Why Your Treats Aren’t Working for Your Dog #59

In the world of dog training, a lot of people are trying to train their dog with a focus solely on the use of reinforcement. But there can be a disparity in the success people have when using rewards. We’re going to turn the microscope on why the outcome varies between trainers, why it’s happening, and what we can do about it so everyone can have success.
In the episode you'll hear:
• The reasons that animal training fails.
• How to get brilliant at understanding and using reinforcement values.
• What motivational currency is for your dog.
• The difference between a commemorative coin and a thousand dollars an hour.
• Why to vary the treats you give your dog when training.
• How different locations and activities can require differing rewards.
• The food rewards I use with my dogs and how I rank those rewards.
• My exact formula for what reinforcement to use when.
• Why to consider your dog’s uncertainty and distraction value.
• How to rank a reward’s motivational currency and the scale to use.
• The reason frequency changes the value of a reinforcer.
• Why I use high value treats for husbandry behaviors and how I transfer value.
Susan Garrett’s Reinforcement Formula:
RV Greater Than DU + DV
RV = Reinforcement Value
DU = Dog’s Uncertainty
DV = Distraction Value
Resources:
Podcast Episode 2: Reinforcement -
• Reinforcement #2
Podcast Episode 34: Time Outs for Dogs: Does Your Dog Need One? -
• Time Outs for Dogs: Do...
Tasty Treats Recipe eBook -
dogsthat.com/tastytreats/
Blog Post: How Do I Train My Dog To Come When Called? -
susangarrettdogagility.com/20...
Crate Games Online -
get.crategames.com/
P.S. Subscribe to our KZbin Channel so you get notifications of new videos!
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Dogs That is brought to you by Susan Garrett and the Say Yes Dog Training Team.
Susan Garrett’s interest in animal behaviour started at the University of Guelph where she earned a Bachelor of Science majoring in Animal Science. Since then she has developed into a preeminent dog trainer and canine sports instructor and competitor. Susan is one of the most successful agility competitors of the last three decades. She has won multiple Gold Medals at National or World Championship events with every dog she has ever owned over the past 30 years.
A natural teacher and an entertaining speaker, Susan is world renowned as a leading educator of dog trainers. Her understanding of how to apply science-based learning principles to both competitive and family pet dog training has been pivotal in changing how dogs are trained.
Susan is now helping many thousands of dog owners in 82 countries have the best relationship possible with their dogs. The real joy for her comes from bringing confidence to dogs and their owner through playful interactions and relationship building games that are grounded firmly in the science of how animals learn.
- - - - - - -
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[@carolinedeforche6366]

So logical and obvious, and yet it makes a lot of sense to hear a thorough analysis on this.

[@stepheniedomenico4943]

The story about the Golden retriever puppy and the same treats at home as at training was a lightbulb moment for me. I have been guilty of making the higher value rewards too ordinary by using them at home instead of saving them for higher distraction/higher uncertainty situations and thereby making my job so much harder than it needs to be. Thank you for this podcast.

[@maryannh3317]

Great information!

[@maryannh3317]

This might be the best video ever!!!!

[@susanjohnson8973]

Just finished making 4 different treat recipes before I watched this podcast. I was thinking about treat value and this podcast really hit home. Thank you for really explaining the use of treat value.

[@trinityvautaw3535]

I came here hoping for treat recipes from Susan but if you have any I could sure use them!!! I'm a total newbie trying to manage a super good boy husky and super good piitty boy

[@4SweetFeet]

Oh brother. I need to go thru my closet and freezer to rank. I have a 4 month old Golden and I don't have low value! Thanks for tip on mixing too. Luv Recallers! PB & J TODAY. I am going to try it inside tomorrow. With a real feel of 90 in the shade, I couldn't get much arousal from either of us! And that's after she played in sprinkler! 😂

[@sugrnspicy]

I’m on Treat Diving on the 3rd level. I still can’t always get him with all 4 paws on the mat. I even brought in a larger mat. I KNOW that I am struggling with RECALLING what treats I’m grabbing from my hand. But, something I never realized before starting Treat Diving, is that one of the treats I had been offering him earlier, is that he doesn’t even like them. He’ll lick it in Treat Diving and leave it there. That alone was so good to know! He ate them when we’d walk, or walking through the aisles of Tractor Supply(to get him used to being around other people, places and noises, but not with Treat Diving, so maybe I’ll use them as a number 2 or 3 treat. I now see the importance of offering the different values of treats being transferred to the action or behavior. Once he accomplishes what I want him to, then he gets that WOW treat. But, then again that’s where I have to be ready to find it in my hand. I think I’ll take the time practicing by myself, when not training, getting that down pact. I live in the US and it was hard to find the Honey Beefers, a lot of places were all out of stock, so I grabbed all I could, which was 4 bags online. One note, too, is when I found the Nothing But Duck, is that it is made in a city in East Palestine, Ohio, very close to the recent train derailment that caused toxic chemicals being released into the air and surrounding area. A scheduled burn of was then conducted, but the community is getting very sick, and they’re finding much of the wildlife and pets are dying, now. So, I’m refraining from getting the Nothing But Duck, for now, at least. The government and the railroad are saying everything is safe, but the residents aren’t believing them by what they are feeling and seeing. It just reminds me of the Camp LeJeune incident from 50-70 yrs ago. Both, my mother and father developed the types of cancers that have been found to be common from exposure to the contaminated water on the Marine Base, decades later from living on the base.

[@ericalachappelle3008]

Thank you so much for explaining it so well! I had a really funny episode with my 6 month old Yorkie mix, Remy. Tonight we were working on his Hot Zone and I was giving him treats that he really likes. He decided that there was something of a higher value than those treats. He ran over and got his favorite BarkBox crinkle toy and placed it in my hand. He does that when he wants to play tug. So, we continued training with that and he seemed to get it much faster. I’m not sure if that’s ok to do or if I should continue with treats. But, he sure responded to the toy more than the treats tonight. I guess you could say that Remy Home Schooled me!!! I’m going to work on getting more of a variety of treats. I haven’t cooked meat in a very long time. But, I’ll do it for him 😁❤ It will be fun to see which meats he prefers.

[@DogsThat]

You are welcome, Erica, thank you for such a lovely note! You and Remy have got this!

[@olindagirl]

How every dog lover on the planet is not subscribed to this channel, is a mystery! Brilliant content every time! I’m a new member of Recallers and just started with my 8 week old puppy. Collar grab and It’s yer choice are where we’ve started, and in just the few days of having him, there’s been a marked improvement in his mouthiness. I also am following your method for crating at night, and by night 3, he’s sleeping through the night. Wish it would’ve been so easy with my children! I’m planning to make some of your dog treat recipes, but what I’d really like is your favorite chocolate chip cookie recipe!

[@haleyheffley2501]

I love hearing that Swagger loves venison because that’s one of my girl Ellie May’s favorite foods. I know you are vegan, (which I completely respect), and I hope you don’t mind me sharing. I, myself, am a hunter. I take pride in living a field-to-plate lifestyle, knowing where all my food comes from, and supplying all the protein my family eats. My breeder fed a raw diet, which motivated me to make my girl’s treats and food. I make my poodle venison, duck, goose, wild Turkey, and fish that I catch. She absolutely loves false albacore. I’ll make cubed cooked meat, Jersey, ground meat, and have even dehydrated things like the esophagus after reading how it’s packed with glucosamine! I also just harvested my first elk, so my girl got to try that, too. 😊 Knowing that my girl gets the highest quality ingredients is such a great feeling. On a different note, THANK YOU so much for this video. I definitely needed this content. Ive run into some road blocks, and I’ve realized it’s because I’m not saving the highest value treats. This video gave me the knowledge I need to take back the keys to the cookie jar!

[@trinityvautaw3535]

I'd love to talk more this comment really fits my value system and I have a million questions I'd like to ask I'm not sure if or how you might be comfortable with that but please let me know!

[@sofilahavanese]

This was great Susan, thank you! I always learn from you because you explain things in such a way that it ALWAYS makes sense!

[@gailshapiro3422]

I like the idea of having an assortment of treats at a training session. Since my dog will eat anything I usually use one kind of cookie at a time, now I'll change that. In my yard, I recently took him off lead. First I made sure that he knew I had a pocket full of chicken. What a difference!! He didn't wander off, when I told him to go play he'd run around a bit, but kept coming back to me on his own! It was very exciting to see how happy he was to be free and I felt more confident about recalls.

[@elenac6034]

Great one! Thanks again. I would really appreciate to have podcast on how a usual daily walk looks like with your dog: how long, how much do you let them sniff and how much should they focus on you, do you add some trainings in your walks?

[@traci635]

Thank you Susan for listing your training treats....I would have never thought to use such a wide variety of treats. Rating the treats will help me when distractions are higher for my dog.

[@nelewolfs2828]

I loved this podcast. Never knew dog training involved so much strategical thinking :) Thank you for the valuable info.

[@PaigeAlbiniak]

This episode came at a key time for me and really tied into what I'm working on in agility foundations training. Also I found it very funny and think Susan should reward herself for doing this podcast with some warm vegan chocolate chip cookies.

[@tuckerchuck5217]

Great podcast. I would love to see how you pack your treat bag.

[@jennyrothkopf8347]

Susan Garrett, lolol. What about cheese??? My pup would do anything anywhere for goat cheese chunks.

[@The1eviltemptress]

Having a difficult time getting my girl to touch my paw with any kind of enthusiasm. I did learn one thing today, though, kibble is a higher value than mozzarella cheese!

[@jannineatkinson6867]

Wow this explains alot. Its 10 value for me

[@WaggingTailsDogTraining]

SO HELPFUL.

[@nancyhooper1742]

Had to rewatch so I can write this down for I can remember this when training. Awesome podcast as always and have to rewatch #60 too ❤❤❤❤⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

[@suzanneevans1771]

Thank you for sharing your formula and explaining which values of rewards to use in which situations. Looks like I need to get busy baking and dehydrating 🧑‍🍳 to create a strata of values in my rewards instead of just the same 2 every time. Thanks especially for the tip of reserving the very best for husbandry - my youngest is terrified of claw clipping, so I clearly need to up my game to help her overcome that (I’ve also just purchased a Dremel on your advice and am doing exposure training on that ATM). 🐶❣️

[@jp410]

The notion of the reinforcement mix, and the way Susan discusses it here, makes me wonder how it overlaps with reinforcement rate. For the dog, getting a HV treat every once in a while, depending on what the trainer's fingers happen to grab out of the pouch, kind of dovetails with the dog's experience of intermittent reinforcement. I'm a beginner at dog training, and I'd love to hear more about that relation, if there is one.

[@sarahstobbs4476]

I love your podcasts! Easy to understand and follow and it all makes perfect sense. Thank you so much for sharing your vast knowledge. 😁🐾

[@DogsThat]

You are so welcome!

[@vickydimitriou6156]

Fantastic information 👍🏻

[@vavavoom111Q]

Yeah, I pulled half a kilo of dried chicken from the dehydrator and then found the video. Also, gonna make some fish cookies, thanks for an idea, I haven't made them for long time

[@ckeluna9731]

this is my favorite one so far!!! now i have an arrange of treats to chose from and the high value for our "unicorn" training

[@hankaskacanova7500]

Thank you so much! This is super important to know.😀💕

[@DogsThat]

Glad it was helpful!

[@kevinwu7506]

thank you Susan, I trained a lot of aggressive dogs. some of them will work for value 10 treats. but most of them won't. Like you said in the video, the dog uncertainty is too higher than the RV. Especially dealing with extreme predatorial aggression. what would you recommend??

[@esleyalbert2656]

Thanks for great info :) I have a new puppy. She has been doing well with higher value foods and have made a few of your cookies! She doesn't want to play with me with kibble at the moment. She doesn't even want to eat it out of a bowl. She is just waiting for higher value stuff. We have a bag of raw food that she will eat from a lick mat. How do we make sure she gets the nutrition she needs but also build value in games like crate games ?

[@tgtg4512]

Thank you for the reference book! I ordered 2 of her books!😍

[@grannysouthafrica7540]

Thank you great pod cast.

[@suenorwood6699]

Great information once again. I need to get more creative. My dog loves freeze dried minnows. They are good for find it games and are not too stinky!

[@ginaivy6189]

How can I get your treat recipe book?

[@elizabethakemp9953]

Much to take in, thank-you. I've downloaded the tasty treat cookery ebook. Living in the UK, they need equivilancies can someone tell me what cream wheat is, and several recipies use graham crackers- we don't have them, but aren't they sweet biscuits?

[@pascaleburnet7583]

Thanks for another great podcast... I have been using a lot of different treats while training and it is amazing to see the difference in the dog when using low or high value treats... I have not tried Tripes yet ( not really sure I want to smell the thing :) ) so will look where I can find some in my area. I can also see the difference when I play with high value and low value toys. I will make sure next time I am in a new environment for training to look at what kind of treats or toys I am bringing!

[@DogsThat]

Thanks for sharing!

[@monicakriete]

THIS IS SO HELPFUL! THANK YOU SUSAN! SORRY FOR YELLING BUT I WANT TO CONVEY THE HIGH INTENSITY OF MY GRATITUDE!

[@cathyfiebiger4883]

Hi Susan I love this guy how do you transfer this to things like the front paws training to stay with front paws on the target?

[@ShetlaDK]

I have yet to actually rank rewards. Too lazy :-) This podcast shows me how our training will benefit from doing so. Must find an RV high enough for me to get on to the task of ranking and using rewards strategically. My dogs are so easy to train, I grow lazy. What results might I not get with much more forethought from me?! 🤩 Loved the formula put into math language. I do the same thing all the time. So really works for me. Thanks for all you share!

[@LindsayHaven]

8:11 Do you really have a freeze drier? I do a fair amount of making my own dog treats and backpacking food with a dehydrator, but have always found freeze driers to be much more expensive. Since you have so many dogs and your business is dog related, I could see you spending the money on a freeze drier, but I just wanted to make sure you really meant that since it's a pretty big investment for most of us and I might be misunderstanding you. Excellent episode by the way, always good to revisit what we are giving our dogs to motivate them!

[@RaptorsGirl]

Yes Lindsay I really do. And use it a lot! We have a garden in the summer and FD a lot of our extra produce. Also have a dehydrator that we use regularly as well.

[@angelacurry1666]

But what happens when prey drive kicks in and your reinforcer isn’t as enticing as a rabbit? For instance, a high drive dog that blows through commands because of an outside stimulus and you don’t have anything that dog wants more. Without properly timed consequences what stops the dog from doing it again? What interrupter works when they are overstimulated by prey? If they are intelligent enough to understand currency, something tells me they aren’t too stupid to understand value to them. I’m sure they’ll quickly discern that there’s no reason not to give chase more often. Proper punishers have a place and a reason.

[@DogsThat]

Hi Angela, here's how we handle working through a distraction like motion: kzbin.info/www/bejne/kGrLiX6CeLBjeck

[@lynne-sheltiesrock2322]

* * * * *Great podcast, but stop torturing me with dreamy pictures of chocolate chip cookies! Luckily, I have Shelties who think Cheerios and toilet paper are level 9 rewards! LOL Maybe there's another podcast coming soon about timing and delivery and jackpots? Does Random Reinforcement Theory enter into any of your training or Bob Bailey's reward systems? We spent a lot of time in Psych classes learning about that regarding human behavior in casinos. If the chicken doesn't know how many times he has to peck a spot to get the reward, he worked harder at it. Seems like we use that on the hand touches. I try to reward my dog's BEST efforts with higher value rewards - straighter obedience sits, better agility contacts, faster recalls, etc

[@traci635]

Physical correction teaches your dog fear or aggression. It is not a training tool...I love Susan Garrett...she loves dogs and her training works...im currently in her Recallers class n I love her training methods

[@katsim6799]

yaaay!!! Treat with blueberries!!! or cheese.

[@anna7bel1]

You forgot about cheese

[@katsim6799]

hmmm....I would say teaching and training and reinforcement are GREAT if you consistently train desired behaviors. BUT if you dont, and you end up with a problem dog, then correction of BAD behavior becomes necessary. Good owners can avoid that by training training training, not ignoring until you have an issue.

[@ednajankowski7058]

I’m having trouble ranking foods for my eight month old puppy. He likes food, he really likes food!!! He was shelter born. I got him at four months. Really there isn’t a food he didn’t like. I would bring out treats and he wouldn’t do anything but sit and look at me. As long as I had treats he did nothing, he got in the way and tried to steal treat. I will try vegetables but he likes cabbage, lettuce, and it’s hard to get him to stop eating grass. He might like cream cheese on crackers better than most things. But meat was meat (as in gone) inhaled. How do I test meat, crunchy treats, and vegetables to rank which he likes best.

[@ammi_10]

Please remember that some foods such as Grapes and chocolate are toxic for dogs so please do your research first. 🙂