Why the Roman Empire Lasted 1,500 Years

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This video explores some of the factors that made the Roman Empire the most durable state in history.
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Chapters:
0:00 Introduction
1:00 The influence of geography
1:54 Opera
3:09 Geography (cont.)
3:34 Citizenship and social mobility
4:12 The emperor as symbol
5:25 The Roman army
6:05 Shared elite values
6:50 Good luck

[@toldinstone]

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[@popman48]

The Opera browser is owned by Golden Brick Silk Road Equity Investment since 2016, which in turn is 100% owned by a combination of state owned Chinese enterprises. Under Chinese law, all Chinese companies are required to provide any information demanded by the government. So, no matter what privacy protections Opera my claim to provide, all user data can be obtained by the Chinese government. So, buyer beware.

[@juanfervalencia]

Can you tell them the ad-blocker is not working on your videos?

[@cyanpunch6140]

Wouldn't the Chinese imperial system have to be considered an even more durable system of rule than Rome? Yes dynasties changed, but the imperial system remained. the consistencies of the chinese imperial system across the dynasties seem to be more significant than the differences, especially considering we don't distinguish roman imperial dynasties in this way

[@llamaalpaca5563]

Also Persia.

[@tylerellis9097]

Yeah I do not see how Rome out Competes China here. It has 1000 years over Persia though as an Empire.

[@doctorbobcat7123]

It's clear toldinstone does not have a great understanding of Chinese history. Basically all the points he made can be applied to China. Much like the Mediterranean Sea, China's vast coastline and Yellow / Yangtze Rivers made them exceptional traders. Much like the Imperial cult, Chinese philosophical ideals emphasised loyalty to the Emperor, and the continued study of Confucian classical texts helped preserve a unified elite Chinese culture for millennia. (it's also pretty unfair to lump Rome and the Byzantines as one continuous civilisation yet not do the same for the Chinese Dynasties, which would mean China both predated Rome by 100 years with the Qin unification in 206BC and outlived Rome for almost 500 years until the fall of the Qing in 1912.)

[@cyanpunch6140]

@@doctorbobcat7123 yeah, and when I came back to view these replies, the title of the video was changed to specifically refer to China. Why?

[@hueylong2590]

@@cyanpunch6140because anti-China stuff goes over well with conservative rome history entertainment viewers

[@baahcusegamer4530]

“While browsing lesser content” 😂 made my day man. I salute you 🫡

[@QuantumHistorian]

There's a special place in my heart for people who can deliver such sass with a straight face.

[@brokoblin6284]

yeah that made me atually laugh out loud, I love it

[@johnladuke6475]

@@QuantumHistorian The doc missed his calling as a comedian. He's great at being a deadpan straight man and delivering backhanded zingers.

[@tiaelago-oretukaumunika7017]

Came here looking for this hahaha

[@teampower7820]

Perfect 😀

[@cyrusrony4729]

"In a sense it never has..." absolutely epic

[@JohnVance]

I think about this a lot.

[@MrButtinger]

So do I. @@JohnVance

[@SuperCulverin]

They just keep moving their bureaucracy to new cities. I wonder where they'll go when Washington DC is no longer useful.

[@postblitz]

@@SuperCulverin Beijing.

[@cameronforbes2649]

hopefully this guy has made a lot of money off that trend . . . Interesting, when you consider that the Russian Tzars considered themselves in some ways to be a continuation of the Eastern Roman Empire (as the de facto leader of the Orthodox Christian World). Tzar from Cesar, I'm sure you knew that. . .

[@sarahd1250]

Could you please do a video on ancient sleeping habits. (Beds/ bedrooms?, pjs, hygiene, sleep schedule, waking up, etc) ❤❤

[@westrim]

Rome never died, it lives on in our hearts.

[@optimusprinceps3526]

Especially since the USA is a Constitutional Republic based upon the laws, foundations, and principles of ancient Rome.🦅 As are many other nations

[@marcoscaba3846]

We mimic Rome's style of government and much more.

[@vgee3926]

Deep.....

[@QuantumHistorian]

@@optimusprinceps3526 There are so few similarities between Roman and USA Government. Sure, they both have a thing called the Senate, but that's about it. Dig any deeper and the differences are vast in both a practical and theoretical sense.

[@optimusprinceps3526]

@@QuantumHistorian The title of President is also a Roman one, seems it was a bit more than another Roman title, Governor. In the USA the first Continental Congress at first wanted to make George Washington, Imperator for life, in which he gracefully declined. Imagine if he hadn't ?

[@Teh-Penguin]

I've recently finished your first book. One thing that surprised me, in a good way, was how funny and witty it was. Maybe the jokes on YT flew all over my head, but I had more of a classic professorial impression of you. Very to the point and factual. I really enjoyed the read!

[@kribstek1155]

Great video, but I don't know if I'm the first one to point out that the title is a bit too clickbait-y, since the case against China wasn't really discussed at all. I think the point here is that, Rome *as a single continued polity* survived for millenia (longer than any Chinese dynasty), which I should agree. But we can also make the counter-argument that, some other aspects of ancient Chinese institutions* (or their direct descendants) survived to these days (longer than ancient Roman ones) and are still being actively practiced. *How “ancient”? -- around and after Confucius’ lifetime (c.551 - c.479 BC) -- around and before the reign of the Qin dynasty (221-206 BC), China's first unified empire To suggest some from my head: 1) the Chinese script [“traditional characters” nowadays] 2) classical Chinese languages and literature (their lore are deeply ingrained into and inseparable from modern Chinese languages, e.g. Mandarin & Cantonese) 3) political & intellectual philosophies, e.g. Confucianism, Taosim, Legalism 4) *the commonly imagined (albeit often disrupted) unity of the territorial/political/socio-cultural country “China”* For instance, the works of Confucius are literally older than the Christians’ Bible or the Muslims’ Quran, but quotations from them are still being read & studied (& hated) by school kids of modern China (& other Sinic countries). **EDIT: as a student of history from greater China, I must confess I haven't learn much about Roman history (yet). But I can give more examples about what I mean by the crazy longevity of ancient Chinese literature: - Quote a random passage (in it's original text) from Confucius; an average 16-y/o school kid can probably understand 40-80% of it. - From that text, you can find many, many words that are literally still being used daily. I really don't think you can find comparable examples for ancient Rome; i.e. I don't think an average (say,) Italian can read any Cicero in its original form. (🤔🤔I really don't know, maybe they can??)

[@aldrinmilespartosa1578]

Aren't the ones being mentioned too has its Roman counterparts? Especially the language and legal practice to it. Justinian's legal reforms are still the foundations for most Western spheres and more.

[@joerogue231]

​@@aldrinmilespartosa1578There's no argument that Roma is older than China. Rome has been under foreign conquest most of the time.

[@aldrinmilespartosa1578]

@joerogue231 so.. does China. China is the oldest surviving civilization Rome is the oldest empire to be recorded.

[@joerogue231]

@@aldrinmilespartosa1578 Rome isn't anywhere near the oldest Empire lol.

[@aldrinmilespartosa1578]

@joerogue231 not counting the "byzantine" that is.

[@networknomad5600]

"Fish sauce from Spain" Sir, do you mean the highest grade of garum?

[@GnomaPhobic]

But of course. All know that Hispania produces the finest garum of all provinces in the empire!

[@AethelwulfBretwalda]

I've been a subscriber for a few years now and I'm glad you're getting more recognition and success. Thank you for such an awesome channel, keep up the great work!

[@GenovaYork951]

*you.

[@chrissypoo69]

This is gonna be one of those vids that gets you more subs than anticipated

[@11202]

There’s a certain quality that while in all his videos is especially prominent here. Gives off a strong golden era of digital encyclopaedia / history channel (back when it was exactly that)

[@_SpamMe]

When posing such a question we must first ask "did Rome actually last longer than China", and that's a very hard question to answer. By most metrics though I'd say "no". I think this video would have been better as just "why was the Roman Empire so durable/lastet so long" or something.

[@jeffreywilliams3421]

I feel like if we treated the Roman Empire like any other empire it wouldn't have "lasted" so long, for example, you'd have a split between the early Kingdom, the Republic and the Empire, splits between various imperial dynasties, splits for the later German emperors, etc. If we judged, for example, Persia like we judged Rome you'd have a much longer standing empire there. Or Egypt as another example, where the priesthood provided the same kind of bureaucratic, political, and cultural through line similar to the roman aristocracy, if judged by the standards we judge Rome would absolutely blow Rome out of the water, but we instead split it up into numerous phases, etc.

[@arthurg.calixto3338]

Even if unified Rome doesn't overlast China, Egypt or Persia at all imagine if we simply separated them by Republic and Empire 😂

[@richardparker7121]

Yes but if you were Rome-centric & wanting a clickbait title, why not diss the Chinese (for the millionth time)…?

[@guifdcanalli]

Actually no, Persia was conquered many times during its existance, if a foreign force conquers your nation, its by all means a foreign rule and the native state is dissolved, Alexander conquered Persia in the 4th century bc and then the Hellenistic dinasties that succeded were not Persians at all, Rome kept their sovereignty all the way to the 13th century, with same laws, rulling systems and culture

[@Calikid331]

In a cultural sense the Roman Empire still very much exists.

[@beezusHrist]

I don't know what this means considering "China" is still around and still, in some ways, celebrates its past culture. Italy is still there, but the civilization known as Rome is gone, but the civilization known as "China" still exist and has been going strong for at least 5,000 years. Yes. the governmental system has changed, but the Chinese Civilization area still exists.

[@brandonquezada9523]

The imperial system basically ended in 1912 though

[@Patrick3183]

China is our word for it

[@rain_M4V7]

The true Chinese died out a long time ago

[@AngkatanNamwaran]

@@brandonquezada9523 Yes, but it is still the same civilization, they just simply changed their political system.

[@optimusprinceps3526]

Another wonderful trip through time, thanks for the memories....... 👍🌿🙂🌿

[@Eandiil]

Told in Stone is an awesome channel! Love their video’s. Also love the Roman history video’s from Saving History. My 2 favorite ancient history channels

[@Ghiyath981]

The echo chamber of the Romaboos.

[@dantesarracino]

I would love to know your sources. You have such beautifully curated videos, they would provide great jumping-off points for additional research.

[@jec1ny]

Great video. But FWIW I gave a thumbs up right after reading the title and realizing that you were including the Eastern (Byzantine) state in your definition of the Roman Empire.

[@Basileus1453]

Anything else is western lies

[@vcolin]

Mate love the content. Keep it up :)

[@Atomhaz]

I just got your book in the mail! Great stuff!

[@kuukeli]

thank you for the video

[@simonvito3027]

Camping in beautiful places and doing long routes that are necessary that hard is a nice way to spend a weekend.

[@mikerichards5610]

Thanks!

[@ricardomachado6718]

Thabk you for your work!!

[@JC-oz6xn]

Beautifully written.....thanks....

[@XxTheMoBSteRxX1]

Just listened to the history of rome podcast and am currently listening to the history of the byzantines as well, and was having this same thought. Luck definitely was a factor thinking back 😂

[@kingjoe3rd]

¡Hooray new Toldinstone! Do more videos on coins. I love Classical Numismatics, but he sometimes gets facts incorrect. God love him though :)

[@TrevorwiththreeVs]

Kinda feel china is historys most durable empire

[@ddwkc]

It depends on how you count continuity. If you count each dynasty change as one empire because they kept the Mandate of Heaven institutions, overall yeah. China only had some periods of fragmentation. Early 2 dynasties lasted very long time. After that, dynasties would be short lived in comparison, but the institutions would be left relatively intact. Even with foreigner control, usually it is still recognizable as China. However, if people count as each dynastic period being distinct, then China after the first two dynasties just look like it breaks and reforms a lot. People usually don't see Rome this way in terms of dynasty, so it feels like a long continuum even when their dynasties or generals/dictators fall. It is just a vast different system in the end. I'd say China is a contender. In terms of dynasty continuity, Zhou last 790 years. I don't see any Roman dynasty come close to this. Also, Roman Empire people will count Republican period till Byzantine. Some may add HRE and Ottoman Empire. In this case, it would be fair to count China since the Xia period till Qing.

[@TrevorwiththreeVs]

I count it like this China is still china And hasnt been anything else

[@despicabletaylor4079]

Thanks to toldinstone for uploading this video

[@Auriorium]

I have two questions about Ancient Rome, I hope you can answer. The first one is regarding coins specifically if during the Roman times some coins where more expensive because they where old. Lets presume I want to buy something in the Rome of Marcus Aurelius with a sesterce but my coin is from the time of Sula. Is that coin more valuable then the current one? The second question is about the Second Punic War, I am interested if there are find of Hannibal's crossing of the alps. Are there any dead Carthaginians popping out of the snow in the Alps?

[@CAESAR_IS_GOD_mohammadisaloser]

Just came across this "Priene Calendar Inscription" seems interesting. The documents align the provincial calendar with the Roman calendar, honouring Augustus by making the provincial year begin on his birthday. It refers to Augustus' birth using the term "gospel."

[@richardzimmermann9372]

Very, very good.

[@jonathanlewis8018]

The Chinese Empire lasted from 1600 BC- 1911 AD ( over 3511 years). The Roman Empire lasted 2153 years. The Chinese Empire lasted longer for almost a thousand years.

[@Mbrace818]

China wasn't a single empire from 1600 BC to 1911 AD. It was a series of distinct rising and falling empires, none of which individually lasted as long as Rome. This is why its important to make a distinction between a civilization and an empire. Chinese civilization lasted longer than Roman civilization, but no particular Chinese empire lasted longer than Rome.

[@bruhhda_mancakes3953]

@@Mbrace818 the 2153 year number is the most generous number for Rome that can be taken seriously. It includes the Roman kingdom, republic, empire, and the later Byzantine empire. The Rome at the end was vastly different than the Rome at the beginning in terms of a wide variety of variables. On the other hand, the Chinese imperial system existed virtually unchanged throughout the entire timespan. If you want to separate each major dynasty as a separate empire, then logically you’d have to do the same for Rome.

[@game_boyd1644]

It's a shame you didn't mention anything about why individual Chinese dynasties never lasted as long as Rome, as the title would suggest. Cool video though 👍🏾

[@baneofbanes]

Tbf over its course the Roman Empire had multiple dynasties as well.

[@Trill-Is-Real]

@@baneofbanesnot the same thing at all, he is not talking about dynasties ruling one empiree he is saying entire empires being created because of a new dynasty

[@I_Am_Wasabi_Man]

did he change the title of the video? i know he mentioned china at the start, but the title doesn't mention china (anymore)

[@Trill-Is-Real]

@@I_Am_Wasabi_Man yeah he changed, it it was why Rome lasted longer than China

[@RunD.Ones1s]

Trade is still more efficient over water

[@pogd740]

the city of rome is still thriving, and the culture and language of the romans is now at the forefront of humanity. amazing

[@WagesOfDestruction]

The puzzle, in comparison to China, is that after each fall, it pulled itself together.

[@Nonamearisto]

For those who think "China" was one continuous empire with different "dynasties", this is wrong. Each "dynasty" means "a completely different empire." It would be like saying that there was one continuous state in Italy since the Roman conquest of Italy, and that subsequent local or foreign rulers were simply different dynasties. If that's too hard to grasp, a "dynasty" in the normal sense means "a ruling family." The way they use it to describe Chinese history means "a different state."

[@Trill-Is-Real]

No it wasn’t lol, china is a civilization, not just a country, the ruler of china had to follow a civilizational mandate called the Mandate of Heaven to have legitimacy. Thesis who became the rulers were called son’s of Heaven, because they brought peace and prosperity to china. When they couldn’t that’s when someone new would rise up and over throw them. It wasn’t just a collapse like Rome because the Chinese never lost their identity unlike the Italians and the Greeks.

[@Nonamearisto]

@@Trill-Is-Real China is part of East Asian civilization, and is a model for it. China is not a civilization unto itself.

[@Carlton-B]

There is a lot of divergence in the comments about when Rome actually ended. Everyone has a good point. I propose three endpoints that haven't been mentioned yet: The Gothic War of the 540s, when the great Roman families were slaughtered by the Goths; the Fourth Crusade of 1204, when Constantinople was sacked by Crusaders; and the submission of Trebizond to the Ottomans in 1461. If the Russians can be believed, the Roman Empire still exists, and its capitol is Moscow.

[@negativezero8174]

I mean you can't measure the life of civilizations like that. If the Byzantine Empire was truly Roman, then modern France is truly Gaul. At some point you have to admit when a culture is something else entirely.

[@copperlemon1]

I think it would be fair to say that at some point the Eastern Roman Empire ceased to be the Roman Empire and instead a Roman rump state or successor state. It was certainly a process rather than a single event, but if a date had to picked, 1204 would probably be the finalization of that process. In the west, the Gothic wars certainly had more of an impact than the deposition of Romulus Augustus. Odoacer and Theoderic either didn't interfere with or outright promoted Roman customs, generally speaking. The wars, the plague, and finally the Lombard invasion led to heavy deurbanization and decentralization.

[@tryfryingmikejones]

sure also charlemagne, holy roman empire, the vatican, habsburgs etc

[@xa-12musk8]

If Russia was ever a successor to Rome then I'm Julius Caesar😂

[@manwiththeredface7821]

The king of Spain has better claim to be Roman Emperor.

[@leeborocz-johnson1649]

Sometimes this man's voice and everything about his delivery reminds me of Ron Howard narrating Arrested Development.

[@chumleyk]

in 5000 years, if humans are still around, we will be seen as still part of the roman era - they'd call us now as something like the 'late Roman franchise'. Only when ALL economic, cultural, religious, aesthetic, architectural, social, legislative, and legal vestiges of Rome have gone can the future historians say we aren't that any more. And its shadow - positive and negative - has shaped everyone on this earth by its derivative effects more than any other civilization on earth by a magnitude.

[@fakeskyler2305]

Rome may live on in many abstract ir philosophical ways, but China is still here. Still a nation, still powerful, and a direct continuation of that same civilization founded all those thousands of years ago. The Empire is not the nation, and even with all that aside the Chinese Imperial system was born before the Romans, and lasted centuries afterwards.

[@AnimatedHistory90]

Constantinos Palaiologos the last Roman emperor died in 1453

[@optimusprinceps3526]

Si

[@Ghiyath981]

Byzantine

[@TheLastTocharian]

Ναι.

[@Flastyune]

Where is the comparison to China? Most of the arguments for Rome's longevity work for China, and if you consider the byzantines to be romans, I don't see any reasons to not treat the different chinese dynasties and the same chinese empire.

[@tereza1959]

Considering almost everything in our lives has origins in rome, from politics to cuisine, Rome will never die

[@jona.scholt4362]

The real Rome was the friends we made along the way.

[@LCTesla]

it wasn't an empire by 200BC, and it wasn't Rome by 1200AD.

[@CosmicMapping]

Uh, I don’t know about this one. I don’t think there’s any Roman takeout places I can just DoorDash whenever I want.

[@Trill-Is-Real]

Exactly, the Chinese, still see them selves as Chinese and everyone call the CCCP government territory, china. Rome is gone and it only lives through the west

[@IsengardMordor]

@toldinstone chances are you might not see this, but would you consider making a video about piracy in the Roman era?

[@jessehickman668]

With so much clickbait and title questions… I appreciate anyone who answers the question first. 👍

[@nicholasdalby5178]

My main point of contention here is the date 1453 used to mark the end of Rome. If we use those parameters, China never stopped lol it just evolved. what about the Latin Empire? That was a clear point where the legit Byzantines lost control of Constantinople and only had a few principalities they terms empires and such 0:32

[@revanofkorriban1505]

You ignore the fact that the professional army led to a significant problem of civil wars, as soldiers demanded more and more money, forcing emperors to divert money from state projects of greater importance at best, and at worst ambitious generals bribing the military into backing their coups.

[@ddc2957]

Luck is right. I am big into the Napoleonic Wars & my mate, a huge Roman fan, likes to brag about “1,000 year Empire vs a 10 year one.” But how would Rome have fared if full-powered versions of Carthage, Greece, Etruria, Egypt etc regularly formed coalitions to challenge the Empire?

[@GHST995]

For the Empire!

[@derrickstorm6976]

"In a sense it never has" *thinks of Mussolini*

[@1TakoyakiStore]

A question I've always had is why did Latin die as an everyday language while Greek endured. Both existed at roughly the same time, by similar people, in similar ways. I know Greek was the language of commerce at the time, but is that really all there is to it?

[@tylerellis9097]

Because Latin evolved more due to being separated and split up into numerous Kingdoms. Meanwhile Greek has almost always been under one state with strong Academic institutions or had its historical regions taken by other groups like in Anatolia.

[@1TakoyakiStore]

@@tylerellis9097 The Byzantines were conquered by the Ottomans. The Ottomans were primarily an arabic speaking country which left roughly 400 years to be assimilated. Normally once an area is conquered by arabs the language disappears (only exceptions that comes to mind is Coptic and Hebrew). On top of that the topography of Macedonia favors small city states rather than an overarching power. Ok fine let's assume that it was kept alive in Istanbul as a language for the academics, that still should have relegated it to a similar position as latin during the Renaissance. So unless modern Greek is much more different than the Greek Homer would have spoken (equally as different if not more so than modern Sardinian is to the Latin of the ancient Romans) I still cannot conceive of a significant reason as to why it endured more than Latin.

[@tylerellis9097]

@@1TakoyakiStore Bruh, the Ottomans were a Turkish Empire that also used Persianized Turkish as a court language. And none of the Balkan territory they conquered was converted to Turkish Speaking, Anatolia was mostly converted already by Turkish migrations before them and still had significant Greek, Armenian, Assyrian and Georgian minorities with many Greek, Albanian and Slavic elites in government until the Genocides, population exchanges and sponsored Ultra state nationalism of modern Turkey. You cannot compare them to the Arab Caliphates and their successors that had 1200 years with interruptions to this day to convert the people of the middle east and Africa. Heck Iranians still speak Persian after all this time do to being able to maintain their culture under the Arabs and Persianizing the conquering turks but even then they have a significant minority of Turkish speaking Converted Persians in the northwest from 1000 years of Turkish rule.

[@1TakoyakiStore]

@@tylerellis9097 Is the difference between Koine Greek and modern Greek more or less different than Vulgar Latin is to Neo-Latin?

[@GenovaYork951]

​@@tylerellis9097 There were no significant Armenians, Georgians, Assyrians lmao in Anatolia.

[@Nonamearisto]

For those who don't get it, there was one continuous Roman Empire from about 14 BC with Augustus to 1453 with the fall of Constantinople. The Eastern Roman Empire wasn't legally a new country, simply the (often reorganized) provinces of the Roman Empire being overseen from an eastern court.

[@free_at_last8141]

I'm surprised that the Romans didn't find another use for discarded amphorae. They seem like something that would have been crushed to be used used in roads and construction.

[@lipingrahman6648]

To be clear though for last half of Eastern Roman history it was just a bunch of small territories barely held together. Smaller than many feudal kingdoms, not much of an empire. Constantinople May have fallen in 1453 but the empire had been dead for some time.

[@Michael_the_Drunkard]

1204 was the real fall

[@tylerellis9097]

It was still a Regional often Great Power Empire until 1204AD.

[@kartos.]

What are we defining an empire as here??

[@nicholasdalby5178]

Another thing, some would argue the Yuan Dynasty, even the Great Jin of Jurchen origin do not represent a continuation of imperial China, but this is not the case. The way the Ming Dynasty became such is by claiming the MANDATE OF HEAVAN from the Mongol Yuan after Khanbaliq-now Beijing was evacuated by the Emperor. Thus we get Hongwu the Great

[@robinharwood5044]

China is still there, with pretty much the same territory, and still pretty Confucian.

[@MrStrocube]

“The Empire never ended.” -PKD

[@marcneef795]

Saying the mediterranean is like a modern superhighway is a bit misleading, when most global trade still happens via sea, today

[@theamericancristero7390]

The three most important cities in western history in terms of their influence and legacy are without a doubt Jerusalem for the risen messiah, Athens for it's philosophy, and Rome for it's establishment of the idea of a nation beyond tribe, race, or locality. Between Christian ethics, Greek intellect, and Roman grandeur, it is no wonder why western civilization dominates the world.

[@Michael_the_Drunkard]

The idea that Rome was raceblind has been debunked. And in the last days of both the western and eastern empire, it was reduced to its heartland. Italy in the West and Greece in the East.

[@marcoscaba3846]

I would love to see a comparison of Rome and China.

[@pedrollex3308]

China = yellow

[@jmgonzales7701]

rome was greater than china

[@marcoscaba3846]

@@jmgonzales7701 Maybe.

[@Lord_Of_Aether]

​@@jmgonzales7701It depends on the era and what measure of greatness you're going by. For example, the Eastern Romans were in a weak state around the same time that the Tang Dynasty had reached its height.

[@Ghiyath981]

​@jmgonzales7701 When you learnt history at Walmart.

[@bruhhda_mancakes3953]

the city of rome was founded around 753 BCE and the byzantine empire fell in 1453 CE, giving "rome" a lifespan of 2206 years. the chinese imperial system began with the founding of the xia dynasty around 2070 BCE and fell in 1912 with the emperor's abdication, giving the chinese imperial system a lifespan of 3982 years. it doesnt take a math degree to know that 3982 is a bigger number than 2206

[@jyc313]

if u base the two civilizations off of pure math, you are so simple-minded in regards to history of both, that you should exit this thread and go study more.

[@bruhhda_mancakes3953]

@@jyc313 this isn’t even a matter of understanding both civilizations at a deeper level. It’s a matter of which one lasted longer. Answering that question is something that cannot be done without math, and the 2nd grade level math at play here does not favor the Romans over the Chinese imperial system.

[@jyc313]

If you want to understand the matter, you have to first understand both civilization's cadence, progress of rule, fall, and dynastic changes. Simple math gives you the "lasted longer" only when you look at both as a civilization. The video states "empire". Rome as a society and civilization existed before it even became an "empire". And for some, China isn't considered one string of empire rule because of the way its civilization progressed. The debate people are having on this thread exists because it's not as simple as just saying "Ancient China lasted longer than Rome". If you stick to just the second grade math you speak of, then your understanding of the complexity surrounding topic also is about the 2nd grade level. @@bruhhda_mancakes3953

[@jacobpast5437]

Modern historians are the kind of people, who if you show them a morphing video of a chair turning into a bench turning into a bed will then claim that a chair is a bed

[@arthurg.calixto3338]

To this guy the European theatre of WW2 was just a roman civil war.

[@joerogue231]

​@@arthurg.calixto3338 That's because Westerners don't want to admit that China was vastly greater than Rome. They are constantly swimming in double standards and hypocrisy.

[@aldrinmilespartosa1578]

The Theodocian walls though has fallen in the end might have been one of the best government investment in human history.

[@RobMacMusic]

Imagine having ancient history in your own civilisation. It's like looking back at Washington times 4. The relics that some families must have had would have been fascinating.

[@christopherevans2445]

Shout out to Julius Nepos. The true last (Western Emperor).

[@GnomaPhobic]

I always enjoy seeing articles - primarily written by women - flabbergasted by the seeming ubiquity of men's love for Ancient Rome.

[@Ghiyath981]

Manchild.

[@Ghiyath981]

Manchild energy.

[@I_Am_Wasabi_Man]

where are you going to read these articles? tf do you do in your free time?

[@kevintc-r7069]

5:33 i live in the us and holy shit does this sound similar

[@Jazmillenium]

Rome never dies. It just went missing in action.

[@Tonyx.yt.]

Where is Rome? Point at central Italy Where is Constantinople? Point at the Bosporus Where is the Roman Empire? Point at the Heart

[@SithStudy]

Chinese civilization was always disconnected from all others though, this makes it way easier to think of it as one dynasty

[@shinsenshogun900]

This video is unequivocally stamped as laowai rants

[@17269320]

Another fact why Roman rule survived for so long: The wise use of engineering and technology for public works. Foreigners saw Roman culture and public management as superior and wanted to imitate it, even to the point of being voluntarily absorbed by it. Baths, aqueducts, roads, bridges, ports, giant amphitheatres and magnificent cities mesmerized anyone who came from wilder lands so Rome was the synonym for progress and perfectionism. But maybe that also draw the attention from sacking armies and waves of immigration, so it's like a two sided coin.

[@juannumbaone9142]

They adapted to the changes ; but at the end this is what brought their downfall as well

[@theprotector1234567]

Great civilizations never truly die, they just fade away

[@maily8388]

Actually, it died/gone but it left many monuments and statues for humanity to see.

[@Elongated_Muskrat]

Depends what qualifies as “Roman Empire” The Holy Roman Empire lasted til past 1800 but few people would call that the end of the Roman Empire. I suppose in the West, Rome is just the default concept of Empire so everyone tried to emulate it.

[@Deadj90]

Rome fell in 1453, the HRE shouldn’t even be considered.

[@Tonyx.yt.]

The forefather of the roman empire was so chad, that his name become litteraly the title of the emperors of many different empires and kingdoms for the 2000 years to come. Ave Kai-sar

[@jamesclarke2789]

@@Tonyx.yt. Or Tsar/Czar

[@Herkittyandhislady04072005]

The Holy Roman Empire wasn't holy, neither roman and neither an empire. It's obvious, since the "Holy" part is contradicted by the Protestant Reformation and the only Holy thing that they were connected to were the Pope. The "Roman" is non-existant as none spoke Latin, only few in the Southern HRE (north italy) and what defies a roman is the people being citizens of a Roman Administration and Government, which HRE did not have as they were germans and they had no government as the Emperor title was given to the most voted country there(king/prince) in the HRE, and finally, the "Empire" is straight up a lie, its not even a formalized united state and the states within the HRE was ruled by the elected Prince/Duke/King. + The HRE proclaimed themselves to be THE SUCCESSORS of the Roman Empire, not the Roman Empire themselves. In reality, the TRUE Roman Empire ended in 1453 with the Fall of Constantinopole, if you wanna argue for others taking the position as successors of rome, sure, but they were never rome and never intended to bring back the empire, unlike the eastern romans.

[@Ghiyath981]

​@@Herkittyandhislady04072005 Rome ended in 395 not 1453 lmao, learn history.

[@lenrely2033]

You may have answered this in another video, but Congressman Ron Paul in his famous "Paul vs. Paul" debate with economist Paul Krugmann claimed that the reason the Byzantine Empire outlasted the Romans by so long is currency was not taxed. Is that true?

[@daniell1483]

Rome was in the right place, at the right time, with the right people. Looking at its history, it is easy to understand why the Romans thought fate itself was on their side. It sure looks from the outside looking in that the stars themselves aligned for Rome.

[@ElvingsMusings]

ROMEABOOS AND THEIR CREATIVE INTERPRETATION OF FACTS.I think it takes a very generous interpretation of 'Roman Empire' to claim it lasted 1500 Years when it didn't last those 1500 years as any single contiguous entity for the majority. -- The Roman Empire, defined as originating from the conquest of the Mediterranean (i.e. Greece, Hispania, North Africa) dates to about 146 BCE and that lasted till 450s CE, so some 600 years. Which is impressive for sure, but all things considered it's in the general ballpark. -- The Eastern Roman Empire/Byzantine Empire being framed as essentially the same as the classical Roman empire and not a significantly reduced wing with territories permanently lost is wishful thinking rightly demolished by Adrian Goldsworthy. If it originated from the founding of Constantinople it lasted from 330 CE to 1204 CE as a single continuous entry, albeit it lost permanently territories in Egypt, Levant, Anatolia by then already. Pockets in Trebizond recovered the state which limped till the Ottomans put it out of a misery (in what was essentially a foregone conclusion). The Roman Empire seen clearly isn't an example for longevity at all.

[@thomasechols8834]

Sure wish your videos were longer. but I guess the algorithm does not favor those.

[@Fabermain]

the empire never fell. it morphed.

[@kerryrwalton7791]

I would also argue that the Pope and his Curia are not only the inheritors but the last living link of many of the Roman Empire's rituals.

[@tylerellis9097]

Cough Ecumenical Patriarch too

[@themetroidprime]

It never has. Everything Rome was still lives in every western country to various degrees.

[@Benjaminwolf]

Just a note: Even today, water transportation is cheaper for shipping.

[@davidemelia6296]

Why do Romeaboos always think that Rome was just the absolute greatest, and that no other civilisation equalled it?

[@frustis]

China is still around. Rome isn't. Italy is, but modern Italy is not a direct continuation of Rome. If we consider both the Roman Republic and Roman Empire as Rome, then China is still standing.

[@SithStudy]

The current maoist regime is not remotely related to the dynasties of the ancient world 😂

[@frustis]

@@SithStudy Oh yes it is, not just remotely, but very closely. Like I said, it's a direct continuation of the dynasties that lasted until last century. Nothing about the old world. China had a direct dynastic lineage from 3000 years ago up until 1912. And then it was taken over by Chinese republicans. If Rome can con from monarchy to republic to empire and still be Rome, China is still China to this day.

[@SithStudy]

@@frustis fair point, but what about when the Mongols conquered all of China? That means the ancient lineage ends there right?

[@frustis]

@@SithStudy That is a very good point and one I raised to several of my Chinese friends too. I don't have any personal opinion on the matter, but I'll give you theirs. The reasoning goes that while *the north* of China became a part of the Mongol empire in the early 1200's, and the south decades later, the empire soon became fragmented, and Kublai Khan (one of Ghenghis' sons) took over the China + Mongolia part of the empire (which was no longer a single empire), adopting Chinese customs and renaming it Yuan. He took on Chinese names, language, clothing, and such. So modern Chinese historians do consider the interim period between as a conquest, but afterwards it's considered to be a dynasty led by a non-han ethnicity (much like the Qing dynasty, who were manchus), because that is how in fact the emperor pretended it to be. And then, after the Yuan, in some one hundred years, the Ming dynasty began, and so the dynastic lineage continued.

[@sagitarriulus9773]

I wouldn’t say it lasted 1500 years since the empire itself changed I’d say it’s more like Roman culture survived 1500 years

[@reeyees50]

It was just because of its military, and fell TWICE because of his military, or lack thereof

[@Carlo-zk2cy]

“For there was once a dream, a dream of Rome”

[@fozzymandias]

"lesser content" love it

[@SteaksOnSpear]

Denmark always gets overlooked as one of the oldest countries in the world.

[@Squirrelmind66]

Geography also explains in general how Europe became so powerful. It’s all coastline.

[@jmgonzales7701]

yes its because of geography, trade and European intelligence the reason europe became the greatest civilization of the world.

[@S3Kglitches]

@@jmgonzales7701 And will fall with the rise of Africa.

[@jmgonzales7701]

@@S3Kglitches africa? They have too many problems for it to make a rise. Tbh i think it might be somewhere in asia.

[@CrazyChickenFarmer]

@@S3Kglitches If there were no more food handouts in africa the continent would go back to where it was, for a while at least.

[@S3Kglitches]

@@jmgonzales7701 It doesn't require an army or any organization. They simply wander here and invade by birth and rape. Can't you see?

[@professorsogol5824]

Indeed, to this day, ships remain the most cost efficient way to distribute goods and resources around the world. I once read it costs more to get a bottle of Bordeaux across the dock in New York than it does to move it from France to North America by ship.

[@Fronzel41]

Sounds like taxes. That's cheating.

[@professorsogol5824]

@@Fronzel41 Actually taxes might make a good way to define a nation state: Is there a central office that handles the accounting necessary to collect taxes and allocate the revenue? Our earliest written records are in fact accounting documents so our knowledge of the earliest empires depends on the bean counters.

[@Fronzel41]

@@professorsogol5824 The Roman Empire was definitely not a nation.

[@neonity4294]

Yeah, because we have giant floating warehouses with the capacity of 20.000 TEU now. Of course your shipping costs per bottle is almost cero if you're able to ship millions of them.

[@professorsogol5824]

@@neonity4294 I think you miss the point. It makes no difference if you send one case or a hundred cases, the cost per bottle from France to North America, 5,500 km, is a few cents on the bottle. To move those same bottles from from the dock in New York to the shop in New York by truck (10s of kms) is easily twice the cost (per bottle) of getting them across the Atlantic. So yes, the greater carrying capacity of ships both in the era of imperial Rome and now makes loading stuff onto a ship and shipping it much more cost effective than loading it onto 500 horses or a diesel powered 500 horse power truck.

[@williammobley2110]

The Founding Fathers modeled our Republic on the Roman Republic. They wrote the Constitution at at time of historic debt, historic inflation, and insurrections, and this was after surviving the American War for Independence. They thought about the question of succession, about successive generations degenerating because of the success of their fathers, and how civil wars settled disputes. They came up with our system. The constitution was made for hard times. It was written in harder times. Revolution and rebirth, once we declare independence from the Anglo-American Empire, based out of the City of London.

[@Doomer_Optimist]

No one cares.

[@williammobley2110]

I'm optimist about our financial doom and rebirth.@@Doomer_Optimist