Why Solid Carbon is the Future of Energy Storage

[@ZirothTech]

Thanks for watching! Don't forget to get started in Onshape for FREE: Onshape.pro/Ziroth​ - You won't regret giving it a try!

[@etmax1]

Actually in Roman times they were lead.

[@CUBETechie]

When I have 1m³ Block i have 6 surfaces 6m² but how far can the TPV panels placed?

[@philippewinston2740]

another climate change propaganda

[@AndrewSheldon]

You missed that fossil fuels is a feedstock in petrochemicals (plastics) and cement making (flyash); not just heat.

[@RulgertGhostalker]

climate change is Primarily due to loss of planetary carbon sink. the "end world hunger campaign" caused more loss of carbon sink capacity than the amount of carbon released into the atmosphere.

[@cloggedpizza239]

I am a merchant mariner and it would be cool to have one of these in an exhaust boiler so when in port or anchored we don't need to use a oil boiler to generate steam. On ships its one of the ways we use "waste" heat for power. Heating fuel and the ships.

[@dragoscoco2173]

Would not work at all.

[@cloggedpizza239]

@@dragoscoco2173 why not? Instead of using resistive heating you could use steam or exhaust right?

[@dragoscoco2173]

@@cloggedpizza239 Steam has a limit to how hot it can get, exhaust too. You do not need graphite for those temperatures, oil will do just fine. Also at low temps getting work out of that lukewarm material is subject to the Carnot cycle efficiency of sub 15%. So unless you transform that heat into electrical at sub15% efficiency to heat the graphite to high temps you will not get much energy back. I suppose some engineers thought of this and found the oil tank to be the adequate and best case scenario for both usability, weight and price for what it returns.

[@cloggedpizza239]

​ @dragoscoco2173 I was more referring to heat storage in genral not nessarly grafite but I have heard of other companeis using ceramic with steam. But I beleave our ships exuast only reaches around 400c-600c after the turbo. But I guess it would be inefficient in weight to store enough energy for 3 days at port and may effect stabilty becuase of weight. But maybe the infared pannels could have use.

[@dragoscoco2173]

@@cloggedpizza239 Found a somewhat decent data source. I quote "The team’s design can generate electricity from a heat source of between 1,900 to 2,400 degrees Celsius" and uses multi junction TPV tech which is the most expensive to date achieving 40% efficiency on a tabletop experiment, not the actual battery which is mostly theoretical. So i expect it to perform exponentially poorly below 1900'C and the real life efficiency to be less. TPV sound nice and it would be great to have some, but we do not have a decent way to make any in a usable temperature range.

[@Andrew-rc3vh]

At 1700C you would get a theoretical conversion efficiency to electricity of about 75% with a Carnot cycle. It increases with the temperature. I was wondering if you could molten sand as perhaps another option. You have a boiling point of 2230C and in its molten state heat conductivity would increase, and another thing is you get some extra storage capacity from the latent heat when it melts. Also one thing totally left out in the video is leakage of heat. You are up agaisnt the Stefan-Boltzmann law of sigma T^4. How do you mitigate this as T rises?

[@danielaccattini70]

I also felt the lack of these points. It seems like a laboratory idea that won’t be at the market, maybe never.

[@herzogsbuick]

Hmmm, I thought that solar plant in Nevada (Crescent Dunes) was molten sand, and I came here to post about it, except it's molten salt. Hmmm. Hmmmmmmmm.

[@untaintedwheelchair]

The idea is a called solar thermal power plant, and the technology has been around since the 60s. Its efficiency is around 75% in ideal conditions too.

[@alexlindekugel8727]

itsa moltel salt.@@herzogsbuick

[@SahilP2648]

Double metal walled insulation won't work?

[@tedbomba6631]

Thanks, Z, and colleagues, for another well done video. I'm a 77 year old guy who is constantly encouraged by the brilliant, innovative thinking behind technologies such as this carbon battery and then having the knowledge and guts to start a game changing business. The young men and women of your generation have the future of our planet looking better and better. It's wonderful to see those who speak so negatively about our young people being proven completely wrong so frequently.

[@wickedcabinboy]

@tedbomba6631 - This is a fascinating video and very promising. I'm retired and it's wearying hearing the rising generation of younger scientists and engineers constantly disparaged and denigrated by old timers. For starters, the old timers are simply and demonstrably wrong. Their bias is unreasonable. I've been in the medical field for nearly thirty years and I've seen the medical and biomedical advances coming from fresh young faces for that entire time.

[@davefoc]

74 year old here and I think about that as well.

[@jimbob-jn6jz]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/oamUe6uha9CdmLM

[@janetteshelly905]

This appears to be a very promising technology. I have one question: where does the carbon come from? Hoping it is sustainable…

[@RajSingh-c1n]

Hey , old man, I have a lot of knowledge about these subjects, ask me if you have doubts

[@rhkavli]

Let's de-carbonize with pure carbon!

[@anthonyjaccard3694]

As long as it's not in the atmosphere as CO2, carbon is not a problem so yeah that's the idea. And it's a genius idea, especially if they use carbon from carbon capture

[@lucbloom]

Lol, was going to write the same - Carbon; this time it’s good for the environment.

[@ZirothTech]

In batteries seem like the best place for it! Haha

[@ericlotze7724]

“Carbon Sequestration in Construction” (CSIC) / “Carbon Sequestration in Materials (CSIM) is a bit of a concept I thought of a bit ago. I have to dig for papers, but it could honestly be a method for CCS. There is a PILE of stuff on Enhanced Weathering in Concrete and all that, but using a PILE of Carbon Black or Carbon Fiber or even just *petrochemicals* made from *Sustainable* Biomass and/or Power-to-X tech. I can ramble about this all day, but I think it is a really interesting area, although LCA’s may make it less exciting as i think! Either way it’s worth more amazing coverage like this, at least in my book!

[@CroissantCreates]

That’s actually the goal, lots of carbon in one spot is the best way to decarbonize the air and water around us

[@peetiegonzalez1845]

I like how he's also literally taking carbon out of the carbon cycle to make these heat reservoirs. The IR mirror returning unused photons back into the reservoir is genius.

[@brodriguez11000]

Maybe carbon doping to alter frequency of light emission to make solar panel work better. Or tuned antenna solar capture instead of just bandgaps.

[@koiyujo1543]

that's being looked into I believe I mean we made stuff like mirrors for solar @@brodriguez11000

[@koiyujo1543]

an IR mirror has been talked about by a TPV graphite energy using liquid tin to heat up the graphite and store it and using tungsten to radiate the glow of energy off the graphite and whatever is left you can cover other sizes using IR mirrors and their so good really this was from MIT from last year and I love it

[@anydaynow01]

This would be a good use of solid carbon precipitate from turquoise H2 production, in way it would produce short to medium energy storage with the thermal carbon batteries and long term seasonal / emergency storage with H2, especially when the H2 can be stored in a carbon matrix like some companies are pioneering. This would even be carbon negative if RNG is used.

[@RandomActsOfMadness]

How does this technology compare to water electrolysis, producing hydrogen and oxygen? From what I can read, the round-trip efficiency , electricity to electricity, is around 40%. Would love to hear the company compare themselves..

[@andreasmuller4666]

Alternative energy storage technology is a very interesting toppic. On the vid side itself. Clear presented, flowing script without any "breaks" in the narrative. Well chosen pictures for visual representation and the audio balance for voice vs background music is very well done too. Nothing to add but a round of praise.

[@ZirothTech]

These words mean more than you think! Thank you 🙏

[@hg2.]

Decarbonization is 21st century cathedral/pyramid building. It is orchestrated human sacrifice for a superstition. AGW is a superstitious bunk.

[@w0ttheh3ll]

Has the heat extraction been tested in an industrial setting? If so, at what temperature?

[@SolarWebsite]

And, at what scale.

[@noahprussia7622]

Always "Heat batteries! Renewable!" never "Heat batteries! Usable!"

[@Resist.Tyranny]

Insulation. Very important part you left out. Very difficult at these very high temperatures.

[@thekinginyellow1744]

How they keep O2 out and what they use for insulation are almost certainly proprietary. OTOH, I'm sure the insulation is silicate or borosilicate glass bricks, like the tiles on the shuttle or starship.

[@markotrieste]

Planck is going to be proud of those guys... That mirror in a cavity is real genius. One question though: how do they prevent glowing graphite to react with air and burn?

[@FlakeyPM]

I'd be guessing CO2

[@hansmuller1625]

Surround it with inert gas, such as nitrogen, CO2 or something else. I realize those gases are not strictly inert, but they are in this context.

[@markotrieste]

@@hansmuller1625 Yes of course changing the atmosphere inside solves the problem, however, they were talking about opening shutters to get the heat out, so I am puzzled.

[@JohnDoe-ji5wg]

@@markotrieste The heat shutters could open to another controlled atmosphere with a radiator?

[@BrokenLifeCycle]

They're probably going to use a refractory glass that is transparent to whatever band of the EM spectrum they need for a specific application. Maybe Quartz. Maybe Sapphire. Maybe germanium.

[@TheEVEInspiration]

How efficient is it really? First the loss in the wind/solar device. Then the heating of the block. Then MOVING the block to where it is used. Then the 40% of turning it back to electricity. And depending on the use, there are several more layers of energy loss. It sounds better to me to just use it as a battery on side of generation, acting as a buffer. Not having to deal with transporting back/forth, batteries. How well does it compete in that with other battery tech?

[@Kal-0000]

It isn't more efficient, kind of dumb that they're reinventing something that doesn't need reinventing but simply done for the sake of decarbonization. If anything sounds like an easy money grab from investors who doesn't understand anything about thermal batteries (I remember there is a molten led thermal battery used with Stirling engine, don't know what has happened to it last time I saw it was 2017). Great example of this is concentrated solar plant, more efficient than photovoltaic. I'm waiting for thunderf00t to make a video and shit on this too lol.

[@Simqer]

The round trip efficiency was mentioned to be 30-40%, which for me is not very worth it. Even if the renewable energy LCOE is low (0.04-0.05 $ per kwh), with that efficiency you would need to sell it at 0.15$ per kwh just to break even. If they could raise it to 50-60% round trip efficiency, then we can talk. Because even with Lithium based batteries, the round trip efficiency is between 80 and 90%. With 50-60% efficiency and the low cost of storage, the overall LCOE would be less than $0.10 per kwh, which is about the same as fossil fuel and nuclear LCOE. And they would still be able to make money at $0.15 per kwh.

[@juanolotgn]

Efficiency does not matter, just money gained per cycle per dollar invested If the cheapest electricity price in a day is 0.00 and 0.25 - would you rather have one 100% efficient battery, or fifteen 40% efficient batteries? You'll make more money with the lower efficiency ones

[@SeanWork]

Yeah I'm wondering if Power-to-Gas (use renewable to great H2) still beats this out. I've heard those systems are way more efficient than people realize. Plus there's no new tech and parts are standardized.

[@MyrKnof]

Only use case i see is where you cant bring power otherwise because of.. reasons..

[@mikebrant192]

Solid graphite is also used for heavy duty arc plasma lances used in steel foundries, carbon arc steel cutting, high-powered searchlights (called arc lights), and more. Great use of this old tech!

[@privatemale27]

Arc lights came to mind almost immediately as they can just run current through the graphite blocks to heat them up. No extra heating coils using Tungsten needed.

[@rhiantaylor3446]

I would be interested to know how they contain and insulate the carbon blocks if the are hot enough to melt steel.

[@mrjoepietube]

yea that question also arose to me.

[@koaasst]

he said 3000 celcius stable, steel is 1500

[@karlstruhs3530]

Non metallic storage Like heat shield tiles, ceramics. stuff like that.

[@JohnDoe-ji5wg]

Silica aerogel fiberglass around the graphite, steel around the silica aerogel.

[@niceshotapps1233]

Also ... what do they use as their heating element so it doesn't melt or oxidize. And howcome graphite doesn't burn in the air?

[@chrisbarron5861]

When I was a kid we used solid carbon capture from the heating system. We called it soot, in the chimney

[@leokimvideo]

Always massive losses when trying to make electricity from stored thermal anything. So this is the BIG problem here in trying to do anything amazing

[@jamesdownes1974]

That was absolutely fascinating - thank you. You’re a great communicator with a way of describing relatively complex topics in a clear and accessible way.

[@dwc1964]

This seems like a brilliant thermal battery for use in heavy industry, and a suboptimal battery to get electricity out of. There are other ways to store energy & get electricity out, besides lithium ion (which really ought to be reserved for vehicles & the like that require its particular characteristics), that seem more promising to me for storage at grid scale & residential scale - liquid flow & sodium ion come to mind. Different tools for different jobs, and it's great to see how all of them are coming along.

[@plafar7887]

Yep

[@arnenl1575]

That is indeed an oft-seen blind spot: not accounting for the continuous development of new technology. Lithium ion will not be used long-term for stationary storage, so comparing the heat battery to this technology doesn't feel right. And cars.... the first car using sodium ion is already for sale in China. I predict that sodium ion will be the standard for mass-market vehicles and lithium ion only used in the premium segment.

[@davidclark2286]

​@@arnenl1575grid storage batteries are normally lithium iron (LPO4/LFP) a different technology which has a much longer life than the lithium ion batteries.

[@adam-g7crq]

Liquid air and liquid metal batteries are looking like an interesting option for affordable and scalable grid storage, I'm sort of surprised that he didn't mention these as options at the end of the video sodium iron is looking exciting as well.

[@Xaelum]

You mentioned that materials like concrete or sand are not effective because they can't transfer energy fast enough. This, while true, hides the fact that the biggest limiting factor for emitting/absorbing energy is the ratio of volume and surface. While sand is not great at conducting heat, you can exponentially increase its surface area by changing its form (for example, creating a shallow layer of sand just using gravity). Once it's surface area has increased, heating and cooling becomes way faster. This is something you can't easily change the shape of a graphite block, though, so you're limited to only use the pre-existing shape

[@leesmith9299]

video suggestion - here you mention at one point the heat in these can be stored for days. could be explore the need for and solutions to seasonal storage be it heat or electricity. so keeping it half a year if we get more renewables in one season vs another. i guess wind and solar counteract each other somewhat but how much and what will we do about the difference. probably not the short term goal but eventually when almost all energy is not made by burning stuff they will need to balance out over seasons.

[@CaemmYsWoed]

For very long term storage, the Finnish thermal sand batteries seem like a better solution. At least for stuff like domestic heating. Lower operating heat (500C) + even cheaper storage medium (sand)

[@kennethferland5579]

Seasonal storage is where I think chemical fuel synthesis will have a strong chance. A chemical fuel can be stored with zero loss basically indefinitly and their are plenty of already existing peaking powerplants (basically big jet engine turbines connected to a generator) already in place which are going to lose market share to the short term renewable storage solutions. Repurposing these generators into a seasonal powerplant will be effectivly free, at that point it's just a matter of replacing fossil fuel usage with synthesized hydrocarbons made durring times of peak energy availability.

[@drillerdev4624]

@@CaemmYsWoed it was all around the news last year, but haven't heard about it since. I wonder how much progress they've made, by now.

[@DerMacko]

That is highly unlike to be cost effective and/or it won't pay back itself ever. If you think how many charge/discharge cycles you get out of your storage over its lifetime vs the cost to build and maintain it, getting only a single cycle in a year makes the equation super difficult...

[@drillerdev4624]

@@DerMacko "cycles" is not a valid unit here. What you want to know is yearly returns, which is energy provided per cycle X number of cycles per year X average price per kilowatt (assuming you can completely discharge, which is another factor) If you can only do a single yearly cycle, but that one cycle provides steady heating for 6 months, know it doesn't sound that bad

[@jfish4460]

I've watched many many videos like this for years, new breakthroughs, that never happens! This is that kind of video!

[@ghp486]

Same here.

[@jonezaz]

When I was an undergraduate decades ago, an embargo led to a scarcity of oil. Solar panels were installed on the White House (and were torn off in less than five years when they stopped working); a grad student at my alma mater modeled the performance of an electric delivery van; nuclear power plants proliferated. A professor of an environmental engineering course hypothesized about the potential impact should carbon dioxide be considered a pollutant like sulfur dioxide. Tesla perhaps, a company that only manufactures EVs, is the most valuable car company in the world. The solar panels on the roof of my home for over a decade paid for the installation cost in electricity savings within seven years. Two new nuclear plants started up in the past year, the first plants built since the 1980s. Breakthroughs HAPPEN!

[@christiankruse1970]

It all sounds great for utility scale storage. So why isn't it already widespread? Something about the economics must not have been explained.

[@Tryp-j9d]

The GIGANTIC WINDMILLS….HAVE happened!!! MORE of them EVERY SINGLE DAY!!!

[@justanamerican9024]

Thank you for another informative video. My son ans I were talking about the need to develop better large scale batteries for the future just yesterday. This sounds like another very effective option with versatility that other sources don't have. I first found out about the properties of heated carbon in welding class fifty years ago. With an arc welder, two carbon rods hooked up to the welder and brought almost touching together, creates the perfect brazing temperature. They glow like heated steel and last for an impressive time.

[@johnkubik8559]

could you develop on what materials are used to thermally insulate a 2000C graphite core and on the photocells able to survive at such temperature?

[@theairstig9164]

More graphite. Just thicker so it’s only hot in the middle. After that, glass fibres

[@JohnDoe-ji5wg]

There's Starlite and silica aerogel.

[@niceshotapps1233]

@@JohnDoe-ji5wgone is getting wasted as it isolates, the other is super expensive.

[@JohnDoe-ji5wg]

@@niceshotapps1233?

[@johnkubik8559]

@@theairstig9164 graphite as very well described in the video is a very good thermal conductor, in deed as good as aluminum, not an insulator.

[@kennethugalde7325]

Any problem with materials (others than graphite/graphene) inside the "battery" reaching temperatures >2.000⁰C? I.e.: electricity>heat & heat>electricity converting system's materials?

[@markhenderson9778]

I am not sure what battery storage you say has a 4-6 year lifespan but Tesla’s Megapack has a 15 year warranty.

[@bussdriver]

Probably it's a capacity lifespan that is so short. Worn out PV panels from a solar farm selling cheap are about 70-80% and cost effective to replace with new PV but still quite usable for many more decades; they just take up more space for the same production.

[@brianfhunter]

@@bussdriver - Using Batteries on almost ideal conditions, increases the life span by a LOT... when you have an ambient with very controlled temperature, zero vibrations and very careful charge and discharge, you can reach insane number of cycles... that is why Tesla's Megapack has 15 years warranty

[@brianfhunter]

Im not sure about anything about this video, everything he said smells bullshit... 40% efficiency solar panels? no specifics on how the reflection works on practice and ZERO details on how the energy goes in and out.

[@Neojhun]

@@bussdriver The 15 year warranty is a capacity guarantee, soo no there is no massive capacity loss.

[@rogerthomas7040]

The latest Megapacks have a 15 year warranty as their design moved to lithium iron phosphate cells, which is a game changer for the lithium based storage market. Any solution based on lithium ion batteries will have a much lower lifespan for any solution that cycles the battery daily.

[@Simplicitywins]

Finally, someone focused on the problem of thermal conductivity. This is a brilliant idea. Thanks for the great content!

[@braindecay9477]

You polished your data. 35% efficiency is only the one isolated step. Altogether the system gives you ~5% efficiency, so 95% of the energy you put in gets lost

[@curties]

worked in energy and this would be a game changer for many industries even if the conversion back to electricity is only 30%. buying excess energy to fill up batteries at zero cost would not only net the company a profit but also help the grid.

[@backacheache]

I could imagine one of these being installed at somewhere with a constant need of heat like a large swimming pool and its charging only turned on when "the price is right". This would save them moment and reduce their useage of natural gas and offer themselves as a power-sink to the grid

[@Oktokolo]

If you got a swimming pool full of water, you already have a huge thermal battery. Heat it slightly warmer when energy is cheap.

[@dragoscoco2173]

Considering they do not hold energy for more than "days" it is kind of wasteful for a small size house energy storage.

[@backacheache]

@@Oktokolo true, I was thinking that battery could help them activate that whilst keeping a steady pool temperature

[@martinriley106]

Just supersized storage heaters! Old tech upgraded!

[@human_isomer]

a lot of effort to build a giant barbecue grill. I want to see how they reliably guarantee that no air can enter the "battery" over a life span of 30 years. At these temperatures, they would need argon as an inert gas to prevent the graphite from igniting. If air will enter those red-hot "batteries", they will just go up in smoke (or CO2, that is, besides probably some not-so-healthy nitrogen compounds). Hence they also will need a completely IR-transparent but very durable "window" to harvest the heat. Mixed materials, mixed thermal expansion coefficients, frequent heating cycles over a wide range... that's what makes mountains crumble and housings rupture. I don't say it's impossible, but it's surely not as cheap as announced.

[@tintin_999]

Yeah, what seems easier is burning natural gas to heat air in a turbine and produce electricity (unfortunately). I think the clean tech dark horse to watch out for is a lead cooled nuclear reactor moderated with Yttrium Hydride. Perhaps with a supercritical CO2 turbine to produce electricity.

[@JasperNLxD]

How do you put energy in the block? Around 2000°C you cannot really use electrical wires, right?

[@markotrieste]

Tungsten filaments in bulbs went up to 3000K.

[@JasperNLxD]

@@markotrieste but it is also conductive, so must all cables leading in and from the battery be tungsten? 🤔

[@markotrieste]

@@JasperNLxD Outside the container you increase the gauge of the wire to reduce heat generation to a minimum. Same as with light bulbs.

[@JasperNLxD]

@@markotrieste nifty! Makes sense 😎

[@realtimestatic]

Makes sense for heat applications but 40% efficiency is a big loss if the main use is to use it as storage

[@shdwbnndbyyt]

Now what would be the cost of a 100 kWH version for home use? I have lots of solar power for weeks at a time...but my main cost is storage for the cloudy weeks.

[@matejpavelka4153]

Coal power plants turning into Coal batteries

[@sanerix]

How is that different to coil burning plant? How often do they need to replace the carbon cubes?

[@Simqer]

The round trip efficiency was mentioned to be 30-40%, which for me is not very worth it. Even if the renewable energy LCOE is low ($0.04-$0.05 per kwh), with that efficiency you would need to sell it at $0.15 per kwh just to break even. If they could raise it to 50-60% round trip efficiency, then we can talk. Because even with Lithium based batteries, the round trip efficiency is between 80 and 90%. With 50-60% efficiency and the low cost of storage, the overall LCOE would be less than $0.10 per kwh, which is about the same as fossil fuel and nuclear LCOE. And they would still be able to make money at $0.15 per kwh.

[@Paul-vd5em]

The video addressed this, I believe. The thermal battery would be charged with waste solar or wind generated during high supply/low demand periods.

[@drillerdev4624]

If it ends up being used "just" to provide high heat for industrial processes (while removing the need from fossil fuels) that's already a big wiin, anyway.

[@RandomGuy-nm6bm]

and the purpose is not electricity but industry heat

[@Simqer]

@@RandomGuy-nm6bm well, the first 2 still apply. Conversion loss and heat loss during storage and there is also heat loss during transfer. It will still make it only 40% efficient. Although I will say that that matters less when they use the heat for things like steel manufacturing, considering they were going to use electricity for heat anyways. But it still is not ideal. Using electricity for heating steel is quite inefficient and this doesn't change it. This just adds another step in-between with extra loss but with slightly cheaper electricity. Which I suppose evens it out a little.

[@Dorothyinstead]

Concise, succinct, and clear enunciation conveying an interesting concept. This has excited my mind and curiosity. Well done.

[@6Sparx9]

13:00 this is why the periscope vertical solar panel stack idea I've been playing with may be able to help resolve that issue, by reflecting unused solar radiation down a chute of angled PV panels.

[@PelicanNorth]

A suggestion for a script edit: at 1:07 you say "...many magical properties..." I know it's just a figure of speech, but you are a science oriented channel. Maybe leave magic for other types of thinkers. Great video, though.

[@thekinginyellow1744]

Science is magic! Just because we understand (almost) exactly how it works doesn't make it any less magic!

[@walterrutherford8321]

What are the mirrors made out of so they don’t melt if you’re dealing with temperatures hot enough to melt steel?

[@AltMarc]

They are cooled because the "solar" cells/electric interconnections.., also won't resist these temperatures.

[@tomduke1297]

good thermal storage, but practically useless as energy storage. got it.

[@vineetcv261]

Efficiency doesn't matter as long as it is economically sustainable, ultimately money matters,so it may work

[@toddmarshall7573]

Industries in the business of creating generators, motors, or motor applications typically use thermo-piles (carbon blocks shorting out the electrical output... and huge fan driven heat exchangers to ambient air) to "waste" the energy (i.e. load their systems being tested).

[@jesusistheopendoor]

you could have made this video 5 minutes if you didn't repeat things

[@FamilyManToo]

I agree, but the repeat was varied and endurable. I liked the video--a lot--overall. Thank for the video. Itis great. Keep up the good work. :-)

[@callyral]

5 minutes would mean less video to watch

[@Music_vibes-kw7xr]

No way in 5 minutes. This is a very detailed and complete video. Very well done

[@wildernessfarming7726]

u cud av mad ths cmnt shrtr

[@Tryp-j9d]

Come again?

[@davidmartin3947]

Article suggestion: Energy Dome CO2 energy storage. The first full scale dome is under construction right now, and they reckon they can hit 75-80% RTE to in a 20MW/200MWH configuration, IOW solving overnight solar storage, which is 'good enough' for most of the world's population which are reasonably close to the equator, and darn handy for the rest of us.

[@jchoneandonly]

Ok this is interesting, but why not just use nuclear power instead?

[@smartazz61]

Absolutely. "Climate change." How many people have to die of starvation or freezing to death before we stop our governments from spending our tax dollars on this scam.

[@jdlutz1965]

The economics of nuclear don't make sense when you can take virtually free energy from excess renewable energy and "store" it in heat form for industrial uses, far cheaper than even natural gas.

[@davidjonsson469]

By the time we have enough nuclear up and running we are already screwed (including modular)

[@tommybaier784]

Hello! I discovered your channel a while ago, and I think it’s fantastic. I really appreciate how you analyze different ideas, essentially checking them for physical or chemical feasibility. That inspired me to share one of my own ideas with you, to see if you think it’s feasible. Some time ago, I gifted Saudi Arabia an idea for creating a hydrogen cycle. Here’s a rough breakdown of the concept: First, the brine left over from reverse osmosis is used to generate energy in an osmotic power plant. That energy, in turn, is used to produce hydrogen. As a third step, the brine could be utilized to extract rare earth elements. Finally, the remaining salt could be used for chemical or food processing. I'm really looking forward to hearing your thoughts on this! By the way, I just wanted to add that your channel is great, with incredibly interesting topics. Although I only discovered it a month or two ago, I have to say it’s full of fascinating content. Keep up the excellent work!

[@pappaflammyboi5799]

References, sources, links?!?! C'mon...

[@forgotten6411]

Is it really so difficult to type in google "Antora"? Really?

[@kevinb1594]

Aerogels have a heat resistance of up to 3000 and are excellent insulators. I wonder if they could be used to make these more efficient?

[@nervousfrog101]

Hi, sounds like a really neat technology. Great video the only thing I would query is where you got a lifespan of 4-6 years for Lithium Ion storage? Most consumer batteries come with a 10 year warranty to be at 80% capacity same as EV's. There is no way they are going to give a 10 year warranty on something that will only last 4 years. I suspect the two technologies would complement each other rather than replacing either.

[@mskiptr]

I have one major question: Why resistive heating and not a heat pump? I mean, you can easily pump four times the energy input this way, so what is it that I'm missing here? Also, instead of using a mirror, couldn't you put the photovoltaic panel _between_ two chunks of graphite?

[@mskiptr]

My guess is these components cannot handle 2000°C. Amirite? Also, a heat pump needs heat around it to work. You could use sunlight and a bunch of mirrors, but that definitely complicates this quite a bit.

[@frank4425]

Why not use heat pumps instead of resistive heating?

[@FrankensteinDIYkayak]

i used to know someone at union carbide and he told me of a proposal for them to make graphite blocks which would be heated up and power a car for 1/2 hour. I wonder what the numbers were and why if didn't work out. I remember hearing about the closure of union carbines graphite block/anode plant in anmore WV. I knew eventually graphite would be used for energy storage. I guess people look for far more cheaper quicker returns on their money. that plant was built righ like oldschool

[@ruttyj92]

i don't suppose there is a heat pump like fluid that would work at those temps? might be able to optimize the resistive heating part...

[@valerieewing3306]

Great explanations spoken with wisdom and clear understanding, making this video very rewarding and educational. Thankyou for your time.

[@GregOughton]

Its possible I missed this in the video, but couldn't these be used to convert existing conventional thermal power plants (burning coal or natural gas) in cheap batteries for peak loads? Install these big carbon blocks where the furnaces exist now and charge them up on surplus power then discharge when theres demand. And those sites are already connected to the grid in just such a way to help load balance the grid.

[@ronnyb5890]

hmmm that reflection idea is very interesting, what if you mounted a mirror at the back of the PV and a one way mirror in front of the PV then the sun would deliver its light to the PV as it is allowing to pass thru at the front, but can never escape back into the air because of the mirror and one way mirror (loop), feasable? i got the idea from the old ruby lasers, wich has such a one way mirror to bounce the light continuesly making it more powerful

[@peterbeer8657]

Would it be possible to bundle light with mirrors and inject that hot beam straight into this battery? It's being done in other setups, but can it be done here? Because if that is the case, energy collection becomes massively more efficient, the efficiency of PV solar panel still lacks plenty. Just imagine charging the battery basically straight from the sun.

[@ronyerke9250]

What's involved in making the carbon blocks? Can atmospheric carbon be utilized?

[@qh5163]

I missed how much kwh of heat a cube with 1mx1mx1m can store and how long?

[@13thbiosphere]

Yeah the presentation was pretty lacking in technical details,. I want to know how much electricity has been produced and what price? How fast is it ramping up, is it going to be exponential growth rate??

[@lucbloom]

I think it might still be unimpressive and they’re working on that. The project is inspired by the properties that are already promising, and they try to improve the yield/capacity/safety/modularity.

[@jankoodziej877]

Because it's technological pop video, monetising people's need to hear about ever new magical technologies. There are so many of these on KZbin, it's incredible.

[@xxwookey]

What is the resistive element made out of? Tungsten? How is it mounted? Interesting idea. I wonder what the LCOE for this actually works out at (or more significantly, would with a bit of volume)

[@houselightkell]

How much energy (in joules) can you store (per centimeter cubed) in graphite?

[@sasomeden4270]

If I calculated right it is 4,82 MJ per cm cubed if heated for 3000 degrees C.

[@jamesobrien4087]

Impressed, but my big question is the durability of the carbon blocks in use in their "charging" and "discharging" cycles. Is the 30 year claim valid ? Would it be useful for district heating?

[@remus-alexandrusimion3439]

You mentioned reflecting back "at the sun" is not a great idea but how about dual layer behind PV? a storage medium and a reflective medium behind? Basically any low-energy photon that passes through the semiconductor can get absorbed and given a chance to reemit at a higher energy after, but only emission towards PV matters because any other direction is reflected back. Or would something like that cost more than the yield increase is worth?

[@toddmarshall7573]

16:00 I wonder if they would be useful in the cement making industry. There they are "burning" waste tires to generate heat for their process. As with most "fired" processes, the heat generation and the heat loads must be in sync. That's probably not the case in the cement industry unless they run all processes 24/7.

[@jeanladoire4141]

VERY few materials can insulate 2000C. I'm curious about how much heat is lost, and how expensive/polluting/durable the insulation for 2000C will be

[@michiel1362]

What are the figures? How much do you put in and how much electricity comes out for instance?

[@pathfollower]

Lipo4 grid storage batteries have 4-6 year life span? Please state where you got that figure!

[@zettaiengineer4202]

Thermal battery heat could be used to enhance the expansion stage of a compressed gas battery system (eg. Energy Dome). In the preheat stage before expansion, additional heat from the heat battery (eg. Antora) increases energy input to the turbogenerator for higher power output. Energy is stored as compressed gas, recovered heat of compression, and thermal battery heat. Advantages include 1. a (resistively heated)thermal battery can absorb energy spikes that a mechanical compressor cannot 2. thermal battery heat can increase turbogenerator output on demand 3. thermal battery heat can "make up" for reduced gas pressure and lost reheat energy as a compressed gas battery system discharges. 4. colocated battery systems utilize the same grid connection. Therefore resistively heated thermal batteries are complementary to compressed gas energy storage and with the variability(intermittent wind/sun) of renewable energy production.

[@plewis4105]

Instead of resistive heating, could a heat pump be used to increase efficiency? Perhaps for part of the heating process if not all?

[@kevinddawson127]

What are they using for the heating element?? I thought you were implying that the graphite is used as the heating element

[@plinble]

Direct heating from the thermal radiation needs more work on lenses and piping the energy?

[@parsarnblad1107]

Can I use OnShape offline? Can I save the files in a standard format locally?

[@R1987R]

Could this be used to store energy for neighborhoods? In The Netherlands we have for instance exces heat from factories being used to heat the homes of neighboring houses. If this could be used for that aswell then you can utilise the high efficincy of heat capacity over the lowe elctricity one.

[@barnowl6807]

How about the insulation for one of these? About the only thing that I know of that works at this temperature range is the ceramic fiber family. These are not inexpensive. Also, is there a vacuum gap required like in a thermos bottle to stop conduction to the housing? And, what kind of heating element has a useable lifetime at these temperatures?

[@johnkubik8559]

Can you give some more explanation on those TPV panels if they absorbs 40% of a 2000C source, we still have a 1200C heat source behind them which can be used to power a steam turbine.bringing total efficiency to around 60%. tt would work as well for natural gas power plants where the flame is burning at 1980C but they completely ignore the TPV which would greatly reduce the energy cost.

[@1Neckrus1]

he says this lost heat will reflect off the mirrors and back onto the panels. But shouldn't such solar panels only emit radiation that they are unable to convert into electricity? Otherwise, they would not emit thermal radiation at all and 99% of their heat would be converted into electricity (neighboring molecules glow on each other).

[@DerMacko]

@@1Neckrus1 the reflected low energy photons are going through the panels (again) and back into the carbon blocks and hopefully re-absorbed there, releasing their energy back to the blocks and heating them a tiny bit. This in turn means that the blocks can keep emitting higher energy photons for longer as they don't cool down quite as quickly.

[@1Neckrus1]

@@DerMacko a block heated more strongly by low-energy photons will produce more warm radiation at a time, but this will not make the system work longer. The mirrors will not heat the block at the end of operation to temperatures higher than the solar panels can process, this violates entropy. This heat accumulator will work until the temperature inside the system reaches certain degrees at which only those photons will be released that cannot be used by solar panels, then there will be cooling to the external environment. Mirrors are needed only for thermal insulation: increasing efficiency and lowering loses, but not increasing the amount of total possible energy production. It’s like with Stirling engines, everyone is chasing an increase in their efficiency when they themselves are weak, and we need to work specifically on increasing their possible work output.

[@DerMacko]

@@1Neckrus1 have you ever seen an old school glass thermos? The ones where the glass bottle has a mirror finish on the vacuum gap side? Same principle. Reflect back radiative heat, keep it hotter for longer. The longer the block can maintain temperature where it is emitting usable photons, the longer the panels can output electricity. Preventing those low energy photons from escaping the system prolongs this time. Thus increasing the overall efficiency. It does not increase the effiency of the panels per say, but the net extractable energy of the system. Ideally you'd want to reflect back every photon with too low energy that isn't enough to trigger the band cap transition, but also photons with too much excess energy beyond that since that excess is also wasted as heat in the panels after the electron/hole pair is formed.

[@1Neckrus1]

@@DerMacko This is exactly what I wrote, mirrors will not increase the maximum energy output, they will only reduce losses, preventing heat from dissipating into the environment. The maximum energy output is limited only by the capabilities of the solar panels; mirrors will not increase the efficiency of the panels. Reducing losses does not mean increasing the maximum potential output.

[@ZebbMassiv]

When I was a glassblower, I accidentally ruined my graphite mold by placing it in a kiln. It became porous after glowing red for a while. The heat was at 1050C

[@dragoscoco2173]

Depends on how much air got in to burn the poor thing. This will be a major issue in this type of energy storage too.

[@kroee]

How do you prevent a 2000C orange-hot block of carbon from igniting?

[@TheKlink]

how does infrared-voltaic works so long as the material gives off the "glow" what happens at lower temps? would Stirling engines work?

[@stephenpahl7538]

Where does the raw material(Pure Carbon) come from? Is it mined, an industrial byproduct/Coal or can it be from CO2 cracking,. You didn't say

[@DoogleGebunkers]

How does one get started on helping with the clean energy movement? I have ideas, but lack funding for materials to prototype or design projects.

[@shmonov]

Actually, what energy source is used to heat up the graphite blocks?

[@agw5425]

Can you not capture the heat directly via heliostats and get more out of the system or is the cost to output not worth the extra heat/power collected? Just like you could burn wood with a magnifying glas, high temp can be achieved with simple light concentration. Is there no gain in the more efficient "direct" route?

[@ccibinel]

We have tons of existing industrial facilities that dont have a ton of space and cant be offline to install an experimental technology, the beauty of this is it is small and can plug into existing industrial equipment comparatively easily. If designing from the ground up your right solutions exist but these heavy industrial facilities are often pushing 100 years old with no reason to replace them.

[@agw5425]

@@ccibinel Yes for them it may be so, but we need more production built, would not those benefit from direct heating?

[@rogersoutdoorchannel2313]

Does anyone know what the target atmospheric CO2 concentration goal is for "net-zero" initiatives? Also, how does that goal compare to the optimal atmospheric CO2 concentration to support photosynthesis? I noticed CO2 generators at a greenhouse i visited recently which is why I ask...

[@theairstig9164]

The generators are not uncommon. Under 280 ppm CO2 is accepted as the pre industrial level. 1000 ppm is 0.1% CO2. Also think about fluoro carbons methane ammonia and even water itself. The whole point about the greenhouse effect is that anything that heats up the surface of the earth makes water evaporate which further heats up the earth until we get a runaway condition. This seems to have happened on Venus. In the case of Venus, the water was then stripped away by solar wind

[@Jcewazhere]

For solar panels instead of reflecting the unabsorbed light out into space you could angle the mirror to bounce the light into some ultra-black painted solar water heater, or a heat block, or something akin to those to make use of the energy that'd otherwise be wasted. Just putting the water lines or whatever underneath the panels would be good, but with mirrors you could concentrate that heat.

[@TanisHalfE1ven]

Water lines attached to the bottom of solar panels are a thing. They get used to heat water that can then be used for things like heating a pool. And come with the additional benefit of increasing the efficiency of the solar panel meaning more electricity.

[@pratikdagu]

Future is bright,we just have to survive till then!🙌🏼

[@denotwos]

Whats the energy efficiency if used to generate electricity with conventional steam to turbine? Is it near %40?

[@dodgygoose3054]

This sounds like the perfect battery system for Australia, in suburbs due to amount of roof top solar then these thermal batteries can release energy when needed.

[@dmnkln]

I wonder whether, with such high temp levels, a thermodynamical electricity generation would not be more advantageous from an efficiency point of view. The Carnot efficiency of a 1500°C heat source is ~~ 0.75, the real efficiency o c being a lot lower.

[@puririmoth]

15:44 4-6 years lifespan for lithium ion grid scale batteries sounds like the lead-acid lifespan rather than lithium ion. Anybody running them know?

[@YuriyKlyuch]

Interesting. Is where any numbers for actual characteristics? Capacity, watts...

[@DavidPaulNewtonScott]

The thing that interests me is could we use it to drive a car or motorbike? Just use a simple heat engine like a flame gulper gulping heated air. So, what is the energy density.

[@arnspyarchi6040]

Theoretically it could, but that would be extremely inefficient. There is a race for light weight and energy dense batteries in vehicles, and so far lithium provides the best batteries for that. The carbon batteries in this video have the main advantage to be cheap for large scale industries, so different tool for different use

[@DavidPaulNewtonScott]

@arnspyarchi6040 Yes, but my shopping centre is 2.5 kilometres away. In Portugal, fuel is expensive, but I basically have unlimited solar power, so the efficiency doesn't matter much. My best prospect seems to be feolite.

[@arnspyarchi6040]

@@DavidPaulNewtonScott for 2.5 km it is very feasible to only use an ebike +trailer, or even just a regular bike But yeah it would be a funny to try to do it with steam engine

[@DavidPaulNewtonScott]

@arnspyarchi6040 I want a car to carry a wife and two kids. In Portugal, although the climate is mild, it can rain a lot in the winter. I don't like steam as a friend of mine pointed out you are creating a mobile bomb on wheels. We have unlimited wood waste from forestry. One could charge the heat store by burning wood. I think I have got this figured out. I will post a video on my channel when I try it. At the moment, though, if you look, you will see I am rather preoccupied at the moment, to say the least.

[@hg2.]

Decarbonization is 21st century cathedral/pyramid building. It is orchestrated human sacrifice for a superstition. AGW is a superstitious bunk.

[@karlstruhs3530]

Why not use sterling engines? They are a heat engine that uses or can use heat to run the engine (as little as the differential from your hand to room temp. The Stirling engine is @ 75% recovery of heat btu's to electrical energy. and is there one for home use yet?

[@trikepilot101]

I see the advantages for industrial processes, but if you talk about grid storage you need to compare it to pumped hydro. I can't find a LCO for pumped hydro right now. Also, is a carbon battery more efficient than an electric arc furnace or an electric arc furnace plus pumped hydro storage? Granted pumped hydro takes up a lot more space and is harder to site than storage containers.

[@ccibinel]

Every pumped hydro installation is different and to be remotely viable requires some very specific geographic conditions. I doubt many untapped locations for pumped hydro exist.

[@ClaraCl2005]

would it be possible that for solar pv panels, instead of reflecting the low energy photons, could you instead capture them as heat and further add to the heat in the batteries? Either using some kind of heat pump or heating water to turn a turbine to get more electricity.

[@MyFluffyClouds]

Could this heat battery be used to produce steam for a steam locomotive. Green steam locomotives would be awesome.

[@DerMacko]

so instead of a tender full of coal, you'd have a tender full of glowing hot carbon. :DD

[@ionut-silviustoica6673]

How exactly they extract the heat from these batteries? It is not very clear to me.

[@TanisHalfE1ven]

Open up the side of the cube and point the light at something to heat up. Look at a toaster oven. Those tubes that get red hot are emitting infrared radiation. Infrared is outside of the visible light spectrum, so the tube does not even need to be red for you to feel the heat and the light you see are those lower energy photons that they where talking about in the video.

[@vmoutsop]

So it’s cheaper than li-ion and other renewables but how does the cost compare to to conventional methods?

[@clovernacknime6984]

Question: efficiency means - by definition - the percentage of energy supplied that's converted to useful work, the rest being converted to heat. How is it possible, then, for resistive heating to be only 99% efficient? Where does the 1% of energy that's _not_ converted to heat go?

[@benjamindees]

Heat loss in the connecting wires

[@paulwatson6013]

What I do know is that carbon has a really high melting point compared to other elements. Maybe could be used to make clinker used for cement manufacturing. From memory aluminium smeltering uses carbon as electrodes, so perhaps potential there? Less chance of fire than li ion. Already had 2 battery fires here in OZ in grid storage setups.

[@djfmitv]

How did they get the panel efficiency to 40% when all solar panels produced so far operate (on similar photon wavelengths) can't even penetrate past around 20% efficiency and a further loss of efficiency in high temperatures?

[@arnspyarchi6040]

Answer in the video from 11:31 to 12:49