Why System76 Left Ubuntu Linux Behind

Back before PopOS was a thing System76 instead shipped devices with Ubuntu Linux installed so I wanted to know what Ubuntu wasn't doing for them.
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#System76 #Linux #Popos #LinuxDesktop #OpenSource #FOSS
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[@45545videos]

I'm a huge fan of Pop!_OS, can't wait to see what's in store for the Cosmic DE

[@arubaga]

Would love another interview when Cosmic DE gets released.

[@TechOverTea]

I'm sure that can be arranged

[@joechristo2]

if

[@Batwam0]

With the lead Cosmic developer? I believe that his name is Jeremy

[@TechOverTea]

I've had Jeremy on before so I can probably make it happen

[@Batwam0]

@@TechOverTea nice!

[@gnatinator]

RIP Ubuntu phone, would have been an industry gamechanger.

[@fuseteam]

Ubuntu Touch still exists fwiw, it still has the same adoption issue canonical faced tho

[@tacokoneko]

the major problem for these projects is that Android literally is the most popular linux mobile distro whether people like to believe it or not. saying that it doesn't do what desktop linux does doesn't work anymore because Termux and Termux-X11 prove that unrooted proprietary Android CAN run desktop linux CLI and GUI software

[@tacokoneko]

contrary to popular belief termux is NOT a sandbox, it is a custom installation folder that comes with a perfect implementation of Bash for Android preinstalled, the direct equivalent to the Windows concept of installing an app in the Documents folder because you don't have permission for the C:\Program Files folder. therefore all CLI software runs at full speed and compatibility. GUI software is a lot more janky but it absolutely does work and absolutely can be connected to the GPU through some incomplete layers

[@blankeyezero]

What adoption issue @fuseteam

[@littlepeon]

It still has community support. Not a gamechanger! Linux on small memory phones is a pain. It is one thing when ur Desktop locks up from lack of RAM, but totally sucks when your phone does! It ceases to do basic phone things--like calls and notifications.

[@merthyr1831]

Totally gonna install Pop! again when it's stable with cosmic 1.0. Im a KDE guy but Cosmic is really exciting and Im looking forward to a true "Wayland first" desktop experience

[@hereticerik]

Honestly, pop os has been my favorite the past 2 years. It's stable, powerful, beautiful, everything always works perfectly, and I use it for unreal 5 development with no issues. It won me over so much that I've converted other linux users and I plan on getting a laptop from them in the future.

[@lx2222x]

Cosmic desktop was a big downgrade when it released

[@cejannuzi]

Based on Ubuntu. Horrible repos and mirrors.

[@Batwam0]

I don’t get the title. How did PopOS “leave Ubuntu behind”. Isn’t popOS just Ubuntu with some Gnome extensions? in the future, it will be Ubuntu with Cosmic instead of Gnome so, still some sort of Ubuntu flavour? I don’t see how this is them leaving Ubuntu unless they are planning to base it on Debian going forward?

[@PragandSens]

hopefully they'll base it of Arch Linux

[@TechOverTea]

PopOS is a fork of Ubuntu yes

[@bigpod]

its still an ubuntu just with a bit of fancy

[@Batwam0]

@@bigpod exactly, that’s my point. It’s essentially an Ubuntu flavour at this point with an Ubuntu base and an alternative DE. I don’t see how “System76 left Ubuntu behind”. They are still very much dependent on Ubuntu and follow their release cycle.

[@bigpod]

@@Batwam0 dont they still use ubuntu repos for majority of software, or did they switch

[@JT-mr3db]

Love PoP, had a terrible experience with System76 laptop though. It's my own fault, they state clearly that you don't get warranty when you buy it from AUS. Expensive lesson.

[@lucasjames8281]

Uhmm Aus consumer law would almost dictate that you have at least a a year of warranty

[@JT-mr3db]

@@lucasjames8281 you would think that wouldn’t you? It was cheaper to replace the gpu myself than send it back. Shipping there and back not covered sadly. Get an oryx pro they said…

[@peterschmidt9942]

@@lucasjames8281 I think there's a bit of grey area when purchasing/importing yourself from overseas.

[@lucasjames8281]

@@peterschmidt9942I’m no expert, but OP should investigate

[@Freshbott2]

Take it to your payment vendor. I did that with Eve to get my money back. If System76 doesn’t support warranty globally then they’re a failed brand and it goes against who they claim to stand for. Buy a Dell, Apple, ASUS etc. from wherever you want, they don’t care where you are they’ll service you.

[@creativecraving]

I never knew System76 before they switched to Pop! OS, so for me the title was super misleading. I thought it meant their distro would be based on Arch or something, and I'm like, how does _that_ work for their business model!

[@Daktyl198]

Unity was one of my favorite desktop environments. I wish Ubuntu never dropped it. I’m looking forward to COSMIC since it seems to hit a lot of things I want!

[@ivandfx]

Ubuntu Unity exists, and it's an official flavour

[@Daktyl198]

​@@ivandfxYes, but it's maintained by a single teenager (or at least he was a teenager when he picked it up). Before that it had 0 development, and even after he picked it up it's seen very little development. I had hope for a while, but it's just not there anymore.

[@williamevans6830]

Honestly. This is what Canonical should really take note of. For System76 if they can create a smoot experience with the cosmic desktop they are in a prime position to rapidly over take Ubuntu. Simply because they have a rich history in how linux and custom hardware actually works. I know Canonical has their own way of checking hardware but theres nothing like owning a company that makes hardware specifically for the desktop experience on linux. I'm also extremely impressed with Tuxedo Pureism and Slimbook laptops excellent build quality and a wonderful OS experience. This is what we need hardware vendors that understand Linux to its core at every step. Yes you can dump Linux on any hardware these days and it is likely to mostly work. However I urge anyone who wants a first class experience to support these companies.

[@cameronbosch1213]

The problem is that the hardware of Linux first OEMs is often much worse than comparable Windows alternatives and is more expensive!

[@williamevans6830]

@@cameronbosch1213 Can you validate that?. For example I can show easily customers from PopOS website that show rave hardware reviews?. System 76 users are happy to see hardware just work. They also have warranties so you can ship back a faulty product. Same can be said for Tuxedo Laptops from Germany they produce excellent products all under warrantee to name a few. I'd also argue these companies have a lot more to lose than say companies like Asus Dell or Lenovo. These are much larger companies they can afford to product garbage hardware and take the finacial hit. I agree the price of purchasing Linux Hardware can be more expensive if you want latest and greatest. However most people who shop for Linux hardware mostly purchase an under powered / or second hand Linux hardware which is also an option. Dual Boot is also very very common for Linux users with Windows. There are many guides which show how to do this from the above companies.

[@champfisk5613]

Pop OS is still based on Ubuntu, right? Just a different DE coming

[@saidjonrko]

I use popos, but I've heard many from ubunti side. Ubuntu claimed pop team has no contribution to the ubuntu's repo. for example he says partitioning. why didn't help the main repo? so that it becomes stable.

[@Jacob6853]

I'm such a huge fan of Pop_Os that I bought a System76 Oryx Pro (Oryx10) last year. One beast of a laptop.

[@fuseteam]

I wonder if carl knows unity8 is still alive as lomiri and developed by the ubports community

[@xperience-evolution]

Ubuntu made it possible for me to use Linux around 14 years ago. Great Distro - one of the best I would say but these days I want the vanilla Gnome experience and run openSuse Tumblweed after many many other Distros.

[@RobertJohnson-lb3qz]

Just curious, as a rookie I know at some point I will gravitate to a distro other than Ubuntu but I don’t know a whole lot about openSuse. What convinced you to switch to that distro?

[@xperience-evolution]

@@RobertJohnson-lb3qz It has one of the largest repositories (Apps available directly from openSUSE). It is bleeding edge but more stable than most other Distros. Easy rollbacks if you installed something and don't know how to get rid of or it introduced a bug you can rollback within 2 Minutes. Just like Ubuntu a big Company is behind it. They deliver a stock Gnome experience. And no other Distro gets new Gnome Versions that fast (just a few days after the official Gnome release) They offer x86-64- V3 packages for people with newer Hardware. You will always have the latest Kernel. Simply said they offer the best of pretty much everything. You get it all in one Package. And one of the best installers to make everything as you want it from the beginning.

[@hotrodjones74]

Pop!_OS is the distro I keep coming back to. Ironically I run it on a Tuxedo laptop. Hopefully Cosmic DE is a success and will be fully embraced by developers. Hopefully, it's not a massive deviation from the Gnome experience, just enough to make it a fresh "Gnome-like" experience.

[@williamkennedy8133]

I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess Launchpad has something to do with it

[@marcelogarcia5539]

I really like Pop OS artwork and many other features. It's so much better than Ubuntu. But I can't get used to the way the launcher works.

[@bertnijhof5413]

How many more users does the System 76 OS has than Ubuntu?

[@Rayyan-hi2ge]

Ubuntu has more because it's existed for longer

[@WolfiiDog13]

If I'm not mistaken, Ubuntu still has the most users on Linux

[@UberArchangel]

Ubuntu being a server distro has way more. You want to look at end users Ubuntu is still more but, I believe that may not last.

[@littlepeon]

PopOs is a subset of Ubuntu with about a tenth of the users.

[@Rayyan-hi2ge]

@@littlepeon Ubuntu is a subset of debian and ubuntu has more users.

[@Rustmilian]

Doesn't matter what DE Ubuntu uses, it's just not for me.

[@hopelessdecoy]

What distro do you use?

[@Rustmilian]

@@hopelessdecoy Arch Linux.

[@Sasha-rp5yx]

He uses arch btw 🤓☝️​@@hopelessdecoy

[@blankeyezero]

​@@Rustmilianah what a surprise

[@Rustmilian]

@@blankeyezero Still'd take most other distros over Ubuntu.

[@starsetknight]

I really like Pop!_OS, but I really don't like Gnome, so I'm super excited for Cosmic

[@hotrodjones74]

Pop!_OS runs a highly modified version of the Gnome DE, this fixing some of the suck in regular Gnome. Currently the desktop environment is quite stable and a little old, but the kernel is very up to date, as much as an LTS can be. It's butter smooth, better than Ubuntu or standard default Gnome.

[@starsetknight]

@@hotrodjones74 yea, I used Pop for a few months when I first got into Linux, even with their changes Gnome is still something I don't like. Honestly I installed KDE on Pop_OS and that was great, until I decided to go all out on Arch, and After a while I switched from KDE on Arch to Hyprland, and that's what I've been on for a while

[@act.13.41]

No matter how hard I try, I just can't Gnome. It leaves me feeling like I am missing out on features that Plasma let's me have. As long as your rebuilding of all those Gnome apps includes adding more features, I'm all for it. If not, then you might as well just stick to Gnome. I don't expect lots of new features, just steady work toward goals.

[@nurphurecarnium]

gnome really forces you to one specific workflow, because they believe it's the superior way.

[@G-3-A-R-Z]

I don't know. The system snaps are enough not to use Ubuntu. Specially since they vetted so poorly.

[@postnick]

I love PoP. I want to buy a s76 someday… but also fedora is life for me. Excited to someday go back to pop

[@geryz7549]

Nothing stopping you from buying a system 76 device and booting fedora on it

[@postnick]

@@geryz7549 Nope just money!

[@Little-bird-told-me]

Having used several Distros && DE, Debain && Cosmic OS is where I have settled. POPos with their full featured WM desktop is Sui generis. I hope they launch the new OS soon because current version of POPos is unusable. Until that time I am using Ubuntu sway remix

[@CocoMacaco]

To me System76's saying they have created their own Linux distribution is disingenuous. System76 doesn't have the resources to properly build and test all packages so they will forever be tied to Ubuntu (and Ubuntu in turn is tied to Debian for the same reason). Just what we need in Linux, one more distribution. Instead they should donate a bunch of money to Debian, the silent heroes behind so many Linux distros, and contribute their improvements back to Debian. And here is the part that is juicy: the extra security risk of adding one more company mingling with our Linux packages is never mentioned. System76's would be an easier target for a sophisticated actor to introduce a supply chain attack similar to what we saw recently saw with the Xz Utils Backdoor. Even if you use Ubuntu with a System76 Laptop instead of their Pop re-branding, when you add their System76's repos to APT to get their drivers, they some how end up replacing Ubuntu's kernel (why?, couldn't you just add a module?), they also replace a ton of critical libraries, and even Systemd itself... Why? Why?

[@agitation8097]

Why most of the linux nerds look like Amish?!

[@TechOverTea]

Having a beard is easier than not having a beard

[@NullHand]

Real Wizards have real beards. Fake wizards have fake beards (neckties). Sometimes fake wizards even have fake hair (wigs). You may know them as Barristers (Lawyers in Americanese).

[@bryanenglish7841]

Canonical is a trash company. They ask Staff-level engineers what their high school gpa is in interviews.

[@stacygirard647]

ppersonally i just get off ubuntu today ( i install linux on my server ( homelab) proxmox and i had a issues wiht the remote desktop i when tto their chat support (irc) and i got almost insulted to use ssh instead ect so i left wiht a sourt teast they dont have respect for their constumenr there then (even if its the comunity the other dont reastect loss used to the software anymore used to have a good help there but not anymore ill check pop os for sure

[@gnatinator]

Unity got really good. "maybe Canonical will fix Gnome" didn't happen. Gnome doesn't play nice with others- wouldn't even give Canonical their global menu. Everyone might end up on KDE.. we already got all of gnomes fancy workspace stuff ported to Plasma 6.

[@orlovskyconsultinggbr2849]

Interesting System76 hardware manufacturer which dont try to become next Apple.

[@n5ifi]

I like Ubuntu 20.04. I do not like Ubuntu 22.04. Been using 20.04 for years. No problems really. I'm going to give Pop a test drive on another drive.

[@ReaperX7]

When Ubuntu started forcing many packages into flatpaks rather than the standard deb packages, I lost interest also. Flatpaks have no support in many situations and often are broken.

[@cameronbosch1213]

You mean snaps.

[@fanis4093]

I hope pop!os change the base from ubuntu to fedora

[@TechOverTea]

Why's that?

[@fanis4093]

There are a lot of reason to not like ubuntu. One of them is they keep pushing snaps. How safe it is to be based on such a distro? Fedora seems to me a better suit for popos for the update philosophy. Personally I would hope popos go with fedora and do that very successfully, LMDE be really successful, manjaro regain the trust and ubuntu and all ubuntu-based to be a lot less popular. Ubuntu does not deserve at all their "popularity" and the (false) believe that it is easier. @@TechOverTea

[@christoskokkolis5110]

Possibly because fedora use btrfs?…

[@user-28qhfk65]

I use PopOS! btw

[@FOSSuser]

If unity was the 2005-2008 ubuntu desktop then I liked the unity and think that is why pop has a good interface. I loaded it on my mbp 2012, upgraded to ssd and 16GB of memory, and had it on my desktop but wanted something different on my desktop. Got me started on not liking ubuntu after unity is gone and snaps which might have been pre unity split indplemented for all I know from the begining of ubuntu using snaps

[@andril]

Cosmic screen freeze killed me

[@Will-sc3hw]

Pop_os is just ubuntu with a few mods. Hardly a real distro

[@TechOverTea]

Wait till you found out what Ubuntu is

[@nurphurecarnium]

ubuntu is just debian with a few mods. hardly a real distro

[@SoulExpension]

snap = suck. The quicker Ubuntu stops pushing it, the better response they will get from people.

[@vincei4252]

Being asked to pay $500 to get patches to VLC and FFMPEG takes some balls. Won't be using ubuntu going forwards.

[@that_leaflet]

And you won't be paying $500 or however much unless you're an enterprise. Enterprises pay for pro, which funds Canonical's security team to create patches for packages in the universe repo. Then Canonical offers regular users those patches for free (on up to 5 machines). And if you decided to switch to Debian, you would just be using those same packages but without the security fixes until someone in the Debian community patches that package, if they do so at all.

[@muhdiversity7409]

@@that_leaflet Nice FUD you got going there, mate. How much do you get paid for that ?

[@littlepeon]

Guess we found the MS shill! They can't help to out themselves with their lies.

[@bobotrutkatrujaca]

i refuse to use Pop!_OS becasue of the name.

[@StevoDesign]

sucks for you I guess.

[@jimw7916]

you need to wave your arms more!....it looks strange

[@l4kr]

Ubuntu is ass

[@tpasi2020UG]

Cosmic desktop development is a total waste of time and resources. This is why linux desktop will never ever dominate the computing world. Never! Great interview though.

[@greenbillugaming2781]

lol.

[@AutoNuggets]

I couldn't disagree more!

[@porterhouse937]

The coolest thing about popOS is that you can convert it from desktop to server install just by installing Steam

[@zeta_eclipse]

XD, it's not a bug, but rather a feature

[@Rayyan-hi2ge]

Ubuntu is the Windows 8 of the linux world

[@552jacki3]

Ooh, I mean I don't like Ubuntu but idk if they deserve to be compared to Win8.

[@jonescity]

That's a bit of an exaggeration ya' think? Not even close.

[@sesei2149]

more like the old ubuntu was windows 7 and the new modern ubuntu is now windows 8

[@theluga7363]

Yeah, it's more like vista. Not completely different just worser than before.

[@bertnijhof5413]

I moved to Ubuntu after buying a laptop with Vista. Since that time I stayed on Ubuntu, just like the majority of the Linux Users :) :).

[@bigpod]

System76 never really left ubuntu behind they just papered over it with well mediocre cover

[@IkarusKommt]

Why does any idiot thinks he can write a desktop environment? Because he has never been employed in a company which makes user interfaces. The very idea you can have a functional desktop environment in a system designed for universities in 1970s, where graphics and sound, keyboards and mice were hastily taped to with band-aid, is absurd.

[@littlepeon]

Guess you missed the whole point of the video, huh. PopOS has been rewriting Gnome to suit their needs since the start. Finally decided that as long as they were rewriting code, they might as well make that code do EXACTLY what they want and write it from scratch. They decided to implement Rust-code for security and to prevent buffer overruns.

[@IkarusKommt]

@@littlepeonAs I said, any idiot thinks he can write a better DE than Apple and Microsoft.

[@littlepeon]

@IkarusKommt it's not that hard to improve from what MS offers! While MS looks good, it is NOT know for being stable! BSOD and Kernel panics are what define the MS experience. I'll take Gnome/KDE/Enlightenment over that any day! YMMV.

[@thepathnotfound]

Trolling