Why We Hate Natural Family Planning

[@thesportsanalyst4625]

Been struggling recently with my anxiety and depression about being single and I'm going to a wedding this weekend where I am the Best Man so I expect it to hit home a bit then. Praying for whomever my future wife is that God is helping her along her journey and in His time we can meet if we haven't yet :)

[@HDA_III]

Stay strong brother. Not everyone is called to marriage. Just focus on your faith, and hold on to that.

[@travismistry958]

You’re not alone dude! Tons of other guys, including me, are going through some of the same emotions and it’s tough. The message I keep getting from God when I ask why I haven’t met that special someone yet is “Why are you worried about what the future holds? I (God) have given you a day for you to enjoy, and you choose to spend sulking? I want to give you joy but you trap yourself in these negative thoughts about the future and miss out on the present.” Im not sure if you have the same thoughts I do, but I want to help. I will be praying for you, you just follow what God asks of you and I can bet you will be more joyful than you can imagine. Go enjoy each day!!! Again easier said than done, but I will be praying for you...

[@bethanyhenderson8686]

Im currently battling similar feelings, talking to a priest about dealing with envy and jealousy over watching other couples is a really big help. I too always stop in these moments and pray for my future spouse and even offer up the mental and physical frustrations, anxiety, loneliness, etc for that person whom I don't know yet. I feel at this point with all I've offered up so far that he is going to be pretty darn amazing lol!

[@danielorozco1728]

Bro, you DON'T need a woman in your life, true happiness comes by helping others out, not by other's acceptance

[@v-mariewilliams7058]

what if your vocation is to be single?

[@dsc4178]

As G.K. Chesterton said, and I paraphrase, "Good society is made by people who want freedom from indulging in vice, destroyed by those who want the freedom to indulge in vice."

[@clairenicholls]

Not catholic, just Protestant but this channel is AMAZING. Thank you Bobby for sharing here and your humanness.

[@kimpitts4822]

claire nicholls look into becoming catholic ahaha

[@clairenicholls]

Kimberly Pitts lol! Been there, done that. Though Catholic worship sure gets a whole bunch of stuff right that my crew don’t do. Will stay just where I am and keep the ecumenical dialogue happening 🙃

[@danifregoso1528]

@@clairenicholls why been there, done that? have you looked into RCIA, just to see what its about?

[@clairenicholls]

Dani Fregoso yup, and had a very excellent Catholic priest who took plenty of time to help explain the differences and similarities. He was the best! Simply, while there are many things Catholicism offers that I see as valuable, there are some things (mostly interpretation stuff) that don’t ring true. I believe we love and serve the same God, that we are called to be love and light in the world, and that those things are enough to unite us within Christ ecumenically

[@danifregoso1528]

claire nicholls oh that’s awesome that you took the time to learn more! what are some things that you saw you didn’t agree with?

[@realcanadiangirl64]

I used NFP even before I became a Catholic as I believed that the birth control pill prevented the fertilized embryo from implanting. Breastfeeding my children until they were two years old was also a very effective method way to plan my family. I had eight children. (Ending with twins at 40) NFP worked very well for me with only one unplanned pregnancy for me, which I was thrilled about. In the Bible it says that when a man and woman come together we should always be open to new life. I took that seriously and lived by His word and was Blessed.

[@somethinggood9267]

When you breast feed you cant conceive?

[@therealstewyward]

​@@somethinggood9267 It's not extremely reliable, but breastfeeding >8-10/day with no more than 6 hours between feedings can prevent ovulation from occurring. Don't be afraid to explore your options though, as most BC options don't mean preventing a fertilized zygote from implanting as mentioned above.

[@somethinggood9267]

@@therealstewyward is that 8-10 times a day? I didnt fully understand

[@therealstewyward]

@@somethinggood9267 >8-10/day = at least 8-10 times per day, yes. At every 6 hours, you're only breastfeeding 4 times a day, which means you're probably pumping or starting to introduce solids. Feeding 8 times a day is every 3 hours, and feeding 10 times a day is almost every 2.5 hours. The younger your infant is, the more frequently they tend to feed, which makes breastfeeding more likely to delay ovulation. As they get older, they feed less from mom and it signals to her body that the child is becoming more independent. The hormones are then able to fluctuate with the lower milk demand, even if the cycles are irregular at first.

[@telemassacre]

Ah, bible thumpers. Multiplying like rabbits

[@sofiaholmann]

Guys, this is the best: Husband-and-Wife video: "Why we love NFP" Husband-alone video: "Why I hate NFP" ;D

[@emilykelly2815]

Hehehe! Not quite that way in this household tho!

[@estherboersma]

Hahahahaha so funny 😆😆

[@RileySoares]

LOL

[@kemmow25]

As a married man, i am glad you did this as a one-on-one talk. Thanks for opening yourself up.

[@tjohnson200]

NFP is what separates the men from the boys. Tough but worth it. Solidarity, brother.

[@fantom5894]

Thought it was a crowbar. Who knew?

[@johnouellet8700]

It doesn't work for everyone...

[@thegreatrestoration6784]

NFP is a mortal Sin

[@adventureinallthings]

And it's not so bad for you really Tim because no matter what time of the month you will be prone to much the same levels of desire but your wife will naturally experience heightened desire at her most fertile time of the month ( every time ) so she must be prepared to only enjoy sex when it will feel best for her when she is prepared to welcome a new life to the world ( every time ) for life. That's not a cross you have to bear. Imagine you could only really enjoy sex at it best 5 times in your life. 🤔 I know of course that sex is probably best for both husband and wife when ' both 'are most desirous but that still does not change the fact that your wife must say no to sex at the times of her life she most desires it which asumming she doesn't want to be pregnant or nursing at all times is basically calculated on the back of an envelope for an average woman during her fertile married years about 1 in 30 or 40 times ( as in she can enjoy sex during the time of the month she most desires it only one time in every 30 or 40 times based on a proposition that she only wants to have four or five kids )🤔, you have it easy man in comparison, when you think about it🤔

[@adventureinallthings]

@P K you say ( sentence finishing with... it's absurd )above. I'm not sure I follow what you mean, can you elaborate ? Not being difficult, I just don't understand whatever point you are making

[@VeronicaMxoxo]

I really appreciated that you mentioned just because you are married does not mean you are entitled to intimacy, and NFP definitely accommodates that idea well. I've heard many Catholics say differently, as if once we become married we can forget about honoring our spouse as a person.

[@junekiarie3722]

That was quite the punchline! But my favourite.

[@carolinpurayidom4570]

Consent is important no one is entilted to sex no one

[@tyler597]

At least you’re only abstaining for like a week....Those of us with same sex attraction are abstaining from our desires for life.

[@ShiloStigen]

Tyler, I commend you for choosing to abstain for life, that is a courageous choice, and I respect you for it.

[@josephinegondwe8590]

Tyler W God bless your soul!

[@anthonymichaels7358]

Same for priests and religious who abstain for life! All people need prayers to grow in self mastery and purity.

[@DonaldKolenda]

My thoughts and prayers go with you, Tyler. I appreciate your testimony. Look to the Blessed Mother for guidance, help, and strength, along with St. Joseph. I'm sure it was not always easy for St. Joseph, either, yet he respected Mary's perpetual virginity also. I have found that when things are especially difficult regarding matters of purity, I throw myself more into prayer before the Blessed Sacrament, and looking for ways to stay busy serving others. Lots of exercise helps as well, as Bobby alluded to in the video. God bless you! Let me know if I can help you in any way.

[@roarrman]

Tyler W. Bro, I have so much respect for you. that alone is self mastery at it's finest

[@madelynnhass1353]

We are on vacation with my parents and we were unsure what the sleeping arrangements would be as we haven't stayed at this cabin before. We are in a fertile period and waiting until our youngest is two before we change our intention from avoiding go achieving. Anyhow, we walk in to the cabin. My husband and I have bunk beds to sleep in while we are here. We both laughed. Well played God, well played. ;P

[@sitka49]

who needs a bed to have sex?

[@toasted_.coconut]

As a woman in my 30s practicing self control during fertile days is not impossible, but it's very difficult thing. I'd almost rather pack up and move to a hotel alone while I'm ovulating.

[@KaitiandTaylorBFFL]

This is one of the realities of NFP that is not often talked about and I really appreciate it!! Thank you for this video!!!

[@2021-j2d]

Nothing worth having comes easily. Thanks for doing this series.

[@Nibster213]

Love your channels , I am Protestant for England and really take a lot from these and especially Father Mike Schmitz, you’re inspirational and definitely help to keep me on a narrower path. God bless, from the cold wet UK! X

[@joshualopez9175]

Hey ✌🏾 If I may ask, have u ever looked like into Catholicism?

[@DonaldKolenda]

A GREAT video, Bobby. This parallels my own experiences with NFP. We struggled at various times throughout our marriage as to whether or not to obey the Church's teaching or not. But in the end, the Holy Spirit convicted us that NFP is a good and proper way not just to abstain at certain times, but to grow in respect for one another as persons made in the Divine Image of God. I also love the quote that you read from Ven. Fulton Sheen. #Powerful. God bless you and Jackie for your ministry. I wish you guys were around 30+ years ago when we were in our 20's and 30's!

[@dumboxthomas6758]

Donald Kolenda I am so lucky and blessed to have everyone on Acsencion Presents and all the other Catholic media on KZbin. God bless us all!

[@DonaldKolenda]

@@dumboxthomas6758 Hi, Thomas, I feel the same way. This is such a beautiful channel; imparting the truth about the true Church founded by Jesus Christ, encouraging us all, and allowing us to help carry each others' burdens. God bless you!

[@mug5455]

"Sometimes I have to die to myself"....then I notice the skull in the background 😂 Great video!

[@timrichardson4018]

I became Catholic this passed Easter. My wife is still protestant. She agreed to do NFP and we got too ancy before really mapping out her cycle and now she's pregnant with our 5th child. Lol. But learning and better understanding the Church's teaching on sexuality made me realize just how selfish I was being about my desires! I feel terrible that I objectified her so much. I have genuinely grown in true love for her through this. My heart is accepting much more now that my role is to serve her.

[@andrewwhite1802]

Thank you for your video. My wife and I are discerning a call to join the Catholic Church (currently Anglican) but I have to admit this is the biggest hang up for me, so I appreciate my comment being read sincerely and from pastoral eyes. I assure you this is not meant to be trolling at all. I had a vasectomy half a decade ago as we were done having children. We both still feel that way. I understand that in catholicism I could in theory be in good standing if I were to have this reversed (though by this point chances of success are low), but I struggle with why I need to do that. After each of our pregnancies my wife struggled with significant mental health issues. Obtaining a vasectomy was in many ways a mercy for my wife. I felt not only at peace with this but as though it was the most loving thing to do for my wife. I struggle with recognizing this act of love as an act of sin. I do recognize that many things that people could construe as love are actually sin but I struggle to see how a Christian husband laying down his own desires for the well being of his wife is a sin. When searching online for the Catholic perspective to this I find NFP as the alternative. I struggle with this. As a medical professional I am aware the NFP when done correctly is more effective than condom use. So why then is NFP preferred? It seems that God would have better chances, so to speak, in make a condom fail than in making NFP fail. In other words, it would seem that NFP is more of a barrier to "the potential of life" than condoms are. NFP after all is done expressly for the purpose of avoid a new life. If a couple only has sex when the wife is not fertile, then they have taken the potential for life out of the equation just as much as wearing a condom takes it out of the equation (only more effectively so as mentioned above). Isn't NFP "inherently selfish" in that it is specifically done only for the purpose on preventing a pregnancy? Again, I recognize this comes off as argumentative but I genuinely am searching for answers. If we join the Catholic Church I want to do so in good faith. I can't stomach the idea of going to confessional and not confessing something that the church holds as a sin but I do not. Thank you in advance for your thoughts on this.

[@GerardoGarcia98218]

You are a brave man Abstaining from something like the sexual act is hard enough in and of itself; but to be in such close contact as you were in the last three videos... Like dude, I only wish I had that amount of self-restraint! Know that you and your family are in my prayers and I wish you the best on persevering in the great task that the Lord has given you God bless you and thank you!

[@VimaPHXAZ]

Look up the benefits of nofap too my man

[@candacedawn357]

I went to an NFP session and this one guy mentioned how abstaining in marriage helped him to have more respect for his wife because he didn't objectify her since there was no sex on demand.

[@mukami_kinyua]

I really like this reasoning 🙌

[@candacedawn357]

@@mukami_kinyua Yes! 😀

[@heyfrankybanky]

The best part is all that suffering and restraint makes you stronger!

[@amycrandell]

I actually would have really appreciated hearing your wife's perspective on abstaining because abstaining is just as hard for me as it is for my husband. I actually really struggle with NFP.

[@jennadavis2425]

The sinner's guide to natural family planning by Simcha Fisher, she talks about the difficulty of abstaining from the woman's perspective, among other things.

[@carolinpurayidom4570]

Being busy does help and the rosary

[@susankbboudreaux4540]

My husband and I decided when our second child was one year old we wanted to be faithful to the Catholic Church. We used NFP from the time I was 28 until I was 45 and had to have a hysterectomy because of diseased female organs. When we started NFP, I prayed God would help us stay faithful. We never used artificial birth control again. I would like to Say it was because we were virtuous, but it was because God answered my prayer in an unsuspected way. At 18 months our second child began manifesting severe autistic characteristics. We did not even think about relations till he was 7. It was easy to abstain when our goal was survival. We had to constantly watch him so he did not injure himself or our first child or us. We did not sleep deeply 2 years. Sometimes NFP is extremely easy. Even though our story is a little strange, I highly recommend NFP. It makes you truly appreciate one another and learn that sacrifice and love are the same thing.

[@countfleet2976]

My dude, were you ever a single guy? Cuz bro 15 days is nothing.

[@melindaanne6036]

15 days? Sperm only lives for 5 days in a woman’s body and an egg only lives for 6-12 hours!! If a person is abstaining for 15 days that’s overkill and they need to have some education in fertility and how the body works!! Lol

[@josephinegondwe8590]

Melinda Anne 😂😂 I had to laugh.

[@melindaanne6036]

Have you tried ovulation kits?

[@anitaklara7428]

Melinda Anne do you use them? do they work ? would you be able share your experience? I would be grateful.

[@9290SC]

@@anitaklara7428 I recommend Ovia fertile app, or Clue. You input your last period (along with your average cycle length) and it tells you when you're fertile. Pretty accurate from my experience.

[@WordsPictures997]

Thank you so much for this Bobby. This was sobering. Thank you so much for being honest about your own struggle as well. May God continue to bless you and your family.

[@HumanDignity10]

The grass is always greener. I was Catholic, fell away, engaged in lots of sexual sin, and eventually came back to Catholicism. Before I came back to Catholicism, my acupuncturist suggested I stop the pill and she recommended a book about NFP. My husband did not complain once when I went off the pill - he said I was much less moody and I was happier, which made his life easier 😊. So while the pill might sound easy and great, it's really not. Not only does it have physical side effects for women, it has a lot of emotional side effects for women that can then negatively affect the marriage and family.

[@Mary-momof8]

I taught NFP for 15 yrs, practiced it for 25. It's not easy to abstain when God made us to desire each other during the fertile period. We've had to use it during serious health issues over the years, and now that my husband's health isn't good, and perhaps widowhood in the future, that discipline will help. 😔

[@msjoby89]

Mary Z much love to you ❤️❤️

[@licimatt5484]

Thank you for sharing this very realistic and encouraging view. Many Catholics struggle with this but feel alone.

[@chanellergful]

It also requires a womans body to be at least semi-normal. For someone who struggles with extreme cycle disruption due to a number of different diagnosis can cause charting to not be as accurate or abstaining periods can last months or longer. I will say though, its not so common that temps and charts don't work for a woman. If she at first struggles or is irregular, she can tweak other things in her life like diet and exercise, but sometimes those types of issues may end in hysterectomies anyways due to severity and those women need to know that they have not sinned. So I completely agree with NFP, but if you have severe medical issues, please get a coach because it is not easy. Thanks for the series!

[@VideoMask93]

Get a coach anyway!

[@chanellergful]

@@VideoMask93 agree!! I know some people take the classes and theyre good but everyone could benefit from a coach!

[@v-mariewilliams7058]

coach definitely needed in that cae but I think any case coaching should be involved to ensure proper usage

[@chanellergful]

@@v-mariewilliams7058 totally agree!

[@chanellergful]

@Saint Anthony Of The Desert Media Co. amazing!

[@AG-kr1my]

Great video! NFP can be challenging, but it has blessed our marriage so incredibly!

[@Loolooette]

Struggling with this right now! Thank you for your grace, Jesus!

[@TheJoyoftheFaith]

LML keep it up! It is worth the wait :)

[@justinjoshy5058]

6:20 "Let's pray, yeah you, behind the camera" XD actually made me sit up and join my hands in prayer. I love this channel!

[@telemassacre]

because it brainwashes you

[@kowens8504]

Also some people use it to fall pregnant not avoid it. While listening to this I kept thinking of the question asked in the wedding ceremony “Do you willingly and freely accept children as given by God?” Not sure of the exact words but that’s what it meant to me. How many people say yes and then later on “but...”. It’s a serious thing to be open to life and abandon oneself completely to the plan of God regarding having children. To accept to have or not have children in accordance with His will. Praying for all Catholic married women.

[@KiwiKiller88]

I am learning more about Catholicism each day and am currently in RCIA. I understand this to a degree, I'm on a self imposed 7month abstinence period. But knowing how much being together intimately is important for a long lasting loving relationship I don't see myself ever being able to do this. It's easy to talk about platitudes about becoming closer to your partner and suffering through it, but if you read the Catholic forums about this it tells a different story. It almost cripples many relationships and leads to long lasting sadness. We are mortal beings for a reason, even if in the end we pass on, forsaking this life's most precious moments doesn't make sense to me. Someone please help me understand how this brings you closer to your partner?

[@AnnulmentProof]

Marital debt requires self-mastery, you could argue.

[@juanis8219]

I’ve thought a lot about marriage and having kids. However, I’m terrified of pregnancy bc even though im a full grown adult I’m very tiny and have a short, thin, fragile frame. On top of that the women in both sides of my family have had a history of miscarriages and complications. My mother almost died both times she gave birth and my brother and I almost didn’t make it either. The doctors told her she couldn’t have anymore kids or she and the baby almost certainly wouldn’t make it, so she didn’t. I don’t know if my body could handle it. I’ve also always had a very very strong desire to adopt children rather than make my own for several reasons. Being able to give children a second chance of being raised by loving catholic parents, and i genuinely don’t want to bring anymore children into this crazy world, etc. Also taking care of homeless, parent less kids is one of the best ways to be actively pro life by showing we DO care for kids after their born, not only before. My question is, would it be a sin if I were to use NFP in a future marriage to avoid pregnancy, even though I’d have children through adoption and of course raise them as Catholics? Or can you only use NFP if you’re open to having biological children. I’m willing to adopt as many children as I can as long as I’m able to give them everything they need including my time and attention. However I’d want them to have a father (my husband) because Id want to give them an example of a traditional family with a happily married mother and father, and sex seems to be a very important part of marriage so I don’t know if abstinence during the entire marriage is an option. Of course if it were Gods will that I have my own biological baby, and NFP would fail to prevent a pregnancy, I would be %100 open to that as well.

[@kyriek0811]

Oh my gosh 😂 the dad joke at the beginning though! 😂 I appreciated it 😊

[@MichaelAlledelaCruz]

Thank you so much for this video, for your sharing! This is really inspiring for those who are struggling to use/figure out NFP. May God bless everyone who chanced upon your works and most esp. may God bless you and your family.

[@ciclonatural.rossangelimd]

Me impactó mucho el quote de Fulton Sheen! “Cuando un hijo es dado a sus padres, se hace una corona para ese hijo en el Cielo, y ¡ay de los padres que crían a un hijo sin conciencia de esa corona eterna.”

[@cosdawg]

Brother…I love this video. I didn’t completely buy into NFP at first, but I am all for it now. I have heard all the arguments against. But your reasons are spot on. I would add, DIALOG is required between husband and wife. We are truly “equally yoked” with NFP. Thanks for the video.

[@relentlessrhythm2774]

I love the idea of self mastery and temperance. Society has made sex seem like something everyone is entitled to.

[@Orfiad]

I like the skull on your desk, Memento Mori!

[@danbianchi]

This is the best series ever on NFP we will be using this in our Marriage Prep classes. Thank you so much

[@doneliatonk7946]

It is unlikely that I will ever need to worry about NFP since I am a sr. citizen and single. I am anyway so impressed with the hope afforded women, marriages, families and the human race in general by this system, and its contribution to marital happiness and stability. I think ‘necessary periodic refraining’ from sex via NFP can protect & preserve marital sexual attraction, along with the other blessings indigenous to NFP. I think that artificial forms of family planning, and the huge subculture and the philosophy that grew out of the birth control boom, rampant at the time when I came of age, influenced my being unmarried and w/o my own children, when this is the opposite of what I desired, (although not necessarily to the exclusion of beginnings of a subsidiary career). ( there are certainly other influences, internal and worldly and maybe, also, religious that contributed to a life that I hadn’t always hoped for or expected, including the way God works in our lives) God teaches us to find meaning in our lives as they are and gratefully, I do { but never could w/o God’s help}. Among the blessings I enjoy is occasionally commenting on the encouraging works of God as I find them in social media. God bless.

[@vtstav]

For those who are concerned about the morality of NFP, here is an excerpt from Humanae Vitae which I think clearly identifies that the teaching of the Church does not condemn its use as a manner of spacing out births (i.e. birth control) - specifically because it acts in cooperation with the natural order of our biology as God has designed it. Artificial birth control, on the other hand, is a means of imposing our will and intellect over God's and thus acts against His creative design. "... The Church is the first to praise and commend the application of human intelligence to an activity in which a rational creature such as man is so closely associated with his Creator. But she affirms that this must be done within the limits of the order of reality established by God. If therefore there are well-grounded reasons for spacing births, arising from the physical or psychological condition of husband or wife, or from external circumstances, the Church teaches that married people may then take advantage of the natural cycles immanent in the reproductive system and engage in marital intercourse only during those times that are infertile, thus controlling birth in a way which does not in the least offend the moral principles which We have just explained. (20) Neither the Church nor her doctrine is inconsistent when she considers it lawful for married people to take advantage of the infertile period but condemns as always unlawful the use of means which directly prevent conception, even when the reasons given for the later practice may appear to be upright and serious. In reality, these two cases are completely different. In the former the married couple rightly use a faculty provided them by nature. In the later they obstruct the natural development of the generative process..." - Humanae Vitae, section 16 The full document can be found here, in the Vatican archives: w2.vatican.va/content/paul-vi/en/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-vi_enc_25071968_humanae-vitae.html

[@eveadams953]

Thank you! This was exactly what I wanted to say...

[@GuadalupePicasso]

This is an important point that I think that many devout Catholics today miss.

[@Unclenate1000]

The document literally defines Contraception in sweeping broad terms and then contradicts itself in trying to say NFP is different. It ultimately throws up its hands and says "well at least those using NFP have to have some discipline and not consummate at certain times of the month" lol.

[@eveadams953]

@Unclenate1000 NFP strives to respect the fertility of the couple and the act of sexual union. Contraception refuses to respect fertility and claims that the sexual union is for the momentary pleasure. NFP shows the ultimate Love for both people by saying with your body that you can have self-control. Whereas contraception shows that people can be used like objects and that self-control shouldn’t be expected. NFP states that all people have inherent value and dignity. Contraception states that people are only important if they can be used. Idk, maybe it takes moral maturity to see the difference.

[@eveadams953]

I don’t mean for that last statement to sound that snarky. I didn’t always have that maturity to see how I was treating my spouse or my own fertility. But I’ve grown and sincerely wish that kind of growth for others.

[@jrwalker1048]

The growth a man experiences while committing to observing NFP is truly following the footsteps of Christ.

[@theresahernandez7310]

You should talk about the fact that NFP is only to be used in a serious situation not a free for all. And to only be used for a specific amount of time. Example: wife is having mental health issues or you can’t afford another child right now or you have a special needs child that needs extra attention. Pope John Paul II said so himself. You missed that point in all 4 of your videos.

[@username1172]

Theresa Dvorak I’ve been pretty worried to see so many catholic KZbin’s promote NFP and not mention this

[@BigPontheDot]

Username11 they’re just promoting contraception with extra steps.

[@Silentman333]

Mistranslation

[@sielsounds]

The issue you’re addressing is really a separate teaching I think. This inherently has to do with a couples’ decision to have more children or not. That’s where the morality portion lies. NFP is not moral or immoral in its own right. And on top of that, NFP is two sided. It’s not simply used to “not have more children”. It can be used to HAVE more children when it’s difficult, track and heal PCOS, and uncover a host of other ailments... degrading the power of NFP to simply “another form of birth control” (which it’s not!!) is equally as harmful in my opinion.

[@kowens8504]

Yes or it just becomes a form of contraception where a couple can separate themselves from the procreative plan of God.

[@olololo9224]

Can you please talk about situations when NFP is misused and actually harms the marriage? Like when one partner denies the other during fertile times bc one doesn’t want children anymore because they feel they have enough to take care of while the other is open to the struggle of new life creating years of stress?

[@zaidalouise2152]

I love y’all so much ❤️ going to start up my YT channel soon. Lifestyle content with a Catholic twist.

[@KristinaMassa17]

Just subscribed!

[@kylemclaughlin8319]

Do you know Vivyanhamo just out of curiosity? Lol and I just subscribed!

[@zaidalouise2152]

Kyle McLaughlin I do! I love her so much 💕 never met personally but we are good online friends. And thank you so much friend 💕💕💕💕💕🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻 means a lot to me.

[@silentcraftsman]

Kristina Massa me too!

[@silentcraftsman]

Just subscribed. Looking forward to your content!

[@JoeyC0914]

Best one yet! God Bless yall

[@bradleychampagne9103]

If you can predict exactly when she's fertile and are avoiding it, and just doing the marital act when she's not, can you reeeaaally say you're trusting God with your family?

[@abcdefghijkati3]

I say yes, because you're not putting any unnatural barriers between a potential egg and sperm. You're using the bodies that God gave you, and trusting that He will do with them what He intends. I'm trying to think of an analogy but struggling...Okay, hear me out, I got one! Imagine those games at a carnival or county fair, where you have to throw the ball at the target to win a prize (read: make a baby). You want to play the game but not win a prize because you don't have room in the car to take the prize home. (STAY WITH ME, I'M TRYING, HERE. 😅) So you only throw the ball when the target isn't up, or avoid the target by aiming the ball to the sides of it. But, there's a dude in the booth running the game (God, lol) who has control of the targets. He sees you being a weirdo and has the ability to move the target to line up with one of your throws so you can win a prize anyways. If you showed up to the game with armful of saran wrap and put up a wall between your throws and the target, there would be little to no chance of you ever hitting the target. By purposefully throwing anywhere but the target, you played the game the way it's supposed to be played, just..... very badly. Annnnnnnd, I may have just convinced myself that your original argument is actually valid. I'll be going now.

[@Unclenate1000]

exactly. It's just a more natural, passive method of the same thing.

[@EllGirl]

I see where you're coming from. but it's not just about trusting God with your family. It's also about spouses giving themselves to one another in a free, total, faithful, and fruitful way. There is a difference between avoiding pregnancy and preventing pregnancy. Celibate people "avoid" pregnancy by, obviously, just not ever having sex. Similarly, spouses can "avoid" pregnancy by using intermittent abstinence. This way, every sexual act they DO engage in has nothing withheld and nothing blocked--their bodies can work naturally and come together totally. But, when contraceptives are used, pregnancy is "prevented" within that sexual act. In this case, the pregnancy that could potentially be occurring within that sexual act is intentionally prevented by the couple. It's good for spouses to still have sex even when they have good reason to not have a child for the time being, because sex has two purposes: bonding, and babies. You can have the bonding without the babies, because that's natural. You're body is not always fertile. But you can't have the bonding without the babies WHENEVER YOU WANT, which is not natural, because the body is not supposed to always be infertile. So, by using NFP, we're working together WITH how God designed our reproductive system, rather than circumventing it. The trust part comes in a few ways: 1) praying about when to try to have another child, 2) there's still that small chance of becoming pregnant when not trying to, 3) trusting in whether or not God will grant a pregnancy when you are fertile and you decide your reasons for abstaining are no longer more important than your union in that moment, 4) trusting the natural cycle of fertility and infertility that God designed, rather than choosing to override God's design and make your sex-life constantly sterilized/infertile. God gave us brains, and God gives us the will to cooperate with him or not. His plan isn't so much some pre-determined script that we discover or miss out on, but cooperating with the principals of love that he taught us, and listening to his still small voice within us. It's cooperating with his design, with how he made us. NFP works with God's design, but contraception, as convenient as it may seem, always works contrary to God's design.

[@bradleychampagne9103]

@@EllGirl My point is: if you have the (accurate) knowledge of your wife's fertility cycle, there is the potential for NFP to be abused. You're right: spouses do give themselves freely, faithfully, and fruitfully to each other; contraception is not allowed; God gave us brains; sex can help keep the spouses bonded while avoiding pregnancy. That last part must be for a serious reason such as danger of birth defects, concern for death of (or injury to) the mother or infant, actual financial hardship, and the like. There's either a serious reason to use periodic continence (NFP), or there's NO reason to use it. It's there for those who really need it. It's not there for us to use to habitually have fun without reaping the consequences by avoiding her most fertile times. That would, seemingly, put it on the same level as using contraception. I don't believe NFP is evil or heretical, but if you're using it without a serious reason, you're probably abusing it. If you're truly not ready to have another child but are not in a serious condition, the church recommends abstaining to allow your wife's body to recuperate, pray, fast, practice mortifications (penance), etc. which we all should be doing anyway. Other than that, spouses, keep the potential saints coming!

[@lnambz]

You also have a responsibility to be wise and good stewards of your family. Children should be considered and prepared for. Can actually just be reckless to not attempt to track things and make wise decisions

[@john-michaelrachelpauze4916]

Jackie and Bobby thank you so much for your recent videos on contraception and NFP. They are so helpful and much needed in today's world when there is so much confusion surrounding our sex and sexuality. Would you make a video on chastity within marriage? I'd love to hear your thoughts and wisdom in how to live out purity within marriage when it might be easy to slip into the mindset of "anything goes now that we're married". Keep up the great work, and may Jesus bless your ministry abundantly! In Christ, Rachel Pepmeyer

[@hchawkinsiii]

All of the things that they said you shouldn't do, I did, and it destroyed my marriage.

[@chrismckay7795]

This is amazing. Thank you so much for sharing all of this Bobby. Please, keep it up!!!

[@odalybonilla4757]

Thank you so much 😊 for sharing the truth, the likes and dislikes of Natural family planning. In the Hispanic community it’s tough and sort of difficult to teach this to many couples. I as a young Hispanic woman and who knows English, I can learn through you two with your videos. I hope to learn as much as I can so I can one day teach them the virtue of Natural family planning. God bless your beautiful family. ❤️❤️ greetings from Boston, MA!!

[@relentlessrhythm2774]

We need more men to be humble and speak out on this!

[@EmiliaTytto]

I was almost about to convert to catholicism from protestant background, but I just havent got to the point where i could accept NFP without a resistance. Dont get me wrong id love to have children, but abstaining in a marriage just sounds TOO hard, a lot of suffering.

[@hayat7300]

Do protestants use contraception? Like condom or pills?

[@hayat7300]

sorry, i am searching all the religions and you are the only one i can ask.

[@EmiliaTytto]

@@hayat7300 hello, many protestants use contraception, pills and condoms. Of course there are some who dont but I think in General we do use artifical contraception. Im about to become catholic this spring and im so happy about it. Ive understood about NFP that is about Trusting God in my case. Also i was afraid of nfp but not so much anymore. I mean, im soon 30 years old and if i ever get married, who even knows if im able to have a child? My point is that I cant really know the future and i cant/I dont even need to know. Life is not about being in control of everything...and of course being in control is an illusion. God bless my friend and i pray you will find your way 🙏🏻😊

[@ournewshows]

Ok, no masturbation as a teen, no pre-marital sex later on and now that you are married you must "carry the cross" of NFP, unless you want another kid . . . isn't this rather severe and hypocritical coming from a group of men who have perpetrated and covered up decades of sexual perversion with children?

[@abad-enoughdude._.3919]

Your mistake is looking at what these flawed humans did. Christ is unwavering and does not bend to the whims of society nor the individual man. The notion that a bunch of humans could ever trample Christ is hilarious.

[@ournewshows]

@@abad-enoughdude._.3919 actually, you're hilarious . . .

[@abad-enoughdude._.3919]

@@ournewshows should have known you were just common rabble...

[@ournewshows]

@@abad-enoughdude._.3919 wow, you christians are certainly kind to others, so much for "turning the other cheek" . . . have a good day!

[@Unclenate1000]

the hypocrisy is logically besides the point even though you're not wrong technically. When priests do that they are going against their own doctrines. However yeah their doctrines are unnecessarily extreme and stupid, and not an accurate reflection of actual practical ethics.

[@mikkis668]

An extremely straight and honest question to you Bobby: I'm new to Catholic teaching. I've been married for 25 yrs and we always used contraception. The best time of the month was when my wife ovulated... (well, I warned you this would be honest)... According to Catholic teaching, can't you have sex and enjoy each others bodies without intercourse during the fertile period? Is total abstinence the only option? (I would like to show my grown up kids about NFP and the Theology of the Body, but I'm still learning myself. If this question is too radical, and you don't want to answer within a few days, I will delete it) God with us.

[@dianneraimondi8382]

Masterbation is a mortal sin and is unnatural!

[@mikkis668]

@@dianneraimondi8382 😅 Who's talking about masturbation here? I'm not, I have a wife. 😉

[@veddermn8]

Probably highly depends on one's "needs" or drive here. Quite a few couples who have been married a little while and have small kids aren't really doing it all that much anyway . Screaming kids, bills and no sleep are great "cold showers".

[@japojo1958]

Nfp is a killer. It is nevertheless the only moral way to deal with this difficult issue. Be ready though that nfp can lead to a complete destruction of intimate life. And that's no joke. One thing that you needed to talk about though Bobby is the marital debt. We are required to fulfill that debt on pain of sin. This makes nfp much more difficult again. Then add in serious medical problems and well - the life of a monk looks much more appealing.

[@nicbrasali9202]

Sorry... Still not convinced... Maybe my problem is more complocated. I'll keep thinking as you say anyway... Thank you for sharing.

[@DanyTV79]

Thanks for the video, brothers. God bless you.

[@niqhtinqale]

If NFP is the better alternative to contraception, go for it. If you do NFP with your husband to avoid pregnancy for no grave reason, please reconsider.

[@tomfetter4011]

Awesome stuff. And yeah, self-mastery approached in any area of life rubs off in other areas of life. We essentially did this, and after almost 30 years of marriage have 3 wonderful kids. Exactly as many as we'd hoped to have, btw.

[@HelenaElenahelena]

Did you not wanted more children? Me and my husband are married 9 years and doing the billings method have had 2 planned children now pregnant with our third child due in November think we are done after this baby but not entirely sure, just feel a bit pressure from being a Catholic couple if 3 is enough my parents had 7 of us and few miscarriages.

[@tomfetter4011]

We wanted 3. We met and married relatively late, so 3 kids in 10 years was what arrived; our youngest was born when Herself was 41. Herself's health has never been great, and pregnancy was tough on her. Having 3 meant that by living very intentionally, we could manage on one moderate income ... thereby priorizing child rearing. She was the earner earlier on, with me doing more toddler-care as I finished grad school ... then we flipped roles. Our kids got much more of and from us than if we'd each had to spend the best hours of our days away from them.

[@tsamneely]

1 Cor 7:5 "Stop depriving one another, except by mutual agreement for a brief time so that you may devote yourselves to prayer, and come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control." (this refers to fasting and prayer not a continual withholding just because)

[@maxgirouxpro]

NFP trains us in love and patience and self-mastery, and that is why we hate it. makes perfect sense.

[@randomrt8135]

I have been abstaining since June when my wife gave birth. It is now November. My wife is freaked out about being pregnant again so early so playing it safe. ~_~

[@oiiii3898]

I’m dealing with this situation now...

[@LG-cu7kt]

This NFP thing works only if the spouses are getting along. If there are problems in the marriage, the church directive on contraception, forcing you to NFP or roll the dice, pushes the couple further away from each other.

[@vincenzorutigliano5435]

Are you saying that from experience or is that what you imagine happens? I ask because I have heard opposite testimonies.

[@LG-cu7kt]

@@vincenzorutigliano5435 from experience and logic. How can you do all that planning if things are terrible ?

[@lanievinther8710]

Self mastery is great and all but what about ppl with syndromes like PCOS who literally have no way of charting their cycle... bc it’s so incredibly irregular and comes and goes as it pleases.

[@doddsalfa]

You are a simple man willing to improve

[@deborahtofflemire7727]

We are older and no longer able to have children. But even we cant always do things any time we want. God still calls us to wait .Our bodies get older and sometimes we need to wait.If you know what I mean.

[@sury92anto]

As a single woman who wants to practice NFP when she gets married, how can I start to get to know my body and my cycles?

[@marc7585]

Find a local nfp doctor, class, or couple who knows a lot about NFP and hopefully they should be of some help (your local diocese may have some info on this!) I think it's awesome that you are single and wanting to practice NFP bc it can be so empowering!!! Prayers for endurance, patience, and peace for your NFP journey 💜

[@sury92anto]

Mar C thank you!!

[@mariahthomas1584]

Thanks for the honesty!

[@MissMonotheist]

I never understood NFP since the ovulatory period for the women is when her sexual desire peaks. In that way it is rough for the wife since she cannot be with her husband when her natural desire is strongest. It is the only birth control method approved by the church, though, so we are kind of stuck unless you just pray and wing it! lol

[@abad-enoughdude._.3919]

I support NFP but if you read the Bible it would seem like even this method is not in agreement with Christ. In fact it seems no contraception is agreeable.

[@JM-qs8up]

Another thing that encourages self sacrifice? Truly being open to children.... Pregnancy, and more children, will require self sacrifice. Unless there is grave cause, NFP should not be used.

[@ianmackenzie686]

Men likewise shouldn't be treated like robots to be done with as pleased. Not all ovulating women are passive little flowers.

[@AandM8]

Has a parent, I definitely don’t need NFP to say no to sex. I’m already sleep deprived and stressed most of the time. Also, healthy sexual urges are not selfish ☺️

[@username1172]

I thought pope pius the XII said that NFP can only be used in very dire circumstances...? Not as a way to avoid pregnancy under normal circumstances?

[@VideoMask93]

Username11 It should be used to space out births, not prevent them altogether.

[@M1and5M]

So if I use a condom to space out births but not prevent them, can I use it?

[@cmm2145]

M1and5M You can’t use a condom and still be in line with Catholic teaching. Married people of child bearing age are to be open to life at all times. You cannot be open to life when you are using a condom or any other kind of artificial birth control. NFP is not birth control. It is for birth regulation and spacing. God does not call everyone to have 15 kids. Some people freely choose to have a large family like that, but there is no mandate that married couples must have a large number of children. When using NFP, spouses are to discuss and pray about whether or not they are in a position to welcome new life that month. So every month, same discussion. There are valid reasons for avoiding pregnancy. Maybe they can’t afford another child at the moment. Maybe the wife is going to have surgery soon. Maybe someone in the house has a serious medical issue, like cancer. There are others. But avoiding pregnancy for selfish reasons is not what NFP is for. If the spouses have decided that they have a valid reason for avoiding pregnancy, then they must exercise self control and abstain from sex during the wife’s fertile time.

[@Silentman333]

Mistranslation

[@VideoMask93]

@@M1and5M No, because using a condom is a distinct act that goes against the sexual act. NFP is not going against the sexual act, but disciplining it and at times abstaining from it. You don't sin by NOT having sex.

[@samstag947]

From another catholic vid I am getting that nfp should be used for serious issues only, like health and difficult economic situations. Is that true? I see catholics using it for less than that.

[@dragosc8326]

Great videos and great subject, sex and love in marriage. But what happens when your/my wife has an irregular period? Using NFP a crown for our forth child is being build these months. :) We welcome him/her, but man is not easy.

[@cmm2145]

Dragos C My husband and I faced that issue when we were first married. We needed to postpone pregnancy for six months because we both needed to have surgery. I have Poly Cystic Ovarian Syndrome, so I didn’t ovulate every month. My estrogen levels were high and my body didn’t produce enough progesterone. So, based on cervical mucus, I had symptoms of fertility three weeks out of the month. I know that I wasn’t actually fertile for three weeks out of the month, but anytime my cervical mucus was thin, we had to assume that there was a chance that I was fertile. So we abstained a lot. After the first six months, we wanted a baby, so we didn’t have to abstain. We were never able to have a baby, so we never had to abstain. I had two very early miscarriages. I conceived, but my body didn’t produce enough progesterone to sustain the pregnancy. I don’t really know what is best in your situation. You should contact a local NFP teaching couple and ask them.

[@itsCazarex]

Dragos C I’m not married, but I’ve talked with couples who were in similar situations, mostly were people who couldn’t afford another child, or cases in which if the mother went to another pregnancy, her life would be at risk. They all talked to their priest to see their options, NFP sounds awesome but sometimes the reality of things won’t let that alone be the answer. For women with irregular periods, they should specially be paying attention to their bodies, the symptoms they display and vaginal discharges can say a lot about the fertility they have for that day.

[@cmm2145]

Cázarex For a practicing Catholic, NFP is the only approved way to space children. If you’re using artificial birth control to supplement it, that’s a mortal sin.

[@denissearce3551]

As a woman with several issues regarding my period I can tell you that sometimes irregularities may be the result from another problem in our health. When trying to understand NFP I always saw this as an obstacle thinking that NFP could be an option to some women and not me. Now I am very grateful because that pushed actually look for the cause. If I had used contraception I would have never discovered the real health issues that I am dealing with today.

[@jonquilgemstone]

Irregular periods can be a sign of hormonal imbalances or other health problems. Find the root of it, and deal with that ☺

[@samuelgeiger9947]

Great video and great series. I appreciate how upfront you are about it and discuss the realities of things that aren’t normally discussed and are an example of how to live as a catholic man in today’s society. I know this is the end of the series but I hope you and Jackie do another video series of something similar.

[@jimbo3847]

NFP, which I understands liegtimately is licit in certain circumstances, for the vast majority of Catholics seems to lead to frustrating one another's spouse and denying their legimate right to 'acts which per se give rise to the generation of children' i.e. the marital debt.

[@AnnulmentProof]

The object of marital consent is the body. Yes you do have the right.

[@thereselastname9197]

The marriage bed is husband, wife and God...just like the Holy Trinity...God gives Himself fully to us the Church. Likewise, man may not frustrate what God created. Marriage is a covenant not a contract. Every act must be open to life with no barriers (oman) and pleasurable unity of husband and wife in a spiritual mind and body and soul communion. No contraceptives...this frustrates Gods plan. NFP is the best method that does not violate God's commands. In the end we are called to chastity.

[@Unclenate1000]

even though you're effectively doing the same thing with NFP as with other contraceptives.

[@thereselastname9197]

Not exactly...with contraceptives they claim they are 99 percent effective...anyhow whether on pill or using a condom it is something unnatural manmade that you are using to prevent pregnancy....whereas in NFP you are looking at your fertile times and abstain...you can still get pregnant open to life part in your infertile time becuase of miscalculation etc..you are spacing out your pregnancies ...but it is natural...the intent should not be total prohibition on getting pregnant forever if it is then it would be a mortal sin even if you are doing NFP

[@BedboundME]

The earth can only cope with a finite amount of humans. If families have average eight kids by letting nature “do its thing” or as you would say God allow life, the worlds population blows up to unsustainable levels. The ideas praising mega fertility (many ancient cultures put huge emphasis on fertility with fertility goddesses etc) was because mortality and infant mortality and maternal mortality was so high. The composer Bach wrote proudly in a letter that he had eight children still living or something, there would have been way less in earlier times. This is why there was ability for high birth rate and why early societies valued it, with so much emphasis, as it ensures the survival of their tribe or people. Gods commandment to go forth and multiply if you wd believe it, was in same times. We live in indifferent times. Infant mortality In the west is rare for eg. We have to therefore reduce numbers, not just carry on reproducing to the max. Look at the overcrowding and poverty in countries like Nigeria.

[@thecatholiccorner]

That joke in the beginning had me dead!!! 🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@Sarah-fm6ll]

Wonderful video!

[@rschiwal]

This is a true story. My parents practiced natural family planning. They were taught by their priest. The week before he was to marry them he gave "The talk." Every time he talked about "the deed", my mom would try to make my dad uncomfortable by squeezing his knee, but Dad didn't even respond, no matter how hard she tried. In the parking lot she finally complimented his composure when she squeezed his knee under the table. His response; "You didn't squeeze my knee." After 13 kids they realized they were doing it backwards; possibly by learning it from a slightly distracted priest.

[@Animebrity.]

Thats up to you and the spouse and the Lord

[@CynthiaL]

Lovely perspective

[@saramariani3906]

but NFP has still a contraceptive mindset. You skip the fertile days on purpose to avoid pregnancy and then have sex during the infertile period when you know almost for sure you're not going to conceive. Is that in it self not sinful in a way? I'm confused

[@JIKING77]

I'm confused about it too.

[@Unclenate1000]

thats precisely what it is, they just deny and beat around the bush when that point you made is brought up.

[@Sparkitis22]

So is there a problem with a couple pleasing each other without sexual intercourse during fertile times? Why do our desires have to be denied if there are other ways for sexual unity to be achieved outside of intercourse?? And I can't avoid the question: Is not intentional abstinence when both people desire sexual unity also a form of contraception? Two people are actively working against conception, no?

[@Unclenate1000]

not so much the abstinence as it is the deliberate searching for the infertile period to then have sex. definitely a form of contraception, just passive vs active in its method. their reasonings for why they're allegedly different continue to be trivial and stupid

[@lilyofthevalley4740]

So what happens when your wife dies? Or you're not married? Surely it's not that tough to abstain for a few days when you are married?

[@Wgaither1]

Why is it a mortal sin to use birth control? Because the church says so ? But the church is silent on other sins, if it is mortal or venial. Why is that?

[@chrismckay7795]

"...silent on other sins? " Well thats not true. Bit exaggerated there i think 😄

[@lishmahlishmah]

Wgaither1. Just go and read the Catechism of the Catholic Church ... You'll see how "silent" the Church is... 😂😂😄😅😆 I would say the Catholic Church is a bit *talkative* 😄 about all-type-sins ...

[@Unclenate1000]

To them it goes against the "Natural law" because basically sex is for fertility and if you use it for something else they consider that bad. Which is dumb because its just them creating morals out of thin air based on standards that "should" be followed. Their reasoning is abstract (Like table manners) and not practical. They conflate using something for an alternative purpose with it using it for evil. Imagine if I said that digging dirt with a pick or doing a handstand is immoral, simply because we are "misusing" things away from what they were made for.

[@Wgaither1]

lishmah lishmah In the book of Colossians in says Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly . So if someone doesn’t read or study the word of God for like 5 days in a row, is that a mortal or venial sin.

[@Wgaither1]

Chris McKay in the Bible it says to pray without ceasing. So if a person hardly prays is that a mortal or venial sin . Or is the church silent on that

[@samuel968]

Might be good to change the title? I was hesitant to watch this because of the word “hate”. Maybe change it to “Struggles with NFP”

[@liam7664]

Hi, I was born and raised Orthodox and later converted to the LDS church, Lately I’ve been studying catholic and orthodox theology, with the aims of leaving the LDS church and joining one of the two. What advice would you (anyone reading this comment) have for me? Thank you. God bless you.

[@patrickfiehn2945]

Liam Evans Pray! Nothing’s better than prayer when it comes to decisions of faith. Buuut if you want to look into the Catholic Church, I suggest you look into Ven. Fulton Sheen’s apologetics. Great man of great faith and wisdom. God bless!

[@chickenbonelives]

Pray the rosary every day. Read the Catechism of the Catholic Church. Go to Mass. I would highly recommend finding and travelling to a Latin Mass parish to hear it in the traditional rite and inquire about conversion there. I don't want to get super trad on you but as a new Catholic myself the thing that has really kept me in faith is the traditional liturgy. God bless you and I hope you have a great journey home.

[@Seethi_C]

Do you believe that God would allow His Church to be destroyed for nearly 1800 years, only for a mere man to somehow restore the Church that Jesus failed to establish properly? That's truly what it comes down to.

[@icedsassyamericana]

Liam Evans Hello. I would recommend lots of prayer and trying out the rosary and divine mercy chaplet. Also the KZbin channel OLGCPlymouth have great RCIA series and Steubenville Conference have great keynote speakers. I’m speaking as a convert from none believing Lutheran to practicing Catholic. God bless :)

[@wfleming537]

The most inportant thing is to keeping learning and pray for God's guidance, as a Catholic let me say that if you do lean toward becoming Catholic don't let small questions or doubts be a hinderance to you the Catholic church welcomes questions and doubts its ok not to be convinced on every issue right away the important thing is to always be growing learning and submit your will to the church on issues that challenge you we believe that the church has a God given authority. Trust in that while you grapple with the finer theological points.

[@PeteSeeker455]

Nicely said! Thanks, Pete D.---

[@dh14785200]

If you are "open to another child", then why are you doing NFP? This is completely illogical.

[@clairemullan3241]

Yes, I was confused at first too. They are still open to a child because they don't use artificial contraception. In NFP, you purposefully have sex during an infertile time, but you are doing nothing to directly block pregnancy. They are still open to the slight chance that there might be a child.

[@dh14785200]

@@clairemullan3241 Thank you for the reply. Here are my questions. (1) Isn't it "artificial" to take temperatures and make charts? How is math less "artificial" than chemistry? (2) Doesn't deliberately avoiding sex during a time of known fertility for the express purpose of blocking pregnancy constitute a non-willingness to be open to having a child? (3) Couldn't it be said of all contraceptive methods that the couple are "open to the slight chance", since all (except radical sterilization) have a failure rate?

[@dh14785200]

@Grace Clark Your thoughtful reply makes really good sense, but to me, it doesn’t resolve the logic problem. I don’t want to be a troll here, just to share the truth, and here it is. Natural birth control has been practiced for centuries by Christians and every other society in the world. It’s called coitus interruptus, and we all know it doesn’t work very well. Withdrawal does, however, work better than any “fertility-awareness based methods”, according to the CDC. All the facts, statistics, and research are easy to find on the web. My grandparents were NFP pioneers; they taught the class in their local parish! They were diligent and careful, and had six children while doing it. Finally they accepted the truth, started the pill, and stopped having children. The most basic problem is that NFP simply does not work, especially in the long term. NFP is pseudoscience. NFP is based on superstitious beliefs about nature, not on the sanctifying grace of sacramental marriage. As your wedding analog said, “God, I don’t want you here!” and that says it all: you're incorrectly conflating grace with biology. I have personally seen NFP shatter marriages, cause unwanted children to be born, and distort healthy sexuality. The suffering produced by this is needless and heartbreaking (for evidence, see the video above) and certainly not sacrificial or redemptive. Even its name is misleading, as there’s nothing natural about thermometers or calendars. God is in charge, not nature; calling something natural does not make it godly. God has given us wonderful tools that we should be using for healthy and beneficial purposes. Speaking of misnomers, I must address an error. The word “contraception” has root words in Latin, but they do not mean “against life” (rather you’d use something like “versus animam”). Please stop saying that contraception “literally” means “against life” because that is false. God bless you.

[@Unclenate1000]

Exactly David. They're reasoning is stupid because of the self-denial that its really just a passive method of contraception.

[@EllGirl]

@@dh14785200 I'd like to take a stab at answering your great questions! Here are my thoughts: (1) I would argue that math is absolutely different than chemistry. With charting, you are not doing anything artificial; you are simply observing, counting, and measuring. You're not altering anything in the woman's body or altering the sexual act in any way. Birth control pills, on the contrary, inherently put the woman's body into an unnatural state; it is not healthy or natural for a post-pubescent, pre-menopausal woman to not be ovulating regularly and/or not be menstruating regularly, but that's exactly what hormonal birth control does to the body. Now, chemistry is not evil, and can be used for good purposes. For example, I use Creighton charting along with taking progesterone 10 days out of my cycle to help my cycle function more like it is supposed to function, because I was having long, irregular cycles due to my body not producing the hormone levels it should be producing. It's all about working with the body, helping it work the way it is supposed to work, rather than altering something to function in an improper way. (2) The "openness to having a child" is tied to the actual sexual act. You can be generally open to having children but still have good reason to space them out with periodic abstinence; however, you can also misuse abstinence within marriage. Both of these scenarios, for example, would be wrong: a) using NFP in order to prevent ever having children within your marriage, and b) being married but completely abstaining for excessively long periods of time in order to prevent pregnancy (because in marriage, you are called to a conjugal union). See, in Catholicism, we believe in BOTH of the purposes of sex: procreation AND union of the spouses. Neither of these things should be denied. So, there is nothing immoral about having sex during infertile times in order to unite the spouses; there is also nothing wrong with abstaining from sex for 8-10 days if you have good reason to not have a child at that time. This is inherently different than birth control. With barriers, pulling out, etc., you are engaging in a potentially fertile act but blocking your spouse's fertility, thus denying part of your spouse. With hormonal birth control, you are putting the woman's body into an unnatural state, sending the message that her fertility is bad and unwanted--you want the sex on demand, without the fertility. But that's not how our bodies are made to work. **We're not made to be constantly infertile.** (3) I'd say what's different is the mindset, and what the use of the contraceptives communicates. When you're using a contraceptive, your purpose is to have sex whenever you want but still prevent pregnancy. A contraceptive "fails" when you become pregnant. This is a completely different mindset from NFP. In NFP, your purpose is NOT to have sex whenever and prevent a pregnancy from occurring within that sexual act. Your purpose is to have the knowledge of when you're fertile or not, so you can choose when to have sex depending on whether you're trying to avoid or achieve pregnancy. If you're using it properly, there should be no such thing as a surprise pregnancy, because you know when you choose to engage in sex whether or not you're fertile. Yet, if some miracle occurs and pregnancy happens surprisingly, your mindset is more likely to be open to the child as a gift rather than a mistake, because you haven't been purposefully sterilizing your sexual acts. Do some people who use contraceptives still welcome their unintended pregnancies as gifts? Of course. But, although they may technically be "open to the slight chance" of pregnancy, their action of using contraceptives to sterilize their sexual acts communicates otherwise. NFP doesn't sterilize any sexual act. Intention matters a lot in Catholic moral theology. So lastly, I think this is important to point out: there's an inherent difference between "preventing" pregnancy and "avoiding" pregnancy. A celibate person is "avoiding" pregnancy by not ever having sex. A periodically abstaining couple is "avoiding" pregnancy by abstaining from sex during fertile periods. But a contracepting couple is "preventing" a pregnancy from occurring during their sexual act; they're actively trying to prevent a pregnancy that would normally have the potential to occur. That's a big difference. That doesn't sound like their sexual act is "open" at all, because their intention is to be closed off to pregnancy within their sexual act. I know this was long, but I hope it helps answer your questions. I believe that good answers are not always simple or short. Would be happy to continue the conversation. :)

[@Swagbastian]

So what I'm getting here is that you hate but it's still good?

[@albertosg471]

Swagbastian Precisely. In other words, it’s like eating a salad (or healthy food in general) it doesn’t taste great, some people might even hate salad. However, if you don’t want to become ill you have to eat it.