Why The 'Flawless' 7-Way Speedrun Tie ISN'T Perfect

[@Maximum]

Embarrassing moment: The original TITOL video was actually uploaded on *March* 3rd, 2021 🙃 Also, I am really sorry about messing up the audio mixing and making the montage music too loud. I'll get it right next time.

[@potatobearsmo]

That makes me seem even older lol

[@vrimb1]

I thought it felt shorter than a year ago I watched it, lol but it was longer, time is flying by

[@ig2d]

For the button mashing you could always try rolling maybe? (As per Tetris)

[@Maximum]

@@ig2d rolling probably wouldn’t work very well because the rhythm is extremely inconsistent. You need your presses to be very consistent for left right march

[@browniex5120]

Why was it so late though?

[@Aaron-cs3xl]

The year is 2030. There is now a 50-way tie for first place in the speedrun. Every competitor uses guitar hero guitars for speedrunning so they can execute frame-perfect left right marches. Many of these speedrunners are also competitive nes tetris players who use hypertapping to its fullest potential, consistently maxing out their score, with the winners usually being decided by who survives the longest, with a record match lasting for nearly an hour before one of the players started losing feeling in their hand and had to be rushed to the hospital since they were stuck in a state of constant mashing.

[@steele_heart77]

We could make a religion out of this.

[@gamerdomain6618]

@@steele_heart77 No, don't.

[@steele_heart77]

@@gamerdomain6618 *The power of yes compels you.*

[@zackbuildit88]

Ugh, no Tetris player still uses hypertapping, or at least not any important one, they all use either rolling or crunchbooping, no other strategies are even viable these days

[@steele_heart77]

@@gamerdomain6618 Ah. Far Cry reference but understandable, have a nice day.

[@adamnielson42]

16:01 The fact that the game ends with just a big "YES." is so fitting.

[@ThaRixer]

Your videos are so passionate. Amazing that the 1:50 cycle actually happened in a TAS setting, by so little too. Great job!

[@Maximum]

Thank you so much Ricky! It is pretty remarkable how tight the 1:50 cycle ended up being; there were actually 0 frames to spare for a good bit before a few more refinements were found.

[@broran_]

@@Maximum Somehow knowing it was 0 frames to spare, and it still ended up with more wiggle room in the end is just so satisfying

[@dropkickedmurphy6463]

Shouldve expected to see you here, Ricky. Dunno why I didn't.

[@EEEE42069]

mashing

[@PotofGlue]

Never considered the fact that that stage would make the entire game basically work on a 10-second framerule

[@mathismt1222]

now imagine a bus

[@lifinale]

@@mathismt1222but like, several times slower.

[@DustyyBoi]

​@@lifinalea really long bus

[@debadityanath4398]

@@DustyyBoi please explain this joke

[@mcool-df6ui]

Its how bismuth explains frame rules​@@debadityanath4398

[@bipen1176]

can we talk about how max just seems to have the fastest masher in the worlds like on speed dial?

[@Maximum]

I have lots of connections 🥸

[@bipen1176]

@@Maximum for a second there i thought that ludwig was gonna appear

[@drakez341]

@@bipen1176 ludwig is nowhere near the fastest masher in the speedrunning community. Lekukie is however

[@bipen1176]

@@drakez341 I know he isnt the fastest, but it would have been a funny edit.

[@FacialVomitTurtleFights]

Fastest masher makes me think of potatos xD xD

[@th3on3c]

In all honesty I never understood how people were able to break the tie until now because this video explains it so simply and now I feel stupid, I don't deserve to have a brain as my pfp lmao

[@Maximum]

I felt extremely stupid while I was researching this stuff don't worry

[@victorvirgili4447]

Hmm yes not being an omniscient god=dumb

[@Soupious]

Theon are you still on the run from the police

[@th3on3c]

Thankfully the RCMP isn't currently on the lookout for a kidnapped cow and 4 dozen scarecrow homicides anymore

[@Soupious]

@@th3on3c thank goodness

[@norathemediocre]

It's amazing how a seemingly simple flash game effectively combines two of the most notorious elements in popular speedruns: the Framerules of Mario 1 and the absurdly precise mashing of Wind Waker. Would love to see a 1:50 cycle become humanly achievable someday, but that'd take some _serious_ dedication.

[@joostinatortje]

As long as many of the keypresses register at a minimum time of more than the frametime (don't know about the guitar), it is close to impossible for even a frame perfect human to achieve this. The presses have to be placed after a new frame started, but well before the next frame starts (so that it only registers at that next frame. So you not only have to be 100% consistent, it also matters when the keypress cycle starts. But knowing speedrunners, this might still be achievable. What is not achievable, is for a human to know which frame is going to be delayed and which not. As explained in the video, while the frame time averages on 25ms, flash player frames often are shorter or longer than these 25ms. Since this happens on random, it is impossible for a human to train this. Basically it comes down to being a robot-like human which can press and depress 20 times per second at a perfect consistent rate while being lucky for over 100 frames in a row. While in theory it is still possible, i dare to say that without exploit or new strategy a 1:50 gate will not be reached by human input. (Don't forget that not only the left-press level has to be frame perfect, but all of them)

[@mauer1]

You don't need to be frame perfect for 3 frames.

[@ollymuirs]

Brilliant video as always. Even though I saw all this happen in the discord, it's great to have a video that explains it all so thoroughly and clearly. This game wouldn't be where it is now without you man.

[@AnAverageArceus]

This was definitely one of the craziest things I've ever seen (and been a part of) Great vid once again, maximum (Also I still find it insane how both me and kripto got the .675 on the same day, there's something funny about that even if it's no longer our PBs)

[@Maximum]

Yo, thanks Arceus!

[@BorisGamingChannel]

Why was there only one reply here lol

[@zdmacstudios]

O Lord, may you stay strong and determined as you continue in your honourable quest to become the very best like no-one ever was!

[@leftysheppey]

Imagine being so good at mashing that technology designed to be responsive and quick struggles to keep up. Man is truly a god

[@wariolandgoldpiramid]

my gosh, I could never have imagined these games of my childhood being taken so far. And I've done casual speedruns of certain flash games even back then, as the Armor Games high score boards motivated me. But this is some next level stuff.

[@sage5296]

Some small corrections and more technical explanations: 3:31 - The hack uses 1-0 for 1-10, and then q for 11-20 and w for 21-30, with 0 being registered as a +10 4:45 - The technical reason for this is that, in processing the game's collision, if the elephant collides with a floor or ceiling then a horizontal friction is applied, halving the speed of the elephant. During normal movement, the elephant "collides" with the floor roughly every other frame due to gravity, so the effective ground speed is 75% of the max speed. 15:08 - The reason for this is that the game normally checks if you're holding up (w typically) and sets the holdUp variable accordingly. If holdUp is false, it makes you fall a bit faster. On Center Keyboarder, the normal code is not ran and a separate bit of code for the new keys runs instead, but it lacks the check that sets holdUp false when you stop pressing up. Since holdUp is set true when you jump, it effectively gets stuck true. 19:12 - This is not generally true, but it is true in the case of titol and redball. In titol, the game simply only checks inputs on the frame, likely due to the fact that the game was infamously made in just a few hours! In redball, the press and release are both registered but aren’t acted upon until the frame due to the fact that the game uses acceleration based physics.

[@Liggliluff]

Awkward on the layouts that have the numbers as 0123456789 instead

[@sage5296]

@@Liggliluff true, but you can't make things work for every layout.

[@PatrickDavis28]

I can only imagine how many attempts it must've taken to even get that low on level 13

[@Maximum]

I think he put in around 2-3 hours. Already being extremely good at mashing helps a ton.

[@PatrickDavis28]

@@Maximum That's pretty impressive. By the way I started speedrunning the game today as a result of this video and I got a 2:20 cycle with like 5 seconds to spare after just a couple hours of learning the game

[@katincko]

@@Maximum nego tem muito tempo em mãos

[@shinygiveaways1920]

@@PatrickDavis28 good job

[@DEDERTEEE]

great video explaining things I didn't even know myself lmao

[@NicknotNak]

I loved this game growing up, its always nice to see content on it :)

[@herisruns]

this is the only level: the human limit

[@Maximum]

in the video script, the left right march section is labeled "The Human Limit of Left Right March" 🙃

[@herisruns]

@@Maximum nice. it's awesome that you got lekukie to help you. especially since he was the player to save the most recently saved frame at the beginning of 8-4 in super mario bros

[@LeKukie]

17:41 I was not prepared for how funny this bit was this is too good XD Glad to have helped with the video, hopefully I can improve my mashing speed to the point of getting 24cps on 10 seconds one day, tho I'm very satisfied with having gotten 23.0cps on 10 seconds. Maybe I'll even find a proper rhythm to get 3.05 in LR march which would be very hot, tho idk if that could be consistently done.

[@ItsPietroFelix]

Sub 3

[@Maximum]

Glad you enjoyed and thanks for the help🤝! Also I had no idea that you has 23 cps for 10 seconds thats insane 🤯

[@LeKukie]

@@Maximum dude I've hit 27cps 1 second aswell if I'm not mistaken, I don't remember if I uploaded that or not but the genes are there... I wish that translated to guitar hero but the grip change is too much for it to work so I'll have to figure out something different to tap fast I guess...

[@Xnoob545]

@@LeKukie 27 clicks in one second? Damn, that's very good

[@TheGaming100]

Do you plan on running any flash game Lekukie?

[@kriptopolis9444]

Awesome video! Might have to go for wr again soon

[@Maximum]

if you can get the button jump down im sure that you will be able to get at least a 2:24.525!

[@burgerminus9390]

…so imagine a bus stop

[@deathcatthor]

Give this man a pin.

[@seanbrownlee9474]

I fricken LOVE this channel. You have really gotten me into speed running, so thanks. I cant wait to see what you make next!

[@doodlegarbage6769]

Never heard of this game, never cared about this game, never knew it had a speedrun community, and yet I still found myself smiling at the TAS achieving the 1:50 boundary.

[@ThatNotSoAznKid]

Basically how it feels to watch any summoning salt video

[@ironicallypineapple]

Thank you so much for putting the songs in the description, it’s super helpful

[@ziwuri]

If lekukie doesn't get a 1:50 cycle with a guitar hero controller, we're not in the best timeline. Great video.

[@Patashu]

I was *invested* in this story ever since I found out about the tie from the previous video. Here's to it going lower!

[@thedemonslayer51]

I like how the second I say to myself "I don't think human fingers can literally tap 30-40 times a second" I'm proven wrong and I'm just like "well fuck me then huh"

[@NorXor]

dha may be able to break the 7-way TITOL tie, but I broke 8 bones in my arm, hand and leg when I was in 7th grade so who’s the REAL winner? 😏

[@Maximum]

Incredi tore apart his wrist playing red ball 4. Do better.

[@bloodlust_9890]

@@Maximum Ok currently giving myself a heart attack

[@peacefulscrimp5183]

These videos about insignificant things are so much fun and well done. I forget things going on that trouble me as I watch . Thank you for making videos like this.

[@eduardpeeterlemming]

Its great to see Max upload

[@arthurgroll4906]

Maximum, your videos are amazing!! Please never stop, I'm sure you'll hit 1+ million subs in no time!! Thanks again for this amazing masterpiece!!

[@LunaticJ]

Well this is an interesting plot twist…

[@Parzivle]

10:32 this shit gave me Vietnam flashbacks. I remember playing this game over and over again when I was younger because I was obsessed with the Ruth em of the jumping and collecting. Oh flash collectathon platformers, you’ll always have my heart

[@jamesknapp64]

I supposedly had watched this video before (about 16 months ago) but had totally forgetten everything about it. And man I'm sure people are envious I got to watch this twice "coming in blind" which was nice. Great as usual.

[@LoadingError0]

brilliant video as always max, huge shoutouts for making speedgame videos about games i played when i was like eight years old

[@browniex5120]

- Timestamps - 00:00 Introduction/Recap 02:13 The New Perfect Tie Competitors | Kriptopolis And AnAverageArceus 03:05 Trying To Find Ways To Breaking The Tie 04:11 A New Breakthrough | The Invention Of Ground Jumps 05:20 The Race To Break The Tie And The Upcoming Improvements 06:20 The Near Perfect Run 07:36 A Second Breakthrough | The Use Of Vertical Acceleration And The Invention Of Button Jumps 09:04 The Perfect Run 09:52 The Theoretical 1:50 Cycle Solution | Creating A Full TAS Of The Full Game

[@FernTheRobot]

I think the music when you're not talking is way too loud. Otherwise, this is a fascinating video! Anyone would thought a 7-way tie guarantees any timesaves to be depleted.

[@PressRToZeus]

Flash game speedrunning is so wild, I love it. Thanks for making these videos so much

[@rubengoldman5830]

This is the most competition over an Individual Level leaderboard I've ever seen.

[@ecatskid]

Is there something wrong with that

[@CuongTruong-cb3mk]

A01 Race

[@GMPranav]

Ruffle+libTAS is an immense blessing, and I was very much looking forward to it being covered in your video :D

[@puck1180]

The perfect sequel for the perfect speedrun. Great video!

[@Luciousness]

dha is my favorite Maximum character

[@Maximum]

I wish dha was real

[@Luciousness]

@@Maximum me too man. me too. :(

[@Luciousness]

Luciousness is now my favorite Maximum character sorry dha

[@Jamac89]

Nice video, but the volume of music during some montage sections was much louder than your speaking volume and I had to turn my own volume down or up on a few occasions. May want to consider that in future videos.

[@marvelvsanything]

Ha ha ha... idk bud... that sounds kind of like a you problem???? LOOOOL maybe you just need a girlfriend, like me??? ha ha ha good luck out there kid, you are definitely gonna need it with ears as weak as yours...

[@somniad]

wellllllll, TAS tools were just recently developed - it wouldn't surprise me terribly much if human viability for the 1:50 cycle came in the next few years, but it also wouldn't surprise me if they didn't. Exciting times!

[@YellowSkarmory]

I think something big would need to be discovered - the mashing has its limits as well, and they seem less breakable.

[@sage5296]

I mean the frame advance for titol has been around for nearly a year at this point, a lot of new things were found with it but even another round of improvements with proper TAS tools it's just barely possible for a 1:50... then again you really do never know with TASing

[@dan1RR]

DHA is such a legend, he just pops in every video holding records of different games

[@Chizypuff]

The music was excessively loud, other than that good video

[@Sawyer-mr8bf]

Just finished watching and...wow this vid is great

[@Maximum]

thanks toyers 🤠

[@Drybones898]

What a fucking legendary collab with the one and only Luke

[@APerson-14]

Imagine a wrong warp gets discovered and 1:50 gets destroyed

[@sage5296]

If a wrong warp did get discovered, it probably wouldn't be allowed in the glitchless category. There is a bug where after level 4 you can get the elephant to keep following the mouse, effectively trivializing all but a few levels already.

[@APerson-14]

@@sage5296 ohh k

[@player3024]

11:04 it just occurred to me that I’ve almost never heard maximum laugh in one of these documentaries

[@kog_l4mp]

7:19 i forgot about the time river and I both went for this I spent more time than i want to admit playing it lol might come back to this game

[@kog_l4mp]

also i still have the stage 10 wr for some reason dont ask me why

[@QwerbyKing]

The only winning keyboard is not to... keyboard.

[@LeonesTM]

-7 Way TITOL Tie- 68 Way Red Ball Level 1 tie

[@BlueDavrial]

I havent watched anything about this game, or even flash games in general, in well over years at this point. And i rarely watch speedrunning content. I have 0 idea why this was recommended to me, especially on a completely unrelated video. None the less, fun watch. Good vid

[@neutralnarwhal8184]

Flash game speedrunning retrospectives was not something I knew I needed in my life before this very moment.

[@yosemiteka]

your songs and sound effects are louder than the air raid siren on pearl harbor

[@PC_YouTube_Channel]

The most unexpected appearance of Luke Saward I've ever seen.

[@LukeSaward]

Yep. I'm a TASer of various Flash games too.

[@DougSalad]

@@LukeSaward hey Luke, pleasure seeing you here, and in this! :)

[@LukeSaward]

@@DougSalad Oh my shit, it's DouglAsshat! Never thought I'd see you in here :D

[@ImplodingChicken]

WHY IS THIS VIDEO ABOUT FUNNY ELEPHANT GAME SO GODDAMN HYPE

[@AwareOCE]

Awesome video! So glad to see that youve been putting out all this content, more speedrun videos on youtube = better youtube 21:30 That GH controller is such a pro move, screw the official PC peripherals, he doesnt need a tone of keys, just one thats fast enough to keep up with him XD

[@ItsPietroFelix]

Fetch a fruit is indeed a serious speedgame.

[@TheGaming100]

yeah, it's such a serious game that I was able to get top 10 in a day lmao

[@ItsPietroFelix]

Relatable

[@Drayruns]

banger as always

[@Hummeldon]

I heard that Digimon World 3 music! TITOL is such a good game. I love this community’s dedication to flash runs.

[@eventerminator1382]

Oh shit I remember playing this game back then! Didn’t expect a speed running scene for this

[@dylhas1]

Wow this is a nostalgia trip. I remember playing this game when I was still in school

[@justmax2356]

Man i love your content

[@flock8903]

Amazing content Maximum. Having grown up playing a quite few flash games, it good to see them still living. Have you done a tutorial of how to play flash games?

[@Maximum]

I made this video a while ago but I guess it would be applicable- kzbin.info/www/bejne/fWicn5Sgl7GEaNU

[@SuperDZ555]

can't wait for another 7-way tie

[@rominkivela9351]

one of these days we're going to get an evil scientist who starts genetically modifying the world's entire monkey population in attempt to attain the best theoretically possible speedrun time in every game there is. after all, if you give a million monkeys typewriters, they'll eventually write shakespeare

[@ajomagurd]

You wouldn't need monkeys, in fact they're probably innefficient because they arent totally random. All you would need is a computer with good processing power, and a program that runs instances of a game and presses random inputs. Eventually one of those programs would be fast, but it would be extremely unlikely.

[@alvarodiazrodriguez2603]

Shakespeare %

[@wolfetteplays8894]

@@ajomagurd yeah, just orphans from third world countries. A lot smarter, and you’re giving them a stable home and food

[@leggolandthemusicman4029]

Max chose some banger tracks for this vid.

[@TheFizzster]

Good video but please normalize your volume levels when playing music. I constantly had to adjust the volume to either hear you, or not wake up my neighbors.

[@607]

I did not know there was Flash game speedrunning, but it's unsurprising! Cool video. 8:08 Weird that that took so long to find!

[@jenna1337]

Speedrunners rediscovering obscure time saves from over a decade ago that were likely forgotten because the time saves were so minuscule. Nice to see speedrunners rediscover the elephant moves faster when jumping, and button jumps again.

[@martykahuna]

The Razer Huntsman is worse for this purpose because the debounce is still quite high, even if the keyboard itself is precise. The minimum press time is ~21ms but the minimum release time before you can register another press is closer to 44ms. This causes a full press and release to make up around 65ms, or a bit less than one fifteenth of a second. This unfortunately limits the Huntsman's CPS to just over 15, an unfortunate drawback to a solid high-level platforming kb. The Huntsman v2 has been said to alleviate this issue, introducing a "gaming mode" that makes minimum presses only about 6ms (unsure on minimum releases but no reports of them being longer).

[@Maximum]

Ah, that is really great information to know, thanks!

[@KoalaBread]

pretty good video max

[@amseager]

After watching the video, I've got a feeling that the whole titol speedrun community was founded just to show lekukie's beast eventually

[@traeghniwwingyl8167]

Great video! However, a few times the music in between the sections gets really loud, like way louder than your voice

[@ryansmith9063]

volume leveling my dude

[@mickzivpetreanu3267]

Yo it's the AeonAir bgm at the end pog

[@Maximum]

I wasn't aware that Aeon uses that track; its just Jubilife City from Pokemon Diamond / Pearl. You can find a music list in the video description.

[@mickzivpetreanu3267]

@@Maximum o cool, I never knew what it was called lol, thanks!

[@GuidoHaverkort]

Thanks for adressing the elephant in the room

[@noneofyourbusiness4133]

20:54 “you get that name out your **DAMN** MOUTH!!”

[@1snivy10]

Your taste in VGM is superb, you gotta make a playlist of your faves sometime.

[@jakobr_]

I approve of the SM3DW music

[@wildbub]

I love this channel

[@iwersonsch5131]

So if the TAS saves any frame on any level, it can be carried because the gate happens to be open. What a coincidence

[@Maximum]

yes, unless enough time was saved to make the TAS a 2:14.425, maximizing the 1:50 cycle

[@latergator9622]

You know the speed running scene on a game is getting big when a specialist is called in to solve a level. That’s awesome!

[@Caveman_XD]

amazing video! i dont even speedrun and have never played any of the games you've covered, but your videos are so entertaining that i have watched them all. keep it up! PS: music between segments is a little loud?

[@tdiogo_gamer]

Great video!

[@blars7312]

Very well made video

[@zboredskilled]

Good video

[@Maximum]

glad you enjoyed!

[@NoGeometryDashSongs]

20:40 i have seen that when i have numlock locked and i try to speedrun 2048 most of inputs are not getting registered so i need to always check that i have it open

[@RandyRandomson]

that is fucking incredible

[@Phoenix42.0]

You could definitely beat Left Right March perfectly with a drum pad and drum sticks. Set up the midi to become a key press and you could even set the amount of time for each key press by setting the length of the outgoing midi. Hitting the exact tempo would be pretty easy for a good snare drummer.

[@Phoenix42.0]

Just sayin all you need is the right controller for that level, which is definitely a drum pad and drum sticks ^_^ Definitely possible for a human to beat Left Right March.

[@arieltm4925]

Th3onc is also a very famous player in the game Exoracer. He's a legend there:)

[@kiweping5]

Of all the childhood games I played I did not expect this one too not only be pushed to the limits this hard, but also to have had the best button masher in the world, use a guitar hero guitar to get optimal times on a flash game

[@thevoidwalkerbr]

I wasnt expecting that

[@Natibe_]

As an armchair biologist I would be very interested in someone doing a study on reaction times and twitch reflexes for speedrunners like this. Lekukie getting within such low margins of a perfect 20hz (which is the low end of human hearing!) mash speed is beyond insane. As a practicing computer engineer though, yeah the moment you said the TAS saved that many frames doing something THAT precise I knew damn well it wasn’t doable on a keyboard, especially with a human in the mix lmaoo

[@mickzivpetreanu3267]

Your Twitter was right :o

[@AndrewWilson-fb8ge]

this is a very good video but the audio balance between the commentary and the music only sections could be averaged out better

[@fastral7769]

I never knew that this game was so popular

[@fo-ef8qo]

"hey here's a 20 minute documentary on saving single frames of a 14 year old flash game." ---- 'oh FUCK YEA'

[@Ben-sx6ew]

Luke Saward in this video? Small world.