Why Traffic Cameras Are Missing from Many US Roads

[@sirrippovmaple]

"Most cities just offload this to private companies" It was at that moment that I realized that the 6th amendment wasn't a loophole, but designed for this very sort of thing.

[@noefillon1749]

If you delegate to a private company, you have to pay them a fixed amount for them not to be incentivized to ticket more people

[@Goatcha_M]

That's less an issue with the cameras and more with Privatisation in general. If the cameras were owned and operated by the city/state and an officer had to review the footage before issuing the fine, then you remove the corporate profit motive and can face your accuser.

[@meneldal]

Maybe make the companies pay the fine 100x for every miss

[@trumpetbob15]

@@Goatcha_M As I added as an aside in another comment, there was an instance of a police officer in Michigan camping at a red light, issuing tickets left and right to pretty much everybody, and then earning about double or triple his salary in "overtime" spent in court defending his tickets. Unfortunately, the judges accepted his claims by default until a reporter started investigating and the scam was broken. So yeah, just cause you can face a cop in court does not mean you will get the constitutional protections you deserve - especially in states that will hit you with an even bigger bill if you have the nerve to actually exercise your right to a jury trial.

[@SmallSpoonBrigade]

Around here, the tickets have to be issued by commissioned officers.

[@CaptainKremmen]

Some US tollways have average speed detection. I used one long ago which also had service areas where you could get fast food. So you could drive nice and fast, stop for 20 mins for a burger, and then exit the tollway with an acceptable average speed.

[@DylanSargesson]

Average speed zones should only be between junctions to avoid this problem. If there's nowhere to turn off, you can't speed and then stop.

[@JohnMcGann90]

They have worked that one out in the UK, its not just one camera at the start and one at the end, there are multiples along the route and you never know if the average is between cameras 1 and 9 or 4 to 7 and 5 to 9 etc, there is also one on every exit so you can't sneak off for a quick bite then hammer it along, nor can you stop in a layby and have a break either :(

[@beatrix1120]

That's the most American loophole I've ever heard😅

[@beyondEV]

Over here in Switzerland average speed detections are very rare. Speed enforcement is mostly focused on city streets. Additionally, to much of it, would be considered excessive surveillance. With direct democracy, neither politics nor police can afford to offend to people. They need to make sure, the majority of people see it as a traffic safety measure, not as a way to make money of the people. So, sometimes, you have a speed camera in e.g. a construction site, without it being turned on. The mere presence already calms traffic, put not turning it on, means no one gets a fine for being over the limit, just after the change of the limit. So people don't get angry. I mean the still make good money: Some on the highway, even with multiple warning sign, sometimes make several million $ a year. One of those, was placed a a dangerous section, made about 80 mio, but when they improved the road, they did remove it.

[@Ttt-n1w]

I love this

[@Ellary_Rosewood]

I love how you're going down the urban planning rabbit hole. One of us. One of us. ❤️

[@IamNiggler]

Are you a homosexual as well?

[@OntarioTrafficMan]

I've been watching Evan's videos for years and this recent series has been a very pleasant surprise. The videos are remarkably well researched!

[@evan]

@@OntarioTrafficMan Thank you for the kind words! I'm still terrified I misspoke at some point in this video and said something wrong, but I am trying my best :')

[@j_ustanoob]

@@evanthese videos are very nice to watch :d

[@lawrenceglaister4364]

​@@evan , speed cameras are so bad against drivers that all governments actually put their locations on maps and warnings on the GPS plus warning road signs and they are painted yellow to warn drivers so they have no excuse for speeding !!!!!!!

[@nikofoto]

I received a ticket in a Texas town because one of these devices thought I broke a red light when I was turning into a barbecue restaurant. I challenged the ticket and they subsequently threw out the ticket. A few months later, and they banned traffic cameras outright in the entire state.

[@evan]

how did they think you ran the red then??? Also including a BBQ: very Texan story haha

[@nikofoto]

@@evan The traffic light was placed where the turn for the parking lot entrance began. Based on the ticket, they didn’t acknowledge that there was a business there, so the only place that I could’ve gone in their opinion was straight, after leaving the view of the camera. Whenever you’re in central Texas, let me know. I’m a BBQ connoisseur. 😉

[@theap0killyp1k2]

I assume it's because of all the faulty tickets?

[@christopher9727]

...... Do you know Jesus Christ can set you free from sins and save you from hell today Jesus Christ is the only hope in this world no other gods will lead you to heaven There is no security or hope with out Jesus Christ in this world come and repent of all sins today Today is the day of salvation come to the loving savior Today repent and do not go to hell Come to Jesus Christ today Jesus Christ is only way to heaven Repent and follow him today seek his heart Jesus Christ can fill the emptiness he can fill the void Heaven and hell is real cone to the loving savior today Today is the day of salvation tomorrow might be to late come to the loving savior today Romans 6.23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. John 3:16-21 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. 21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God. Mark 1.15 15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel. 2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. Hebrews 11:6 6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. Jesus

[@chickenfishhybrid44]

​@@theap0killyp1k2what? The ban? Obviously there's people that would lobby against cameras for multiple reasons. Some people just don't like the surveillance angle, some people just want to speed, some people fear the fault tickets etc.

[@jlo9993]

something that i don't see a lot of people mentioning is how nice your shots are framed. i'm only 2 minutes in but the framing of your bike and you on the grass just felt so nice. now just film everything in 4:3 and you'll have an a24 film on your hands (:

[@evan]

Thank you! Composition is my favourite aspect of photography so I do put a lot of time into how shots look. Plus that bike shot was shot on my favourite lens (50mm prime) which I rarely get to use for video, but I loved the composition for that Greenwich park shot :)

[@jlo9993]

@@evan it was great!!! reminded me of something by wes anderson :) love your content so much

[@PurpleNurpleReviews]

@@evan I also saw it and was going to comment about the framing. Beautiful work in a beautiful park. I love going to Greenwich when it's nice and having a sit on the hill...

[@williamchamberlain2263]

Good point: the composition _is_ good :)

[@christopher9727]

...... Do you know Jesus Christ can set you free from sins and save you from hell today Jesus Christ is the only hope in this world no other gods will lead you to heaven There is no security or hope with out Jesus Christ in this world come and repent of all sins today Today is the day of salvation come to the loving savior Today repent and do not go to hell Come to Jesus Christ today Jesus Christ is only way to heaven Repent and follow him today seek his heart Jesus Christ can fill the emptiness he can fill the void Heaven and hell is real cone to the loving savior today Today is the day of salvation tomorrow might be to late come to the loving savior today Romans 6.23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. John 3:16-21 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. 21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God. Mark 1.15 15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel. 2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. Hebrews 11:6 6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. Jesus

[@01akqueen]

So happy to see you almost at 800K subscribers! Pre-congratulations!🎉🎊

[@evan]

SO CLOSE!!

[@TheBaldr]

In Charlotte, NC they put in Red Light Cameras, under state law required the fines to go the Education fund. Well, they were challenged in court because they were only putting the fees after the maintenance costs were going to the education fund. The court ruled 100% of the fines had to go to the education fund and the city had to pay for the maintenance costs. Two weeks after the court ruling all the red light cameras came down.

[@SmallSpoonBrigade]

Since my wife got a car with adaptive cruise control, I'm far less nervous about driving past the cameras or through school zones. I just set the speed to 19mph, and I can focus 100% on not driving over any kids. Systems like that probably do screw with the profitability of the systems though.

[@grahvis]

That seems to be an example of how money overrules people's safety.

[@TheRockkickass]

@@grahvishow?

[@grahvis]

@@TheRockkickass . I would have thought that was obvious. Not paying the maintenance costs was more important than reducing collisions by enforcing stopping at red lights.

[@TheRockkickass]

@@grahvis do you want the government to enforce how you wipe your ass too. If you want a bunch of cameras aimed at you all the time, even more than there already are, go to china.

[@DSAhmed]

Design the roads to where the speed limit "feels fast" then you wont have so many speeders or the need for cameras. Make the lanes more narrow.

[@evan]

Yes! Speeding shouldn't be as easy if the roads were designed to match the intended speed limit

[@trumpetbob15]

Add in that we need to remove the asinine 55 mph benchmark that was set as a way to somehow conserve gasoline. If a road is going to have a speed limit, it should be mandatory that the jurisdiction pay for an actual study of the road to determine the "safest" speed and publish that for the public to comment on. It should be similar to a federal regulation; even with how bad a process that is, it is still better than the nonsense, "This road appears to look like it should have a 35mph speed limit." Yeah, gonna need a bit more justification than your gut on that one, sparky!

[@littlelimax3739]

We have some older roads like that here. They're very narrow with no shoulder, but everyone still speeds and it feels extra dangerous when I come across someone on a bike.

[@minarchisttrucker2775]

I noticed a lot of california side roads are like this. Though the interstates are different lol everyone there does 85 in a 65

[@cloudyview]

Phoenix has done the opposite - 6 Lanes (three in each direction) with either a center turn lane or a full median for most of the major surface streets. Sidewalks directly next to the roadway... 🤦 Traffic in the mornings will run you over if you're going under 60mph, limit is 45, and 70 is not unheard of.

[@maximushaughton2404]

You should look in to the history of speed cameras in the UK, as when they 1st came in it was totally different from what you know now. There never used to be signs telling you that you were coming up to a speed camera, but that changed due to one person that the police took to court. At the time it was illegal to have anything that warned you that a speed camera was coming up, but you could buy a little box, that picked up the wave length the camera's used, and warn you, it was looked on as illegal as it was a distraction to your driving. The guy that was taken to court, pointed out to the judge, that speed cameras were used in black spot areas, and so he would know a dangerous part of the road was up ahead, so to slow down. The judge agreed with him, and threw the case out. Also when speed cameras were 1st installed, they spread though the country like wild fire, it turn out there was a law that stated that the fines made were issued by speed camera, could only be used for speed cameras. After about 10 years, when a very big pot of money was sitting there, the government changed the law.

[@peter65zzfdfh]

In Australia they’ve removed the signs from most of them, they used to be required. On the other hand road fatalities have absolutely plummeted despite an increasing population. And the cameras are still relatively rare outside black spots. All the money has to go to road safety initiatives. Usually things like removing blind corners, education campaigns, upgrading intersections etc.

[@blahmcblahface3965]

You can still get the little boxes that are also useful for the laser speed detectors they use. They don't need to tell you you're approaching those so they're pretty handy

[@delcogoblin]

This brings up a really good argument regarding radar detectors and such for vehicles. I don't really want to be speeding, and sometimes I simply do not realize especially on the highway. A radar being a good reminder to slow it down, on top of avoiding a ticket, sounds like a good deal to me. Generally speaking in Pennsylvania I have not heard many stories of people being pulled over frequently for their speed, but New Jersey cops are absolutely relentless about it and I visit often.

[@vista9434]

The man that introduced the speed camera to the UK was working for the Met Police at the time and has published some of the early speed and red light camera photos from the early 90's on his website since he became a photography after leaving the force.

[@E11KMA]

My Boss been driving on the UK roads for over 30 years and thought average speed cameras were like normal speed cameras. Got a ticket recently and couldn't understand how he got it. I can't believe he got away for so long. I don't mess about on average speed cams

[@BunjiKugashira42]

If he got away with not knowing, I guess that means he generally doesn't speed. Or at least doesn't speed by enough to trigger the cameras. As long as you don't speed it doesn't even matter if you know about speed cameras in general or not.

[@ethelmini]

Illustrates a point for all those who winged about the 20 limit being introduced in Wales. The average speed is often slower. There's less congestion if traffic doesn't bunch up because more of it gets to bottlenecks more quickly.

[@GabrielRM]

Speeding in the UK requires the road to be traffic-free. That's why he's gotten away with it for years, it's a once in a lifetime event.

[@graygrumbler4253]

As a resident of Maryland I see many problems with the way Maryland implements traffic cameras. (1) its for money not safety [yellow light timing]; (2) fines are issued to the owner of the vehicle not the driver [driver never identified by the issuing authority]; (3) private company implementing for profit; and (4) common legal defenses are made unlawful. And there is more...

[@maoschanz4665]

the owner of the vehicle can simply ask the driver to pay him the amount, what's the problem?

[@NickCBax]

@@maoschanz4665this. And tbh I’d like to see that be something legally enforceable that an owner can enforce against the driver.

[@SmallSpoonBrigade]

@@maoschanz4665 It's due process violation to handle it like that. The owner is the one getting the ticket, but the owner doesn't have any of the necessary information to challenge the ticket if there's something wrong with it.

[@evan]

Fines should be issued to the owner of the car imo. The car is his responsibility. If someone else was driving it, that's still his car in his name. Unless it was stolen!

[@keithparker5125]

This shows just how far behind the rest of the world that the USA is. Firstly, Evan is showing just how unfit for purpose that the US constitution is and how much it needs overhauling to catch up on 200 years of progress. In Europe, we have solved the problem of chasing the offender - the camera not only photographs the registration but also takes a high resolution pic of the driver (hence why tinted windscreens are illegal). Although the registered owner is sent the ticket, there is a legal obligation for the owner to notify who the driver was if it wasn't he with the alternative that HE will be hit with the fine and points as a penalty if he fails to obey the law.

[@antonallen8972]

Honestly, this makes so much sense now. I live in Texas, and (I don’t do this, but) it’s very common for everybody on the Interstate where it says to drive 65mph for everybody driving 80mph, or a 45mph road to be 55mph, with the big exception being school zones or small towns (they’re are strictly enforced). Everywhere else is a cat and mouse game with the cops. Just watched an additional 10 minutes - YES! ROUNDABOUTS! IT FRUSTRATES me so much that people don’t understand that when you build an arterial road in a residential district to highway standards - just slapping 35mph on it won’t make it a 35mph road! You gotta design it properly and add roundabouts!!!

[@Octopussyist]

I also don't understand what the problem is. It is a one way street that happens to be circular, with a number of intersections all coming from the right and all having to yield. What is so fckn difficult about entering a oneway street and turn right and leave it again turning right.

[@SmallSpoonBrigade]

@@Octopussyist It's not really, it's lack of experience. Around here they started putting them in sometime in the last decade or two. There's still not many of them, but the main thing I see people doing wrong is driving as fast as possible to get in there so they don't have to yield. I've almost been hit by traffic that wasn't even near the roundabout when I started pulling into the roundabout giving me the right of way. Apparently those drivers think that people entering the roundabout need to put the pedal to the metal.

[@kingzach74]

Roundabouts are annoying because nobody in the USA knows how to use them.

[@simhedgesrex7097]

I was once told by a UK policeman that you only get stopped/fined if you are going 10% above the speed limit plus 2 mph. So 79mph in a 70 zone. I know that doesn't hold up completely (I was once fined for going 34 in a 30 zone), but I've never been caught on a motorway 70mph zone for going 79 or less.

[@SmallSpoonBrigade]

@@kingzach74 Yes, they're being installed so some people are learning how to use them, but they are something that does require some practice and I don't even remember if it was something covered when I learned to drive in the '90s. The closest we had around here was traffic circles and that has very little in common.

[@ONLYJOKING101]

I'm old enough to remember when speed cameras were brought into the UK. We were told at the time they would be only used at Accident black points and places like schools. 30 odd years later they are everywhere. There are even some outside Wrexham to help the air quality. 🤪

[@aurora6920]

It's great though as too many cars are speeding making it dangerous to drive. It's not hard to just stick to the speed limit

[@JasonTurk85]

We've tried nothing and we're all out of ideas. -Every American transportation agency on safety.

[@SmallSpoonBrigade]

I wish they would try nothing around here. They try a lot of stupid ideas, seemingly no idea is too stupid for them to try. Many of the ideas aren't even legally enforceable. Many of them would appear to just increase the risk of crashes as now drivers are having to focus everywhere but the road ahead trying to puzzle out what the latest set of road markings, signs and signals mean, and which ones are even legally binding in court.

[@dealbreakerc]

Could have stopped at every American governmental agency/the government itself. Why else would America be the only western nation with a school shooting problem...

[@trumpetbob15]

As we've actually seen in many areas, it is the government's ideas that cause the accidents. Sure, those very dangerous t-bone accidents that rarely occurred are stopped by a red light camera, but notice how they never report the number of rear-end accidents or the damage to people those cause? Also, just like in rugby where removing ear protection made plays safer, removing some traffic "safety" items can actually make roads safer.

[@SmallSpoonBrigade]

@@trumpetbob15 Around here that gets reported, as long as the yellow lights are long enough, drivers should eventually figure out to leave more space for the car ahead of them. If I"m reading the local numbers correctly, the accidents in those red light camera intersections are down something like 90% last year versus the first year as people have learned not to tailgate near those intersections. If the numbers aren't available where you are, you can probably file a request for the information as they should be collected the information relevant to both the number of tickets as well as the number of collisions in those intersections

[@trumpetbob15]

@@SmallSpoonBrigade Thank you for the response. While I could request it, I think my point still stands that if the numbers are similar to what you see in your area, that should have been the number one argument IN FAVOR of them. The fact the numbers are not reported and we don't hear that as a justification for the cameras implies that the actual numbers did not support the argument. In other words, why would you leave your most persuasive argument out of the discussion?

[@aoeuable]

In Germany, fines cannot be issued by machines, it has to be a human. To get around that a machine will send you a letter saying, essentially, "It would be a shame if someone were to issue an official ticket". If you don't pay up when you get the shake-down notice a human will look at it and either discard it (unlikely), or add an administrative fee for the privilege of issuing an official act that you can then challenge in court. That said, it's also perfectly fine to challenge the shake-down notice, if it's something obvious they'll just drop it, no need to get the courts involved. But in the end the only real way to get out of a fine, realistically, is to point your finger at the actual driver, otherwise you will be stuck with the fine (the owner/registrant of the vehicle).

[@Heimbasteln]

As far as I have seen it, is that every ticket does get looked at by police, at least for the mobile cameras. I think its just that they only look for any very obvious issues. I did get flashed at by a speed camera once or twice where I didnt get a ticket afterwards, its probably because something was inconclusive.

[@RAFMnBgaming]

@@Heimbasteln Some speed cameras used to be dummies, to save on the effort of processing all that stuff. IDK if that's still the case but I guess it wouldn't be suprising if there's still some around or if they keep pretending to work during mantainence.

[@traffic.engineer]

Roundabouts would not work at many intersections because the traffic volumes are greater than a roundabout's capacity. The other issue is the initial construction a lot more. A roundabout would not be efficient for places with such high urban traffic volumes. They max out at 1000 vehicles per hour for single lane roundabout (1750 for dual lanes, 2200 for triple lane). Roundabouts are much better for rural/surburban locations where traffic is not projected to increase. We do not want to be like European countries where they install signals, making them even less efficient.

[@MrZcar350]

My favorite incorrectly sent speed camera ticket came out of South Africa where someone got a ticket for speed when their car was being towed. Theirs was the license plate the camera saw, so they got the ticket. IIRC, the scandal (instead of it just a funny mistake) was each tick was supposed to be reviewed by a person. Also, roundabouts have been spreading in the US with over 10 000 in use. First one was on Cape Code (where they're called "rotaries") and apparently Florida has the most. And the first time I encountered an average speed zone was on the B1 on the was from Dar es Salaam to Arusha in Tanzania back in the 1990s.

[@vulpeeze]

Stuff like this usually doesn't interest me but I know Evan somehow always makes it so much more interesting.

[@SamiKelsh]

So my partner comes from a small town in Leicestershire that has speed cameras set up around this weird junction leading into the town. For years, the “Speed cameras” indicator sign had been creatively edited to read “pee cameras” and we’re both so sad they fixed it. RIP Earl Shilton Pee Cameras 😔

[@JuneNafziger]

Well I think I know what you must do to rectify this situation

[@SamiKelsh]

@@JuneNafziger LISTEN. If the sign suddenly says Pee Cameras again just after we've been to visit my partner's family, it's a total coincidence, and for legal reasons this is all a joke 🙃

[@mkendallpk4321]

Stoplight cameras were outlawed in New Jersey for the following two reasons. One they caused more accidents and two there is no state mandated time for how long you have to be stopped for right on red. Many municipalities made the time to stay stopped a ridiculous amount of time. It caused a big problem as no two municipalities used the same standard of time to be stopped.

[@sion8]

So what you're saying is New Jersey should have had a state standard instead? Because, that's probably what should have happened instead.

[@Chomp-Rock]

It shouldn't matter how long the light stays red. If it's red, you wait. Are you telling me drivers were waiting at red for the amount of time they thought was correct and then driving through the red?

[@mkendallpk4321]

@@sion8 Yes, there should be a state standard. The problem is home rule in New Jersey is very strong.

[@mkendallpk4321]

@@Chomp-Rock No. You have to stop a certain (undefined by the state) for a right turn on red.

[@Jonesy1701]

If there's no mandated time, then stopping is all that's required. Doesn't matter how brief.

[@iotkualt]

People either speed up to beat the red light camera in a panic or stop in a panic, dangerous unpredictable actions, it doesn't help safety it just helps revenue. Speed limits are an issue of road design more than anything else short of being reckless and driving 30mph faster or something

[@evan]

Yes! I wish I’d mentioned that speeding is only normalised because the road design makes it easy

[@DudeSoWin]

@@evan normalised . . .Nullest empty message I ever heard. You going to rob the audience or just sit around sucking behaviors all day.

[@thryduulf]

@@evan and the road your opening speed camera shot is on is not a bad example of this. The road used to have a 30 mph but, without the road design being changed in any way, it now has a 20mph limit. Most people still treat it as a 30 mph road (usually they slow down for the camera but I've still seen it flash more times than I can remember). I only drive the road occasionally, but every single time I stick to 20 I get overtaken or honked/flashed at. The Highway (between the Limehouse Link Tunnel and Tower of London) is even more egregious - it was originally 40mph but is now 20 mph, only the speed limit signs have changed.

[@SmallSpoonBrigade]

The main objection I personally have is that the cameras do not have the ability to verify that people were legally required to stop. Just because there was a yellow and a red, doesn't automatically mean that somebody in the intersection at that time is breaking the law. The laws governing running red lights are often a lot more pragmatic than if you run the red you get the ticket.

[@SmallSpoonBrigade]

@@evan There's also the bit that in many parts of the US, you can be ticketed for not keeping up with the flow of traffic. Even if the flow of traffic is going above the speed limit.

[@rextitan]

With every passing day i realise how much of the dystopian genre was actually just real america all along.

[@HumbleWooper]

When I was younger I thought Jaws was just a fun horror story. Surely nobody in real life would REALLY refuse expert advice that hard if faced with a very clear public health crisis. Then covid happened, and my view of humanity went from "nobody can be THAT heartless" (Emperor's New Groove) to "people are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals and you know it" (Men in Black). 😕

[@DizzleDog]

Read more of the comments. A lot of the European’s agree with the dystopian/ big brother policies 🤯

[@kassarc16]

Take a trip to Europe and get back to us

[@DizzleDog]

@@kassarc16 Done. Now what?

[@user-zu5do6ri6r]

@HumbleWooper The experts were having parties while telling us to isolate. It takes a fool to trust an "expert", when one can read the exact same information and understand that the "expert" is wrong.

[@PatLund]

I knew the guy who got them taken down from the city I live in. He passed away awhile ago. What happened was he got a ticket when someone who was borrowing his car ran a red light. He took it to court and the courts ended up agreeing that they are unconditional.

[@evan]

Ooo any links for further reading? :O

[@chaws314]

I live in LA County and we had Red Light Cameras for a while, but I remember there being a lawsuit with the company that made the cameras related to the maintenance cost of the cameras or something like that. The cameras only worked for around a year and then they were turned off because of the lawsuit. Eventually a few years later the cameras were all removed. There are still cameras on Toll Road freeways.

[@SilentRacer911]

7:40 the time of the yellow light is DIRECTLY correlated with the speed limit, 35mph, 3.5 seconds yellow, 45mph, 4.5 seconds yellow… etc… if it’s shorter than that, it’s going against the drivers manual, at least in New York

[@Coccinelf]

I live in a place where there is no red light anywhere near places you drive at 45mph and I'm glad because I would need to avoid those, yikes!

[@HappyBeezerStudios]

@@Coccinelf yeah, that is speed where you grade separate the roads.

[@aquafenaa1]

a reason that i've heard for cameras being illegal in PA is that it's not always possible to prove that the recipient of the fine is the person who committed the crime for example if you let someone else drive drive your car, and they happen to trigger a speeding camera, you are issued the ticket instead of the person you lent your car to

[@evan]

Yeah the UK has an easy solution: who is the car registered to? That person is sent the fine. Wasn’t you? It’s still your vehicle so you must pay unless you can prove it was stolen (IIRC)

[@houserhythm]

I got a ticket from a camera in Germany and was sent a fine, with a photo of the event (both number plate and my face visible) and it said I can pay the fine, or give them the info on who the driver is, if it wasn't me.

[@lloydcollins6337]

@@evan In the UK you're obliged to either pay the fine, or provide the details of the person who was driving the vehicle - so you either take the consequences yourself or grass someone up. It's the same process if the police get a report from the public of dangerous or careless driving or similar - they'll send the registered keeper a Notice of Intended Prosecution (NIP) and you then legally have to tell them if you weren't driving. This is also the mechanism which allows for hire vehicle companies to pass on fines/points etc to the driver of the vehicle at the time of the offence since they'll have all of the drivers details to hand over to the police.

[@SmallSpoonBrigade]

There's a lot of issues with it. The big ones being being able to prove that there was a violation, often times the statutes have some vagueness built in to handle things like not wanting people to slam on the brakes when they think the light is changing, but that the camera system doesn't account for.

[@peter65zzfdfh]

In Australia the person that owns the car is sent the fine, if you can’t say who was driving it because it was a work vehicle or something the fine is 5x higher but no points. You do have to sign a declaration saying you don’t know who was driving or nominate someone who was. If you lie that’s a much more serious crime. *A judge* went to prison because they lied and said someone else was driving and the police were able to prove that was a lie. Like anything you can elect not to admit it and have your day in court where they will have to prove you guilty rather than vice versa.

[@AntonyTCurtis]

If a lot of people are ignoring signs or traffic lights, they may as well be removed and the road/junction redesigned to not need those signs or traffic lights.

[@SmallSpoonBrigade]

Definitely, we've started to see a bunch of roundabouts being installed in rural areas with hardly any traffic specifically because the DOT got sick of people ignoring the lights completely and just plowing into each other. So, we get roundabouts that allow people to drive without stopping and hopefully that solves the problem. But, these are more rural areas, there is the space to build them and roundabouts aren't necessarily that much more expensive than regular intersections once installed.

[@cfox4548]

When I lived in Ohio, the city of Heath installed red light and speeding cameras, spent tons of money on it and then got so many complaints that they put it on the ballot for the next election and it was voted to remove them. One of the complaints was that they sent a blind man a ticket for speeding, that one made the news, but essentially, the legally blind man owned a car so that his caretakers could transport him and one of his caretakers had sped through the intersection.

[@punditgi]

Beautiful stuff! That's why I love this channel! 🎉😊

[@cybernoid001]

I'm glad they didn't last long in my state of NV. I can't remember the legal defense argument that got rid of them. But I do remember more people slamming on their breaks causing fender bender accidents of people trying to avoid getting ticketed. Most light controlled interactions still have cameras that work to control traffic and act as footage in case of an accident (assuming the footage is pulled before it gets overwritten, usually in 24 hours)

[@Sizzyl]

there's also the fact that those cameras can be used to record/monitor civilians, which I among others are not a big fan of (and a big part of why people break them/fight against them in other countries).

[@stacker63]

i absolutely LOVE these urban planning videos please do more!!!!!

[@mjaynes288]

My city had 3 red light cameras for awhile. >70% of the tickets were issued to people turning right on red. When they inched forward after stopping to get a clear line of sight on approaching traffic the cameras decided the first stop didn't count. People started just gunning it whenever they saw a slight break in traffic. There was no way to see if the space was big enough without getting a ticket. People going straight started slamming on their brakes when the lights turned yellow. Over all the cameras increased accidents.

[@crae_s]

FYI; the average speed camera is illegal in some EU countries, and there’s been some law suits about it. As camera need to store your info on first camera, without you breaking laws yet, which may or may not violate Gdpr and similar local privacy acts

[@DagaenGolomb]

So you only store a hash on first camera, compare on second, if they match you keep the original to issue ticket. Nobody can reasonably take that hash and find out the plate, which isn't even a person but an identification of a vehicle, anyway. GDPR states "processing of personal data should be designed to serve mankind" and that's exactly what preventing reckless, entitled driving is. There are exceptions for public interest and official authorities, as well as when giving consent which the privilege of titling and insurance could be updated to provide. Most jurisdictions also have a concept of little or no privacy in public spaces. It's an easy solution so I'd throw out any asinine ideas of GDPR or similar preventing this, even if the original camera stores identifiable information -- again, it does not need to.

[@JohnSmith-yu8ml]

im pretty sure the primary reason law enforcement isnt allowed to put up cameras everywhere is because of the 4th amendment. It turns out that having surveillance of the entire population in public is a violation of privacy. Your could easily argue traffic cameras fall under that

[@evan]

You could argue the 4th 5th and 6th but part of me strongly believes no argument on these would pass the Supreme Court

[@HappyBeezerStudios]

Makes me wonder how well one could argue that the police or the city or the state or the nation is the accuser. That way the whole "face the witness" part can be easily dismissed.

[@simonmeadows7961]

Watch this for the urban planning insight. Stay until the very end for...whatever that was. Btw, after your recommendation of Rudi's original stroopwaffle, I got one the other day. Very nice. Good recommendation.

[@mickeyfilmer5551]

Erm... excuse me... about us Brits Pronunciation. Kansas is Kansas? Yes OK so why is ArKansas, ARKENSAW? Hmmm? Hmmm? wot ya gotta say? Eh?

[@evan]

“AMERICA EXPLAIN! I AM CONFUSION”

[@Trystan-k5s]

Haven't you heard the English is 3 languages in a trench coat? American English is that and then some. Some words can look alike but since they came from different backgrounds, be pronounced differently.

[@zaxchannel2834]

Blame the French

[@Blinkerd00d]

We have a lot of towns/rivers/cities that use Indian (native American) and French/ Cajun words....if the pronunciation is way off from it's phonetic spelling, that's likely the reason.

[@MrPhillip2]

It is a French rendition of a Native American location. And if you remember westward expansion, Arkansas came before Kansas, so we are right on the pronunciation (maybe the people in Kansas could read what was written 😮).

[@bradenfouts3169]

This is actually an excellent explanation of this issue in the US and I totally agree with you about roundabouts. I lived in Tallahassee and it felt like they had a lot more roundabouts than the average US city and loved the way roundabouts flow. Not only are they safer and easier to maintain, they reduce operating expenses for the average driver since they cause less brake wear and they reduce fuel consumption. I wish we had more roundabouts in the US, but it seems like it will take a while for Americans to accept them in their regular life.

[@geeb843]

It's worse than you say. In Miami-Dade County Florida, Red-light cameras are OK, but in Broward County, FL, they will be thrown out of court procedurally (they border each other). Unfortunately, your solution will be ineffective. There are quite a few traffic circles in my area, and absolutely no-one uses them correctly. Apparently, "yield to the traffic in the circle," in my experience, is too much of a struggle for drivers.

[@SmallSpoonBrigade]

Culture and driver's ed are essential to things like that being implemented. One of the big problems that I have is that the local DOT is putting a lot of infrastructure in that either doesn't have an established meaning or whose meaning is more recent than a good chunk of the drivers. The result is people not consistently using the changes that are being made and an additional distraction when driving.

[@TheJo1hn]

@geeb843 Could you explain what you mean when you say roundabouts are ineffective in the US? If we are considering safety, the speed of a collision will be much lower. You physically can't go full speed through a roundabout, eliminating deadly t-bone collisions.

[@RichardFoster]

​@TheJo1hn I live in an area where several new roundabouts have recently appeared. Drivers seem to fall into three basic categories: A) Folk who seem to think "yield" means they can just continue as fast as they want as long as they are going straight through. B) Folk who think they need to come to a full stop if there is anyone already in the roundabout who might want to cross in front of them. C) Drivers who actually understand roundabouts and drive through them sensibly. Anecdotally, I would say about 50% fall into category A, 30% in category B (which the category A folk find frustrating), and the rest in category C. As a side observation, it also seems to confuse the majority of other drivers if I use my turn signals to indicate if I am continuing on the roundabout or preparing to leave it.

[@empressmarowynn]

I lived in London for some time and when my sister moved to the Tampa area, which has tons of roundabouts, I had to teach her how to drive around one because she was clueless. She didn't understand how to yield even though there are signs at every single one telling approaching cars to yield. Also signs telling people to indicate when they're exiting so traffic flows smoother. But of course Big Foot sightings are more common than turn signal usage in Florida. I've driven all over the US and parts of Canada and nothing beats the horrors of Florida roads. Utter madness.

[@chickenfishhybrid44]

​@@RichardFosteruh obviously people Will increasingly learn and get comfortable with them. They've been in my area of the US for something like 20 years, no problems. I was a newer driver when we first got them and there were some issues but not bad enough that it was particularly memorable.

[@macinjosh2223]

Amazing video Evan! Funny how the british company decided that 3 seconds should be long enough to stop - here in the UK all traffic lights' amber lasts 3 seconds - no matter the speed limit, whether its 30 or 60, you got 3 seconds to stop! Some harsh braking required sometimes.

[@Heimbasteln]

Thats insane, here in Germany its 3s for anything 50kph or lower, 4s for 51-60 and 5s for 61-70kph. Traffic lights are not allowed to be used with speed limits over 70kph, so roads with higher speed limits will lower the speed to 70 before approaching a traffic light.

[@Leenapanther]

Using Diddy Kong Racing soundtrack, nice!

[@evan]

I was in between this song and Ancient Lake but I loved how this one hit the exact beats of my edit :)

[@ornitorrinco_en_la_caverna]

Congratulations on the 800k subs!

[@ghost307]

There are 2 unique things about the US that explain a lot: 1. The USA is no 1 country divided into 50 states, it's basically 51 independent states that share a flag 2. In many jurisdictions, the police unions are against these cameras because it shows how hard the beat officers work.

[@DylanSargesson]

Federalism isn't as rare as most Americans think it is. Many other countries in the world are federal systems too like Canada, Brazil, Germany, Russia.

[@chickenpommes19]

Canada, Mexico, Brasil, Germany, Austria, Australia, Russia, all countries that have states and provinces.

[@zew1368]

@@DylanSargessonAmericans are aware other countries have states, provinces, counties, whatever. US federalism is generally regarded as unique because of the level of power that states have.

[@DylanSargesson]

@@zew1368 That might be the perception in the US, but it doesn't make it true. All federations/confederations put a different powers at different levels. The Cantons of Switzerland are arguably more autonomous than the US states, for example - the national government hardly has any powers. Another good example is Belgium, where the different communities, regions and provinces don't even share the same sets of political parties they're that different.

[@zew1368]

@@DylanSargesson I would still argue the US is unique in regards to number of states, population of states, geographic size of states, and geographic size of the country and the relationship between the states and federal government. A system of Swiss federalism is easy with a country of that size. Idk about internal Russian politics, but I know that internationally, the eastern region definitely gets more say in how things go and the population is centered there.

[@derp3044]

i just watched ur video a couple hours ago then saw u also made the walmart video so I subscribed, and this pops up in my feed not long after 😂😂loving the content man keep up the good work

[@emcutts2575]

Would love a TFL fines video lmao … if there’s anything interesting content in that ☺️😂

[@robertnorman5073]

Its so cool to see places I've been to in South Jersey on KZbin

[@zaxchannel2834]

That's right, we had red light cams in NJ but then they decided they weren't worth bothering with for reasons. Also, yes I totally agree roundabouts would be awesome

[@andrewdreasler428]

16:14 When Electronic Toll Roads were being put up, motorists were complaining that the timestamps from the tolls would be handed over to the police so they could look for and fine speeders using that EXACT SAME MATH. People were REFUSING to get the transponders for electronic tolling until the tollway authorities PROMISED that they would not hand the timing data to the cops.

[@adonvonilesere5642]

maybe having speeding tickets go to the state budget would make sense, but the Feds have no business with traffic within the states

[@evan]

I agree! That’s a potential solution.

[@peter65zzfdfh]

Yeah it’s crazy having states and cities working against each other because one creates the laws and the other sees the benefits. Here cities don’t have police or any enforcement capabilities beyond parking fines. Everything is state based, no federal involvement. So just one level of government setting road rules, and the fines go towards road safety initiatives, which the state is fine with because they’re the ones funding the hospitals so safer roads are still benefiting them even if the fines aren’t. As a result the per capita road fatalities is a tiny fraction of that in the US, and has fallen over decades even as the population has multiplied many times.

[@atlasz911]

In many EU countries they introduced "objective liability". It means that if the driver is not known than the owner is paying the ticket. The value is usually set to 1/2 of what you count get on the spot. They save some detective and paperwork and you pay a bit less. You can contest but if you loose than you pay the full price. You can also decide to reveal the driver's identity. (I don't think that that is done too often.)

[@greylock2672]

Fellow New Jereseyan here. When the red light company came to our town council meeting to talk about installing the red light cameras. There was no talk about how it would help with safety . It was all about how much money it would bring into the townships coffers. The reps from the company were shocked when we did not sign a contract right there and then. Because we were like well if you can't actually say it would help with safety we don't want it.

[@andybaldman]

Wow! I want to live in your town.

[@randynovick7972]

In the US, we do have speeding assessed by timing. It's very common in the western states, on interstate highways. There are marks on the road at specific distances (like every quarter-mile or half-mile) and a loitering drone or small aircraft times cars & trucks between the two marks. Violaters can be stopped by an officer further ahead. Aircraft can also easily spot when a specific car is moving way faster than prevailing traffic.

[@MacroAggressor]

The UK plate reading stations sounds a lot like mass surveillance.... considering the other rampant public surveillance camera systems they've been rolling out in recent years, I'm not sure they're a great role model for these kinds of things.

[@renybass1]

It is, but “keeps them safer” 😂

[@joannebarber4845]

The main reason those check points along the highway wouldn't work is that drivers would speed up to the camera and then slow down and then speed up. In my state people speed up to a red light and then speed up to the next. and as for a round about, Many years ago my mom and I were trapped on one of those for 30 minutes trying to select the correct exit. With drivers these days I can see one going through the middle to get where they want to go.

[@UmbrellaCorpTeam]

That's how most UK drivers react to permanent speed cameras, slow down for the area it can track then speed back up.

[@kahleeb624]

I received a ticket for $200 for running a red light... the only problem was the red light was in a state I'd never been to, then the license plate they showed was the same but only with an L instead of a J as mine had.... they still gave me a hard time even AFTER I sent a picture of my actual car and license plate...

[@robertdavis3499]

Congrats on 800K Evan!

[@ylya_ylya]

About the average speed checks, Germany currently doesn't have them because of data security concerns. If your licence plate is scanned and you don't drive too fast, your plate was still registered for a bit and that means it a violation of the control of information about the driver (informationelle Selbstkontrolle) They tested it out in Lower Saxony for a bit and they even had to change police law for that and then there was a court case (I still kinda wish we had it especially because it is proven that it makes things safer in places where it is used...)

[@globalincident694]

This feels kind of nonsensical to me. I mean, you have to store information from a camera, otherwise you can't process the offence and send the information to the right people. Why is this any different?

[@barneylaurance1865]

@@globalincident694 I guess the difference is the instantaneous speed camera only takes a photo when someone seems to be speeding. The average speed camera takes photos of the license plates of completely innocent drivers, and has to store them at least long enough to see if they reach the next camera too quickly.

[@goaserer]

That was exactly the reasoning as such a system would also have to process data of innocent drivers and in the worst case the data could be used to create movement profiles if leaked or misused. It's not completely untrue but in the end arguing with privacy law in Germany is similar to calling checks unconstitutional in the US

[@globalincident694]

@@barneylaurance1865 "the instantaneous speed camera only takes a photo when someone seems to be speeding" Well no, that's not true either. Most cameras take a photo in order to determine whether a car is speeding. Otherwise how would they know? Unless you're talking about radar/loop detector equipped cameras.

[@aimerw]

@@barneylaurance1865 The crime still needs to be proved, it is just that the evidence is pretty strong. Instant speed cameras could easily be holding data on innocent people if proven to be faulty. The obvious solution seems to be to just delete the data after a period of time at which the average speed must be below. Depending on the speed limit and distance that time may be quite varied, however, I doubt it is more than a few minutes. Many countries have laws regarding how long data can be held, should be an easy law to pass for such a minischule period of time with automatic deletion.

[@SirBrainChild]

I lived in Dallas, TX during this time. The corruption indeed made driving more dangerous than before the cameras were installed. The yellow lights were shorted from 5 seconds to just 3, so short that people regularly began slamming their brakes on yellow lights avoid the camera fines. Then people behind slamming their breaks while screeching their tires to avoid rear-end collisions. I came close to several rear end colisiones myself. This occasionally led to horn honking, road rage, and ocasional rear-end collisions. I had about several close calls myself. Driving became dangerously unpredictable and stressful. This began to occur even at intersections that had no red light cameras but had sensor on top that somewhat resembled a camera. Add insult to injury, the hearing turned out to be an administrative hearing in a tiny spartan single room suite near a police station rather than a proper judge in a civil court. When you would out that the lights were short, the judges did not care, and the camera footage often did not show how short the yellow lights were. So we lost respect for them, the increased danger they posed, and the corruption and violation of rights they represented. People that were originally in favor of the cameras soon changed their minds after a few years. Since the fines were not criminal enforceable, many people never paid the fines. There was a "scofflaw" law that allowed counties to block registration for unpaid red-light cameras violations at the discretion of the tax assessor. It announced and enforced when registering online, but in practice it was rarely enforced in the offices because many of the tax assessors were against it. It was causing complaints and argumentes between citizens with the tax collectors for counties and delays in the lines before they were turned away and not allows to pay registration. When the loss of tax revenue with additional hassle, tax assessors began asking for the program to be banned. When they were banned, the tax lines shortened substancial, as more people began to register online again. After a few years, people stopped slamming on their breaks at yellow lights and traffic became predictable and less dangerous again.

[@BIoknight000]

If you can't slow down fast enough to not run a read light, you are going too fast and need to slow down.

[@AnimilesYT]

I'm also in my urban planning phase, so I'm glad you're also uploading videos about it

[@joetreadonme]

It is my understanding that the burden shifting issue turns on the fact that most jurisdictions give you the option to pay an amount like $100 or plead no guilty but if you plead not guilty and go to court the fine goes to $150 if you don't prove your innocence.

[@evan]

yes that's another thing I wanted to bring up

[@Brodathan]

In the free world you are innocent until proven guilty. That really sucks that wherever nazi country you live lacks basic human rights.

[@Komadaki]

I suspect the 6th Amendment argument against traffic cameras won't hold any water in the Supreme Court. If it did, then wouldn't it be impossible to prosecute certain cyber and financial crimes?

[@evan]

Yeah I'm absolutely of the same belief. I honestly don't think the 5th OR 6th amendment arguments would hold up in the supreme court as I feel they're just FAR too much of a reach. The issues with the third parties involved (issue 3) can also be more easily resolved to make them more agreeable by removing the third party and any financial incentives for local police. Just my opinion though.

[@trumpetbob15]

Not sure I agree. Many cyber crimes ARE hard to prosecute because you can't witness the person doing it. Financial crimes are usually a little different because there is often a piece of paperwork (a buy or sell order, for example) that meets the "intent" portion of the statute and acts as the witness as it has the person's signature.

[@SmallSpoonBrigade]

No, the difference is that most cyber and financial crimes leave some sort of a trail that can be followed. In the case of cybercrime, that mostly can't be prosecuted due to issues related to jurisdiction. Most of those crimes are from overseas in places like Russia or North Korea where the authorities don't really care as long as the money isn't being stolen from locals and they pay whatever relevant bribes/taxes are due on it. North Korea's major source of income is state sponsored cybercrime. As far as financial crimes go, there's a paper trail that has to be there, just having bad books isn't automatically a crime, but the people at the top are criminally liable for signing off on the books if there's any fraud going on. It's been like that since Enron. There's a ton of documents both from the company itself and from the financial institutions and other parties that are on the other ends of the transactions. A company that's cash only tends to be pretty small because it's impractical to pay for everything in cash and people being asked to pay for things in cash tend not to want to do so if it's for a lot of money just because of how shady that looks. Anyways, with all those documents to review, they'll find somebody that can testify to the accuracy, method of collection and usually the people who actually filled out the non-fraudulent bits from other companies. They may also find the people that filled out the fraudulent books, assuming they can be located. This is in opposition to the cameras where there's basically nothing to build a case on. The camera gets one view of the intersection, there is nobody there to testify to the conditions of the road at the time and even the driver gets the notice up to 16 days late around here, which means that there's plenty of time for the conditions of the intersection to change and for the driver to forget about any factors that might normally serve as defenses to the infraction.

[@thebaker8637]

In civil law countries (ie. most of Europe) traffic law is part of administrative law which carries what are equivalent to civil penalties in the UK/US, but one such penalty CAN be points on your license or disqualification to drive. I’m not sure why getting points or losing your license is linked to being found guilty of a crime in the US, after all driving is not a privilege but a right so the state has the right to control access to it the way it deems fit. No criminal law, no 6th amendment issue at all.

[@commentinglife6175]

@@thebaker8637 I'll be honest. It is absolutely hilarious to me to hear Europeans shout that driving is not a right when you are the same folks who somehow claim all kinds of things as "human rights" - such as demanding American tech firms delete true information as part of some right to forget. As for that argument in the US, I would wager it is dying - especially since one could go back to the ways of the founders and use a horse and the police would arrest them for interfering with traffic!

[@jdjphotographynl]

0:28 Wouldn't necessarily say speeding cameras are widely accepted in Europe, but rather turds in the punch bowl we just have to make do with... ;)

[@christopher9727]

.... Do you know Jesus Christ can set you free from sins and save you from hell today Jesus Christ is the only hope in this world no other gods will lead you to heaven There is no security or hope with out Jesus Christ in this world come and repent of all sins today Today is the day of salvation come to the loving savior Today repent and do not go to hell Come to Jesus Christ today Jesus Christ is only way to heaven Repent and follow him today seek his heart Jesus Christ can fill the emptiness he can fill the void Heaven and hell is real cone to the loving savior today Today is the day of salvation tomorrow might be to late come to the loving savior today Romans 6.23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. John 3:16-21 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. 21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God. Mark 1.15 15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel. 2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. Hebrews 11:6 6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. Jesus

[@socialturtleman]

so youre saying you've accepted the situation you're in? wild lmao

[@jdjphotographynl]

@@socialturtleman Nuance isn't your strong suit, is it?

[@cinnamoncat8950]

​@@socialturtlemanfrankly, i think accepting dangerous roads is far more wild

[@socialturtleman]

@@cinnamoncat8950 my dude stay out of this you seem lost. im making fun of the fact this dude said "i wouldn't say they're widely accepted just that we've widely accepted that they are there."

[@derbagger22]

Good video. Especially loved the mocking of the revenue aspect of cameras. Which has been the #1 issue all along. Fair enforcement. I learned at an early age how to defend myself from bogus traffic tickets. With the proliferation of cameras, I was indifferent. I go to fight the ticket, they need to bring some sort of human in to be counted as an "expert witness" and questioned. Without that, there is no case. I fight every ticket. If a jurisdiction decides to name it a civil matter, then I exhaust every option and then won't pay.

[@byteblaster_ee]

Also, they ticket the owner of the Vehicle, not the driver.

[@PancakePutin]

Finally someone said it!

[@HenriqueGarciaCosta]

Here in Brazil, they are implementing those average speed control cameras in some highways

[@embeddedautomation2464]

My wife is dissabled and I work full time, so she often asks family members or friends to take her to doctor's appointments. Having other people drive our vehicles has caused me to receive 3 automated speeding tickets from these enforcement cameras, when I wasn't even in the vehicle. What's worse is the companies who process the tickets have a section where they "swear" the person in the photo is me, but if you look at my driver's license photo you'd clearly see that it wasn't me. I'm now obligated to pay the ticket unless I send in a copy of my driver's license, a copy of the license of the person who was driving, and write a letter explaining why it wasn't me. This crap system makes you guilty until proven innocent, which is a perversion of justice, and merely serves to enrich corporations (who keep the majority of the money generated by the cameras). I'm thankful my state got rid of these tyranical cameras and the companies which operate them.

[@TRPGpilot]

ohh, I guess that you are "special"! If you were not the driver pass on the details of the driver who was driving while to offence was commited. How difficult is that? What makes YOU so special?

[@danstratyt]

I agree that privately owned cameras are a terrible idea but it could be much less bad if the state government in question just ran them by themselves. I would be interested to know why you can't just ask these people who got the fines to pay you for them, is it that you can see it's not you but can't see exactly who it is?

[@chickenpommes19]

Don't give your car to people who are going to speed then?

[@chublez]

​@@TRPGpilot He never implied he was exempt from speeding laws or "special". Simply pointed out one flaw in the system. Obviously turning in his wife's driver to exonerate himself would be a bit socially awkward at minimum. Further in what other crime are you required to catch and turn in the crook before your innocence is accepted. That's not how the law works in any other case. Imagine being accused of murder and told you not allowed free till you turn in who done it despite it not being you on the film doing the murdering. Ridiculous.

[@PhysicsGamer]

@@TRPGpilot Nobody's obliged to do that, and besides the ticket already swears that he's the one driving. Bit late to change it, at that point.

[@mandyliz84]

Not gonna lie. I sometimes miss driving on the interstate the first few months of the pandemic when there were mostly first responders on the road. We all drove really fast, but seemed to have a lot fewer accidents either because we had a higher percentage of professional vs regular drivers, because the roads weren’t as packed, or because the safety instincts and reaction times of the average driver went way up. It was really hard to slow down when the rest of the population returned to the roads around July or August 2020.

[@SmallSpoonBrigade]

Yes, but then people started to drive again and I nearly got killed 3 consecutive times I was walking home from work at the same intersection. It's only because I was keeping a sharp eye out that I wasn't run over.

[@bruce8443]

I love the idea of promoting traffic circles in the USA by calling them FREEDOM CIRCLES! 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@HumbleWooper]

Free from the oppression of stop lights making us stop even when nobody is coming the other way! ✊

[@gusmalone2005]

I was literally wondering if they have speed cameras in the US when I was driving to work yesterday. Great timing!

[@SmallSpoonBrigade]

Around here, we mostly have the stop light cameras. There are a few speed cameras, but they're mostly ones near school zones. Which is nuts, its' a camera of questionable constitutionality in an area with an unknowable speed limit. At least, they come with flashing lights that tell drivers that the speed limit is now 20mph. Rather than trying to guess if that's a short person or a kid, or if there's a kid a few feet around the corner or if there's going to be a cop claiming there's a child present that doesn't exist.

[@modithorson5261]

I thought the solution Evan was going to present was public transit, ah well. Still a excellent conclusion. Almost 800k!

[@JustAMonty]

Babe wake up, Evan posted

[@kevinmote2369]

Government surveillance is never a good solution to your problems.

[@Brodathan]

💯

[@joey0guy]

I worked for one of these traffic camera companies. They didn't put the name of the company on the side of the building because people keeped trying to shoot it up 😊

[@wubster100]

These traffic cameras are awful and should be banned. They don't increase safety, they just want money.

[@BIoknight000]

Stop breaking the law just because you feel like it

[@blueoval250]

@@BIoknight000stop licking the boot of your oppressor.

[@zanzabar4ky7]

There are 2 big companies that run the cameras for speed and red lights in Arizona. They have been caught multiple times setting yellow lights short and not calibrating speed cameras. They make red light intersections incredibly dangerous when they are allowed to operate them. Police and city have been caught cutting he yellows short, but the AZ companies do that a lot. The Newark and Millbrae CA systems were both remotely managed by the private companies.

[@tamarlindsay8382]

Compare the UK's "Magic Roundabout" to the USA's "White Horse Traffic Circle" in NJ. Could be interesting.

[@CyanideCarrot]

White Horse did finally remove that abomination and put in a normal roundabout a few years ago

[@cjlister8508]

The yellow to red timing makes no sense. Not by UK highway code anyway. You are meant to stop if its yellow, not run through in the hope it doesnt turn red.

[@lloydcollins6337]

I think the point was that the yellow timing was too short for drivers to react to the yellow light coming on (3 seconds isn't that long) and then they were immediately ticketed for driving through a red light less than a second after it went red.

[@SmallSpoonBrigade]

@@lloydcollins6337 Yes, the yellow phase is supposed to be long enough that if cars are approaching the light and can't safely stop they can proceed before it turns to red. But, the time after it turns to red is supposed to also be enough of a wait that people in the intersection weren't allowed to legally enter the intersection due to the rules surrounding being allowed to do so if it's not safe to stop. It's supposed to be about safety, but if it's not done properly, it can lead to problems.

[@RPSchonherr]

Traffic cameras are a violation of this amendment: [Fourth Amendment The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized. ] By using a camera you are no longer secure in your person and possibly papers from unreasonable search or a search without a warrant.

[@ZzzyaxTheCuber]

Buckinghamshire mentioned 🇬🇧

[@aurora6920]

Yess Milton Keynes, the place of grid systems and roundabouts!

[@namelesswalaby]

Frankly I’m glad that a camera alone can’t be used to convict me in court. That’s a very slippery slope slope just like civil asset forfeiture where your stuff gets seized by the cops and the first stop to get it back is an interrogation by the DA.

[@OntarioTrafficMan]

I've always found it wild that multiple cities got caught with deficient yellow light durations. Any citizen can easily time the exact duration by taking a video and looking at the timestamps, the engineering manuals are available for free, the formulas are simple and a lot of people have a financial incentive to check (if they get a ticket).

[@aurora6920]

This is why I love Milton Keynes, you should check it out Evan! it's a grid system of roundabouts so you don't get stuck in traffic there and redways/under paths everywhere to make it easy for cyclists to not be on the road.

[@CreamCobblerFiend]

I prefer dangerous traffic to constant surveillance.

[@danm4320]

This "surveillance" is a DSLR with a flash to capture cars at high speed. Hardly surveillance.

[@vacronda]

Amazing video. I feel that road safety is one of the major U.S. only problems of this decade. And one soooo easy to solve... and so infuriating that no one is doing anything about it.

[@productjoe4069]

Do road signs next! Vienna Convention pictograms vs US text heavy signs and the different ways wayfinding is implemented in the US vs EU. One of my geeky graphic design loves is signage systems (up to and including how the typefaces are designed for different navigation needs).

[@dontworry1302]

I'm not sure where the impression that MUTCD signs are text heavy comes from. Nearly every sign is either pictogtaphic or pictographic and textual.

[@productjoe4069]

@@dontworry1302 text-heavy not text-only. The MUTCD seems to use more text and more frequently than the Vienna Convention equivalents. It also provides very tight spacing on the text (both margins and kerning) which makes it feel denser and more aggressive.

[@vandahm]

In Minnesota these cameras were banned by the courts -- and I think they should been -- because of the presumption of innocence. The camera can detect that my car ran a red light, but to issue a ticket by mail, cops have to assume that I was the one driving my car when the violation took place. If I *wasn't* -- if it was my spouse driving the car, or if I lent my car to a friend or let one of my kids drive it, I would then be forced to prove my innocence. But it's illegal for the government to accuse someone and then force them to prove their innocence -- anyone accused by the government is presumed to be innocent until the government can prove their guilt. In practice, it doesn't always work that way, but it is supposed to work that way, and the Minnesota courts decided that it wasn't happening.

[@TalesOfWar]

I love it when Americans claim something to be unconstitutional based on an AMENDMENT that by its very name means it was added or changed at some point since the thing was originally written, thus proving things can change as the times do. I also love how America has privatised many of the things that absolutely should never, ever have any kind of profit motive involved like law enforcement, prisons and health care thus leading to the worst outcomes. Unless you're the one making money from it of course.

[@Jamie_D]

glad you love it,don't think they do 😅😉🤣

[@johnmoe6055]

To be fair, the first 10 amendments were passed within a few years of the constitution coming into effect. No amendment has been proposed and ratified in more than 50 years.

[@robw3610]

Please don't make statements like this about my country when you very clearly have no clue what you are talking about... The first 10 Amendments are original to our Constitution and are called the Bill of Rights. You can make that argument potentially with later Amendments but not in the Bill of Rights. Yes our Constitution can be, and sometimes is changed, and that is by design, because our country's founders could not see the future and account for everything. You'd be hard pressed to find any American complain about things like the 4th, 5th, or 6th Amendments. Secondly, I think the issues with these automated systems are dreadfully understated in this video. As an engineer who designs and deploys LPR systems professionally, you'd be surprised how inaccurate the technology really is. I'm sure it probably works better with European style license plates, but the designs, placements, and fonts of these plates are so varied, it makes it very difficult to accurately read them via software. This becomes less of an issue with things like red-light cameras because a human typically has to review the photo. But an automated "Average speed" zone would be very difficult to implement here because at both the entrance and exit of the zone, each set of cameras has a 5%-10% chance of misreading your plate, and thus not be able to time you. There's a reason that the few states that deploy these only do so in limited areas and capacity.

[@DakotaTheRota]

@@robw3610 Does this person actually think it's BAD to be able to change the law of the land? They seem like a simpleton to say it nicely.

[@stevenclark2188]

To be blunt. Do your homework. The American constitution without the amendments is just a document structuring the government. It guarantees no rights to the citizens and most rights arise from a particular amendment (with a few arising from judicial precedent, and maybe some laws).

[@toomanykatsu]

Ugh this is why traffic is so bad in Seattle, there’s a LOT of transplants coming here. We don’t have any laws that require you to retake your drivers license test or at least the written test so that people understand the difference in laws and IN TERRAIN between states, which they really should. Like, my ex came here from Florida, which is flat…like no hills no curves, everything is straight lines, I think he would have been a safer and more confident driver if he had to at least read the damn driver’s manual before changing his Florida license to a Washington one. AND IT WOULD MAKE TRAFFIC BETTER. thank you.

[@PurpleNurpleReviews]

It's mad to me how the USA sets so many of its laws in a 250 year old document and become very protective over it. It's one thing using it as a guide and to update it over time - but they're very reluctant to add amendments frequently it seems. Times are very different to when it was written...

[@RockerTopper-hh3ru]

Seeing as the constitution is the highest law in the land and the legal document against which all other laws at all other levels are measured, how else would you suggest treating it? Also, yes the constitution is supposed to be hard to change so that it is always relevant as comparatively few things are so timeless as to require being enshrined in such an important document. Federal and state laws may come and go, but the amendments to the constitution should (ideally anyway) be forever given just how almightily difficult it is to amend the bloody thing (though not always, as the 21st amendment repealing the 18th amendment is a perfect, and thus far the only, counter example, not to mention a cautionary tale against being too zealous to implement something so trendy of a time into the highest law of the land, only to be completely ignorant to the devastating consequences of doing so)

[@Yandarval]

@@RockerTopper-hh3ru To rake up the old Chestnut of the US and firearms. There was nothing more advanced than Black power single shot before reloading flintlock weaponry, when the Second Amendment was written. Yet the US has all sorts of regulation and legislation around firearms. Yet the there has been no amendment to the Second Amendment wording. Only ignoring the "A well regulated Militia," part of it. The judge in this case should have thrown the traffic cases out. Again, at the time of writing. It would have been impossible for a witness not to be a Human. Calling the operators of the camera and bringing relevent data from the camera, would have sufficed as a witness.

[@cs8712]

reject modernity embrace tradition

[@RockerTopper-hh3ru]

@@Yandarval counterpoint, enforcing laws is and should be expensive and convictions should never be guaranteed so restricting who or what can actually make a convicting accusation to officers of the law authorized by the state to wield deadly force (a comparatively expensive means of enforcing laws) forces the state to decide if and to what extent enforcing a law is actually a worthwhile use of limited public tax resources, which I would generally consider to be a wise and studious means of ensuring a balance between individual liberty on the one hand and occasionally warranted state intervention in the other. This is also why your point about the second amendment doesn’t particularly hold up: part of the Declaration of Independence says that the citizenry have a right to get rid of their government if it becomes tyrannical and having a well-armed populace is a good means of incentivizing the government to not piss off it’s citizens too bad if not necessary keep them happy (not to mention the litany of other benefits that come from the populace generally being well-armed, such as markedly lower crime rates since would-be criminals can more plausibly assume there will be immediate and deadly real-world consequences to their crimes doled out by their would-be victims).

[@peter65zzfdfh]

⁠​⁠@@RockerTopper-hh3ruthe 2nd amendment reads as if it was to keep the US citizens free from foreign governments (‘security of a free state’) not its own (it would say people, not state). In either case it’s no longer effective given governments use drones, artillery, aircraft and nuclear weapons, against other states and their own people if necessary. All it does is let you die younger than people in any other developed country. The implication about it being to prevent tyranny is wishful thinking, and a violation of what it actually says. Anyone who read it as such has managed to change it. The US has much higher violent crime rates due to the 2nd amendment precisely because people can assume they will come up against someone armed they always shoot first. While ‘defense’ almost necessarily required shooting second, in a situation where you were less prepared than the attacker. It’s also why cops shoot citizens more in the US, they’re justified in thinking they may be armed. Whereas in other countries that’s an unreasonable assumption, and thus people in reality are actually more free of tyranny. Some of the most tyrannical governments out they have more weapons per cities than any other. They can only keep their power by being tyrannical.

[@PiersDJackson]

In Australia we have similar cameras everywhere, just not nearly as much of an Orwellian state as UK... however on our main interstate routes we have the "Average Speed Cameras" (also on tollways), one particular quirk is that they identify "commercial vehicles" by the ubiquitous three amber lamps on the roof, above the windscreen.... and as the traditional speed limit for "cars" is 110kph (~70mph), and "heavy vehicles" are restricted to 100kph (62½mph), there have been lads who've modified their ute (pick-up or coupe truck), a "car" to have these lights, and receive speeding fines for travelling at 106kph in the 110kph zone, also being charged as a commercial vehicle on toll ways, a matter of 25%-40% upcharge.

[@TheDougditto]

A small town kind of near I-95 in SC tried putting up speed cameras on 95. They were raking in a ton of money from fines. Enough people, from a lot of states, complained and our legislators passed a law banning unmanned speed cameras. As a retired cop, I am good with that. Most cops take constitutional protections very seriously.

[@evan]

Interesting! I wonder if it was due to it being done by a third party for the "unmanned" argument?

[@gorak9000]

"Most cops take constitutional protections very seriously" - haha, you haven't watched a single cop video on yt then - I'd say it's the exact opposite - most cops don't even know what the constitution IS, never mind what it says or means!

[@SmallSpoonBrigade]

Freeways should never have cameras on them that aren't from the federal government. And really, they shouldn't have ones from the feds either. Any signs and signals on those stretches should be purely for the purposes of safety and efficiency of travel. I kind of like the variable speed limit signs that we have here. They slow traffic a bit miles ahead of the backup to reduce the likelihood of the traffic completely shutting down later on.

[@Heimbasteln]

I think speed cameras are better because they dont discriminate against drivers. Some cop might let some drivers slide because he thinks they are cool, while he wouldnt let others slide, which is unfair.

[@BIoknight000]

So the city tried to put speed cameras on the Interstate? The interstate that is owned by SC? Not the surface street with exits next to the Interstate?

[@HonoraryBoomer]

YES! Call it a Freedom circle and no one can be against it! What, do you hate freedom?! 🦅 🤠

[@no_name4796]

It's funny how every single problem in the US can be easily tracked back to capilitism In this case, the root of the problem being private companies operating speed cameras, and the even more root of the problem is cars being virtually the single methof of transit present in the us

[@disorganizedorg]

I don't think it's capitalism per se; it's more greed enabled by capitalism that I see as the problem.

[@Diddy_claps_Meek_Mill]

It has nothing to do with capitalism.

[@Tony-op6xf]

Trains have entered the chat..

[@doomsdayrabbit4398]

​@@Diddy_claps_Meek_MillIt has _everything_ to do with capitalism. All the way back to the *private* railroad companies foisting their unprofitable passenger rail divisions onto the state and federal governments while retaining full control over their rail rights-of-way.

[@derbagger22]

Those automobile factories pumped out plenty of war machines that took on two fronts in WWII. And that war, with the vast USA covered in smaller roads, spurred on the Eisenhower Interstate System. Europeans can raise their noses to the American useage of the automobile. But they have never been all over the US. Sure, more trains might help. But they could never replace the car. I love hearing any foolish argument that they could in the US. Foolish....

[@traffic.engineer]

Kansas Turnpike actually does write tickets if they measure time is less than allowable under the speed limit between tolling gates. So you can speed, but still have to stop at the service station

[@VoxelLoop]

It's also worth mentioning that UK speed cameras are generally '10% + 2', so a camera in a 30 zone is set for 35, on a motorway 77. This allows you to, for example, be passing someone, following faster traffic, etc. There's no 'You were doing 31 in a 30' weirdness like in the US.

[@lloydcollins6337]

Officially you can get prosecuted if you are 1mph over the limit, just like if you blow 36 on a breath test (the legal limit being 35) then you are breaking the law. However, there is an allowance built into the process to reduce the number of prosecutions which could be challenged due to machines being misaligned etc (even though they have to conform to legally mandated calibration standards). For speeding it varies by region but most do 10%+2mph or 10%+4mph. For drink driving the police will not prosecute below a reading of 40, and between 40 and 50 you may request a blood test in addition to the breath test in case the machine is faulty.

[@paulqueripel3493]

One of our drivers at work was sent a fine for 21 or 22 in a 20, not sure which. I pass that camera a few times a week, I'm being careful now.

[@evan]

Yes I think I learned that from the ol Blackbelt Barrister

[@peter65zzfdfh]

@@paulqueripel3493I once got a fine for being a couple over, I can tell you I was going much faster by my speedometer. I think they build the margin into the alleged speed so that most people think better of challenging it. If it comes to court they can say the registered speed was actually higher and that all error margins have already been accounted for.

[@dealbreakerc]

​@@paulqueripel3493yeah, then don't speed durr

[@davidburrow5895]

Some states (like Illinois) actually do use those average speed cameras on tollroads to generate estimated travel times that are posted on signs. Even in those instances they aren't used to fine vehicles, though.

[@happychap8457]

"my freedom to act like a bell end trumps all the death." new American slogan it seems. - Also in uk you have the option of doing a speed awareness course the first time you are caught. you have to pay for it but it is less than a fine and you dont get points. i had the fun of doing one a couple of months ago because i did 60 in a 50. course was actually quite sensible too.

[@robinhillyard6187]

There’s a pretty fundamental difference between highway driving in the UK and the US. In the UK, people pay attention to the speed limits. Yes, there are a few scofflaws but the majority of the cars (and all the heavy goods vehicles) stick to the speed limit (70 mph). In the US, nobody pays any attention to the speed limits. I regularly drive on highways near me with speed limits of either 55 or 65. Yet everyone is doing at least 65 on all these roads, frequently up to 80. So, in the UK, you’re safe driving the same speed as everyone else. In the US, you’re not-you can get ticketed-and it won’t be cheap.

[@adamogden5212]

i want to visit the UK next year but I couldn't imagine dealing average speed cameras and speed cameras everywhere and getting tickets for do 26 in a 25.

[@diamond_player]

Uk only have speed limit ending with 0 so you won’t see any 25mph limit and we tend do have a leniency of about 10%+2 as Speedo tends to overreads your speeds, usually in 20 zones there will be enough traffic calming and parked cars so that you stay below 20 and other zones just use cruise control.

[@diamond_player]

And for average speed check and speed camera there will be signs warning you that you are about to come up to them and drivers around will slow anyway

[@eloquentlyemma]

Just use public transport instead -it’s so much easier. Most places are linked by trains and busses.

[@TRPGpilot]

@@eloquentlyemma Why would I want to leave my car at home and travel with unwashed people on public transport? You must have been joking!

[@xorsyst1]

When you enter an average speed zone: Stick your cruise control at that speed. Or just drive with the rest of the traffic, everyone else will be sticking to the speed limit in these zones. But the main US/UK difference is that most people don't tend to speed much in the UK anyway as the speed limits tend to be higher on a similar class of road. So a "natural" speed is likely to be within the limit in the UK, but 10 over in the US.

[@eltamarindo]

When I first encountered Speed Control when visiting the UK long ago, It was a explained to me as a way of reducing jockeying for position on crowded motorways and as a way of increasing the overall carrying capacity of the motorway during high traffic times. On my visits, the speed control signs are not always switched on and seemed to switch on during higher than average traffic. Based on my experience, I do not think that Average Speed Control is a technology meant solely to reduce speeding. It may allow cars to follow each other more closely, reduce air pollution from stop-and-go, and allow traffic engineers to reduce pressure on traffic bottlenecks ahead.