Why the ARC-170 Failed

[@hunterkiller1440]

I used to think the ARC 170 was the best of both worlds. It's basically an X-wing with bombing capabilities and a gunner. Makes me think of a miniaturized Republic Gunship.

[@autismreal4]

what if tie but hyperdrive

[@mccabecompositions]

the Z95 headhunter meets the Y wing

[@captaincapitalis1205]

I think it would be much better in universe if the perfect multi role fighter didn’t already exist in the x wing.

[@MrChickennugget360]

personally i like to think of the ARC-170 and Y-wing to be similar star fighters but being targeted at different markets. ARC-170 is like the M1 Abrams while the Y-wing is like the Leopard 2 tank. Both have very similar capabilities and mission but the Abrams has better performance but much higher cost due to its turbine engine while the Leopard's standard Diesel is cheaper. Thus the Leopard is MUCH more common with more countries using them. ARC-170 was also exclusively used by the Republic while the Y-wing was in service with many worlds of the Galactic republic. Thus the Rebelion started out with lots of Y-wings from planetary militias who joined the Rebelion- while the only ARC-170s they had in service were once they salvaged from scrap yards of found as relics from the Clone wars. Of course everyone needs to remember that Fighter Sized Hyperdrives are new technology that was developed around the Clone wars since we see the Jedi using Hyperdrive Rings to travel long distances and we don't see true Hyper drives in service until Revenge of the Sith. my guess would be Hyperdrives were only present on custom built Star fighters that were too pricey for mass production and the ARC-170 was the First Generation of Hyperdrive Snub fighters to enter full service making it a trail blazer- but like many trail blazers they have lots of faults and technical issue to overcome. The Empire fighter line was dominated by Sienar Fleet Systems which was why the ARC-170 was retired from service gradually. the TIE ADVANCED and TIE DEFENDER were intended as replacements for the ARC-170 in Imperial service.

[@christophermills7693]

the 170 is the best of both worlds, it just doesn't do them well enough to warrant it's cost of a 3 man crew and an astromech droid.

[@nebcyt-notenoughbraincells419]

The ARC 170 wasn't as bad as its given credit. It just needs to be used properly

[@Mike5Brown]

Yeah it has the battle cruiser problem. Talking real world not sci-fi, battle cruiser were basically just cruisers with battleship sized weapons and anything it couldn’t kill it could run away from. However, Admirals saw it had enough firepower to be in the line of battle so they kept on putting it in the line where they got chewed up quickly.

[@CidVeldoril]

@@Mike5Brown Like the Alaskas, little ANGRY sisters of the Iowas..

[@benjaminbrockway5998]

@@CidVeldoril The Alaskas were...weird. Not quite battlecruisers in the British/German/Japanese sense, and not designated as such by the US.

[@CloneScavengerVulpin8389]

Agreed

[@CidVeldoril]

@@benjaminbrockway5998 Perhaps, but they were cool as heck. Sadly none are preserved, it would've been really cool to see one berthed next to an Iowa.

[@inkedseahear]

"A starfighter that can't dogfight, a reconnaissance craft that's too conspicuous to do reconnaissance... ...and a quasi-bomber that has more crew than a Y-wing, but has enough firepower to take out a capital ship"

[@mattt233]

Col Burton

[@Mourtzouphlos240]

Someone else has seen Pentagon Wars.

[@Groza_Dallocort]

@@Mourtzouphlos240 I was thinking the same

[@kaillentackett6172]

no, Col.Burton is from Command and Conquer Generals and Zero Hour, I am not trying to be rude, for all I know he is also from what you said.

[@MichaelCasanovaMusic]

“Maybe you should leave a couple of fellows behind! Put the ammo where the men go!” “Sir…..it is a troop….carrier.” “So? Make a couple extra trips, what’s the difference?”

[@Gravemindefiler]

I always though it would have been a better ship for the mandalorian with custom upgrades making it a ugly for the Mandalorian as it would fit his needs both for being a bounty hunter with holding prisoners, having the firepower to bring down other ships and armor and shields to take a punishment.

[@notthed0d791]

Damn that’s actually a hell of a lot better than the Naboo star fighter in terms of versatility, missed opportunity there, the amount of modifications you could do is insane, it could essentially be a completely different ship

[@romanpackham8471]

that was my first thought too, it would also help when dealing with heavily defended targets thanks to those massive guns

[@larslaufer301]

While I agree on the versitility part and good options for costumization, the question is how well do you get spare parts. If the ARC was allready very little produced during its hight, I have my doubts that getting parts for repairs later on might be even possible. Even when you switch out parts for something that is avaible during Mandos time, the performance might be hampered. Still I would have loved to see a Mando Version of the ARC. Also I think they would had to go in a bit different direction. The Naboo fighter was made faster. Something I don't see with the ARC. Here I would guess that it would become more armored, maybe switching one of the rear turrets for a grabbling hock or some other utility device or make the rear turret even bigger and loosing the torpedos. Attacking capital ships isn't something Bounty Hunters normaly do but giveing a clear signal to persuers that you don't appriciate them with a big rear gun...yah I could imagne that.

[@Gravemindefiler]

In regards to acquiring spare parts seeing as the ship was Encom parts were readily available either in main storage on coruscant or even on decommissioned venators cruisers. Plus given the era being 60 some years in the future it would make sense to upgrade the ship with parts from other Encom ships hence my comment on making it a Ugly with say adding X wing foils to replace the heat sink foils for added power both weapon and added maneuverability even in short bursts to compensate a upgraded dual engine gutted from say a y wing or such. Even the controls can be adjustable as the main flight pod could be wired for one pilot with the secondary pod being modified into a containment tube that could be jettisoned or extracted to make deliveries and bounty collection. Tbh the only reason I believe the naboo star fighter was chosen was because it was wider known with its nostalgia and given the nature of him transitioning from bounty hunter to mandalor him going fast from place to place was needed but impractical for him to make a living.

[@mordicon1707]

I completely agree. I always thought of the ARC 170 being a great choice for a Bounty Hunter as a super well rounded ship. So once the Razorcrest got destroyed in the Mandalorian I thought it would make perfect sense as an actual replacement/evolution with the hyperdrive, greatly improved dogfighting, and still some extra capacity. But when they dropped the Naboo Star Fighter I was like - what??? Dope ship but makes 0 sense for his uses. Like basically he can fit a small child (or Grogu) in the retrofitted astromech space but that’s it, so good luck bring a bounty in.. whereas an ARC 170 with some mods to improve its speed/handling (basically it’s only weakness excluding the need for an astromech) it would have been perfect and fit his aesthetic much better.

[@tkc1129]

I realized the other day thag whereas the OT is inspired by WWII aerial combat and fighters, it seems like the PT is based kind of on WWI. Whereas the X-Wing has 4 wings, the ARC-170 has 6 and that tail gunner; it is the Star Wars equivalent of a biplane. Actually, there WERE even triplanes in WWI, which the ARC can also be seen as.

[@MichaelCasanovaMusic]

The design influence for the ARC-170 is the P-61 Black Widow, which was also a heavy fighter

[@tkc1129]

@@MichaelCasanovaMusic I could see it.

[@jacobparslow8723]

I could think the ARC-170 would make for a great planetary defense ship. Either based on the ground or in an orbital station. It has the punch and armor to keep itself alive while making life hell for any attacker. Strip out the no longer needed sensors to lighten the load or replace them with more weapons but keep the weight the same. Then you have a pretty darn viable defense weapon.

[@22yhjjjj]

Head canon: The Republic had too many clones, and Palpatine thought the best ways to get rid of them faster was to shove 3 in a metal coffin instead of 1.

[@hyperiongm330]

@@night6724 To be blunt, the ARC-170s would've been shredded by the defensive guns or Vader's X1 and Black Squadron due to their sheer size and lack of the X-Wing's agility, and if you're taking them for defensive guns, why not use two-seat S3 model Y-Wings with their own defensive turrets rather than the one-seater A4s Gold Squadron used? To say nothing of the literal impossibility of actually making the shot without the force.

[@hyperiongm330]

@@night6724 Cool, the big fat heavy fighters with the 19m wingspan have even less room to maneuver than the X-Wings and Y-Wings then because they're nearly twice the width of an X-Wing. The trench is barely wide enough for two 11m wide X-Wings to fly side by side to act as living shields, ARCs could only fit single file, effectively nullifying any combined defensive fire without presenting a large vertical target for the defensive turbolasers. They'd be eaten alive with even more ease than the Y-Wings or X-Wings who were putting everything into shields and engines.

[@hyperiongm330]

@@night6724 So you're throwing out an opinion that means nothing. Good job losing the argument.

[@vanguard6498]

so brutal, I love it

[@vanguard6498]

@@night6724 bro, the thing wound not have even fit in the trench lol

[@wafflecoptergaming2673]

The ARC-170 is my all time favorite star fighter. I would have loved to see them used in the Rebel Alliance. I would also love to see a modified one used by a bounty hunter or something.

[@Clicint]

It might not have been especially practical, but man, was it cool as hell.

[@dragonblaster-vu8wz]

Honestly, I'd be tempted to slap ARC-170 engines on a Y-Wing. I imagine that the speed of the new ugly could get up to 1250 kilometers per hour

[@SolWake]

It's funny bringing readily comprehensible real-world units like km/h immediately breaks the suspension of disbelief and underscores how broken physics is in SW because 1250 km/h is ridiculously slow in space. For reference the ISS orbits earth at roughly 25,000 km/h

[@starsilverinfinity]

1250 kph? Star Wars space travel is usually measured in the esoteric Megalight/MGLT - are you refering to atmospheric speed?

[@dragonblaster-vu8wz]

@@starsilverinfinity yes. A bomber that flies as fast as an interceptor would be quite useful, in my opinion, on a ground base

[@SolWake]

@@starsilverinfinity Interesting! I don't remember MGLT from the books I've read, but googling it, it looks pretty standard. And then reading the unit conversion for MGLT is even more bonkers! 1 MGLT = 667 times the speed of light??? And this is supposed to be a measure of "sub-light" speed lolol

[@starsilverinfinity]

@@SolWake I wouldnt trust any conversions I dont think there are any official ones out there - but yeah, in space ships use MLGT and in atmosphere they use kph. This is interesting because ships with wildly different MLGT can often have close enough kph measurements due to the limits put in place by an atmosphere - anyways, slapping ARC engines on a Y-wings sounds fun, I wonder how it'd hold up long term tho lol

[@5tom586]

I still have to admit this is one of my favorite fighters alongside the V-Wing

[@robertwalker7454]

How would you change the Ship, to make it better?

[@EckhartsLadder]

I'd use the X-Wing

[@robertwalker7454]

@@EckhartsLadder Agreed.

[@Masa6x]

Remove the need for a gunner, commit to being 2 classes of fighter at once, best of both worlds. ATM it's trying to be 5 different ships at once with no compromise and ends up being mid af

[@US_of_A]

@@EckhartsLadder Didn't you say that the Arc could beat the Xwing?

[@willroberts3991]

Still my favorite Clone Wars era fighter

[@lukeskywalket2894]

It’s interesting to compare the ARC-170 to its real-world inspiration, the Northrop P-61 Black Widow. And it’s not just the visual design that was used for the inspiration. The P-61 was armed with 4 forward-facing 20mm cannons, which on their own were on the larger side of aircraft-mounted weapons of the time. It also used a radar mounted in the nose, and was the first US warplane to do so. Plus, the P-61 was designed as a night fighter, which can be compared to the hit-and-fade missions you mentioned.

[@VigilanteAgumon]

Plus, an additional four .50 caliber machine guns in a dorsal turret and wing hard points for bombs and rockets.

[@lightspeedvictory]

#askeck what warships, asides from dreadnoughts, did the Mon Cal have during the clone wars? Lore Versus video request: Resurgent vs. Starhawk Tie Striker vs. New Republic V-Wing World Devastator vs. Vong Worldship Tie Silencer vs. X-83 Twintail Tie Silencer vs. Tie Defender (legends version) Keldabe vs. ISD II MC90 vs. Nebula class star destroyer Nebula class vs. Pellaeon class Majestic class vs. Bothan Assault Cruiser FOTR’s Mandator II portrayal vs. Subjugator Praetor vs. Subjugator EAWX: TR’s Mediator portrayal vs. Resurgent Starhawk vs. Bulwark MK III

[@kevingriffith6011]

I think that the Arc170 truly shines as an escort fighter for larger ships, particularly things like supply convoys and transports. From a dogfighting perspective it's absolutely a formidable ship thanks to the rear gun and heavy shielding, but it's low speed makes it ineffective at pursuit, something you have to worry about less if your job is protecting a slow moving ship as it makes it's way through space. (That being said, being able to chase down enemies that you've driven back has significant value as it weakens potential follow-up attacks... assuming they're not luring you away to strike your charge while you're pursuing. ) Being able to go for long distances without need of resupply is another perk. Not every convoy will be able to bring support craft for their escorts, after all. Given that, I do think that the Arc170 can easily find itself a sitting duck, caught out by larger numbers of faster ships without the protection of it's own fleet. I'm sure the republic lost a great deal of pilots by simply being unable to effectively escape from superior numbers of vulture droids. As for the "Aggressive Reconnaissance" tag... I'd say that it's almost as poorly named as the Protoss "Scout". It is neither good at aggression nor reconnaissance. Leave the scouting to a ship that can actually run away, and the aggression to ships that can pursue their enemies effectively.

[@stoutyyyy]

I agree, escort missions, ground attack and CAS are much better uses for it. I do think it’s not all that bad for long-range, independent scouting missions tho, raw speed doesn’t matter so much for those compared to range, survivability, communications suite, etc. The heavy crew especially is good for that, 3 clones and an astromech is ridiculous if the fighter is in a space superiority role, but for long range reconnaissance you could have one pilot fly while the other sleeps, and you have a second person to handle comms and navigation once you actually make contact with the enemy.

[@DashsChannel]

I always thought the notion of a starship classified as "fighter" but being way way bigger than a traditional one-man ship to be fascinating. The Longsword from Halo definitely fits that definition, being extremely heavily armed with both guns and ordnance, as well as the real-life Tu-28, which was the single biggest plane to still be classified as a fighter. the ARC very much feels like the SW version of a ship like those, only a great deal smaller. I am actually curious about possible SW ships, in either the Legends or Disney canon, that are sort of like that. The Skipray Blastboat comes to mind, at least for me.

[@nitebones1]

the arc was really good in its pathfinder role, and something that really shouldnt be over looked, the ability to jump ahead of the fleet just before the battle, scan the battlefield to relay back, how many CIS ships and what positions they are in. would allow the republic to better perpar what fighters or bomber combonation they have ready on their flight deck, and would allow them to jump closer to the battle as they would have a clearer picture of the battlefield. once the fleet is jumped the arcs can then just assist in the battle

[@landontoaster3818]

I’ve always seen this ship as bait similar to the German ju-87 G, the Stuka with cannons that served a strike aircraft role, but could fend off fighters and serve a light bomber roll if necessary.

[@IRMentat]

a slightly bigger than usual gun would eb great for strafing runs and taking on larger droids (or corvettes) but for the most part the empire had their big fast ships for those duties. I actually like that there was some doctrinal dead ends in the clone wars vs direct transition to the empire format.

[@stevedenis8292]

Who commissioned the Equipment for the Republic? Good old Palatine playing both sides .He may influenced the purchase of expensive equipment .Remember his end goal. Was for the separatist and the republic to weaken enough for him to take over easily. On the other hand still a very nice ship it looked cool.

[@toxic_icecream]

Considering their use against CIS the good shielding, rear gun and good armor more than make up for the lack of maneuverability which is inevitable vs droid fighters

[@cass7448]

I reckon the ARC would be spectacular in a convoy raider role. It's got range, its own hyperdrive, plentiful firepower to take down numerous lightly-armoured targets, and enough survivability to ward off any escorts/interceptors for the time it takes to withdraw.

[@patrickfiller5197]

Spams like button because it’s Eck, only to realize the video is about the failure of one of the coolest fighters ever. Talk about complex feels

[@Rose_Butterfly98]

It's basically a heavy fighter. Like a Potez 630. We don't have those anymore in real life either. It's just better to have more specialised and simple aircraft. Complex aircraft that can fulfil multiple positions usually, like stated with the arc-170, have high maintenance costs and can be hard to maintain because things are hard to reach. They also don't perform very well at either task. And also as stated the cost of losing one. If you split the roles, the upfront cost might be more, but you lose less per vehicle and maintenance is usually faster and cheaper. The empire also went full cheapo and the Rebels couldn't afford it. Heck ignoring the gunner position, you could field twice as many y-wings and instead have a-wings be the gunners. Even with just the same amount of y-wings as arc-170s, that's a lot more bombs.

[@sleeper6000]

I love the design and aesthetics of the ARC, it was definitely a very specific and specialized attack fighter. It was always kind of better for the type of conflict the clone wars was as the republic had hordes of clones they could throw at fighting the Separatists. Over the Galactic Civil War, which was more of a guerrilla type conflict, the Rebellion could only spare teams for such a fighter if they were special-ops most likely. Even if it's outdated the design at least carried over elements to the x-wing which was certainly an improvement on the platform's concepts and got rid of a lot of the not so good aspects of the ARC.

[@d-resmin]

I was a bit shocked to hear you say "zed" then I remembered that you're Canadian.

[@mattpetit1348]

It's between the ARC-170 and the U-Wing for modifying into a personal ship to fly around the galaxy in. Love both ships!

[@markcarpenter6020]

I think it's less that it's a failure and more it wasn't used in it's right place. I can see using it for hit and run behind enemy lines and as a scout, but I think they would also work great as a fast attack patrol boat. Like the torpedo boats used in WW2. They would patrol areas in small groups and when they spotted an enemy vessel they would make a surprise attack. Roar in at full speed drop their torpedoes then run like hell. With ARC's long range capabilities and heavy firepower when compared to other fighter designs I could see it fitting into this role nicely.

[@shadow9774]

I think the arc 170 would be good as a gunship and medium corvette killer. Fast and mobile enough to out run most of them sub light, and powerful enough with it's medium laser cannons along with the proton torpedoes. I would assume that while slower, they are still faster than a dedicated bomber. Allowing for an easier escort for dedicated dogfighters.

[@trebacca9]

The 170 is more of a niche craft. It's great for some scenarios, and ideal in a mixed squadron where it can keep the squad from picking up a tail. I feel like a squad consisting of 2 ARC-170's, 2 V-19s, and 2 Y-Wings would make for an excellent assault element. The V-19s are faster and more suited to countering any interceptors, the ARCs are ideal heavy escorts for the bombers, and the Y-Wings carry enough payload to make any target hurt. That said, I think the ARC would've done better if they'd managed to reduce it to 2 crew, with the astromech only needed for hyperdrive capability.

[@seasirocco3063]

Reminds me of the Douglas Skypirate, now that I think about it.

[@jacobweinstock2180]

When the Mandalorian got is Nabuu fighter, the 170 seemed like a better bounty hunter ship, a master of none sort of ship, could upgrade it with faster everything, turn the gunner seat into a brig, probably another droid for the rear gun, make room for more gear and guns, greater mobility

[@ghfdt368]

Another reason the Arc-170 wasnt as popular with the rebellion was because lt looks at least to me much more difficult to modify vs a Y wing aswell. Y wing seems much easier to modify and retrofit or refit to the missions needs. The Arc using heavy armour, components not made anymore or in limited numbers in addition would be using decades old tech, while the Y wing components are much easier to replace, maintain or update equiptment, engines and the such. This is clearly shown since the Y wing is used for decades after the clone wars and galactic civil war, even being used along side the B wing an K wing in legends albeit updated to modern technology.

[@jamestarbet9608]

Reminds me of the WWII era P-61 Black widow (night fighter).

[@deathwatcha6197]

ARC 170 will forever be my most favorite star fighter!

[@Doginthesleep]

I just love the look of it so much. It looks so mean in a good way.

[@rominkivela9351]

a role i think the ARC 170 would excel in would be as a strike fighter, using its cannons to decimate infantry and armored targets, and its torpedoes for precision strikes or something the cannons can't deal with alone. while it wouldn't be better than the Y-Wing as a bomber, it would definitely be better than the Y-Wing for CAS sorties. the tail guns would be especially useful to help allow for the ARC 170 to carry out air strikes in heated airspace too. it could still benefit from condensing down to even a pilot and copilot plus the astromech, and i think could conceivably be viable in a CAS role with a crew of 2 and an astromech, similar to the Y-Wing. additionally, the sensors in the nose would still be useful for recon, as well as acquiring target locks and act as a relay to extend the range of a dedicated AWACS vessel (although AWACS doesn't appear to be a thing in SW as far as i'm aware). overall, I don't think the ARC 170s flaws are the main reason it failed (though they did contribute to it). if anything, poor utilization is what i think really held the fighter back

[@reecedrury4145]

Any reason for the wings opening up apart from visually tieing into the xwing? Makes sense with the xwing with the 4 cannons but pointless here as far as I can see and so complexity for the sake of it

[@imikari2583]

It's probably also worth nothing that a multirole ship like the ARC-170 would be better in a situation where one side has limited carrier capacity for fighters, and needs to make the most out of every slot - whereas the Republic in the Clone Wars had the opposite problem. Republic fleets had excessive capacity for fighters, but Starships of the Galaxy notes that Venators regularly went into combat with only a fraction of their hangar space filled, as there just weren't enough fighter squadrons to go around. If anything, a high-maintenance and expensive fighter like the ARC-170 with such a disproportionately high crew requirement would only have made this problem worse - why have a squad of ARC-170s when you could instead crew a full wing of other fighters?

[@TheWingland]

Fleet battle between Grand admiral Thrawn vs. Ender Wiggin Each one has an equal sized fleet with equally capable subordinates, and since Ender is from a different universe each has equal understanding of the technology they’re using. They are in command of Star Wars vessels. Pick a famous fleet of your choosing I’d suggest death squadron

[@RorikH]

Hey, I know you've been requesting this battle for at least several months, but I gotta ask, wouldn't it be more interesting if they each had their own universe's ships? I mean, if they have the same stuff it just feels like it's up to who Eck decides is more intelligent, rather than seeing how the two technologies would interact. (I'd give Star Wars The edge, but I think the hyperdrives in the Enderverse also rip apart anything they touch, which might be effective for ramming and as a shield, and Jane's incredibly powerful teleportation ability combined with Little Doctors would be a huge edge. )

[@TheWingland]

@@RorikH The problem with them using their own universes ships and weapons is that the little doctor in Enders game is literally a planet killing weapon on all his capital ships. Like realistically Enders fleet any one ship could take out the Death Star. In fact any one ship could obliterate the fleet at Exegol with one shot from the little doctor.

[@enisra_bowman]

as much as the gatekeeper hated the design of the Prequels for beeing "to modern and clean for something older", i always licked the Style of 30/40s in the PT, and the ARC, starting from the Venators has some Visual Clues to the Fighter and Divebomber launched from the Carrier in the Pacific and the traces to the large 3 Man Planes where the OT had more of a Jet Age Style of Fighters

[@jatelitherius9842]

‘Aggressive Reconnaissance’ IE Adam Steiner’s Recon Lance

[@rdubayoo]

Star Wars has always had an issue with fighters dying too easily. Like this fighter is described as a flying tank, but one droid fighter sneezes on it and it explodes.

[@Kingofportals]

I prefer the V Wing Starfighter over the Arc 170 when it comes to Clone Wars era ships, although the V Wing in my favorite Starfighter in all of Star Wars, a great Republic and Imperial ship as well as the predecessor to the TIE Fighter Line.

[@ytubestolemyhandle]

Still think it was better than the B-wing that essentially replaced it as a heavy assault fighter (especially since that one's so complicated to operate that humans were basically ruled out as pilots for it - you needed a species with faster brain and/or more arms lol).. Just replace the rear gunner (and possibly co-pilot) with a salvaged droid - the galaxy is practically littered with them after clone wars. X-wing is more of a multi-purpose craft, a middle ground between A-wings and B-wing, that was a little worse than either of them for the role, but made up for it by being incredibly versatile (and most likely cheaper to produce than either of the specialized crafts) able to be thrown at almost any mission with little to no modification needed.

[@ManxoChu]

Silly question: If the ARC-170 is used in long-range missions, how/where does the crew use the refresher? XD

[@richardlew3667]

Shay I don't understand is why would the ARC-170 need extra gunners when the astromech aboard could easily fill in many of those roles.

[@stoubenheinz2581]

So was it replaces by the V-wing before the tie series came out?

[@ZeSgtSchultz]

This is gunna be like that Lazerpig video about the A10 isnt it.... *sniffles* I dont know if I'm ready to be hurt again so soon

[@HamanKarn567]

It would have been awesome to get an animated rogue squadron series based on the eu comics and novels. The fighter pilots and ships of star wars are just as cool if not cooler than Jedi and sith imo

[@jmurray1110]

Personally I still love this ship for its design the republic era has some of the best ship designs and colour schemes sure all grey can work but it’s a hard to make out distinct details due to them fading into the made body

[@nebulous6660]

It’s weird hearing someone talk about this as if it has any basis in reality. Reminds me of the History channel.

[@tacticaljunk1608]

Not a huge fan of the prequels, but my favorite part was watching the Republic fleet evolve into the ships of the Alliance. With even the Y Wing being recycled for the next generation. The latter highlighting the forced resourcefulness of the Rebels.

[@k98_zock_tv47]

The same as like the Bf 110 from the Luftwaffe.

[@BassFlapper]

4:52 Pacificly mentions

[@MatthewLawrence.]

I feel that the ARC 170 would have been a deadly boom and zoom fighter with it only needing 1 attack run to decimate it’s target

[@kennymccormick9973]

The ARC-170 reminds me of the A10

[@PokemonHaloFan]

I've always liked the look of the ARC-170 ever since first seeing it in Revenge of the Sith. But I never considered how maintenance and crew intensive the ship is. I always thought the rear gunner and the co-pilot were kind of redundant when the X-Wing only required a single pilot and Astromech. But if they are necessary for operation then yeah the ship is way too overburdened. Why not let the Astromech run the rear turret on the ARC-170?

[@shamusfarmer]

Toppo DID become a G.o.D. Belmont said "this is the birth of God of Destruction Toppo!".

[@chrisblake4198]

The ARC would have been great if the GAR had needed a ship for covert insertion missions. Three ARC troopers or commandos on a long range op with no support. Alternatively if they'd needed a supply line raider, it probably would have been great in that role. However very little of the Clone Wars involved asymmetric attacks on Separatist worlds, and droid fleets didn't need food or medicine. I got to fly one in Star Wars Galaxies, and while it was interesting and flat out gorgeous, it wasn't great at anything, just decent at most things. The fire arcs for the gunner seat were a huge pain, much worse than for a Y-Wing or bigger ships. The hit box was also worse than a Y-Wing's thus it never saw significant use in PvP. It was fun to have in your garage and to goof off with, but the canonical design issues actually translated to the game pretty well, all things considered.

[@hanif-pl5hd]

one of the most beautiful starfighters in the prequel

[@ScumOfTheEarthRollerDerby]

I was hoping for the Arc 170 to show up in Star Wars Squadrons

[@rodneypayne4827]

I always thought that the 170 wasn't that bad, just heavily outnumbered by droid fighters, sometimes 10 to 1.So is it any wonder that heavy losses occurred? Even Headhunters and V-Wings had trouble with numbers they faced.

[@nickvinsable3798]

🤔 . . . What other variants of the ARC-170 could be built? Personally, I think some interstellar spec-ops group could’ve used one well, especially since it can already hold three people, might need to make room for one or two more squad members & such. Otherwise 🤷‍♂️…

[@timothygross1604]

Arc 170 seem more like they were Intended to be space pbys or Catalinas were in ww2. More long distance recon and airspace command and control but with the ability to defend or attack ground installations

[@willlasdf123]

Idk how people don't want a SPACE F-15E / P-61. Thing was a beast!

[@whitlocktherevanchist5236]

the weight had to be an issue on this ship too for speed and maneuverability. i mean sure it can do a lot of damage, but its got to be so heavy that it cant be used ina dogfight with ties or stand up to the level of a awing or an xwing. its a cool ship but it seems like it would be almost useless against other fighters. i cant imagine it does well with tight dogfighting maneuvering and regardless of the shield, eventually you could do repeated fly bys and take it out. i think it probably seemed like a good idea because of the amount of incredible features it had, but the pilots of the rebellion who did the dogfighting wouldnt want to use it because sometimes having too many features can make things overly complicated. the xwing pilots had good maneuverability with lazers and proton torpedoes. they relied on their ability to fly really well and i think the arc-170 removed that advantage

[@JoeKing-_i_am_not_joking]

The Arc 170 is the Me110 of Star Wars where the X Wing is the Me109. It's a heavy destroyer and not a interceptor

[@danamoore1788]

Okay, so my opinion. The ARC-170 as shown in this video is a case of preparing for the last war. Or rather, late in the war they released a weapon to handle a problem at the beginning of the war. It also feels a bit like congressional mission creep. The bit that happens when a 'cheap' craft is being developed to reduce the need for the 'expensive' craft. But then they tack on so many requirements that it bogs down and becomes far more complicated and expensive than what it was intended. That said, I think this craft is 900% better than the B/SF-17 Bombers in the Last Jedi.

[@maxbrandt6]

It was a dumb idea to put those massive canons way out on the wing tips for dogfighting. Attacking very large targets its fine but close in fighting, no.

[@razorburn645]

Still my favorite fighter with the star wing in second.

[@SudrianTales]

It's a Boulton Paul with ME 210 characteristics. It could be good but the X Wing was a better investment

[@nahuelleandroarroyo]

Wouldnt a frame like the ARC170 be very good on recon, ECM, command and control and by removing the turrets you can move one VIP or agent

[@Warlocke000]

The ARC-170 may have lost in this video, but it won my heart.

[@spark300c]

I do know why is so crew intensive because in Star Wars that have advance computers. It just need a crew of one. That why I though of ARC 170 as the clone fighter. It uses clones as the Brians. Also you need to have production of clones to have enough personal to man those things. also the rear gunner is because no clone out fly a droid fighter. That why it has rear gunner. Sine no clone can out fly droid fighters is why arc-170 is heavy.

[@Liam_TheNoob]

Would be sick to have an ARC as a bounty hunter better than the N1 anyway 😅

[@tennessee3156]

Nooo my fav fighter :(

[@Jenkin_Jones]

Thank you for the video, I agree however I would label it as a successful failure. It did it's job and did it well enough for the Republic whose doctrine and logistics supported its use. The Rebels and Empire and other factions either due to worse logistics or doctrine differences couldn't, they built what worked for them (or had the illusion of them thinking it worked) plus these types of craft with their design can be a bit iffy. Not due to fault of the craft itself but the designers and what is envisioned. Plus you take anything outside the role it is designed for and it would suffer. Though personally I'd have picked a smaller, lighter craft with good electronic equipment for recon. Though the atmospheric attack bomber is a very good point, think it could have worked if retooled for that.

[@G31M1]

They could have modified the ARC-170 later on to get rid of the rear gunner and let the astromech shoot the rear guns. Now we are down to 2 pilots already. Or replace 2 of the human crew members with 2 astromechs int total. Yeah they have to work a bit more because the two of them fill out the role of the atromech and two crew but I'm sure it could be done. Also astromechs are easier to replace than skilled pilots with a lot of training

[@stoutyyyy]

I think 2 clones and an astromech would be more than adequate for its intended role. A fighter with a tail gunner is already shaky ground, but if you really need the rear gun let the droid fire it. But 2 human pilots is ideal for the fighter’s original role of long-range reconnaissance, and especially if it were shifted to an escort or ground attack/CAS role.

[@curtishoward4470]

I think the Rebel alliance could have used this better. Keep the rear gun, but replace the two cockpits with astromech or two.

[@Shepherd1952]

What game is thag hes playing with the arc?

[@kfcroc18]

What is that LEGO game you are playing?

[@CloneScavengerVulpin8389]

The arc-170 could be modified so that it will only require one pilot and an astromech, making it more like an x-wing.

[@jackashmore]

Arc 170 is basically Star Wars version of the Bradley

[@ch1ppy755]

The ARC170 look like a JU87 with the 37mm cannon variant.

[@Omegadoomship]

I feel like the ARC-170 was underused in Star Wars and therefore made it seem inferior to the more commonly seen star fighters. I don’t think it was a good dog fighter. It’s big and cumbersome and not too maneuverable. The fact that you need 3 crew is illogical in a fighter but makes sense as a bomber. The ARC-170 was designed as a heavy fighter/bomber for long range missions or for going up against capital ships or ground attack. The heavy laser cannons were ideal for punching through shields and taking out ground targets. The best use of this ship would be to have a squadron of fighters come out of hyperspace, quickly attack an enemy fleet and launching their torpedos, and then jump back into hyperspace before the enemy can launch their fighters. The tail gun would be good for defending against enemy fighters during their retreat so they can jump back into hyperspace. Good for hit and run attacks. This ship would have been good for the rebels to use.

[@OrcinusLaryngologist]

What book is that? I need it!

[@richardched6085]

It requires 3 people and an Astromech Droid for peak performance. The X-Wing only requires a single individual and Astromech Droid. Both have comparable firepower and the X-Wing is faster and more maneuverable. Sure the X-Wing doesn't have an aft Turret. But it didn't really need one....

[@albertanmotorcyclist6419]

Tell that to all the pilots who died in the Death Star trench run, aft gun woulda came in handy lol

[@richardched6085]

@@albertanmotorcyclist6419 Ok that is a good point 😆. I mean Y-Wings also have rotatable Turrets yet Gold Squadron didn't make use of em. Probably would have diverted Shield power.

[@richardgaldos6901]

It was a failure because it has one crippling problem. Its crew. A three man crew for a fighter is unnaceptable. Especially when its being used in situations where numbers are an issue. In Legends, 3 men was far too many Clones due to the limited number of Clones since it took 10years to create them. And the non-clone Republic soldiers didnt use them. The Rebellion lacked the numbers to put 3 soldiers in a single fighter. So in the end the only people who could use it was maybe the Empire and Filoni's Republic since they apperently had an army of multi billion clones. And even then the Empire doctrine was "why have 1 fighter when you can have 3?" Basically it was bad because it was designed for a militiary no one was using

[@NomadShadow1]

Star Wars people don't seem to mind spending days at a time in their starfighters. Whenever I go on a road trip I need to get out and walk around every couple of hours lol

[@ryansilcox1124]

The Arc 170 would have benefit from whatever the Star Wars equivalent would be to our real life modernization programs. Imagine an upgraded version with better engines, one less crew, and additional blasters or even heavy ion cannons. Could give the B-wing a run for its money as an anti capital fighter

[@paulconrad6220]

I think the E-wing fills that role well. Even has a similar nose

[@Restilia_ch]

retrofit one and it'd be a far better ship for Din Djarin as well. Remove the rear gunner and copilot seats to be a tiny habitation area, slap an ion cannon on it for disabling targets, stuff like that. Far better than a Naboo starfighter IMO.

[@larslaufer301]

What is the second Pilotes role anyway? Looking targets for the torpedos? Giveing more situational awarness for the Pilot as he can concentrate on other stuff?

[@yeetyeet5079]

@@larslaufer301 to work In shifts on long missions

[@bradhedgehog12]

@@Restilia_ch yeah

[@VictorKiithsa]

Even though this fighter was a handfull its still my favorite. It looks mean and agressive, its got big guns to punch well above its weight, and that tail gun likely made this ship come home a lot more.

[@RorikH]

Yeah, like 90% of all casualties in SW dogfights are preceded by some variant of "there's a bogey on my tail". The fact that they can't just do a quick 180nlike in Battlestar Galactica is a huge weakness.

[@boobah5643]

Going by the "WWII _in space"_ theme for _Star Wars_ starfighters, most of the time a tail gunner does more to make you a sitting duck than it helps. Unless you're already so slow/unmaneuverable it doesn't matter.

[@commandercody2980]

@@boobah5643 why is that? Genuinely curious here

[@boobah5643]

@@commandercody2980 Because the faster, more maneuverable plane gets to choose the fight, and you can (to simplify a bit) always make a faster, more maneuverable fighter by removing the tailguns and gunner and shortening the fuselage. Because a tailgunner probably only had a couple .30 cal MGs while six .50 cals is an average forward armament; even ignoring the problems caused by the pilot's maneuvering and the limited firing arcs for the tailgun the pursuing plane is throwing a _lot_ more lead. Which isn't to say that no one tried it; both the RAF and Luftwaffe fielded fighters with tailguns at the beginning of WWII. The German plane was more useful as close air support or a night fighter (big plane could carry bombs, rockets, radar) while the British was so bad they were removing them from service during the Battle of Britain.

[@commandercody2980]

@@boobah5643 that actually makes sense. Thank you for the information.

[@jarrodtan5712]

Republic basically used the ARC 170 in the wrong role. The ARC 170 is a attack fighter that hit hard and can support ground troops for long time

[@nickshaffer80]

so essentially an A-10 being used by the typical Ace Combat protagonist

[@madisonatteberry9720]

So.....basically it was the 'A-10' of the Star Wars universe?

[@TheRezro]

Also in canon ARC170 was actually broadly used by both Rebels and Empire, but intended role as heavy reconnaissance fighter.

[@phoenixx913]

@@madisonatteberry9720 No the K-Wing in legends is the A-10 of star wars that thing had enough weaponry on it to make a a-10 blush.

[@madisonatteberry9720]

@@phoenixx913 Oh.

[@nickshaffer80]

I think in a Rebellion-era or post-empire setting, an ARC-170 could make for a pretty good central pillar of a show. 3 characters, and droid as the cast. whether they be mercenaries or Rebels, trying to keep the aging fighter active as it’s original design becomes increasingly obsolete could even lend the ship itself becoming a character, much like the eponymous Battlestar Galactica in the RDM reimagining Of course it would have to start out heavily modified, much like Mando’s N1

[@madisonatteberry9720]

*Hey there!* I saw your comment, like the idea, and posted one that I had, along similar lines and wondering what you thought of it, anyways, you don't have to read it, but if you are interested, then here's the 'copy and pasted' comment I made, if you do, then I thank you for your time; ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- My issue with the Republic air forces was that they had too many classes, bringing up the cost. I actually like the concept of the ARC-170, but was probably poorly used in battle, similar to how later the Empire misused their Super Star Destroyers. The ARC-170 should have been a 'special opt only' fighter. How I would have built and used it, was give it a buoyant hull (more on that in a moment), increase the crew number to either four or six, give it bombing abilities.....which I think the ARC-170 could, in some models, already do- Anyways; Lets go with the crew of 'six' and each members themselves have multiple skills of engineers and medical training, of course combat training from saboteur to sniper or even recovery missions for data or some intel on a certain vessel or experiment, which training alone would be expensive, but being a 'special ops' is to be expected, as well not used in large numbers anyways. When this ARC-170 goes on a mission, one crew stays behind as a pilot to get out and go if need be, or using the automated gunners and astromech, give support. Five of the crew go out on the mission to do what is needed, if the world is a water world, like Mon Cal, and a base is underwater, then this ARC-170 is buoyant (told you I was coming back to this) and close to the water line, possibly even colored to look like the surrounding water itself so to not make it standout. The five team members go into an area, recover what they were sent to recover, or scout out, or destroy, then go back to the ARC and get the Hell out. I would love to make a show about something like this, maybe not an 'ARC-170' but a variant or updated version, 'ARC-180' or something like that.

[@yuenwang4894]

You need to start writing these Star Wars shows man

[@thesolarhunter]

The ship would need a catchy name, which in turn could be the name of said show

[@krisgonynor689]

@@thesolarhunter "The Last Arc"?

[@Brody2362]

that sounds like it could be good so Disney would never go for it.

[@jacobgracia8603]

Don't listen to him ARC-170 your beautiful

[@Tar-Numendil]

Props to you for being able to look at this objectively. I just can't, i'm biased and I love the ARC-170 too much.

[@RorikH]

It is nice to still be able to get Har hitting journalism on which spaceships are the coolest in this day and age.

[@treystephens6166]

I feel the same way about a TIE Fighter.

[@Madwand99]

Many of the problems with the ARC-170 can be mitigated with droid technology. For example, automating the back turret, a droid co-pilot etc. all reduce crew costs greatly. Once you do that, all you need are some minor improvements, a somewhat improved engine etc. The ARC-170 just needed a little more engineering work and a change in doctrine and that would have made it one of the most terrifying starfighters in the galaxy. It also has some of the best stats for a starfighter in the Star Wars FFG RPG.

[@thebighurt2495]

Alternatively, scrap the sucker and build 3 X Wings out of that.

[@Madwand99]

@@thebighurt2495 The ARC-170 only costs 50% more (in credits) than an X-wing, and has correspondingly more firepower, armor, and shields. In other words, you are definitely getting what you are paying for. Also, the X-wing was not available for sale in the same era the ARC-170 was in use.

[@thebighurt2495]

@@Madwand99 Eh, it's not worth the loss of 3 trained crew to one. That having been said, fair point about the timing.

[@thotpatrol9885]

@@thebighurt2495 Gair point about the crew, but the uses for the two ships are different, honestly if the Rebels used ARC's for their intended use, Aggressive Reconnaissance, I think it would've fared very well. In fact the same could be said of the Republic. It was just used in the wrong role, as a short range heavy fighter, instead of the long range hit and run capabilities it was built for. It's damn near the perfect ship for the Rebels, who use hit and run tactics quite often

[@thebighurt2495]

@@thotpatrol9885 Generation Tech did a whole video on the A-Wing (and it's predecessor, the R22 Spearhead) and basically pointed out they're a superior scout to the ARC. Faster, stealthy, dodgy and with better sensors. That having been said, they weren't available until around Yavin.

[@DharkDemonBlade]

The arc 170 basically went the same way the F-14 tomcat did a super strong dominant and heavy fighter that requires two pilots and sadly the maintenance cost was way too much to justify it

[@pepperedash4424]

Not exactly. The F-14 was faster than its successor, the F/A-18 Super Hornet, while the ARC-170 was slower than an X-Wing. The F/A-18F is a tandem seat fighter. Not sure regarding the ranges of the X-Wing and ARC-170, but the F-14 had the longer range. The F-14 carried more ordinance than the Super Hornet, while the ARC-170 and X-Wing carried about the same. Too bad the F-14 couldn't be a cropped-delta wing, or some other more contemporary design.

[@KarimAlKharsa]

@@pepperedash4424 would the arc be similar to the F35?

[@pepperedash4424]

@@KarimAlKharsa I've seen the ARC-170 be described as a multi-role fighter. So in a way, yes. But I've also seen them be compared to heavy fighters of ww2.

[@forgivememama2833]

@@KarimAlKharsa yeah but the f-35 is successful while the arc 170 wasn’t

[@Brandon_Y.]

isn't arc 170 just basically the B-Wing.

[@rhyslos1]

This starfighter has always been my favorite in the star wars universe. It can do just about anything, and it looks cool. I think it made sense to have a jack of all trades fighter in the clone wars considering the variation in Separatist starfighters and capital ships, however against any other star fighter it's outperformed in each design field. I think the ARC-170 Follows the same design philosophy as the venator, as a multi role fighter, where the venator was both a carrier and a star destroyer. Good overall, but outperformed against a traditional carrier or traditional star destroyer. In the end it's a good breakdown and reflection video, I enjoyed it :)

[@videosmith419]

Yeah thats a good way to put it.

[@midgetydeath]

The point of multi-role is to be the workhorse and you can add specialize craft to a mission as needed to augment the force for the mission’s objectives. And so it’s cheaper without reducing its effectiveness. It can also swap objectives more ably than more specialized craft. The ARC-170, though, is not multi-role. It is a fighter/attacker like the F/A-18.