Why You Shouldn't Go to Harvard | Malcolm Gladwell Highlights | Google Zeitgeist

Malcolm Gladwell explains why you'd be better off going to a worse school (and why you should hire people at the top of their class, regardless of the pedigree of their institution).
Google Zeitgeist is a collection of talks by people who are changing the world. Hear entrepreneurs, CEOs, storytellers, scientists, and dreamers share their visions of how we can shape tomorrow.
Malcolm Gladwell is the author of five New York Times bestsellers - The Tipping Point, Blink,Outliers, What the Dog Saw, and David and Goliath. He is also the co-founder of Pushkin Industries, an audio content company that produces the podcasts Revisionist History, which reconsiders things both overlooked and misunderstood, and Broken Record, where he, Rick Rubin, and Bruce Headlam interview musicians across a wide range of genres. Gladwell has been included in the TIME 100 Most Influential People list and touted as one of Foreign Policy’s Top Global Thinkers.

[@finalbox4416]

This video is served best with a fresh rejection letter from Harvard.

[@chuck5279]

Ha! Nicely done.

[@nanayaa7795]

🤣🤣🤣

[@MrKingzSon]

LOOOOOOOL!

[@rsequakes2240]

LOL¹⁰

[@johnyepthomi892]

It's as if Harvard organised this event so some don't destroy themselves after rejection lol

[@SensorySensitiveAdult]

I'm impressed that the whole audience is full of rolling desk chairs and nobody is swiveling. I would be spinning for sure.

[@schrodingerscat3912]

explains the name

[@JG-zu5wc]

Friendly advice- don’t go to Harvard 😉

[@EvilestMinion]

Persistence

[@lamar3448]

🤣😂😅

[@ShashankBharadwajBLR]

Only the top 3rd of the room is swiveling. The rest have given up after looking at their excellent swiveling ability

[@gregoryharlston0602]

When I was a freshman at Harvard, I cross enrolled and took a course at MIT. At MIT, this relative ranking versus absolute ranking was in full effect. The entire freshman year at MIT was pass/fail. The reason for this is that it gave freshmen an opportunity to adjust to the rigors of college life at MIT, but more importantly it gave those freshmen who were no longer top dog time to adjust to this new, painful reality. Suicides were definitely an issue.

[@mmymmy315]

jesus

[@maximiliancarey9047]

Fr, my dad went to MIT and always told me that the school colors are not “red and white” but “blood and concrete”.

[@goodpainlive1]

These Ivy League schools are for prestige only. There is a study where 50% of the kids are under so much pressure, that they suffer depression, anxiety and suicide. Once you get into Ivy League, you are under tremendous pressure to perform. It's not worth it for most.

[@robertspies4695]

I was wise beyond my 18 years and chose not to go to Harvard.

[@yt_nh9347]

Though i am guessing that choice wasnt made by you but by Harvard haha

[@GlorifiedTruth]

Neat!!!

[@SkillUpMobileGaming]

Wow, you must truly be an enlightened intellectual gentleman to have "chosen" not go to Harvard. I, too, "chose" to not go to Harvard.

[@lost524]

@@SkillUpMobileGaming hey buddy that was the joke

[@zacharyyan4898]

I rejected their rejection of the rejection of my application.

[@rvcmathguy]

I witnessed this with my son. He went from being a top student at an average high school to a below average student at an elite high school and his academic career was never the same. He totally lost confidence in his abilities and has never recovered academically.

[@danbuffington75]

This is what carol dweck talks about. Those with a "fixed" mindset give up once they discover the "just aren't smart" while those with a "growth mindset" excel because they discover they get better because they put in the work.

[@rvcmathguy]

@@danbuffington75 Yep, and my son is definitely a "fixed" mindset, so it totally fits that way, too.

[@Art-zs6sl]

@@danbuffington75 Thanks for spelling that out Dan, good stuff.

[@MoizRafay]

Show him this video and your comment

[@mypapaya590]

@@rvcmathguy Tell him that there are people out there who failed school and become scientist, mathematician and etc. It's not the end of the world, as long as you don't give up and keep going

[@DSAK55]

I was thrown out of Harvard.........for trespassing

[@mursie100]

I'm sure there's more to this story than "trespassing"

[@maryamhamid4829]

Lol

[@joelr1112]

😂😂😂

[@S0DAo]

mursie100 it’s a joke

[@Ikbeneengeit]

I was legit thrown out of Oxford for that, snuck off after a guided tour... Security knows the students by face apparently.

[@horkade]

However, once you're aware of this tendency, the result can be different, right? The message should be: Don't go to Harvard if you're not psychologically prepared to handle the effects of not being at the top of your class.

[@blank_line]

I would have spent my high school years happier, if i heard this before going to a private school after a regular middle school

[@gmh471]

Problem is the kid who generally aspires to go to schools like Harvard have spent their whole lives being the smartest one in the room (or thinking they are) or who have been constantly told how brilliant they are. Few think, gee, it's gonna be stressful being around students where 100% of them think he or she is the smartest one there. And, boy, that rear windshield sticker - the parents gotta have that. I know a kid who got almost a full ride to both Vanderbilt and Tulane, got off Cornell's wait list and is going there full freight (financed mostly with loans). All so mom and dad can brag that their daughter is at an Ivy League school.

[@kristietamato]

It's not just psychological. There's many factors that contribute to the success of the top of the curve including ones that are beyond your control like your parents or social class.

[@kml.]

Love this perspective. This is the right way to spin it. Gladwell suggests going to a low tier school, to be at the top of the class. Instead go in with eyes open and be willing to not be the best at a top school.

[@andrewheavenridge7955]

Wouldn't you be more likely to actually get an F if everyone in the classroom is performing exceedingly better than you are? Thought that's how college works. At least these rigorous, "renowned" ones.

[@wave5009]

Me, a community college graduate: Yea I'm too good for Harvard

[@juancena840]

You Are homie Harvard is just a name my guy you can get the same education from a different college

[@dumamilk]

the hardest working and brightest fellow students in my upper classmen compsci classes were transfers from community college. community college works.

[@gravitatemortuus1080]

No the point is a person in Harvard at lower end compares him self to those in Harvard not those in community college. But he is still higher but quits based on Harvard and goes to a lower degree when he was still in the higher ranks vs the whole.

[@randolphpinkle4482]

@@gravitatemortuus1080 Thanks Captain Obvious.

[@user-uv4tv9po9j]

I went to community and now im in med school. You are more than an elitist university

[@Tzadeck]

Richard Feynman gives advice to his students about this problem in a freshman physics review lecture at Caltech in the early 1960s--i.e., he notes that half of the students will be feeling insecure about their intelligence as they find themselves in the bottom of the class for the first time, despite being among the most talented science students in the world. You can read it in Feynman's Tips on Physics. I imagine Malcolm would find it interesting, if he hasn't read it already.

[@gokiburi-chan4255]

Tzadeck know malcolm he probably already did.

[@sjuvanet]

he's already read it.

[@Wulfcry]

its a common misconception that being on the top of achievement has this mental effect that it will always be cause the mind isn't prepared for change on another level. That why most don't experience competing as sparring but as an drag that puts them down.

[@Ikbeneengeit]

Feynman and Gladwell both like poking at our preconceived ideas, looking for false assumptions. It's refreshing.

[@Tzadeck]

I really doubt Malcolm has read this to be honest. Malcolm's style is to build narratives from a series of facts, and that's his talent, but I find his books to be almost always under-researched. Often he includes anecdotes that are misleading or not true.

[@ThatOneScienceGuy]

I’m studying biology at a public college and I’m learning a ton and enjoying it. I’m tired of the elitism. I work hard and get good grades and enjoy what I learn and I’m doing it without accumulating ungodly debt.

[@jayak8217]

Your happiness in life is more important than status. Good on you

[@bw5187]

nice

[@friktogurg9242]

The question is if there is a difference in academic standards or rigour, which is depending on the uni IMO. If you get a good GPA (maybe second upper or FCH) at any college that is not a diploma/degree mill, you should be quite smart.

[@ThatOneScienceGuy]

@@friktogurg9242 I graduated with GPA 3.83 from my biology program and it was a rigorous program. My school has a higher than average rate of acceptance to medical school.

[@friktogurg9242]

@@ThatOneScienceGuy Yup precisely, if it is decent university then you are probably really good/smart if you do really well. OC taking into account the course, if you do maths major with high GPA, you are basically a genius so long as it is an accredited/decent university.

[@Polyester_Avalanche]

Be a big fish in a small pond. That is the one point that has stuck with me the longest from his David & Goliath book.

[@77solsken]

An imperfect solution. Can end up being a negative

[@KevinMartinJose]

Works if the world was a pond. But to your annoyance (and mine) the world's an ocean.

[@karyemaitrealiffemd7241]

Big fish small pond backfires when you apply for top positions in corporations, graduate and professional schools...

[@Polyester_Avalanche]

​@@karyemaitrealiffemd7241 Those, by their very nature are "big ponds," in my estimation.

[@karyemaitrealiffemd7241]

Agreed, Polyester Avalanche. Just wishing to highlight the flawed potential conclusion that the big fish from small ponds will be better positioned for attaining dream goals.

[@zacharythatcher7328]

I’ve done both (undergrad vs grad). I can say that being at the top of the curve is incredibly liberating. The confidence given by the fact that no one will do better than you is freeing and made school a joy. Being below the top of the curve (but still passing) was completely paralyzing. Especially when you want the degree more than anything. I was scared stiff. So many nights when I wanted to drop out. So many blank test and homework questions. From this, I learned that school can be a uniquely oppressive environment. In my “easy” experience I always thought that effort mattered and that grading was happening fairly. In the “hard” environment I felt that I was being arbitrarily boxed out of doing what I was passionate about simply because it maybe took me two more weeks of head down studying to get the point that others were able to get to effortlessly. Ironically, I was actually jealous of this studying experience in undergrad because I never had to study (with a few exceptions), so I felt like I was prone to forgetting all of the material more than the kids who actually had to try. After experiencing that reality, I am now scarred by the material that I shoved into my head night after night and never want to think about it again. I’m almost uninterested at this point.

[@interestingvideos4me]

brilliant points!!

[@wunkewldewd]

Wait, this is crazy. There's a way more plausible explanation. I went to two schools. The first was fine, but not very selective. I was consistently in the top of my class in my majors (STEM). Then I went to another, more selective school. The classes were very clearly harder, and I did way worse. I've also done some free online courses from good schools, and the problem sets they do (for the same undergrad classes) are just a lot trickier. Instead of the simplest proof of understanding (that I had experienced at the first school), they deal with edge cases and things that tested much more depth. The class difficulty scales with school selectivity, and that's why you see similar dropout rates as a function of intelligence across schools of different caliber. And this makes sense: at Harvard, it's not that the kids at the bottom of the class can actually succeed there but are comparing themselves to the top of the class and losing confidence, it's that the class is relatively very hard for them so they deal with the struggles of someone at the bottom of the class (who will realistically often have to drop it to not fail). So he's right that if someone at the bottom of a harvard class goes to U Maryland or whatever, they're more likely to finish, but that's not because of some confidence effect, it's because the classes will be easier. However, I think most people who have the option still choose to go for harvard because of networking/name recognition/etc, even with the higher risk of STEM dropout.

[@ChristopherElwell]

You're right, his conclusion seems way too bold for the evidence provided. I'm stunned that I had to scroll so far to find a comment pointing that out. See my comment as well: kzbin.info/www/bejne/bXuQqHZ-ea-Mo9E&lc=Ugw8jMitXmgREZ3xoQ54AaABAg

[@LoganMarcosSchmidt]

youtube commentators more intelligent that gladwell

[@ellax325]

I agree. I was in high school and took classes at the local state college and excelled. The material was easy however, I am now at a high tier university and I'm struggling a bit because the classes are significantly harder, the material is more dense and they generally expect more overall. Many of my friends are opting to take intro level physics, microbiology etc at the local state or community college because it's easier and they are more likely to pass with a higher grade. It's a trade off they are willing to make because the classes aren't essential to their major but you best believe they're taking their engineering, coding and math classes at our higher institution because it better prepares them for what they'll have to do at their job.

[@maxmeier532]

his explanation may be wrong but the conclusion is still correct. You have better chances at getting the stem degree from a lower ranked school.

[@nanon7695]

Jake McCoy How about this, the classes are easier and everyone else is at or below their level SO potential Harvard students are more confident and excel in lesser universities so they are more likely to graduate

[@jrjoey11]

My dad would tell me growing up “it’s better to be the head of a rat than the tail of a lion.”

[@markyang1924]

There's a similar saying, appearing in Victor Hugo's "Notre Dame de Paris", except it's a fly instead of a rat.

[@mmawalidh]

Always want to be the head of the lion.

[@dexking1]

Tell that to the rat caught in the owl’s mouth

[@Pete_xp]

I like to form this lesson like this, would you prefer to be the star player on a awful sports team or a role player/bench on a championship team

[@dasikakn]

I dunno. If you’re optimizing for confidence, then this makes sense. But if you’re optimizing for longevity, lions tail is the way to go for sure!

I was told to be the dumbest in the room. And not waste time where you’re the brightest.

[@roodified]

Absolutely, since he said that it is relative to your circle, then how would you grow if you are the brightest.

[@77solsken]

if you struggle your entire life you may invent it when you're truly on your own.

[@nkULTRA007]

Exactly, I was always told "If you're the smartest person in the room, you're in the wrong room."

[@biketickler65]

A little bit of extrapolation here and there would say go to Harvard then because you wouldn't be the brightest

[@revolvency]

Yes, be the dumbest, but don't get depressed

[@queent3343]

You should go to the college that feels like a good fit. My daughter instantly knew which college would work for her the minute she stepped foot on campus. So we listened to her. She had a great college career and internships and went into a great career in advertising/marketing. My son went to a state school and opened his own business with the community he found at that college. Now he has total autonomy over his work life and is doing great. The Ivys aren't for everyone and your life won't end because you don't go.

[@danielemondmusic]

I got a fine arts degree, moved to Brooklyn and broke my parents’ heart

[@aaronwalterryse4281]

good for you

[@Pcarnevaaa]

Disgrace 😂

[@outlinedcord7254]

... he’s joking

[@rban123]

I'm just here to say that Harvard's and University of Maryland's computer science rankings are tied.

[@SusanLiu112k]

I'm just here to say.... GO TERPS!

[@a.taylor8294]

Many people do know that U of MD is a highly regarded college

[@rban123]

@@SusanLiu112k hell yeah!!!!!

[@paulrivera5231]

So what you’re really saying is that your Asians are just as smart as their Asians. I’ll get back to you after I ask my Asian friends to explain it to me. 🤣

[@John-dw6ru]

Fear the turtle!

[@blackbird5634]

"You can have an extraordinary experience in an ordinary place." -Dr. Cloyd Kerchner.

[@UnlimitlesslyFunnyDude]

like how so ?

[@blackbird5634]

@@UnlimitlesslyFunnyDude The character Will, of Good Will Hunting, receiving a master's level education by reading the same books Harvard students read, and yet doesn't attend Harvard University, is a good example. He's gotten a million dollar education without paying tuition or sitting in lectures on campus. People are not required to sit in paradise when they discover they're in love with each other, a bus station becomes ''paradise'' when we find that special person. The extraordinary experience is subjective. Child soldiers in Africa who've been forced to kill their parents with a machete, and are then sent to kill neighbors in other villages, have had extraordinary experiences not offered to First World service men and women. Those kids don't need Seal Training to cut a throat.

[@UnlimitlesslyFunnyDude]

@@blackbird5634 your answer is pretty good... so can i ask other questions?

[@blackbird5634]

@@UnlimitlesslyFunnyDude what's up?

[@UnlimitlesslyFunnyDude]

@@blackbird5634 so what is experience?

[@deeperdee]

Google edited out the first part of the video. In the intro, Gladwell makes a joke about himself, saying that he’s foolish for having agreed to speak at Google for free. He uses it as an example of elite institutional cognitive disorder. I guess Google didn’t like how it made them look.

[@wisnoskij]

You start out assuming the SAT scores correlate to ability at Math. That is your entire premise, "why would the bottom of the class in Harvard drop out, he is better than top of the class anywhere else". But then you conclude with the idea that companies should ignore the institution, as only relative class rank matters. Which is completely counter to your entire premise (that Harvard is filled with super geniuses, and psychology causes some of them to drop out even when they are superior to the entire rest of the world). What your research has "proven" is that you should hire Harvard drop outs before top of the class students from lower schools.

[@henriquecarvalho849]

I don’t think he is endorsing a capitalist mentality by suggesting that companies hire graduates from other schools. He is actually suggesting this so people change this supposedly bizarre attitude of going to a more prestigious college in detriment of another. Hiring people from other schools would dissuade this pattern of behavior.

[@wisnoskij]

@@henriquecarvalho849 Even if he is suggesting that companies hire inferior applicants to try and change the behavior of graduating high school students, that is also not what his research suggests. Even if all the students went to low ranked colleges, he spells out that the bottom third of them would still drop out. He explains what 1 single student can do to improve his chances, but only if others do not follow his example. The goal is to surround yourself with idiots, which only happened if all the smart people go to another school.

[@henriquecarvalho849]

Jonathon Wisnoski Totally agree with you on this. I believe his research is solid, but his solution to the problem is horrible. Instead of focusing on the problematic ranked system of universities, he tries to maintain such system and focus his solution on avoiding the universities themselves. Even if not all students followed his advice, and only some went for their second choice, eventually some students would drop out anyways and the statistics wouldn’t change.

[@kathrinlindern2697]

@@henriquecarvalho849 The question is what students drop out. Firstly, the purpose of a university shouldn't be to certify how smart a student is just by reviewing the applications alone. The top tier companies that hire graduates could evaluate resumes themselves and determine who is a "super genius", based on the same information Harvard gets before even accepting a student. But what is also important is the development that follows. How much students learn in their four years of college. And if someone is top of their class at a good state school, they have probably learned more overall, especially in the field of actual research and the specific subject they are studying, than someone who is in the last 20% of their class at Harvard. They probably have a better work ethic than those who drop out because they feel the pressure is too high. And last but not least, employers search people who fit their own profile, not necessarily someone who is super "well rounded", as top universities like to put it.

[@runcandy3]

@@kathrinlindern2697 While it may be true that the top students at state schools may have successfully learned more than the bottom, the companies concerned with hiring geniuses will still want to hire the top students from the Ivy league school than the state-school-student that couldn't complete the school with their higher SAT attaining peers. Therefore, his point is still mute since it would be impossible to compel companies to change their behavior save by force since it would be detrimental to hire the less qualified applicants. My last point will clarify the first: companies hiring solely from the applicant's alma mater is not a prolific problem (or at least, he presented no data or evidence proving such). Therefore, he presented a self- defeating thesis for a non-existent problem.

[@CaptainCody7]

I went to school for Aerospace engineering (Penn State). You needed a 3.0 to make entrance to major. I was friends with the kid who was ranked 100 out of the 100 students in the class. Ironically he was proud to be at the bottom of a smart major. He had people skills and got a good internship and good job. Better than some people at the top of the class. I enjoyed working with him in senor design and he did more work than higher ranked students. I always new that if I did not understand something it was just because I had bad resources and did not take it personally. If you have a good teacher and good textbook, class is easy. If you have a bad teacher and bad textbook class is hard. After working with people from many schools some people do have a knack for certain things. It is way more about how interested they are in the topic though then how smart they are or where they went to school. Motivation and hard work equals talent, pain and simple.

[@keelhe893]

I was like your classmate… some folks fail when they are not the top and some feel privilege and see it as an opportunity to grow their own personal skills. I hope that guy continues to do well because he used all his resources to change his environment

[@23232323rdurian]

I was a UCBerkeley Grad School dropout....I found that pedigree opened more doors in my career than most anything else. People ASSUME you're hot property just from the label...even if you're not, they'll still ASSUME you are, even if you dont produce.. That's a *GREAT* reason to get into the most prestigious school you can.... And says something about your marketing/salesmanship skills, which are very important to.. And at Berkeley everybody else was considerably SHARPER than myself....That was a GREAT experience for me... At least I (sorta) learned how to TALK like them, and WALK like them...

[@interestingvideos4me]

maybe you should not have your real name as your youtube handler...no?

[@Mistyrious]

I’m not sure how much I agree with this. I’m a senior at a tough boarding school, and while my freshman year was really strenuous mentally and academically, I and a lot of the kids realized that you need to appreciate the amazing resources you’ve been offered by your acceptance and do what you’re there to do: learn and challenge yourself, not compare yourself. My per term GPA since freshman year has risen by 0.9 points, and I’m much happier than ever before. For sure one of the things I’m most grateful for in going to this high school was realizing I’m with a bunch of stellar peers, and for sure I’m not the top of the class anymore, but that doesn’t mean anything so long as I can do my own best. So wherever I end up for college, I know my abilities and will be fine in making my education valuable. Certainly some students struggle with this a lot more than I did, but in the end it works out. These top universities want to educate students who can move on to be the top in their respective fields and they hire amazing professors, making their classes more rigorous than others. At a state university, not doing well might mean totally dropping out of school, whereas at an ivy, not doing well means persevering, or exploring and finding a major that fits your interests and you can excel at. So, if you don’t want to be part of the people who have a goal and are changing their industry and innovating, or you know you can’t handle not being the top of your class (and would drop out rather than keep trying or find something new), I guess I’d agree and say don’t go. But you’re likely to find something you’re happy with, and though you’re not the top of your class, like this guy said, you’re still top of the country. You’re only in undergrad for 4 years. You’re in the real world for the rest of your life, and that’s where you’re going to work and make change. Take the path that works for you to get where you want to be and help the world.

[@jeffchanin8620]

Sometimes the greatest thinkers don't do particularly well within any organized institution of learning

[@theperson3693]

Who?

[@gustavoturm]

Yes, but note what you are assuming: "Great thinker → don't do well...". This is different of "Don't do well → Great thinker". People confuse those all the time.

[@JamesJoyce12]

yeah - that is pretty much untrue - but it does give comfort to the stupid people

[@Mo-vc8wp]

@@theperson3693 Leonardo DaVinci wasn't traditionally educated in an organized institution

[@rexislv6025]

JamesJoyce12 We all know a person must be smart if he puts formulas in his profile pic.

[@introvertsafterdark8030]

This happened to me during my first stint in college. I was engineering major at a highly ranked university and felt dumb because I wasn't grasping the material. My confidence plummeted and it has never fully recovered.

[@gerardtyson2274]

Counterpoints brought up by a Quora user Russel Huang, answered on April 7, 2015 Which dropout rate, exactly? Is it: - the proportion of students who declare a STEM major and then do not graduate within X years in that major (out of all students who declared STEM)? (I think this is the 90%, or rather, 10%, figure.) - the proportion of students who declare a STEM major but switch to another major (out of all students who declared STEM)? - the proportion of students who wanted to declare a STEM major when they started college, but eventually don't (out of all students who said they wanted to do so)? (I think this is what Gladwell is trying to get at.) Gladwell's argument appears to be that many of the people who don't go into STEM at Harvard could or would have done so at another university. In other words, he posits that your "chance" of getting a STEM degree isn't based on your absolute ability but rather your relative ability compared to your peer group. He then conflates that with the idea that the relatively-lower ability students are "dropping out" of a STEM field. That's not really what his data shows. All his data shows is that, for whatever reason, people with a 700 Math SAT (or whatever) are less likely to major in a STEM field if they go to Harvard rather than Hartwick.

[@gerardtyson2274]

Continued by the same Quora user Here are some points which I think that overlooks: - Harvard undergrad classes are a manually-selected 8% (or so) of a pool of 30,000+ applicants. They are not chosen to be interested in only getting STEM degrees, but they are selected to be good (as measured by a test) at math even if they eventually decide they're not interested in majoring in it. - Economics is the most popular major at Harvard, but is not usually considered to be a STEM degree. On the order of 200-300 students each year (out of a class of 1,600) graduate with an Ec concentration, and probably a lot of them were in the bottom third of their classes in math ability. I doubt many of them are breaking their parents' hearts--at least, not because their salaries are too low. - People could be making the rational calculation that an English degree from Harvard is just as "monetizable" as a math degree from Hartwick, and is probably easier to get. Anecdotally, I'd say that if you go to Harvard, your choice of major does not stop you in any way from participating in the salmon spawning grounds of recruiting. There are a whole lot of other assumptions in there to criticize, but I don't want to go too far, since I do think that the "relative deprivation" feeling also plays some role in causing the observed phenomenon. However, it's hardly the entire explanation. Gladwell is probably doing that thing he does where he makes the most contrarian argument that can be reasonably defended. It's made him very popular and reasonably rich.

[@oinkpiggin]

This theory only works if you attend uni for a degree. You don't go to Harvard for the degree. You go there for the connection/networking it has.

[@hollymccordduncan2017]

Google his other lectures, especially comparing elite schools to modeling agencies. He addresses this with data.

[@catchharish12345]

you wont network or connect, if you have lost confidence in u r abilities....ppl underestimate the importance of grades in determining self worth of college students

[@vaccaphd]

The number and the quality of people you are connected with is a good predictor of financial success.

[@pm7317]

@@catchharish12345 Schools like Harvard grade inflate, so low class grades isn't the issue. Almost everyone has a 3.7+ gpa there regardless of major. But yes, people do lose confidence when it appears their peers are so much more gifted, can get the solutions to homework questions far more quickly, can score higher on all the examinations.

[@AlexanderShamov]

And I thought people went there for knowledge and skills...

[@brendanreeves9645]

Thank you Malcolm Gladwell! This was really helpful for me to hear before I started my undergrad at Stanford. If I'm ever feeling down in one of my CS/Math courses, I try to remember the absolute vs. relative position distinction. This should be required listening for all first-years -- still going strong towards my CS degree!

[@makisxatzimixas2372]

Math is the type of subject where, unless the teacher is specifically committed to you understanding and remembering the material, you are on your own. If I could draw a parallel it would be like if a literature teacher just started reading a book, and then when he was finished he started asking questions about the grammar, the vocabulary, the theme, the characters, etc. There is a sequence you should follow if you want students to remember and learn.

[@therealhkhan98]

Malcolm makes a compelling argument, however, there needs to be more context given as to why students at elite institutions drop out of their STEM programs. One major area I would have hoped Malcolm brought up is the career outcomes of students at Harvard. Every year almost half of Harvard's graduating class pursue careers in Finance and Consulting. These careers are quite lucrative and allow for fresh graduates to make 6 figures even with a fine arts degree. This is because outside of the extremely technical roles in finance, there are still many opportunities available in these fields for those with a humanities or social science degree. A lot of the top firms solely recruit from a handful of elite universities often ignoring many well-established institutions. This is why a Biology major from the University of Wyoming can earn significantly less than a History major from Yale.

[@friktogurg9242]

"top firms solely recruit from a handful of elite universities" Nepotism. It is like a research institution doing the same, if they are unwilling to go by merit and instead follow the brand, what good is that institution?

[@artmanrom]

:) The bottom line of what he was saying is: "Avoid to go to places where you'll be shadowed by others, you'll get depressed and discouraged." And that's a moot point cos all it's relative depending on each of us.

[@bw5187]

Ill be the last place on the 1st place team any day thx

[@DavidDiaz-wf8jt]

​@@bw5187I wonder if '1st place' at Harvard thinks of his/her classmates as teammates or competitors?

[@williamlehan4079]

I can vouch. I went to Dartmouth and took introductory Chemistry my freshman year. I kind of understood it the first day, felt it slipping away the second day and was completely lost after that. Sitting for hours poring over the class exercises and lab instructions didn’t help. I stopped going to class and flunked. Wound up majoring in History.

[@FRAMEDSKATEKREW69]

So I watched the whole video and I really needed this. Transferred out of a community college and went to a public university. I think I compared myself too much to the other kids. I’ve been letting my mental health go down the drain because I let my confidence go down. The work is more harder but I know I can do it

[@ShortenMonteCristo]

I comletely disagree that you should choose your 2nd or 3rd pick. If you get into Harvard, you should go to Harvard. I don't care if you graduate last in your class, the doors that would open and the people you'd meet from going there would be well worth your time. Even just having the name on your resume is huge

[@wesleyfreeman5918]

honestly this has helped me a lot, ive been having a particularly hard semester in school, and wanting to quit. but im keeping on going.

[@luke3016]

He goes into depth on this subject in his book David & Goliath

[@ThuyNguyen-bu9ge]

Then I had an advantage - being amongst the top students from 5th grade - 12th, and solving problems that my colleagues could not during my years studying Computer Science in college. Amazing how empowered and confident you feel when you're at the top - even if it's only relative. However, I always try to seek for challenges that I may not be able to accomplish because it's more fun/stimulating that way. Life gets boring when accomplishment is almost guaranteed.

[@matthewryan4844]

I got a nice rejection letter from Oxford and had a very happy 4 years studying at my second choice so anecdotally this makes sense to me. Now I teach in a business school and about 3% of students quit each year even though they have not failed any modules and I never know why. This really helps give some context; they need to know how well they are actually doing.

[@kshitijpatil9015]

what subjects do u teach at business school friend .........?

[@puvendranpillay8802]

You must be a multi millionaire businessman

[@jonathanbolger6173]

Weird, i experienced this during my Degree but never knew what to call it, and I went to a small local college, not an esteemed ivy league. I studied Mech Eng and struggled with maths initially, but that was compounded by the people around me, who where far more comfortable. It's only when stopped comparing myself that I actually became confident and finished with a decent GPA in maths. I remember thinking, the stress involved with maths was hindering my ability, and that stress was caused in large part because I wasn't "getting it" as quickly as others. It's a cycle because the stress is actually what's causing it, and the stress is caused cause you assume your not able to get it. Breaking that cycle is tough, but a very valuable lesson for me. I can only imagine what this is like in a school like Harvard.

[@Jay-ef2ii]

Special Words: Do your best in going to a regular college and get your math or science degree (if you are a STEM major). Don't worry about Harvard, Brown, UT Austin, Stanford, Johns Hopkins University, Yale or even Princeton. Just focus on getting into a regular Community college, and don't focus on your peers but focus on only passing your courses while attending that community college as well as finishing your degree and getting your certification. And that is it! Any college in America as long as it is accredited is good enough. Listen to this Video message by this speaker and forget this nonsense that you must be at Harvard. Do not let "Harvard" mess up your mind in any way. Any college in America is good enough. Take care. May 2023. USA

[@KevinMartinJose]

This is bizarre: 1. All STEM degrees are not created equal. Gladwell argues that taking that 30% chance of not graduating to put "Harvard" on your resume is not worth it, but doesn't explain why. Perhaps the math program at Harvard is just harder, and wouldn't that make your degree more valuable (at least theoretically)? 2. So the solution is to surround yourself with mediocrity? Isn't it true that you are the average of the people with whom you spend your time with, and hence it is in your best interests to be in the company of people smarter than you? 3. Companies should hire the "top" students regardless of the institution they went to. Who is a "top" student? The one with the highest GPA? GPA is a predictor of job performance as much as the GRE score is a predictor of research aptitude - there *might* be some correlation, but it would be wrong to assume that the top student on paper is the best candidate for the job. 4. Stanford/Harvard dropouts changed the world - plenty of anecdotal evidence. So dropping out of Harvard is perhaps not the worst thing that can happen to you.

[@DrDLL99]

Couldn't have said any better

[@annmariebusu9924]

Kevin Martin I think schools try to weed out the bottom so there are less students in the end to focus resources on.

[@K9Zangetsu]

A lot of nuances weren't discussed just due to time constraints. What we have to remember is that social science is mainly concerned with averages.

[@gustavotriani5611]

I think his point is that you shouldn't struggle so much to be in a secondary position at the top of the top schools. It's better to have a prominent position in a peripherical place. Better for your own sense of value, better for your self-esteem (and success in STEM). The potential frustration by failure in a top school is huge. I don't see it as an ode to mediocrity, because the point is that you can have as much success graduating in a good school elsewhere as you would after graduating at Harvard or Stanford. I have a broader understanding of what he is saying because I have read his book "Outliers". By an arbitrary metric like picking professionals by the name of their institutions your are pushing great people and great professionals out of the market. The fact that very few people had succeeded after dropping out of the school (by their own choice, and not because they failed), doesn't mean that everyone that dropped out of the school will have the same results.

[@KevinMartinJose]

@@gustavotriani5611 I agree with you - picking professionals by their institution is indeed arbitrary. My argument is that if you have an admit from Harvard vs a-good-but-not-great school, I do not think you should pick the latter because the probability of graduating is higher. Surely, there must be more to attending college than the certificate that you get at the end of it?

[@dwgraham22]

Getting a post-graduate certificate… or even better, a graduate degree from one of these elite institutions later on in your career is almost as good as getting your undergrad at one of them... not to mention, much easier. The name of the game is branding, at the end of the day.

[@chacmool2581]

I am afraid it's not that simple. It's not ultimately about graduation but about jobs and income. An a Harvard degree, even if it's in basket weaving, will get you a job regardless, where as an engineering degree from an unknown university is much much harder.

[@nothanks3236]

It's true. Wall Street will hire an English major from Yale over a top-of-their-class MBA from University of Maryland 9 times out of 10. I even saw stories a few years ago about Wall Street and hedge funds reaching out to non-business majors at Ivy League schools to offer jobs. These again were kids that were English majors and whatnot, being offered six-figure investment bank jobs literally only because they were Ivy League.

[@citrine615]

The high drop out rate in more competitive programs could be due to more difficult assessments. A student who attended Caltech told me that they used the standard grad text in a Junior level course.

[@schrodingerscat3912]

I'm the worst math student of all time, but i worked hard and made it to calc3 and earned a degree Computer Science. perseverance is key

[@johnalexandersanabriaordon1851]

What I can say, Malcolm Gladwell is smart guy sharing with us very interesting insights. I quite sure many others like him or better though existed but thanks to Internet we can hear and know about their rationality and knowledge.

[@aru4115]

Thank you, this made me cry

[@UnlimitlesslyFunnyDude]

nop .. you are choosing to cry nothing can make us cry or laugh without our own permission

[@kristietamato]

Another trick is to transfer from a community college. The first 2 years at a university is the most brutal. Transferring avoids that. The last 2 years, the class curves lean to the right.

[@shakhlogiyasova2905]

I dropped out of one of SKY universities in Korea exactly for this reason. It's not that I couldn't handle classes, but they were so hard and a grading system which ensured you could almost never get to top of class unless you studied 12+ a day. I thought a lot about what the SKY diploma meant for me and decided that actual real world application of what I was learning was slim,i was basically studying book, doing presentations and learning the theory. I am working on my own business now, while attending a local university. Yes, it's not the same world-class university level, but you know who cares? Maybe some organisations do care about prestigious diploma but chances are once you get through the door they will value your skills more.

[@urohawk7986]

Can only use my personal story as an example. Smartest guy in high school was pre-med in Northwestern. He was ranked #1 in high school and set district records for grades. I was ranked 13th. I went to Iowa and got mostly A's. He was getting straight B's at NW. He dropped science and went into business. I persevered and became a physician.

[@EmeraldRubyTea]

With this knowledge in mind, I would want to go to an elite institution because I know I’ll be in the company of the best which will help me stretch my mind beyond what I’d think I’m capable of. At least, to test my limits. I don’t think one’s SAT score is the definition of one’s academic ability.

[@Azeoble97]

Exactly

[@LuisFernandoImperator]

There's a mistake in his assumptions. He assumes that a math degree in Harvard and in Hartwick are equally hard to successfully acquire. It could be that Harvard has higher standards for grades and assignments too. So even though the bottom of the class is smart, it is harder for them.

[@DeAndreTJ]

He never made that assumption. You're assuming that's his premise but he never tried to equalize the academic rigor of the institutions.

[@NhatLinhNguyen82]

@@DeAndreTJ But he did, by drawing the conclusion based on similarity of outcomes without mentioning that he accounted for differences therefore he is putting forward the assumption that both schools have similar program.

[@NhatLinhNguyen82]

Furthermore, he is actually equading the outcome of graduating from Harvard with science degree and graduating from Hartwick with a science degree.

[@DeAndreTJ]

@@NhatLinhNguyen82 Now you're assuming that he made assumptions. Most people understand that Harvard will be more academically rigorous than a state school. The fact still remains, you can't objectively say that Malcolm presented this data in a way that equalized the academic rigor of these institutions. That's a nonsensical assertion backed by nothing but your thought process. Malcolm's point is, why take the 30% gamble for the same degree, just for a prestigious name on a resume. The consequences of failure can be financially devastating. Go to a state school where its less rigorous, cheaper, and the chances of you graduating with that STEM degree is 30% higher.

[@mn8931]

Whats wrong with his assumption is that higher graduation rate of top 3rd sat scores and lower graduation rate of bottom third is due to drop out. In reality it could just be the composition of student profiles accepted in those programs across the country.

[@bbsara0146]

This happened to me. I felt stupid, but then I later searched up the other kids in my class, like 80% of them are math professors now and have been putnam finalists. So they were among the best in the world at math and I was just a normal kid LOL

[@bun2738]

Everytime I listen to this guy talk I feel like I've acquired knowledge like no other. . . .

[@redmed10]

Who's got the wrong stats here? Gladwell or Harvard themselves. What is Harvard's graduation rate? | Harvard - college.harvard.edu/resources/faq/what-harvards-graduation-rate

[@555pontifex]

I got a place to study Classics at King's College, Cambridge University. It became pretty clear to me within the first trimester that I was the best student in my group, and my director of studies told me exactly that. I decided that I had 'won' and basically all my motivation disappeared. I ended up with a degree, but not with the distinction that I should have got.

[@jamesmcinnis208]

I tell my students that colleges are a filtration system designed to test your mettle. Some professors are less subtle about this; their classes are designed to be confusing and consequently teach very little.

[@ricecake13579]

I don't think it's only peer competition, I think the testing and grades are also harsher at these better universities which makes it more difficult to graduate.

[@nil2176]

This is the best part of his book David and Goliath. Truly an eye opener....

[@marafortune3713]

I think instead of changing our behaviour by avoiding more challenging universities, we should instead change our own perception and accordingly our reaction to more challenging situations. It is true that this is really hard but wouldn‘t a person profit extremely by all the motivation, resources and professors (at e.g. Harvard)? If one can achieve to not be so extremely influenced by others, I don’t see a reason of not going there...

[@temikolarinwa4927]

I'm not so sure. Being around people so much smarter than you could be demotivating. You don't want to be the smartest kid in the room, but you also don't want to be the dumbest

[@loquentesineptias3837]

In my opinion, the title "don't go to Harvard" is a click bait more than the message, instead, from what I understand, the message was "be rational, be mentally stable, be persistent" in any institution you went for to study. And perhaps the additional info that the general knowledge that top firms tend to accept students from top/ivy universities affects both university choice and the pressure/stress of the students both internally and externally.

[@therobertjconley]

He doesn’t mention what has traditionally gone on in the math and science departments of colleges. Classes are graded on a curve. By definition about a third of the class is going to flunk.

[@Stryfe52]

It’s like choosing the level of difficulty. You’ll have to be the best wherever you go, so it might not be in your best interests to pick a place where your best isn’t enough. That, or live to love the challenge.

[@ybtutube]

Thanks Malcolm for making feel smart about attending / graduating from Maryland even though I could have gone to higher ranked colleges 🤓

[@jacksonmadison9994]

Lot of flaws in this reasoning, and many factors not taken into account. 1)comparing income between schools, but not comparing between majors 2)comparing the worst Harvard students to the best Hartwick students 3)referring to students “dropping out” of STEM majors when that’s not the same as dropping out of school entirely. They’re simply switching their major. 4)top schools have much higher graduation rates (e.g. Penn 95.5%, Penn State 73.2%, 6-year graduation rate) 5)the income comparison likely only looks at students who graduated. Since top schools have far lower dropout rates, their average/median income will decrease by much less than the average school if the income of dropouts is taken into account 6)top private universities also provide the best financial aid. Below a certain income bracket, you can qualify for free tuition, and sometimes free room and board on top of that, at most top private universities. Even above the free tuition income bracket you can still qualify for generous financial aid. Gladwell is just selling clickbait in this presentation; diminishing the best institutions to make everyone else feel better. Providing little if any credible evidence to support his claims while ignoring many valid counter-arguments.

[@AsadtheTutor]

Trivia: The creator of Dilbert, Scott Adams, is one of Hartwick's alumni.

[@delturge]

Bravo. Bravo. I love your explanation and conclusion.

[@ptiwaridotin]

He is absolutely correct, I am a testament of that. My undergrad college is not the best in the country but I certainly am amongst its top 10 percentile of students which has given me a lot of confidence and has led to a lot success in my endeavours.

[@henrylawson430]

I went to an elite private secondary school for six months, hated it and switched to a regular public secondary school. I am relatively bright, but was mediocre relative to the average at the elite school, but was one of the better students at the public school. This speech suggests I made the right choice. I have done quite well in university and employment subsequently.

[@kennedysan1045]

I remember being told by a lecturer, 10 years ago, that they are required to allocate marks according to the bell curve.. X amount of HD's, D's etc.... It was something that he refused to do. Imagine grading someone, in order to satisfy the grade curve, on something as fickle as the size of font being used in a title.

[@thethievingmonkey]

Yeah, that method is awful, it actively discourages cooperation between students. If students in a class can all be better by helping each other out, that class should have a higher success rate.

[@1MinuteFlipDoc]

that's the way big companies rank employees too!

[@lwbaum1]

That applied to me. I got 800 on the math SAT, went to Harvard to become a physicist, and got a C+ in freshman math. Since math is essential in physics, I decided to switch to a field less dependent on math: neuroscience. But though I may have been a victim of this cognitive bias, I've been happy with my career.

[@jhannheras9994]

last part is brilliant "...we are so enormously flattered and please with ourselves that we do things that are irrational"

[@sushrutsuns]

Wait so he's advocating that the false confidence you get from being the top of a tier2/3 school is a good reason for you to be hired? Once you're out there and you perform poorly then you're confidence will drop anyway.

[@cisium1184]

I question his thesis. I chose my college specifically because I like being around people who are smarter than I am. (In fact it's one of the colleges on the list behind MG.) The competition drives me and I learn more from the exchange of ideas. I figured this out playing music as a kid: playing with better musicians drives you to play up to their level.

[@NonArkara-hl7mc]

I love the talk. I did manage to be the best student at my undergraduate institution and then went on to Harvard afterwards.

[@jakobwachter5181]

If you are a top student, anywhere in the world, you will make the most of what is given to you. As a U Maryland student, I would wholeheartedly agree with some of the folks in the comments that our math, physics, engineering, etc. program is probably not as good as the one at Harvard. But what I can also tell you is that the top students at Maryland are probably getting a better education than the average student at Harvard. This is because a top student here will make the most of the (many) resources available to them and will supplement a (likely accelerated) course track with research, independent study, and projects. Anywhere you go, there will be intelligent folks who are brighter than you in some aspect. But it's your job to not let a GPA define you; instead, choose to utilize what your university has in store. In my honest opinion, it's those kids that should be hired. Not the ones that graduated from Harvard just for the degree, but also used all of the plentiful resources available to them while they were there.

[@nehahp477]

While I agree that it would be good for your motivation to not be at the bottom of your class, I think the described phenomenon also has to do with the fact that schools like Harvard have better professors who expect more from their students. So even though the graduation rates seem to correlate with the relative standing of the student in the class maybe that's only because it actually IS harder to graduate with a STEM degree from these schools. And maybe the choice to go to a school that's harder to graduate with a STEM degree from, is not entirely irrational, given the relatively higher quality of education one can expect to receive? Maybe the lesson to learn, the harder one certainly, is to teach kids perseverance rather than to choose the path of least resistance, and a growth mindset that does not not tie their self worth to grades?

[@lucy-janewalsh9047]

The problem with this is that you get more out of going to Harvard than the learnings. You also connect with people who come from powerful and intelligent backgrounds who can propel you in your career. I’d say go to Harvard but don’t go expecting to get As. Go with the understanding that you will be among some of the best minds and that your mediocre grades are less important than your connections

[@vancedadder]

Why would those people from powerful and intelligent backgrounds connect with a "mediocre" person/student?

[@atharvakpatil]

@@vancedadder welp, gotta market our value to them somehow

[@nancypaul7730]

Powerful support for not overspending and sending our kids to prestigious colleges and putting the family in financial jeopardy.

[@makisxatzimixas2372]

Exactly my thoughts. It's just about hard at the uni I'm in and I'm a social person. If I had gone to an easier one I would have gained the experience of being the smart, social, fun guy in class.

[@InterstellarRanger]

I have admiration for Malcolm's eloquent writing and his brilliancy is in distilling complex ideas in to simple yet beautiful prose but its the same skill that is his undoing. He takes scientific works and simplifies it in to pseudo scientific "wisdom" which even worse - is consumed without scrutiny by the mainstream.

[@EstherJesintha]

I knew this too, and would've chosen not to go to Harvard. Only, Harvard made that choice before I could😌

[@dantemakoya]

oh man that last statement is gonna haunt me for a long time *chuckles

[@davemckay4359]

Keep going. No matter what. Keep trusting things will work out. That us the smartest thing

[@anuragp2003]

Maybe if we join the 2nd or 3rd best college we could get through, it would fly in the face of the adage " If you are the smartest person in the room, you are in the wrong room".

[@BambaZillah]

There were kids who got barely accepted by better unversities that decided to come to mine instead. They excelled and all of us expected them to and that made them excel even more

[@timisaac8121]

This is the first day I see Malcolm Gladwell- At 3 15- LOL- it is a function of relative standing!! Muah!! Love you alot!!

[@SusanLiu112k]

UMD is actually really competitive for STEM degrees. I'm a high school valedictorian of over 600 graduates attending UMD because it's cheaper and excellent at CS and math, my two majors. I'm really happy there and find no disadvantage compared to my friends at Ivies. I got a well paying internship in my first month as a freshman because of UMD's recruiting opportunities.

[@joejoey7272]

Is it possible that students in those fields aspire to go all the way to graduate schools to earn a PHD (only way they can earn a living with those fields ) and seeing that they aren’t the top of their class will lower their chances of getting accepted into a graduate program?

[@codezier2738]

that's true I was extremely average in my school. I went to an average University with a little extra work I achieved top of the class marks (Which makes you push yourself even further and helps a person to learn on their own)

[@GierlangBhaktiPutra]

Immediate surroundings totally influence your self-perception about yourself. Nice tips for young people whom about to choose their next academic path.

[@belleweather]

The distribution reflects a pattern similar to that of grading on a curve.

[@MesRevesEnRose]

Disagree. The program in Harvard is probably more difficult hence why the lower SAT students drop out. Also personally, I don't think it's good to restrict yourself to a small pond just to be a big fish as you're losing the opportunity to learn sooo much more for the sake of your ego. 🤷‍♀️

[@alquinn8576]

fortunately asians are saved from having to endure Harvard since--according to Harvard admissions--they are rejected due to "bad personalities"

[@Cuyt24]

I was going to enroll in Harvard next fall. I decided against it after watching this video. I’m now getting my degree from the University of Phoenix. Thanks, Malcom Gladwell.

[@rajagopalan7382]

Wow...this should be put on TED talk

[@Andrew-mm5qn]

To be honest, employers hire from the top schools because a good amount of the screening has already happened. Getting into Harvard is difficult and not dropping out and failing is also difficult. Employers see that and will hire a Harvard student over Missouri’s top because one, the student had more screening and two, the Harvard student was challenged and most likely has a more interesting perspective than the Missouri student.

[@baderinwa1]

My youngest brother initially attended a university of high ranking . His major was electrical engineering. He flunked after the third semester because he was effected by my mother’s dying of cancer. After my mother died, he enrolled in a lower ranked university in N. Carolina and continued to pursue a degree in electrical engineering. He completed his program and graduated number one in his class.

[@JamesJoyce12]

engineering is the exact same at MIT as it is at some state school - there is no easy or hard elec eng

[@wiswis]

I'm gonna keep that in mind and have that global 10000 ft perspective when I go to Harvard, so I can graduate.

[@deadlyrng]

How did it go?

[@patrickmccormack4318]

Teaching method is cause. Language is everything. And a wild mop of hair, envied by any of us wanting a bit more coverage, gives a interesting presentation.

[@karthikpuvvula]

I need to show this to my mom..