Why We Need a Deer Fence - Rewilding Lettoch

An exploration of why we have had to install a deer fence at Rewilding Lettoch.
Whilst deer numbers are too high right across Scotland (NatureScot) we have to state that this film in no way wants us to demonise the deer. It's not their fault. If we are to meet our climate change and biodiversity targets then we must grasp the deer problem humanely but effectively.
With thanks to Ron Greer (Conservationist), Julia Duncan (Rewilding Consultant), Miles Goodman (Wester Tullochcurran), Geoff Mosely (Research), Gregor Thexton (Your Forst - Deer Fence Installation).
Acknowledging the use of Channel 4 News KZbin footage of grouse moor burning, and Animal Aid KZbin footage of grouse shooting. And the Dead Wolf image from Wikicommons.
And with thanks to NatureScot and the Nature restoration Fund for funding Rewilding Lettoch.
#naturescot
#naturerestorationfund
#rewilding
#rewildingbritain
#rongreer
#rewildinglettoch
#lettochfilms

[@philiptaylor7902]

What a great video, this deserves to be widely seen.

[@iainmaclean612]

Money would be better spent on reducing deer numbers! Everyone knows it, nothing is ever done about it. It's a national shame.

[@davidsivills3599]

Bring back the Lynx

[@fionamcphail2797]

Absolutely ...just makes me so angry ! The vast areas of Scotland being used so badly

[@dynamoterror7077]

Unfortunately, humans have a tendency to either do not enough or way too much in terms of herbivore control. Better to distribute livestock guardian dogs to farmers, then unleash the wolves and leopards and lynx.

[@Will-kt5jk]

@@dynamoterror7077have leopards ever been UK native? If not, introducing something the size of a leopard into the UK may mean the local fauna won’t cope/could collapse. At least with the lynx, there’s evidence they’ve been native and the prey populations would likely balance out.

[@dynamoterror7077]

@@Will-kt5jk Leopards and a wide range of other big cats have cycled in and out of the UK for as long as cats have been a thing, with leopards themselves living throughout Europe until the end of the Pleistocene. At this point, the ecology of the UK is so demolished and thoroughly wrecked that any additional biodiversity, especially predators, would be overwhelmingly beneficial. The local faunal collapse happened back in the Bronze Age and it’s only gotten worse. Plus, dna has thrice confirmed presence of at least one leopard in three distinct parts of the UK in the past couple of years, so the rewilding has already sort of started.

[@Pam501]

Another thoughtful presentation - thanks!

[@lettochfilms]

Well thank you for all the views so far and all the comments. I have to admit I was a bit worried about posting this. It's a controversial but important topic to explore. It touches on peoples beliefs and lives and passions. Being fairly new to rewilding I have been blown away by the impact our deer fence has had on our small site. We planted about 500 trees but are now wondering why we bothered as they're appearing by themselves. What is interesting to note though is not everywhere. In places where the grass is thick and well established the trees are getting hold. Where the grass is thinner the silver birch (& others) are rapidly moving in. This to me suggests we need grazing at a certain level to churn up the ground, but not enough to decimate all the new tree growth. For us this probably means cattle once a year for a week or two. On a landscape scale this would just mean reducing the overall population of grazers to sustainable levels, and then we wouldn't need these expensive and rather irritating deer fences everywhere. The other interesting and perhaps overlooked aspect of all of this, as a very good friend of mine (PP - you know who you are) keeps reminding me is that we need to consider the welfare of the deer. Not just in culling and if and how to cull, but also in their sheer numbers. At the levels we have now it's not great to be a deer. There's little shelter and even less to eat. Lower numbers of deer in mixed and open woodland would make for much healthier and happier deer and leave room for the rich biodiversity that comes with more trees and shrubs. This is as much an animal welfare issue, for the deer we have, never mind for the wildlife we don't have because of the over grazing. Perhaps we might explore all of this in more detail in subsequent videos. But for now, thank you for watching. And no harm, if you're in the UK, of making sure your MSP/MP is aware of the issues. All the best.

[@KelpandFern]

Thanks for sharing the film and the time it took to put it together! Great to hear about your observations in your comment too, there is a big push for "regenerative ag" or "grazing cattle" to help with rewilding but as you've said exactly, any more than a few days or week and the new tree growth is gone. I've followed and documented Feral Goats in Wales for the past four years and now filming and observing a group of ponies on the Wales Coast Path in Pembrokeshire and they have had a small spit of land to "manage" and "improve" biodiversity. The problem is they've now been there for over a month and already the ground is become bare, a few days or a week would have sufficed for young trees to survive. It would be great to have a bigger picture of the grazing done on lands in Scotland and the UK and talk about the elephant in the room, sheep, they outnumber deer 10 to 1, but they are never ever mentioned in rewilding topics and even more bizarrely when overgrazing is mentioned, yet they are the primary issue here.

[@purplemonkeyelephant]

Great video. When nature is out of balance we end up like this

[@martyminus90]

You can have some wolf from us. Love from Norway

[@IanPhillipsWildlife]

Can we have some in London please!!

[@RogerHyam]

Wonderful video. Keep 'em coming.

[@Mr.Skeptic-kp3jq]

Wonderful ! Thank you very much !

[@Sandsrodrick]

It’s a complex matter and undoubtedly the deer numbers need to be reduced. Recommended reading is James Fenton’s book of Landscape Change in the Highlands. Much of the upland peat bogs probably haven’t been wooded for thousands of years and that isn’t due to browsing by deer. It might just be that much of the highlands where we find deep peat are naturally unwooded open landscapes. This video is largely about lower slopes, mineral soils and shallow dry peat where woodlands can be regenerated, preferably without fences.

[@sophiareygrace6656]

I wish the people of Scotland know the importance of wolves

[@DanielRichards-bb5vt]

not enough space for wolves

[@GamertronicHD]

​@@DanielRichards-bb5vt Lol there's even space in Germany which clearly is denslier populated than scotland

[@clownguy]

@@DanielRichards-bb5vt Clueless.

[@Harveywhite209]

lol…yeah, there’s not enough space for wolves because the space is so jammed full of the things they eat! 🤣

[@chris_cracknell]

That was my first thought too.

[@KelpandFern]

We need to sort the 7 million sheep problem Scotland has first. With deer being only 10% of what the sheep numbers are and with huge rewilding efforts where the sheep currently are, the deer are not a problem.

[@joshhoppring5051]

Yeah we no longer have a wool industry so why all the sheep?

[@KelpandFern]

@@joshhoppring5051 they also make up less than 1% of our calories and they are never ever mentioned in the deer and rewilding plans and we wonder why we have problems with nature.

[@peterdillon2628]

Steve, You and Ron touched upon what we see during our lifetime is the norm for what should be present in the landscape. The moors of Scotland and Northern England are considered beautiful by many for their glory of heather when blooming. From that, it isn't too far a stretch to consider that that is the landscape state that requires protection. The "unknown" potential does not enter the mind of the unaware. What is sad, is that many of those who do understand allow the status quo to continue and in many cases actively hinder the return of an enviroment that is diverse and self sustaining.

[@0Jrock01]

Great film, I hope everyone votes for nature!

[@adamcarmichael4881]

Very interesting video. I’m fortunate enough to work for the Natural Resource Conservation Service (NRCS) here in the states. We have voluntary programs that encourage conservation programs on private lands that Address resource concerns. Other groups have programs like hunters for the hungry and Quality deer management programs. Some of our non government partners include Ducks unlimited, Grouse unlimited and others. At the end of the day we need to wisely manage resources for future generations.

[@raphlvlogs271]

spiny shrubs such as gorse can be instrumental to woodland regeneration since they can protect newly germinated trees from grazing

[@IanPhillipsWildlife]

Fantastic film guys, keep up the good work.

[@pi-signal]

Great Video

[@andrewyates775]

Brilliant film. Sad and inspiring. Sporting estates have so much to answer for, for the gratification of the privileged few.

[@ciaranpagefilms]

Fantastic video, I learned a lot, thanks!

[@threeriversforge1997]

Great film. And a perfect illustration of people not "tending their garden". I don't fault folks for not knowing what they don't know, so let's just get on with fixing the problem instead of crying over spilt milk. I would also point out that Scotland isn't alone in having destroyed their ecosystems. The first step is admitting you have a problem.... and that means you need to be brutally honest about what is actually causing the problem. If you have a burst water pipe, there's no sense in getting out the mop and bucket if you haven't first shut off the main valve to stop the flow of water. I bring that up because folks don't want to talk about "tending the garden" in any sense that might cause hurt feelings or get them called mean names. However, now is the time for that brutal honesty part I mentioned earlier. Scotland is a small place and for too long, the indigenous tribes of Scotland have turned their backs on the fact that they are actually the indigenous people of the land. As you open your borders and allow more and more foreigners in.... those people all need roads and houses and schools and whatever else people need. More people means more pollution, but also more pavement and other hard surfaces that cover over the local ecosystems. Guess what that means? Yeah, we need to be brutally honest and understand that there's only so much room. My brother just returned from Costa Rica and raved about how beautiful it was, and how hard the indigenous people of that nation worked to protect and preserve their ecosystems. And that includes things like making immigration really hard, precluding foreigners from buying property or opening businesses, etc. They put their nation, their people, first because they understand that they'd be overrun with "outsiders" if they didn't. Everyone wants to visit that tropical paradise, but it wouldn't be a tropical paradise for long if everyone who wanted to was moving there and paving over the place. In my area, we have what's called "Piedmont Sprawl". According to the studies, we've lost 40% of our open spaces in my lifetime, and are on track to lose another 30% in the next couple decades. That's open woods, farms, fields, meadows.... all gone. And it's completely changed not only the landscape, but the culture. 1-in-4 people are "non-native" now. All the traffic, pollution, congestion, aggravation, taxes, regulations.... everything's gone up, and not in a good way. Why? Because folks in the past forgot that they needed to "tend their garden" and that requires some brutal honesty.

[@sophiareygrace6656]

They should have re introduced natural predators!!

[@davidsivills3599]

Predators would do a better job,nature does a better job than any human.

[@DB-pm2vy]

Venison is an excellent meat. I’m surprised licences are not issued to those who can remove, use or sell it. Other countries manage it better than we do. Licences in Germany for wild boar etc. The Gillie/guides might be in charge/ supervise it. Maybe 200 culled a year. Experts would decide each year IDK.

[@CharlesYeo-qs6nb]

Scotland produces over 3,000 tonnes of venison per year from wild deer.

[@fionamcphail2797]

Other countries may not have the same approach as the monied estates of Scotland who use their land as a playground?

[@reijerlincoln]

Has there been a debete on reintroducing the wolve, as was done in Europe?

[@user-bp6qo8gw6w]

Don't forget that fire and grazing are very much part of the natural system.

[@rickymitchelmore9102]

Same on Dartmoor.

[@MrScalesie]

Very interesting video just one thing the central reservation is also a artifical area due to the deer not being able to graze there . I do understand its a small area

[@alexking1348]

Country sports, like deer stalking, benefit the rural economy hugely. Yes, it's a minority of people that partake in country sports, and they’re difficult to understand for those that haven’t seen, but the hotels the tourists stay in, restaurants they eat in, pubs they drink in estate workers it employs all revolve around money generated by country sports. Reduce deer numbers and remove grouse moors, and you'll have the highland clearances all over again. Landowners should be able to be use their land for their own economic benefit, as landowners do in England. This enables them to run a sustainable business, and provide local employment (which is in severe shortage). As per usual - it's city folk deciding how the countryside should look and operate, without giving thought to those that have to make a living there. Oh, and don't give me the ecotourism nonsense; Scotland is already beautiful, with large numbers of tourists that visit. But the bottom line is, they go to the more accessible areas of Scotland, like much of the cairngorms, and not to it's most remote corners. Also, bird watchers and walkers don't spend anyway near as much money as sporting parties do. It wouldn't sustain rural communities. I'm not saying I rule out rewilding full stop, I love the natural world, and if a landowner wants to do so, let them. But they should deer fence their entire property and not widespread cull animals with complete disregard to their hunting seasons (which are enforced for welfare reasons) to the point where it impacts the neighbouring estates deer populations. Obviously a wild countryside would be lovely, but please, spare a thought for the communities that live there. I would love to hear others thoughts after hearing this pov.

[@lettochfilms]

That's a very thoughtful piece of writing Alex, thank you. I couldn't agree more. Doing anything without the input and support of the rural community is not an attractive option. I guess it is true, if we are to believe our scientists, that those communities will be just as adversely impacted upon by nature depletion and climate change as those in the cities. This is a national and global challenge. A shared problem. And just changing things without consideration of the impacts to people and place is not a great look. As you say, been there, done that! And yet we do need to do something. Carrying on as we are is, it would seem, not working. Wouldn't it be a marvellous thing if we could get ecologists, conservationists and rural community representatives to work on the shared challenges and come up with co-created solutions which will help rural communities thrive just as much as we need nature to. I may be living in cloud cuckoo land but just putting it in the 'too difficult' box and doing nothing is not an attractive option , and probably won't end well for any of us. Talking, listening, thoughtful debate, sharing problems and ideas, and all of us being open to change is perhaps the only way any of us get the opportunity to pass on a world worth living in to our descendants. Thanks for watching. It makes me want to explore this subject more deeply. Thank you.

[@Greenmahn333]

👍

[@rikhuizing]

Bring back the Lynx!!! Seems like the best option!!!

[@Sam613306]

We also badly need lynx but I think they aren’t too far off them being reintroduced.

[@wvufoster]

Introduce a pair of wolves

[@commentarytalk1446]

It is quite simple: Climax natural Deciduous Forest for the majority of the British Isles "uplands" is the way forward. Just look at the organic measures associated and the macro abiotic factors consequent from that. Will take centuries to regenerate however demonstrating the macro scale effects involved that humans are weak at reckoning with.

[@marr123n]

I always wonder what the natural grazing pressure was before human intervention. Back then, we did not only have different kinds of deer such as red, fallow and roe, but also elk, auroch, tarpan, wisent, waterbuffalo, ... Many more grazing animals in, probably, quite high numbers. Of course, there were also predators so the behaviour of the grazing animals would be different. But still, there would probably be forests that, through high grazing pressure, would eventually turn into grassland. And then eventually turn into forest again. We must not forget that natural habitats are dynamic. There is no 'end' or 'climax' habitat, these are circular and one turns into another sometimes, slowly as is. Grazing is a natural process, balanced out by predators. But 'natural' forest regeneration without any grazing is just as unnatural as no forest regeneration. Regenerating forests without any obstruction from grazin, flooding, ... creates overly dense woodlands where biodiversity will fall just as well, because a forest without those obstructions is just as well unnatural. Allowing light grazing within the fence would absolutly favor biodiversity. But so I wonder, how many grazing animals would have wandered our lands per km² in the past...?

[@lettochfilms]

That's a great thought. Thank you. Throw into that the fact that there were no towns and cities, no land given over to agriculture, etc etc. Lots more land for woodland and grazing. Even on our small 17 acre rewilding site we would benefit from some light grazing from time to time. We're too small to have permanent grazing, unless pigs maybe(?), but we would benefit from a small herd of cattle in the autumn for a week I think, just to churn up the ground a bit. Isn't the point of natural predators that they keep the numbers in balance but also keep herds of grazers moving so that regeneration has time to happen? Lots to explore. Thank you for watching and for commenting.

[@marr123n]

@@lettochfilms thank you for responding! It’s a great video for much food for thought. I agree with your statement of using cattle for a low intensity grazing a few days or weeks a year. It would indeed replicate the movement of herds by predators. A step further even would be to let cattle graze in autumn for a while and then horses in summer. It would both stimulate shrub to grow denser and thornier which benefits songbirds, and it would also bring a little disturbance in soil and rampant vegetation growth. I think it would bring about a balance between natural succession and overgrazing. Anyway an awesome project and much needed for sure. I will definitely keep following to see how it grows!

[@honeybeesforsale]

Venison should be on the menu in all of our prisons - but hey common people dining on venison. Shocking!

[@alanbrooke144]

Ah, the gateway film to the film “Why We Need Wolves - Rewinding Lettoch”.

[@jbss7382]

THIS FILM, is brilliant Every single person that cares about deer, shooting and biodiversity; needs to see this. Although I’m a “townie”, I understand totally bushcraft, the countryside and about over predation. As Monbio did and or narrated about in Canada; we MUST bring back the natural predators. The farmers might not like it; but they are merely custodians. Thank you so much for making this film. Jonathan

[@Esther_Calx]

It’s hard to explain to nature deniers that everything in a forest matters

[@DonAl9114]

Fencing is getting expensive over the time. Not sure if wolves will be the solution as they might get an appetite for animals on farms. A strikter hunting might be more efficient and less expensive.

[@user-bp6qo8gw6w]

Europeans could learn a lot from game management strategies in Africa. We understand this science very well. Come and learn!

[@Penworthey]

The cosequence of those in the past who were convinced they were Right and convincing others they were Right...were in actual fact...as Wrong as Wrong could be.

[@SD-vy7gj]

Nuild a wall! Make Scotland green again!

[@someblokecalleddave1]

Politics, it's down to politics. You have to vote for the parties that might support such initiatives or conversely vote to stop the parties that are primarily only interested in allowing specific people to exploit the eco-systems for their own personal financial gains to the detriment of the rest of us and nature.

[@markglidden8766]

More wolves less sheep and cows! We don't need deer fences as much as livestock fences. Use the fences to protect the livestock and let the wolves and deer roam free.

[@joshhoppring5051]

The right amount of Cows can be beneficial but we aren't keeping them properly. Cows should be kept in scrubland. Sheep are very selective about the grasses / saplings they eat whereas cows eat all of it evenly.

[@user-wq9lb6vp2h]

Bring back the apex predators. We need to learn how to live with them not without them.

[@jackwright1954]

Great vid! New subscriber here wish I could do something to help

[@normanmurray3659]

Rowan is not a native Rowan.

[@Johnjohn-zf1op]

So much money is spent just on fences and hunting. Wouldn't it be cheaper to bring the eco system into balance and maybe create a national park like Banff? There are huge empty areas in Scotland? Wildlife and Natur should be wild and not from humans with fences?! Crazy world😵‍💫😅 I mean really good project 👍 More fence for sheep’s and Agriculture and the rest really wild?!

[@jamesabrett]

Bring back the natural predators

[@stewartjones2173]

What we need is cheaper venison. Create a better market.

[@alexking1348]

Venison is ridiculously cheap in the UK.

[@stewartjones2173]

@@alexking1348 one man's cheap is another man's expensive. If it's that cheap why aren't we seeing it in supermarkets?

[@alexking1348]

@@stewartjones2173 consumer demand/taste. The vast proportion of UK venison either gets sold to the continent, or directly into restaurants which, understandably, charge a significant margin on it. There are even schemes to encourage food banks to take pre made venison meal pouches (bolognese etc), but consumers have a misconception that it is a very gamey meat, which usually it isn’t. Game dealers will only pay £1 per Kilo carcass weight for deer. If you Google where your nearest game dealer is and speak with them, you’ll be surprised at just how much cheaper than beef it is.

[@stewartjones2173]

@@alexking1348 I'm sorry!? Run that by me again. restaurants understandably charge an inflated mark-up! What? charging more than beef! Where is your understanding there? It seems to me that restaurants are giving venison a luxury profile on a cheap meat. The first time I decided to choose venison an idiot cook (no chef he) char-grilled the small portion which I reluctantly ate being starving hungry. I complained afterwards that one might as well put charcoal tablets in a pepper grinder and pepper the meat with that. So! If restaurants are taking the Mickey Bliss by queering the the pitch for venison they are doing the market no good at all.

[@alexking1348]

@@stewartjones2173 what are you suggesting? The restaurants are laughing at you whilst rolling in profits?… the hospitality sector is on its knees, it’s not their job to be forcing a market. If they can sell it for x instead of y then of course they will. The consumer drives the market - people like yourself, that will only eat it in a restaurant that is what keeps the price high. Who else do you think will ‘create a better market’? And actually - to be fair to restaurants. Most of them exclusively serve venison loin - which is, by a long shot, the most expensive cut. (The cost of two loins butchered is more than that of an entire deer in the fur - which is hard to believe I know) If you are looking for good, cheap venison. Give a game dealer a call, ask for a bone in, venison haunch (Preferably not from a stag in the rut as this will be gamey). Honestly, you will be pleasantly surprised with its quality and value.

[@Declanscatwell]

You say the grouse moors is barren land but they ain't barren they are full of wildlife unlike areas that are rewilding, carry on rewilding and you can say goodbye to your wader birds. Also the last wolf was killed near brora in 1700s

[@lesterstanden2435]

I only watched to see why you ''need a deer fence'' but that question wasn't answered. Deer fencing is pretty new compared with the millions of years that forests have been regenerating with deer living in them. Deer aren't the problem; people who fail to manage them in the absence of their natural predators are. Mostly they are one and the same as those who advocate fencing as a solution.

[@joshhoppring5051]

We need wolves and rifles

[@user-io5tv1rv4v]

eat more venison........and stop voting tory..

[@filthy-hobbit]

Stop voting for morons of all parties.

[@andremarais2706]

The C word? Bye.

[@jordanbeagle5779]

Talking about how much carbon is locked up in these rich woodlands is so sad. Reducing the richness of life to how much carbon it stores is a testament to humanity’s current view of nature.

[@janbastein7355]

Deer farming for hunting is a multi Million Dollar business in the UK and Scotland. It’s all bla bla, .

[@christopherhinton6456]

manage it for profit same old story. greed.

[@muskett4108]

As for burning, then when the ground litter gets large enough a wild fire will burn the lot. Big heather burns hot when dry. Without managed and controlled burning then all that effort of 30/40 years will go up in smoke. At least put cattle in to chew and trample the ground litter down. These objectives are commendable, but the lack of in depth thought of what is a sophisticated subject is gobsmackingly daft in places.

[@Red-Robin4]

I’m for rewilding but not if it means killing other animals there are ways to rewild without killing deer. People are always wanting to kill animals for any reason it’s not right.

[@IanPhillipsWildlife]

Deer numbers are way too high and trashing the local ecosystem, people should have never wiped out their predators, wolf and lynx reintroductions should be the solution.

[@henchy3rd]

To many deer? Not enough natural large predators & not enough wild spaces as the lands are depleted by humans.