Why The Cold Approach Made Men More Creepy

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[@excelself]

What if they both are right? Cold approach teaches you to accept rejection. Social Circle helps women lower their guard against you. Both sides have really good ideas… Now personally I use “attraction”

[@AK-fb7zn]

Exactly. It's not one or the other.

[@ianroach1099]

If there’s cold approach then what if theirs warm approach? Like if your around a girl a lot in the gym or in school college. Cold approach would be like talking to random girls at the mall.

[@NebulaSon]

I'm not going to walk around getting rejected just to get rejected. That sounds crazy.

[@billusher2265]

The problem with basing your game on social circle is you are filtering for a specific type of girl. While preselection makes you more attractive, it alienates women who assume you’re a player and attracts women who are particularly status seeking. This can have side effects of missing out on women with certain desirable qualities and attracting women with certain undesirable qualities.

[@JuanGarcia-fd4gu]

Not true. If you want a girl who loves to go to church and hates the club, then you just run social circle at church and gain status, social proof, & preselection there to trigger attraction. For example, if you’ve never seen a pastor with a smokin hot wife… you ain’t been to enough churches brotha.😅 P.S. - Happy Sunday, go to church.

[@jasonfields7058]

@@JuanGarcia-fd4gu It sounds like ya are not realize the pool is tainted. That shit dont work anymore. The hoes have destroyed the church.

[@Threelegs94]

Lol cmon guys don't be naive. Just because she goes to church doesn't mean she is pure, how many pastors have married pornstars, I get it but to think just because you go to church ur going to find a good woman is naive

[@JuanGarcia-fd4gu]

@@Threelegs94 exactly, which is why after church you go to Sunday at XS or LIV🍾

[@Threelegs94]

@@JuanGarcia-fd4gu sure buddy whatever you say.

[@masterwerneck]

The better of worlds would be if cold-approach really works, but the sucess rate is very low and just super good-looking guys seems to have good results with attractive girls.

[@Dbo_Sports]

He’s right about Poland… you’ll go absolutely nuts in Eastsrn Europe… the beauty in Eastern Europe is sooo underrated.

[@StefIsCold]

Warm and lukewarm approach > cold approach by far. Use cold approach as a supplement, but if you have options you shouldnt need to do that much cold approach

[@PepeCoinMania]

cold approach is absolutely hard and not for everyone, most guys will fail on that all the times

[@MaccusFNS]

what does he mean by time investment? It's huge time waste doing cold approach. you always start at 0

[@tonymontez2358]

I understand both sides. Yes if you have 10 hot girls with you in your social circle it’s going to be easy to get other women but the other side is if you don’t know how to talk to women or cold approach methods you’re going to still look weird and awkward because you don’t know how to speak or have a conversation with women

[@spicana]

Both people brought up good points during this debate. It was an intelligent discussion.

[@dogsandcars202]

That course sounds crazy

[@mrmanq9517]

You need game to become a guy people want to be around, for SOCIAL CIRCLE to work 🔥 Cold approach is key!

[@jasonfields7058]

ive said the same thing. That is literally the first step. Not necessarily to snag lots of chicks but you at least need to have the personality, game, and lifestyle people want to be around for you to have "models" hang out with you for them to go wing man you a chick.

[@mrmanq9517]

Facts....develops your witt and charm@@jasonfields7058

[@Duddamac]

Define game

[@cvrki7]

@@DuddamacThe ability to talk to a girl with sexual intent without creeping her out

[@maskedman5657]

It's not. Cold Approaching is dead

[@jasonfields7058]

Is PUA even a thing anymore? I think that was a thing a few years ago. It was just one phase of the red pill/mgtow manosphere. Last time i really heard or seen anything PUA was like 2014-15 when it got really commercialized and after the fallout with mystery, Strauss, and true social dynamics.

[@StefIsCold]

The two other guys on the panel are PUAs and currently make content

[@jasonfields7058]

@@StefIsCold Oh, i get that but its like i havent seen or heard anything from the PUA community in a while. Like since 2015. I remember there was a falling out between the different schools of PUA and all that an then it was like all that stuff disappeared or just went not necessarily mainstream but side stream. Its like the whole Woke/PC stuff took over. I remember the talk shows where there were a few of the icons of the PUA community that went mainstream and they got shitted on and women were complaining or whatever. Then poof, just went dark after a year or so.

[@StefIsCold]

@@jasonfields7058 oh yeah, PUA was always the ba$tard son of game and a haven for losers and borderline incels/true incels and socially stunted or awkward men. Besides mysterys show on VH1 and a few entertaining shows about PUA, it shouldve never went mainstream lol. Mystery is a weirdo himself to an extent but his show was entertaining so im glad he and neil strauss were popular for a time lol

[@StefIsCold]

@@jasonfields7058 and im surprised PUA even got as popular as it did in the past decade cuz i feel like we have been living in SJW land for almost two decades now

[@jasonfields7058]

@@StefIsCold Well, you have to remember PUA started WAY before that all started happening. I remember when mystery went mainstream with the TV show an then some of these talk shows started coming on and having some of the big names talk about PUA. if you go back, you can see how all of the cultural Marxist stuff lead to the current manifestation of the passport movement and how women have become toxic. It started with PUAs going on shows. Then the women were literally complaining that men had to "learn" this shit on how-to pick-up women during the show. You could see it was like they were instinctually reacting like they were cheated. Then thats when all of the other stuff started happening in parallel. AKA mattress girl, duke lacross case, rolling stones case, Obamas dear john letter that led to PC culture and feminist taking over the colleges, gamergate, elevatorgate, donglegate, shirtgate. this was all stuff happening independent of the PUA culture as a whole but parallel to it. as to say whenever "we" evolved to meet the issue with dealing with women, it was radical feminist or feminist as a whole that went in and fucked with the culture and just made it more dangerous regardless of how evolved . i can trace this stuff down to point of origin on a timeline because i followed this stuff back then. I was there in the beginning and saw the shift and then i saw the agenda. Remember True forced loneliness movement? Or the original "The Wall" movement back then? Or the herbivore movement in Japan? All of it were harbingers of what we are seeing now.

[@rgn87654]

That DJ, photographer, and promoter mentions were all jabs at Michael. You could see him getting pissed too.

[@webdiv8406]

yep, if MOA has at least 200 students (his skool free forum has arounf 1.6k so im averaging 10% close rate + outliers outside skool. Mike has said he has more students IIRC), then the number of people Mike referenced (20-30 in this video) is about 10-15% people who can reproduce his results (and those are not his results, never seen any guy who hangs only with 9s and 10s like Mike, most of his students he shows as proof are hanging with 7s and 8s, occasionally some 9s and 10s, in apartments and ok-ish events majority of the time). That's great btw and kudos to those guys, but that's different than saying "you can get my results". You'll never get Mike's results simply because there's not enough room for 1000 Mike Sartains in Vegas. And no you cannot reproduce outisde of Vegas with exception of couple cities. There's not enough room simply cause there's not enough 9s and 10s gathered in the same geographical space, and with the same chances to build a network like Mike. Simple as that. That's what people who have skin in the game don't like. Mike is legit nobody will ever deny that, but his marketing is just out of touch with reality. And it is funny cause he seems to be so "data driven" yet it is so evident. That's the problem with Mike.

[@ApexTrading]

@@webdiv8406never seen such a better response

[@milochamp1586]

I had a friend who was an athlete dark and he slept with over 100 western women he met at nigh clubs mainly 20 years ago. He was social and new many friends but he never had a social circle. My point is you don't have to throw big parties. You can do this in small scale by bringing 2-3 girls together with another male friend and also it's good to have a good social media profile.

[@Xcrypt1991]

I don't know. Michael seems more mature, but cold approach is dear to me. Does John Anthony lie about his laycount or not? I don't know.

[@mrjagrown]

You need aspects of both in your game, it's that simple.

[@thomas73639nfwefeafew]

I agrée with the cold approach strategy, it just works so well. I was told guys in Michael’s course will literally spend a year plus doing all this content throwing events spending money etc and not get laid once during that timeframe, whereas guys who do cold approach can just go out to a nice spot any given night and pull or set up a date at least.

[@jordanknope664]

So let me get this straight… you have the skills to go to any bar on a random Tuesday evening and pull… but if you know the girl, or know her friends, you can’t?

[@webdiv8406]

​@@jordanknope664you didn't get it straight apparently. He just said Mike's students throw events and spend money for a year whereas cold approach guys just go out can do better in the same timeframe. Where do you even see he is saying he can't close with a girl you know? Nuts how you are brainwashing yourself bro

[@thomas73639nfwefeafew]

@@jordanknope664 you 100 percent should have female friends - I have many and I use the preselection as a bonus to bring her into an attractive lifestyle, it looks really good on me and helps. But people in his program have literally spend money and so much time to have zero dating results.Also try cold approaching a girl in front of your girl - it increases her attraction to you so so much. trust

[@jasonfields7058]

If you had a playmate on your arm, why would you even bother approaching regular chicks, LOL??????? Is Sartain even realizing how funny he sounds with this point?

[@Threelegs94]

It means he is used to have playmates all the time, he has an abundance mindset

[@jasonfields7058]

@@Threelegs94 Yes, the issue is the guys arent even at that level to have women like that around. Its an issue of understanding what phase you are in. The PUA stuff, for its time, got you in the door. That step one. Sartans is step two when you have built those circles. For that you need to social skills to just pick up women or at least be the type of person these women want to be around. Its like he is saying you need to have a part to get girls while forgetting you need to have the people to go to the party in the first place.

[@supernova4life1]

In this day and age you need both & more. Weird guys will become more weird

[@axezazel]

Pickup artists cant get to thoz places they dont hav the clout or the money…

[@j954]

Cold approach works but has very strict rules...

[@masteryoda498]

@j954 No, it doesn’t, you don’t approach a vvoman, unless she gives you the green light to do so.

[@stripclubrick]

“Social Circle Game” ( who tf even talks like this 😂) … is PASSIVE AGGRESSIVE 👎🏿

[@hudsonjamesc]

Black pill is lame. You can always improve yourself.

[@improover113]

Blackpill is just stats facts that's all. Objective observations

[@PepeCoinMania]

you can always update your passport, you gonna need it

[@webdiv8406]

Both approaches are working on the same principles: Abundance of hot women + raise status/gatekeep + law of averages + basic game. I'l break down these to you: For Markus/PWF that is: * (Abundance of HW): Go to a country where a lot of women are hot (Colombia, Brasil, Poland, etc) * (Status) Go to a third world country (there's a reason Alex goes to South America, and a reason Markus prefers to go to Poland/Ukraine) where USD and West European/Gringo status is king. There's a reason these guys won't go to Argentina or Chile in America for example, or most of Europe. Reason is gringo status and cash won't give them as much status as they would get in other countries. There's a reason, again, a lot of passport bros are starting to complain Colombia is not as easy as it used to be. * (Law of averages): In the case of Alex and Markus that's simply tinder boosting, using multiple profiles etc and approaching. You'll get some women and if most of them are 7s well chances are you won't be with a lot of 5s. For Mike that is: * (Abundance of HW): Build a social circle in areas where there's a lot of HW (Vegas, etc. and you can see this strategy doesn't work as well with his students who don't live in those areas. And no, the examples Mike likes to show from students not living in good cities are not the same caliber of women Mike is hanging out with. He is always referring to pictures, then compare 1-1 and the women majority of his students do events with are NOT the same. They are pretty though, but to me still lacking compared to passport bro strategy done in the best places). * (Status): Build enough connections so that you can gatekeep value and be the judge of who gets access to the value. Mike likes to refer this as being the "connector" which is just a nice way of saying he is a bouncer. Why do girls are nice with bouncers? cause they want to get in to th eclub. Why are girls nice with Mike? cause they want to have access to his network, events, even having a job! Girls are nice just to Mike just because they need him (to get a job, something else), not entirely because they like him as a person (not saying that at all, he seems nice but you get the idea). Same thing though with PWF and Markus: they like them cause its a good bet to get out of extreme poverty most of the time. Not because they are cracking jokes left and right and making women feel superb on dates. * (Law of averages): In Mike's case that's just bring 100 women to a party, you'll end up sleeping with 1. Call it a day. And there's nothing wrong really with both strategies but what I really disagree with is the dishonest way both parties talk about their strategies instead of calling them for what it is. Michael hints this when he says he had two options: to teach dating (risky due to the media) or to disguise it and teach guys how to build connections. Also, Mike seems to have a beef with the passport bro approach from PWF/Markus just cause it requires significantly less effort than his, even though they are on paper the same thing. Both work though and both require little to no game to actually close girls once you have the funnel going. Pick what you'd like though. Social circle you'll get some great experiences outside of game. Passport bro approach you'll get laid easier. I've done both to some extent. Finally, yeah if you are only a cold approach guy and happen to be in a shit city, then yeah you have it rough and CA alone will not get you far. Become a digital nomad or a club promoter, or at least switch to a better city if you want to step up.

[@dogsandcars202]

Social circle does not seem practical

[@jordanknope664]

Honestly, as someone who does both, it’s much more practical than spam approaching

[@mazengwe28]

It's not practical in this day and age if you don't have friends you grew up with. Unless you are amongst college students it's highly likely your social circle is small.

[@PepeCoinMania]

what? not practical? are you kidding me

[@saadk8905]

These pickup artists are not debaters...remove em

[@djeanpierre]

Cold approach is necessary if you don’t have much of a social circle. Let’s be real: in the USA if you’re not meeting women through school, work, or social circle, it’s harder to get traction with women because they don’t trust you. So you can’t just throw cold approach totally away, especially if you’re moving to a new city or country. I personally don’t enjoy cold approaching, but a lot of times it’s necessary.

[@PepeCoinMania]

no its not necessary, cold approach doesn't work like that. you build the social circle thats it what Michael tells is that you need to build from scratch not trying approach women ramdomly

[@shortsalesumo]

I hate when you see the girl of your dreams and have to call your whole social circle to come through because you have no cold approach skills 😂

[@StefIsCold]

How would someone who has a big social circle not know how to cold approach? Its not like they were born with their entire social network; at some point they had to talk to people otherwise they wouldnt have a social circle….. tf?

[@shortsalesumo]

@@StefIsCold a social circle is built predominantly by warm approaching, that means you're introduced. If you're in the grocery store and see a girl you want to talk to could you approach? Guys who rely on social circle game and never developed cold approach a majority can not

[@StefIsCold]

@@shortsalesumo most men have done cold approach at some point. If you cant do cold approach AT ALL your social circle is probably trash or youre the loser of the group. Only you manosphere weirdos live in this world where guys could have an amazing social circle but not be any good at cold approach.

[@glennbishopbishthemagish]

Markus Wolf is right, and little Mike is wrong, in my opinion.

[@SirIsReal]

Cold approach and black pill > red pill

[@StefIsCold]

Larper702 you dont get any women youre a mentalcel