Why your VN Characters feel Wooden (and How to Fix it!)

[@wren3060]

First off, can I say how much I appreciate that this wasn't just a regurgitation of the Hero's Journey format? I love how you've laid it out as more of a cycle, which makes more sense for an interactive, branching narrative. Your choices can affect a character's whole path, and sets off another cycle. I've written/illustrated comics, short stories, and worked in AAA games, and somehow creating my own visual novel now is so much more complicated. But I like the challenge! Keeping tabs on where characters change (and, as you've pointed out, WHY they change) is a whole beast of its own. You really do have to follow through, while adapting the story to flow around those choices regardless. Great video!

[@Yggdrasilincarnate]

I have definitely played some games where it’s felt like an exercise in lockpicking rather than feeling free to get to know the character just to avoid a bad ending… you put into words exactly why that was annoying!

[@ShadowoftheMask]

This does reminds me of how Scarlet Hollow made me realize how much more immersive it is when each interaction with character isn't followed up with "+5/-5 affection" :'D

[@XX-sp3tt]

If you have a game that centers on interaction... then having a cut scene where the player can't do anything is all the more powerful.

[@miserablepumpkin9453]

Huh, so that's why certain VNs and Dating Sims feel super frustrating! I never understood why before this video, thanks for clarifying that

[@flowerbloom5782]

This is so useful even for stories cause character action is important .

[@Barbieronpa]

Just wanna say, this is one of the most underrated channels I’ve ever seen. I’m currently planning my first original visual novel and nearly every video has helped in some way or another. Really hope you get the recognition you deserve and thanks for the amazing vids!! ❤

[@vimi]

Thank you! I'm glad I'm helping, and best of luck on your first visual novel!

[@bamb00zld]

Cannot put into words how helpful it is to have resources like this. Screenwriting was my major in college--mostly with a professor who was extremely strict about how every word should matter and anything that isn't driving the plot forward should be thrown in the dumpster. While story structures like The Hero's Journey are still commonly seen in visual novels, I have always struggled to make any player choices feeling meaningful. The chart you show here for having meaningful interactions/choices in a VN will no doubt be helpful with my work. Anyway, your videos are very helpful and each one I watch is reducing my anxiety about the Winter VN Jam bit by bit.

[@vimi]

I'm glad this will be some help! Best of luck for Winter VN Jam!

[@Musashi246]

Could you please do a video about "How to make a VN as solo developer" - Focusing on the overwhelming amount of work that needs to be done and how to handle it

[@vimi]

I'll add it to my list!

[@michaelcividanes2930]

Oof, yes please!

[@KigyoDev]

Excellent advice. Thank you! I also appreciate you pointing out that a decisive moment doesn't always have to be a branching "good VS bad" choice. Just having one choice can be enough, since setting it apart as a choice already makes the player feel more involved.

[@vimi]

I'm getting a video idea 🤔

[@KigyoDev]

@@vimi Haha, looking forward to it :D

[@ttlbrh]

6 months ago I took my first try in a novel jam, and you were the one who taught me everything Tomorrow I will start my new jam, more experienced than earlier, and you're still the one who guides me Thank you so much!

[@vimi]

Congrats! Best of luck on the jam!

[@VOCAR0SE]

as a dr fan i gasped as i saw komaru

[@vimi]

I am having more fun with Ultra Despair Girls than I thought I'd have!

[@VOCAR0SE]

@@vimi omg AND ur a dr fan? 😭 best renpy channel ever

[@ShuyaTheDark]

7:25 Holy FS. I was expecting "how to write better characters" not "how to have better interactions with real people" lol That was really good!

[@ArentEchidnasCool]

This was an easy watch with great info! I really like how you made up simple example scenarios with the bookworm girl. It helped me visualize (haha) what I could do with my own characters and story with that reference as a guideline.

[@InkyIsScared]

I'd be interested in looking at how stat raising games do/do not fit into this formula. They aren't my cup o' VN tea so I haven't played a lot, but to me it feels like they often fall into that lockpicking problem and I haven't seen one that does it exceptionally well. Partially I think it's because they fumble the consequences side of the equation. Yes choosing to run after school every day does eventually unlock Athlete-chan's secret cutscene, but what it FEELS like you get in the moment is it has very little consequence because your immediate feedback is just "+1 Speed!" Also maybe it ends up dividing the weight of the consequences between all those little ones so if you have to run 100 times to unlock the special scene the scene feels 100x less important? IDK. I'm just talking out loud haha. I've heard Scarlet Hollow does really interesting stat raising stuff, where it's more determining your character's perceived by the npcs due to what YOU do in the establishing character phase.

[@vimi]

This formula really only works in terms of how the player character interacts with characters around them, and it's not something that needs to necessarily be applied to games; just a writing tool that may have some overlap with the narrative processes of preexisting games! If you were to take this tool and apply it to that sort of interaction, I'd have Athlete-Chan offer a challenge to the player: run X number of times within Y days, and depending on that, she'd offer them "a reward". This would be an extended Expose period, with the change depending on whether or not the player hit expectations.

[@IndigoNorthstar]

I want to say thank you for making this videos as the best tutorials on the subject. I am writing a VN in Ren'py and learn as i go. Your movies are so inspirering, creative and still gets the message across. I hope we will see more in the future. Lots of luck!

[@vimi]

Thank you very much!

[@ZohGaEri]

omg this makes so much sense!! it feels like something i've known all my life but didn't have the ability to think and put to use consciously!! thank you so much!!

[@vimi]

That's why it's helpful for myself to make these videos - it forces me to think critically about my design sensibilities and choices, and codify them so I tactfully use them in the future!

[@jinzolaamenazadelamaquina8287]

I’ve been watching so much on writing characters recently and I see this new vid by my fav vn dev? Hell yeah!

[@vimi]

Hell yeah!

[@saturnmurray6356]

Dude I love your channel so much!! Only If the idea Is interesting to you, Can you do a video on how to be influenced in your visual novel? I am paranoid that when making a game inspired by other visual novels, and other media, that it will look like I am copying, or that the parody aspect will be misunderstood. I want to really figure out how to weigh all of these genres in a meaningful way. Thanks so much for making these videos!!

[@fireball-1642]

The fact that I was already doing this shocked me, but also caused me to start over my VN because of how unengaging the choices and consequences were. I currently working on scripting my VN so this mistake doesn't happen again. By the way, your content is engaging and really helpful. I'm glad I found this channel since it has made me think differently about choices and consequences in VN's. Thank you so much for making this video!

[@superstarben37]

God DAMN I love it when a new video of yours pops up! Always so excited to sit down and watch them. Keep up the great work, you've got some fantastic insights!

[@vimi]

Thank you!

[@zeemmy33]

This video is really helpful and well edited, I have no idea why the channel isn't more popular

[@aidenb3069]

I've been binging you're videos. There's so helpful, easy to understand and fun to watch. Thank you!

[@vimi]

Thanks! I'm glad you've been enjoying them!

[@OverlordJake]

10:04 It's sweet to see a Dead Milkmen reference.

[@ayafan3876]

Really helpful for my game. I love the writing tutorials -- your vid on "how to write a visual novel" is one of my go-tos!

[@vimi]

Glad I could help!

[@ActiveDayDreamer]

Taking notes on your video, I noticed a difference with what you put up on the screen versus what you said in audio. You put up on the screen at 6:05 minutes: "The Player should have a few interactions with the Character until hitting this stage." In the audio correlating to that reference at 6:02 minutes, you state halfway: "It's great to save the Expose and Change sections until the players had a set number of interactions with the player first..." Do you mean, "It's great to save the Expose and Change sections until the players had a set number of interactions with the character first..."? Otherwise, it's a great, well-edited, and entertaining video that I will learn and take use from. Props to you for a job well done!

[@vimi]

Slightly different, but close enough! Probably should have said "before" instead of "until", but it's the same basic message - the player needs to have the character established and enforced before hitting the Expose + Change stages!

[@codeargent]

Yesssss I loved this! The draw of most games to me are the characters and prodding them to see what they'll do, so I really appreciated seeing a thought process behind how to do this. I was also going to ask about whether this cycle starts over again as the story progresses, or if that's the ENTIRETY of a character's development in a plot, but then you answered that for me in the second half, hahaha. Thanks! Also, great video!

[@vimi]

Thank you! I'm glad you liked it!

[@evil_in_your_closet]

This video is great! I think, one of the games that really pulls all of this off really well would be Danganronpa. Totally fell in love with that game btw. Also: Hi :)

[@vimi]

Hi :) I'm currently running through a few Danganronpa games (including Ultra Despair Girls!), and I also enjoy them a lot!

[@evil_in_your_closet]

@@vimi HA! I actually finished Part 1 roughly before christmas and cant wait to start part 2 soon! And of course i am also looking forward to Ultra Despair Girls! Generally ,the characters and story telling are just SO SO good! And i feel they really followed the principles of your vidceo (regarding character changes and interactions) to the tee. And theres not a single character that i dont AT LEAST appreciate!

[@Pixxeria]

Yaay! Always happy to see your content

[@vimi]

Thanks! It's a lot of effort, but hopefully my content helps!

[@bloodrunsclear]

I just got into VN, these videos have been very helpful

[@vimi]

Thanks! I'me glad they've been a help!

[@db-jugg3r]

Good job on explaining character developing progress :)

[@vimi]

Thank you!

[@TheRoadTraveledByFew]

Thanks for all the videos. Very informative and well made.

[@vimi]

Thank you!

[@CyberCaliber]

This is great even for writing. A lot of books need to allow their mcs to interact.

[@undeadbedhead6138]

hi, love your videos man! very helpful

[@sparkyndoggo7937]

This is very much going to help me with my next big project

[@hasamat38]

This while video can be sumed up to "you know how human interaction go, Make it that" Side note: profound human interaction to what ever extent you want them to be

[@angelos3049]

Quite informative video. One thing problem I am sort of running into is creating meaningful and impactful interactions between my characters and protagonist. Using a silent protagonist really ups the difficulty.

[@vimi]

It's definitely an adjustment! Lots of "implied" responses, actions replacing words, no internal monologue to fall back on, and you'll be relying on a lot more monologues! Having a narrator helps, though, if you can get away with it!

[@angelos3049]

@@vimi Totally. One of the hardest parts is having scenes end in a natural way or to properly get characters to talk and ask things. A narrator definitely helps during scene transitions. One question I have is if you'll ever do a video on code for updating ypur visual novel after you've released it? Hard to find proper guides on it.

[@vimi]

@@angelos3049 I just reupload the game to itch.io or steam - your save files are generally saved to a different part of the user's computer, so players can do a complete reinstall, and it shouldn't affect their saves! If you want episodic DLC, there are some workarounds, but I'd have to test them before I can do a video on them!

[@rickityrox814]

I just discovered your channel, but thank you for all the tips for Ren’Py it has been a major help!

[@reyt.1967]

this is so helpful thank you!!! Working on my visual novel rn and this is great

[@definitelyhuman4510]

Hey, thanks for the video! Last time I checked your video about how to write visual novel. Although it's really helpful to give general idea about how to write VN properly, can you go into more details for each part? Especially the part about the draft and story branch since it's more confusing and needs extra attention. You can also give example of the the VNs or story on which this technique applied.

[@vimi]

I'll get back to that with some genre-specific writing videos!

[@MxVerdaArt]

I swear I'm not ttrying to be a contrarian (right this second, anyway) but what about a VN a bit more like real life, where you don't always get closure? I could understand leaving hints that not every player will pick up, much less every playthru. It just feels like referring to conventional stories as examples to follow rather than examples that you may choose to follow or not might be a bit limiting?

[@hutala]

Hi! Just wanted to say, as a new VN dev I have watched almost every video of this channel and it has helped me a lot. The videos are easy to understand and there's many great ideas, which I plan to incorporate in my game. Under this video I saw a comment about what to show to the player. So I thought, what things should I and should I not show to the player? Telling them to click and explore as much as possible can be written in the game's download site. Telling that inside the game seems a bit patronizing. Also how much is too much? I plan to include time passage, combat, multiple endings, but I was wondering if this might repel the usual VN player. What do you think?

[@vimi]

Put in whatever mechanics and systems you feel would be fun in your game, but ultimately, clear communication to the players is critically important! When your game is content complete, get some friends, family, and strangers to be playtesters, and pay attention to what the players understand, what they miss, or any other unintended behavior you're producing through your systems. Usually, the most problematic elements will be the ones you least expected! In my first solo-developed game, I removed manual saving, and had the game autosave regularly instead. Unfortunately though, I didn't explicitly communicate the autosave feature to the players, so there were a few people who thought they had to play the ALL the game endings through in one sitting, instead of the intended "casual half-hour playthrough with repeat gameplay" behavior I was looking for! The solution? An "Autosaved!" popup at the end of each of the 5-minute chapters. Nothing patronizing about it, just simple communication. Best of luck on your project!

[@hutala]

@@vimi Thank you for replying. Yes, my game isn't done yet, but I plan to post the demo for a jam in a month and that's why I asked. A friend of mine did play it and he actually complained that I didn't give that much info about the MC right off the bat which I found a bit surprising and wasn't expecting. I guess I put too much of the MC's info outside of the intro and that might make the player not feel engaged in the story.

[@arvinbjorkgren965]

Thank you for the amazing videos!

[@vimi]

Thanks!

[@mywelldark]

Hey, I really appreciate your videos. Hope you're doing well and that things are going okay for you. Thank you and keep doing what you love to do.

[@vimi]

Thanks! I should have a new video out in less than a month, but I'm in the middle of a long term project that has taken a lot of my attention, that I might want to make some videos about someday

[@mywelldark]

@@vimi _"I'm in the middle of a long term project that has taken a lot of my attention"_ That sounds exciting! Love to hear that. And, whether you release another video or not anytime soon, long as you're doing well and enjoying (at least overall since sometimes I'm sure it can be a bit frustrating lol) what you're doing. Just wanted to thank you and check in on you is all cause you're more than your entertaining and informative videos.

[@FabioKun]

I have a request. I'm not sure when or if you will see this but, first of all, thank you for al the tutorials, it's helped me greatly. Second, is it possible for you to make a tutorial on how to make character eyes follow mouse cursor?

[@vimi]

I actually do not know how to do that yet! I have some ideas on how it can be implemented, though 🧠

[@FabioKun]

​@@vimi I looked around and someone suggested something to do with math and dot product and steering behaviour... This to say all I want it for is to make a feline character follow the cursor when it is a red dot, lol.

[@vimi]

​​ @Fabio Kun Honestly, that sounds about right, but if you're willing to compromise your vision, you can make it much simpler! If you wanted to do exactly that, have the character's eyes follow the cursor, you would have to create a custom class definition to track the cursor, and then interpolating that data in real time would require a separate function that would be pretty elaborate too. Probably a lot of time to code it properly, or at least modify code you found from someone else. If you're willing to go dumb basic with it though, you could create a screen with a series of invisible buttons, and then depending on which button you're hovering over, change the pupils to a new position aimed at that general area. Way less time to do that! If you wanted to go EVEN SIMPLER, you can change that section of your game so you need to aim the laser pointer at a particular spot to get the character reaction, and until then, the feline character will pretend they don't even care about the laser pointer. Literally a one button screen, and the restraints lend themselves to some structured interaction. Personally, I like simplifying the interactions as much as I can, since it tends to forces me to be more creative with the implementation, and once I have the interaction made, I start to think of all the other different ways I can reuse, reskin, and recontextualize that mechanic throughout my game!

[@BearBoyJW]

Another video I've enjoyed watching and I think I've learned a lot from. I don't have much to say, so I guess will just finish off by saying Hi haha Thanks for another good learning sessions!

[@watchandlearnLboard]

havent even watched the video yet but just wanted to say I love your content, keep it up :)

[@vimi]

Thank you! I'm doing my best!

[@retrofraction]

Wow this is good! I will have to try this out

[@Mermer-16]

So you don't recommend secret stats for inconsequential choices? For example, obviously, Book Girl would dislike you more if you chose 'I don't like books!', so -1 in code only. And if you keep choosing answers she wouldn't like, she'd hardly be likely to open up to you during a consequential choice. Or would you rely more on if/else statements to make inconsequential choices have at least some effect on the story? Or do you not really use these methods until a major decision is made? Sorry if I am missing something obvious. I'm not new to VNs, but I am newer to coding, so I'm just not sure how to implement these ideas in the coding. And thanks so much for your helpful videos! I've got more than a few bookmarked, lol.

[@fallahan]

Hey, VND, I have a question. Maybe this can be discussed in a future video, but I was wondering...how should I approach breaking immersion in order to give the player help. For example in my game I am making now, I have included quite some point and click segments that aren't crucial, but give lore info abou the world. The game doesn't tell the player to click around the screen, but I sort of hinted it in the best way I could without breaking immersion. How should I approach this?

[@vimi]

There's a difference between "Immersion breaking" and "incongruous", and as long as you stay within standard design conventions, players will accept it in stride. You can put a contextual "!" exclamation mark icon over something they haven't pressed before, give it a little animated wiggle, and that should be enough to get players to press on an object of interest. As long as you have the design match the rest of your UI, it doesn't read as "out of place"; the player will see it as an extension of the games existing interface. If that's not enough (and it might not be!) use a pop up that says "Click the "!" icon for more lore about the world", that appears if they haven't pressed a "!" within a the last few interactions.

[@toxicshroom3686]

I was just making a simliar "cycle" , it's good to have another source to compare it to tho

[@vimi]

How are you handling your "cycle"? I also want to compare!

[@toxicshroom3686]

@@vimi Oh thanks. You see I was working on kind of a general Flowchart for narratives within routes. You meet the character (1st Impression) => 2nd Encounter(You get involved)=> Empathy(You see the pieces of a character's conflict) =>Special (Every Problem and Person Is different , Spice It Up)=>Conflict (The root of the problem) =>Doubt=>Choice => Resolution.

[@toxicshroom3686]

Btw love your channel. It's such a Helpful Dynamic Edutaiment and I'm all in, I've already seen all of your videos .

[@Iceblade269]

Man, would love to see more content

[@f1reshark308]

Could you please make a new Action Editor tutorial? Cecause it looks very different now, and idk how to use it :/

[@vimi]

Action Editor is going to look a lot different another year from now too! Most of the basics are still the same, though! From what I recall, the big difference is now the sliding bars are the animation timeline instead of a slider for the value, so now you can just want to adjust those numbers by tapping, holding, and sliding your mouse up or down to change the number.

[@BenAtkinArt]

I love your content so much. I hope you're doing well!

[@ckproject1882]

at 1:00 someone is playing League on a controller. How come no one is talking about that?

[@vimi]

Stock footage sites are hilarious like that

[@faiyazahmed7838]

Bro could you plz make a video on compiling ren'py games for Android,PC and IOS plzzz ... I'm Searching whole KZbin but didn't find anything plz it's a request 🙏

[@AudiophileHeaven]

Very good video, strong points!

[@ladyshady9618]

Thank you so much for these videos, they are always super helpful. I just have one question. Is it possible to make a melee game similar to Skullgirls in Ren'py

[@vimi]

Anything is possible, but not everything is advisable. Do not try to make a fighting game in Ren'py.

[@the_rat_under_the_hat]

hi!!! very helpful video, thank you!

[@Jaopazo]

Great content thanks!!!!

[@vimi]

Glad you like it!

[@baltiir2953]

What game is at 10:54? that art is beautiful!

[@vimi]

That's "Dream Daddy"!

[@baltiir2953]

@@vimi thank you for letting me know :)

[@dailyfunnytv358]

we need more of your content

[@vimi]

Working on it!

[@warrust]

Unexpected Muramasa footage

[@gallowsparadise6392]

Not sure if you are still reading comments or liking or whatever but I need someone ANYONE to help with the audio I’ve inserted it says the file cannot be found but it is very clearly there and it’s stressing me out any help would be appreciated!

[@vimi]

Try saving your audio as different audio file types. Renpy won't recognize certain types of waveforms, so I use the program Audacity to change up the soundfile exports.

[@nadiarey4196]

Hi. I just want my hi back.

[@blackknight3097]

How open all scene in fashion bussniness🙏

[@Allahuakbar123_]

I am a 13 year old who is ned to game development but I'm currently working on making a doki doki style game about a game studio making a horror game. The game has been in years of development (in game game) and has a virus which is eating the code to streghnthen it and also uses the computers to hypnotise the workers into becoming it's slave. The main characters are gonna try survive in the game studio which is going to go through allot of development...

[@creator-link]

Hi!

[@anatoliyadonin8013]

Hi 🙂

[@vimi]

🙂 hi!

[@Akindex]

Hi

[@Dwagoober]

Heya!

[@vimi]

Hi!