Why Is Helldivers 2 Dying?

[@DKGCastle]

"Players find solutions and those solutions get removed" - AH Balance Team, probably

[@Malidictus]

Someone on the forums said it quite well: "You removed a solution, but didn't address the problem."

[@drb0mb]

"players find ways to cheese the game and make exploits apparent" is probably a better way to describe it

[@50-FIFTY]

@@drb0mb apparently everything that's fun in this game is an exploit or not working as intended. if that's true then i guess the devs are even more incompetent than they seem

[@StormTrooperEX]

making the enemies more oppressive while nerfing weapons into the ground at the same time is beyond moronic

[@vertigo1522]

true indeed

[@fortsquidward04]

It's undemocratic

[@zbyszanna]

Whether it's moronic or not would depend on the initial parameters. It's very well possible to still have overpowered weapons and enemies that are too tame after increasing their intensity and nerfing weapons at the same time.

[@pawel3241]

probably a diversity hire decision 🤣

[@juniorelizondo4144]

​@@zbyszanna bootlicker.

[@gumbercules3925]

The balance team thinks guns should suck.... in a shooting game.

[@Bamfony0]

Against damn near bullet proof carapace having alien bugs, and what may as well be AR500 bots. I dunno dude, OhDough has just been nay-saying the last month or two and can't get it through his head about some themes or ideas the studio is trying to get across. I love the game as is because if Helldive is too stressful and unfair....I move down the difficulty. Crazy concept am I right? This isn't Diablo. This is Helldivers where Helldive is literal Hell.

[@DutchGuyMike]

Nah, Alexus ruined the game (he's the guy that WAS in charge of balancing & mucked it all up, that is why the CEO went to CCO - head of balancing essentially)..

[@targitausrithux2320]

@@Bamfony0ignoring the entire context and general argument… people like you really are just yes men who believe devs killing their game is ok

[@dmar3651]

​@Bamfony0 Im a Helldive player. And the reason I stopped playing wasn't because it was hard. It's because the game became less fun with each patch. Out of touch devs ruin a good game. Seen it loads of times.

[@vozzy06]

​@@DutchGuyMikeWait so the old ceo is in the balancing team now?

[@gameplayer42069]

"Bile titans now take less damage when spewing." I take it these devs have never seen any movie or played any game where the exact opposite is the case: that being their weak spot. Then again the Railgun was the perfect example that they couldn't know less about risk vs reward.

[@damienmcdonald7610]

I get what you're saying, an open mouth is surely the weakest spot there is right? But I do sort of understand the mechanic too because the bike spew could weaken a projectile or detonate it early. I think it would be better if explosive weapons like the EAT, recoilless, AC, AMR (not explosive but it's a solid projectile) and grenade launchers should all be a guaranteed one shot to the open mouth of a bile titan while it's charging for a spew or just after the spew and the balance would be that during mid spew the damage would be vastly reduced. For Lazer type weapons like both Lazer cannons and the railgun the bile titans open mouth should do an increased amount of damage, not affected by the spew and this would give both weapon types a different advantage to each other. Just my opinion though obviously

[@mr.tolato5804]

or that they didn't even know that it was bugs causing things to be "to good", and just nerfed everything to the ground

[@nitrumlegal7470]

@@damienmcdonald7610 but why it still does less damage when i hit him in the head where he is not spewing

[@dztrict1000]

idk why people complain about the railgun, it just got durable damage reduced and some armor pen buffs. As of right now its an amazing weapon against terminids, and to some extent automatons as well but it struggles big time with heat sinks and gunships

[@npcimknot958]

Ya. The mouth is suppose to be the weakest point.. even godzillla spat into the mouth

[@spyker_aileron]

Democratic detonation was a perfect opportunity to add fire resistance as an armor passive instead of yet another explosive resistance armor set.

[@MisterZimbabwe]

To be fair, the theme was explosives, not incendiaries.

[@thestickybandits7320]

There are a number of amazing and fun ideas that I've seen suggested; there's enormous potential in this game for lots of future content. What feels bad is that the dev team just does not seem to be equipped to deliver. Helldivers will probably be a really good game at some point, but the consistent misses we've seen with underwhelming weapons, uninspired armor, and bafflingly bad balance undercut that trust to a point where I don't know that they'll be able to earn it back. It feels like there's a lot riding on this next patch, and they themselves are hyping it up quite a lot, but I'll be surprised if we see a turnaround in active players. Here's hoping they hit a home run, but I'm not holding my breath.

[@CrunchyLeaf10]

​@@MisterZimbabweincendiary impact was in that warbond and considering they had 3 armor sets in it they could've at least added one fire armor

[@LaserTractor]

@@thestickybandits7320devs be like: "fun ideas, sci fi things that will fit in perfectly? Cool designs that won't harm the lore? NAH REALISM IS THE KEY. Let's make milsim!!"

[@spartan117407]

as far has i know nothing stop them from changing steeled veteran armor and give it fire resistance and more throw range, the limb health thing has no impact as you stim anyway at any injury or your just dead and spawn back full in health.

[@closerthanchaos]

The realism excuse goes out the window when you have a hand held revolver doing more damage than a sniper rifle or even an AR.

[@Wulfjager]

shhh, shut up! if the devs hear you theyll drop its damage to 25 a round!

[@Malidictus]

Or, you know... Lasers and Phasers and all the Ogradys. We can have a weapon that just magics balls of anti-tank destruction out of thin air and that's fine, but heaven forbid a machinegun have too many rounds in the magazine. That's realistic. Because apparently Helldivers have access to either impossible sci-fi guns or really boring Cold War era firearms. FFS - the MG43 has the scope mounted on the top cover in the year 2XXX and I'm still running around with a six-shooter.

[@desto13c]

Upcoming warbonds sleeveless vs bile acids. Yeah.

[@Spudtatochip]

The fact that realism is even considered in a futuristic sci fi pve game is just short bus.

[@jacktheripper7935]

Dude the pummeler is litteraly a concussive liberator but better in every aspect while being one-handed 😂

[@griffgoldstein6378]

when the Balance team wasn't even playing the game you know there is a problem

[@LeftJoystick]

I am convinced they cannot clear a level 7, much less a level 9. Didn’t they have a dev stream where they failed a lvl 5?

[@Boamere]

@@LeftJoystick yes, pilstedt even said that he needs his team to spend more time actually playing the game

[@luizviniciusvieiraalexandr4979]

problaby the worst balacing team ever. they should do like war thunder, have a Dev server before doing anything on the live server.

[@johndank2209]

this is what happens when you only rely on the numbers (math). “Theory will take you only so far”

[@nic0vide0]

100% nailed it. To me it's insane to release patches and warbonds that don't get people excited because every weapon is worse than the next.

[@Malphorus]

and if it isn't, they nerf it into the ground lol

[@PonsterMenis98]

Literally been using the tenderizer and scythe against bots 99% of missions last few days. Both feel awesome.

[@fire_drake12.arc.24]

@@PonsterMenis98 more power to you if you can enjoy objectively shit weapons, doesnt mean they should be garbage and shouldnt be buffed though all because you like them as-is.

[@likeAG6likeAG6]

@@Malphorus yep

[@riven4121]

Doesn't help that a lot of the new primary rifles just feel like the liberator but crap gimmick. And the new warbond has another one

[@cobc11]

I’m convinced the devs hit the nail on the head with the core gameplay loop at launch by complete accident and then went on to make it worse with each subsequent patch out of incompetence or outright malice

[@nic0vide0]

I just think they don't know what they are doing. They are to blame 100%. This player base was really rooting for them.

[@kotztotz3530]

No reason for malice, just the complete incompetence of Alexus and whoever was backing up Alexus's decisions.

[@lewchootrain]

I mean you can tell me whatever new patch is out I still think the core gameplay is repetitive. Diablo at least comes out with new seasons.

[@shemsuhor8763]

They didn't. Muh "core gameplay loop" barely exists. Pure copium for people who got suckered into buying this game and saying things like "it's the game of the year." A few balance patches shouldn't have tanked the fun of the game. The fact is the game is badly designed and has nearly no content. Their balance patches have made that worse, but the truth was always there. Problem is 2024 has been unbelievably mediocre - a barren wasteland of nothing good being released - so by comparison HD2 looked incredible despite major things like flamethrowers not working, Spear STILL not working (ostensibly the Spear is THE vanilla 'heavy killer' weapon and it doesn't fucking do its job even when it locks on), diving causing you to fall through the floor, and so on.

[@WitD2013]

100% this. HD2 on launch was the best it ever was I think... and it was still buggy as hell with armor not working etc

[@strongback6550]

The reason why helldivers stopped being interesting to me was because it felt like being shoehorned into few viable builds. They were super happy nerfing strong weapons and strategems, but incredibly lethargic with buffing worthless weapons and strategems. Fun is more important than Balance. If players become too powerful, increase difficulty.

[@lutherheggs451]

It has nothing to do with "viable builds" or whatever other garbage the cancer meta kids are crying about. The game is just supposed to be FUN and what works for you, not what weapons you saw in a cancer kid build video telling you what to use so you can be a 1 shot god. Their biggest problem is they raised the spawns so high and nerfed the weapons into the ground. It doesn't matter what weapons its not a build/one shot god mode game.

[@tabithal2977]

​@lutherheggs451 that's exactly what "viable builds" means because right now there aren't any. There is nothing you can do to make yourself more effective because everything is equally ineffective besides literally two weapons. And when everything sucks you can use anything and it'll perform about the same because they all suck. That's where this idea that HD2 doesn't have a meta, because there is no "Most Effective Tactic Available" because none of them are effective.

[@fire_drake12.arc.24]

@@lutherheggs451 it has almost entirely as much to do with viable builds as it does with poor enemy balance. Pre-nerfs weapons were already just "ok" scraping by to be viable. They needed major buffs. The nerfs just made it so that the 3-5 usable things we had became the 3-5 things that are now shittier but still not quite as shit as 95% of the rest of our arsenal. Enemy spawns being broken would be far less frustrating if the weapons and strategems we had to deal with them werent sub-par trash. The problem is our equpment was never good to begin with, it already couldnt handle enemies well enough BEFORE spawns were broken, now spawns are broken and it has just made it even more evident. The root cause is poor weapon balance. The overall cause is developer incompetence and poor understanding of balance. There will always be a META, i try to avoid it myself. But the problem is in order to not play META you have to make yourself even more powerless than the people playing the already sub-par META options we have. You should be able to play off-META and still be effective, the issue is you cant and that reason is due to poor weapon balance which makes the amount of viable builds countable on one hand. You cant get rid of META builds, its literally human nature to find the most effective way to do something, but you can atleast make the other options not so lackluster in effectiveness in comparison that its not even worth trying. If weapon balance was better, enemy spawns would be more of just another annoying bug people would be willing to just deal with till its fixed, than a game breaking issue that makes people uninstall for good.

[@Drummerx04]

​@@tabithal2977 what do you mean none of them are effective? Tons of weapons work quite well. Now, if you aren't working together at all you may not have an effective method to deal with every problem all the time, but you absolutely have effective options.

[@hotpenguin607]

They wanted to make more builds viable by nerfing stronger ones. This leaves ppl being even more desperate to find the meta build instead of playing literally whatever and still feel strong. I can still make a lot of bad weapons and strategems work at Helldive against both bots or bugs, be it solo or pub, but it's not fun.

[@generalrendar7290]

9:28 Slugger got nerfed because it made the DMRs look bad, and they didn't want to buff the DMRs.

[@earthtaurus5515]

That was annoying as hell I took my time in unlocking the weapons so as to enjoy it more as sort of self induced progression mechanic... instead I started enjoying the game less. I unlock the slugger have some fun and next day... nerfed... and the damn weapon is pages and pages down to unlock. Where is the incentive to play the game to unlock weapons when they'll just get bloody nerfed?

[@Malidictus]

But that's always the case with Arrowhead. It's like that joke that Pilestedt actually responded to: "It's like you're an auto shop and someone brings in a car with a flat tyre, your solution is to flatten the other three."

[@jjprs3062]

They nerfed the slugger by taking away its shotgun like characteristics and turning it into more of a dmr

[@earthtaurus5515]

@@Malidictus Not just flatten the other three, put in "new" tires that are bald and then flatten them infront of the customer and go "there you go, good as new, that'd be 10,000 bucks". Since you need the car for work as well as the 100 mile trip back home... you can only sputter and cough up. The alternative being 100 miles walk back home. The third being to look at the idiot dumbfounded until they exclaim they were joking and they put in new windshield wipers for the incovenience. Yet failing to mention they've also shrunk the gas tank.

[@geronimo5537]

Meanwhile scorcher has been the best dmr all along. Yet dmr's all still suck in their role.

[@randomxgen6167]

When they constantly make the game less fun to play, less people have fun playing it

[@Nycoorias]

Define fun!

[@jacktheripper7935]

​@@Nycoorias having weapons not shooting peas as bullets against walking bulldozers having more armor than an entire bunker.

[@fellowshipofgaming847]

It's funny because even in a dedicated group like mine, no one wants to wear the backpack to help someone else reload.

[@primisto7530]

I just don't understand the design concept of having to wear the backpack to reload the person carrying the weapon. It makes no sense from a teamplay perspective, since it discourages backpack reloading and it makes no sense from a realism perspective since pulling the shell from your back rather than from the back of the person with the gun would still be equally quick

[@fellowshipofgaming847]

@@primisto7530 yeah, I think if they would have just let the other player pull the ammo from the guy with the gun and reload him would have been better design.

[@Esotericism72]

Well I mean thats beacuse its rare to team reload. On maximum difficulty 80% of the time you get so swarmed you legit HAVE to split up or people start dolphin diving to make distance and ur naturally too far from ur teammate for a timely reload.

[@Wulfjager]

the only time i have ever had other people reload is when someone else in the match also brought an autocannon and we use our personal ammo on one another

[@Odog78]

Team reloads should work, regardless of who has the pack.

[@convergence1point]

Alexus “tWo bUiLdZ” completely gutted the balance. What he did to the eruptor is the peak level of stupid.

[@spamquisition4046]

The Crossbow Nerf was beyond odd too like who thought the crossbow needed a nerf?

[@uncleulysses2328]

@@spamquisition4046 i remembered thinking the Xbow would be buffed cause literally everyone and their granny was calling it dogshit lmao. Then they nerf it a week into existence. Idk how they thought balancing on spreadsheets make sense not to mention the weapons are new. Of course they will be the most used weapons lmao. If balance kept going the same the entire community could have all used the worst weapon in the game for a week and it would have been nerfed a month later

[@earthtaurus5515]

@@spamquisition4046 The crossbow nerf was retarded... it completely removed it's entire purpose lol.

[@Malidictus]

His argument that "40 damage always is better than 100 damage sometimes" is very telling. That wasn't one instance of 100 damage the Eruptor lost. It was I believe 5 instances. Those were also impact damage with very generous falloff, vs. more explosive damage with fairly significant falloff. Not to mention all the body parts which ignore explosive damage. It gave the impression that he... didn't actually know how the weapon worked.

[@uncleulysses2328]

@@Malidictus not to mention penetration lmao. The shrapnel pen+ explosion is what made it strong. Add to that the fact the fucking gun released with a bug that cause explosions to suck targets inward (which gave a slight buff to the AC and GL) they basically released a mini vacuum launcher which created a death ball forcing all of the shrapnel to hit. I remember hitting a group of small bots and having 30 suck into eachother giving me a 30 kill in one bullet

[@schonfeld5158]

alexus happened

[@kotztotz3530]

Came here to say this too 😅

[@justinmedeiros7600]

Literally

[@apersonthatis7007]

Nailed

[@WackNoir]

Who’s that

[@circleofsorrow4583]

Hello Divers 2.

[@Planterobeets]

I mean, the CEO himself had to step down to try and fix the game; that alone is massive proof of how badly the game was being balanced; let's hope this Thursday we get some meaty buffs

[@Someguy6571]

Honestly my opinion on that was he was pressured out by Sony.

[@mikevsworldofficial]

This makes no sense, he's now the Chief Creative Officer there overseeing the development in a more hands on way then ever before. Sony has no power over Arrowhead, they just funded the games development and had them agree to some terms and conditions. That's it.​@@Someguy6571

[@MHader-v2i]

@@Someguy6571🤣🤡 STFU. Its not that deep dumby. You sound so dumb

[@KrimsonStorm]

​@@Someguy6571that doesn't make any sense. He's still in charge. He's the chairman as well as CCO. Yes the CCO reports to the CEO, but the CEO reports to the board chairman. Sony has no power whatsoever.

[@TJackson736]

The CEO said this patch will not affect balance

[@mawnkey]

I still remain convinced there were/are two major issues: 1) Alexus is an untalented tool that shouldn't be allowed to balance a personal checkbook, much less weapons for a successful game. 2) Even more important the development team seemed to lack a release manager and did absolutely no QA, two things that are _fundamental development team concepts_ no software of any kind should be without.

[@shemsuhor8763]

it's baffling that they seeming don't have a multi-step DEV environment for what was pitched as a "live service" game. This whole "pity the small team" thing doesn't work when the product you pitched isn't the product you're delivering. If your team was too small, then make a less ambitious product. Further, this game had a 7 year development cycle as I understand it. There's no way the "new" content is actually being made in real-time.. right? Surely at least the first year of content releases was buffered and planned for.... and we're not actually playing an Early Access game...r...right?

[@Boamere]

Did you guys see the airburst rocket launcher leaks? It was really good there, looked like a viable alternative to the cluster airstrike, then the thing releases and it's awful. It makes me think the devs who make the weapon gave it some numbers that were in the correct ballpark and then alexus got his hands on it and completely shafts it. I hope he is removed and replaced with someone competent

[@DutchGuyMike]

@@Boamere Well seeing as the CEO now is CCO, he is essentially the HEAD of balancing & checks everything before release.

[@tyopmt]

Props to Alexsux and the balancing team to destroy a fucking great game using their fucking spreadsheet

[@MrShinydude]

The single most egregious and enraging bug has still not been fixed, or even (as far as I know) acknowledged by the devs in any capacity: turret call-ins unpredictably bouncing to worthless places instead of going where you throw them. (though I also find any mention of "turret hp" in the patch notes to be a sick joke, since they die the very instant an enemy looks at them funny)

[@droganovic6879]

Dude, that's so true! I now instinctively pick worse placements, and "test" by calling in supply drops It happens to support weapon/backpacks as well. Like, what's the point in getting a jetpack if I can't maneuver anywhere worth a damn because my call-ins just bounce further back than where I started? ☹️

[@MrVelociraptor75]

@@droganovic6879 yeah, but the red strats stick, so it's not an environment/material issue. They don't WANT you placing turrets in turret-y places... (it's a word, shuddap lol)

[@jooot_6850]

Oh? You want your turret somewhere it won't be one tapped by a charger? Too bad

[@Boamere]

It's probably because they don't want you reinforcing anywhere not deemed "correct" and reinforce and turrets are both blue stratagems.

[@MrShinydude]

@@Boamere Ah yes... because "realism" is only important when it penalizes us. I see...

[@goranbratos2097]

I do still play the game from time to time, but not nearly as much as I used to. Here are my personal reasons some of you may relate to: -90% of guns are completely pointless to use, forcing players to use the same 2 guns over and over -10 new game-breaking bugs with every single patch -constantly dying to stupid bugs (for example falling from half a foot with full HP and dying, or clipping inside of an enemy's corpse and getting launched, a dropship dropping SIX HULKS on my fucking head) -really no usable new eagle / orbital stratagems since launch -still no illuminates -constantly replaying the same planets because the enemies *just happen* to take them back every time we free them -no fun new mission type since the defense mission, and that one is locked behind the defense campaigns for some reason -crashes, performance issues etc. are still rampant, especially within a couple of days after every patch -several mechanics that are just unfun (planets with a constant lack of visibility, 3-stratagem slot missions, etc.) -the hitboxes for small bots are still absolutely horrendous

[@Shadeaflame]

The game isn't meant to be like Elden Ring it is meant to be a game about feeling cool and blowing stuff up

[@TyTimeIsAwesome]

The guns are the thing that bores me the most. I use at most 3 guns the entire game. Support weapon is at least has a bit more variety.

[@orangejuice9396]

the liberator penetrator has no reason to exist, especially on bots. takes longer and more ammo to kill enemies through their tier 3 armor than it does to just shoot them accurately, and you get a damage penalty for using it.

[@Wulfjager]

i dont want to see them add illuminates given the way they made the playerbase. we are rightfully cynical, but adding illuminates would be nothing but complaining about them being too strong. if they didnt pull all the bs they have for the past several months i think we would all be in a much better headspace for such a terrifying and difficult faction

[@midend]

lib pen actually does slightly more damage when headshotting but it's so risky and bots heads are so tanky (esp the devastators) that it requires multiple headshots while they are murking you. weapons that requires multiple shots to kill also pulls aggro and oh yeah there goes the flare

[@smittycity42]

I still haven't psychologically recovered from the Slugger nerf.

[@earthtaurus5515]

I'm still annoyed at that too, unlocked the weapon and next day... nerfed. When the eruptor came on the scene I was quite happy with it... but then it got nerfed and that was the 2nd strike for me. The third came with the exo suit fiasco with it's puny durable damage. After that I decided to call it quits. An exosuit doing less damage than a standalone weapon.... naaaah what were the planners smoking??

[@alexandersen1372]

@@earthtaurus5515 the eruptor on launch had so many problems that were not directly tied to the damage aspect. very slow reticle move speed, long bolt action reload, large explosion radius that hurts you if fired too close, etc. now? its basically just a big grenade pistorl for closing bug holes/factories because the damage is basically gone. shrapnel was used to kill a LOT of things and the explosion damage buff just didn't counter its removal. the AoE explosion damage fall off reduction makes it useless for clearing chaff unless they are crawling all over each other now. hell i think they SHOULD have left the you kill yourself if you screw up aspect to it.

[@FongBot]

I still can't believe they thought the way to make snipers feel better was to remove the stagger from a shotgun...

[@crackededge9351]

@@earthtaurus5515Same. The pre-nerfed Emancipator combined with the Eruptor nerfs was just too much for me to keep playing this game 😭 how you gonna completely destroy everyone’s favorite Democratic Detonation weapon? And make a weak mech as the cherry on top?

[@smittycity42]

@@FongBot Hard to snipe in a game with your visibility is usually capped at 50ft.

[@tomyorke3412]

Alexus needs to change departments. Or just be removed from having any say in the game. The dude is so far out of touch with what the players want.

[@jjprs3062]

All it took was an under qualified "balance dev" team to ruin a game built by amazing programmers, artists, and writers.

[@DutchGuyMike]

Apparently he is now doing cosmetics only.

[@BILLY-f1l]

Whoever was in charge of balance essentially singlehandedly killed the game. He/She should absolutely be fired. 100%. Some of the worst game balancing I've ever seen.

[@geronimo5537]

This^

[@Horotoma]

i dont like to have someone fired over anything, but they need to be moved elsewhere, or at least they need to be made to play the game more, document their game play for us to see and to show us via their gameplay why they want to make changes.

[@elijahaitaok8624]

No, straight up fired. Sweden has pretty amazing workers rights as well as social security network that quite a lot of it's citizens just straight up choose not to work because they don't need to​@@Horotoma

[@ursteamfriend]

Remove Alexus and put it on gaming news websites to prevent him from ever working in the industry again. When you're incompetent AND an egotistical asshole, you don't deserve to work in the industry you're in.

[@Error-mn4el]

@@Horotoma I mean i get your sentiment but at the same time if a worker is doing such a bad job that they are essentilly sabotaging the most successful product of a company they should be fired

[@jpsmithsculpts]

Players: This is fun!....Devs: Not anymore!

[@Wulfjager]

i remember switching to the slugger form the breaker pre breaker nerf, only for a few days later having the breaker get nerfed. i then immediately caught on to this dev team being the type of dev team to nerf things that everyone uses. quickly found a different gun because i didnt want to get comfortable with the slugger, sure enough it got nerfed too. same thing happened with the eruptor and quasar cannon. if its fun and everyone uses it, it wont be fun much longer

[@jpsmithsculpts]

@@Wulfjager I unlocked the railgun the day before it was nerfed!

[@vegetaaddict7754]

​@@jpsmithsculpts Same here.

[@Boamere]

@@jpsmithsculpts I had it for like a week and it was legit the only way to deal with the heavy spam at the time, devs are so stupid

[@DutchGuyMike]

Not devs, but Alexus (the guy that WAS in charge of balancing).

[@orangejuice9396]

it's so crazy to me how they saw the kill rates for burn damage being super low partially because no one was using it, buffed it to an insane degree and then "oh the kill rates were low because of a bug" like cmon

[@redcenturion88]

Because they take a doctor knows best position with us so if we mention a bug they just scoff and go on their merry way. I don't believe they're incompetent people, just lacking in humility.

[@orangejuice9396]

@@redcenturion88 arrowhead is like a doctor that doesn't do any tests before diagnosing lmao

[@s2wuolf508]

Thank god for statistics based balancing, really gave them solid info on wtf is going on there!

[@Boamere]

Yeah and even worse we were saying it was a DoT bug for ages but it seems like they didn't listen or couldn't

[@dolphin5177]

The game is make or break for a lot of people on the 13th i hope to god they just fix the fucking weapons. if they cant figure that out, just revert the damn game. i would not care at all if they removed the ricochet to give us the old eruptor back.

[@kotztotz3530]

Buffs need to stay, nerfs could be totally reverted

[@shinobiofashina2168]

The patch is today the 13th is the warbond

[@Someguy6571]

Nothing is getting reverted. They have already made that clear

[@mikevsworldofficial]

​@@shinobiofashina2168no the patch is being released alongside the warbond Thursday.

[@k.g.8029]

Unfortunately thats incorrect. Patch comes with the warbond this time​@@shinobiofashina2168

[@tianxiu]

they nerf the R-36, nerf the arc, nerf everything we can find...what do they expect? Expect us to "git gud"? No, devs, you git gud!

[@DutchGuyMike]

Yeah, blame Alexus for that all. It was mostly all his decisions.

[@padawanjon6441]

I stopped playing because it became clear that the game I bought and loved at launch is not the game the devs wanted to make

[@alexg4927]

Nah, I still love the game. It's still fantastic, but their approach to nerfing things leaves much space for improvement Still playing every day or almost every day 1-2 games. Although it's a little bit less fun than before

[@gamerbeast3616]

Thats stupid

[@DioZaWorldo]

it’s literally the same game just with balancing issues lmfao, not one core gameplay element has changed

[@DutchGuyMike]

Thank the Alexus guy for that, but the CEO (now CCO) is in charge of balancing now, chiefly.

[@Rexhunterj]

@@alexg4927 You're a frog in a saucepan of water with the heat turning up gradually, you won't know you've boiled to death because it happened so gradually.

[@nerdtalker2]

Yep this is the problem with every live action game these days as well, they constantly were messing with the gameplay loop by virtue of endless gun rebalancing that ultimately burned everyone out. Each patch made the game less fun to play and a chore to relearn what was rebalanced (mostly nerfed), and eventually what that turned into was making every gun that was fun, less fun, in a PVE game where there was no need for a competitive rebalancing on such a tight schedule anyways.

[@DisIngRaM]

Its actually Alexus fault, It's his ego talking when balancing is being cooked.

[@DutchGuyMike]

@@DisIngRaM He even named his ship "Bringer of Balance" lmfao

[@nyghtfal]

I rarely play these days because I don’t really have a reason to log in either. I played it, I have a personal preference on where I see it’s at and I know what I’ll get out of it. As a consumer, I think it’s also becoming easier to see things more objectively because the consumer base has been abused so much by all these AAA companies. I think D4, and WoW to me was really the first, “you guys have a couple of chances chance before I just don’t care anymore” or actively keeping distance until things change

[@TyTimeIsAwesome]

Well said. This next patch is going to decide a lot going foward for the future of the game.

[@DutchGuyMike]

Well, the main developers wanted nothing but good things, it's the prior balancing guy Alexus that ruined it all.

[@shift_del3te249]

Alexus single handedly ruined the honeymoon phase of this game. My favorite thing he did was to call a warbond "S TIER nothing wrong, good warbond" and we all got excited. And then all the guns were shit. That was such a funny joke man! Definitely made me want to play more :)

[@guardiantko3220]

That was definitely something that the higher ups should've looked into for firing him. Bastard is actively trying to kill the game to own the chuds

[@Boamere]

least masochistic russian dev

[@Zambicus]

Maybe one day there'll be a patch where the chargers' glowing, unarmored backside is actually a weakspot.

[@vancedman446]

Wait, that's not a weakspot?

[@shemsuhor8763]

@@vancedman446 only explosive and medium pen weapons can damage it.

[@Zambicus]

@@vancedman446 You can damage it but it's just a bodyshot, and can take quite the pounding. Meanwhile if you break armor off its legs and shoot that, you're dealing weakpoint damage (i.e. way more). It makes very little sense to me.

[@Crotchcuzzler]

​@vancedman446 its legs and head are its weak spots

[@ryanvacation7319]

My old gaming buddies gave up and moved on once their favorite weapons were nerfed badly: for them first it was the Breaker, then the Arc Thrower, but the last straw was the Quasar and the Eruptor. Also I can’t get new friends to play with me because it’s Steam sales are still blocked in my country.

[@DutchGuyMike]

Well the player counts from the non-American/European continents counted only for a tiny percentage of the playerbase.

[@Zaney_]

The patch when they nerfed the Exsosuit rockets after they completely ruined how the aiming mechanism worked is when i realized these devs are clowns. They're wasting time and energy micromanaging things that don't matter instead of fixing the growing list of bugs and other weapons which were just terrible to use.

[@TheOtherCoinflipper]

The worst part of that nerf is that the bug is completely on brand for the game anyway. Guard Dogs constantly team kill, lightning weapons reach out and touch allies way out of the line of fire almost intentionally. There's so much self-damage / destruction that the Patriot rockets being dangerous to ourselves is perfectly in line with everything else. Just let us aim again, man. And now the autocannons have the narrow field of fire.

[@YumYumGoodGood]

@@TheOtherCoinflipperomg this is so accurate it’s disturbing. Bring back the OG patriot!!!

[@BackwardsPancake]

@@TheOtherCoinflipper This is also why I feel that having overpowered weapons isn't a big deal - It's also on-brand for all the ludicrous destruction going on in this game. They're only a problem if they literally completely trivialize the game, and nothing we've had has hit that point yet. Even the OG Railgun wasn't anywhere near _that_ level, since it still required a decent amount of aiming and timing skill to do what it did (Even with the PS5 bug - Because that only mattered against titans specifically, and it had notable fire rate and ammo economy issues that held it back when it came to dealing with other bug units, like spewers and hunters).

[@jfh667]

Maybe its time to have a chat with the guy responsible of "balancing" the game.

[@DutchGuyMike]

Alexus. And yes that is why the CEO now became the CCO - head of balancing essentially.

[@worldwide_wes]

I quit playing I got tired of having to keep track of all the nerfs and buffs constantly.

[@motodrang4287]

Same brother

[@dyliokhan3946]

same

[@superiornicholas412]

I mean they are slowing down the patches.

[@StormTrooperEX]

same

[@circleofsorrow4583]

Same

[@DUDEDUDE33]

Interesting timing dropping this 3 days before the highly anticipated patch. Let's see if they finally get it together.

[@bulletking71]

Can't wait to see that they fixed some bugs and fixed the patrol spawns and maybe did some small map type fixes, and that will be it. Or they would have changed some armor values or health for the enemyes, and that is what the over 100 other things that are changing each type of enemy's. No change to weapon stats or making them better.

[@alexandersen1372]

the balance patch is not this month. they mentioned that when they showed the new warbond.

[@Lupercalum]

@@alexandersen1372 their last tweet literally says it's dropping together with the warbond on thursday

[@UmbraWeiss]

They will make things worse... There will be massive crashes, changes that make no sense,or changes that make the game even worse than it is.

[@arizonaanalog389]

​@UmbraWeiss I told my friend about a month ago they'd drop the next patch on the date of the Warbond because of their hubris. It's gonna be so buggy and people will be raging nonstop. Get your popcorn ready

[@impurfekt]

Somebody please strap the devs in a chair and make them watch this on repeat. Preferably Clockwork Orange style. And record it.

[@LaserTractor]

Clockwork Orange style😂😂

[@kaybuck8192]

"what if we pursued realism BUT, and hear me out here, automatons never run out of ammo"

[@kaybuck8192]

@@Swimmingfisher3 firstly I'm not sure what you're talking about (please enlighten me), but secondly I'm pretty confident rocket pods, flamethrowers, and miniguns are not shooting lasers

[@apersonthatis7007]

Alexus caused this out of malice

[@DutchGuyMike]

"And in this game he poured his cruelty, his malice, and his will to dominate all players" Lord of the Rings Sauron aka Alexus.

[@gamephreak5]

"Don't ascribe to malice that which can be explained by stupidity." - _I forget who said this_

[@PPSFerfax]

Whole reason my friends stop, Sony. That was 20+ people from my group.

[@thecommenter9678]

Same here. 5 people though.

[@dledman]

This is the primary reason, for me to stop playing too - the bad press from this decision and then the bait and switch after everything is disgusting. Can't even use the Japanese VO pack thanks to Sony. Stuck with my gross English dub Sven tho I'm an Asian weeb who purchased the game outside of Japan

[@thecommenter9678]

@@dledman I think it's hopeless though, the community has moved on. Old players are gone, and all the new players don't care.

[@DutchGuyMike]

@@thecommenter9678 It's not - I've seen so many people and so many posts about people coming back if the game was fun again. Plus the countries in which the game is still banned BARELY counted for even a few percentages of what the American/European continent players counted for.

[@thecommenter9678]

@@DutchGuyMike it does not matter if they were a meaningful percentage of players. What Sony did was disgusting. I'm not saying the game is dying, I'm saying trying to get Sony to relist the countries is hopeless, but you made it clear what you care about, your own amusement, not the victims of Sony's bullshit. You are EXACTLY what I'm saying, you went back, and all the new players don't care one way or the other about the delisted countries. The battle against Sony has proven to be a pure loss, we didn't win anything. I hope people remember this and next time i hope they keep the boot on the gaming companies neck till we see ALL our demands met.

[@Damocles1337]

Helldivers patch notes in 2025: -Factory striders no longer possess medium armor, it's all heavy armor now -Bile Titans no longer die once the head is removed -Primary weapons no longer deal team damage, nor enemy damage -Support weapons with backpacks cannot be self reloaded -There is a 90% chance your grenade might not go off once thrown -Chargers no longer bleed out from a broken posterior -Stims now only heal 10% health per use -The hellpods may not spawn you in after death, oh wait, we already have that in 2024

[@onhillsgaming]

Don't you dare say you can't reload on your own. That feels like a very real thing that they would do all for the sake of promoting team play and playing it off by making it 2x and calling it a buff.

[@boiaboa]

* All currency cap reduced in 35%

[@robpaul4666]

- All weapons have a 50% possibility of “jamming” when firing the first shot (the sound of a jam aggros enemies to your exact coordinates)

[@burn1none]

they need to make it so guns get jammed and you also trip just randomly like in Smash Bros Brawl

[@gamephreak5]

The 3rd one should say "Primary weapons no longer deal team damage. As an unintended result, they also don't deal enemy damage. We're looking into it." They're seriously that stupid and inept that they would stop team killing by negating all bullet damage. pRoBlEm SoLvEd!

[@lorcan2316]

Whoever made all these decisions should be charged with treason

[@bl00dh4nd4]

I approve this message

[@DutchGuyMike]

The guy is called Alexus, and yes apparently he is now only doing cosmetics.

[@YoloBaconBox]

Claiming realism in a game, at the cost of consistency and enjoyability is a 100% a scapegoat used to mask bad decisions in current game design. Ah yes, the great realism of knee-high wilburs headshoting me. Or the realism of clearing the map of enemy bases and outposts only to have WAYYY more enemies *pop* into existence. Or the great realism of not being able to stim while being torn to shreds by hunters because "It hurt so bad, if only I could save myself by using this stim. But alas! It just hurt to much.". Or enemies having infinite bullets/rockets without needing to reload (*GASP* if enemies had to reload, that would add immersion and counterplay! 🤯) IMO, if the realism being added takes away from the enjoyability then it should be removed or be taken back to the drawing board.

[@DutchGuyMike]

Yes that is why the CEO became the CCO. So he had control over balance again, not that idiotic Alexus guy.

[@LaserTractor]

This should give you a perspective of things: Not so long ago former CEO (Pilestedt) answered to some dude about Tenderizer mag size increase. He said "we can't increase mag size because MAG 3D MODEL MUST BE CHANGED TOO". And they don't have new one yet. These are the things that bother them. Not your "important" stuff.

[@OhDough]

that's why I said piles focuses a little too much on realism. it's a double edged sword at this point. weapon design visually is usually awesome but functionality being focused on realism is wack

[@LaserTractor]

@@OhDough I see you are as much heated about state of the game as me (and others). Answering a lot today😂💪

[@DutchGuyMike]

@@OhDough Piles doesn't focus too much on realism - he learnt his lesson now (we will see with the patch). It's just that the devs are INSANELY busy, they are working on SO MANY THINGS, PLUS they have a contract with Sony forcing them to release a Warbond practically every month. Combine that with the skins stuff/coloring, new maps, new missions, new strategems - do you know how much dev time it takes to do all this? So making a mag bigger (whilst they stated they are going to buff Assault Rifles, and especially the Tenderizer) is the least of their worries.

[@scottcheg9]

Almost every dev team that says they want realism in gun play always butchers shotguns, they are not close quarters only!!

[@matteparent2468]

1 - basic PvE game 2 - no significant new content (new characters, abilities, enemy types, structures, ground effects, etc) 3 - 50 % of the available content (weapons, stratagems, enemy balance during mission) feels bad

[@The_Firehawk]

I think you're only correct with two and three

[@kent0512]

I think those reasons make more sense to me. The decrease of the “concurrent player” mostly is due to ppl got bored and they play less frequently.

[@evanchristianson8116]

Yea this game is fun. But only getting new weapons and armor, no new enemies, lets the game become stale after a while. The recent new strategums also being bad doesn't help.

[@DylanBFishkeeper]

​@@evanchristianson8116 Even only getting new weapons and armor would be rewarding enough for many to stay longer...if they felt good to use. The problem right now is that the vast majority of the weapons, armor, and gear just feel unfun to use. It completely kills the motivation to try and play and unlock more stuff when 9 times out of 10, you won't like the new weapons and/or they hit like a wet noodle and aren't viable outside lower difficulties.

[@Cobaltryno]

4 - none of it works correctly anyways

[@spyker_aileron]

Machine guns that immobilze you to reload should have a team reload function at minimum that allows you to shoot all the the ammo.

[@burn1none]

that would actually be really cool imo

[@Tabby3456]

I wish they made this a optional side challenge that gives you bigger rewards for choosing to deal with effects like "Electronic countermeasure"

[@forestchurchill7348]

buffing the barrages were about effective as trying to kill a ghoul with radiation damage.

[@danielespitia1776]

Effective as trying to kill a ghoul with a gamma gun that does 50% more damage to ghouls?

[@bar_jumper1312]

9:22 yeah this shows also that "making the game more immersiv" is just an argument to get out of jail for the devs

[@kokorochacarero8003]

They immersed it in a pond of excrement

[@devinci8334]

The stims were NOT fixed. The amount of times i visibly see my character jam himself in the neck and get the tire valve audio queue, only to die a split second later is insane.

[@DutchGuyMike]

Well don't forget you get interrupted too, I usually spam dive and stim which works.

[@jjcarver80]

Game feels like repetitive torture. I get that they are forcing you to use your team but when your team is bad, there is no way to carry. You can to a certain extent but they're purposely making it harder to do. There comes a time when yeah, hard difficulty is fun, but there's a line when it becomes stupid.

[@TyTimeIsAwesome]

I just wish at this point the game never let you play if you didn't have a full squad, because anything less than that and you get penalized. I tried playing with randoms a few times, and it's just not fun.

[@Spectacular_Insanity]

Dark Souls/Elden Ring/Sekiro know the difference between difficulty and punishment and how to balance those two concepts. Arrowhead devs have zero clue.

[@Wulfjager]

what i learned is that you need to steer clear of difficulty 7, difficulty 9 is far easier than 7 because that mode is full of low skilled players that are desperately searching for super rares. not saying its their fault, they want to progress too and playing on 7 is the only way to do it, but 9 has a way higher percentage of players that know what theyre doing

[@sadasd-n2f]

​@@Wulfjager I fucking wish this was true, but it isn't. I get constantly morons on level 9 to the point that both me and my friend stopped playing until the update so we can never play with randoms again

[@BackwardsPancake]

Same, and in fact, I think I can pinpoint the exact changes that messed up the "clutch ability". It was whatever they did to Hunters, and that change where they fixed the Devastator spawning so that you could get loads of heavy and rocket devs. Now, you can play your heart out, but these enemies will just delete you based on RNG (If hunters jump at you with just the right sync they will stunlock headshot you to death with no possibility to react, heavy devastators can instantly erase you if they happen to roll consecutive headshots and will also become unhittable in certain terrain arrangements, and rocket devastators will stunlock you and blast you out of cover with rocket spam).

[@marzialalfonzocanada888]

breaker literally had no reason getting nerfed like that....just cuz majority haven't unlocked other weapons yet doesnt mean that the breaker was OP 17:16 this was a stupid stealth nerf it made trying to pinpoint stalker lairs harder especially with randoms

[@iprfenix]

One of the devs explicitly said the breaker wasn't outperforming other guns. Said that players using other guns had similar completion rates. So if it's not outperforming... why nerf it? Because fun police, that's why.

[@marzialalfonzocanada888]

@iprfenix its the biggest piece of dog sht reasoning that I have ever read.....altho makes sense at that time cuz the breaker was competing with the ARs and SMGs that are just very meh compared to it

[@dledman]

Nerfed to make paid warbond weapons more attractive to purchase

[@fire_drake12.arc.24]

its bizarre that in order for Alexus to justify some terrible changes he made "Across the map" mean anything around 50m in this game.

[@Dontcaredidntask420]

overbalancing has hurt the game, i think they shouldve kept the railgun one shot and buffed the spear quesar and the recoiless to match it so ppl can have variety. Its so dumb that the spear can take 3 shots to kill and the same for the recoiless and then they nerf the railgun too. They have slowed it down too much, i mean shit even in the trailor its a dude one shotting a bile titan like come on!!!!! lol

[@StormTrooperEX]

calling it balancing is too generous they performed dps communism yes all the weapons are now equal, equally shit

[@Malphorus]

Sounds like the propaganda got you son, why you think they cut to him and just threw blood on him? lol

[@jereulmanen7093]

Naah I think railgun should 4 shot bile titan and recoiless etc 2 shot to head, because you can reload railgun on run, but you cant reload antitank guns on run

[@guardiantko3220]

​@Malphorus fuck off with"it's propaganda lol cow lmao" it's how they got perceived, and originally offered to the players, and now it's just worse with each update.

[@adrianoss.bougas3720]

Buff them how? Quasar is still top pick even after a nerf and you want to buff it above it pre nerf even ?

[@bulletwong]

Dev: Make the game so boring and hard to play, players will love it. Also Dev: Why players are leaving?

[@DutchGuyMike]

Replace Dev with Alexus, as he was the one doing all balancing prior to the CEO becoming the CCO.

[@TinnWard]

The most confused I've been on reddit was someone telling me it's a skill issue that I wasn't a fan of the Eruptor's shrapnel being removed

[@samturner6061]

It is really an annoying feeling to have to re-learn something or simply forget something you knew or enjoyed, because of a dramatic change to it after release of a game. To KEEP doing it to the players of the game week after week is the real reason why people stopped playing.

[@DutchGuyMike]

That is why Joel stepped down of the CEO position to became the CEO - the head of balancing now essentially.

[@nimblehuman]

Due to all this, they will refer to killing a game by needless nerfing of weapons as the Kravchenko Effect.

[@Manifestojl1]

to conclude: Dev's took the fun out of the game.

[@DutchGuyMike]

*Alexus took the fun out of the game and he wasn't checked before he released/nerfed anything.

[@re_mann26]

8:22 did that mfker really just say “PuT IT oN unsafE mODe” Beside that, none of us could lay this down as well as you did Thank you for bringing awareness to this honestly.

[@OhDough]

yeah, I made 4+ vids on the ps5 bug and so many comments were "just put it on unsafe" "hit the weakspot". even still people think there's a way to 1-2 shot with railgun.

[@fowlWarDog]

I could probably belt out a 24 hour meandering rant on this topic but I'll be succinct as possible. Discussing "realism" in a blantantly scifi ip is cringe beyond belief, as much as my brain appreciates mag systems and acknowledging how a firearm works these things often hinder more important discussions, so I'll just quickly kill the "realism" argument in HD2 with a few things I'd noticed. > There is virtually no correlation between apparent size of a cartridge and the expected damage or armor pen, the largest "offender" of this is the autocannon, as the surprisingly small rounds you load it with appear *smaller* than .50 bmg. > The Liberator penetrator is as bad as it is nonsensical, as the weapon has grown considerably in size(and weight presumably) yet it suffers a worse recoil stat. I could go on, nobody wants that, just like nobody asked us to "save" the hmg from "unrealistic" access to ammo. etc etc Did I mention we keep virtually everything in our magic prison pockets? no? okay okay I'm leaving.

[@CBRN-115]

Helldivers 2 was supposed to be a gung-ho fantasy game where people just have fun blowing things up Sure, the enemies are many but we get to play with big guns too. But the no-fun Swedes took away the fun toys for "balancing"

[@DutchGuyMike]

Not no fun Swedes, a guy named Alexus (and he isn't Swedish from blood).

[@DanteX3M]

At this point: I just wish AH to hire OhDough for consulting balance team.

[@thelordofcow5639]

the "being able to ping POIs" still exists, it only works sometimes though. I can just whip my mouse across the map and find POIs. the HMG first person sight wasn't changed at all, it still fires nowhere near the dot. I'm really hoping they are gonna get things right this next patch. if not, I think we may see a mass exodus of players

[@TyTimeIsAwesome]

I thought I was going crazy! Sometimes it works for me. Sometimes it doesn't at all. And this is when I'm not wearing the Scout Armor either.

[@ezkiller93]

@@TyTimeIsAwesome The first map you play after you launch the game you won't be able to do it. After that first map, you will be able to do it every other time. At least in my experience. Though I always play with a premade group of friends; so it might not be the very first game upon launch, but the first game every time you join a different host that it doesn't work.

[@DutchGuyMike]

@@ezkiller93 That is not the case for me, I've had it not work plenty of times AFTER it working the first match.

[@DanielCollins85]

TLDR: Alexus, The Destroyer of Fun, is to blame.

[@DutchGuyMike]

It's hilarious he named his ship "Bringer of Balance".

[@Myzzzy]

Okay, I need to clarify on the Exosuit-45 rocket bug with it instantly killing your mech with a collision. No, they don't need to bring that bug back even if it gives better aiming. I don't think people really remember how bad it was. You could be standing completely still and still blow up (not moving or turning at all). It made tracking targets going to your right impossible because of the risk of blowing up. I'm tired of hearing people act like you could skill around it or just not have it happen if you "aimed carefully." It's just not how it worked. especially with how desync'd some munitions can be in MP. The fix they NEED to implement is reverting the aiming change but making it so the damn rocket can't ever collide with the exosuit.

[@berserkerpride]

I wouldn't bring back self-deleting the mech. I would simply have the rockets spawn just a little in front of the launcher so they don't strike the mech. Then you could revert back to the aiming system that had proper weapon convergence and the ability to aim down.

[@Myzzzy]

@@berserkerpride That's what I'm saying just without adjusting the rockets spawn, just make them have no collision with the exosuit that produced them. There shouldn't be a collision between the rocket and the exosuit. It's literally one of the easiest fixes they could make in the code from what I have gathered by talking to game devs from different genres. It's that stupid-simple. We could have had the best of both worlds: good aim and no self-delete. The devs just didn't want the exosuit to be fun.

[@earthtaurus5515]

@@Myzzzy Buzzkills, the balancing team was probably run by sadists that like inflicting punishment on the player base lol. I said was as I imagine Pilestedt will have made some staffing changes but kept it under wraps to avoid them get blamed by the community.

[@Myzzzy]

​@@earthtaurus5515 I hope some changes were made about how they do things going forward and how to actually design weapons and stratagems to be fun. This update is the last straw for some people. I hope it goes well and we can all dive again while having fun doing it.

[@earthtaurus5515]

@@Myzzzy Same here. There is literally no incentive to play anymore as playing to unlock warbonds and then weapons... only for the weapons to get nerfed later... what's the frigging point? In regards to the Strats, they do need tweaking.

[@stormhawk_v8838]

4:20 People wanted to use EAT and Recoilless Rifle but they didn't work as they do now. They had a hidden mechanic where a large part of the damage was deflected when the warhead hit a target at a steep angle. It was removed around that time but not documented in the patchnotes. The devs later admitted they changed how the two launchers work on their Discord. This is an immensely important part of the puzzle because there literally was no alternative to the Railgun in the release version of Helldivers 2. All other guns were incapable of dealing with armor to the extent the higher difficulties demanded.

[@elijahaitaok8624]

I had a blast when I saw my RR bounce off an enemy, it was cool, it was neat, it meant I had to do things correctly. Ricochet was a thing and I had to work with and around it. Now I can't be creative with it

[@stormhawk_v8838]

@@elijahaitaok8624 No, that is a different mechanic. In the release version launchers could hit with the rocket exploding while only causing a fraction of their normal damage value. You wouldn't know that this just happened because you couldn't know it was a thing before the devs said so. Instead the enemy just wouldn't die. Since the armored carapaces of the Terminids have edges everywhere it was common for the damage to get deflected and people usually didn't bring launchers more than once because they quickly learned how useless they were.

[@C6KSystem]

I love helldivers 2 but I've went hack to 1. It has Cohesive armour, competent players, boss fights, more weapons, more stratagems, and somewhat better balancing.

[@Sombriage]

The game was hyped on release which results in large player loss regarding retention. Adding in the Sony f up, bad balance, blatantly stupid bugs / glitches, and poor design choices that become increasingly evident yea... Arrowhead was lucky.

[@lutherheggs451]

Im sorry but Sony didn't "f up" anything. Before the game launched they literally stated out loud and in documentation that the PC version was going to require linking to a FREE PSN account but it would be delayed until May 30th 2024. It was literally in the day 1 TOS that you had to scroll through first starting the game, except it was greyed out because of the May 30th date. There is ZERO difference between requiring a FREE PSN account to play a Sony MP game on Sony servers and the other 100 publishers that also require some sort of account link. MS requires it for Minecraft, Sea of Thieves, Grounded etc. EA requires it, ubisoft requires it, WB requires it. Helldivers 2 is also the exact same game as Helldivers but with a different camera, they didn't "luck" into anything. They made Helldivers over 8 years ago and supported it with 8 years of content

[@Sombriage]

@@lutherheggs451 It is indeed an F Up to offer your product to more countries that you actually support.

[@Paradox1012]

​​​@@lutherheggs451 I mean, they changed thoer website text to say "Psn is optional on PC to" psn is mandatory on some games on PC" in a day. You can't do that without updating your TOS. That is lawsuit maetrial . You can't just enforce this rule and be so woefully unprepared by making the game avialbel OUTSIDE OF WHERE YOU OFFER YOUR SERVICE. I know it was a server thing, but God damn, hindsight ain't 20/20.

[@njung1990able]

@@lutherheggs451 uh oh sony fanboi trying to engage in misinformation

[@Reader99220]

@@lutherheggs451 They did in fact "luck" into something, they lucked into having their game explode in media attention at a time when people were getting tired of the bullshit AAA studios were pulling. As for calling helldivers 2 the exact same game with just a camera difference, I can't say personally because I never played the original but almost everything I've heard people say is it is "balanced" differently, which does really change the game.

[@H00Kex2]

Arrowhead makes balance changes and bug fixes like genies grant wishes

[@DutchGuyMike]

*Alexus makes balance changes like that (that is why the CEO now CCO became head of balancing, not Alexus).

[@Other-AllOfTheAbove]

It also doesn't help that some of the community are standardless fans that are willing to blindly forgive and idolize the developers.

[@bartoluszek7111]

That’s their goal. Original helldivers had around 5k concurrent players. They are aiming at the same thing here. People are mistaken in one thing - they think that Arrowhead wants as many people playing as possible. They simply don’t. They want a micro fan base of incredibly dedicated players that will excuse anything.

[@hanswurst-h3e]

@@bartoluszek7111 if thats the intended course then the reputation loss would be astonishing. just imagine "The studio that sold 12 million copies which dropped to a sub 5k playerbase (due to incompetence and malice)"

[@bartoluszek7111]

@@hanswurst-h3e they’re Swedish, what do you expect

[@HansKlopek]

Weak weapons. Im so sick of weapons just making noise and little else.

[@DutchGuyMike]

Yeah me too.. Alexus ruined the game (he's the guy that WAS in charge of balancing & mucked it all up, that is why the CEO went to CCO - head of balancing essentially, so he can fix it all, let's hope it does).

[@booshandorkakow64]

Mid-tier dev team got lucky and then couldn't handle success.

[@LaserTractor]

Best summary tbh. They got hit by a lucky star and they HATED IT. How dare players enjoy fun?! Game for everyone is a game for no one! No way our company motto is bs.

[@DutchGuyMike]

They could easily handle success, if you knew it would be popular. And it's Alexus's fault chiefly for ruining the balance.

[@booshandorkakow64]

They don't have the talent regardless. From top to bottom they've been inept at every turn.

[@ol_fortune9474]

Funny how some people seeing this game like a second coming of Christ for gaming industry, the house of cards fell apart way earlier than I expected.

[@k2error86]

"Helldivers 2 should focus more on fun" Me : +1

[@TheIndulgers]

Crazy how people are tired of playing the same 5 mission types - which are all basically the same anyway.

[@UmbraWeiss]

If not for the nerfs... It still would be a fun after work shooter... Now is just a frustrating mess.

[@DutchGuyMike]

They are coming with new maps & mission types, it just takes a lot of developer time to create these things.

[@DylanBFishkeeper]

L4D2, CoD Zombies, and Killing Floor are PvE games still played and loved to this day, and they're the basically same missions (for the most part) over and over again. If players enjoy their engagement mechanism to your core gameplay loop, they won't mind doing the same thing repeatedly. AH had this nailed at launch, with the guns and stratagems being fun to use full stop. Missions and planets weren't the fun part, they were just the backdrop, the excuse, to set up the fun parts of the gun play. People will entertain themselves so long as they enjoy the gameplay (just look at the emergent storytelling of Malevalon Creek).

[@Shayne01]

Devs should actually play the games they make, instead of just nerfing whatever is at the top of the usage charts. Sometimes that usage spike might mean a thing is overpowered, but sometimes that means literally nothing else is good. I mean I dont even use the meta weapons, so I definitely know how bad the other ones are.

[@LaserTractor]

Yeah, they said "we hate meta" and created a toxic meta themselves where only select few weapons are any good. Megabrain moment

[@Zouna92]

I got 300+ hours in the game, here is my brief experience: LAUNCH DAY: DEMOCRACY SHOOT AND EXPLODE EVERYTHING!! WE ARE THE STRONGEST Patch 1: We die a lot more, but we are still the strongest, shoot and explode everything!! ... Current Patch: I have this BB gun and nothing feels like fun anymore. Thanks for the 300+ hours, but I think I'll call it quits here. Good luck to anyone out there still enjoying the game. Just to clarify: A mission on D9 will always look like this > Run from POI to POI > *Rush clear it* > *Avoid* as many fight as possible > do the main objectives > Extract. Clearing a map takes around 30-40 minutes, depending on the fight outbreaks, and if you have everything unlocked, you won't even have a goal to work towards. This game has stagnated way too hard, and they should have added more goals for players to reach. Right now, the only thing I'm missing is 20 levels to reach level 150. I didn't buy the last Polaris warbond, and I won't buy the next trash "predator" themed warbond. I let AH refund me for the Demolition warbond because of the way they butchered it. I was banking all my last hope on the next patch to see if this game would have a turning point, but with that new warbond, even that little bit of hope took a massive dent.

[@DutchGuyMike]

That new Warbond seems EXTREMELY cool to me, it even has skins - the things I want most. And the reason they included an Assault Rifle? They said they would buff Assault Rifles and especially the Tenderizer, otherwise there's no way they would include an AR in the Warbond. But I do find that skins should not be in Warbonds but in a Requisition/Sample store or something.

[@g80gzt]

The "recoilless rifle animation cancel" is basically hit almost any button to reload faster if you time it right. Like an active reload mechanic, it has you pay attention instead of sneaking a sip of a drink or whatever, it's engaging to do. More active reload mechanics makes reloading more fun and has an expression of skill!

[@LaserTractor]

Guess they won't add that. Most probably they'll just remove the option to cancel animation Because reALIsM

[@DutchGuyMike]

@@LaserTractor Not now whilst Joel is in charge of balancing and NOT Alexus anymore.

[@benrockwell1503]

Aliens Fireteam Elite did a good job of making interesting guns in a coop game. Most had a unique feel, were effective if used correctly and were fun.

[@DutchGuyMike]

Meh. Crap game with the same mission over and over and over, Helldivers 2 compared to that is WAY more rich in content.

[@figbloppa7183]

As the CEO himself said perfectly "every time someone finds fun, the fun gets removed"

[@carloschaparro07]

Since that patch where they screwd the weapons, my friends stopped playing and didn't come back. None of my friends play with me anymore. I log in alone, help the newbies, and the higher-level players kick me for reasons I don't understand. I'm also about to stop playing.

[@TheTripleAce3]

Same boat here.

[@nimblehuman]

The constantly getting kicked was the last straw for me. Too many people who play this game are uncommunicative retards.

[@quanlinglingdingle6122]

I made like 20 friends in this game, reduced to only 5 before PSN fiesta (and after nerfs) and now? 0 Nobody wants to be tortured in this sh*t back to mining with other dwarves

[@burn1none]

the kicking culture this game has garnered makes me sick

[@DutchGuyMike]

I have played like 150 hours, and usually with randoms. I was kicked literally only 3 times (one time I landed on someone on purpose, lol).

[@the_old_fox]

I remember the time right after the devastator spawns update, when it got actually hard to find 10 regular ones to kill for a personal daily A single alert could literally drop dozens of rocket devs in the most covert position to spam you all day, but we struggled to meet a daily kill counter for regular ones during a single mission.

[@rizashahril]

Heh, the devs got what they want and the circle jerk making fun of people complaining about it are finally driving the players away. They really deserves this.

[@DutchGuyMike]

Not they, Alexus. He was the guy in charge of all bad balance acts that happened, that is why the CEO became the CCO - the head of balancing essentially.

[@turbotegs2102]

I stopped playing once i realised that every new warbond wasn't even worth unlocking

[@DutchGuyMike]

Well on the flip side, at least you can earn Super Credits, it would be FAR WORSE if you had to pay for every single one.

[@MartyMacFry]

Swedish arrogance kills yet another game.

[@DutchGuyMike]

Not Swedish arrogance. Alexus, and he is not of Swedish blood, that is why the CEO became the CCO - the head of balancing, and Alexus is now doing only cosmetics.

[@shemsuhor8763]

1: the game has no content 2: nothing in the game is fun to use if it doesn't work; and 3: most of the things in the game don't work

[@DutchGuyMike]

The game has plenty of content, lol what? And the things that aren't fun anymore you can thank Alexus for - that is why the CEO stepped down to become the CCO, the head of balancing esssentially.

[@DKGCastle]

Considering the fact I come to OhDoug's channel for information and numbers...having the one and only lay it all out like this is....depressing 💀. I really think next patch will either be the elixr of life or nail in the coffin...

[@bulletkingaming2808]

If AH wants to buff HMG, they should add a new backpack for Machineguns. Like a chain ammo pack for the 3 types of machineguns, no need for reloading, just have a backpack for machineguns, with varying total ammo based on the type of Machine Gun is used, and you can only call-in the machingun backpack if you are using a specific machine gun(Just so your McDonald's order from the Super Destroyer wouldn't be screwed in the first place, especially calling for a specific ammo type for Stalwart, MG-43, or HMG). And for ammo count, just add an additional mag for the total ammo for the machine gun specified. Or, they could add a new feature for the ammo pack which let's you chain your machine gun to remove the ability to reload, but with overheating feature, and removes grenade, stim, and ammo resupply. You know, another unique feature, which a lot of players would love. New Features!

[@ShadowBroker000]

Even if they introduce illuminate next patch it will take me few weeks to turn the game on

[@quanlinglingdingle6122]

Yeah like bro the automatons are broken rn with stupid spawn rate and patrols, now imagine the f*cking ILLUMINATE with the same problem as automatons Nope gtfo arrowhead

[@ShadowBroker000]

@@quanlinglingdingle6122 i dont find enemies hard,i like hard games and real challenges tho this game forces you to use same weapons over and over again if you want to do badass stuff and not even mentioning half of the weapons that dont even work

[@DutchGuyMike]

@@quanlinglingdingle6122 Well my simple friend, that is why they are reverting the spawn rates etc with the next patch. As it was BROKEN - which I immediately noticed and made posts about but got laughed at. Even now the developers acknowledged it it wasn't working as intended and was wildly inconsistent, sometimes a 9 felt like a 6 and vice versa.

[@johnnycamacho9975]

I played a lot when it first came out. But now? I don’t. Because of all the nerfs I end up using the same stratagems even more because there’s no options that haven’t been gutted.

[@DutchGuyMike]

Yeah, blame Alexus for it. He no longer is in charge though, the CEO now is (who is now the CCO, head of balancing essentially).

[@PettyPolite]

The realest Helldivers 2 creator.

[@Jsvkkie]

its like the devs responsible for the balance lowkey want the game to fail and pray for its downfall.

[@DemoDivsion]

They're trying to cull the playerbase down to the original Helldivers numbers

[@bartoluszek7111]

@@DemoDivsionthat is essentially true. They don’t care that they created a golden goose. They wanted to make a very, very specific game that just happened to appeal to a lot of people at launch. Since then they have been implementing their vision more and more, slowly creeping towards their goal - a small but hermetic fan base acute to the original game. They prefer to have 5000 players sucking them off rather than 500.000 having fun

[@DutchGuyMike]

It's not devs - it is Alexus - he was the guy responsible for balancing before the CEO became the CCO.

[@zophix-5741]

Bots still have infinite ammo and no reload on their rockets. I'm fine with the infinite ammo but the rate of fire on the rocket barrages is absurd. It should be one barrage every 30 seconds. Why can't heavy armor give us slow and knockback immunity, and medium armor reduce the effect by 50%? Also I can't fucking see 90% of the time. IMO the worst part about each enemy type. Bots: Constantly getting knocked around Bugs: Constant slows

[@burn1none]

bro getting slowed and knocked around CONSTANTLY has got to be the worst feeling when you're already getting overwhelmed

[@brandibilliot6912]

i have been saying this shit in reddit and my karma took a BLOODBATH

[@ErrorGameManiac]

reddit is not a place for facts. Its a cult. You either say what they want to hear or you get shit on.

[@CozySER]

Reddit has been full of low IQ sociopaths for years.

[@VF-Logos]

Dude, did you forgotten to mention post 1st major patch, devs added wallhacks + increased 5m detection range for all enemies? That update sucked so much and had huge repercussion since then.

[@I-was-once-a-krabby-patty]

Playing an eradicate mission and having 10 titans trample you as everything you throw at it is like a wet napkin INCLUDING THESE DAMN GARBAGE MECHS

[@DutchGuyMike]

Well my friend, that is why they are reverting that whole spawn/reinforcement patch - it is/was broken. And inconsistent.

[@FriedBananas642]

Can you imagine how many players they would have still if they did what all the competent players asked them to do, which is bring everything up to the prenerf railgun. It would have been crazy! Honestly I’d bet they would still have several times the max players they ended up ever getting. What a magnificent obliteration of revenue by the balance team alone.

[@nimblehuman]

Kravchenko Effect

[@guardiantko3220]

Hell, they would've been justified in buffing the enemy patrols if they did that, even doubling it. Imagine how awesome it would be to be clearing thousands like it's EDF with less future Sci-fi

[@bartoluszek7111]

Well, you seem to miss the point - that is exactly what they want. They don’t want a game with 500.000 concurrent players. They will keep this up until there is about 5000 people left playing ( not a long way to go honestly) and when they achieve that they will focus on new content. They have absolutely no interest in making the game fun, and never did. The state of the game at launch was essentially pure luck.

[@burn1none]

@@bartoluszek7111 I said that to my friend last night and he didn't believe me they don't want so many players so they are actively trying to pare down the amount that plays through nerfs. I don't think it's too far fetched when they've basically told us it's too many people for them to handle

[@DutchGuyMike]

@@bartoluszek7111 That is idiotic.

[@dumbname1961]

i really hate it when devs use the "oH itS nOt ReAlisTiC enOuGh" REALISM IS NOT FUN!!! if reality was fun i'd go out to touch grass and do my tax accounting!! If HMG had backpack with belt feeder and 500 Rounds and 1level higher pen!. I'd use that gun over AMR railgun and recoilles even if it sucks, any day and everyday!! but 75 round feels just like a premature ejaculation. Your gun just stops without even doing anything, and you have to sit there babysitting ur hmg ammo like that soldier in that one video where the sergeant yells HEY ITS A MACHINE GUN! but wothout thw sergeant ever yelling so you're just kinda stuck there one tapping like its a semi

[@GalvanizeOO7]

At the size of the HMG magazine for it to only have 75 rounds it has to be shooting fucking red bull can-sized bullets, just look how huuuuge that magazine is and tell me it's realistic that thing only holds 75 rounds when the Stalwart holds 200

[@DutchGuyMike]

@@GalvanizeOO7 Well the Stalwart is also only of a tiny caliber.. the HMG penetrates armor level 4 - so the rounds are HUGE.

[@DutchGuyMike]

Well the Alexus guy did all the wrong things, that is why the CEO now became to CCO, to set things right/balance things right.