Why You Should Use Proxies | The MTG Proxy Controversy

The MTG community often stigmatizes and rejects proxies and proxy users, but most of their reasoning for doing so is flawed. There are tons of benefits to proxying cards in Magic the Gathering and no real downsides! This is why you should use proxies.
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[@scapheap]

Someone else put it in way that perfectly fit my view of proxies: "If someone forbid playing proxies against them, they don't want to fight your skill, they want to fight your bank account."

[@StrataGames]

That's the truth.

[@CarrollLiddell]

I love this....

[@pixelsoldat]

Magic is a strategic game, but also luck is involved. In commander it depends really what kind of playgroup or table you are. Sometimes it's a bit like Rock, Paper, Scissors. Also some commanders are just to powerful even in non-cedh.

[@tylerrobblee8038]

That's some real Setto Kiaba shit. Very wise

[@PeliPelaaja]

I want to have fun times paying and hope you support the LGS so that others can also.

[@duckhuntdynasty6562]

I was under the "I am ok with running the proxy if you own the card" camp, since I have like...14 commander decks. After watching your video, I kind of see why there are flaws in that argument. I do say if one is proxying, I want the proxy to at least look nice vs just words scribbled on the card IF no emergency thing. Art really draws me into the game, and seeing a card with just the name scribbled kind of annoys me and takes me out of it.

[@blessedspaghetti]

i dont even like black and white inkjet proxies. i feel like you can do better that that hahah

[@nkromancerN]

This helped inspire me for the concept of "Alt-art proxies", which are just proxies that are HQ images with alternate custom artwork (maybe different names like Battle Royale), but they are sleeved in with the original card so nobody should be complaining. Hopefully.

[@duckhuntdynasty6562]

@@nkromancerN unlike this idea! Though...since I wrote this I am totally out of the game....Dominaria United literally gave me depression. #saveajani

[@nkromancerN]

@@duckhuntdynasty6562 "unlike" or "i like"?

[@duckhuntdynasty6562]

@@nkromancerN it is almost midnight...I am tired, I like the idea. X3

[@acicon]

I like how you mentioned pretty much every example of people's issues with proxies. This is probably the best video on youtube discussing the subject.

[@toddjohnson1728]

Not at all. The #1 reason that proxies are garbage is because they look like garbage (unless they’re counterfeits). I played Star Wars CCG with Virtual Cards (format-supported cut out slips that fit over “real” cards) for years. It didn’t feel good at all. It was like printing out your whole deck at home. MTG is a visual game. Some people seem to forget this. There’s a reason why people care about foils, sleeves, print versions, etc. Think of it in the reverse. Would you want to play against decks 100% composed of proxies? If you do, why are you buying cards at all?

[@larryrittman5046]

So your #1 reason why other people shouldn’t be allowed to use proxies is because you think they look ugly sitting across the table from you? For one they make some damn good looking proxies now a days. And two how is the aesthetic appeal of a player’s cards any reason to play or not play someone? What if you think Their card sleeves are ugly? Or their playmat? Or their shirt?

[@Gogies777]

@@toddjohnson1728 how old are you?that's one of the weakest reason why you should be a gatekeeper and not welcome those who proxy lol.troll!

[@TCG9777]

@@toddjohnson1728 there wasn't a single argument in your comment

[@C._Bradford]

@@toddjohnson1728 considering how one major reason why people make proxies is to have better looking, alternate art cards this comment makes literally no sense at all.

[@donutmaster0]

I've discovered that most people that give you shit about proxies are not people you'll want to play with again lmao

[@Gigadramon6]

I think the big reason that people tend to be against proxying cards comes down that it makes people question why they bought a legitimate copy in the first place. "If I could have just played this game with proxies, why did I spend $50 on a cardboard rectangle with a monkey on it?"

[@Chillypuwn]

For me I don't buy single cards if they are over 10$ basically. Then I will proxy it. I play casually with a group of friends and nobody minds. WotC can suck a fat dick if they think I will spend 1000$ PER DECK just to play magic casually with a group of friends.

[@salguodnandes4538]

exactly. just hypocrisy as always

[@Eddneton94]

well the point of owning the actual paperback imho is purely collectors value. if you want to play the game for gameplay sake than i believe high quality proxies are the way to go, they should display all info that is relevant, with the artwork but a bigass proxy whatermark on the artwork. everything else is just flaunting your income wiener to me

[@parabot2]

“I’d rather you give your money to me.” -This Wizards peddler

[@JoHn-if6wy]

Proxies arent cheap if well made. Processes have generally improved. High resolution digital artwork is more readily available then ever. With that being said, counterfeits are actually easy to make nowdays. It does require a lot of hard work and time to get the perfect microns of every tcg cards out there. And making counterfeit aint cheap either. Youll need some expensive material and most of all..... an expensive printer. You might even lose a lot of money at the beginning if youre an amateur. But in the end, profit is made. To anyone who has mastered this art craft, you wouldnt even notice any difference and is undistinguishable from a standard card. I wouldnt be surprised if all cards on the internet in a few years are only proxies.

[@jonathannewell7838]

I'm definitely in the pro-proxy group. The secondary market has inflated the prices to the point where Ill never be able to build my decks the way I want them. I never play in tournaments, just EDH with friends so I'm not going to dump thousands of dollars just to have fun. MPC is the way to go

[@roch6640]

If a card is legal in a format, I don't care if my opponent uses a proxy as long as I can read the effects of the card. :) Everyone should have access to all game pieces.

[@subzero308]

I agree 100%

[@Drago-gc5ej]

its not monopoly its a collectable card game.

[@AnhazraxGaming]

​@@Drago-gc5ejWoC says it's a game before a collectable.

[@Drago-gc5ej]

@@AnhazraxGaming Again, its not Uno, its magic the gathering. You haven't challenged my point one bit.

[@AnhazraxGaming]

@@Drago-gc5ej and I doubt any argument would change your stance, and that's quite alright. Have a fantastic day.

[@Joshfortian15]

I have a super compelling point about how proxies actually make all sellers involved a TON of money where they would have made peanuts had the proxier just bought cards that they could afford. MTG is set up perfectly for the 'lite' format of product. U can play proxies casually but u must have a deck with all legitimate cards to enter a tournament. If u proxy, u will be using cards in higher price ranges to test what u like in a deck and while not everyone wishes to enter tournaments, alot of people do and if u proxy a $50 card and realise just how important it is to ur deck, u will always opt to save up for it and buy it eventually. This is the same for every card within a "reasonable" price range for each player, netting sellers and wizards hundreds or thousands of ur dollars over time. If u go budget, u will always be looking for alternative cheaper cards to fit slots that more expensive cards take up. Ur end deck will likely cost less than 300 if that and that will be ur final figure spent for that deck. U have affectively lost wizards and resellers the potential money that u would have saved and spent had u gone the proxy route. It's a 'lite' scheme and I think they may be aware of this fact as when a program or product includes a sampler with some limitations, the potential for the seller to make bank on the full purchase goes through the roof compared to if they had not included it because when u give access to a taste of something, the user then finds reasons they need to spend that money to obtain the full experience. PROXY 4EVR

[@ArenaRat-xd8fu]

Nothing you said was true lol are you like 12 years old or something

[@bananajoe9951]

Even WOTC doesn't support LGS's anymore, all of my local ones have closed or stopped buying MTG as Amazon is just too competitive with prices. So my friends are forced to play at home, and you're damn right they allow proxies now as finding anyone who wants to trade, an LGS that still sells cards, or finding a cheap seller online, is out of the question now.

[@ArenaRat-xd8fu]

Lol what a load of bs

[@FlawlessP401]

I play proxies exclusively. I spent thousands of dollars on cards as a teenager. I am an adult with real life responsibilities and mouths to feed. I could afford to sink my fun money into those cards but I only play for fun with friends randomly. I'm not interested in the market or what people think is strong. I play what I like in the themes I like and see no reason why I can't put together whatever combinations of cards I want to make those strategies happen. I have a proxy volo deck that's like 3k and I've lost to a human precon that has some light upgrades. Probably 45ish added value

[@tonybutler4440]

Similar situation I want to get back into it and looking for some proxy groups to play with.

[@Pryhos]

I was against proxies until this last week. Now, everyone at the shop freely uses proxies. The 30th anniversary opened the floodgates; thanks wotc!

[@ArenaRat-xd8fu]

Keep making up false justifications

[@gubbothehuggo2771]

I find it hilarious that taking money away from WOTC is somehow an argument AGAINST using proxies.

[@ArenaRat-xd8fu]

You realize without wotc there would be no mtg, right?

[@gubbothehuggo2771]

@@ArenaRat-xd8fu Oh no. Anyway.

[@ArenaRat-xd8fu]

@@gubbothehuggo2771 oh no, go get a job

[@Sky-dy4vn]

My group has a dumb rule of "proxies are fine, but if it's too powerful we'll say you can't run it, but if you bought the real card you can"

[@Dubstepticon47]

Get a different group of friends.

[@MNman87]

It makes the game so exclusive to new players too. The idea that your willingness to spend thousands of dollars on cardboard to give you a huge advantage in the game shows that you are insecure as a player and do not want other competition. It should be inclusive to all people who want to be competitive. It should be about skill and not your bank account.

[@AngelusNielson]

Pauper exists for a reason, after all. And drafts and the like.

[@Squidigital]

@@AngelusNielson Your finances shouldn't determine your format.

[@AngelusNielson]

@@Squidigital IF you don't have disposable income magic isn't a game for you at all.

[@Kakerate2]

​@@AngelusNielson I would challenge you to be considerate of people from impoverished countries. 1 USD is ~59 Philippine pesos. Sure, you might say to yourself "Fury is only $32, I can afford this." To them, it's "Well, I only have 1000 peso for non-necessities this month, I wonder if I should pay 1947 peso for a single piece of cardboard, and then gatekeep this hobby from other people who can't do the same". It sounds almost hilariously stupid of a position to take when I put it like this, and yet this is the reality for many players. I would also tell you that we are bordering on an economic recession, so if you want to play with yourself then I think you have the right mindset. However, if your goal is NOT to just play with yourself (there's cheaper ways to do that, you know) then I would tell you to be more intellectually honest with yourself.

[@AngelusNielson]

@@Kakerate2 Magic is a hobby, not a necessity. I mean, I'm well below the poverty line myself and I will never have more than a precon EDH deck and the decks I have on Arena and the boosters I bought. I know what it's like to be poor. And I realize that "Poor" In the US does mean something quite different than "Poor" In the Philippines. But the truth of the matter is that you should not prioritize Magic. And that's not even gatekeeping. Gatekeeping would be "You can't play MTG if you can't afford a 2K USD dollar deck." Play magic. Proxy the entire deck if it's OK with the people you're playing with. I don't mind. But the facts remain, Magic is not a game that you can play "Legitimately" on the cheap.

[@Big-LoFe]

It's just a game and if people can just relate to the fact its about PLAYING the game and not Bullying people out of playing because they don't have 10k to dump on cardstock now. when we all could have the chance to get those cards if revised was still 5$ a pack nd played with the same cards , dnt blame the person who wants to play game blame the market that was created to make a investment. People should be happy that the games still being played.

[@ArenaRat-xd8fu]

You can make a deck for a hundred dollars, stop making excuses. You dont need the strongest cards to play the game

[@Shiftingdead]

I'm about to do a $100 order for 600 proxy cards. Going to print them double sided, can just flip the cards in the sleeve, so basically I'm getting 6-12 commander decks for $100.

[@TiredTimelord]

Big brain proxying there. Did you go through MPC? I have a cube coming from them tomorrow.

[@Shiftingdead]

@@TiredTimelord Yep, MPC. Custom/favorite art on all of them. What took the longest time was actually setting up the order onto the website after I had the autofill images.

[@mentaloasis]

This is a fantastic idea that I hadn't even considered. Thanks for to suggestion!

[@Shiftingdead]

I also swap to basic lands in different play groups, instead of shocks/duals/fetches to 'power down' Same with some other mana rocks and spells. My deck can still retain the game plan/flavor/idea but I play slower due to this and can get mana/color screwed like other players would in cheaper decks.

[@blessedspaghetti]

how is that legal?

[@pixelsoldat]

The fault is on Wizards that cards are to exspensive. The could print more cards like Growing Rites of Itlimoc. It is Sometimes better than the cradle, for example after a boardwipe. It will also flip at the end of turn, in the right Deck or played in the right moment. Also non Reserved List cards are just to exspensive. So I can understand Why people want to play with proxies.

[@AngelusNielson]

Yeah, but how would they do that with reserve list cards?

[@Dr_Robin_Zoro]

@@AngelusNielson they cna just make functional copies with diffrent names.

[@AngelusNielson]

@@Dr_Robin_Zoro No, they can't. They said that the point of the reserve list was to never make those cards in any from again.

[@timer4164]

There are several reserved list cards that are worse than cards currently out

[@subzero308]

The reserved list should have never been a thing in the first place it was just made so 40 year olds wouldn't cry when their pieces of card board got reprinted and lose value... I wish this would just go back to being a game and collectors and investors would just go away lol... I hope someone buys WoTC out and just reprints everything to the ground the real players will stay and the ones who only really just cared about having a retirement plan would leave.

[@goose95722]

I only consider getting a proxy if the card I'm looking for costs more than $10. I understand that competitive cards with limited printings cost a lot of money, especially since a lot of people are collectors. But if I want to play Sliver EDH, I don't have the money for a single $300 copy of Sliver Queen. That's more than a month's worth of food for me! So yeah, buy cards if you can afford them, proxy if you can't. The point of a game is to have fun.

[@ArenaRat-xd8fu]

And do think losing is fun lol

[@AleksandrWins]

Here's one I heard recently: It's ok to use a proxy if you're going to a friend's house to play, but not if you're going to casually play those same friends at the LGS. What???

[@StrataGames]

Makes SO much sense!

[@maxleveladventures]

Thanks for making this video. I’ve been putting off the urge to make some proxies for a few staples and some jank decks I want to try. I’m never going to spent more than $10 on a card. I just don’t make enough money. The most basic, necessary cards in a deck cost more than that and everyone is playing them. So I either handicap myself because I’m poor-which is objectively less fair and fun, or I make a couple fakes to just enjoy the game I love to play. WotC and LGS have already made more money from me than any other game I’ve ever played-by far. I’m not a collector and I shouldn’t have to be rich to play a game made of fucking paper. I’m here to support the designers, artists and printers, but I’m not buying into purposeful scarcity so some execs can get a bigger bank account (because you know that extra money isn’t going to the designers, artists, or printers). If they start reprinting staples in a way that makes them affordable for the poors (e.g. not reprinting them in Secret Lairs or legal unsets that end up costing more than the original versions) then I’ll buy those cards.

[@jotru271]

THIS ^^^^.... This is real talk!

[@AngelusNielson]

Watch Commander's Quarters. You can make a powerful fun non-jank deck on a budget. All you gotta do is be willing to play something outside of the meta.

[@alexandrbatora9674]

@@AngelusNielson or he can print proxies

[@LunarPhoenix139]

​@@AngelusNielsonalternative he played the deck he designed with proxies

[@AngelusNielson]

@@LunarPhoenix139 Not the point. The point is you can play a fun game of commander without spending a fortune and without proxies.

[@ryanseazon]

Great video! As someone looking into creating proxies, this is reassuring. I will say you missed one other reason for having proxies, which is to have fun custom art on your cards!

[@StrataGames]

Great point!

[@jushthehermit]

I ordered beautiful proxies for duo lands, and I absolutely love playing with them so much, because they are FUN. Also, I didn't have to drop $200 for a Plateau, or $700 for an Underground Sea! And I have 14 commander decks, so I don't even want to think about multiple copies!

[@frenchertoast]

My country has almost no LGC's (and they're definitely not "local") and some people still aren't willing to play with proxies!

[@StrataGames]

Well hopefully this video convinces them!

[@leaveemfaceless9629]

Dang that's a clever way to say some people are idiots and shouldn't be in charge of finances

[@mrmrmeta3698]

A strange thing I’ve seen is that competitive players have more kindness to proxies, especially more recent players as they see that you can’t be putting a mana crypt in ever cedh deck

[@acksawblack]

Obviously? Competitive players play for the game mechanics not for the collection. Every other competitive esport and chess would be outraged at magics business model. Imagine if I’m chess you could buy alternative pieces that give you more options. Or if there was a hero in league and Dota that cost 200 dollars more than the rest. Magic is literal pay to win for competitive players. When all things are equal(skill, meta knowledge) the player with access to superior options will win.

[@subzero308]

​​@@acksawblackamazingly put i agree 100%... I play mostly modern have 5 top tier decks (only say top tier cause those r most of the time consider the "expensive decks") 3 r fully foiled and 2 legacy decks and i welcome proxies with open sleeves... I play magic for the competitiveness and fun not for a retirement plan... If i bust out my foiled dimir shadow deck and someone sits down across with a 4c control deck fully proxied i don't even care because i kno im gonna get the same fun and competitiveness as i would if they had "real" pieces of cardboard... This is a game first for me and these game pieces r out of control priced smh. I still love buying them tho lol and playing.

[@ArenaRat-xd8fu]

Cedh isnt competitive lol

[@Lightspeed12309]

It is literally called competitive EDH bro

[@ArenaRat-xd8fu]

@Lightspeed12309 congrats on thinking that something that isnt competitive is competitive lmao if mtg was competitive then thered be far more consistentcy in who places 1st. Card games have this thing called luck of the draw lol welcome to reality

[@AngelusNielson]

In my experience, anti-proxy players tend to actually own the cards in question. They're just salty. And in the worse case, they're just mad that they can't wipe the floor with you.

[@jeffsanders5444]

yea , mad cuz bad. also if you have a really expensive deck its not smart to be walking around with it or playing it tbh because one mis shuffle could devalue your deck by 1000$. idk about you but im not handing jimmy my 4000$ deck for a cut....

[@AngelusNielson]

@@jeffsanders5444 I would never own a 4k deck and if I did it'd be all used cards and/or proxies most likely. If I had that kind of spare cash for fun money I'd be buying a high-end computer and probably investing the other half.

[@subzero308]

​@@jeffsanders5444they're just pieces of card board lol... Somebody cutting ur deck isn't gonna hurt it smh just double sleeve/triple sleeve it problem solved.

[@ArenaRat-xd8fu]

They can though lol of youre going to play them you need magic cards, not counterfeits. Im sure if you go buy real cards theyll have no problem playing you, win or lose.

[@ArenaRat-xd8fu]

@@AngelusNielsonhigh end computer to go pirate stuff probably lol

[@samachu09]

The only times I don't approve of proxies are: 1) It's just a name and info on a bit of paper. I'm not gonna play against someone that won't bother at least making visual copies of cards...unless I trust that the individual presents honest information and want me to help out. 2) The proxy has been edited such as increased attack, health or other information. Obviously. 3) If it's an official tournament but I'm sure it's against their rules too.

[@StrataGames]

Neither 1) and 2) are proxies if the information is being presented incorrectly. That's just cheating

[@warp9988]

Can we just say this: Some magic players really want to feel special because they have enough money to throw $3500 at pieces of cardboard and not have to worry about paying rent or buying food. Does that make them special? Or does it make them …. Conceited.

[@kamakaze7187]

Me and my buds got together and built a vintage cube out of 100% proxies. Best thing ever

[@Blacksunstoneful]

Proxies are super important in vintage games, because a solid vintage deck in real MTG cards can cost you at the cheapest, $17,000+ add any of the power 9 in there and it's easily the price of a new sports car. In any vintage game I highly expect most cards being proxies because it's the only format that allows a full range of theorycrafting

[@NoahRobertson-w4b]

Not to mention vintage decks can grow legs if you don't watch them like a psyche ward orderly.

[@ActionCow69]

​@@NoahRobertson-w4bYeah, even if i can afford the power 9 or whatever, why the hell would i play a game with those cards and risk them getting damaged, lost, or stolen?

[@garregalen83]

Well done. Im a new player and is now looking to make proxy deck to try to find out what i like to play.

[@Phiz787]

The greatest argument I suppose, is that you're buying into a game. When someone invests in the game they like, they feel cheated to find that someone else gets access to the same game for pennies on the dollar. Sort of like boosting in video games, or free to play private servers. In this way, proxies undermine the enjoyment of curating rare or sought after cards. That being said, I don't particularly enjoy that argument, because gatekeeping is a feelsbad 100% of the time. And in the long run, we ALL BENEFIT from having more players to enjoy the game we love to play. So while I do understand those who naysay proxies, I find that the opportunity for more people to play the (same high level of) game is fundamentally more important.

[@Drago-gc5ej]

You never achieve any level of consistency like this. It's not sustainable in its current form. We don't give you Robotic legs so that you can compete in the NBA at the highest level. If you wanted to get into the hobby of basketball, the reasonable expectation is that you get together and play some pick-up games at the park starting out. Maybe once you understand better you go get name brand shoes and join a team where you'll find stricter rules than street ball like you're used to. However if you're always encouraged to play rough while you're learning, when you get to the actual competition you'll soon realize its not a viable strategy to constantly foul people. *Encouraging new players to manufacture their own game pieces is detrimental to the core competitive nature of a CCG.* It strips all competitive integrity from the game. People can enjoy the game just fine and have plenty of fun without the absolute min-maxed strategies a format can offer. Growing up did we ever have the MOST EXPENSIVE decks with the MOST OPTIMAL strategies? No, and we had heaps of fun. So much in fact, that here I am defending the game all this time later. It's a result of living in the age where every competitive strategy (especially in video games) is optimized and if you're short of that then you are just throwing. Playing against the most optimal strategies wouldn't be a widespread issue if using fake cards wasn't such a normalized thing. I mean at what point do we draw the line? Would we go pay to draft a randomized proxy set some guy came up with, even if you're pro-proxy? No, because there's no consumer faith that the game works or value in that. The only time people proxy is because they feel entitled to an experience, even though they aren't. It robs from the experience of those who follow the rules.

[@koops6899]

​@@Drago-gc5ejcrybaby

[@teafresch7837]

Id rather play against a proxy deck than an expensive one. The rich folk can make their excuses, but at the end of the day if their argument is just save your money and buy them, they dont know what its like to be poor and hungry. If their argument is use cheaper less effective cards then the game wont be fair. Also, im not going to owe somebody thousands of dollars if I spill some water. Leave that crap at home and proxy it so nobody has to worry if you lose a card or one gets rekt. The only no proxy play groups that make sense are ones that are fresh to the game and only have cards in the current rotation

[@ArenaRat-xd8fu]

Youre the one making excuses lol

[@ChrisJohnson-vi3ed]

I'm fine with proxying as long as one doesn't try to trade/sell the card as if it were a real card.

[@animeking1357]

I'm quite okay with proxies. I would just hope that the proxy is a print of the actual card and not the white rectangle one. At least that way you can tell what the card is when you look at your opponent's board.

[@rbarnes9938]

Pretty late to this video, but I think it comes down to what I've seen others say as well: "I'd rather play against your ability, not your wallet."

[@Lee_Bode]

I'm still waiting for counterfeits that are indistinguishable from the originals. That's how I want this industry to crash. WotC has been in contempt from the moment they introduced mythic rares.

[@MrAskmannen]

I just ordered 6 full commander decks in the 612 card package on MPC, super excited to finally be able to use dual lands

[@AngelusNielson]

How does it feel to be part of the problem?

[@MrAskmannen]

@@AngelusNielson I dont play them against decks in normal budgets, never have. Me and a friend play the broken decks i got on MPC against each other, fun to play 9 and 10 powerlevel against an equally powerful deck.

[@AngelusNielson]

@@MrAskmannen You're still driving demand for more powerful cards, therefore more expensive on the secondary market cards. It's a cycle that will only stop when the demand for a card or cards drops.

[@jeffsanders5444]

@@AngelusNielson u mad cuz bad . its ok lil bro 💀, just say you suck at the game and only win cuz of your wallet.

[@jeffsanders5444]

@@AngelusNielson u mad cuz bad . its ok lil bro 💀, just say you suck at the game and only win cuz of your wallet.

[@WoodWisp]

I'm totally ok with proxies, as long as it's just not a mountain with the name of the card written on it. I'm a visual person and I don't want to pull up what each card does every time they play something

[@TerryTags]

The REAL cyclonic rift is the one in the brain of the person to whom you're asking this question: "If you're okay with me proxying a card that I already own, does that mean you're okay with me proxying a card that my friend already owns, but he would have let me borrow if he wasn't using it at that time?" The swirling mental gymnastics in their poor brains as they undoubtedly melt and say, "Wait, what?" Haha, that's my favorite part of this video!! lol

[@StrataGames]

The real mental gymnastics are done by those who won't accept proxies. :)

[@serse8455]

When you have assholes in your playgroup, a stance of "mostly no proxies" is usually good enough to avoid unfun experiences. I'm building a mostly proxied cube tho

[@StrataGames]

I just try not to play with assholes

[@wwfof]

Proxies are 100% good for the game as long as they aren't allowed in official tournaments obviously.

[@ArenaRat-xd8fu]

They literally do nothing good for the game and are only bad for the game

[@epsilondelta69420]

My interest in this game comes and goes and the main reason why it (always) goes is because cards are too expensive. Wizards and their anticonsumer practices ensured that I will not purchase their products or their (expensive) cards. Instead I will purchase proxies going forward. Thanks for the video. I enjoyed all your points.

[@ArenaRat-xd8fu]

Anticonsumer? Get a job

[@AnhazraxGaming]

WoC says they don't care if you use proxies, everyone should be able to play regardless of wallet size! ❤

[@TheUncleRuckus]

I say screw Wizards of the Coast/Hasbro, taking money out their pockets is a great thing.

[@artboistudios5409]

I’ve played on spell table and the first thing some ppl ask is if there are any proxies, and if 1 or 3 of us say yes that person tends to leave saying they refuse to play against proxies, it’s honestly just a childish thing if you really think about it

[@apostle33328]

I play solely proxy decks and also play decks with a mix or non-proxy and proxy decks, If that card exists, is allowed in the format, in my eyes its fair game. Someone commented to that "Your not playing against my skill, your playing against my wallet" and that was real TBH. I would like to note I show "Homage" when I go to any LGS, buy some booster packs, maybe a box if the cash is favorable that month and is my common spot, so that I can also support the Business in some way, as if you know anything about the business of running a LGS, it can be a nightmare, so I like to pitch in to those who provide us with the environment to play in. But yeah I'm pro-proxy for sure, you can see a lot of fun decks too just because of people having proxies, also people who think that it effects local LGS and WOTC are wrong, people are always buying cards on demands for most commonly to play or to collect.

[@StrataGames]

Exactly. Pro-proxy does not mean anti-LGS

[@appeardead]

As someone whos used tons of proxies in my modern decks because of the insane climbing price of cards, ive still spent thousands of dollars at my local game store over the years

[@ArenaRat-xd8fu]

On trash food and drinks? You clearly lack discipline

[@akisora69]

what are some websites for proxies.. im trying to build a scarecrow deck and some cards are on the expensive side

[@TheGreatDudist]

I personally think it's a dick move to rule out proxies. Contest their bank account instead of their skills. I'm against pay-to-win in EVERY aspect. But I also hate the sweaty nerd "counter-points" you pointed out. "Heh snort heh. But WHAT IF I buy the card from a friend for a dollar and then blahblahblahmydicksobigblahblah". You and me and everyone else knows EXACTLY what the "if you own a copy" rule means. Anyone who argues is arguing a shitty rule with equally shitty logic.

[@tylerrobblee8038]

Aww you guys don't wanna play my proxy Amulet deck :( Wanna play my real $1400 UW Control deck instead ;)

[@ArenaRat-xd8fu]

Yeah, thats not scary

[@gankgoat8334]

Hey just saw your video and let me just add another reason why proxies are good. They are less of a finacial risk. A lot of people treat these cards as an investment and it is easy to get swept up in it. So when something happens to an expensive card it can be heart breaking. But with a proxy the risk is minimal and there is a serious reduction in stress.

[@subzero308]

If ur stressing over pieces of cardboard u need help 😂.

[@bluelink44]

Do you have a video detailing where/how you got your card stock proxies?

[@StrataGames]

Not at the moment.

[@BattleAxeRX]

I have money for jeska's will, but i can't justify spending 30 on a card that's basically unbalanced on purpose as an incentive for consumers to buy an entire deck of cards where the card is... I'm just... good and will still want to try the card without looking at that little piece of paper.

[@Cynidecia]

The thing is that on spite the fact i can proxy am entire deck, but magic hasn't been worth playing for a long time, so why bother

[@jish55]

in commander, I have a rule where if I already own an expensive card, that instantly get's the proxy treatment so that I can have that card in the decks I need without having to pay an arm and a leg (and I make sure it looks like a legit magic card so that way it's easier to use). If I don't own the real card, I proxy cards that are at least $50.

[@vazovazio9231]

the reason why me and my friends are playing MTG again is because of proxies.

[@Katsumotouchija123]

If i owned LG'S i for sure let people play with proxies cEDH and legacy why simple the 2 formats are expensive, would eliminate theft problems and people would be able to play there old cards and not damage them, wear on any kind of cards is a problem. There is a group that wants to play legacy sure i would run a non sanctioned tournament for them also not just for MTG old games like VS system, duel masters, legend of the five rings and so many others

[@andreaslion5877]

pretty much this. My local LGs hosts legacy and vintage with full proxied decks allowed, because nobody would show up with real decks. Vintage had like 1 or 2 players with actual decks. And guess what, a ton of people showed up and had a fucking blast, especially the people who owned the real decks, because they had the opportunity again to play in their favorite format. let's be real, to 99.9 % of players that don't already own all the cards, legacy and vintage will never be an option if no proxies are allowed

[@chamllis]

I say for tournaments probably shouldn’t proxy but for anything else no one should argue you shouldn’t proxy especially if you get some people who want to try a format like vintage but you don’t have a down payment on a house.

[@taylorbates4742]

For tournaments you 100% shouldn't proxy as it is against the rules.

[@nickw3569]

Unsanctioned tournaments are the solution to this problem. This way you can support your LGS while still getting to play competitive magic. If the only requirement for play was to have access to a printer (or a marker) then you make this game way more accessible. Making it more accessible is how you develop a stronger gaming community.

[@Kakerate2]

@@taylorbates4742 implying they can even care

[@Aigis31]

"Finding alternatives until you can afford the best in slot card, basically meaning the journey is more important than the destination" is a really funny argument, since we know at least 50% of the player base uses EDHREC on the daily and rarely plays with intentionally worse cards nowadays

[@AlsonamedDennis]

I strongly dislike proxies. But, after the recent commander bannings, I've completely changed my mind. I'm not even sure I'll keep one copy.

[@CreedComander]

i always proxy a new deck untill i worked out the kinks then i will buy any $5 or less cards but still proxy anything above the 20$ range until i can buy them all. My LGS is cool about it too only requiring proxies be represented by the dual sided tokens while playing any buy in tournament game. Usually by the time im playing a deck in a semi competitive setting there is maybe 5 proxies max in the whole deck and they will likely be 30$+ cards.

[@garrettschrepfer7659]

i am still in the camp of using proxies if you have the at least 1 copy. reason being, I love the game and am 100% about playing against strategies and not bank accounts. but if proxies are okay, what is now stopping me from selling my entire collection and just buying a cheap version of the game? There are many reasons to proxy. and I even like the idea of proxying to test out a card in a casual format. but in general for me, I need to own the actual card first because I worked hard for what I have now and take pride in the collection. If I just start making proxies of everything, all my work is worthless. just my take.

[@leaveemfaceless9629]

Garrett I'm sorry but if you are dumb enough to spend rent car note and a month worth of food on colorful cardboard I can't feel sorry for your quote on quote...hard work. Hard work is cutting the grass building something looking online to spend money isn't hard work you are just gullible and spend hard earned cash on colorful cardboard that most likely you can't even sell for the price you bought it at

[@yellaturd]

Yugioh managed to somehow have affordable reprints yet retain value in practically the same card but an older printing. Magic and WOTC has been getting worse and worse so I'm going the proxy route now.

[@CatManThree]

It really just depends on who you are playing with. Proxies are used entirely within casual settings and formats, and as such whether or not a table or player is comfortable with someone using them is something that can be easily resolved through discussion or simply going to another table. Casual games are leniant and varied by nature.

[@jeramyahrussell2784]

We run proxies in our pod. We don't expect anyone to pay $300 for a dual land, even though some of us own them. Some of us have huge collections and the new players don't. It helps even the field. We just request that you aren't lazy about it and if you win with a "proxy deck" you just put it away for a while. We all buy our sleeves, playmats, deckboxes and packs at the LGS even though we could get them online cheaper. It's about respect and consent, proxy away kids.

[@joshuaweber4158]

A big reason why I like proxys is because were able to get commanders and creatures of certain videogames or movies that magic has never had a crossover with and i think its fine as long as you dont have a lot of proxy decks but i want a uncharted deck and needed a card with nathan on it and my girl got a dark sould deck with the creature been bosses of the game as long as you dont have all your decks as proxys i could see the appeal of them in that stand point.

[@NeonDisciple]

I play the game not just because its fun with friends, but I just like the art, themes, and stories really. So with that, the proxies have to look nice and no power 9 type cards

[@Donmegamuffin]

I'm 100% in the pro-proxy group with one exemption: I don't like counterfeits, or ones that are attempting to look like genuine cards. It must be obvious - alternate artwork or styling, or completely different backing is good enough for me! So often I'd like to try a deck or some janky bizarre wincon deck and it'd be far too expensive to build and try every single one. So I just print the cards, throw them infront of some basic lands and sleeve up! Often, they're good fun once, but then I've got it out of my system instead of wondering: "What if...?"

[@ArenaRat-xd8fu]

All proxies are counterfeits

[@jessecollingwood1002]

I have a high tier edh deck with 4 proxies in it. I found them online and they are pretty damn hard to tell apart from the real cards. So the next argument becomes go ahead and play proxies with no issue if your play group has no idea they are even proxies 🤷

[@toxichulk1124]

Even though I've heard every excuse you've mentioned about being for or against proxies, and you will always find someone that's highly against them, I don't feel like people in general care and will allow others to play with them. There are quite a few that use them at my LCS. Now I think where the real issue lies is where you are playing in a competitive event where you are using tournament rules that state proxies are not allowed, or even if that's wasn't the case, let's just say everyone put out money twords prize support for the event and it was made to where everyone walked out with something. And then here comes this person walking in with a mostly proxied deck tuned to win the event. I believe that's completely unfair to everyone else who worked hard on making there deck for that event. Because just like you said a cheap deck doesn't mean bad deck. So even though I believe proxies are cool in most situations, they don't belong in events or tournaments where money or prize support is on the line.

[@msbeccafae]

My LGS has had unsanctioned prize supported Legacy events where you can bring in X amount of a proxies but then the other cards are real. Usually it’s like 8 or 12 proxies are allowed. So like four original duels, four Forces, and then four something else. In their experience, it’s brought more people in, had greater deck diversity, and some folks still used no proxies because that’s how they preferred to play. My local university’s Magic club has done the same thing with some modern events. Both of these events had prize support and it’s only helped support those communities rather than hurting them.

[@toxichulk1124]

@@msbeccafae yes, this would definitely be they way to do it when it comes to proxies. Putting everyone on the same playing field. Everyone being allowed 8 to 12 is pretty good allowing them to use good cards that are expensive or hard to get ahold of. I hope I didn't come off like I was completely against proxies. My point was mainly for sanctioned events or prize events where you put yourself at a clear advantage by have mainly a proxied deck purposely tuned to win said event. Now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that if people at my local LGS new this that they probably wouldn't have a deck or two that would beat said proxy deck, but let me throw an example of a scenario at you. So let's say we are doing a commander THG event with a box of commander Legends collectors edition up for first prize and you have other packs or stuff up for grabs for 2nd 3rd and so on. If you have 8 to 12 players, you looking at 50$ to 70$ or more for buy in. That's a lot of money. And everyone has agreed to using decks they have. Then here comes a person with a 100% proxied, let's say, tergrid deck. This person has but themselves in a position where he has an advantage on others especially the ones who have worked hard to just have a lv 5 or 6 deck. And here this person is with one of the top decks in commander both for it's play and how annoying it to play against. THG is about working with your teammate and building decks that work together. This would make things unbalanced and throw the fun out the window.

[@Taeerom]

@@toxichulk1124 Why do you have an advantage using proxies in a tournament? Or rather, what advantage can you get by proxying, that you can't get by just being rich? A tournament should be a contest based on how good you are, not a contest about being able to buy the best deck. Proxies allow everyone to test their skills at both playing magic and metagaming wihtout having to shell out for completely new decks every week, as the meta shifts. A proxied deck only has an advantage against non-proxied deck, if the non-proxied deck is built with a budget constraint and not the best version of the deck possible. But this is the same problem as someone being able to spend more than others on magic. The fair solution is to level the playing field by letting everyone have the best deck possible, not by letting some people just straight up pay to win.

[@toxichulk1124]

@@Taeerom If you would read my entire comment and not just focused on my one example, you would of seen where i myself dont care if you use proxies or not. I use them all the time especially when I want to preserve a expensive card or cant afford to make 2, 3, 6 copies said card. so if you are someone who plays with proxies and the group you in doesnt mind then go ahead play with them. but when it comes to the argument of tournaments, there are rules against them for a reason. No matter what competitive field you talk about, card games, video games, sports you are never just given the win, you earn it. and in some circumstances the equipment you use is just as important as the skill of the player. The whole point is to buy packs trade cards and build the decks. ya does it suck sometimes the someone thats rich can do that way more often, ya sure. but thats just how the world works and you cant be upset that there are people richer than you out there. Im poor, have bills, a child. but i still have fun. plus having a expensive deck doesnt mean you have a good deck. all and all if you play with proxies go ahead. but just remember if you didnt have the technology to make proxies what would you do then. spending money on what you like supports the company that makes it. so no matter your opinion on big companies or corporations, spending money keeps magic around.

[@jaythomas8616]

@@Taeerom There needs to be a balance. I completely agree that the cost of some cards (and the cost of making a competitive deck in general) is bordering on the absurd, but if WoTC doesn't make money, then they stop making the game we love. From a philosophical standpoint, I completely agree but from a pragmatic perspective, if we go too hard into proxies as a community, we could be the death of MtG. I still use one or two for completely unreasonable costs, but I try to keep it to a minimum.

[@coltonmason8290]

I used to be in the mindset of you can play a proxy if you own the card, but with the constant rise in price of cards I'm definitely coming around to them.

[@DanielAbeleira]

So... Any tips on how to make or where to get proxies?

[@StrataGames]

If you want cardstock proxies, you can find them online pretty easily. I won't mention the one I used for the cards I mentioned in the video, as I did not have a good experience and would not recommend them. But if you want to be even cheaper, you can just use a colored printer and regular paper, and if you don't own one, local libraries will often have a printer, or you can go to a Staples-like business. You can even swap out regular paper for adhesive labels, cut them out, and stick them to old MTG cards for a permanent, nice-looking, and cheap option. As for how to make them, depending on the route you go, you'll either need to send card images to the business or align them in a way they'll print at a proper size (2.5 inches by 3.5 inches) on a sheet of paper (9 cards can fit on a single sheet, 3 by 3).

[@seanflanagan9675]

There's a few videos online on how to make them. I learned from of them to go to ms paint. Hold control and e and set the parameters to 2016 by 2808. Then go to scryfall and copy the image of the cards you want and paste them into paint. You then move them so that they are just right, fitting 3 cards a row with 3 rows. You then can email those images to [e-mail]. from there you go to your local fed ex office and use their self serve machines to print them out. You have to carefully cut them out with their papercutter. At first it can be a time consuming process to figure out the technique and you will most likely mess a few cards up. Then you take some scissors and cut the tips to make them rounded like a magic card. After all is said and done you can slide them in front of your preexisting cards in sleeves without glue because glue is another hard process and sometimes takes away the quality. If you ask to print out at the front desk I've had them be slightly larger than a traditional magic card but has slightly better quality, wouldnt recommend that. The youtube video is by Edwin the Magic engineer.

[@DanielAbeleira]

@@seanflanagan9675 Thank you very much.

[@brentonzurheide6925]

@@DanielAbeleira Google "MPC Autofill" and follow the instructions on their guide. It's a website/program that can help you set up an order with makeplayingcards.com, they're a playing card printing press out of China and can make nearly perfect proxies for 20-30 cents a card printed on actually cardstock. You can also use any art (just be careful about copyright) you want, and the internet is oozing with amazing custom arts for you to choose from.

[@anoni2189]

I always ask the group if they're ok. My 1st reason would be I dont play at tournaments anymore. 2nd since I dont play at official games I wont add to the demand of those who do and affect the increase of price or scarcity of much needed cards. 3rd Trading and Stocks, Im bad at it. 4rth Im casual player, im here for the jank synergies, big creatures, questionable choices; Not those 2 card autowin combos

[@davidlayton4310]

I like how you put it im going to proxie deck i intend on putting together in real cards. As you said i want to fine tune the deck and i dont wamma spend 700 dollars doing that. Im fine with proxies as long as your not just doing to blow out all the other decks with CEDH. I just want to have fun and play the game.

[@shigydiggy4793]

I literally cannot play MTG unless I am proxying

[@ArenaRat-xd8fu]

Yes you can, you just refuse to use weaker cards

[@snarlbuckle]

When I bring a real deck that I spent $200 on and someone else brings a college printer special representing $3000+, we aren't playing the same game. I am working with constraints that they are not.

[@WladcaPodziemia]

Finally, somebody saying that me buying card for 100$ on CardMarket is in no way supporting my LGS where I would still go and play, even with 1$ proxy and sepnt same cash there on some drinksand fancy sleeves.

[@jadestory8410]

Im one of those folks who wants to have a real version of the card before using a proxy, save some few exceptions (things like shadowborn apostle, relentless rats, dragons approach, commons that are 5$ a pop for no real reason) and its ENTIRELY a pride thing. Its about keeping my decks at the same level as my pod, its about feeling good in owning a real version of those cards. Its about being happy to have the real thing, and celebrating the pulls, or the buy with fancier artwork proxies. Its emotional, rather than a moral issue, if you wanna proxy a whole deck, id like to look at it to see if its the kind of deck Id like to play against, but honestly I dont care.

[@agrenman]

Something to add: technically all cards are proxies. When you play a card, you arent actually playing a card, you are playing the representation of a game piece. All cards are just stand ins for the game piece they represent, and since proxies are the stand ins for the cards that represent those game pieces, you are technically not violating rules, since it still ends up representing that game piece. Also, i dont actually know why proxies arent allowed in tourneys. If a card that you bring in has too much damage on it, they will just allow you to swap it for a proxy in many sanctioned events anyways, and even aside from that, with how expensive formats like modern are right now, you may as well be playing tourneys online or with proxies. I do get it to an extent though, sometime its just easier to not allow proxied cards.

[@thiccboicory9964]

As someone that dose proxy i own most of them real copys but I rather play the skills not the budget. Just rule zero talk to people my one thing i ask is make sure everything is on it information and mana cost and what not. I like that proxys let that newer player try new cards deffently if you build it and not end up liking it. Another point i like is i rather spend 20 to 30 on some nice proxys and have money for bills and snacks.

[@keywacat]

The lads I play with are fine with a proxy Savannah, Wheel of Fortune, even Gaea's Cradle as one is just mana-fixing, one can help everyone at the table (barring Nekusar) and the last is powerful, but just enables whatever broken thing one was going to do anyway. What they do NOT like is proxy Nether Void, Humility, Invoke Prejudice, cards that gum up the game state or really wreck several people's game plans all at once. That line of thinking is also why we don't play mass land destruction, except for the dick that runs Jhoira once in awhile, but the other lads usually come at me for it.

[@raustzeal4212]

My LGS put out this statement yesterday: "Public service announcement! Sorry but proxies are now no longer allowed at tues and fri events. Because these are sanctioned events now and promos are being given out, players are not allowed to use proxies. If you own the card, please use them, it is not acceptable to have a proxy in your deck even if you own the card and its in a folder etc. If you are concerned about ppl damaging cards, please explain before the game starts that you have expensive cards and ppl should ask what they do and not manhandle your things. WOTC have spoken to store owners about this. Please do not endanger my official play status as we would lose promos, prereleases and the ability to run events, thank you in advance." was good while it lasted....

[@Gogies777]

Most of WOTC pricing on precon decks are based off of secondary market ,if they really do not do this practice(not dictating the price on secondary market as they claim) and release products that are based off the top 5 meta decks people use for a price of a pioneer prebuild decks then it will stop the necessity to proxy.Their print quality has gone done the drain too as ali express mtg cards are like almost identical and would pass even some basic tests.

[@ToastytheWulf]

There's this pervasive idea that allowing proxies will necessarily make casual formats like commander more competitive, and not only is this idea flawed because it assumes that only the wealthy and well off should be allowed to play high level commander, but also ignores that the freedom proxying offers goes both ways. Before proxying decks, I would never pay for a deck under $700-800, why would I spend my hard earned money on cards that are barely playable compared to the cards I could have if I just saved up for a few months? Now thanks to proxies, I have a wide variety of power levels because I don't have to feel bad about spending money on cardboard anymore. Before I would never waste my money on a $200 deck that would hardly win a single game, now Anhelo Spell Copy Mill is one of my favorite decks and it's complete garbage, but I love my garbage boy. Proxying doesn't just make the game more accessible to those who can't afford good cards, it removes the need to make hard financial decisions and allows people who would normally be far more selective with their purchases to play with lame cards no one would ever buy. I have a $100 dragon tribal deck that I built just for fun as a personal deck building challenge, if I had to spend money on it, that deck wouldn't exist because the individual cards are just not worth buying. Also just a personal anecdote: I've never met a proxy player who didn't have a range of decks at different power levels nor have I heard anyone complaining about proxies ever site and example of a time a proxy player pubstomped them. Not saying it doesn't happen, but it seems like a largely hypothetical situation that doesn't actually happen very often. Not to tip the scale too much here, but the only time I've had a player walk away from a game frustrated over my proxies was a game where I clearly communicated what my deck was (Malcolm/Kediss pirate combo), what power level it was at (around an 8, maybe tickling at 9), what combo pieces to look out for (even explaining the glinthorn combo, the strongest combo in the deck, in explicit detail), and even pointing out that I was only proxying the deck until I could purchase all the cards, with most of the more expensive pieces already having been purchased by that point, all before he even selected his deck. He got crushed and said "I wouldn't even be this upset if the cards were real" as if he couldn't request that I play a lower power deck prior to starting the game. It was literally just an "I'm salty and I wanna undercut your win" comment.

[@ArenaRat-xd8fu]

Youre just making excuses. Guess we should just start counterfeiting money too then right, it follows your ridiculous argument

[@ToastytheWulf]

@@ArenaRat-xd8fu Well I'm a communist so the idea of invalidating capital isn't exactly unappealing to me, but regardless of that I don't exactly get what you're saying here. Are you upset that I'm not financially supporting game stores/WotC when I make proxies? Because as stated, those were cards I was never going to buy in the first place. If I couldn't play with those cards for free, I would just not have made those decks. It's the piracy paradox. Despite not spending money on the product, pirates usually do not cost companies much money because the people who pirate weren't going to bother buying whatever they pirated anyway. If you weren't willing to pay $60 for a video game, pirating that game was never going to seriously harm the creator because you weren't gonna buy it in the first place, you just would have chosen not to play it at all instead. If this isn't what you meant with your comment, then I apologize I guess but I just don't really know what point you're trying to make, card games and money are two very different things and so the comparison feels weird.

[@ArenaRat-xd8fu]

@@ToastytheWulf im not reading all that lol you said youre a communist so clearly youre an ignorant bum. I dont listen to ignorant people or bums

[@ArenaRat-xd8fu]

@@ToastytheWulf youre a communist, so youre ignorant and a bum

[@DNYLNY]

I’m for proxies mostly but it does remove the trading card aspect of a collectible trading card game. I enjoy hunting down a specific card or finding a gem in a booster pack. Making your own cards completely takes away that thrill for me but I understand all the reasons why ppl do it.

[@ThePopeSquad]

I'm a huge proponent of proxies; magic shouldn't be about whoever can pay the most to win their games. Proxies allow players to compete whether or not they have thousands to spend on meta decks. The only stipulation I have for proxies is that they need to be clearly identifiable for what the card is/does. I prefer to own real copies of my cards when I can afford to, but having multiple decks for the variety for myself or to lend to other players really helps with game variety and with some cards costing hundreds of dollars it'd be unfair for some players to just not have access to certain tools or strategies because they can't afford them. Love your take and arguments!

[@hman6159]

Also if your cards get stolen you don’t go broke

[@evansalmonsen]

I just got back into magic and bought two proxy decks . One that would of costed $600 and one that would of costed $2000 The sole reason being so that I can keep up at my LGS during causal play with people who have decks they use competitively My main thought is why would my opponent care in causal play if I’m using proxies? They care that much if I am $600 poorer but have the same cards? I certainly couldn’t ever afford these decks

[@535Salomon]

Where I am from we hardly find "playing cards" (those ones you mostly play at casinos) and if one day I want to play MTG then the only way to do so is by creating proxies. I am making my own hanafuda deck :)

[@StrataGames]

Whatever works for you!

[@rockguy9022]

I've spent soooo much on cards in the past. Even now I must dropped almost $1k to build my standard and edh deck. Some of which were proxies now. I wish I had asked and known the MTG community was so relaxed after 9 years of being Qlaway

[@WWPPHANTOM]

I proxy for commander, just so I have decks at different levels. Plus I proxy cards I already have so I don't have to swap cards out of already built decks.

[@GremlinZ420]

To me, the only things I’m playing proxy is expensive things. But also, not abusing it. I’m not proxying really rare shit that is literally impossible for me to buy. For example, I’m building a Archfiend of Despair deck in legacy. I could buy 2 of them, but 100$ for 2 cards is kinda step for a broke teenager. I still bought all of my cheaper cards at my LGS, but if I need more than one of a card over 35$, I’m gonna proxy it.

[@MultiDelta18]

Really like the video, you explain as a hole the problem with proxy and I'm 100% on accord with you. I'm the type of player that prefer to put card I own in a proxy deck, because my LGS does not allow proxy for league or tournament or commander night. One argument I came across when I was playing with people who did not like proxy is it kill the creativity of the deckbuilding part because you can use all the same card in every deck. My point of view was that I agreed some people use the same card over and over for the same usage like the cyclonic rift because now we got thing like edhrec and so many deckbuilding site and some card are just better (demonic tutor is stronger then diabolic tutor), but depending of the power of my deck and what I want to do with it I'm not going to use such powerfull card. Also proxying make me search for different card I don't own to test them to find the best 99 with a commander and the theme I want to build. I wonder what you think of this point of view. Does Proxy really kill creativity ? I don't think so, but it take a more mature player to use proxy in the right way. The really only debate about proxy, in my opinion is the power lv discussion (rule zero), because some card on it own make it that deck are more powerfull than they should be, like OG dual land in an adnaus deck or fast mana in a ''casual'' environment card like gaea's cradle, mana crypt, etc. Thx you for the great video I will share it with my LGS to convince them more to allow proxy xD

[@marco1941]

well I understand one thing. If I was a player who's spent a lot of time and money for his deck, it feels kinda whack if somebody else just walks in with a deck out of his printer, playing all the expensive cards as if it was nothing. Thats kinda unfair and frustrating. So I see why people can have issues with that topic even I though I think it's a good way to test your deck before buying it.

[@StrataGames]

But it's not unfair, because the player who spent time and money also has the ability to use proxies. It's unfair if certain players have access to cards just because they have more disposable income

[@Prince_Smugarina]

If they ain't gonna sell the cards I want again... while also destroying my Tarmogoyf's worth, I'm gonna proxy the damn things. I can't spend 100+ dollars on an old secret lair, especially when they're strictly for casual play and not remotely tournament legal.

[@Beldan4]

I started playing MTG in unlimited. Black lotus back then was $300. Do I regret? sure I do. However, would I / have I EVER spent $300 on a card? No. It's a freaking piece of cardboard with a picture on it. Requiring the original card is essentially saying "If you're poor, you have to play with cheap cards". Let the collectors deal with struggles of high priced cards. Cards beyond a certain monetary value should be banned from all tournament play. It's the primary reason I don't every really play tournaments. It's offensive.

[@jotru271]

Yep 3:57-4:00 people just don't like proxies... lol Yep and players without disposable income to spend on cardboard just don't like wealthy players who want to flex their deck muscle amongst those who haven't collected as long or don't have disposable income for cardboard... I'm a huge proxy fan. I enjoy MTG and unless it's a tournament for CASH (not packs of cards because packs of cards are NOT CASH), proxies shouldn't even be an issue. But I'm THAT casual player that really doesn't care if you're sporting a real Underground Sea or a proxy. Doesn't even matter.

[@d2h655]

Well this aged well

[@rohezalvomambo1208]

Since WotC decided to threaten content creators with hired mercenaries, proxying is even more an option. I've stopped supporting this company, but still love the game, so proxying the cards I want is crucial for still being able to play it. The secondary market is no option, because people there still buy real cards and therefore support WotC indirectly. LGS-support is an issue, though, but I have none around here... Thank you for this video, which provides all the arguments players need when thinking about proxying.

[@NoahRobertson-w4b]

As a collector player, I need at least one copy for a set, but after that don't care. Some of these things are way too pricey. Like 'have you lost your mind?' pricey. Besides that, you think I'd legitimately play and take 700+ dollar cards to an LGS/ tourney/ whatever and not become immediately paranoid? I don't want that. The repro lotus isn't a big loss if grows legs while I'm talking to the judge/shop owner/ whomever. Never forget that. These things will grow legs. Even if they're under 100, legs, it happens far too often.

[@wzz7380]

I never waited someone to say thats its ok to do this hahaha. When i was young my father had a printer and i used to ask my friends what cards they wanted me to print in order to test matchup decks. We were actually 2 doing that, another friends father had a little society with a big print machine. When we knew that we had a standard tournament we would print every top deck in order to play our favorite deck AND play the other deck to change our viewpoint and play better against them. That was very fun and infinitely cheaper It was 15 years ago tho during the Mirrodin block, dragons orage and first Kamigawa sets if i remember correctly, not that clear in my memories. Now you can do this on arena, stil cheaper to print proxies and play with friends on paper