attempt to continue this brand. They are in real trouble and probably won't make it another 5 years.

[@1225KPH]

I need LESS sidewall to go fast on F! track-smooth public roads!

[@Pamlicojdjdj1487]

Sadly MINI has become irrelevant since many years ago. I say that as an early adopter of the brand back in 2002 and owned 5 total over the years (1 R50, 2 R53 and 2 R55). Last year went with a VW MK8 GTI SE DSG to never look back. And MINI having killed the Clubman was a huge mistake.

[@zigforjustice]

The r55 was really a sweet spot

[@Pamlicojdjdj1487]

@@zigforjustice I had 2, 2008 Clubman Cooper S with the N14 engine and 2013 LCI Cooper S Clubman with the revised N18 engine.

[@zigforjustice]

@@Pamlicojdjdj1487 that's awesome. I gave a 13 and it is great.

[@patrickm.3977]

The new Mini feels and looks really cheap. You can tell that there was serious cost cutting going on. It’s also a shame that it’s not available as a manual transmission anymore. From enthusiast car to cheap disco ball

[@kennedyracing7527]

Why do expensive for a 200 hp car if it was making 300-400 as a performance car yes but this no 🤷‍♂️

[@RespectfullyHumble]

Sorry but this redesigned mini is just freaking ugly on the outside, and on the inside. 🤮 The first BMW mini of the early 2000 had a really pleasant design this new one is just 💩 🤢 🤮!

[@DudeSnazzy]

This looks like a an EV, very sterile. Definitely the worst looking generation yet.

[@Tequila_atTheJazzbar]

Changing the oil filter on the old ones was not fun from what my mechanic tells me.

[@zigforjustice]

Indeed for the second generation.

[@Pamlicojdjdj1487]

I had first and second gen MINIs so I know!😂 The first gen engine was a Chrysler TRITEC powertrain built in Brazil but was very ROBUST. It was the same 4 cyl engine found in PT Cruisers and Neon SRTs of the era. That engine could take a lot of power without doing any mods. I had a reduction pulley in my supercharged 2005 R53s. The sounds under acceleration were crazy😂. For the second generation BMW still didn’t have a suitable engine of their own and went to PSA (Peugeot-Citroen) for their infamous “Prince” 1.6L Turbocharged engine which on paper and when it work was great but reliability wise it was GARBAGE. French engine after all. I blame the Prince for the irreversible damage it did to BMW/MINI reputation. This also prompt abandoning the joint engine venture (The engines were built at Hams-Hall plant near the main MINI assembly plant in Oxford, UK and transported there). The third gen MINIs improved significantly because they all went to use BMW’s corporate B38 and B48 family of modular and closed deck architecture engines used in several BMW and MINI products.

[@GrahamEdwards-kq4fx]

Oh my word .Are BMW having a laugh .It is disgusting .Horrible re design .They bought a brand that they could develop.Improve .The countryman was an ugly site on UK roads . This one is worse

[@lisaj7011]

Long live the R53! They are just getting bigger and uglier!