Why THIS *NEEDS TO BE BANNED* in Monster Hunter Wilds Speedruns!!!

[@LordViettner]

Fun drinking game for those who are of age: take a shot every time I say "technically" or "theoretically" xD - For more info on the Sunbreak leaderboards and rules, check out this link: www.mhrspeedrun.com/en/sbfree/about/submit/ - For full transparency on speedrun mods I've used, check the description! Also, just wanted to clarify, in case I wasn't clear enough in my video: I'm not campaigning for anyone who mods the game to be banned from the game, I just think that any modifications or manipulations to the game shouldn't be allowed in Official Speedruns that are submitted to the Leaderboard. If you want to mod layered skins or big butts or play the ICE mod, you should totally be allowed to with no consequence (see 1:46)! Mods are good for the game and add to longevity and replayability (think of how long Skyrim's been going for). Hopefully this helps, happy hunting :D

[@bboy458]

you tryin to get us saucy

[@luissalinas9143]

Guess I better save this to my watch later list when I get back from work 😂

[@LordViettner]

@@bboy458 i'll do it tonight, too, after work, so that way i walk the walk xD no hypocrisy here

[@nicholasmarquez3399]

The mods I want is those gold crown mods

[@alesztra937]

I think the best solution is as you say that any modding should be completely banned from speedrunning leaderboards. Or else there should be created modded categories, instead of an abundance of rules and exceptions. As a mainly PC player, although with hundreds of hours on PS4, I've used a lot of cosmetic mods in the past. I really enjoy that freedom for PC, but currently I don't use any mods at all. Definitely not a needed feature by any means, but it does give PC a charm that console doesn't have. I think modding is completely fine as long as it doesn't affect other players' experience. This counts for speedrunning leaderboards as well, since they're "other players".

[@LordViettner]

Exactly, the games are still 10/10 without mods. I love visual mods, too, I have tons of sick weapon and armor skins. Just seems, though, if you're really serious about uploading speedruns, you should be okay with just shutting them off while you grind! the problem with the modded sub-categories is again you run into all the complications of people uploading modded runs as normal runs, then if they get caught they're just like "oops meant to tag it as modded" or something. you have to make it black and white/right and wrong so there's no doubts or personal interpretations as to why a run was allowed/disallowed (in my opinion) thanks for the comment :D

[@alesztra937]

@@LordViettner that's completely true. It's very difficult thing to monitor, so the best would honestly just be to ban modding as a whole from competitive speedrunning.

[@LordViettner]

@@alesztra937 It's impossible to totally fix the cheating problem in the game (people can always hide 3rd part software and other subsurface mods), but I feel like this is a step in a good direction. It might not be the 'best' solution for everyone, but it's a change that should happen

[@alesztra937]

@@LordViettner completely agree.

[@bludclot]

Something they could do if the files don't pass, a banner along the bottom that says "modded". Though, that could be modded out. 😜 It sucks because companies have to go to great lengths to stop cheaters, then we're the ones who have to suffer because there is another layer of bloat you have to run on your systems for anti-cheat.

[@damnson4637]

I think the same abt it, if u wanna do speedruns u should not mod anything on your speedrun account not even materials decos etc

[@alesztra937]

Very understandable opinion. It's like the discussion for competitive Pokémon, where players are technically allowed to cheat their pokémon to have the perfect IV's etc, instead of having to grind hours to achieve it.

[@thefinalskarm1754]

impossible to tell with mats or decos

[@thirdyqwerty3954]

yeah, i felt betrayed after a speedrunner i followed was modding is run all this time and denied any malicious intent but the asshole sumitted his run officialy without declaring any mods or alterations installed, only admtieed when he got cought. now its kinda hard to believe if other speed runners are legit after he said thre were others like him.

[@LordViettner]

yeah, it puts a big stain on all runners, unfortunately. That's why transparency is big. TDS have been huge for this, as they've always been open and honest about anything they've used in their runs (like not farming for a billion hours for Brutal Strike RNG and instead just giving it 100% activation). They're doing great work over there, and the community would benefit from full transparency!

[@Tech_D3mon]

​​​​@@LordViettner Ironically Peppo left a while back because of a modded run. People got on him so much for it and brought it up to the rest of the team and they just didn't defend him. Yet, the mods were in the description of the video the entire time... He was never trying to put it on record he was just doing it for a video, on his personal channel might I add, and was open about it from the get-go. Yet people freaked anyway. I always found that super lame that TDS rather than defending him they just threw him under the bus...

[@thirdyqwerty3954]

@@LordViettner TDS is peak transparency , I'm excited for there speed run on wild. Yeah like when they moved from switch to PC Since no cross over they had to mod charms , which they admitted from start

[@thirdyqwerty3954]

@@Tech_D3mon wooah, I didn't know there was a drama, I knew he left TDS, didn't know the reason though...

[@Tech_D3mon]

@@thirdyqwerty3954 yeah apparently behavior similar to this was happening a lot during his time there, but that was the tipping point

[@svenstevenson2245]

Oh man, heard you open with " any modding on PC needs to be banned..." then the rest of the sentance "... from the speed running leader boards" Yes, totally agree. P.S. love to mod games, among the main reasons I am a PC pureist these a days TBH.

[@nonenoninomae]

I ALSO GOT SCARED AND I DON'T EVEN MOD.

[@sergiobejaranoolivera1396]

Agreed too. I would still allow some mods tho, just the streamer or the person submitting the speedrun would have to show the game's folder or the mods they have. This isn't because visual mods, but because of performance mods (for example a mod in World that removes the rock effects upon hitting a monster, it saves like 20 fps when playing with dual blades), or things like reducing the effects quantity like the ones for rise

[@pipthedragonite6502]

To be fair. The only mods I use is cosmetics. I made my partners little rascals, I made Minito and Hinoa into actual wyverns and gave my character ears and tail with a coil. I mean aside from the hud to see how much health a monster has and how much I should target it’s parts before laying waste to it and it’s resources, (for self improvement) I don’t really use other mods to "effect the gameplay".

[@62mag62]

I dont understand why this needed to be a video to be honest. Is modding for some weird reason not banned? Can I download a mod on the nexus for one of the "god weapons" that do insane damage to one shot Fatalis and get a WR fatty slay right now? Like.... what? Also, love mods myself, across all kinds of games. Used to fuck around with an Action Replay for GBA back in the day growing up, but quickly learned that "God Mode" runs its fun out very fast. Only game I really do that heavily in now is whenever I jump into GTA online. That place is so horrible, you cant really have fun without another modder teleporting to you in the middle of a mission and killing you, so I have protection mods to fight against the malicious ones.

[@TheIVSaken]

ANY MOD, disqualifies the run IMO.. IDC if they only changed the color of the sky and nothing else. Still disqualified.

[@LordViettner]

yeah, as much as I enjoy armor and weapon skins, i think it has to be black and white/right and wrong, then there will not be any grey area that leaves things open for technicalities or personal interpretations. they definitely should keep each console separate, just like they've done in the past, too

[@svenstevenson2245]

There is no grey area for leader boards on this IMO. If they are modding textures/enviroment, no telling what else they are modding no matter how minor to get an advantage, OR even if not with the intent to cheat, how some mods may unintentionally affect.

[@ZephyrusAsmodeus]

I think having an officially sanctioned verification mod might be a decent idea, something that visually confirms its use and a clear game install, idk i dont mess with speedrunning

[@LordViettner]

yeah something that reads the files and shows on screen once the quest completed comes up? that would be difficult but could work!

[@tanukichikurumi]

This video feels like a sequel to Karl Jobst's latest video cause I literally just watched it lol

[@LordViettner]

i watched it as well, along with Juzzi's videos that he released over the past few months. this was definitely inspired by those 2 (and Abyssoft), as those videos really changed my outlook on the speedrunning scenario!

[@sleepy68]

Holy shit man you spooked me for a second. "Any modding on pc needs to be banned-" !!! "from the speedrunning leaderboards in MHWilds" Whew. Had me in the first half ngl 😅

[@mul25]

i wonder how modding gonna be for wilds since we be getting a crossplay

[@LordViettner]

i've been thinking the same thing. i assume visual stuff that's more client sided like armor or weapon skins will probably not impact crossplay, but I also wonder if they'll ruin the performance and throw in some anti-cheat just to avoid any issues

[@Bao598]

​@@LordViettner probably if you modded the game you will be on a separate server or you cannot access multiplayer, there are a lot of games that do that, i love modding but only to add something new to games not to cheat because then there is no fun at all...

[@islamsalimzhanov4399]

i think after situations with street fighter(if a not wrong) capcom heads become more cautious about mods

[@arthuralmeida6049]

​@@Bao598 I'd like to point out the fun of cheating because they're the reason I've 1700h in MHW:IB and I'm at 550h in MHR:SB and counting, MHW:IB only for some jewels and grinding lands materials from regions I didn't leveled up, Rise is more complicated I had more personal problems with it, the mods are for qurious armor upgrade mainly because is boring to be hours in menu clicking the same buttons, I only use legal upgrades also and I know it's still cheating but I want to cut the boring parts not break the game, infinite wirebug out of combat for exploration, spirit bird at start and infinite 3 bugs after getting the first, the last two because both mechs make the game worse for me, is worse than having to tenderizer mid fight in IB with CC that I often found annoying with weapons that aren't good for it like Bow. obs: I don't use mods that change gameplay online because i don't want to negatively impact other peoples fun.

[@Uchigatana-MHFZZ]

@@Bao598 But there are also a lot of games that dont do that. I mean, monster hunter cheating has been since ancient times and is nothing new. If you made a separate server for mods how would you separate it? All modded users use the same custom server or do they differenciate somehow? What about if the game on PC has an absolute dogwater performance and needs to be patched by modders? Reminder that MHW, the game that was supposedly mainly developed for next-gen consoles and PC, had some big troubles regarding performance and graphical issues on the PC port, as well as the ugliness of our Handler compared to any other NPC. Just have a report system and some in-game systems to check for cheated armour values, cheated weapon values, comparison of damage weapon value vs the output of the damage (if a weapon has 300dmg but is somehow doing x3 times it's damage without any damage buffs). Cheating is simply fixed by a good anti cheat. There is no need and there shouldn't be any need to just kill modding (because making a separate server for modding would just kill it or make a way worse experience for modder players, because there's no telling when you'll be paired up with Gigachad Thundercock and it's tier 1 katana doing 9000 damage per hit)

[@imtrash2812]

there's no way to stop ppl cheating if they already have that thought in them and ur solution just create a "mask" for these type of ppl to wear

[@WhyrenGP]

kenshi had an easter egg challange, wich required you to start the video at your steam library, verifying the gamefiles, opening the client, showing the empty modloader, and then starting the game. the speedrun timer started in character creation.

[@edim356]

That would be absolutely awful for single monster hunts though. You would start a hunt, see that the monster wasn't in the ideal starting spot, close the game and re-verify your files (which can take several minutes each time), and then go through starting the game again. Hundreds of times. The only alternative is doing it at the start of a recording session and uploading the full video, in which case leaderboard moderators would have to sit through potentially hours of footage per submission to make sure the runner didn't load mods in the middle of it.

[@issamelarmi]

I always considered that mods have no place in speedruns. If you need to have all kinds of edits and aids in your run, you're not a speedruners, you're a TASer

[@NaraMidnight]

I'm kinda split on the Cosmetic Aspect of it. I can see how Unmodding for runs, then Remodding for casual gameplay can become very tedious (especially if you're a content creator). But, I also understand how having the modding tools in your game directory would open the door for cheating. So I guess it's a "You can't have your cake and eat it too" situation. I'd be okay with cosmetics, but it would be hard to prove you're not using anything else with your game.

[@LordViettner]

it's a tough thing to have to deal with, and, unfortunately, there's not a perfect solution that fixes any of the issues

[@namename2040]

Many people don't believe in slippery slopes until they actually happen

[@TheRiz1205]

100% agreed with this and I have the same opinion, especially for leaderboards.

[@jonconnor0729]

Ban all mods from competitive speedrun. If only the game does check for mods every time it runs then put an indicator somewhere if the game is modded that would help. Or someone code a hacking/mod detector program, that each speedrunner should scan their game files, include that in the speedrun gameplay video as well before getting being accepted into the hall of fame.

[@johnnyjay6959]

I just saw how cheating is extremely bad in MHW. I always wondered how some of these speed runners got so lucky with some fights like Alatreon. Than one guy I saw was fighting tempered furious Rajang and Rajang kept trying to jump out of the smoke cloud from a smoke bomb but was against the tree and for several seconds Rajang tried to jump back several times. In that time dude was using a kjarr ice Sns and did a shit ton of damage doing perfect rush but rolling out of it right before the final strike. Later found out dude used a mod to change monsters behavior.

[@LordViettner]

yeah some things like that are possible, like there is a way to get lunastra stuck in a dung pod head dunk (a great runner called TSC discovered), but yeah, the AI editing stuff was really insane to find out about

[@guardian257]

i think the problem will more so be the people who will cheat no matter what rules are setup. for people playing legit, the rules for gear should be legal. RNG should not decide who has the best and most optimized augments like in qurio crafting. ill die on this hill, bite me. as long as the gear can be obtained legally, it should be good. as for actual cheating, illegal gear, behavioral changes to monsters to get more ideal attack opportunities. no one will argue that these are bad.

[@OmnicoranGaming]

to be fair i think modding should disable online connectivity with MH servers. Nexus has a way for you to shut off the mods or even make other profiles with no mods in them so you can reconnect with the servers. I'm glad it adds more to the games, but they already have so much to begin with that it's just adding extra seasoning to an already seasoned meal.

[@rechelieu]

I am not a speed runner, but I am agreeing with you. It's even more important now that we will have cross play. Someone can come in with some ridiculous cheats and impact SOS hunts. Let's not do that. I can understand why you are worried, especially after that YT vidoes got released about the top guy teaching in Alatreon hunts, aka lighting strike twice, etc. Good video.

[@LordViettner]

yeah, hopefully people don't bring damage cheats into multiplayer. if you want to do it and ruin your own experience, that's up to you, but don't ruin it for other people! capcom are supposedly adding some sort of anti-cheat, so hopefully it's something that can detect if damage cheats or other things like that are used in online

[@rechelieu]

@@LordViettner Sweet. I don't mind help, but let's have it honest. It's a game, not some 1billion real estate deal where you cheat to get it. It's a game. Some people simply forget.

[@hauksart]

I was helping a random take on the one time quest against Fatalis where you get the extra carts, when some guy joined and destroyed Fatalis in phase two with just a couple of HBG shots. His head wasn't even broken yet. Some people can't beat Fatalis legitimately without the extra carts, and once that quest is beat you can't redo it without starting the game over. At least, not for yourself. I was furious, and I called him out on it. He just told me to blame Capcom for not banning him. If you want to mod your own experience, fine. But leave it out of multiplayer. That experience left a bad taste in my mouth as far as mods are concerned. And I have run into issues where my friends using mods caused gameplay compatibility issues. I'm not completely anti mod, but I can't help but feel like they tend to cause more problems than they solve. I don't pay attention to speedruns because they are modded beyond recognition. We literally are not playing the same game, therefore, why should I care?

[@arkohnlock4409]

Tbh Modded runs should be their own category as a kind of TAS

[@MasterCrazyCurry]

I think the hest solution would be after an PC speedrun open taskmanger and the gamefiles so u can proof nothing has been moded.

[@LordViettner]

they've talked about doing that, I forget why that wasn't a feasible solution tho...

[@Bao598]

If you use vortex for example the mods doesnt appear directly in game's directory so it doesnt really work... You cant really prove it unless you try the exact same build and doesnt see any difference

[@svenstevenson2245]

@@LordViettner Task manager would only show you if they were using a "3rd party tool" like cheat engine. Without going directly to their game folder and showing ALL files, even then no telling directly just by seeing the directory, you could ghost your directory since you can install the game one location and make a copy in another folder make the copy "base" and still have the actual game modded...

[@TerraRuns]

@@LordViettnerit has to be live as well since it can easily be edited in a video. The whole aspect goes way too deep

[@technicalotaku5970]

honestly why don't they just make speedruns equal for everyone by adding an arena quest for every single monster after late game, but make it so you don't get any parts from it, maybe just some research points, that way everyone gets the same opportunity and nobody needs to worry about maps or spam spots or small/big monsters etc

[@LordViettner]

we kind of had that with the special arena in world! any monster that was capturable could be fought in the special arena :D unfortunately that won't stop monster AI manipulation, damage mods, overlays to see monster HP and moves, etc. it helps with the spawn stuff, but again, that was just a single example so the video wouldn't be unbearably long xD

[@epicazeroth]

I honestly think it's more important that they don't add ridiculous systems that requiree modding to get a certain outcome. I honestly think manipulating RNG is fine as long as it only creates game-legal outcomes.

[@eleeyah4757]

I agree on everything except cosmetic mods. Those can serve nicely to create a recognizable style "brand" for particular speedrunners. Say, Team Darkside commissions a cosmetic mod to load armor models that follow their particular recognizable looks, etc. That boosts the scene's culture, which is more beneficial than having to figure out whether cosmetic mods can be used somehow to generate an advantage is detrimental to that culture.

[@LordViettner]

that's a valid take, but that's for a channel specifically. TDS themselves don't upload runs to the leaderboards (I've done runs with them before that are on their channel). I'm only talking about solo official leaderboard speedruns, not content runs or team runs! I'm not against modding for style or anything, just against modding when you're going for Official Records hope that helps clear my position up!

[@ponyforhire]

Wouldn't it be easier to have like a "non gameplay changing mods" and "modless" category and then both sides could thrive and claim times as well as viewers could appreceate them respectively.

[@xelic1996]

If you want the perfect decorations/charm it might take thousands of hours. One runner could get an advantage over all others just by getting a lucky drop outside of the run.

[@Guyy_1]

Wholeheartedly agree: you have no idea how frustrating it is to look at speedruns and see any number of mods and cheats to make it easier for the runner that just make things unfair Slightly too high damage used to be a really big thing Altered Monster AI Cheated Talismans/Augments RNG manipulation Etc etc Just makes me feel bad when my times are slow because im on console lmao

[@Uchigatana-MHFZZ]

I'd love for mods to be more controlled but only if it comes down to damage mods. I think one of the best thing MHR and MHW has going for them is the modding community and all the custom models you can use as well as fix bugs/problems Capcom doesnt wanna fix, like specific issues with MHW and frame rate or optimisation on PC. I dont think detecting damage and invincible/defense cheats should be too hard to do, as you could check damage inputs/outputs against the defenses of the player or the monster, and check if that's the damage you should be doing. Maybe that would cause a lot of lag in the long run or some memory issues, so could always make the check every now and then instead of on every hit. Also if you have specific programs like Cheat Engine or the game detects specific values have been altered, then kick the person or something. I just hope MH Wilds still allows for modding same way MHW and MHR does in regards of graphic mods and custom model mods.

[@Iroquis]

I assumed theyd do a cheat engine. I dint thibk theyve clarified but inassume with capcom inline setvice thay makes cross olay work we'll be an always online game. Please correct me if they clarified this. Im curious.

[@Lunagaron11]

if it doesnt effect anything with your friends or others gameplay then it should be allowed

[@LordViettner]

yeah we're not talking about playing with friends, the whole concept is just for keeping speedruns that are submitted officially as legitimate as possible. at 1:46 i state that if you want to change something for yourself that doesn't mess with anyone else, then it's okay

[@crbshq]

This seems like the best solution, although unfortunately it makes running the game less accessible. Personally, I like the idea of allowing for mods that put players on the same field so that running is a test of skill rather than a test of who is willing to reset the most to get the best RNG. The problem is that allowing mods would be extremely difficult without decent verification methods.

[@LordViettner]

yeah, and even if we go with my solution of 'make runs using mods invalid on the leaderboards', there's lots of 3rd party softwares that can be used, undetected anyway. there isn't, unfortunately, a perfect solution, but I think that making the rules black and white will help keep things from getting as convoluted as they were in Rise/Sunbreak :D

[@namename2040]

Considering that the timer starts on monster hit now it should be way easier to get best times

[@TheAdarkerglow]

Okay, I may have at first misunderstood your proposal. I can agree, whole heartedly, that modding should be absolutely off limits... for speed running, for records, for anything that might be considered competitive. Even cosmetic mods, as we can't say that they're purely cosmetic without having to deeply investigate and verify files; how do we know it doesn't come with an extended or improved hitbox, or boosted/altered stats? Now, for free play, for personal enjoyment, I honestly don't care what people do. I find some of the aesthetic mods, like Vegeta Rajang and Abiorugu Deviljho, but if you're trying to be competitive, there needs to be a hardline standard for barrier to entry that makes it easier to judge at a glance that everything is being done fairly and on the level.

[@LordViettner]

100% agree

[@AlexSolaire]

The most reasonable thing to do without forcing pc speedrunners to buy a console and vice versa is to split the leaderboards in 3. Console, PC and PC with Mods (Rng support, even skins etc). This will still bring controversy with some fame hungry liers but i think that would be a compromise.

[@LordViettner]

yeah i think that's not a bad idea either!

[@sethmiles9436]

God is it beautiful to see some CB gameplay in late game Rise. I really need to get back into the game and use that thing. I also need to do so in world as well, but I wanna use other weapons too. Hmmm

[@Fydril]

I brought this up years ago and I was obliterated by the speed running community. You also defended mods. However, you were very polite in your comments. I appreciated that. If people have the opportunity to cheat, someone will cheat. Just as it is happening now. Thanks for the video. And I look forward to your tutorials on Wilds.

[@LordViettner]

respect, thank you for the comment!

[@valerius9751]

While I agree, wouldn't it be difficult to enforce? How would you prove someone is using the drunkbird mod for example? Assuming they're doing offline runs and submitting them. Or some subtle monster behavior manipulation. Not so much that it's like winning the lottery, but enough to shave off a few seconds on your records. I don't speedrun myself so if there actually *is* a way to check it then that's great

[@LordViettner]

yeah, i mean all rules related to modding are hard to enforce, for sure! You have to have a lot of trust in the runners, which is definitely lacking right now thanks to a lot of cheating coming to light over the course of this year.

[@SunnyJCR]

I think fully banning mods from speed running is the best of a few imperfect options. Curious augmentation and random talismans definitely complicated things in Rise. They created an environment that was inherently unfair, where luck playing a factor was completely unavoidable (without mods) and putting in the hours had no guarantee of reward. It was akin to a formula 1 season where the drivers did star jumps to cycle cars with varying performance before each race. Skill still played a factor but when the specs of each vehicle differed at the start line, it damaged competitive integrity. I hope random decorations (as opposed to random talismans) return in Wilds. Also, if curious style augments return, simply make them expensive (rather than random). The RNG was too much. The Iceborne grind was very achievable and you could be fully kitted for any run within 1000 hours. This put hunters on an even playing field. Between charms and augments, you could play endgame Sunbreak for the rest of your life and not get even 5% of the optimal rolls for every situation.

[@LordViettner]

love that "best of a few imperfect options" there really isn't a "fix" for the problem, I like your analogy, thanks for the comment :D

[@noupo]

Really disagree with the random deco return to wilds. Deco is essential to make a build complete, so it should not be randomized. Meanwhile talisman/charm is just a bonus, you put it after the build is done. Sure I can get 2 WEX + random skill + 3*level 1 slot talisman, but free meal + 3*higher level slot is okay too because I probably already have WEX slotted in on my build anyway.

[@SunnyJCR]

@noupo I understand where you're coming from as a casual player. However, specifically in the speed running scene, the opposite is the case. Being able to optimize builds is quite important to ensure a fair, competitive ecosystem. The decoration grind in Iceborne was relatively short for experienced players (

[@MrMordethrhedan]

as a speedrun enthusiast, this should e the case for ANY game, speedrun should be done exactly with the same accessibility for every player, everyone should play on the same palying field, no argument possible. as for the example of visual mods, well, can you be really 100% sure that you're just using a purely visual mods that doesn't affect, lets says, the range of the weapons too for example? or anything else? can the person who will review the run be sure about that too? can a random looking at you run be sure about that? no a doubt can always exist. for convenience mods like the set spawn one, why should you have the privilige of not havig to grind while other don't? speedrun is also a test of dedication, it can be annoying to be unlucky, but simply changing the rng while other might not be able too is just unfair to them.

[@LordViettner]

love that last sentence! it's just a part of running, the best players will deal with it until they get it!

[@szemyah]

should never have allowed mods in the first place if you want to have a competitive environement.

[@xTiddi]

I completely agree with this. My only issue is that how do we know if the run is modded or not? The MH Speed running community by then will require all runners to submit an uncut video recording of their files?

[@LordViettner]

it's tough for sure, but these people always get found out. this should just make it easier, since there will be less to look for. Instead of a billion rules about x y and z mods and how you can and can't edit armors and charms and whatnot, it's simple, no modding at all. then it will be (somewhat) easier to find the modded runs, they should stand out a bit more (it's impossible to know if anyone's using background software or other mods, so there's not really a one-size-fits-all solution)

[@motox20]

I agree to an extent, but with such heavy rng aspects they should be allowed to at least get their builds down. I think jt was Ruri that spent 1000 hours in World/IB and still didnt have the last 1 or 2 decos for his build(s). It may harm the overall community to not allow them to bypass the rng in certain aspects. It would just come down to luck for who is on the top of the leaderboards because they got good rng. I guess it depends on how Wilds does things with rng, we'll see. I might be thinking about it wrong, so im curious what others think.

[@LokeGermanLp]

You should have different spawn leader boards too. So it makes every run worth it or speed running needs to be focused on Arenas

[@kamarulbahari152]

At this stage I simply disregard all PC based speedrun, no matter how 'legit' the speed runner are. OTOH I would really like if the MH team allow further customization to the Arena feature. Maybe instead of predetermined monster a choice of weapon and eq set, allow the player to choose any monster with a predetermine size and HP and they can start with whatever loadout they want. But disable all material drop, carving and mission reward.

[@meowsquared]

I think a very simple solution is to separate modded from unmodded speedruns into their own categories, then in the case of modded runs outline very specifically what mods are allowed for what purposes out the gate and allow no moving of the goal posts. In the case of things like possible locations or even the quirious cheating, I honestly don't really care if players are modding that so long as they are staying within those reasonable limits because I know well from experience just how painful it is trying to optimize for speedruns, legit. My problem isn't players using that stuff; my problem is players using it without openly discussing what they used and/or having clear rules in place to demand some level of authenticity/quality control. As far as I'm concerned, as long as the rules are clearly established and players are operating within those rules and in good faith, I have no issue at all with players manipulating rng within those good faith limits to save themselves some time and frustration.

[@iMightBeCrazy]

I just like to make my character look better with mods, that's about all I get into

[@Sirkingx]

That poor Pink Rathian.

[@Jromie09]

Nodding is super fun but it should be excluded from official leader boards (unless it's a best med leader board)

[@SilversTaurus]

Speedruns imo should have the video of the run and a camera behind focusing on the game and the player video both to be submitted after speedrun attempt. More proof of no cheating should be the way now forward.

[@teanymonster5227]

speedrunning i agree but everything else should be moddable no questions asked. just its up to you in the first place if you want to play with other or compatitive or speedrun or just play mostly singleplayer, so the choice of modding should also be in your hands. again i agree with the points made that for speedrunning its a problem and other MH speedrunner community members also said in rise and world that nowadays you cant be sure if a speedrun is 100% unmodded or not without looking into the game files and looking at monster behaviours values and chances and all that stuff to make sure its unmodded. sadly to many fakes got uncovered already and the "trust" is already broken for many here.

[@LordViettner]

yep, agreed

[@Arimokita]

If you play with mods, your speedrun goes into the TAS category, thats it

[@squibble7659]

Instead of outright banning mods (because mods can add monsters, QOL etc), why not have a vanilla and modded league?

[@SilversTaurus]

I agree. After watching Karl Jobst video all of the speedrunners pc runs immediately were questionable to me. The edited talisman runs also put a sour taste for me back then. Which is why, for me, we don't need that horrible gacha rng in MH.

[@maxmustermann3938]

Well, the issue with modding is definitely parity with consoles. However, consider a game like Monster Hunter World. One of the standard mods people would use removes some crappy dogshit line of code that can make the game lag out. What you have to ask yourself is... is this present in the console versions too? Because if it isn't, then modding that out of the game actually increases parity between the platforms. And considering the track record, something like this on PC is likely to happen again. I don't think an extremely generalized stance of "no modding, ever" makes sense, really. I'd say that this has to be examined carefully. For other games, there are plenty of examples where some specific mod was allowed for whatever reason. With PC only games, this kind of thing is fine, but if the games are being run on console as well, then something like a cutscene skip mod being allowed would also have to mean separate leaderboards/categories.

[@nonenoninomae]

I don't even mod a single MH game. But I'm with you.

[@ramika30898]

Banning mods wouldnt change anything. Because the only type of mod that is "relevant" would be AI manipulating, even if not making impossible things like making impossibles in .thk editting, it'd be move chance % alterations. Those who want to cheats, will just do that and say they didnt cheat anyway I think it's kinda sad, but maybe the only possible way to do anti-mod is to have another mod that always display in the game, and that mod will prevent any other mod from activating imo

[@harpingon]

Been some fallout from these revelations, huh.

[@LordViettner]

yeah, it's totally changed my mindset. Sure, having to grind more RNG sucks, but it really makes the payoff of getting the run very satisfying! 2 examples I can think of in my personal speedrunning was Apex Rathian HBG on Switch in base Rise, and our 7.5 minute P1 Safi'jiiva clear on PS4 Iceborne. Both of those runs the team I ran with spent ~8 hours a day for a week straight grinding crap RNG, and it sucked while we were resetting constantly. HOWEVER, nothing beats that feeling of when you FINALLY get the run, and there's no questions of legitimacy!

[@sneaky7615]

On guarantee spawn point mod what if we have separate leaderboard for each spawn point? I mean if the main focus is to prevent cheating on leaderboard not only this solution fix that it also remove the rng that console player has to dealt with since every run is a viable run. The same goes for drunk bird mod if it exist in Wild that is.

[@thefinalskarm1754]

8:16 if you don't want your game to end up like world of warcraft with it's addons (mods) it would need banning outright.

[@SilverTwinkle]

If wilds has crossplay with console it might be harder to mod in general.

[@LordViettner]

it does have crossplay

[@Silverie_VII]

Imo, any modding to any speedrun's on any game's should be not counted in any speedrun leaderboard. Imo a "Speedrun" is when player trying their best to do and figure out ways to beat the game or certain part or certain things of that game with whatever the default game or version of that game is offering without any mod's. Imo stuff like exploiting glitch to clear certain place or things faster is still okay with me, but the moment you use any sort of mod, it just doesn't feel right tbh. Like, NO modding speedrun should've been a thing on any game's long ago tbh.

[@scottlett6005]

The r&g spons are part of the game. Making it so you have to no more than one strategy to get the best time. If you need to mod to be the best. Then your not the best.

[@loverofjesusMKII]

I'm sorry butthe barrier to entry for speedruns should not be left up to garbage unconrollable RNG just to get an optimal set

[@LordViettner]

agreed, that's the devs fault, though, that specific feature was poor game design IMO. you can speedrun without the RNG grind, there were rulesets for no Qurious Augments as well.

[@lucifer-ygo9793]

Just MOD only for yourself and Nobody will get hurt 😊

[@LordViettner]

that's true! sadly some people cheat for clout and other's take hacks into multiplayer. modding is very fun and can add a lot to a game, but it has to be used wisely!

[@peterturna9558]

Mh Speed running died with MHworld not even bec of pc as a platform but bec it introduced so many deviations of anything but actually having to fight the monster. From goofy exploits to environmental bs Mantles? No mantles? Even more rng bec decos were basically augments, Turf wars, lots of places where a monster can’t even be fought properly, mon ai that ruins runs fast, frogs and so on. So many things people like about world makes it a less fitting place for the core audience- people that want to hunt and fight monsters and not collect glowing piles of shit

[@houseofthehuntinghorn1433]

Capcom did say the are implementing hard anti cheat into the REX engine. As well as taking a hard stance on any mods.

[@LordViettner]

yeah i know they used something like Denovo for DD2, and it absolutely bricks performance in games. so hopefully they're able to come up with something on their own

[@houseofthehuntinghorn1433]

@LordViettner it's something completely new. I think they're hard coding it into the engine itself. If you look up capcom R.E next it's the evolution of the R.E engine they clearly state they are not playing with ppl moding at all. They look at any mods the same as cheating .

[@LordViettner]

@@houseofthehuntinghorn1433 hell yeah, thanks for the info my guy!

[@houseofthehuntinghorn1433]

@LordViettner of course my guy. And the good thing about the REX engine is they can update and upgrade any game with the R.E badge. They are trying to become a rival to unreal. Bit it sucks that a few bad apple messed it up for everyone else 😕. But all the money they are putting into these games they have every right.

[@Bao598]

​@@houseofthehuntinghorn1433 that are great but bad news, i love mods when they dont change the gameplay at all for example cosmetics, music mods, shaders and those things that make the game look better without changing anything at all... So if they ban every single mod then it would be a really bad thing for people that doesnt use mods to cheat but to have better looking game...

[@neku2741]

Honestly, I don't care about speedrun at all, world records are stupid empty achievement. That being said, if you want to speedrun and use mods then that defeats the purpose of a speedrun isn't it. I could get world record by modifying my dmg to 1 billion but that's extra stupid. Speedrun should be vanilla. The community should ban modding and the modders should made their mods display watermark on screen whenever someone use it.

[@LordViettner]

the watermark idea is kinda genius, I wonder how viable that is... good idea

[@mathieu499]

why don't they do categories for spawn point ? so that every game got to be played ? to me the speedrun is about seing how someone with perfect knowledge deal with the natural monster behavior and get the best out of it, so yeah, definitely no ai manipulation, either it's not the same game the crowd is playing. when it comes to build and qurios well, i understand that you'll want to have the best possible stuff cuz either u are put to a disadvantage against someone who droped everything needed but it's kinda also what makes the flavor of the game..

[@LordViettner]

you could do that, but for the most part these leaderboards don't want to be split 80 different ways. We already have categories per weapon, per console, TA or freestyle, etc. at some point you don't want to continue tacking on needless categories. the Qurious augments were just bad for speedrunning, it added a layer of RNG that was really unprecedented before. They did a good job managing it, but I hope that system never ever returns xD It was probably the only time where MH speedrunning had a "if you don't mod, you lose automatically" wrench thrown in

[@mathieu499]

@@LordViettner with the new big area this zoning stuff is gonna get crazy i guess, but putting your camp where u want (or can?) might kinda help with this spawn issue ... hopefully ^^'

[@saltycomet]

PC players are known to possibly cheat in any game FPS game? can use wall hacks and most will never know etc

[@miguelcabreracastro6968]

I like monster hunter, but despise speedrunning. Why is this shown to me lmao? anyway, enjoy wilds when it comes out.

[@LordViettner]

hopefully you enjoy too! 2025 can't come soon enough :D

[@WarrenGdog28]

How u Beat Amatsu in Rise

[@leemurph318]

Im a fashionhunter that why i use mods for cosmetics only

[@oruzu117]

why not do speed runs in the arena?

[@LordViettner]

the spawn mod is only one example, i used it bc it's simple to understand the advantage it gives and why that kind of RNG manipulation can lead to a grey area about other types of RNG manipulation. the sole point of the video isn't that spawn rng is bad, my main point is that even allowing the "lesser" versions of manipulation to make things easier can be a gateway into people manipulating other things that shouldn't be touched

[@Shadow_Dragon55]

*me making monsters faster and increasing health* 🤔

[@CallMeLethano]

dude please watch out that introduction statement triggered my fight-or-flight response, i thought you were advocating for banning mods, full stop

[@LordViettner]

xD

[@choaticfae4654]

This sounds so convuluted and unenjoyable..... do ppl actually play like this?

[@skyzip4k171]

speedrunning yeah, but modding is part of the mh soul

[@LordViettner]

agreed, that's why my argument is only for official speedrunning, personal modding for your own enjoyment shouldn't be banned in any way!

[@piemaster793]

Make a speedrunning mod that block and or shows all mods we have that in pay day 2 runs with out this mod are sus

[@KumaBeChillin]

9 secs in, never seen any of your videos, but That is a FIRE intro.

[@johannesnagengast7643]

If you need to mod for a speed run you are just too bad to do it the proper way, git gud.

[@Kingstalk]

i really do not care of someone uses mods or not so i dont know what the fuzz is all about

[@LordViettner]

and that's true of a lot of people! The fuss is really only over official runs submitted to leaderboards and, you could argue, over the rare cases of people using insta-kill 1 hit weapons in multiplayer. Mods for personal uses aren't an issue by any means, in most people's opinion!

[@duo7777]

Sure for speed running but Don't mess with other peoples mod for fashion and weapon design and reskin of the handler face to more of a refining Asian cuter look including her body. we all plays and already finish the story for ps4, ps5 and pc and for the rest of us including me I like to use mod that's re skin the look of the amor/weapon into more of a refining adult sexy taste. As an adult I don't go into other people server to show of my female Avatar and only stay in my server.

[@LordViettner]

no one's trying to take away personal mods for layered weapons/armor or character changes. Listen very carefully at 1:46

[@duo7777]

@@LordViettner Alright, thank you for pointing out but didn't you say something about banning mod completely or easier for moderator to identify the fake speed runner.

[@LordViettner]

@@duo7777 banning mods completely on *speedrunning official leaderboards*, i feel like, given the context of the video, it should be very obvious that I don't mean banning mods for everyone in the community. the moderators are the people who watch the speedruns for the leaderboard, and decide if it's allowed or not. this should make their job a bit easier. I'm not some psycho, lunatic who's parading around saying that capcom should ban anyone who uses mods. Modded speedruns shouldn't be allowed on the leaderboards, that's the end-all, be-all of my video xD

[@TerraRuns]

Other players won’t see visual mods if they don’t have the files. It’s impossible to change the experience of other players just with visual mods since it seems like you don’t know. You don’t have to worry about that 😅

[@bludclot]

I play on Xbox. I am NOT looking forward to cross play because of mods. Quick example. Borderlands. I think it was 3, but I forget. Someone joined my game with a weapon mod, brought over from the PC that he called "Thanos snap". I bet you can guess, on your first try, what it did. But not just half the mobs, all the mobs. You can't give others weapons in Monster Hunter, but if anything like that shows up on the Xbox, it kills it for me. I have literally helped 100s of people (about 8300 hours), I'm done helping others and will only play with family or RL friends if something like that starts to plague the console community.

[@ibsul7157]

I get what you're saying, but I disagree with your definition of quality of life. Quality of life mods shouldn't be game altering. They should do very minor things, like fix menu tick rates. Manipulating spawns is 100% unfair and is a severe alteration of the game. So, to me, not really QoL. I think mods should just get put into a TAS leader board anyway. Rather than scorched earth, just actually define the rules. Regardless, though, don't fool yourself. People will cheat anyway, regardless of how strict the rules are. Even if someone doesn't show a clothing mod, that doesn't mean they aren't manipulating core game mechanics. Even if you say no mods, there is no way to verify it anyway. All in all, I'd say; saying no mods won't actually fix anything.

[@LordViettner]

you're right, I should've made myself more clear. I meant quality of life for *speedrunning* purposes, removing 90% of spawns to get the best spawn every time will vastly improve a speedrunners quality of life.

[@ibsul7157]

@@LordViettner Oh gotcha, yea that makes more sense where you're coming from with that extra context. I really hope something can be done, its never fun to see something you love slowly die. Perhaps maybe take it the other direction, and require some mods that way you can ask for receipts of installed mods to ensure people are within boundaries? I'm not sure, but it's just an idea I'm tossing out there and likely not the best solution out there either.

[@scragglie]

whats that? the monhun speedrunning community ruining it for everyone else YET AGAIN?!?!? color me surprised. alot of people have talked about and made videos about how the monhun speedrunning community is super toxic and doesnt have the best interest of the game or players in mind, but ive never seen it more apparent than it is here. people genuinely praising crapcom for ban hammering any and all mods in their games, calling anyone who uses mods a "hacker" or "cheater" get real dude. the most disingenuous bad faith shit ive had to listen to in the community, always comes from the speedrun community. bunch of snivelling jerks who dont even like the game if you ask me. its sad that now both sides are radical and extreme about their stances on this. let people play how they want ffs. maybe instead of banning all mods from their games, capcom should make it so that you dont have to play 100k hours in the game just to get the correct rng on your build, decos, augments, monster ai, size, and placement. yall are not ready for that conversation tho, apparently. this is just an immature way of looking at videogames in general imo.

[@LordViettner]

agree 100% on the RNG stuff, it's a slog, would love if they made things like decos from world a lot more accessible. No one is suggesting banning modding outright, you may have misunderstood, just banning modding for people trying to submit official leaderboard runs. No one really cares if you mod your own game for your own enjoyment, the problem I'm trying to address is people disingenuously getting "world records" only to find out that they cheated and someone who didn't got robbed of their achievement. Capcom doesn't really do bans, they did do soft locks of peoples games if they had illegal items in game in Iceborne, but you could still solo play the game offline or simply remove the items and you had full access again. I don't think anyone in the community wants people who are just doing layered weapons, cool looking armors, giving their character big titties, or whatever you like, being banned from the game. People who use mods aren't cheaters, but their are cheaters who use mods. What we're trying to address is people cheating for clout, for views, for records, etc. That's disingenuous to the integrity of speedrunning any game! So, the only 'ban' would be that the run is invalidated from the leaderboards or isn't allowed to be posted to the leaderboards in the first place. Hopefully that made things a bit more clear!

[@scragglie]

@@LordViettner thanks for the response. maybe i misinterpreted some of your points. i just really hope and pray that capcom doesnt go fully into stopping any and all mods. modding is like 50% of the reason why i play on pc, theres just so much cool stuff you can do with it, and i mean, im sure you know that too, idk maybe i just get defensive about it because i dont want to imagine a monhun game without mods. i agree tho that there needs to be a foolproof way to easily prove whether your run is legit or not, and perhaps capcom has something in mind, but knowing them as a company, my heart sinks thinking about what it might be..

[@LordViettner]

@@scragglie of course man, I appreciate your comments, and it's clear that you're passionate about this, which I respect. I don't think they will ban all mods, there will always be ways around them. Even DD2 had an anti-cheat, but there's still a hefty amount of mods available for the PC version. I hope the same goes for Capcom's anti-cheat thing. Hopefully it'll just be something to stop cheaters, not to stop modders. There's a huge difference there, and hopefully Capcom will recognize that! Thanks again for the comments, and for being civil while chatting :D

[@scragglie]

@@LordViettner yea yur right man, thanks for clarifying.

[@MissAlice4You]

Some games let us turn on/off cross play. Can we just do that? My problem isn't the speed running. Just the PC players that use add-ons. To be honest, as a console player only, I had in my mind for the longest time PC players can't play without mods so they all cheat. In general this is how most console only players think, especially the older they are. I have a friend that's in his late 40's say he will not be playing with any PC players in Wilds because of this. But I am willing and do want to play with some of my friends that are on PC. You have to understand some of us only on console see all mods as cheating, even if its only cosmetic. If its not in the game and you put it in, its automatically cheating. But if its just mostly on speedruns these problems, I should be fine and enjoy playing normally with all hunters across all platforms. :)

[@ZenTea]

PS5 runs only. Can’t trust any PC runs. Thanks MH community

[@LoshJysic]

Imagine needed to mod the game and cheat just to try and look cool on the internet to (falsely) say youre good at a game. How much of a loser do you need to be?

[@Nami10481]

Pokke village 😢 i can't keep watching bye 😭

[@LordViettner]

not a pokke fan? or too much nostalgia? xD

[@Nami10481]

@@LordViettner its my favorite monster hunter game

[@arthuralmeida6049]

Mods to get the right food, right respawn and perfect builds are ok for me, mods that change monster behavior/size, illegal stats, overlays and that kind of thing I think is too much of assistance, is just that I feel bad for people with bad lucky having to put 10x the effort to getting the same thing, I know how it feels because I like that, have to cheat on world and rise to finish my builds because I was almost quitting both because of it, just couldn't get watch I wanted for hundreds of hours while my friend with a couple of tries got everything he wanted, so if RNG heavily impacts an speed run I feels it's less impressive, but that's my point as a viewers only, no one has to agree.

[@Auvisome]

I agree!

[@alexandergilomen477]

The way you talk you got no clue about the words you are using. Most obviously: Quality of Life does not include anything like monster health or anything alike that changes the gameplay.

[@LordViettner]

I think that it's you who don't know what's going on here, I'm very clearly talking about speedrunning. those mods create quality of life for speedrunning. not having to reset for spawns or the lowest health makes getting a run take much less time, thus improving the speedrunner's quality of life. not sure why you, and many others in the comments, aren't understanding that this video is about speedrunning. even though it's ALL I talk about xD

[@Perjoss]

honestly, I think mods that allow cheating should be banned from online play and not just for speed runs. It's not a pvp game but a hunt can still be totally ruined when someone 2 shots the monster, its not what monster hunter is about, i think its fine for players to do this in their own solo game but i'd like to see it banned from online coop.

[@famgod8318]

Ban PC speedruns.

[@alesztra937]

Terrible solution.

[@mhbloodsurge]

I agree with famgod

[@LordViettner]

that's overkill, especially since wilds will have some semblance of anti-cheat (so i've heard). we already have separate categories for each console, so keeping that will also be in good taste for the Wilds leaderboards. cheating is just as doable on switch, and, although slightly more difficult, it is possible to do on consoles as well. PC definitely has it easier, but outright banning runs from any console/PC will never happen. keeping distinction of the platform is the most beneficial, in my opinion :D

[@mhbloodsurge]

If only wilds will have a mod menu for every platform that was easily accessible

[@theabyssalone_]

Brain dead solution.