Why We Low Bar Squat | Starting Strength Radio #7

Rip goes in-depth and explains why the low bar squat uses the most muscle mass over the longest effective range of motion and is therefore is the preferred squat for getting strong.
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[@charlesfisher3983]

Rip didn't have the time to learn how to edit "Starting Strength Radio" into the video so he just painted it on the wall.

[@nastrimarcello]

Lol

[@Hanuman_]

I didn't realise till ur comment xD

[@murozman]

Lmao

[@haczabim]

'fucking a'

[@stevesshawl7977]

😂

[@SidOwsley]

Pointing my toes out made a huge difference in my squat. I've had the "pleasure" of experiencing that groin injury Mr. Rippetoe mentioned and believe me you don't want to experience that. Pointing my toes out also helped a lot with getting rid of the knee pain. Thank you, Mr. Rippeptoe!

[@TheNorthy]

Adding a timestamp: 47:23

[@MrTrenttness]

This has been really enjoyable. Listening to a professional with decades of experience describe at length, the reasoning why his understanding is where it is, about a very particular topic.Thanks Rip!

[@eclipsez0r]

But they cover this in 1 small segment of 1 class at university not lol

[@DrCastanet]

I went to Rip's seminar in Texas. It was well worth it. He's making a great contribution to weight training, and the mechanical analysis of the various lifts is invaluable.

[@dragonchr15]

So did i. I was not a low bar squat fan until i went to the seminar and had rip and his coaches critique my form, i am a convert. The low bar squat has also helped my running.

[@BryonLape]

I went to the Self-Sufficient Lifter seminar last August. Well worth it.

[@panos_is_sleepy6096]

@@dragonchr15 How is that? I am studying the sector of personal training and I'm doing a project on the low bar squat. Last week we had someone present theirs which was about a Crossfit episode on Starting Strength Radio. They said that Mark claimed that someone who lifts and also runs is a better runner than someone who doesn't lift or something along those lines. I would appreciate it if you could explain to me (in simple words, I don't want to take too much of your time) how the low bar squat helped with your running :)

[@eclipsez0r]

@@panos_is_sleepy6096 Running sucks

[@jeffriggins9106]

@@eclipsez0r got em

[@qwertybase]

Never been really able to Squat, until learning how to low bar Squat. Big difference 👍 Thank You for your expertise 💪

[@fsmoura]

Hwen I beat off to this, hwat grip should I use? Low, or high?

[@Fortress333]

For general pleasure, use a medium grip. When competing, pause at the bottom. Drink a gallon of protein reinforced with zinc each day.

[@borgusmaximus]

2 inches inside the nuurl, hook grip ohnly. Invoohlve your thuumb.

[@Jason-bg7jc]

Straps or nah?

[@icywolf9312]

Utilize a hook grip to maximize the grip.

[@murozman]

@Real Fast English Lmao 😂😂😂

[@edmulhearn8713]

Thank you Mr Rippetoe for your guidance regarding proper form while squatting. I am increasing resistance at a rate of 5lbs per week. Recently I have been getting warning sensations from my knees. After watching and listening to your advice earlier today I went to the gym, added my 5lbs and kept my knees angled out. My knees followed the angle of my feet on the way down and up. There is no doubt in my mind (and my knees) that you saved me a load of pain. Thanks again!!

[@blickluke]

I find wearing a flat shoe with wide toebox, and being mindful of pushing my big to metatarsal into the ground and cresting a strong arch in my foot whilst also doing what you just said, fixes that issue 100%

[@smashedguitarist]

I went to Rip's gym late one night and caught him doing barbell curls. That is the secret to his true strength

[@ericlarkins]

Rofl!!!

[@Cube_Ernator1077]

Arm curls help in the power clean, or didn't you know that?

[@gsquared2394]

Your arms SHOULD contribute very little in the clean, arm pulls are inefficient

[@caesinpoint]

"arm drahv"

[@lamrof]

I saw a video here in KZbin called "How to Squat Properly: Anatomical Analysis". Makes everything clear to watch that first and then listen to this explanation in this video.

[@AngelPuntero]

This is the episode we have been waiting for since #1

[@harry554]

Toes out, look down, low bar, .5-1.5inch below parallel. Great podcast and explanation on how to properly squat

[@iamesko]

Thanks for your time, great information. Have been low-bar squatting for years because of your book. Power Cleans are truth.

[@jedi77palmer]

I enjoy looking at the wall behind Rip

[@philliplockhart5853]

WingChun newbie Wilson Fisk

[@jedi77palmer]

@@philliplockhart5853 ........ you've lost me.

[@philliplockhart5853]

WingChun newbie It's the same wall Wilson Fisk stares at all the time from Netflix's Daredevil.

[@jedi77palmer]

gotcha!

[@jedi77palmer]

Rip should shave his head

[@ManuelVCano]

I front squat because I want to get better at front squats. Therefore it benefits me. My opinion doesn't mean anything but there it is. I'll add that I love the starting strength literature.

[@roywrather1201]

why? not smartass question. I just dont know.

[@copeenthuisiast5453]

@@roywrather1201 he might be an olympic lifter. Or maybe just prefers front squats

[@eclipsez0r]

You do what's right, not what you want to do 🙃

[@rero360]

Been working out semi regularly for the last five years with a year and half break when my son was born. I have a jacked up lower back, compression fractured vertebrae, bulging discs and arthritis (20 years combat arms) doing high bar squat I only ever got up to 235. Did low bar squat for the first time tonight and did 5x5 at 175 and it felt really good, need to keep focus on keeping my elbows up and back but overall liked it a lot more than high bar.

[@eclipsez0r]

That's not the program 🥲

[@TheJanno56]

Didn't know there is so much to talk about regarding squatting. Really good stuff, thanks for that!

[@WeightedCali]

41:12 "If you're driving, don't do this" - amazing humor as always 😂

[@DrCastanet]

Looking down was an ingenious insight by Rip. If you look forward, your visual target, or spine, will move during the movement. And either of those, will provide a disorienting input to balance. Go Rip.

[@grahamfraser1798]

Jo e codu

[@thefox1703]

This is an outstanding lecture on the mechanics of the squat!

[@dard4642]

I found the internal and external rotation of his upper arm to very humerus.

[@johntrains1317]

slow clap

[@panos_is_sleepy6096]

brilliant, just brilliant

[@jonnewbury3482]

That’s why it’s called the funny bone, it’s connected to the humerus.

[@BrianMoody-s3f]

😂

[@theotherJohn81]

Very cool. I will have to practice low bar squats. Thank you for the education.

[@robdixson196]

Speaking of comfort, low bar is super comfortable...compared to having my lanky self falling over backwards attempting a high bar squat.

[@josearamirez4494]

That shirt!!! Bill Starr!!!💪

[@griffdog141]

BEAUTIFUL DEPTH

[@AnthonyAcello]

When I low bar squat (all the time now) my adductors get the 'most' sore. And my heels are shoulder width with toes out 30%.

[@andremoreiragraca]

me too, but I'm a skinny fucker, so there's that

[@filipolsson5691]

@Kiln Strength he meens degres

[@books-4-bums255]

Less weight and twice a week

[@BigUriel]

Greg Nuckols has a great article on this. The adductors are actually prime movers in a deep squat, at the limit of hip flexion the glutes are in a weak position to produce hip extension torque, and the hamstrings are both too short to contribute meaningfully and their contraction would only make the quads' job harder (which are also struggling the most at full depth). This leaves the adductors to do most of the hip extension out of the hole, the glutes only take over after about 90 degrees (and the hamstrings never contribute much in a squat at all).

[@balasaravanan500]

This lecture needs to be trending right now. Much more love for Rip 🎉

[@XanderYTV]

As a 6'2 individual I tried high bar squat so many times it was sickening. I could never get strong on it. After a full year of lifting my squat max was 205. Now that I switched to low-bar it finally feels like a "fair" exercise.

[@haczabim]

35:54 Gotta love this man

[@ggrthemostgodless8713]

The first ten minutes of this is pure gold... I have tried over and over and over to explain in many different ways these simple concepts and how they interrelate to each other to the "trainer" at my gym and he never gets it, like most trainers have a lower IQ than average or something. I heard this trainer LAST WEEK telling a young kid of about 17, that it was NOT good to add weight to the bar, and that it wouldn't feel good anyhow, and for what anyway, does he want to be sore or hurt his back... some two days later he was trying to sell him this "especial protein that was better than other proteins", and some other pills he sells to this kids, because as much as he tries to tell them that my 405 to 455 pounds of weight on the bar is NOT good for them, as he looks directly at me and tries like hell to make me look like I am the one who doesn't know what I'm doing, these kids still WANT TO lift heavy and get big and muscular, but he tells them they can accomplish that with his "especial" protein and pills. He actually told one of the kids to start or he should taking shots of testosterone if he ever wanted to grow, which he would sell to him of course... that shit pisses me so much it takes all my will to not interfere, because this asshole is married to the owner sister and when I tried to tell him low key, he said just concentrate on YOUR thing and let him train the rest, like this asshole trainer has them hypnotised or something, he can do no wrong. I wonder what else I can do but...

[@DanteLikesRock]

Damn

[@SXLLXNBXE]

what.the.fuck. im glad i dont go to public gyms

[@ggrthemostgodless8713]

@@SXLLXNBXE Oh my man, that's not the half of it of what I've seen and heard these trainers do and say to TEENAGERS. If anyone of these kids challenges him, he starts to isolate him from the other kids and mocking him and all that, that shit doesn't work with me of course, but with kids it does... the owner must know this is going on, so wither he gets a cut of it or something. Hell, the trainer or "coach" as he likes them to call him, still tells them NOT to go all the way down of they will fuck their knees up... I still don't get why these kids admire him so much or why they follow him so much, I mean, they see the EVIDENCE of the weights on the bar, so WTF... Good luck.

[@sunnygirl9691]

You sound like a f-ing coward. You can deal with this problem.

[@Pizmagic]

Saw in your video where u said "set ur back" before squat.. could you make videos on this what u mean. Maybe how fix a vulgas on one side. My left stable .. pain on right back and hip.. need help Rip!! Plzz

[@andrewcain6518]

Sincere question: how are the benefits of low bar squat different than a deadlift? The kinetic chain looks really similar.

[@sunnygirl9691]

Not really. Deadlifts = hip hinge & hamstrings. As Rip pointed out the hamstrings are more isometric than the squat. All the same parts are present but to different degrees AND deadlifts will also engage more upper body to stabilize the bar as well. Do them properly and feel all this for yourself. 😉

[@firegate6316]

One must also consider the axial loading that comes with placing the weight/barbell ON your back as opposed to picking it up from the floor. Squats and Deadlifts are like Peanut Butter and Jelly. They compliment each other very well; Use both and gain the benefits of both.

[@powskier]

Agree that front squats aren't needed at all except for Olympic lifters like you said. But you can do high bar squats IF you use a a safety bar because the shape of the bar moves the center of gravity forward.

[@joshgreen1562]

Hi Rip, when I squat I'm doing low back and elbows, so I low bar squat. Thanks!

[@jakehahn2457]

This much info for free is incredible 👍🏼

[@ethanallenhawley1052]

The more retail-like gyms I have been to usually put a mirror on the wall behind their power racks (or more so behind everything they can). I hated having that mirror there because I (and most others) had a tendancy to look at my (their) reflection while squatting. It isnt quite looking at the ceiling with your eyes rolled back in your head, but for novice lifters learning to squat, getting rid of the damn mirrors would likely cause a large improvement on form. At the least it would get rid of bad que! Slight correction: these gyms also point the squat rack toward the wall. Just getting rid of the mirror doesn't solve the systemic issue Rip points out at around 37m: you need room to look at the floor. Both issues would be solved by turning the racks around.... Peace.

[@ggrthemostgodless8713]

Depending how far the mirror is, you can choose a point on the floor in the reflection to look at... but I agree with you, no mirrors would be fine with me too. Though what would all the BB people do for the three hours they are there flexing??? Or the ALREADY hot chicks looking at their asses and taking selfies!!

[@phineasmcsneed2169]

Even worse, many people rely on looking in the mirror to judge their squat depth, thus never learning to judge the depth by feel. If you aren't sure or want assurance, squatting to touch, not sit on, a box or blocks is much better, because it's relevant kinesthetic feedback. I've even had arguments with so-called trainers who advocate using the mirror in this way, despite the fact that no one anywhere in any sport of any type relies on looking at themselves in a mirror to perform movements properly.

[@ethanallenhawley1052]

@@phineasmcsneed2169 Completely agree. I noticed how different the lift was when I closed my eyes to squat. My form instantly changed. That was the kicker for me to realise I needed to pay more attention to the weight on my back than the my reflection (or the hot chick across the gym).

[@ethanallenhawley1052]

@@ggrthemostgodless8713 I'm lifted in smaller towns (15k to 100k population) and gyms are consequently smaller. Squat racks (even at my university) were shoved up against a wall. But ya, gotta workout the ego too!

[@phineasmcsneed2169]

@@ethanallenhawley1052 My hatred of commercial gyms led me to buy all my own stuff and workout at home. I have almost no room and have to set it up in my kitchen, but it's still better.

[@tpzlol]

I have to do Olympic squats for reasons. I'm quite sure my technique is good but its not good for my knee. I'd rather have skinny legs than a knee operation at 35, should I stop?

[@sumsar01]

If it hurts try lowering intensity or volume and see if that helps. Read the "Aches and Pains" article. Remember it's better to lower the load than to get hurt. You can't get stronger while injured. Getting strong takes many years and in the end, it doesn't matter how you squat if you do it to maximise your squat do what you can tolerate most of.

[@Lenin8419]

What’s an olympic squat? If you learned that from a crossfitter no wonder why you’re hurting your knees. Do you mean high bar or front squat? And lower the weight an make sure your tech is on point. Knee tracking over toes and such.

[@tpzlol]

@@Lenin8419 with Olympic i mean a high bar squat. I am doing weight that i can squat no more than 5 times but doing it regularly I get pain in my knee that takes weeks to fade

[@Maza675]

You could try taking up knitting instead

[@okid7552]

Get brute strength first with back squats and then if you want to focus yourself on olympic lifts change to front squats.

[@ruanoosthuizen6084]

Coach, but what about my hip flexors and abs?

[@germancardenas4139]

What about a long chapter on the romanian deadlift?

[@Richard-lu8ck]

I struggled for years trying to do high bar squats because that's what I was taught. And I remember squatting 275 once and it was an all out, knee wrapped, ball-busting lift.. Then I got turned on to the lower bar placement and suddenly I was repping that same 275 effortlessly. "But that's cheating!" they said... GTFO. It's still a barbell with weight on it, and I am in fact lifting it, am I not?

[@bultvidxxxix9973]

"cheating" is a dumb argument when you are not in a competition and have rules to follow. For all intents and purposes you could use a forklift to lift the weight. As long as you are the one pulling the lever, you are lifting it. Otherwise you'd had a get-out-of-jail card ("I didn't kill that person, the gun did"). The question should be if what you are doing achieves the goal you have. Meaning train the target muscle effectively with the lowest injury risk. Some people say the low bar squat has a higher injury risk. In fact they say that in general you should use the lowest weight possible, because a higher weight always comes with higher injury risks. I have no idea if that's true though.

[@dominique9898]

@@bultvidxxxix9973it is true if your form sucks and/or your aren’t strong enough to lift the load

[@zemm9003]

You are weak. Cheating the weight up is easy. Go back to squatting properly.

[@vukpayn8711]

this is perfect for falling asleep

[@mianahmad12]

Thank you RIP. Your are the best. Great video. Most logical explanation for the reasons and advantages of low bar squat.

[@SaniBravo]

When we squat we’re not Doing... Quads... We are... Squatting lol

[@SaniBravo]

False my quads have gotten way larger and I’ve added almost 100 pounds to my squat max since making this comment.

[@SaniBravo]

Ze TheGame Already did... Cut 10 pounds I’m %13 body fat with abs...

[@TheMrBlazeR64]

@@SaniBravo i have only ever low bar squatted, my cant fit any of my pants of when i used to be skinny, and i had stick like legs

[@Ashley-Norman]

@Ze TheGame you are a moron if you think a 500lb squat won't involve your quads or add muscle mass to them

[@moikanos11]

@Ze TheGame There's a difference between NOT growing your quads, and growing your quads OPTIMALLY. We don't do quads, we squat and our quads get bigger as a side effect. If you wanna "do quads" go watch Israetel's videos. That guy focuses on hypertrophy, Rip doesn't.

[@bevanmottram20]

Master class 🙏🏻

[@prosenjitization]

Hello Rip...are you sure Gluteus medius and minimus too does hip external rotation because I have learned that it does internal rotation.Please explain.

[@mirodaros]

This video is so dense to me! I´ve finally had some patience to pay atention and now I get it.. perhaps..

[@822508]

Thank you, Rip.

[@jberejik]

This is fantastic, simply fantastic.

[@JohnBradydoesstuff]

Ummmmm.... I love Rip and generally agree with everything he says. The low bar squat is absolutely king. But.... I find the front squat is awfully useful too. I hope he doesn't make me run laps after practice now....

[@danielmelvin4525]

I think when speaking on the program starting strength which is more or less designed for novices , he prefers the low bar squat. I’m sure after months of his training program , and getting your 5 basic lifts to the point where your increments in weight are very slow, you can start adding in more excercises designed to work more specific areas. This program Is for people that haven’t ever been dedicated lifters for long periods of time, or people who feel their previous programs have failed them to unlock their strength and grow for the first time. Later on after gaining strength and growth he seems fine with people doing excercises that target only one muscle and things like that. A lot of people seem to misinterpret that.

[@JohnBradydoesstuff]

@@danielmelvin4525 that’s a good point and I think you’re absolutely correct.

[@MtbEMS]

@@danielmelvin4525 low bar is what many powerlifters use right? I understand that helps with hypertrophy which is my goal, though as a newbie I'm worried that it might put too much stress on my weak lumbar. Correct my thinking if needed..

[@scottmoyer3854]

Great video! 10/10.

[@RIP5582]

Thanks Rip for pointing out that I am officially a 3%er. I feel special.

[@mchiral]

Great lecture!

[@BoeserWolf1977]

Fully agree with everything - when you look at the squat alone... But when you look at the complete training I would come to a different conclusion: When you are also deadlifting, in my opinion the overlapping is pretty high. In regard of a more complete development of strength I believe deadlift and highbar squatting offers a more differentiated training and so a better total strength development fo a general athlete. I feel the regeneration is better when you are not combining DL and LB squat. If you are training for Powerlifting the lowbar squat is most likely the better choice. Any thoughts on this?

[@phineasmcsneed2169]

I agree as a matter of theory. I do low bar and added front squats to my routine to address this. I think the SS model addresses the overlap by having low overall volume and very low DL volume: I think heavy DLs are sometimes as low as one workset per week.

[@Goriaas]

I only do front squats and DL and do just fine. Don't really NEED a backsquat unless I'm a powerlifter. For strength, muscle and other sports I don't see the need to include any backsquat variation honestly

[@mfid9339]

@@Goriaas i think maybe backsquats add more, look at how olympic athletes train, even for them they train backsquat for overall mass

[@Goriaas]

@@mfid9339 sure a better posterior chain activation(glues and hamstrings), less quads and much less abs. Sometimes that is preferrable. If one does not do deadlifts at all(and a lot of non strength athletes simply don't) I'd say the backsquat beats the front squat exactly because of posterior chain stimulation. But with DLs in the picture most people will be more balanced and evenly developed by doing fronts or at the very least high-bar

[@mfid9339]

@@Goriaas Once again, if that were try, why would literally ever olympic weightlifting coach train athletes using back squats? despite it not actually being used in the lift? Could be that the torso angle is closer to the clean and snatch then a front squat, but then again it seams a clean/ snatch deadlift is more suitable. So if back squats have no benefit, is every olympic weightlifter/ coach ever, simply wrong?

[@deepsea2141]

thanks Mr. Hip drahve

[@Jeff-nb8iy]

Rip I agree with the importance of Low Bar squatting. But what are some ways to increase your flexibility so you can get deep into a squat?

[@ioncasu1993]

(facepalm)

[@Jafmanz]

swapping the bar position literally just added 15kg to my squat at 3x5 reps. not a strength gain just an easier mechanic. This means I can now get stronger!

[@zemm9003]

It's called cheating.

[@Jafmanz]

@@zemm9003 Well you can call it cheating if you wish but I'm approaching 2x BW squat for 5. I'll be there by January

[@chrismckenzie898]

Beautifully put.

[@smahiz]

Can you comment on ankle mobility in the squat? I find it hard to get into the right position primarily because of this

[@pouihurmen]

Then you need to work on it. Back squatting (especially low bar) without adequate mobility is a recipe for injury.

[@evanmccarthy8766]

Please open a Starting Strength gym in Evansville Indiana.

[@nathanmcmullen1527]

If youve ever sprained your neck from high bar you know why low bar squat is better

[@boogerz2000]

Based on everything he talked about, I've come to the conclusion that I naturally prefer a position that is between high bar and low bar squatting and that the moment arm of the weight is equally distant from both my hips and knees.

[@morotetsuke]

I pick things up and put them down.

[@connorw360]

I am currently doing 5 sets of 5 program. Monday bench, squat, (3x5 barbell row) Wednesday (Deadlift 3x5) shoulder press 5x5, (Weighted Pullups 3x5) Friday - same as Monday I want to introduce powercleans, where would be the best time to do them??

[@connorw360]

Also where can I ask rip a question

[@danm1063]

Not sure what you mean... Why not follow the program then?...

[@connorw360]

@@danm1063 I've not read rips program, doing the 5by5 program but was just wondering where is best to do powercleans?

[@filipposlioukas]

I would say get rid of barbell rows and make you pull ups to chin ups so you still get some bicep work

[@connorw360]

@@filipposlioukas cool thanks. What I was thinking was Monday - Bench, Squat, Power clean, Lying Tricep extension. Wednesday - Deadlift, Shoulder Press, Chin ups, Abs. Friday - Bench, Squat, Barbell Row, Close grip bench, Weighted Dips.

[@dutch4066]

Rip talking about tall lifters as well in this vid?

[@jamescicalese4737]

The excitement with which he said, "take a deeper dive into the squat." I'm still shaking with emotion.

[@jabberwock14]

Saw an ad for Tom Brady and functional fitness for this video. Haha.

[@DrCastanet]

I don't think it's because we want a long moment arm. That would make a high-bar squat desirable, although that would be impractical. I think the reason is that we want the shortest moment arm, and that permits the greatest weight to be lifted.

[@DrCastanet]

Actually, since high bar squats demand a more upright posture, I may be wrong about the lever arm length.

[@aba192]

@@ajasen A well-executed GM actually keeps the bar path fairly linear not unlike a squat.

[@metalmikebot]

I'd refer anyone listening to this podcast to Greg Nuckols' two-part series on high-bar vs low-bar squats on his website Stronger by Science, in which he rather thoroughly debunks the claim that the low bar squat uses more muscle mass and/or uses more of the 'posterior chain'. The low-bar squat is fine, but it doesn't really matter if you squat high or low bar unless your goal is to compete as a powerlifter-in which the leverage advantage of the low bar squat will allow you to lift a little more weight.

[@ageofreason5256]

Doesn't lifting heavier weight make you stronger? Isn't that the point of strength specific training?

[@atavax6094]

Agree. @Age of Reason - yes but if you read the article the same forces are applied to the hip and knee joints in high and low bar squats, the moment arms are just different making lowbar more efficient.

[@ryanfeeley2407]

@Matthew Cooper. This. There is a time component as well, so you pay for the efficiency with more time under tension. But you might not want that. To simplify a bit, once the muscle environment gets acidic, your fast twist fibers shut down and the added stimulus / duration of tension of the low bar is borne preferentially by slow twist fibers. Depending on your sport, you may have good reason not to want this. But for a powerlifter, sure, take all the stimulus you can get.

[@ensnaredbyflesh1030]

Lowbar may not necessarily work more muscles, but it sure allows them to do their job better. Simply a more natural way for the body to move. Besides, tons of people will squat highbar, then lean their torso forward when the weights get heavy, effectively turning it into lowbar except without the proper balance between the bar and their feet. If that's going to happen then they might as well squat lowbar imo.

[@dragonchr15]

The crux of the disagreement seems to be whether the increased weight lifted is due to more more muscle being used or the leverage benefit.

[@fainakleitman6856]

Trying low squat every day 😂. The bar keeps on sliding either way... ending up squating high bar . Will continue trying😊

[@rigohook1160]

I wish i had known all of this when i was young.

[@IncredibleMet]

You can always learn it now. You don’t have to stay ignorant forever. You can choose to, though...

[@rigohook1160]

@@IncredibleMet , i have done. I read the blue book and the grey book and consider myself an intermediate lifter now, since doing this four years now. But i am 51, i do this just to stay strong and healthy. When i was a teenager, and a boxer back then, boxing coaches always advised heavily against this type of strength training. Makes you slow, muscle bound, you heared all that shit. And, of course, being a young boy knowing shit, i believed them. That's what i mean when i say i wish i had known this when i was young. Now, at my age, i'm not going in the ring anymore....

[@leatherface9377]

Rigo Hook Good thing cause you might have to box me.

[@SPDB5263]

Usually, Eazy things doesn't mean strong..I think quarter is best way for people who like comfortable squat

[@championchuck777]

Class is in session. 📝

[@AOL0321]

Mark I am 57 years old, about 5’8” and weigh about 170-175 pounds, with a BMI of 25.3% and a body fat percentage of 18-19%, based on my TANITA scan measurements. I have bilateral hip replacements and wanted to know if there was another exercise I could do as a replacement instead of the squat? I have a safety squat bar and besides despising the squat movement, I do feel a slight tugging and tearing sensation in the groin when I do squats.

[@platonicguardian6923]

Rip: We're here to get strong, low bar squat. Dr. Mike Israetel: Low bar squats allow you to lift more weight, but are terrible for hypertrophy. If you want to grow your quads, high bar squat. Tom Platz "The Quad Father": Mike is right. Who cares if you lift less weight. Squat deep and make the quads do all the work. Me: Argument over.

[@RockyP-xw8rd]

Tom Platz legs are not a result of high bar vs low bar. It’s once in a generation genetics, hard work, and drugs. These debates are fairly asinine. There are professional bodybuilders with world class legs (read: better than yours or mine or “Dr” Mike’s) who don’t squat at all. Why? Genetics and drugs. Do what you prefer and what works for you.

[@zemm9003]

​@@RockyP-xw8rd starting strength students/trainers have decent squats with tiny legs. Even rip himself has tiny legs for the amount he used to squat. Ironically SS data is the absolute proof that low bar sucks for quad development.

[@RockyP-xw8rd]

@ ​​⁠I think what you’re seeing is that SS clients are average people with average or below average genetics. My legs and back blew up on the SS program and I only got up to 465 for 3 sets of 5. My legs were big before I started squatting so the program just agreed with me. But I do notice what you do with regard to SS folks and their legs. Keep in mind these are average joes NOT using steroids. All the guys touting high bar and all the other approaches / nonsense tend to be enhanced.

[@JohnnyRay920]

If I put the bar below the spine of the scapula, there is nothing there to support it. It just feels like it's going to slide down my back. Only my hands prevent it from doing so. If I put the bar directly above the spine of the scapula, there is a nice platform there to support it. The top of the scapula, cushioned by my traps, forms a nice, stable platform for the bar to sit. Why I can't find this low bar platform that Rip refers to, I don't know. I guess I'm lacking in rear delts.

[@Ardepark]

I think I may have a similar problem...Still working on stretching and gaining shoulder and chest flexibility so I can narrow the grip on the bar, because this is what pushes the upper back muscles up creating the support.

[@eclipsez0r]

Roll your wrists forward and make sure they are straight. Lift your elbows a bit. You should be able to pull the bar down into your back and not have it move at all

[@imhassane]

I’m switching to low bar squats

[@mishmohd]

I hate one muscle group a day routines so working as many muscles as possible in one session works for me. Not trying to be mr olympia just want to be healthy and fit for everyday life

[@MrJGBarrett]

Thank you Rip.

[@jabberwock14]

Can someone explain step by step why it is impossible to "Shear" the back with the low bar squat? I know it's not true but I I can't explain it to a non-lifter.

[@wyattchristiansen9089]

No one can benefit from a front squat? Exercise variation has no benefits? Someone who has pain with greater degrees of hip flexion can't benefit from front squatting instead of low bar squatting?

[@phineasmcsneed2169]

They don't go that far. Rip and SSCs will grudgingly allow people to do other squat variations after they have tortured themselves trying low bar for a certain amount of time and can't make them work, but they will keep emphasizing their inferiority.

[@pouihurmen]

I can’t believe he gets a pass for the shit he says

[@dragonchr15]

I took a SS seminar and they said once your novice strength gains are done, you do whatever you want. Front squats so serve no purpose unless you are training the Olympic lifts or it fits into your specific training goal....afyer your novice strength gains are finished.

[@phineasmcsneed2169]

@@dragonchr15 That's not the message being put out on the SS podcasts/vids - I've listened to all of them. Also not the message put out by the main non-Rip coaches: Barbell Logic. They routinely denigrate the front squat and even the high bar as significantly inferior, up to the highest levels of advanced training.

[@dereks.1930]

@@phineasmcsneed2169 that's funny. The front squat is listed under "useful assistance exercises" in Starting Strength 3rd edition. Noting that the front squat emphasizes the knees and the chest rather than the hips and back.

[@JohnnyRay920]

As I'm struggling on the 4th and 5th reps, when I'm using hip drive to push up out of the bottom of the squat, the bar along with my upper back tend to want to stay in the down position. How do I avoid that? As the weight is increasing each workout, it's getting harder and harder to stop this from happening.

[@summondominion]

You literally don't make any sense....the weight is increasing but you can't get it on the 4th and 5th rep...well than stop increasing the weight until the 4th snd 5th rep are easy...dumbass

[@Beyondogma]

❤ Starting Strength

[@senselessnothing]

how do you do mechanics without calculus, conceptual stuff?

[@xyzct]

" ... the ... _core_ ..." That killed me.

[@filippovincenti]

very good

[@pierregibran1]

Love what you do RIP, BUT, saying that a hamstring that is NOT sore is a proof that it works isometric is false. 22.35

[@djslakor]

Yet if you watch the world classic powerlifting championships, you'll see all different forms of back angle, eye gaze, grip width, knee angles, etc., yet these guys are the strongest in the world at squat for their bodyweight despite not using "the most muscle mass" of the SS technique. Maybe different techniques work better for different people?

[@zeromodulus1679]

you're talking about subtle nuances of 2 primary squat types.

[@joshl8646]

" 'look up to go up' is not an analysis. It's a high school football coach expression." Omg I can't stop laughing at this.

[@mfid9339]

its a cue which will work for the majority of the population

[@djscottybez]

It injures the majority of the population...

[@bubbag8895]

i get it .. low bar builds more overall muscle. ive switched to highbar lately though because it feels like it helps with my overall mobility

[@SuperOllie8]

bubba g why do you need to be mobile?

[@TraderRick612]

Thunda choc why do you breath?

[@anbs1682]

Beautiful depth. Beautiful depth. Lol 😂

[@lazur1]

Funny thing: Even Arthur Jones & Ken Hutchins consider the squat to be the single greatest exercise, (in spite of their reasons for *not* squatting:^).

[@philippejswiecki]

biceps-femoris attaches to fibula but this is a trivial distinction

[@bisonhawk1]

Weyland Yutani Corp shirt, no sports!!!! Is Rippetoe a nerd????? I never would have guessed!!!

[@jms0313]

Yeah listen to the Sci Fi podcast

[@scottgilmour749]

The High bar squat is poetry in motion. Watch a Grt Olympic lifter at work and it's like watching an artist. Over time, the same starting strength rules apply to this lift, it's just ur over all lift in time, may be less. But ur muscles still have to adapt, get stronger and the same health benifits apply. And, at the end of the day, u shall have poetry and beauty, not just brawn abs brawl.

[@BBendiit]

Learning a lot from these videos, cheers!

[@roepeeweeplayhouse2490]

I would like to see mark teach Tom Platz to low bar. Come on Tom! Those high bars will never make ya strong😂

[@blickluke]

95th percentile.

[@ggrthemostgodless8713]

Seems like a trainer's goal in all commercial gyms is to make sure you will ALWAYS need them, so you never learn a thing about anything from them, and the "workouts" they give are pure shit, with bad technique to boot.

[@andrealecismusic4328]

I want that awesome Tshirt !!!

[@michaelsasin7407]

Your discussions on the low bar squat never mention the leverage advantage created by the lower bar position. So while a more horizontal back angle creates a longer moment arm on the back, the lower bar position (usually about 2" to 3") shortens that moment arm. So the question is, how much have you really lengthened the moment arm as compared to a high bar squat? The lower bar position shortens the moment arm on the quads. So even if you can use more weight with a low bar, the work required of the quads is about the same as would be required in a high bar, sometimes even less depending on the lifter's proportions. How much more weight can be lifted low bar vs. high bar? This obviously varies. It can be as high as 15% more for an experienced powerlifter. The usual rule of thumb is 5-10%. A novice might be able to lift only 2.5% more. So if we have a novice lifter whose high bar squat is 200 lbs. and we switch him to low bar, we're looking at an increase of 5 to 10 lbs., maybe 20 lbs. if he is lucky. Given the leverage advantage offered by the low bar and less force required from the quads, how much stronger will a person really get by switching to low bar? In logic the burden of proof is on the person making the claim, and this discussion did not conclusive prove that a low bar squat will allow a person to get significantly stronger as compared to a high bar. If someone training for general strength prefers low bar because it feels better or they like the fact that they can lift more weight that way, hey, have it, Hoss, but they would be fooling themselves if they think they will get significantly stronger with the low bar.

[@startingstrength]

Once again, Mike. You're about 85% wrong. The full "discussion" is in the book. Check it out. Email us and we'll mail you one.

[@michaelsasin7407]

@@startingstrength That is very generous of you. I know that I may come off like a "troll" sometimes and given the fact that you are willing to engage in discussion I apologize for that. But the above questions about the leverage issues are real and sincere questions I have about the low bar squat.

[@dfghrthtjytrjtfjgnvb]

I am a lifter who happens to be an engineer with a passion for physics. I like the way you are earnestly engaging in this comment compared to some others on this page. I haven't read any of your other comments, so I'm only going on what you wrote right here. Your analysis (facts, reasoning and conclusion) have enough wrong material mixed in that your whole analysis veers pretty far off from the physically correct model. I don't have the time (I honestly don't) to engage point-by-point, but if you are in fact genuinely interested in the mechanics, then hopefully the following ramblings will serve as food for thought: Based on your current (mis-)understanding, I think it would be more helpful if you focus on the concept of "moment on the joint", rather than on moment arm. Moment arm is ultimately an ancillary factor used in calculating the moment force. The moment at the hip is calculated using the horizontal distance between the hip and the bar. So the moment arms -- with respect to the hip -- are equal along both the back the thighs. The more moment on the knee joint, the more force has to be produced by the knee extensors to successfully lift the weight. Likewise, the more moment on the hips, the more force has to be produced by the hip extensors to lift the weight. Moment (i.e. moment force) is ultimately the fundamental concept at work -- *moment arm* on the contrary is partly used as a visual aid and teaching tool, one which evidently doesn't work well for everybody all the time. Also remember, since in strength training we are discussing lifting the heaviest weights possible, you always need to assume the system is in balance over the mid-foot. Thus your initial comment about the lower bar position lengthening/shortening the moment arm "on the back" (i.e. horizontally between the hips and the bar) is confused and incorrect, especially once you remember the system must remain in balance. The hip extensors include some of the largest muscles in the body. If you can manage to load them -- truly load them in proportion to their anatomical function -- in a progressive manner, you will witness what your body is really capable in terms of systemic metabolic/hormonal response to stress. In short, you will become a beast, as far as maximizing your own personal genetic potential. Nature gave you a sports car that can go 200 mph, and life is short, so hit that gas pedal already! Why settle for 170 or 180 mph unless you really have to? That's the mentality behind low-bar squatting, for anyone that physically can. As an observer of the Starting Strength community for about 8 years, I have to say there is no dogma about avoiding high-bar for those who really need it. The squat is the most physically productive component of strength training, and the low-bar squat is the most physically productive squat. This is cool.

[@Venezuelangel]

@@dfghrthtjytrjtfjgnvb Fucking hell I love Rip's comment section.

[@andremoreiragraca]

@@dfghrthtjytrjtfjgnvb dude, that was cool

[@ggrthemostgodless8713]

14:00 Long moment arm or shorter moment arm?... sooooo if we want a LONG moment arm as he seems to want, why not put the bar HIGHER to have a longer moment arm if that is important?? I think many people get confused about this, about What a "moment" is, and how it is applied or how it works... because in this segment he keeps saying that we WANT a LONG moment arm, and he shows the drawing of what he means by it, which is the distance between the bar and the hips... and if we WANT a longer moment arm we logically wold put the bar higher, which is NOT what we want, as that makes us lift less weight... so this part is confusing.

[@WilliamSmith-lu1hi]

I think that the idea is that you want a long moment arm but you also want the bar over the midfoot. The low-bar position, as far as I can tell, allows the bent over position that uses more hip musculature while keeping the moment arm long. Once the bar is higher on the back, the spine automatically becomes more vertical to maintain balance, which removes the hamstrings from the movement. So that seems to be the rationale.

[@Ondrej.U]

It's HORIZONTAL distance between bar and the hips. High-bar squats have shorter moment arm, because your back are more vertical and bar is more above the hips. Moment arm is perpendicular to force direction (which is down in this case - gravity).

[@notruescotsman44]

If the highbar position is used when low bar squat technique is used... you fall forward an die. Low bar position allows you to lean further back while keeping the bar over the feet.

[@ggrthemostgodless8713]

@@Ondrej.U So moment arm is the HORIZONTAL distance between bar and hips.... but at the same time he says don't bend over TOO much... all these details are nothing compared to actually doing heavy squats, a few centimetres lower or higher if you're lifting 500 pounds, so what difference can it make long term. I try them both positions, and the key seems to be the bar has to remain mid-foot for good balance, if its too high you feel it in your spine's neck bones, and if it's too low it tends to want to slide down, if you feel the weight on your toes digging in you know you bent the back too much, hopefully that is not on the heaviest squat of the day!! ---LOL As some of the best trainers say, including Rip here, you have to always be working on technique and technique is NEVER perfect. The fact that people have different morphologies (body shapes and extremities' lengths), doesn't lend much help to the idea that there is but ONE perfect position for everyone.

[@thebarbelllifestyle1478]

A moment arm is a *horizontal* distance between the fulcrum and the moment force (the loaded bar). You're thinking of the actual distance along the back segment from hip joint to the bar's place on the back, which is not the same thing. The back segment may be a little shorter in the low bar than the high bar but because the bar is lower on the back, the lifter must be bent over more, which creates a horizontal displacement (aka a moment arm) between the bar and the hip joint that's significantly greater than the moment arm between the hip joint and the bar in the high bar squat. Because of the vertical back angle in the high bar squat, the greater moment arm is on the knee joint instead, which is not as well equipped to handle heavier weights as the hip joint. However, this doesn't mean heavy weights can't be lifter with the high and squat - that would be a beyond ludicrous assertion. What it means it that having the long moment arm between the bar and the hips allows the hip extensions to be forced to produce maximal force, which us transferred up the erector bellies to the bar (in addition to the knee extenders with the smaller moment arm between the bar and the knee joints), thus allowing the best recruitment of the strong posterior chain muscles, in addition to the use of the quads. Although, a lifter is free to lift however he wants. It's your training, and training is meant to b enjoyable. For Rips purposes, the idea is to get stronger, which is to say, to get you to produce the most amount of force possible via lifting the most amount of weight possible via using the most amount of muscle possible over the greatest effective ROM. Hope that helps.

[@ultramegadavidbowie6314]

Hwhy?