Why RPG Developers Should Ripoff the Original Dragon Quest

RPGs are daunting projects for solo and hobbyist game makers, but by taking cues from the original Dragon Quest, it's possible to make a small-scale RPG even as your first game.
Links mentioned in the video:
‪@HPRshredder‬ Dragon Warrior 1 review: • Dragon Quest Review fo...
"It's Six Random Characyers and a Single Floor Dungeon That's The Whole Game" on Steam: store.steampowered.com/app/14...
#DragonQuest, #RPG, #GameDev
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[@TheCrawl]

Hey all! Here are links to the video and game I brought up in the video: "It's Six Random Characyers and a Single Floor Dungeon That's The Whole Game" on Steam: store.steampowered.com/app/1452000/Its_Six_Random_Characters_and_a_Single_Floor_Dungeon_Thats_the_Whole_Game/ @HPRshredder Dragon Warrior 1 review: kzbin.info/www/bejne/fXzcq32OoNygnK8

[@HPRshredder]

That is really solid advice for devs. For anyone who's ever taken an art history course; you usually spend a little while learning about the processes of artists on their journey to become professionals. Often they do something called "copying the master" where they find a work and attempt to duplicate it exactly to learn through the process of creation. Going back to the source and trying to understand what makes a classic game classic from a development perspective is sort of like the video game equivalent of creating a "Master Copy" Personally, my favorite thing about Dragon Quest was is way it begins and teaches you. You don't even have the ability to heal yourself until you level up. Then once you do level up, you save money by refilling MP rather than staying at the inn, making you more efficient. You can grind the lower-level enemies forever if you want to, but the monotony drives you to explore. Go too far though; and you die. I think that is just about the core of what makes an RPG addictive. It's finding that balance between grinding, rewards, and progression.

[@TheCrawl]

100%. The MP/grind/money balance another perfect example. The game is so simple, yet all of its systems have purpose and everything plays off the core battle-focused gameplay.

[@GreatistheWorld]

As someone who’s gotten into Dragon Quest in the last few years, I think developing an RPG without drawing from DQ’s lessons is like developing an FPS while never playing Doom. There’s a tightness, elegance and perfectly-dialed friction that frankly any genre can learn from. There could be a video like this for every Dragon Quest installment

[@SeveredLegs]

My favorite old DQ game is actually DQ2. A real sense of exploration for the first time in those days. Tough as nails, but extremely rewarding. There's a lot of nuance in the game for it being so simple. Part of the fun of the game is figuring out little things that instantly progress the story, like using the Mirror of Ra to turn the princess from a dog back to a human. Nothing flashy or developed. You've turned her human, she's part of the party now.

[@andrewferguson6901]

Oh my GOD the swamp mirror took me like a month to find as a child with no guide

[@SeveredLegs]

@@andrewferguson6901 Part of the fun!!!! haha

[@2FrogShiny]

👑

[@dopaminecloud]

What can be achieved in small titles like dq1 as well is that each location can serve a unique role with minimal overlap. Shrines as signposts for key-item progression, a mere 3(!) caves on the overworld, 2 of which are optional. Only two real dungeons. 5 towns, 3 of which you can visit within the first 20 minutes of play. It is so incredibly terse that the entire negative connotation of rpgs being tedious sounds insane to apply. Beyond that the game is generous too. Level ups very quickly and significantly grow your stats and each new spell is a game changer. New area too scary? One level up and a single piece of armor later and you're completely fine. It's snappy in pace but still presents the feeling of overcome real barriers rather than gliding along a stat curve so smooth you can't feel it by having these sharp steps in power.

[@SmidgenPC]

Great points. Reminds me of late last year, I played an old Genesis RPG called Sword of Vermillion. Very basic, but a breezy and enjoyable experience. Not every RPG has to be 50 hours long, that's for sure!

[@TheCrawl]

Ah, yeah! Sword of Vermilion is a great example. Same with the original Phantasy Star and Final Fantasy. Honestly, for as much as I love RPGs, it takes a lot for a game to hold my attention for longer than ~20-30 hours, tops. Anything shorter than that is a positive, imo.

[@XXXXD]

One of my favourite gameplay driven story telling comes from Dragon Quest 5 , right after you leave the docks you are ambushed by slimes hero cant do nothing and then Papas joins in to completly wreck them .

[@TheCrawl]

That's such a great gameplay moment! Dragon Quest V is on another level, truly one of the best RPGs ever.

[@nicholaslarson3778]

​@@TheCrawlDQ5 would have competed wonderfully against FF4 for my young imagination. I wish we had DQ5 in the US in the SNES era.

[@LauritzenLucas]

I actually find DQ1 quite brilliant, and there's a lot more to learn and think of about this game. I played the original NES version and the sense of risk, reward, openness, character immersion and sense of exploration is something most games failed to do for me. The sense of "this is your own personal journey" in this game is incredibly high, and I think it's why Japanese people loved it so much when it came out. When you focus too much on linearity, flashy cutscenes and overproduction you miss what makes a game remarkable. I'd rather replay DQ1 than replay something like the Horizon games.

[@KeyleeTamirian]

If you want something that has same sense of risk, reward, openness, character immersion and exploration - check out Morrowind.

[@LauritzenLucas]

​@@KeyleeTamirian I did a few days ago and you're spot on about it, I loved the game! I never liked Skyrim but Morrowind is something else.

[@baronbeat2210]

A mechanic I’d like to see is the Demon lord(BBEG) to make actual moves against the player character. Like a game of Chess. It would work well in a video game because unlike a tabletop game, a video game’s RPG aspect is already taken care of.

[@HighPriestFuneral]

You make a really interesting point. From a narrative perspective the big bad can be taunting and make his moves, but they're all scripted, dominated by the plot. There's nothing emergent about their actions. I can't think of any games off the top of my head which has the villain directly moving in opposition to the player in an emergent manner. Its all plot based or choice based.

[@baronbeat2210]

@@HighPriestFuneral like the concept?

[@HighPriestFuneral]

@@baronbeat2210 The concept is neat, yeah. I hate to say it, but with the rise of more sophisticated AI's this could be done for a proper RPG.

[@baronbeat2210]

@@HighPriestFuneral why do you “hate to say it”?

[@HighPriestFuneral]

@@baronbeat2210 Generative AI has a pretty poor reputation and could be used to make things a lot worse, but on the other hand it could be used to make things, in terms of video games, even better.

[@dyingculture]

DQ was the first RPG I played on a console, Dragon Warrior rather. I used to rent 1-4 on a regular basis, crossing my fingers that my save would be intact. Between that and CRPGs it was a golden age…every series was different but revolved around similar mechanics.

[@shanedunn8932]

Haha I just bought the DQ mobile port to do the very thing this video is about. I realized too many RPG Maker ideas I had were too grandiose while I'm still an intermediate level user, so I played through it and now I'm starting a new project with the same simple scope - one protagonist, a few relics to collect, one hub, maybe five small towns and a big overworld. Great video!

[@RoninCatholic]

My first finished game project was in fact an RPG. RPG making software is a lot more varied and more newbie-friendly than broader generalized game development systems. If I ever find a platformer game engine as user-friendly as various RPG Makers have been, I will make a platformer because that's my third-most-loved genre after console style RPG and action roguelite. The NPC who removes curses isn't from a different town on the other side of the map, he resides in the village immediately adjacent to Tantegel Castle (whether the version calls it Tantegel or Brecconary). You're also a lot more likely to find the cursed necklace long before the cursed belt. For me, trying to balance the stat lines of items and come up with a meaningful list of different spells/skills is one of the fun parts of making an RPG. I like drawing characters, but I'm not really fond of writing complicated plots and don't get very emotional over game stories nor do I have strong desires to instill them. I like really basic stories; "You're the cool looking hero guy, this is the big ugly bad guy, he's stolen your girlfriend/potential future girlfriend you haven't met yet, go beat him up" or "you're the team of cool looking hero guys, this is the big ugly bad guy, he's stolen the four Elemental Egg McGuffins that keep the world from imploding and is trying to implode the world, go collect the treasures until you're strong enough to beat him". The ideal kind of spell, class, enemy, and equipment balance I'd want to make is one where a randomizer mode would lead to _interesting_ gameplay videos with only a few late game things truly obsoleting the earlier ones. I'm almost addicted to giving players options that have drawbacks, and many such options. Late game equipment has bigger drawbacks your higher level heroes can compensate for better, giving better rewards while being more risky. Midgame full of overall equal (on paper) options with different benefits and different drawbacks shuffled around.

[@TheCrawl]

I resonate so much with everything you said, haha. Those are almost exactly the reasons I enjoy designing RPGs as well.

[@mix-n-match834]

I think that OG Pokemon titles are great example of game that was heavily inspired by DQ and in a lot of elements is derivate of it, but with some unique for its times spin and idea. DQ's basic, simplistic system makes it ideal for experimenting and adding new concepts.

[@ginxxxxx]

every. single. japanese. rpg. is inspired by DQ...in addition pokemon was inspired by greed.

[@Galanthos]

​@@ginxxxxxThe Black Onyx, Hydlide, and Dragon Slayer say hi. Hard to be influenced by something that didn't exist yet. You also have your direct Wizardry clones like Wizardry Gaiden, Wizardry Empire, and Elminage that that don't really share any DNA with Dragon Quest. I'd argue that the DQ Influence on SMT and Baroque is basically limited to "Well, it's an RPG, right?" Pokemon is a much clearer example of the "get a little stronger, reach the next town, a little stronger still, and then the next town" flow of a Dragon Quest title than even other contemporary DQ inspired JRPGs, like Final Fantasy 5 or 6.

[@ginxxxxx]

@@Galanthos wizardry is not a jrpg last i googled.

[@Galanthos]

@@ginxxxxx I'd say the Wizardry Games made in Japan, I.e. the ones I mentioned specifically definitely qualify, and even if you want to say that sylisitically they don't count because reasons, I'd also argue that something like Etrian Odyssey definitely does count, while borrowing next to nothing from DQ.

[@ginxxxxx]

@@Galanthos because reasons? lets just say there is no true meaning to anything.

[@leyria]

KZbin recommended this video to me, and I was pleasantly surprised when I watched it! I'm a programmer and illustrator, and for 4 years I've been making a 2D jrpg for sega genesis and pc/steam. The way we have an idea of an rpg that is always big and with a great plot, is not always the right one, after this video I looked for short rpgs and grateful it was not my surprise to see several pearls! Some I had played a long time ago, like phantasy star 1 (sms), rhapysod musical adveture(ps1), Sword of Vermillion(genesis), among many others. It got me thinking about how my own jrpg doesn't have to be that big to be captivating. thanks for this video :)

[@TheCrawl]

Glad I could help! I am very fond of the original Phantasy Star as well, I think it's a very underrated game of that era.

[@anarchychicken69]

Great take here. As a new UE5 guy I love this idea to make a small rpg maker like game to start in the big boy UE5 good way for me to learn about all the stuff it can do.

[@GameMakerRob]

I prefer the NES graphics to this version. The style just looks weird and the character art looks like a different style compared to say the chests

[@TheCrawl]

Entirely fair; I just used this version since I had my switch setup for capture.

[@RoninCatholic]

My preference is the translation of the NES version, but the art style of the Game Boy Color version. A lot of charm to the series was lost by not having the characters all speak in Elizabethan early modern English to evoke the middle ages/renaissance aesthetics of classic fantasy RPGs.

[@BladeBlur]

Thank you for explaining exactly why the original Dragon Quest is so genius. The simplicity of its design is rarely to its detriment and I think it's a wonderful gateway for Turn Based RPGs!

[@rremnar]

The dragon quest series is one of my favorites. I've played most of them since the original. I liked DQ3 and 4 the most during the NES days. I think I replayed DQ 4 more than any of the previous ones; because it was so good in its story telling. For those who aren't familiar with DQ4, you play as various characters through a series of short stories for each one, and they all come together later on as additions to the main hero. Each character has special abilities and things they excel at, which made them unique. Dragon Quest is an excellent example to base your first RPG off of; even though it's super old lol

[@dubistdran5781]

just saw this video and the point at around 6:37 is totaly true, I work with RPG Maker MZ and make a solo RPG (You can have a Pet and Summons if you don't want to be alone) But LIMIT your Scope! I don't have pressure caused by Time on me, cause it is a Hobby for me. But Even I had to cut short on a few things that I might add later if I ever finish my project. I wanted to make a Turn based RPG with Elements of Morrowind and the Type based Battle System of Pokemon, and omfg this is way harder than one may think. I have made a Crime System where guards attack or arrest you when you have a bounty and citizens report your crime when they see you commiting one, working on crafting right now, did most of the Abilities ( nearly 50 DIFFERENT!) 1 for Player and the same for NPC's cause you level via using skills. Then there is my big Weakness, the Visuals, I bought many things and still had to do change some stuff to make it work. Then there is Dialog even for every unneccessary NPC, which all are attackable so you need for every skin an own troop, than there are overworld encounters which are mostly non-monster stuff, like Bandits and other Humanoid creatures... which have different skin colour and Skins overall... Which all need a troop again, and because you can see them in the Overworld I can't randomize it...Everything needs to be done by Hand... Oh and of course there are mixing Enemies in the Troops... I could go on and on and on... I have around 50 or 60 hours in, and still doing the groundwork (I have 2 Citys and 2 Dungeons and 2 Routes if you would consider them this, but still...), yeah I nearly finsihed the groundwork.. for now, but please if anyone is reading this. Know what you can achieve in the time you set yourself and what is neccessary for your core gameplay to work.

[@tinyetoile5503]

Dragon Warrior (calling it that bc I was bequeathed an NES cartridge from my mom) is probably one of the only RPG games I've ever played where I actually bothered with status effect spells like sleep, because the 1-on-1 combat meant that using those spells was actually worth it and not just a waste of mana and a turn. Actually, something similar happened with spells in general in the game- while in something like Final Fantasy (ESPECIALLY FF1, which I also have on the NES) I found I basically never used my mages outside of boss fights because I was trying to conserve my spell slots for those boss fights, so every spell used on the trek to them was a spell wasted- but in Dragon Warrior, after realizing there was no point trying to conserve MP between towns and inn trips, I let myself use spells in casual fights and the gameplay immediately clicked into place for me.

[@TheCrawl]

This is such a good point! I actually am working on a follow-up to this video that touches on some of these points.

[@galaxydungeon1322]

Dragon Quest I is a fantastic game, no wonder it inspired the genre.

[@StiffAftermath]

Eww...those “remake” character sprites. something wrong with them. i think they are too high resolution compared to the more pixelized tile-based background art. And that sickeningly smooth font. No, sir. Not for me.

[@LC-id6wx]

Yeah, it looks atrocious. There is no artistic cohesion. Reminds me of the godawful FF5 and FF6 steam ports.

[@legonenen]

Tilesets somehow reminding me a tad of RPGMaker MV's default graphics; but yeah the sprites in particular seem to kinda clash. edit: tho I slowly got used to them :P

[@Lucasxd331]

I like to design modular systems, even if I can't make them myself, so that one system can serve multiple purposes, which is GOLD for making games like this. For example, in the last game I created, the same dialogue system was used as a turn-based combat system, only with health variants for both the main character and the enemies being attached to certain dialogues playing. That way, you just had to select the dialogue from the box and the damage would be done (with an added variance in damage). The enemy would just play a random attack from a list and deal damage based on a similar variance.

[@TheCrawl]

That’s a brilliant idea!

[@KoutenMusashi]

This has been my whole philosophy while learning programming recently. Dragon quest, FF, and shining force are all in the vein of what I want to make

[@wariodude128]

I was actually inspired to come up with an RPG after seeing HPRShredder's video on 3D Worldrunner. Really surprised Square didn't use it or JJ: Tobidase Daisakusen Part II as their starting point, so decided to come up with one of my own. Anyway, I made a violin and viola duet medley of the songs from this game called Dragon Questing which you can find on my channel. The second tune might sneak by if you're not paying attention, since it's the "stay at the inn" song that lasts all of two seconds. Check it out if you have the time.

[@TheCrawl]

Just gave it a listen, great job! And heck yeah, Shredder is a close friend. Thanks for checking out the video!

[@maxis2k]

The points made in the video are what I look for in an RPG myself. And why I'm less interested in cinematic driven games. Even Dragon Quest XI. Dragon Quest VIII was a modern RPG which still allowed the player to explore like a classic RPG. Yeah, there were some cutscenes. But usually just when you first meet a key NPC and then after completing a major quest for that NPC. In between, the game expected you to go find clues by talking to other NPCs, exploring towns/the world and doing side quests. Basically, what old DQ games I-VII also did. The inclusion of quest bubbles and icons on the map with Dragon Quest IX, as well as linear zones and objectives, was a step backwards in my opinion. Dragon Quest XI kept these and felt more like a Final Fantasy game like X or XII. Still better than those FF games in my opinion, but less free and open like earlier DQ games.

[@YourFriendJacob]

Great video! I enjoy the emphasis on limiting scope as well as highlighting what all Dragon Quest did within limitations and a shorter time-length. Honestly, shorter RPGs are a selling point for me. I like to experience as many games as I can so playing a super long RPG is harder to balance with other games I want to play. The longer time-length can also lead to more repetition or bloat that might take me out of the experience. A 5-hour RPG (or shorter RPG in general) may seem like a turn-off for some people but for me that's exciting! I know I can experience all it has to offer and still have time to experience other games too.

[@TheCrawl]

I resonate with wanting shorter RPGs, and shorter games in general. I love getting lost in a big world now and again, but I also like it when games, y'know, give a full experience and tell a full story. Part of what drove me to try my hand at game design was to make smaller RPGs for folks like us haha.

[@YourFriendJacob]

@@TheCrawl Sounds great and I'm excited to see and hear more on the development of those games from you.

[@baronbeat2210]

I love this video because It explains why I love DQ so much! I’d love to see a video like this of the original Legend of Zelda.

[@vj7248]

Funnily enough, Voice of Cards specifically did this! I really enjoyed it as a bare bones JRPG, with a neat lil Yoko Taro story.

[@TheCrawl]

Ah, that's rad! I haven't given it a go quite yet, but I might after your recommendation. I also feel the same about Dungeon Encounters, which Square Enix also put out around the same time last year. It was one of my favorite RPGs from last year.

[@thommccarthy1139]

Love your channel. Been a web focused dev for years but interested in jumping into to game dev for hobby purposes. Dq is one of my fave series and loved this breakdown and scope overview.

[@Thirteen13551355]

Funny how you're showing footage of a version of Dragon Quest 1 in which items on the floor, originally discovered through clues and hints from townsfolk, are now just highlighted by a huge sparkle. That's like 1/4th of your DQ1 playthrough taken away.

[@TheCrawl]

As I said in another comment, it was simply the easiest version for me to capture at the time lol

[@fikamonster2564]

Really liked this video (and others you made) My DREAM GAME is an dungeon rpg like etrian odyssey with a few twists and modernizations. But that is massively hard and requires skill If i were to pursue that goal, i would do a lot of mini rpgs first, each focusing on different aspects of the final game: a lot of prototypes. And the first one will be what you mentioned in this video: single party member, rpg barebones I liked this vidwo

[@CAGEMETAL]

came back to this vid for more inspiration from my game lol, this is legit one of my favorites vids ever honestly !!

[@gordonfenn7373]

Great video 🎉 Love your rebranding of the joys of rpg ambiguity

[@CAGEMETAL]

man that motivated me so much. Might do my own game one day

[@AutMouseLabs]

What a fantastically motivating video. Thank you for this. It was just what I needed today.

[@Raymond13557]

i do love me some dragon quest so i am going to make a ghost hunting dragon quest style game

[@TheCrawl]

That sounds rad. Let me know when you release it!

[@Raymond13557]

@@TheCrawl i believe that I can make it in game maker studio 2, the art will not be fancy but I am certain that the game will be good

[@richardgallimore5976]

I don't think Dragon Quest is a 5 hour game. Maybe ported versions are as they're made easier, but I think the OG is closer to 20 hours due to lots of grinding & figuring out where to go next & such (although maybe I'm just bad, it took me ~25 hours to beat Dragon Warrior). I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure DQ1 monsters do have variance in HP, even if you do the same damage to the same monster type the monster won't always die. Maybe I'm thinking of DW2 or 3 though. Good advice I think that would be a good decision by a newer game developer to start out more basic.

[@thomasffrench3639]

Yeah, despite being one of the most influential franchises the first entry does not have many rip offs. Most console RPGs at the time ripped off Dragon Quest II, III or IV. The only decent ones are Momotaro Densetsu and Glory of Heracles I.

[@raidev_]

the thing is, moat developers got into making an rpg because they have a story to tell

[@TheCrawl]

Agreed! And most of them never complete a project, let alone their big dream game with a massive story and tons of characters, gameplay systems, side quests, etc. This is not a prescription for how all RPGs should go, it's a suggestion for keeping your first project(s) small and a few alternative ways of approaching storytelling and content so the game actually gets completed.

[@RoninCatholic]

For me, I never really had much of a story to tell. I had designs and simple personalities for heroes (one- or two-note personas I'd project onto my unnamed, personality devoid party members in games I played with a customized party or silent protagonist) and a lot of ideas of what I thought would be fun weapon, armor, and spell options in a turn based RPG. I am very into worldbuilding though, so I try to flesh out the explorable areas as much as I can and will try to make things "make sense" even at the expense of gameplay. Like a weird mix of a gamist and simulationist, in Tabletop RPG terms.

[@mrwizard5012]

@@TheCrawlIronically the same advice for finishing rpgs is true for written stories!

[@ty-xq7bl]

extremely useful video!

[@TheCrawl]

Glad I could help! Thanks for watching!

[@fredericjuliard4261]

Merci.

[@raam726]

That dragon looks like the first monster from dragon ball

[@TheCrawl]

Both were illustrated by Toriyama :)

[@albanmahoudeau1779]

T'ES 1 SOURIS DANS UN TROU-A-RATS.: THE FIRST ONES JRPG.'S."L'ANCIENNE RACE.LA RACE TRES ANCIENNE." SELON LOVECRAFT.

[@donaldpaul5279]

😣 𝐩𝓻Ỗ𝓂Ø𝓈Ｍ

[@HighPriestPlays]

Yeah, Im going to have to heavilly disgree with you're take on emrgent storytelling. the fact is emergent storytelling is complete crapshoot at actually telling a story, because no matter much time and effert you put in or how well made it actually is, if its possible for a player to just completly miss the vast majority of said story on acident, than thats very bad. Emergent storytelling is best used to sumplent an actuall story , Either through random events or via worldbuilding stuff, so as to flesh out the world and keep repated playthroughs fresh. Now, If you not if you're not trying to tell a specific story, but intead crate asandbox for others to maker thier own storys. than emergent story telling is great. but even than its still a bit of a crapshoot.

[@TheCrawl]

I think you misunderstood what I was saying--which, fwiw could entirely be because of the way I explained it. First, I wasn't talking about "emergent storytelling" as in a sandbox game, but rather just simple interactions that could exist in any game. The point there is to place the "narrative" on all actions taken by the player, rather than cordon off "story" from "gameplay," and the examples I highlight were to show how simpler, hands-off approaches are much easier to pull off and can still tell the same story events, even if they're not presented cinematically. Second, the whole point of the video was to suggest solo and hobbyist devs I'm not arguing that any style of storytelling is better/worse than the others. As I say throughout, it's not about what I think AAA RPGs should do, nor what I think all games should do. It's also not trying to say hands-off storytelling is "better" and than directed storytelling, Sure, I mention I prefer certain styles, but that's a matter of taste and I wasn't trying to convince anyone to change their minds. And while I recognize I took a more persuasive tone in those sections, I did so bc I wanted to give solo/first time devs alternative options for gameplay design and narrative design that are easier to achieve for smaller projects, and reassure that a smaller scope or more hands-off approach are valid and can still evoke feelings of adventure that players would want from an RPG. Obviously, whether a player responds as intended comes down to the player's preferences, but that's a different discussion.

[@HighPriestPlays]

@@TheCrawl We might be talking past each other than, because i was also talking about placing the narrative actions on the player and how that runs the risk of you're players just never experiencing much if any narrative. I mentioned sandbox games but that might have been me misusing terms.

[@2FrogShiny]

The switch remake is so ugly. 🤢 You should have used any other version for this video. But great video regardless.

[@albanmahoudeau1779]

WHAT THIS IS REALLY AMAZINGI. %REALLY=RALLY.