Why You Should Interview For New Jobs Every 2 Years

[@ALifeAfterLayoff]

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[@cat679]

Do you have any advice for people working in the public sector? I hardly see anyone touching on this topic in depth and I would love to hear your views.

[@vincentkingsdale8334]

Are you talking about physical therapy??😊

[@steve6135]

I’ve been job hunting trying to get out of my current company, but man it’s tough out there.

[@suzannefigueroa9797]

How about a year? I've been at my job for a year and I HATE it. Looking to quit

[@ashleryz718]

Same I don’t necessarily hate where I work, great culture and benefits but I want to rapidly grow on my own but I’m like …..is it worth jumping ship right now when all the unemployed are desperately competing even if the employed have an advantage but it’s so nasty right now

[@teeeteee000]

​@@ashleryz718Life is about taking risks but don't jump ship because everyone else is. It's not always greener on the other side. If you have it good, then enjoy it while it lasts but always keep learning new skills, keep up with the changing trends and evolve when the time is right for you.

[@Remi-Toruzen]

Been hunting for over four years out of seasonal work and with the pandemic bullshit the unemployment office have been assholes refusing to authorize my companies pay for winter layoffs. It’s a pain as the places that I did manage to get through either gave me barely 30hr/week in basement renovation or only wanting midnight workers and ghosting me for any other positions as a couple examples.

[@teeeteee000]

​@@Remi-ToruzenTimes are definitely hard nowadays. Hope you find something, the sooner the better.

[@alcnwonderlnd]

I've done this, and it does come up in interviews since I'm considered a "job hopper," but I always say I left for a better opportunity. Employers cannot fault you for that. And if they do have issue with it, then they are not a company I would want to work for. I'm always looking for opportunities because, in my experience, companies do not give out raises enough.

[@ALifeAfterLayoff]

Interviewing for isn’t the same as accepting a new job. The point is to know your market value and not fall too far behind.

[@vladluteen2299]

​@@jabber1990if you aren't getting a raise after a year. You are either a mediocre employee or you are being taken advantage of.

[@ronl6812]

@@jabber1990 because they don't cost much or the company is promoting based on arbitrary characteristics instead of merit. Don't work for that type of company.

[@cpK054L]

​@@ronl6812you see thus trait...the more Indians in the company they have. Prime example: Amazon

[@cagtbd]

I was in an interview with a client and they told me I was 1.5 years in average with any company. Truth is I became redundant every 2 years and I didn't stay when the culture was toxic. But of ourse you won't say that, I told them about the redundancy and the small periods were projects because ironically they were and the client was happy to let me go after my test period was done as we were not good match for each other. Since my last work usually keeps people around if they have good set of skills I expected to last at least 5 years but I got a better offer so yeah, this is one of the few times I changed because of money and I don't regret it, at least for now.

[@josep9599]

Yep. I change every 1.5-2 years and have gotten a 15-25% salary increase each time.

[@TommyGunzzz]

How many times have you done that? What's your current salary

[@josep9599]

@@TommyGunzzz I graduated college 7 years ago, and just started job number 7 yesterday. Started at $40k and now I’m at $135k plus 15% bonus.

[@pushon10]

Does that end up restricting the number of jobs you apply for each time?

[@cpK054L]

​@josep9599 this is the way. I started out of college 7 years ago at 60k as well. Ended my career recently, last paybwas 98k. Still bitter, don't feel like ever working again😂

[@TommyGunzzz]

@@josep9599 wow

[@katzenpapa]

I feel qualified to comment: the number one thing I've learned do not stay loyal to a company unless you can clearly see yourself moving up in responsibility and pay. I stayed at a company for about 10 years and I knew I wasn't getting paid but I should have, but I thought that my loyalty would pay off. However, it did not and I began to become disgruntled. So instead of staying and being a sour apple. I started applying for new jobs and ended a 25% raise with just a job switch, plus the bonus went from 5% to 10%. Another way to put this is that the company itself can be a great company but the actual management you work under is who's going to decide if you get to move up if you get promoted if you get more responsibility or not and if you don't see yourself being friends with these people you likely not going to move up in any significant way.

[@thepunisherxxx6804]

Moving up in responsibility can be a double edged sword. I've been there done that in engineering, same with co-workers and friends. Often its way more anxiety and stress than people think depending on the career of course. Its very different when things fall to you and you're the boss.

[@katzenpapa]

@@thepunisherxxx6804 yeah I get what you're saying but the way I look at it is that you should know if you're ready for something like that. But however, that's not really. The point I'm trying to make. The point I'm trying to make is that you can't really make significant steps or get promoted if you're not taking on new projects, new responsibilities and they're putting their trust in you to be able to do things beyond your scope that you currently working in.

[@jaydenp4975]

Depends on the type of job industry and company

[@katzenpapa]

@@jaydenp4975 yes of course it ALWAYS depends. But for an ambitious person that wants to get ahead, they need to determine the path in the current company is real or not. Otherwise you could literally miss out 100s of thousands if not, possibly a few million, over the course of your work career. Of course not in just pay but other benefits as well, such stock options and retirement matching for example.

[@csensale]

There’s some people I can think of for personal reasons get stuck in picker packer warehouse jobs or did something like phlebotomy school but gave up and stayed part time in retail as their only job for yeaaarrrssss because they didn’t have the right experience

[@nbonasoro]

Sometimes you can't put a dollar value to peace of mind, consistency, predictability, comfort, work friends,work life balance, pto, good boss, good commute and everything else I missed. It's really stressful interviewing for a role and learning a new position. As long as you're making enough to be comfortable, who cares?

[@morganseppy5180]

As soon as you're not making the bean counters happy, you're gone. Ask 260k ppl in tech last year, who were not ppl but wages and matching agreements that needed to be eliminated so the ppl at the top can get their millions.

[@nekto34]

A couple of years ago I was working for a large bank making just under $58k. My last raise was a whopping $500, so bumped me to just below the $58k. I asked them if they could do 60k. The answer was a hard no in the form of "forget about it". Ok. I found a job at a direct competitor for $75k plus annual bonus. Had to relocate, but it was cool. When looking for an apartment in my new city, they asked me to submit pay stubs. Submitted pay stubs from my "58k employer". The leasing agent looked at them and said that's not enough. The offer letter from the new job worked and I got the apartment. My conclusion: if I needed to move without a new job, and retained that old salary, it could have been difficult to rent in the current market. Definitely didn't hesitate to switch jobs after finding out. Employers are stingy though!

[@SevenFortyOne]

"being the new person" ... I overlooked that when I made a job change 7 months ago. I went from being an established, respected, SME to a noob at 50 years old and its been quite humbling. Looking from the outside in its probably a good thing for my personal development that this is happening but it's been much harder to live with than I thought it would be.

[@Dweeble233]

In that spot now. My position was cut as part of a large restructuring. It will be an interesting change to go from SME at my old employer to the FNG at a new one.

[@et5927]

Dealing with same thing at 50 years old

[@knaudi86]

This is often discounted so glad to see this comment here. I'm in a similar spot. Its tough to get your sea legs under you as a newb.

[@marcoelhodev]

It is always tought being the "new guy", but it's something we should get used to. You were the "new guy" long ago in yoiur current position, in your career, it is something you just forgot.

[@kenny1514]

This further confirms why it's important to change employers every 2-5 years. It's important to be comfortable with change and not get too comfortable. Last November it was disheartening seeing people that have spent 20 years at my company get laid off. Most if not all were VPs and quite a few were far from retirement age and clearly in distress about going back to the job market.

[@jackcarraway4707]

First 3 months: Keep applying every day as if you don't have a job. It can take employers weeks or even months to respond to your application, but it doesn't take you nearly as long to determine if you can see yourself in your current role past that probation period. Months 3-6: Scale your search back to once per week. Generally once you pass 90 days the job is a decent enough fit and you don't need to be as aggressive in your job hunt. Months 6-12: Once every other week. 12 months onwards: Once per month.

[@parlor3115]

13 months: quit your job and start again

[@teeeteee000]

​@@parlor3115So who acts as your referee when you quit that job?

[@uganda8956]

90 days dosent mean you might actually like the job especially if you it hated at the beginning. Keep looking like you don't have a job even after 90 days.

[@jackcarraway4707]

@@uganda8956 If the job sucks bad enough you'll bail within the first 90 days. Job hunting within the first 90 days should be treated as a full time job in of itself. I say scale back afterwards to avoid burnout. Obviously there's going to be exceptions, but this is a general guideline on how I approach job hunting when I have a job.

[@the.blue.raven7777]

Where to find so many jobs ?

[@kated442]

Fulfilling work at high pay? Pipe dream. I’d be happy with a boring job at lower pay if it’s stable and I’m not stressed about performance reviews all the time.

[@TommyGunzzz]

Not if you have a family or ambition

[@cpK054L]

I wouldn't recommend.... the last job with stability I had had me dealing woth gynocwntric henhousing. no thanks

[@Michelle_McKenzie]

I got laid off making 58k.. next job worked for 8 months making 84k doing contract work. Then got a FTE making 95k. So in 1 year I've substantially increased my salary. I'm studying for a new cert right now. Plan to get promoted at my current job, stay for a year, and then try to move to a new company that'll offer me a 30% bump.

[@GoogleAccount00]

Congratulations!!!

[@MsEssance]

Congratulations 🎉

[@ChatGPT1111]

The higher up you go, the longer you have to wait to get a promotion and/or substantial raise. I've heard that for each $10k or job classification, you have to wait an additional month after putting out applications.

[@hanshans9902]

Nice

[@akc783]

Personally I think that’s a dangerous game to play. If you tell your employer you intend to leave, you need to follow through.

[@akc783]

@@ChimChim-di6jz But this same channel does a video on why you should never accept a counter offer and one of the reasons is now they know you are not committed and will start looking to replace you… on their own timetable. They don’t actually have commitment to you, you just caught them off guard and they want time to prepare.

[@LAZERZ-OP]

Why would you tell your employer that you plan to leave the company? It just puts a target on you back. The company isnt going to give you notice when they lay you off so just keep it to yourself until you've got the new job

[@teeeteee000]

​@@LAZERZ-OP Exactly! Dumb move alright.

[@parlor3115]

Lmfao, why would you tell your employer? Are you two texting after 9 or something?

[@Donbros]

It is bad yea but if they rise quite well why not and if you dont hate job. I personally hated my job every minute (besides it was not far from home) thus probably it should have been 60% for me to reconsider

[@nsa9821]

During an interview, I was hassled about why I left jobs in 1.5-2 years after joining. Although I believe you should job shop every couple years, too many old head managers and directors will scoff at it. Things need to change in corporate America!

[@hinduismwithpremananddasbhagat]

Same! I worked for two companies in a year that both closed. Small companies. One was just created for a contract, and the contract ended. The other just was done. Not my fault. But, I was called out in interviews as having something wrong with me for not sticking with these jobs. Do you sit and explain the history of failed companies that have nothing to do with you?

[@dianaverano7878]

@@hinduismwithpremananddasbhagat they are just testing you, if they are calling your attention on jumping jobs. A way to check if you are telling the truth ( example: is it really end of contract?) Not your fault if you want to transfer anywhere.

[@Websitedr]

I was in a job for 8 years and the market really changed while I stayed put. In hindsight I should have left 4-5 years ago and moved up quicker over to another place. Even the resume process was different when I got laid off last year I didn't expect it to change so much.

[@20-NYC]

Why do you feel should of left 4-5 years ago

[@KamalaTheClown]

@@20-NYCGood question. More than likely it’s because he was comfortable. When you’re comfortable, you become complacent and when complacency sets in, you stop be becoming competitive.

[@JustAGrl007]

Same! I was laid off 3 times prior to my last job, which I also got laid off 😂 after 6 years. I should’ve left that job before I got laid off but I got comfortable. Now I’m at my current job for almost 2 years and I’m going to start looking because getting back out there to interview was rough the last time. Even if you don’t plan on looking you should at least interview once a year so you’re not so rusty when it’s actually time to leave.

[@dianaverano7878]

That is true. Job application becomes brutal as time goes by. Same regrets. Stayed up to 6 yrs. Should have spent 2 yrs only. And you cant be too chill to not apply to new companies nowadays. So you will be updated on how job application works in your country/state. It took me yrs to find a new job in my southeast asian country. So many applicants, less jobs available. From academe, manufacturing 1 and 2 company, now on govt. Still I want to apply job to this day, but another country.

[@KamalaTheClown]

This is such a double edged sword. While being satisfied in your current role gives you that sense of being stable and comfortable, it also doesn’t allow you to progress. I experienced this recently. I left a VERY comfortable role where I was happy and was there for 6 years. Great boss, great colleagues, loved the work. I was contacted by another organization and was terrified the first 10 months of the new role. I kept saying it was such a mistake as I went from being the subject matter expert to being the newest. A year and a half later, I finally coming to see how good of a decision it was as I now have added so much more to my knowledge base. I am in a dilemma as I may have a chance to boomerang back….we’ll see.

[@csensale]

I’ve been in comfortable retail job just for the money for years but my degree and interests are not related I just took it out of desperation now I’m almost forty. Can’t stand the drama and negative coworkers (this is supermarket retail)

[@mercedesdesere5004]

One of my college instructors told us to always be looking for another job

[@erin19030]

I spent my life always having my resume updated. However in my time in the job market loyalty to one employer was the key to success until my mid 50’s. In the end my loyalty to the company did not pay off instead I was rewarded with joblessness verging on homelessness. My career took a severe dive into oblivion. It took me twenty years to recover my salary and at point I was over the hill and unemployable suffering with heart disease, cancer and diabetes.be careful out there.

[@nick8243]

Ive been with my company for almost 6 years now and my income has increased by 65% since starting. I got promoted twice. And always got around 10% bonuses. I get 5 weeks of paid vacation. I'd rate my company 4 stars. It's really hard to convince me to leave. I work 38 hours a week.

[@justinallen3037]

You my friend have found a gem! I'm in about the same situation. It's really hard to leave all the benefits. It's makes it even easier to stay no that I have no debt but just a mortgage. I let my wife do all the hopping around. I'm back making more than her because her last employer was toxic.

[@kenny1514]

This is the exception and unfortunately not the norm. It is still important to stay in the loop with the job market. Apply from time to time and interview. It's even better to job search when you don't wanna leave, as you have zero pressure in interviews and can ask blunt and direct questions. Great for market research. Plus you never wanna lose your job hunting skills. Layoffs can always happen even after 20+ years of service.

[@AmandaGatesHome]

Wow nick you truly have found a gem and I wouldn’t leave either. My experience has been zero raises and the last two companies I worked for had no benefits or retirement plan. And zero paid vacations. If I could find an employer like yours I wouldn’t leave!

[@nick8243]

@@kenny1514 I disagree. I have done the before and left a great job to take a new job only to get laid off two months into the new role. From my experience, employers value longevity over a candidate who is job hopping. Job hunting skills can be quickly learned again and it's still fresh in my mind. Plus, I watch this channel to stay abreast on issues related to job hunting.

[@kenny1514]

@@nick8243 layoffs can happen for multiple reasons. If a person that got hired a month ago performs a task deemed more critical to the business, than the task being performed by the guy who has been there for years, the newbie is less likely to get laid off than the seasoned employee. Just in my department (within a big multinational company), there were lay offs last year, and not a single junior or newbie was laid off. Everyone who get laid off had been with the company 15+ years and most were in managerial level. I am still of the opinion that staying at a job for 5+ years if you are not being promoted significantly just provides a false sense of security. On a more personal level, it hurt less when laid off from a job I spent less time at, than at one I committed to for years, felt secured in.

[@mrmurdx8956]

Ive been interviewing at different companies for the past 4 years for a far better salary and its become more and more toxic to get anything better than what u currently have. So if you are happy with what you have dont toss it for something dull and boring.

[@jon6309]

I read somewhere that 2 years is the break even point for employers so when a worker stays longer the more valuable they become but they do not get salary increases to reflect it. From my personal experience applying for a new job is much better than getting promoted because I always feel the salary increase for a promotion does not make up for the expectations and added responsibility and I always reflect back thinking I was better off at my former position even though the pay is lower. At least with a new job you have a little bit more flexibility when negotiating the terms. My company doesn’t allow you to negotiate salary with promotions and now they are even applying that to internal applicants within the company but atleast you can turn down an offer if they don’t meet your expectations. With promotions it’s kind of harder to turn down and when you do it’s tricky because the manager may see you as ungrateful or unmotivated.

[@jimkoney4200]

If possible before you accept a job offer try to get a walk thru the department to get a gut feeling for the work environment. Hopefully, you can avoid jumping from the frying pan into the fire.

[@teeeteee000]

You don't go on an office tour before deciding if you are going to accept the job or not. What company does that? Waste of time in my opinion. You are put on a probation trial when you accept it, you or the company has that time to review and decide whether the company is a fit for you or not.

[@jimkoney4200]

I left a company and took a new position elsewhere. Had I known more about the Department I never would have accepted. I didn't know anyone at that company who could have informed me. I took a chance and lost.@@teeeteee000

[@GoogleAccount00]

@@teeeteee000that happened to me…..

[@morganseppy5180]

​@@teeeteee000being dragged in to look at the office would be an indicator of a boomer workplace. 🚩🚩probably will force you to use that pretty open plan "workspace" so they can justify the lease.

[@AmandaGatesHome]

This is so true. I was laid off during the pandemic but ended up making $25k more a year at my next job. Then I left for another job last year and got a $20k increase in pay. Asked my current employer if I’d be getting a raise anytime soon (been there 1.5 years) and it was a no. With rent skyrocketing and everything else doubling in price I’m now interviewing and looking for another position that pays better.

[@Ken-vk8pb]

When you were laid off from your last job did you tell the next job the truth that you were laid off or did you just have to say you were still at your last job since these companies will see being laid off is a bad thing and not be likely to hire you sometimes. Sometimes its easier and better to just lie to them and tell them your still employed since most companies rarely check with previous or current employers anyway. How long until you found the new job?

[@AmandaGatesHome]

@@Ken-vk8pb they never asked. What they did ask was why I was interested in their opportunity. I was never dishonest and had they asked I would have said I was laid off. The company closed down and left the state. That’s completely out of my control. My recent layoff was due to lack of business and sales being down. They are a mom and pop and the economy is starting to affect them. Most of the companies I’m interviewing with are Fortune 500 companies so if they ask why I was laid off - only one has - I’m telling them that lack of revenue was the cause.

[@Ken-vk8pb]

@@AmandaGatesHome Thanks, That's true most companies are only interested in what you can do for them and not too interested in your last job or past jobs unless the job pertains to what they do at the new company in some way or another. In your case it was best to tell the truth and be honest and some employers will appreciate your honesty and integrity but for others it can cause them to not hire you since no matter the reason for being laid off some companies see that as a negative against you even if no fault of your own. It just depends on the individual company and hiring manager. Good Luck in your new job.

[@AmandaGatesHome]

@@Ken-vk8pb Thanks! And honesty is always best. If they don't hire you for a trivial reason like a lay off, it's likely not the best company to work for.

[@randyriegel8553]

I boomeranged once. I left old company politely with two week notice but was still working on the side for them few hours a week. I thought the grass was greener on other side... it was not. VP of Technology took me back a few weeks later with same compensation, all my vacation time still there, etc... I'm very glad that I did it in a way that I could come back if I didn't like the new opportunity.

[@bethiciaprasek1008]

I try to do this each year, but it actually ends up being every 2-3 years in practice. One thing you didn't highlight enough (IMO) is how it helps the employer. You certainly don't need to reveal you are doing it to them though. It makes you knowledgeable enough on pay rates so you are harder to poach away at a rate your manager isn't about to match/exceed. You see the upcoming skills required in your industry and can make your skill set more proactively valuable to your current employer. WIN-WIN.

[@davidjiang6174]

I actually think an additional reason is to just be polished with your own job searching skills. A lot of people I've met who have been in the same place for a long time, one of the reasons is they haven't done a job search for so long they are scared, unsure of themselves or where to start etc. If you regularly keep things polished, you can step into an interview, hand over a CV instantly with no stress and part of that is just to apply for some jobs even if you don't intend to take any of them.

[@CoachAjBuck]

Leverage. It’s all about leverage. As you articulated, employers always wait until the last possible minute to retain someone-it’s a combination of laziness and desire to drive down costs. Having another job offer is the best (and often only) way to regain leverage as an employee. Great video!

[@johngoldsworthy7135]

Exactly. People need to approach with this mindset. Unfortunately, companies are weaponizing your loyalty to pay you less. Play their game but better :)

[@frankgrabasse4642]

Employers are narcissistic.

[@HueyFreeman-l7m]

Even if you managed to secure a better offer. Why would you even entertain staying? When you stay, unless in certain circumstances, you are officially on borrowed time with that employer until they find a way to get rid of you.

[@mateofernando5066]

#knowyourworth; You need to take responsibility to get the pay that you are entitled to. The private companies goal is to pay workers as little as possible. Its not personal but just business. Literally.

[@BlackamusJones]

Our society and civilization should have a responsibility to the people. Uprooting and moving every couple years for a new job is not healthy for families.

[@DiamondFlame45]

@@jabber1990then stay poor then kid. Your boss might not pay you what you are worth but someone else will

[@DiamondFlame45]

@@jabber1990 Okay kid. Bootlicking isn’t going to get you far.

[@teeeteee000]

Depends on what significant changes and profit you make for the company.

[@teeeteee000]

@@jabber1990 What are you going on about?

[@Swanzo]

My experience has been like this. I ask for a raise and they tell me no. I go find another job that pays what I want. They then offer more but its too late I already accepted a job elsewhere. They then hire a new person making as much if not more than what I was asking for and they have to spend 6 months training the new person.

[@anniesshenanigans3815]

yep. I left a 15 year career. It took them 8 months to replace me and actually had to hire 2 people. karma... that is what that is...

[@christopherbarrows5040]

I might be late to add this, but attend professional conventions for your field. My boss knows I frequently attend these for Profesional development. A few managers called him about me and he gave me a 17% raise to stay.😊

[@ForgottenKnight1]

I think the only way to adapt to how things are today is to shift your mentality from an employee to a service provider. Then it will be clear to you why the only loyalty is the one to yourself and it won't be a pain in the butt anymore to onboard new clients, it will simply be part of the process.

[@cjanquart]

Kinda runs counter to everything I've been taught about job searching but I'm thinking I've been brainwashed by "loyalty" (the complacency part hit home as I was at my last eight years because I got a great post but applied for other positions but never got a callback...and this was for internal positions). Great content!

[@JonathanE65]

Spot on... I made that mistake and lost out from the perspective of being aware of the market in my field.

[@BUTGOD-j1x]

Exactly. Very onpoint. As you have said in past videos, that the employee is a "free agent" and I have to represent myself. This outlook has allowed me to "renegotiate my contract" every 2-3 years. That way I stay paid at the highest market rate for my profession. I have reached the NBA level of my profession, no longer in the "G league". By doing this last year, I bumped up my income 43% doing the same work. Great video. Keep up the same work.

[@ALifeAfterLayoff]

Nicely done.

[@fortusvictus8297]

I do agree with the interview part. Once upon a time I had a mean interview/application skillset, skip forward a couple of decades, put in for a job I was overqualified for but wanted to 'knock the rust off' as it were. I got the interview immediately from the resume but totally blew the interview...literally worse than any interview I have ever had, even as a teenager. It is certainly a perishable skill, but I know where things went sideways and will be better prepared for a more attractive job next time.

[@daveofyorkshire301]

My best jobs were 7 and 5 years, one ended because of a corporate buy-out (takeover) the other because of company economic collapse, taxation being the final nail in the coffin (the owner was willing to sacrifice but wasn't bullish enough to take risks that could have paid off big). Other than that I did move every couple of years... Never let the employer get the upper hand. It he doesn't need you more than you need him it's a bad situation.

[@daves.software]

I think it really depends on the employer. At my current employer I have a traditional pension, as well as a Roth 401K, up to 7% match on 401K contributions, and 10% of my salary added to my pension's cash value annually, and annual bonuses that can hit 10% or more, 200 hours of vacation per year, and raises have averaged 5.3% for the past 7 years. I don't see myself leaving unless someone like Google or Meta makes me one hell of an offer. I don't make as much as they pay, but I also don't live in one of the most expensive cities on earth.

[@dancingshade5344]

Holy crap. How are you getting 200 hours of vacation a year? Are you including holidays?

[@daves.software]

@@dancingshade5344 no. Holidays are separate. Edit: I just checked, and I was a bit off. It's 192 hours of vacation per year, going up to 216 when I hit 15 years of service, and then 240 hours/year when I hit 20years of service. So the progression is: 0-4: 144 hours 5-9: 168 hours 10-14: 192 hours 15-19: 216 hours 20+: 240 hours I was off because in some instances, if we get an extra 8 hours in lieu of a holiday. I don't recall the specific circumstances.

[@vetgirl71]

Dave’s software I think it depends on your occupation also, if there is a great demand in your field you have more flexibility to stay at an organization that provides great benefits (health, matching 401k, a lot of pto time ect). But in some job markets/roles it’s beneficial to not stay over 5 years, so you can get a better salary. As you get older & havd longer tenure at some jobs your employer doesn’t value your loyalty as much. So they may find ways to get rid of you , micromanaging, adding more tasks to overload your workload , “re-organize” the department or simply lay you off. Ageism is real! After awhile you salary and benefits are much too high compared to hiring two younger people in your place for less pay and giving the “subpar “ benefits (ex: less pto for new hires ect). So don’t get too comfortable for too long!

[@daves.software]

@@vetgirl71 Thankfully our management seems to value performance, and finding experienced software developers is challenging enough without compounding the problem by firing your lead developers. That would be penny-wise and pound-foolish.

[@ayanamariemia]

Yeah, that’s a hard situation to walk away from.

[@thenibelung2660]

Been at my job 4 years and i have inherited the responsibilities of 5 ppl, apart than me, who left during that time. I'm drowning.

[@lollipopdragon2259]

That happened to me too. 👫 Jobs that devolve into skeleton crews do NOT improve - they BREAK people. It's time to quietly look for another job elsewhere before you're too burnt out to escape. 🏃‍♀️

[@Meritumas]

And you aren’t paid 5x, are you?

[@thenibelung2660]

@@Meritumas haha not even remotely 🤡

[@abendiaye3330]

I figured 3-5 years to not look like a job hopper. I always thought most employers would want at least 3-5 years of service. It also makes me look more stable.

[@NothingToSeeHere1141]

I have multiple jobs that lasted 1.5 to 2 years. A couple I left due to toxic work environments and have been part of some layoffs. I am currently job searching and get heavily penalized. One interviewer told me they were looking for a unicorn and a unicorn would have long tenure at employers. I wasn't their unicorn but I'm okay with that. Lol

[@Meritumas]

Unicorn? Run away from this BS company.

[@NothingToSeeHere1141]

@Meritumas I actually almost laughed at first because I thought she may have been joking but the look on her face told me she wasn't. They have reposted the job multiple times since then and that's been 2 months ago. I guess they are having a hard time finding their unicorn.

[@schuylergeery-zink1923]

The thing about unicorns is that… they’re mythical.

[@snuggisthecute]

I work in healthcare and from what I've seen after 8 years in my field, we get 2% raises annually no matter where we work. I just changed employers after exactly 2 years of being with my most recent employer. I got a $20k raise. Just like that. Still, new graduates in my line of work are making almost as much as I am. So, my guess is that 2 years from now, new grads will be making MORE than I will be at that time. And I will be job hunting yet again lol.

[@cetriyasArtnComicsChannel]

Especially now, I don't know why they wait till after plan to leave. Seriously, why not reward your best employee?

[@gerardsloan1593]

This is a good way to stay fresh and challenge yourself. It's important to never get complacent (if you are trying to climb the career ladder), and avoid "typecasting" lol. If you are at the early stages of your career, it's good to look at things you're not qualified experienced for (yet) and then ask yourself how can I get this experience and knowledge? You may need to pay your dues and work in the trenches (fig) and perhaps apply for promotions or opportunities etc every two years as the title suggests. I know people who work in senior positions who started off modestly in their organisation and through hard work dedication etc they ascended the career ladder. You need to produce results that matter, have a good attitude work ethic and people skills. All of this can help you achieve anything in your career. Have a good day reader.

[@teeeteee000]

💯 This!

[@gerardsloan1593]

@@teeeteee000 thank you for your support. Have a good day

[@csensale]

How about just staying somewhere “safe” like retail even if it doesn’t interest you

[@gerardsloan1593]

@@csensalemy message above applied more to people that are interested in career advancement and bettering themselves. I know not everyone is interested in doing so and are content to stay in a rut. Some people don't have what it takes to succeed or go anywhere in life, it's just the way it is. Have a good day reader

[@FaceItGrace]

I suppose I got lucky because I left this job of 2 years after getting another after a workplace breakup. We also had a company merger happening and it came as a shock to virtually all of us. Employers should be more respectful to "job hoppers" because they've been willing to explore and grow in their roles. Also, a five dollar bill plus two one dollar bills plus one quarter is not a living wage with our price gouging and cost of living problems.

[@Vexrais]

The company I work at constantly gives me raises above market value and I have never had a bad performance review but I have had a not the greatest performance review they're the clear path of growth that we've discussed the steps for in every performance review every year to make sure I'm on track and meeting my own personal goals. There is nothing that I can see wrong with my employer and I personally believe I have one of the best employers possibly in the world.

[@mattb9664]

Make sure to factor in your commute time if you proceed through with finding another job! Just make sure that the 30% pay increase doesn't also result in an increased commute time!

[@JustAGrl007]

7:32 that happened to me! I’m training somebody who’s making the same or more than me and I have a lot more experience because I stay too long. These jobs ain’t it! And then, when I got “promoted”, they consider did a lateral move them and my pay never changed.

[@smania7575]

At my last job, they considered my promotion raise ($5k) my annual merit increase. I stayed longer than I should have at that place.

[@BorderTurrets]

Funny enough, my employer went down the drain on my 2 year mark. RTO policies implemented, budget cutting, multiple RIFs and I said screw it and turned my 2 weeks in. Luckily I budgeted to give a 6 month cushion to have the freedom of walking away. I revamped my LinkedIn, took a professional headshot, prepared for interviews, and spent a few days refreshing the format of my resume. Went from no responses to like a 33% response rate with competing offers fully remote. Thank you sir! Love your content.

[@zwerko]

One should interview often to keep that 'muscle' trained and to have a realistic measure of their worth on the market. However, I've been on both sides of the fence (employer and employee) and I've came to realize that if one gets a better offer somewhere, the last thing to do is to go to their current employer and 'threaten' leaving (esp. if they don't really have the intention but just want a raise). From employer's perspective, they will either let the employee go (which is presumably what the employee didn't really want) or offer to match/over-match the other offer if they can't afford losing that employee at that time. In the second case, the second thing after it is to make sure that this employee cannot threaten the business by asking for another raise down the line so they'll do everything possible to make the employee obsolete, or in best case scenario they'll never promote them to anything else as they will be qualified as a risk. From employee's perspective, now you know that your current employee doesn't value you adequately and you'll always wonder what else you can get on the market. If your current employer bends over and (over)match the external offer you'll know that it's just because they cannot afford to let you go at that moment but they'll make damn sure you cannot pull that ever again. Either way, your current workplace will become far, far less enjoyable and most likely a dead end for you. There is legit research on the topic of offer-matching and it turns out the vast majority of 'matched' offers (in order for the employee not to leave) end up with the employee leaving within a year anyway. So, save yourself the trouble-if you're an employer, pay your employees adequately and in the event of them coming to you and saying they have better offers, wish them all the best in their future endeavors. If you're an employee and you get a better offer but you don't want to leave, ask for a raise. If the offer is so much better, just take it and leave your current employee.

[@ptdlugosz]

Worst thing I did was stick around with a tech company for 6 years in operations. TC was 57k at the end, started at 40k. New company: TC at 90k after 3 years, with a starting salary of 75k. Will never make the same mistake again.

[@dsm_796]

I agree with this but not to use it against your current employer and get a raise but to leave your current employer every 2-3 years if you are not being rewarded in accordance to your performance and investment. If I don’t think I am getting what I deserve I will just look for another job and leave, I won’t give the opportunity to someone that didn’t appreciate my work the chance of paying me well just because someone else will. Well actually this is valid for any relationship - if you aren’t treated probably just leave, and don’t look back even if you are offered or promised that it will be different/better from now on (spoiler alert: it won’t).

[@10akee]

I typically look for a new job every 2 years. I get big raises that way.

[@bmiller949]

I agree with keeping your resume up to date and know where your skillsets fit in the marketplace. Maintain life work balance, so you have time to grow your career but not have you employer eat up all your free time.

[@blktauna]

The only reason I stayed at one company for over 5 years was they had an actual pension plan and I was getting vested in that come hell or high water.

[@christopherwilliams6746]

I'm 2 years into my first tech job. Have gained a lot of valuable skills. But the market is just crazy right now and I got promoted and got a 22% raise which is the same I was looking for for hopping. Going to see if I get another bump for the upcoming performance review.

[@barnastil591]

I usually can't stand people more than 12 months.

[@MrAllysonn]

This sentence hit home!!! I just can't. 😂

[@teeeteee000]

😂😂😂

[@TheScienceNerddAkemi]

*3-6 months for me...and that may be stretching it

[@anniesshenanigans3815]

I found a job where I rotate thru several locations and I don't have to 'deal' with the same people all day every day. Each place I go they ask if I am going to pick a 'home' and 'which location do I like the best". I tell them I like all of them and in reality, I do, but only in small doses.

[@aleksandrakaludjerovic1317]

Oh man... same here

[@Thronnos]

I actually got horribly disrespected by a potential employer because I was at a job for 4 years, one for 1 year and another for 3. And I was looking for a new one and was basically told that I switch jobs every year so I was a worthless employee. So, idk if this is great advice

[@morganseppy5180]

It's actually really good advice and you dodged a bullet with that boomer. Ignore the haters, or in this case the liars. Being at one company for 4 years is not "every year". They are not a good person to work with, much less for.

[@HueyFreeman-l7m]

If that's their stance then they are fucking boomertard. I know a person who has had 15 different positions in 8 years.....which is insane. That means a new job every eight months. And she was still getting hired. Tell that interviewer they don't have a fucking clue.

[@jonr9518]

I 100% agree I stayed at my first professional job for 9 years And never got a raise....making a 30k base salary plus commision.....so i left....and my next job gave me a 45k base......after 2.5 years...i got laid off....next job paid a 60k base.....stayed for about a year until i was headhunted.....i asked for a 71k base thinking theyd never pay that....and i got it.....with commisions i make around 100k in my first year Grab experience and run because your current employer will never pay you more to do the same job.....loyalty doesnt pay

[@vminhope3040]

This is true in every job right now fast food workers are getting 20/ hr soon with zero experience. While others with a decade will be making just a dollar more

[@scott2228]

Good point. Interview to test your market value. I just turned down an offer. In my email I listed “taking a roll that better reflects MY market value.”

[@NajCarnage]

I asked for a performance review at my company and got ghosted by my bosses. I just wanted a salary raise after 2 years, because I’ve been performing at 3-4x the company’s expected output per employee last year. I also found out my colleagues are better compensated than I am. I will be tendering my resignation tomorrow. Another company just offered me a 60% raise with way better benefits. So excited to start 😂

[@deicide100]

On the other hand, if you keep jumping from job to job every couple of years, you're more likely to never be an expert in anything and lose the stability in the process, while making your resume look worse. Many people jump ship to get salary bumps to be laid off 6-12 months later.

[@izamalcadosa2951]

You can become an expert in your role within 6 months to a year, if you're really smart!!

[@amicaaranearum]

One potential downside of job hopping is that when companies do layoffs, they sometimes have a LIFO (last in, first out) policy, resulting in the newest hires being laid off first.

[@schuylergeery-zink1923]

My husband is in IT and every company does it differently. So by working in many places he is better able to adapt to new systems.

[@johnburr9463]

I've been with my current company for 12 years. But you are right. I have had to squeak rather loud.

[@johnburr9463]

But it's also good to know when and how to squeak. I don't know of any formula that would work. In my case, each situation was completely different. But you do have to be able to get a sense for when and how.

[@recruitcrm]

The market really has shifted. Maybe it's time to test the waters again. This has certainly given me something to think about, Brian.

[@davidhollfelder9940]

Your point is so true. The day you’re hired, you’re in HR jail (aka gatekeepers). Especially, early in your career. They can only offer the middle of the minimum raise. Keep your eyes open for the next job, then jump (up) .. it’s the only way.

[@kylehaman9380]

So basically if you aren't getting paid what you should be getting paid/what you are worth, look for another job that pays more.

[@DIVISIONINCISION]

In the Federal system, the raises are tiered according to how you do in your yearly appraisal. If you meet standards, you will receive a $2-3K raise each year, but most people are looking at the next GS level after spending the minimum year at the prior level. Stability is there in the Federal system, but you can become underpaid if you stay in the same GS level.

[@ZTRCTGuy]

I agree with the fact that sensible job hopping can make you a lot more money. Thing is, work is about more than money and of you're spending 40 hours or more at the job then the workplace environment is a big factor as well. moving from a place with a great boss, great coworkers and fulfilling work to a toxic environment isn't worth that 10% pay raise. Also job hopping, especially every two years requires constant looking around and a lot more hassle on your part. Yes, it's important to look for new opportunities but also know when your position is good and you can stay for a few more years. If you happen to like the company you're working for think it's important that you first look inside for promotions.

[@anniesshenanigans3815]

that is a good perspective, BUT what happens if you are laid off after 8 or 10 years? you will be sol. The company I work for just laid off 15 people very unexpectedly. Some had been there a long time, some only a year or so. I think the idea is to be READY to bounce.

[@DanielPereira-vc9ms]

I used to job hop as well, every 2-3 years I'd go looking for greener pastures. However I've found a full remote position that pays very well - in the top 20% range of salaries for my position and experience - and I see absolutely no reason to try to reach for the top 10 or 5% and risk getting into another company that I know nothing about and maybe get twice the work load for a 10% pay raise - no thank you. As long as everyone in your house is well fed, warm, and provided for, being a healthy and happy parent is much better than earning a bigger salary.

[@charliedallachie3539]

It’s easy to get complacent in a role but these days it’s a matter of time before either you leave or they give you the pink slip …if you do it right you can do 20%+ pay bumps with each jump. I made a 50% one once.

[@LumbridgeTeleport]

I literally have this Amazone one of a kind job because someone took this guys advice! Please don’t ruin your life if you have a decent job! Stay

[@davidhollfelder9940]

I experienced job shock early in my career (and never forgot it). They openly stated from the start, that we were all rated on a “totem pole”. Over time, many new, young/entry employees were hired in the two years after I was hired. They had an ongoing review and raise process, occurring about three times a year, and all seemed to be going well .. until it wasn’t. I was becoming a mainstream performer, but younger, hungrier, cheaper employees were passing me up on the totem pole. At 3 years, the market crashed, and it was all over quickly.

[@christopherdiaz1350]

If you get a counter offer it's most likely because you have value and your employer does not currently have anyone to replace you but 6 months down the road, don't be surprised if you get let go once your replacement is in place. Most likely you will also be the first on the chopping block when layoffs come. Another thing to take into consideration if you get a pay increase your going to be expected to do much more. Sometime it's better to just leave.

[@MurangShaBu_MahalNaBiGas]

Hello, I suck at my job right now and I'm questioning my ability, is it time to quit?

[@treytwey5366]

......Like who is able to keep a job for 2 years in this economy.

[@king-remy]

Been at my company almost 4yrs

[@whateversunpopular1338]

If you work for the NHS

[@curiouspenguin6887]

Most jobs only seem to last 2 years before there are reorgs, meltdowns etc.

[@asadb1990]

Well for small companies its a gamble which i want to avoid. Larger companies tend to hire folk for 3+ years.

[@cpK054L]

I kept mine over 3, and got fired on purpose. Holla at yo boy

[@mechalovessquirrels]

I have job hopped three times since finishing undergraduate in 9 years. Every time my pay doubled. I also met and made better connections.

[@amicaaranearum]

One potential downside of job hopping is that when companies do layoffs, they sometimes have a LIFO (last in, first out) policy, resulting in the newest hires being laid off first. In a recessionary environment, you have to weigh that risk against the benefit of better compensation.

[@sp123]

Last video he mentioned this. That is why I don't take these "expert" opinions too seriously. We're all individuals and have to take our individual experience into account

[@anniesshenanigans3815]

that may be a good thing. I was hired with a 2 year contract at my current job. I am almost a year in. I cannot quit or I have to pay back the bonus. If they fire me I do not have to pay it back. Since the job I do is in high demand, the pay has skyrocketed recently and here I am stuck because I signed a one sided contract. They laid off 15 people last week. I can only hope....

[@princessm8977]

Love my current job and enjoy working with my coworkers. I'm approaching the two year mark and know there is no opportunity for promotion and little opportunity for higher compensation. I'd hate to leave and find myself in a job I hate but I also don't want to rob myself of potentially growing and/or earning more.

[@mrprocrastinator-004]

I love you man, you’ve helped so many people (including me) with your professional and informative videos. Thank you so much.

[@ALifeAfterLayoff]

I appreciate that!

[@clay2431]

I’ve been in same shop for 9 years(welding shop) and I’m having a hard time getting interviews anywhere. They treat me like a king where I am but I want to move into another industry. Lots of applications sent out and I only had 1 interview and I bombed it. I was prepared for job related questions but not the 5 year goal question and my weaknesses question as I stumbled my way through those questions the interview ended quickly after and I was clearly qualified but not prepped for the interview.

[@carguy4243]

Over two years and not one red cent was given to me or any other employee as a raise. Not a single performance evaluation either. I now make at least 30 percent more doing basically the same thing at a different company.

[@vinceod2440]

Quick question for you: I do 100% agree with you. I am a first time recruiter and work for an agency, in this position I’m really good at getting candidates all the way to the offer stage however my candidates have a 50/50 success rate to get an offer acceptance. Is it typical as a recruiter to get graded or kpi for the amount of offer declines/acceptance?

[@morganseppy5180]

Yes, you normally get paid off your candidates' jobs

[@FootBallonQc]

Someone close to me got a job, worked there for 2 years. Got a job elsewhere, but was not satisfied with it. When he return to his first job, he got a 30% raise while he already a good salary

[@BlackamusJones]

Probably have to uproot your family and move to a new city every 2 years. We should not have to live like this.

[@teeeteee000]

And you don't have to. Live your life the way you feel, if things change, job wise, family wise or housing wise then adapt to it. Don't let this concept put fear in your head, we can't predict the future. You know yourself, when it's time to evolve.

[@BlackamusJones]

@@HHHPedigrees Completely wrong. Industries disappear from areas.

[@BlackamusJones]

@@teeeteee000 *"And you don't have to"* Not true. A lot of people have to in order to take care of themselves and their families these days. *"if things change, job wise, family wise or housing wise then adapt to it"* That is a ridiculous cope you have there. Uprooting and moving continually is not good for the mental/emotional well being of society. *"Don't let this concept put fear in your head, we can't predict the future. You know yourself, when it's time to evolve."* This is vague, word salad gobbledygook. The economy should be adapting to the people. What we're adapting to right now is our country's abysmal wealth disparity and becoming a second/third world banana republic. We're not adapting to anything good.

[@teeeteee000]

​@@BlackamusJones You dissecting my opinion is very creepy and negative. How I see things may be different to yours but I have the right to my own opinion. Not everyone has the finance, confidence or skills to uproot every 2 years. You make that decision for yourself and only for yourself! NOT because society tells you and shoves it down your throat. What right do you have to say my view is wrong and yours is right? You don't have to agree or be negative about it. Weirdo!

[@EndPoliceBrutailty]

I was thinking the same thing. Unless I want to work for McDonald's and waste 2/3 of my life leaning something I'm very talented and skilled with that no McDonald's in this world could give a hoot about.

[@uganda8956]

I dont know what is going on in non profit sector because it is not competitive in pay. It is sad when retail pays more. There is wage stagnation in non profit. A terrible sector.

[@markfornefeld299]

As a person with autism I can’t really find a good job because employers have bias against people with my disability do you have anything they could help me

[@huwpickrell1209]

​@@jabber1990 you obviously don't understand autism and the extreme difficulties in interview type scenarios communication skills put the ultimate test, something that autistic people can struggle with. I can sympathise fully.

[@ulquiXgrimm]

I wish the Best of luck to you friend, it’s very hard. :(

[@missylks1239]

Which is great and why companies have now put their probation periods as 18 months longs

[@izamalcadosa2951]

Another great video, Bryan!!

[@karenpage5674]

I was with my last boss 12 years 3 companies total of 16 years. He was fired and my position eliminated. 63 years old looking for a job. My network worked I was only out of work 2 weeks. ( 6 weeks severance) my resume was current but I had gotten too comfortable. Yes I thought about retirement but not quite ready and didn’t want to end my career on a sour note. I played the job offer card just once and got a raise. What he didn’t mention is the target you now have for employer. You would be first laid off. Better to just leave in my opinion.

[@skipwerk2251]

Sir! I wish i would have found your site much earlier. I am retired now so i am not looking for a career. I did not work for a pay leader. I worked for a pay lagger. Due to successful negotiating when i was hired my pay was better than otherwise. The latter management did not like this so they hired a consultant to review the wages fo the whole company. Then they informed the technical people that their pay needed reduced. When i refused to agree with the cuts, i think it upset rhe owner of the company. I should have started sending resumes then. But i didnt. Also, my job requirements had changed drastically. I am an engineer by trade. Brfore i retired i was only doing 10 percent engineering work. Thank you very much for this information.

[@anniesshenanigans3815]

the job duty thing hit me. I am a licensed and registered healthcare worker. But so much of what I do isn't doing what I was trained for. It is stressful and frankly a slap in the face at my skills at a couple of jobs I had in the past. The actual job I have now I do far more of my skilled trade than I did at those two other jobs. All that other crap has been foisted on us because employers are too cheap to hire the right people to do it.

[@hazeleyes895]

What about trying to look for a new job after a year if you’re a bit overqualified with your current one?

[@anonymousnearseattle2788]

I did look for a new job two years ago when my employer was mandating the jab, but I held firm, and all their cowardly threats turned out to be empty. I received the largest bonus ever from that same employer this year, so I guess I'm okay there for a while longer.

[@ricardovarela8547]

Great video!! Thanks for sharing. Bryan do you have any plans to make a video taking about freelance? Maybe pros and cons. It would be really interesting to hear your opinion on that area. Thanks!!

[@TheScienceNerddAkemi]

This‼️💯💯

[@29moonlite91]

We actually just had an employer that fought hard to keep my husband, 2 rounds of negotiation, he declined their first offer and they came back with something he couldn't refuse. They have yet to completely follow through, so check back later.

[@drunclecookie216]

every 2 years?? eeek... I've been with the same company for 20 years now. but I also get to work from home now and set my own hours. as long as I put in 40 hours a week they don't care. I can't really find any other company that's willing to let me do that. Plus I'm in a really rural area so it's not like I have a lot of companies to choose from unless I want to move away (which I don't, my house is 2 months away from being paid off).

[@teeeteee000]

Wow! 20 years that's a huge milestone! Congratz! Honestly, the grass is not always greener on the otherside. Don't go looking if you have it good with your current company. Adapt to changes when they happen for you in your own life and in your own time. And trust me, what this company is offering you, is unheard of nowadays.

[@drunclecookie216]

@@teeeteee000 yeah, when I talk to people from other companies they are in complete shock by what my boss allows me to do. My computer isn't even monitored and it's all a trust system. But I also tell them I had a crazy deadline to make once and I worked 30 hours straight with no sleep to meet that deadline. If I'd been working at the office I wouldn't have been able to do that.

[@earthsteward9]

Good advice! You also might stay with the same company and they tell you that you are getting a promotion but basically it is a new job title with the same work as before plus new duties and they only give you a 1% salary increase

[@rachelpatterson2327]

It’s trickier to try to leave every few years when you are base and commission, as an agency Recruiter I have built up a decent amount of commission for contractors that are billing so sometimes you feel like you’re starting over leaving somewhere to just get paid base for a little while until commissions build up again

[@SJones-kk5lg]

What’s the shortest time to stay on a job before applying out ?

[@cpK054L]

2 weeks

[@davidlee9570]

I agree to interview, even at least be aware of what the hot skills are in my area of expertise and also see how far I am in difference, in terms of compensation.

[@wavereader8847]

There's not that many companies to switch that frequently every 1.5 - 2 years in a city. So for 20 years that would be over 10 companies and 10 promotions. Yea that's not realistic for most people. Employers with the same expectations are worse too because after 2 years they'll quiet fire you so you would look for a new job? It's kind of goofy you have to look every two years to avoid being quiet fired. Companies would interview you 3 times and then you still may not get the job and you have to rinse and repeat over the course of several month to a year. I would switch jobs and get promoted every 2-5 years if it was easier to do so.

[@Anonyme67]

I was really hoping for a promotion that never happened in my former company. When I resigned the vice president of my department called me over the weekend (do you believe that?) to offer a higher salary (and I was already making above the market) but I said no, I wanted the promotion. In my new company I am learning new stuff and next year after bonus I will start looking for director or senior director positions. I work full time home as well. But I only work to get the most money possible. I am about to pay off our family home and resume buy rentals cash.

[@ladysparkymartin]

Huh. Interesting. I’ve no interest in shifting. There are definitely problems with my union job not giving me merit pay, but it’s also nice to get category raises. I can take that now at 54. They’re little surprises and that’s cool by me given I’m good with managing my money.

[@anniesshenanigans3815]

This is what has happened to several ex coworkers very recently. Except the higher offers from our company were rebuffed. They left anyway.