Why Rian Johnson Didn't Understand Finn

[@alienobserver21]

100% truth spoken by you as usually. The idea that Finn had to learn about how evil war is and to fight for a cause is the most ABSURD take on his character after TFA, where he literally excaped a life of brainwashing because he REFUSED to kill innocent people, because he kept saving innocent people throughout the film and then risked his life and was ready to die for Rey - all of this points towards a character who DEEPLY cares for others, despite of how he was raised. His cause is to protect the innocent and his friends. that is ADMIRABLE and not cowardly. Fighting for a specfic side has to be a conscious decision. I am so pissed they cut the scene in TLJ where he actually talks to Poe about why he isn't directly convinced of the Resistance. But nah, they had to run with the "he's selfish, a coward who only cares about himself and Rey" nonsense... not to mention I don't see how Finn could possibly be a coward if he runs right into the lair of the beast in TFA to save Rey, no matter how. Making it look like saving Rey was a bad thing was one way to ignore their dynamic and what they mean to each other... and to achieve that, they had to shit on Finn. UGH UGH UGH

[@decades1912]

Precisely, I just wanted a competent director to handle this trilogy. Thank you for your words of wisdom l

[@monicaaboites5053]

TLJ didn't understand Finn and Rian Johnsson ignored everything which maked Finn's character so important and interesting. And now that stupid article says that TLJ did justice to Finn? Who wrote that article? Rian Johnsson?

[@Mr.Silence.]

The fact that people still to this day say that tlj was the only film to give finn something to do with their whole chest bold af is my villian origin story.

[@frankmerker630]

Yeah he had leaky tubes attached to him while yelling Rey!! very funny and clever writing 10 out of 10 movie

[@hotfroganimations]

A movie has never made me this annoyed. Just. Why.

[@Thedreamlandfire]

You guys are the ones with villain origin story lmao. Obsessing about a movie you claim to “hate” 4/5 years later 😂. Y’all are STILL talking about this ? You guys may hate the movie but there is no denying that most of you have an unhealthy obsession with it. You’ll be telling your grandkids one day , “Luke was so out of character , Rey was a Mary Sue, Finn was underused, blah blah blah 😑 and they’ll be like “ok, grandpa”. I suggest you guys check out “Urban Acolyte” , I feel like he actually has some intelligent things to say when it comes down to the mythological and spiritual aspects of Star Wars. Maybe you’d understand the franchise you claim to love so much a little more and not get so butt hurt that You didn’t get a mike Zeroh or Star Wars theory fan fic instead .

[@Mailrobot]

The fact that people don't understand Finn's story in TLJ is mine. You have to literally be obtuse and explain things stupidly in order to make coherent the argument that his story doesn't work. It works so textbooky that denying it just shows the level of ignorance of youtubers who flunked Creative Writing.

[@hotfroganimations]

@@Thedreamlandfire we can hate whatever we like mate.

[@Raleyg]

I still find it astonishing that people spent two years making theory after theory about who Rey's parents were, but barely anyone asked the same question about Finn's parents, the family that he was literally torn away from. Obviously, part of it is because TFA constantly referenced Rey's parents, but never Finn's, but honestly, I think it's proof that Finn is better written than Rey. We don't need to know his parentage, his story is compelling enough on its own. And yeah, the literal child soldier who watched innocents die, but refused to take part in it, is the one who needs a lesson about how war is bad. Any more brilliant insight Rian?

[@deanthomas2961]

Finn's Confession to Rey highlights just how apathetic Johnson was towards Finn as a deeper character. Finn literally admitted to having zero memory of his family and still chose to do the right thing at every turn.... Yet Johnson couldn't help but turn him into the punchline of a shitty joke no one asked to hear.

[@agamagohenmapoke5303]

Johnson respected his character by giving him flaws : despite being well-meaning, he still doesn’t understand the cause of which the Resistance is fighting for. His arc in this movie is about understanding what means making a good or a bad choice. Which he wasn’t yet aware. The only reason he was on Starkiller was to save Rey, not the Resistance. He says that to Han « I am only here to save Rey. ». And he wants to flee the ship again to save Rey. It shows his limits he had in The Force Awakens. At the end he only thought about saving the persons he love and not a cause. I understand that people were disturbed because he didn’t continue his adventures with Rey. But this was on The Force Awakens who already split up the characters. It would have been lazy writing to make them reunite with Luke whereas Finn was in the coma with the Resistance and didn’t go with Rey.

[@Necroxion]

@@agamagohenmapoke5303 Rian disrespected Finn by having him be essentially a passenger to Poe and Rose's mission without contributing anything except getting tazered by Rose and explaining to the audience that a tracker is possible (EDIT: the audience, not Rose - as Rose was supplying 50% of the conversation about a tracker being possible, and it just so happens that Finn just got back from telling Leia that a tracker is impossible - the one person who got tracked by the Empire near the climax of ANH, but their trackers worked differently in the OT) Oh, and also choosing the guy who hotwired a jail cell instead of the codebreaker that Maz vouched for Like, there's flaws, and then there's plot contrivances that only work with idiotic characters - Finn just happened to be the character that had to shoulder most of the idiocy when he was the guy who literally went through stormtrooper training Also considering his conflict with Phazma essentially ended in one swing and a one-liner...yeah, at least give the guy a more heroic moment EDIT: also making Finn the one character with the most gags, essentially repeating the black comic relief character trope EDIT: also also having Finn repeat his "uncertainty about joining the Resistance" arc from TFA, which was resolved when he ignited a lightsaber against Kylo, their enemy's public head, who yelled "traitor" at him Now that I think about it, between Finn, Poe, and Luke, it's apparently common for TLJ to either repeat resolved character arcs (most of these) or cram a character arc into a character who obviously did not show the required flaw in the last film (Poe)

[@agamagohenmapoke5303]

@@Necroxion they chose this guy because they ran short of time, this guy saved them, and they didn’t have the time to come back to a town they just destroyed, and where they were obviously not welcome anymore.

[@agamagohenmapoke5303]

@@Necroxion Poe showed impulsiveness in The Force Awakens since the first minute he is on screen : instead of fleeing as far as possible, he shoots mindlessly on Kylo Ren who is known as force sensitive able to stop blaster, and against who Poe didn’t stand a chance. Also, this move was pointless as shooting Kylo Ren wouldn’t stop the war at all, Snoke and the Knights of Ren still exists, Poe is supposed to know that. And this bad choice causes him to be captured and reveal that the map is in the droid. But he doesn’t stop there, his first interaction with Kylo is Poe making fun of Kylo’s helmet, just like he does with Hux in the next movie. How can you say the character has different personalities between the two films when it’s exactly the same character ? Finn’s arc wasn’t resolved, as he only stood against Kylo to revenge Rey, not the Resistance. And after getting his ass kicked by Kylo, it’s pretty obvious that he wouldn’t want to be involved in this fight again, the only time he stood up against the First Order he got his ass kicked, then I don’t think he would continue to fight against the First Order.

[@agamagohenmapoke5303]

@@Necroxion Finn doesn’t contribute ? Doesn’t he kill Phasma ? Doesn’t he help to locate the room where the tractor is ? Doesn’t he convince DJ to give back to Rose his medallion ? Doesn’t he make a speech to give hope to the Resistance before the fight on Crait ? You are very unfair with Rian Johnson.

[@DemiSemme]

The first time I saw TLJ, I loved it, but it had also been 2 years since I'd seen TFA, so I think I'd also forgotten a lot of who Finn was. And when I saw TLJ for the second time, I found it less enjoyable, and that enjoyment has been on a steady decline ever since. Looking back, I don't think RJ understood anyone's character, even the ones he was creating, but Finn was definitely the one to suffer the most in terms of being positioned as the worst kind of strawman audience avatar. It insults him and the viewers.

[@tellemstevedave5559]

Rian only cared about Kylo. He's said it many times. God I wish he never made episode 8......

[@agamagohenmapoke5303]

Who are you to pretend that the writer doesn’t understand his characters ? HE studied cinema and storytelling. HE knew what he was doing. HE had already directed three movies before. Did you ? Then maybe it’s you who didn’t understand the character’s arcs in TLJ.

[@DemiSemme]

@@agamagohenmapoke5303 I studied storytelling too. I literally have a masters degree in theater studies. And I *do* understand Finn's arc in TLJ, it's the same one he had in TFA, only far more insulting because it ignores the fact that he already had his "rebel scum" moment when he ignited the lightsaber to fight Kylo Ren, and it suggests that Finn, someone who literally rejected enslavement as a child soldier less than a week previously within the timeline of the story, needs to be told that war and slavery are bad. TLJ is *not* a good continuation of the story that was set up for Finn in TFA, it is a regression.

[@agamagohenmapoke5303]

La Femme Fictionale from a certain point of view.

[@MiraBoo]

@@DemiSemme I agree. Finn’s character had such amazing potential, but that potential was unfortunately squandered...

[@emperorholocron8278]

The title of this video is the understatement of the millennium 🤭

[@SpaceCityDreams]

I hope in some alternative universe, Finn’s character and story is told properly

[@superomegaprimemk2]

I think many fans want to be in that Universe, this one has begun to suck as bad story tellers take control of the big IPs only to run them into the ground!

[@gregorycarranza-lima5605]

Filoni saved Star Wars by making the parallel universes claim

[@TheRonaldbaxter]

My Ep VII Rey, Finn, Ben would be Jedi Padawan in Luke’s new Jedi academy. Ben goes dark, Rey stays light, Finn torn between them etc. Fighting a new Sith uprising .

[@mrplatink]

I love how passionate you are about all these facets of...any story, really. You go into such depth, and in every vid, I can hear how much this means to you. Thank you for these vids; I'm watching them and realizing with my own story that if there's wasted potential, I fall into the "sequel trap." Like your vids propose, they could have done SO MUCH MORE, and the WASTED POTENTIAL is a red-flag all story creators and collaborators should be most aware of. Never waste the potential of any character or any story.

[@MaxWellenstein]

Really good. Your litany of examples toward the end of the video, particularly where Finn should have stuffed DJ's nonsense about there being no good or evil right back down his throat, are rock-solid. Thanks for another excellent meditation on Finn's character!

[@TheFirstOkiro]

Thank you for another excellent comment!

[@mysticwayfinder3578]

I'll never understand how this film was the one that "did Finn justice" when Finn had all of his development and growth just thrown out so that Rian Johnson could pretend to be a deep storyteller.

[@Hibbs4Prez]

This. That' talking point spread by TLJ lovers is nauseating.

[@virgogaming6488]

Finn didn't shout Rey throughout TLJ and defeating Phasma completed his arc from TFA.

[@JohnnySturdivant]

I love TLJ but that’s a motherfin’ lie! TLJ sidelined the FUH outta Finn and I loved the Finn character

[@damandelorean]

@@virgogaming6488 Since when was killing Phasma one of his goals and a part of his arc ? He was already free from her control. Him outsmarting her for the second time doesn't add anything new. It's just another action scene.

[@virgogaming6488]

@@damandelorean It shows that he's completely in charge of his life and has the high ground over her when he wins. Visually and metaphorically. He is dressed as an imperial officer in the scene to symbolize this.

[@HeartlessSlayer]

Seriously, HOW do people think TLJ will age better over time!? Talking about how deep and meta the film is when making commentary about the future while ignoring the GLARING problem of not only sidelining a co-protagonist because he is black but willingly ignoring everything about Finn being a slave in TFA and for him to be lectured about how slavery is bad? Its not only terrible character assassination on Finn but it is HORRENDOUSLY offensive that they're being racist under the guise of "deconstruction" and "female empowerment." I get people enjoy movies for whatever reason even when they're problematic, I have my own faves that are, but to deny the glaring issues of TLJ and continue to call it a "masterpiece?" This is the sort of issue that Jar Jar would call BS on.

[@Raleyg]

Remember when Rian said he decided to split up Finn and Poe because they were so alike he couldn’t tell them apart and there wouldn’t be any drama? Sure Rian, the former Stormtrooper who was taken away from his family and forced to kill, and the pilot who decided to fight of his own free will, who somehow became friends, have everything in common. No storytelling opportunities there

[@HeartlessSlayer]

@@Raleyg What REALLY hurts it too is that he didn't want the film to be screened by a test audience to get their reaction. Its the equivalent of a student being too proud of their work to have it looked over for corrections and handed it in as a rough draft.

[@RorikH]

It's weird, watching TLJ I was like, "that made some weird choices but had cool moments so it was okay", and then watching TROS I was like "wow, TLJ seems so much better in comparison" and then watching these videos I'm like "TLJ was terrible and also TROS was terrible, and also TFA was much worse than it should have been"

[@agamagohenmapoke5303]

TLJ DIDN’T ignore that Finn was a slave. He reconnects with his former superior, Phasma. His arc is not about understanding that war is bad and that slavery is bad. His arc is about understanding that slavery and cruelty exists in the world and is not specific to the First Order, but that doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t choose side like DJ. Until that he was only with the Resistance by necessity to flee the First Order and to save Rey. He was on Starkiller to save Rey, that’s what he says to Han. In TLJ he learns what the Resistance is fighting for and why it’s a better choice than the First Order. Of course he knows that war is bad, TLJ is aware of that, but he didn’t know that the First Order was not the only one to entertain war and slavery.

[@HeartlessSlayer]

@@agamagohenmapoke5303 So then how would that put any favour towards what happened to John Boyega behind the scenes? That's something, even those who do like Finn's arc in TLJ, tend to ignore.

[@GreySawyer]

Facts! TLJ did nothing but set Finn aside in a meaningless side plot. It did nothing to reflect or give any more understanding on his past, which is crucial for character development.

[@unclefranklin4575]

Also set him up to be a coward again. If it didn't work the first time why would it click this time? And at least the first time his actions did help the resistance. The second time his act of bravery is just a footnote that does nothing.

[@agamagohenmapoke5303]

Uncle Franklin because the first time he stood up against the enemy he got his ass kicked properly by Kylo Ren. Here he manages to stand against Phasma

[@agamagohenmapoke5303]

Not facts. Only your interpretation.

[@agamagohenmapoke5303]

If he really was sidelined, he wouldn’t have had all that screen time. His past was explored as he meets Phasma again and kills her. But the other things of his past was irrelevant as the movie’s theme is about moving on from the past, and that’s what Finn does by killing Phasma.

[@themenagerie5247]

I love how fin the child soldiers was lectured about the horrors of war.

[@MothsAudioandVideos]

Phantom Menace and Force Awakens... what is it with the first movie in the trilogy setting up potentially deep discussion about slavery only for the following movies to either ignore or underdeliver? Great video as usual, friend!

[@jabonyakeh]

I found Rian Johnson’s treatment of Finn very racist. He didn’t bother to develop the character’s relationship with Rey. His portrayal of Finn’s recovery from his wounds struck me as insensitive, cartoonish, and offensive. Johnson seemed unable to make up his mind on what Finn’s character arc was supposed to be about. He allowed Rose to label Finn as “cowardly”, because the latter wanted to leave the Resistance ship and warn Rey about the First Order. Apparently, Johnson thought it was okay for Rose to coerce Finn into remaining with The Resistance for “character development”. This goes completely against how Lucas portrayed Han Solo’s reluctance to join the Rebel Alliance in “A New Hope”. Although Luke tried to convince Han in remaining, Leia pointed out that Han had every right to make his own decision. I guess Johnson thought otherwise when it came to Finn. But when Johnson had Rose lecture Finn about the evils of slavery, when he had been forced into becoming a stormtrooper ever since he was a child , I found her lectures ridiculous. This is not me bashing Rose’s character. This is me bashing Rian Johnson’s writing. Johnson kept creating scenes that gave Rose an opportunity to lecture Finn for the slimmest reasons. It seemed as if he wanted audiences to believe that Rose knew Finn better than he knew himself. This makes me wonder if Johnson viewed non-white people - especially those of African descent - as “childlike”. It certainly felt that way, when I last watched “The Last Jedi”. This was only confirmed when it was acknowledged that most of the scenes the rian deleted were about Finn.

[@Hibbs4Prez]

Key statement : Rian Johnson DID NOT care about Finn's arc. And it shows.

[@agamagohenmapoke5303]

The Gold Man : hold my beer.

[@wannabecartoonist7389]

I read the title as "Why Rian Johnson doesnt understand film" and both fit

[@xolotte]

As someone who loved the Force Awakens (it was my favorite Star Wars film after it came out, now I'm less sure) and whose favorite character is Finn, I dislike TLJ mostly because of how underutilised Finn was and how his character was demoted from deuteragonist to comic relief side character. Honestly, the whole thing would be a lot less frustrating if TLJ fans didn't call everyone who disliked the movie misogynists and racists. Thank you for making these videos!

[@DalekOfChaos666]

Finn was a character in TFA, I have my problem with how he was handled(like being giddy about killing his fellow Stormtroopers, not exploring indoctrination and conditioning from childhood to adulthood, drinking alien water and other comic relief garbage and the "sanitation") but I recognize a character arc when I see one. He went from traumatic child soldier who wanted to run from learning to fight for something more than himself and confronting the literal embodiment of his oppression. Finn in TLJ was a poor man's copy and paste of his character arc from TLJ and RIan Johnson's racist slapstick comedy to abusing Finn was just disgusting. Aside from that, my biggest problem with Finn in the movie was this. Why was it important to free the space horses, but not the literal slave children? Is this symbolic as there was never a Stormtrooper Rebellion in the Sequels?

[@TheHayabusa1604]

Finn being the "pull to the lightside" to Kylo when Finn switched sides, would've been soooo good, bloody racists ruin everything

[@windghost2]

I like how it sets up the conflict within Kylo since both him and Snoke confirmed there was an awakening in the force and this was after Finn left. It’s so sad that the foil nature between Finn and Kylo got kicked to the side for Kylo and Rey following TFA and even that “relationship” wasn’t even good.

[@Therearenowinners101]

Rian Johnson is obviously diabolically overtly super-racist. The 1st outing.. the force literally awakened in a (British raised Nigerian actor portraying) child soldier & the story begins.. But the sequel is all about making the Hapsburg jawed edge-lord, Vader wannabe, & whiny, mentally unstable, deranged psychopath villain a sex symbol.. & love interest. Fr, fr? Disney. Wtf.

[@DaDunge]

6:45 Finn is not the first defector from the stormtroopers, the first defectors we know of was General Crix Madine, who trained and led the elite storm commandos. He's in Return of the Jedi though I don't think they explain who he is there.

[@Z-209]

I remember after watching TFA I was eagerly waiting for TLJ to continue Finn's story. Even with the thousands of videos that there were on Rey I was more interested in Finn. Then TLJ came out, I slept on it, woke up the next morning and thought "So what the hell happened with Finn is he not important anymore?" Underwhelming in his character arc to say the least, and this is back when I was a casual fan before I explored deep into lore or anything. So if it's even obvious for a casual fan to notice something was wrong, then I could only imagine how it was for deeply invested fans

[@agamagohenmapoke5303]

If he wasn’t that important, Rose wouldn’t have saved him. For Rian Johnson Finn was important. He fought and defeated Phasma, and he was a symbol of rebellion against the First Order by rebelling against it. Rose saved him to savez the symbol of hope that he represents as a Stormtrooper.

[@daffygoose3949]

No one in the writers room understood Finn.

[@tkc1129]

When Ep8 was about to come out, I went on a media blackout because so many previews spoil movies nowadays. So I went in only having seen the first teaser. But I also allowed myself to watch a playthrough of Battlefront 2, since I wasn't going to buy it. One of the later missions had you try to prevent the First Order from abducting people from a planet near the Unknown Regions, to be used as stormtroopers. I thought this was great: they were setting up for Finn to go to the UR to stop these abductions, try to flip as many of his bretheren as possible, and while there meet up with Luke and Rey. After all, if Luke had secluded himself away from the rest of the galaxy, it must be for something important; Luke probably was trying to stop the first order in the UR this whole time. During all this, we would get to see Finn try to find his family, confronting other stormtroopers, dealing with the issue of the NR being imperfect, and probably being revealed as a force-sensitive by Luke. He could come back to Leia and tell her that The Resistance and NR allowed the First Order to happen and that they need to do better. But nope. Nothing like that at all.

[@mollymcallister1671]

Just wanted to say, while my connection is holding out. That opening. *slap* "Heeeeeell naw... o/~" That's it, that's all that should need saying right there. (of course much more, much-much more will need to be saying anyway, people are thick like that.)

[@AdZillz]

And that's why Ryan ruined the trilogy, he made Finn the Tritagonist instead of the Co-Protagonist / Deuteragonist.

[@kimberlygaugh4085]

Again, Okiro, another successful Finn/Star Wars video from you. I really enjoyed what you said about how Finn may have problems with the resistance (like you said some higher-ups not focused on the lives of slaves and the common people or just people who are taken from their families and never seen again) including the soldiers themselves and their views on Finn. We honestly were robbed of Finn defending those kids in TLJ (as I originally really enjoyed the potential those kids could've had. Maybe even one of them being a padawan for Finn in the future). It's just so disappointing to think the amount of stories that could've been told & I definitely think Finn could be the poster boy of the resistance similar to Anakin being with the Rebublic/Jedi but they will soon face issues related to their beliefs and Finn possibly wanted to save as many stormtroopers as he can instead of killing or imprisoning them.

[@TheStacanova]

I think you are thinking about this wrong. I think it begins with, Rian Johnson didn’t really even want Finn in his movie. Here’s how I see Rian Johnson writing TLJ and to me, it best explains what we saw. I believe Rian really wanted to tell TWO stories. 1. Twilight- With Bella(Rey) & Edward(Kylo). 2. Trust All Women, emasculate men. 1. His 1st story, JJ had already burdened him with Luke, so he had to get rid of Luke, before he could commit completely to Twilight, so Rian added the story line for Luke of “All your heroes are old, worthless & never that good to begin with, especially if they are SWM”. Then he could move on to Twilight. Also, Snoke has no place in Twilight, so kill him off. 2. Trust All Women(or the emasculation of Poe). The stupid slow chase only exists to serve this plot. He can’t do it with Leia, so she has to go into a coma, and Akbar has to be killed, so we can get to Holdo. You can’t have Holdo emasculating Finn, because Finn is black and Holdo is a white women, that goes against their politics. Poe’s the closest character to a SWM Rian Johnson had to emasculate, but he can’t have Finn around at all. I’ll guarantee, Rian Johnson asked “can we just keep Finn in a coma for the whole movie along with Leia?”, he was told no. So he invented The Rose character for the sole purpose of occupying Finn. Rose & Finn are then given a new narrative, capitalism is bad, mmmkay. Nothing Rian Johnson wrote for Finn took any consideration into who his character was at all, he was there for Rose to explain cartoon morals to. The last act was so Rian Johnson can do his “Not Hoth” battle scene. He added, Meaningless and empty death for Luke. Finn having Rose “Save him” & “explain things to him”, that seems entirely contradictory to Holdo & Rose’s sister sacrificing themselves for the resistance, unless Rian just wanted to drive home the narrative of “only women are heroes, men are dumb, cowardly, & reckless”. Poe & Finn had a great “buddy cop” type chemistry, it was a mistake to separate them in TFA and an even bigger mistake to separate them in TLJ. There was no reason not to have Poe & Finn do a side mission together that saves everyone, other than, Rian Johnson had his own narratives that he wanted to preach to the audience.

[@Bonko78]

I think Finn was botched about 15 minutes after that spectacular opening sequence of TFA, when he just started shooting his fellow stormtroopers with glee. It was all downhill from there.

[@adrianXXII]

Watching your videos on the sequels has changed the way I looked at them. I still like a lot of what The Last Jedi did and introduced, but I now am of the opinion that it doesn't work as the 8 episode of the main saga. I already felt before that the sequels dropped the ball when it comes to Finn and Poe, but you illustrated to me just how badly they dropped the ball on Finn. It'd be great, if we actually got a series following Finn that could do what Clone Wars did for the Prequels for the sequels movies.

[@commonsense5199]

Also Finn's relationship with Han Solo was completely ignored. Rian Johnson wants Han Solo matter only to Rey and Kylo Ren ignoring that Finn spent more screentime with Han than both of them Han tries to reason with Finn fight for the cause. Han's death ( and the voices that Finn hears are from the new republic cried out in terror went silent like Obi-wan and Alderaan. Both felt disturbance in the force) Those were stepping stone Finn be brave and fight Kylo Ren was completely ignored. Rian want Finn to be lecture by Rose and DJ because he believed Finn is a Sheltered person who don't know how the world works and tries to subvert the loyal friend commit to the cause like Han Solo. I'm not against that idea , but how rian did betrays Finn's growth as a character. Finn should have a dilemma about the stromtroopers instead of running away again, make Finn sit after he witness the injured resistances after FO's tracking it reminds Finn of the fallen stromtroopers or his trauma after his fight against Kylo Ren. DJ is one of the characters I really dislike in TLJ, he doesn't serve anything to the plot or Finn's growth. Him saying no good guys or bad just gave away the twist of him betraying Finn. Why finn cares about DJ, it really got me mad. It would be so much better They replace DJ with Phasma she did train Finn, praise Finn's skills, had a life before willingly joins the first order and she only cares for herself. Rian said Phasma a little screen time because it a big cast but the reality like disney did with Finn Rian use Phasma comic for marketing his words: "Most I just to hangout with Gwendoline Christine" ( io9.gizmodo.com/rian-johnson-almost-accidentally-killed-off-captain-pha-1821029761 ) If Rian going to bring Phasma back he should've gave her a larger role to Finn's arc instead of sidelined her along with him. If Dj never exist and nothing will be lost. Rian even Retcons Phasma Armor. Remember in TFA That Finn hold a blaster against Phasma's head so she can turn off the shields. But In The last Jedi Rian make Phasma's armor Blaster proof when rose shot her. Where is the consistency?

[@damandelorean]

It wasn't only Finn who had a blaster aimed at Phasma in TFA. Chewie also had a bowcaster pointed at her back and they disarmed her, so there was no escape for her even with a blasterproof armor.

[@agamagohenmapoke5303]

But Rey already knew who Han was and saw him nearly as a father, because she was already aware of the story of the rebellion. For Finn, Han was just a cool man, not a father figure. He didn’t scream « No ! » in TFA, Rey did. Then it’s understandable that he isn’t as much moved by Han’s death than Rey, Kylo, Leia, and Luke, are.

[@cheyennerodgers1996]

I've seen several videos about this exact topic and every single one has a new great point about how finn got screwed in this movie. Your point about how absent any of his opinions and views are is 🤌 I really feel like at the end of the day its obvious that rian just wanted to make a kylo ren movie and almost every other character fell by the wayside. Which especially sucks with finn because as you point out theres SO MUCH to explore with him. Hopefully he gets a kickass solo project in the future and we get answers about his force sensitivity and missing family and how the first order kidnapped him in the first place!

[@Astrodexterous]

Finn was my favourite character in Force Awakens, and I was so hyped to see where his 'Stormtrooper to Jedi' arc would go, only to have all those hopes ripped out by them sidelining him in TLJ. You've perfectly explained all the reasons why so many people feel this way.

[@RorikH]

What's weird is that there was no snap back to JJ's vision in TROS. He just followed Rey around for the entire plot, doing ... if not nothing, then absolutely nothing I can remember.

[@TheFirstOkiro]

TBH this is a problem with DOTF as well. TLJ, in its own way robbed a good amount of agency from Rey Anyways I don’t think people really realize

[@RorikH]

@@TheFirstOkiro WO, I've never been replied to by the actual poster before thanks. What I've noticed is weird about TLJ, especially after watching all of your videos, is that it takes up 1/3 of the trilogy but doesn't actually move the characters forward much. All of the main character's have their own whole arcs, but they just sort of lead back to where they already were. Finn is a member of the Resistance, Kylo is irredeemable, Poe is Leia's hotshot pilot, and Rey hates Kylo and is strong with the force. Snoke and Luke dying are the only things that really mattered in that movie.

[@TheFirstOkiro]

@@RorikH i’m slow to reply to comments because my comment section is pretty destroyed lol TLJ Is kind of a bottle episode that somehow kills two main characters. But then you realize if you remove the death of those two characters, nothing really happened in the film. I’m not saying they were killed off of the dramatic affect but… It kind of feels like they were killed off because of the dramatic affect

[@agamagohenmapoke5303]

The First Okiro are you kidding ?? DOTF completed Finn’s arc by making him the leader of the Resistance for the earth battle and making him rally other Stormtroopers and teach them how to fight against the First Order ! He gives him a complete arc and a meaningful ending, by directing the earth battle of Coruscant. It’s far more relevant that anything The Rise Of Skywalker gave him, because in TROS the other renegade Stormtroopers already exist, he is not responsible of their turn, and they don’t play any important role in the ending. If Finn wasn’t in TROS it wouldn’t have changed anything. If Finn wasn’t in DOTF, it would have changed everything. How can you say Finn had nothing in DOTF ? I think you are being unfair with Rian Johnson and Colin Trevorrow. They are better writers and directors and better fans of Star Wars than you seem to think they are. Finn’s arc in TLJ is so underrated. And I will say it, for me Finn was at his best in Duel of the Fates. Hate on me I don’t care.

[@TheFirstOkiro]

@@agamagohenmapoke5303 A stormtrooper rebellion doesn’t equal a personal arc. Its good for the sense of world building and lore, but we learn nothing about Finn’s past, his name, family, connection to the force, his foil relationship with Kylo is dropped and even his relationship with Rey is hijacked by Poe so Poe had something to do A stormtrooper rebellion is good, but DOTF lacks that personal touch to it for Finn. Biggest difference betweeen TROS and DOTF is finn doesn’t give a speech to stormtroopers but he still does lead a group of them on the final battle. Both scripts could’ve been better

[@hyperballadbradx6486]

Wow you make so many amazing suggestions for the 'what ifs'.... Makes me realise what a missed opportunity the sequel trilogy was. If they had only given them time to breathe, enjoyed making them, rather than trying to bash them out ready for the Christmas rush, maybe it could have been really special.

[@chocov1233]

I agree, that's it, basically everything you said was correct imo, that's not very common. Good job.

[@iamsean92]

Finn could have been such a badass. there was so much potential. such a waste of a great actor.

[@Dawnemperor1]

When I first got into the Sequel Trilogy (and really, Star Wars generally), I didn't quite understand what fans were bothered by. Different creators are always trying new things right? Over time, as I started learning more about the passion of fans, I started noticing things that bothered me as well. -If "the Last Jedi" wanted Luke to be genuinely cynical, then go for it. Don't make him a punchline just so Yoda can lecture him. You've brought up so many important reasons about how Finn was mistreated. At first, I thought I should've just respected the story. Finn was supposedly a bait and switch, and the story is about Rey and Kylo right? Wrong. Finn and John Boyega are such charismatic and original characters/actors. And you've pointed out how the Last Jedi treats him in a condescending way. Why does he have to relearn how to care about others? Why does the movie treat him like a cowardly traitor who has to be lectured about the First Order when he was a stormtrooper?

[@TheHayabusa1604]

Personally I don't think he watch TFA, I think he only saw the last 20 minutes, matter of fact I don't think he's watched any star wars movie before

[@IronFlowerZ]

Ryan killed the trilogy for me. The story was lost in the magic of film making. I did not stick around for TLJ and I am a legends girl.

[@davidb9639]

Rian Johnson took Finn and turned him into the comedy sidekick. Not very progressive when it comes right down to it.

[@babytoshiro7014]

yup

[@Hibbs4Prez]

A true limousine liberal.

[@babytoshiro7014]

@@Hibbs4Prez i guess that some weird "american" language you guys use over there hahaha and shooting beer can lol🤣🤣

[@6Rock6God6]

Holy fuck I am so glad to have found your channel. I literally have to stop myself from screaming when people say TLJ gave him a great arc.

[@KevyNova]

Rian Johnson doesn’t understand Star Wars.

[@tennawan]

I'll be honest, I went into this a "Finn's story in TLJ" defender but you brought up some really good points I hadn't considered and I get it now

[@MrBobby35790]

Geez, after watching this Finn goes from a mere missed opportunity to a giant, glaring omission and misunderstanding of a central character. Mark my words, the sequel trilogy will never be anything more than three mediocre sci fi movies with the "star wars" title. The prequels will be more fondly remembered than these.

[@TheFirstOkiro]

It’s no coincidence that Mark Hamill and John Boyega has been often discussing their disagreement about the direction of their characters

[@alexshdvideo]

Thank you for posting. Your idea options make a movie that I would want to see.... I didn’t make it through the last two episodes.. Finn being sideline was a huge loss... but there where other issues... Lots of huge opportunities squandered.... Honestly I would prefer seeing Jon Favreau and Dave Filoni fast forward to an alternative timeline in TV/Streaming series form if the actors where willing to come back..

[@ontasbulent5709]

Finn and Rose could have actually had a great dynamic. Rose lost her sister to the first order and then has to work with an ex stormtrooper Finn. She could have learned to trust him more and more during the mission and the there are no good guys and child slave scenes could have shown her that not everyone in the first order is bad

[@commonsense5199]

Star Wars resistance has The concept of the New Republic was explore not completely fleshed out. After the Demilitarization of the new republic navy they have to let go two Veterans Rebel Pilots, Yeager and His brother Marcus, forcing them to race to make money and it lead to the death of Yeager's wife and daughter. The show was really building up the Foreshaow of Kazuda Xiono's father Hamato who is a New Republic Senator supports the First order, three big plot points: 1) Hamato don't support the first order he see them as extremists. 2. Leia mentions to Poe and Kaz That the New Republic Senators are profiting First Order weapons that ties to Bloodlines book of senators Erudo Ro-Kiintor and Carise Sindian who are Centrist New Republic senators supports the first order. 3. Tierny somehow got Kaz's new Republic Navy service records, Hamtao have connection to the navy. and Final Hamato Xiono survive the destruction of the new republic warns his son, Kaz about first order hire bounty hunter, Even though Hamato nor Kaz haven't contact each other *"Over 6 Months"* , it obvious Hamato support the first order but it never been answered. And Tierny who is the Best Villain in the Star Wars Sequels (more competent than Kylo Ren) She and her relationship with Tam is something that could've been with Finn and Phasma if they weren't sidelined. Tierny told to tam she not a monster telling her the first goals is peace and absolute order nothing more. And Tierny told Tam like Phasma Tierny wasn't born into the first order she willing joins because she was scraping by under the new republic knowing she meant for actual more. ( kzbin.info/www/bejne/oqmohqWfidNnfck ) Star Wars resistance actually tries to address the repercussions from the new republic and Justin ridge want the First Order thematically portray as the police, it make them more flesh out than the movies did including Tam the opposite of Finn by story and publicity as she was not sidelined.

[@brysonstiles6737]

Do you have a Instagram i would really like to talk about ideas and fan fiction and story elements with you

[@Kusanagikaiser999]

1000% AGREES with you.

[@Hibbs4Prez]

Whoa....was 3:43 - 3:46 in the theatrical release of TFA ?

[@TheFirstOkiro]

Yep

[@gdhuertas07]

5:25 No one has been able to better articulate my frustrations about how Finn was handled in TLJ better than you.

[@annieandelsieofarendelle3294]

I think Poe and Finn's story arcs should've been switched, and someone else should have replaced Holdo or written her to be more bearable. Poe could go with Rose since he's a competent pilot and a high-ranking Resistance member, which might have more sway where he learns about the corruption in the Resistance and how they're not as perfect as he's always assumed they were; they could even have a moment where they learn the bombers were terribly made but extremely cheap which is why the Resistance bought them which nearly shatters their view on them being the good guys because of how many died thanks to those cheaply made bombers. Meanwhile, Finn remains on the ship because he's still healing from the injuries to his spine and gains a vendetta against the commanding officer since he thinks they're no better than the First Order commanders who just say 'Trust me' while throwing their men's lives away like scraps from their plate.

[@virgogaming6488]

I liked Finn more in TLJ than in the other 2 films but I understand the disappointment.

[@wildcricket]

They did Finn DIRTY, DIRTY, DIRTY DIRTY! (In my old Jamaican grand mama voice) (o_O)

[@davidanderson4748]

I felt like Rian was in a hurry and just shunted all the characters that were not Rey, Luke or Kylo aside on pointless side quests. Busy work that was pointless instead of exploring them.

[@wickdaline8668]

The could easily make a Falcon & Winter Soldier type show for Finn and Poe in response to Finn's mistreatment in the trilogy. Set post TROS. One where the two can go on a spy adventure and start a stormtrooper insurrection against what remains of the First Order. While also learning more about the force with Rey. Character like Jannah, Rose, Connix, Zorri, BB-8, maybe 3PO and R2, even Lando can star in it too. The series can also be set on Coruscant just like Colin's DOTF movie.

[@alienobserver21]

A plain no from me. Poe was never meant to be a lead, Finn was. If there should be a spin off show it should center around those two characters that were meant to be the leads and whose dynamic was meant to be central: Finn and Rey. Poe's popularity partly is a result of people wanting to shove Finn aside, this very much includes the DOTF movie. In any future story centered around Finn Poe should be what he was intended to be: a secondary character.

[@schwarzerritter5724]

"Hyperspace tracking is impossible. Well, except for the hyperspace tracking device in the ship right behind us. But what are the chances they are actually using it at this moment?"

[@ORIGINALFBI]

John absolutely got shafted due to racism. Not just from assholes who don't want to see a black jedi. But from Disney as well.

[@28starwarsfan]

Yes yes yes yes thank you for making this video

[@michaelwolf8690]

It's pretty clear that there was a plan for Finn. Otherwise there was no reason for him to have the origin that he did. It's also pretty clear that from the second scene he appears in none of the directors or writers who finished the sequel movies had the slightest idea what that plan was. He was a stormtrooper with no seeming understanding or sympathy to stormtroopers who's only character arc is chasing Rey around shouting her name until she finally ditches him.

[@agamagohenmapoke5303]

JJ Abrams never makes plan. He didn’t know where Lost was going, neither knew he where Mission Impossible was going after MI 3, neither where Star Trek went after Star Trek, nor Star Trek into Darkness. His way of writing is to install threads and then let the other ones develop the threads he installed. He didn’t make any plan for Finn’s development. Else we would have had an official source about it, like Colin Trevorrow’s script.

[@michaelwolf8690]

@@agamagohenmapoke5303 Abrams was a script doctor, not script writer, it's unlikely he had much say in Finn's origin. But even if he did write Finn into the film, then unquestionably he had a plan.

[@windghost2]

@@michaelwolf8690That plan was to make a him Jedi alongside Rey and eventually become Finn Skywalker, a literal nobody who comes from nowhere and inherits the Skywalker legacy. That was stolen from him and given to Rey in TLJ, while Rey being revealed as a Kenobi wasn’t built up or fleshed out following TFA.

[@kyletitterton]

Most of the issues you're highlighting is because the films were made so quickly and by different directors they honestly probably didn't even realise all the well made points you bring up. 2 years to write, produce then edit a gigantic Star Wars movie is absolutely mental. George did each of the OT in 3 and he'd plotted them out roughly years before. Johnson and Abrahams are decent filmmakers, I don't really blame either. Thought Johnson comes across as a bit too pleased with himself, JJ dropped in a few clunkers too.

[@MikeFarnhamGalaxysEdgeGroup]

Let me solve this for everyone....ITS A MOVIE. Move on

[@zs8118]

What a great video! Preach it bro! 🙌

[@spitfiremark1a768]

FINN is a great character wasted. A great start in establishing his chatacter, and wasted in the subsequent films. Great shame.

[@AspieMediaBobby]

Honestly, I`ll defend many things about Rian`s interpretation of the Skywalker Saga but ya, I can`t deny he did Finn dirty!

[@tomhur1]

While I liked Finn's arc in TLJ I completely understand your position and respect your opinion. There are even some points I can agree with you on.

[@chasx7062]

Chyna Chyna Chyna...Blame Chyna and the House of the Mouse heh

[@TheRonaldbaxter]

The arc for Finn never made sense. Apart from EpVII largely being a rehash of EpIV. The stormtrooper turns his back on the murderous Empire - sorry First Order 🙄 - and then goes on to merrily slaughter his brothers and sisters, troopers he has been brought up with and served alongside for years.

[@markbowman5515]

The Finn idea was stolen from the old Marvel comics #86...a deep cut that they thought nobody would know about

[@sterlingjones1187]

Interesting topic. I didn't like The Last Jedi for many reasons...this is one of them. I felt that Rian Johnson didn't continue the seeds that were planted by JJ Abrams in The Force Awakens. For me, I felt that Ep. VIII made Finn even more of an idiot. As you stated in the video, we see in TFA that Finn has made his decision of joining the resistance etc. Then comes that damn scene where Rose Tico gives Finn that lecture about the evils of the galaxy on Canto Bight. She's telling a CHILD SOLIDER about the evils of the galaxy?! Bottomline Finn COULD'VE been an awesome character, but Rian Johnson's inept storytelling (along with having different teams of writers) really "wounded" Finn**. **The rest of the characters from The Sequels weren't spared either.** By the way, why was I blocked on Twitter? 🤔

[@silentwillgames]

As much as I do enjoy the themes of The Last Jedi.. the use of his character was extremely underwhelming and missed the intent of that characters arch!

[@andyramirez4293]

bro are you the same guy who is always posting about Finn on twitter you have the same PfP while agree with your points on finn being a jedi i swear you post the same thing all the time lol. Guess i gotta respect your determination

[@DeviIGundam]

I hate Rian Johnson so much guys

[@mmluon]

Rian didn't care about Finn. As far as he and Disney were concerned, Finn had already served their purpose in TFA. A prominent character who is Black in a Star Wars film who also might be gay is a 2 for 1 virtue-signalling win. His character didn't need any more development than that as far as Twitter blue check mark fake fans were concerned.

[@BatSTUD]

Rian Johnson doesn't understand filmmaking. Hence, the Last Jedi.

[@agamagohenmapoke5303]

Who are you to pretend that ? Did you study filmmaking ? Did you make film ever ? Because Rian did. Who are you to pretend that he doesn’t understand filmmaking ? Did you even understand The Last Jedi ?

[@darkhart1275]

all the male roles were dummied down, for girl power.

[@chasx7062]

JarJar Abrams made Finn a Janitor; Rian saved Finn from Rose heh

[@philippealain-art]

Nobody understand Finn, nor the spectators, nor even abrams. He is a poorly written, empty, useless and incoherent character, like Rey, but in addition Rey contradicts everything that is Star Wars and the Jedi.

[@masturchief]

I remember at first when I was TFA I was so exited for the new characters and the things they set up. Then TLJ came out. Complete disinterest in Star Wars for a long time after that