Will Bungie Recover from a 45% Revenue Miss?

[@DestinL]

Do you think Bungie will recover? Let me know and please consider subscribing! kzbin.info Become a Member here kzbin.info/door/gUOWrjLEhmHE9tqYtoeS_gjoin/join`11`

[@schitzoflink8612]

Little confused as to how Sony is not doing well when they have made like 13 billion net profit just in 21 and 22. All of these layoffs this year have been at the hands of companies that have made profit. I really wish yall would at least acknowledge the fact that it's a decision to make a small % more overall profit, instead of keeping those employees. They didn't need to lay those people off. Even when it comes to shareholder value they can characterize it as long term investment but they Choose not to. Please stop letting the people who make these decisions off the hook or at least explain why when the parent company is making billions in profit they "need" to fire people with little to no notice.

[@backitup5954]

At this point, I feel like unionizing should be the way to go in the future at this point.

[@brian197686]

Guess those trains completely derailed and none of them made it to station. When your business model is purposely under delivering, you deserve to fail.

[@blammo5823]

What honestly turned me off to the game was that atrocious state of the game post in August by Joe Blackburn. That was the final straw for me.

[@MysticalCabal]

The og bungie no more, I gave them a chance but after this move I'm done with bungie. After they said after sony acquisition they were not going to let go of employees, and bungie lied and did the opposite. Maybe destiny 45% down cause their nothing new, we harcore gamers, eventually going to get tired playing the game for 9 years, it's time to make a new game and move on, not fire employees for downfall. If anyone to blame, blame the leadership for their decision.

[@Ladiesman2I77]

Bungie blamed Microsoft for having to much control over bungie. Bungie blamed activision for having to much control over bungie Bungie blaming Sony now…. I think we are starting to see a pattern here.

[@funkyrealcat2054]

They did not blame Sony for what is happening tough

[@masterrugg22]

​@funkyrealcat2054 so their incompetent then

[@funkyrealcat2054]

@@masterrugg22 pretty much

[@futuregenerations2599]

Everyone seems to BLAME MS FOR ALL OF THEIR BLUNDERS. AND ITS MS FAULT FOR THEIR OWN DEBACLES TOO. ITS ALL MS AND PHILS FAULT 😂😂😂

[@theMaster...]

The way Bungie treated the very people who had made them successful in the first place is absolutely disgusting. To sneakily fire people so as to deny them their shares only to reabsorb those shares back into the company is outrageous. In support of those badly treated employees I won't EVER be supporting that entity moving forward. That means no expansions, no cosmetics and no purchases of any new titles or products from Bungie ever again. Let them rot as far as I'm concerned...

[@TornadoTeej]

The thing is, we all say “Bungie sucks” including me when it comes to this. But it’s really only a handful of people. It’s a double edged sword. Don’t buy stuff from Bungie and have the remaining staff who want to make the game great, suffer and get laid off as well. OR support the workers who are doing what upper management is letting them do, and let the uppers earn money. I want to support the people there who care. They want to give us a great product like the one source stated “devs want to give the players what they want”. I don’t blame you or anyone that refunds TFS or doesn’t buy it. It just sucks that it’ll hurt the people we don’t want it to hurt.

[@warhawkofchogoris8555]

Community managers, event coordinators, QA and lawyers didn't make or maintain the success of the game, at all.

[@nathanmcginley6453]

What a brave keyboard warrior, no one cares

[@iamoctonate]

​@@nathanmcginley6453A keyboard warrior implies that they are talking a big game because they are behind a keyboard. Nothing they said is a huge leap to do, nor is it something that one wouldn't be willing to say out loud.

[@hectorrivera4005]

@@nathanmcginley6453keyboard Warrior here too, im with the other keyboard warrior in the sentiment

[@Game4Lord]

Bungie has always been horribly anti-consumer. People seem to forget that they were just as slimy under Activision, as they are now. What they're experiencing as of late, is merely the consequences of such actions.

[@ryhanon7]

Not always - just for a long time now. I still remember when they recalled all copies of Myth 2 because of a rare bug rather than just patch it out after the fact - a decision that nearly bankrupted the company. I remember when Total Audio burned down in the late 90s and Bungie made sure all of the revenue from sales of the Myth 2 soundtrack went to Total Audio instead of just paying them their commission as was agreed. I remember the dozens of other great stories about Bungie. At one time they were a great company. They've only really been trash for about 10 years now.

[@Mr.Genesis]

​@@ryhanon7they've been trash since they left halo it's okay to say it.

[@ryhanon7]

@@Mr.Genesis yeah it's almost like that's what I said. Weird.

[@isturbo1984]

You mean their twitter virtue signalling all day doesnt mean they have great gaming practices and culture? who would have thunk?

[@GhostRydr1172]

Absolutely. For the longest time the one thing many former employees have stated is that management is terrible. Crap monetization, content vaulting, and layoffs due to missed projections are just highlights of that crap management.

[@p.ukem0n327]

even Destiny players always hated Destiny. Was just a matter of time before people grew tired of playing and paying for it.

[@GFlight.916]

You pay more than you play.

[@305backup]

Nail on the head. The core gameplay was fun but to stretch the game for so long and expect me to pay 70+ for the deluxe expansions every year? No way in hell, that moment they started seperatimg dungeons from the base expansion i quit.

[@BRUTUSz]

@@305backup used to play on PC years ago. Took a break and came back to start a new account on console. Played 2 years and took a break 4+ months ago. Started playing again on PC, and the shock and horror to think about all the dlc and packs to rebuy. Bought beyond light on key site and now idk at all if want to buy anything more. I sold my console so thats that. I definitely see new players dilemma.

[@wmv8996]

I think bungie relied too heavily on Destiny for too long. They should have come out with another product by now to help diversify their portfolio.

[@alexlexusZXpredator]

Yep. This is why they left ms . They wanted Destiny to be a 10 year game. They felt ms was holding them back with just halo. Now look what it got them.

[@bossredd-77]

They're one studio. It wouldn't be easy to do multiple projects for a studio of Bungies size. Especially with the scope of their game Destiny. One to two games would be realistic for Bungie.

[@alex2jz140]

@@bossredd-77they were a multi-billion dollar acquisition. Them being “one” studio insinuates they are small when they are probably the size of multiple studios combined.

[@EatThePath-7]

@@alexlexusZXpredator 10 year franchise, not game (Destiny was originally 4 games across 10 years, similar to og Halo) I honestly don't think it was a bad thing they fought and even left MS/Halo to get Destiny made. It's cool if they want to make new IP (we all know this industry needs more of that), and Destiny for all it's faults was definitely a passion project for them (Just look at how it combines aspects from every previous franchise: Marathon, Myth and Halo DNA, all over it), but how they went about it is what truly ruined it... GaaS just doesn't lend itself for a quality product, i wish Destiny wasn't GaaS, just a cool FPS with RPG elements.

[@Jet-ij9zc]

​@@bossredd-77they have about 1200 employees. For reference, insomniac had about 400 in 2021. Fromsoft has a little under 400. Mojang has about 600. Bungie definitely has the headcount required to make multiple games.

[@Tedakin]

The term "micro" transaction needs to go. These are macrotransactions. 25 dollars for an Overwatch skin. 12 dollars for a Mortal Kombat fatality. It's all ridiculous.

[@surrounndedbyClowns]

I can afford the dlc's and my friends can too, but whenever i bring up about the inflated prices and the confusing dlc packs in the steam store and locking dungeons away from season pass , in forums, people always call me out for being cheap, poor or broke. When all my friends left the game (ALL OF THEM), I knew this is happening everywhere and not just with my friend circle and i know something like what just happened to bungie was bound to happen and im glad i was right and all those bungie shield can suck it.

[@brian197686]

It seems to me that real world is finally catching up to the folks in the video game industry. When you can't afford groceries, you certainly can't afford a game that's basically for Whales.

[@jonathansnyder9848]

Cancelled my preorder, uninstalled the game. What they did to their employees is unacceptable and I can’t justify giving them another dime

[@ginopippofrebooter-ilrinne2881]

See you in a year in-game.

[@fissilepear7805]

⁠@@Walter_Stroudhe just said he cancelled his preorder thus not paying for it. And obviously they do care if they’re firing people over a 45% revenue drop

[@DJohn0991]

From a gamer perspective, I feel like the horrible monetization of the game , the shady spending algorithms with the Estore/silver bundles to never give you the exact amount of silver needed (you’re always just short or slightly over the amount needed) to purchase gear , the absurd amount of money the gear costs and just a severely underwhelming experience with gambit /pvp/ seasonal content which leads to fans not wanting to spend money let alone even play this game anymore . Me personally , taking a much needed break from this game has been such a great thing for me

[@eugenehavens]

The uneven store / silver bundles are something old Bungie would never have stooped to. It’s pretty much the only evidence you need that Bungie is Activision with a different name.

[@DJohn0991]

@@eugenehavensmannn it’s the most scumbag/sleeziest thing that a company could ever done specially to loyal fans who have spent hundreds supporting this game . Hell, even the fact that we can’t pay real money and just buy the content is shady . Paid in-game currency is one of the biggest rip offs in modern gaming ever .

[@kufudokungfu]

Thats done on purpose thats hownl they get you to spend more ita shitty gamebling tatics

[@TheSilentTiger89]

Same, felt like a weight lifted off my shoulders when I uninstalled D2 after seeing the reviews for LightFall.

[@BALTDGuitar]

This is not a bungie thing this is literally every currency ever nitpicking at this is taking away attention from the actual core issues that lead to this

[@BlindRiott]

I’m done with Bungie, not another dime!

[@angrykagg421]

Here is ONE of the problems. Bungie kept pushing that destiny was an mmo, but had no mmo elements. You do log in randomly to mess around for 30 minutes to a few hours in an mmo because it supports that kind of engagement. Farming strikes in now way gives a boost to your character in the long run compared to farming materials to lvl a profession in wow or gw2.

[@dathip]

Anyone think, vaulting or making players not able to play old content in destiny 2 may have contributed to this percentage loss whether small or big? Like not being able to play red war, curse of osiris or warmind?

[@GFlight.916]

Technically Bungie owes me money. All the content I paid for, that is no longer available.

[@kushcrusad3rgb549]

Especially since people PAID for it. Me included, stopped playing after beyond light.

[@Jet-ij9zc]

​@@kushcrusad3rgb549same, 40 CAD$ for the 30th anniversary was the last straw for me

[@AgentZarkov_2133]

I know people who stopped playing for this very reason.

[@martyk656]

That's why I stopped. I gave them a 2nd chance right before Lightfall based on all the people saying Witch Queen was as good as D1 at its zenith. Lightfall was them reverting back to selling mediocre crap at a premium. I wasn't enjoying the game, I was only playing because I'd spent money on the content. When they announced stealing shards from players without any compensation, I vowed to never play another Bungie game again. I'm happily playing BG3, Starfield, Jagged Alliance 3, Minecraft and even Fallout 76 and GTA 5. Two live service games that I can play all the content without spending an extra nickel - and I have no fear they'll ever take away my Caps or my GTA Dollars.

[@jorijoestar4998]

I have 400 hours on BG3, I haven't even finished the main campaign

[@TheWholeGrainBread_Real]

Missing revenue by 45% is a huge issue. The issue is they missed this even with Destiny 2 being profitable. Destiny 2 clearly did not help Bungie.

[@ThePackman627]

its projections, the management made terrible unrealistic projections. They could be making boatloads of money but if the projections are so high, you can't reach them

[@warhawkofchogoris8555]

They clearly overshot for the Sony acquisition

[@williammclelland6323]

I'm done with Bungie and there bad practices

[@GFlight.916]

Respect. I hope you mean it.

[@eugenehavens]

@@GFlight.916Exactly. How many players have said, even after this latest dirty laundry, “gonna finish the final shape, then I’m out.”

[@GFlight.916]

@eugenehavens most, if not all. Even aztecross says he's "gonna see it through to the end" of course as a youtuber, his channel depends on D2 content.

[@fissilepear7805]

@@eugenehavensthey’re gonna live off the copium out out by Bungie Thursday when they said the final shape will be a forsaken or taken king level expansion even though we all know it won’t be. Destiny players have become such sheep that they simply cannot have an ounce of self control

[@ari.nogueira]

It's always good to see you and Paul doing videos together, too bad it is an unfortunate situation, heartbreaking actually. But thanks for the very professional and elucidate video!

[@phantombigboss8429]

I saw this coming for years. No empathy at all maybe instead focusing on and pushing politics and pandering to crazy people Bungie should have made the game good.

[@chuckyluvsu13]

When it comes to gaming news, no one delivers it like Destin does !!

[@Omgitsjoshers123]

Destiny 2 was destined to fail from its conception. The absolute poor optimization meant they had to pick and choose which portions of the existing game to keep as new DLCs came out. When they removed the Destiny 2 campaign and intro section, it killed the game for any new players. Their continued “vaulting” of fan favorites did not go over well. Idk the solution here but perhaps going back and optimizing the game should be a priority.

[@fissilepear7805]

The solution was simple: pull a Master Chief collection and split up campaigns/content into download packages so that while the game in total would be 300+ gb, players could pick and choose what they want. From there, offload all campaign experiences onto servers run off the player’s device as to reduce load on Bungie servers and instead have servers dedicated only to pve, gambit, strikes, patrols and seasonal activities. But obviously that wouldn’t and will never happen considering how spaghetti coded Destiny 2 is even after all the engine overhauls and code cleanup as D2 is ultimately an upgraded D1 which is based off the Halo Reach architecture. So I imagine it is a nightmare for junior employees to learn this code and considering they just fired so much senior staff, we’re not gonna see any major work done anytime soon.

[@BadTB25]

I stopped playing Destiny 2 over a year ago and frankly I don't care if they ever recover. How many times do we need to get an apology statement from Bungie with promises that they will do better before you finally give up on them? When they were with MS, it was Microsoft's fault. When they were with ABK, it was ABK's fault. Now we should realize that it was always Bungie's execs that was the problem. Inevitably it'll be Sony's turn to be the Bungie scapegoat.

[@edes01]

Love the interview. Bungie’s greed and micro-transaction riddled Destiny 2 is done to me. I drank the cool aid all the way since vanilla Destiny 1. Every excuse that they made to the community. Time for senior executives at the company feel the disappointment of the community.

[@TheXeroLink]

14:11 my feelings exactly they keep asking for more and more of our time…and in retrospect I’ve missed out on so many other gaming experiences because of the attention the game required to even just play and keep relevant

[@mantid83]

It's going to be 60% below target soon. I think Sony/Bungie already expected it with the layoffs and more coming.

[@warhawkofchogoris8555]

"The community is shaken...and needs to heal"? Bro, people got laid off, it's really not that deep.

[@COREcasual]

The only people left leading bungie are the ones who have been actively refusing to listen to player feedback... it will not get better

[@techextremist2545]

It’s not upselling; it’s nickel-and-dime your customers with micro-transactions with prices that are so ridiculously high and out of touch that it is pissing people off. It’s that and dozens of other little things in the game that never gets fixed that over time was slowly eroding at the foundations of this game’s loyal player base over the years and its now finally cracked and making Destiny and Bungie sliding down the cliff into the abyss… 🤷🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️

[@Ty-er5ok]

Hey Destin. You made a point that the drop-off on destiny 2 is also due to players having other choices like Elden Ring, God of War Ragnorok, Hogwarts Legacy, etc., and just plain sick and tired of a game feeling like a job. That's why I bailed on Destiny right before Final Shape came out. I never had time for other games, and just got sick of doing strikes, etc, just to get the latest weapon or shader, and I'd been playing steadily since the launch of vanilla D2. I was really invested in the story but as It became clear that as an older solo player, I was no longer part of their plans, I bailed. Part of it was I was turned off by a lot by the increasing microtransactions and what I saw from Lightfall (I'm talking about YOU cloud striders.) That being said, I might come back to see how Cayde comes back, but not much more beyond that. After so many great solo games over the last two years without microtransactions and being manipulated to feel I HAD to log in every day, I'm just done with that model.

[@kirkden71]

This must be a factor as to why they were purchased by sony. They may have been looking for a safety net and found sony.

[@stampiboy1]

Sony couldn't handle it that's it . stop the cap

[@lycanwarrior2137]

Another KZbin channel made that same observation.

[@stampiboy1]

@@lycanwarrior2137 ohhhhh my god I just cant !!!! Sony aproched them with offer not the other way around !!! After sony purchase them they went to hell !!!

[@yadeel8281]

Sony didn't have much to do with the layoffs happening at Bungie, that was Bungie's execs.@@stampiboy1

[@DoomiePookie]

@@stampiboy1 Destiny 2 was on the rocks well before sony purched them. This is literally all bungie wanted to work on before sony bought them out. Bungie want 10 years of destiny as a live service. This wasnt a sony call. This bungie explosion is all on bungie themselves. Even the devs internally/bungie themselves the last couple of days have said this has nothing to do with sony.

[@2leftfeet113]

That's the problem with the service model. Companies focus on the service because that's where they make the most money. Gamers are focused on the game. You can't sell a product that's inferior at the highest possible price and be surprised when it doesn't sell. Focus on making good games and you'll have customers. Focus on services you'll have investors who expect outrageous amounts of money that are impossible to make.

[@Megascream79]

I was wondering when you'd say something on this. It's good to see you and Paul working together!

[@miguelcordova8680]

They are never going to financial recover from this 😂. All I kept thinking of was Joe exotic reading the title.

[@CriPPleR_HD]

I have not pre-ordered or purchased any game with a season pass this year. Playing dope games back to back like Hogwarts Legacy, Zelda, Baldur’s Gate, Phantom Liberty, and Alan Wake 2 broke me out of game as a service drug. I feel sober now.

[@funtourhawk]

2077/PL on Very Hard scratches that Destiny itch pretty good...and I don't have to deal with all the repetitive bullshit in D2

[@frankremson7435]

Totally agree with what you're saying around this being bad timing with the moral and player count etc. I do think that a lot of people playing this game over the last 10 years will jump in to see the final expansion. I know I will, and I am praying it won't be a total let down like dying light. I just have to know how the story ends. This has been a pretty big part of my life over the last ten years enjoying the journey and dealing with the ups and downs. I really hope they nail this ending. I think the players really deserve one hell of a last stand.

[@DestinL]

It's bad right now and will take years to get where they were, but I think they eventually recover.

[@basedlibertyprime]

Happy to see bungie destroying itself, hopefully they can’t absolutely scam people anymore.

[@eugenehavens]

I don’t understand anyone saying,,“in the end, they’ll be fine.” This mess is a result of years of shady psychological manipulation and monetary schemes. And then we find out, management was doing it to the employees as well!

[@fissilepear7805]

Yeah there’s no way “they’ll be fine” even just internally considering if Michael Salvatori was fired, what’s keeping any other employee from risking losing their jobs? Bungie utterly ruined their image with this move and showed their true colors. There is no fixing this

[@eugenehavens]

@@fissilepear7805 Lowest player count ever on Steam. Players mass refunding their FS preorders. And Bungie pins its hopes on a niche MP game in Marathon, an extraction shooter nobody asked for but the hackers who will ruin it. Can the studio survive their poor decisions and fan backlash? With their current culture, can they make a hit game?

[@stevenanthony2482]

I cancelled my preorder for the first time in the history of destiny. I can’t handle the levels of contempt shown to the people who lost their jobs & I don’t like how the community has been treated by Bungie management; we’ve been promised lots, charged lots, lost lots & for me, enough is enough.

[@TheOldest]

As someone that was a strong fan of Bungie back when they were supporting Halo this is extremely sad to see what the company has become. I dropped Destiny when the original game launched, didn't support paying for story content after buying a full price game it was a predatory model to retain players. Years later it's finally caught up with Bungie, don't like seeing good hard working devs losing their jobs especially when those who made the decisions leading to this are still working, hope every makes it through this ordeal.

[@ryhanon7]

I've been a huge fan of Bungie since the early 90s - well before most people ever heard of them. I even briefly worked for them back in the Myth 2 days. They used to be my favorite developer - but they've been absolute trash for years now. I don't think they can recover because those at the top care more about their own bottom line than they do the players, their employees, or even the games they make. They've become a cash grabbing live service trash factory and I just don't see them recovering any time soon - if at all.

[@SomeGuyFromUtah]

It really bothers me that they fired people and those people lost stock options related to the aquisition. I haven't played D2 since witch queen launch (even though I had the annual pass for Witch Queen). Now I have a reason to purposely avoid the company. Unrealistic expectations... I think they are really in trouble because this pretty move proves they overvalued the company when Sony bought it. Gaming is changing. I think the playerbase of all games is going down because there's so many games going for a piece of the pie. The whole market has to adjust.

[@method2122]

They lost all my respect when they decided to make you sit through 10000 adds before you can play the "loading simulator" and took all the expansions everyone payed for with no compassion

[@s9523pink]

I think what they need to do next season or the abyss that may come, thereafter, is unvault all the planets they vaulted, and go back to jumping around all of them to fulfill some missions, quests, and so on🎉

[@dramacelcia]

The higher ups probably set the target so high thinking they released something good.. Destiny 2 has lost alot of its player base a long time ago myself included and a few of my friends and it may seem so miniscule, but it really adds up to that 45% in sales. My friend was a hardcore Destiny fan and played the game until one expansion that paywalled a dungeon and he finally realized how bad of a company they are and finally called it quits. Devs are for the people mostly, but the people who actually run the show are not in it for you the consumers.

[@funkyrealcat2054]

They set the target high because Lightfall sold a lot and then flopped, simple as that.

[@myfakeempire101]

Started in D1 vanilla and played constantly through the years. I stopped midway through witch queen, which is arguably the strongest expansion. Elden Ring released at the same time, and playing that made me realize how stale Destiny had become overall. Haven’t been back since and don’t plan to 😢

[@trent_E]

When is Space Marine 2 coming out?!?!? Still no release date 😢

[@jimmythegamer2231]

What does that even have to do with the video?

[@trent_E]

EVERYTHING!!!!!

[@oots4790]

The problem is they dont care if 99% dont buy microtransations. The 1% that do, buy sssoooo much that it makes it worth it.

[@lunagrace2872]

Yep the whales.

[@goodwolf152]

I think the next concern (in a series of many concerns) is people voluntarily leaving Bungie, now. I know if I were there, I would be looking for the escape hatch. It does take time to find a new job, but I expect this to be the event that starts a lot of their talented devs looking elsewhere. Has happened at other big name studios, and those places are now shells of their former selves (BioWare, anyone?). So even if Bungie survives, I doubt it will be in a form we really recognize.

[@905JimRaynor]

the more talented and accomplished you are the easier it is to get a job. lazy, idiots never leave. the good people leave as soon as things start going sideways. when a lazy idiot is fired they immediately finger point racism/sexism/anti-LBGT etc etc.

[@kingcurmudgeon8685]

If People can voluntarily leave a job they must really have it good.

[@905JimRaynor]

@@kingcurmudgeon8685 most extremely hard working very talented people have it really good.

[@ASackOfPotatoes]

2020 set unrealistic long term expectations for gaming as a whole. I think this is partially due to that. They hit a ceiling that was unsustainable, over-hired and over-developed for a market that was never going to stay that way and now the chickens are coming home to roost. Bungie has it's own issues and that's just made SO MUCH WORSE with everything they did wrong at Playstation

[@joemurray]

I loved uncharted 2s multiplayer. Heart goes out to those who got laid off at bungie. I really resonated to when you mentioned about value for time. I have 4K hours on the game. 1k being pvp. The lack of maps and balance changes in PvP caused me to try more competitive and balanced options with better connections. I’ve always loved raiding and dungeons. I feel the gameplay of destiny 2 shooting wise and jumping feels great. I’m still hopeful for the Final Shape. However, other games have drawn my attention with their innovation. The monetisation of Destiny 2 also makes it difficult to introduce friends into the franchise. Loved both of your insights

[@wonkabars6982]

These guys had the audacity to talk up all that mess at Naughty Dog and get Factions basically cancelled. Bungie deserves everything coming at them for their betrayal of one of the most loyal fanbases in gaming.

[@UTxTheArchangel]

When you think about the release window of season of the witch, and what games released in the same window(Fall window, which is still ongoing), its not surprising the game lost players during the season, even if its considered a good season. I remember when the season was revealed I was like "I'm not gonna have time for that season, Baldur's Gate 3, Phantom Liberty, Lies of P, Armored Core, I had just got RE4 Remake on sale, Dead Space remake as well...." Destiny is a game you have to commit too for the entirety of its seasons, which was not a good formula. If someone's options are only play this 1 game or go play 6-10 other games on your own time, when you want, they will choose the latter.

[@davidkitchen6901]

No surprise to anyone who's played their game over the last 3 years. They introduced gambling techniques into their game, which in the short term makes them more profitable, but in the longer term their hardcore players leave and don't return thereby seeing a reduction in profit. They haven't learned their lessons from Curse of Osiris and you could see this coming a mile off.

[@golddragongaming1]

Given Destiny is making content unavailable after charging for it and then only bringing it back only if you spend more money on it, the Destiny MTs actually make Diablo 4's look amazing by comparison not the other way around. At least Diablo 4 is only selling cosmetics not removing content and then re-charging for it.

[@elidasilva5558]

They layoff most of their talent and it's been years since they did something that made the community happy so Bungie has they're Blizzard moment

[@SuperLayercake]

From once an industry darling, that can do no wrong, to one of the most anti-consumer gaming companies. '' You Reap What You Sow. ''

[@305backup]

They need to learn what happens when you spit in the face of the customer. A dlc shouldnt have multiple editions with multiple paywalls on top of battle passes, cosmetic shops, level boosts, on and on it goes with these people.

[@henrickrw]

Sony budgeted million of dollars for employee retention as part of the acquisition. Bungie deserves to be law suit. They should have fired their upper management instead.

[@RedShadowOfSaturn]

It really saddens me that people talk about Destiny and the live service "genre" in general, as if Warframe doesn't not only exist, but also address the majority of Destiny's biggest pain points directly...from the seasonal model, the FOMO, crafting, gameplay variety, the new player experience, monetization, narrative, easter eggs...obviously it has its own degrees of those issues, and I'm mainly talking about PvE...but so many of those key things are vastly better that what Destiny provides. That's not to say the live service bubble isn't bursting and/or going to be less desirable to invest in, but games like Warframe and Path of Exile have been really killing it in terms of the quality of their content and making what they release fun and worth it, and yet all I still see is people lamenting Destiny as the end-all be-all of live services... While Destiny is literally one of the worst, if not THE worst, live service on the market. I understand a lot of people have emotional connections to it, but the game objectively has been terrible, and some slightly more fun seasonal mechanics that will be gone by Final Shape aren't enough to make the game vastly more interesting or help it reach its true potential.

[@acidangel111]

Paul tassi there is a magic wand , its called game pass . Microsoft seems to have found the games as a service as a core feature monthly. Sony wants to get there , but doesnt have the infrastructure nor capital nor know how to do it. PERIOD.

[@joypadbandit624]

THIS is the correct answer! 👍

[@varroktorgan755]

I just want to say you can farm diablo cosmetics through deconstruction/salvaging, you can’t farm shop cosmetics, BIG difference for technicality’s sake.

[@dustin_echoes]

Look onto the bright side. I hope bungie falls so that sony may let some other studio have a go at the destiny IP. Maybe an actually good single player game can come out of it.

[@furiousgeorge4430]

One way or a another it all comes down to 1 thing GRREEEEDDDD !!!

[@grief101f2]

bungie pushed a lot of players away listening to streamers scream MAKE IT HARDER!!! casuals and solo's walked away, add that to expansion/dlc price hike's making it more expensive than most AAA games. and nothing more than reskinned content. im not saying this is the main cause of this disaster but it all mounts up. treat players right and they will be loyal treat players like shit and away they go .

[@jhermannitj]

Can I ask a question... maybe, I'm missing something. Full disclosure I posted this on the Bungie forums as well. So, there's apparently 'new' reporting that confirms older reports (that were backtracked/redacted) that is suggesting now... or, at least being characterized by one Paul Tassi, that Sony actually saved Destiny 2. And if Sony had never bought out Bungie, the franchise would have been doomed to fail. As he did in the beginning Mr. Tassi is trying to absolve Sony and place 100% of the blame at the feet of Bungie management. Does that make sense? And here's the question I alluded to: If that is true... why is Pete Parsons still there? Certainly, his vestment for stock benefits per the buyout is a significant sum. Why was no upper-level management let go? If revenue is down 45% for the year... and no one is disputing that information, how does a 10% cut of labor solve the issue? How is that saving Destiny 2? How do you let that mismanagement continue? Furthermore, if the franchise was supposed to continue post Final Shape, how does letting go both the senior composers make sense? Now, I'm going to play cutthroat right now... I get Salvatori... because he's been with Bungie since Halo and his vested stock was probably worth a huge savings. Why the other senior composer? Why both? Why get rid of the Michael Sechrist? That seems like an asset you wouldn't want to lose, if the franchise was to continue, wouldn't it? I know people will try to impugn me, say I'm prejudicial against Sony... I'm just looking for logical sense of it. The problem still remains, doesn't it? If Tassi's new reversal is correct, if it is accurate that "Sony saved Destiny 2".... tell me how. If, the fault and blame are solely at the feet of Bungie upper-level management, and they're all still there.... what actually got fixed? I'm just asking what seems to be the obvious questions. Let's not forget that these cuts coincided with what is a reported restructuring happening across Sony's entire gaming division. Or, that many have confirmed that cuts were at the direction of Sony. If they have the discretion and power to demand those cuts... why would they allow the root of the problem (upper-level management) to remain? How does that make sense? How does any of that make sense? And, how... per Mr. Paul Tassi's new reporting, that seems to be fluff piece trying to absolve Sony of any culpability, did Sony actually save Destiny 2 visa vie Bungie? Bungie is literally more than 10% of Sony's entire gaming portfolio per estimates of a 30 billion dollar market cap... 3.6% of the entire companies net worth at 100 billion. And they're down 45% for the year... ? And you just let that be? It doesn't make sense. In no reality, or world where logic exists... could this be true. And listen, I'm in no way... giving a pass to Bungie management. But... If Tassi's reporting and sources are accurate, how are any senior level executives still with Bungie? Why? It doesn't make sense. Paul Tassi has been going back n' forth... reporting, retracting, editing... twisting in knots. I'm just trying to make sense of the whole thing. ... someone please explain it to me, maybe I'm missing something 😇👍💠. I would love for this reporting by Tassi to be true. Sony is saving... has saved Destiny 2? Tell me how... if the systemic bad management remains, how are things better now?

[@lancebloke]

I think there are a lot of people they permanently lost after Lightfall, me included. The only thing that might bring me back in is a Destiny 3 with a very big change up in how the game works, new enemies (not more reskins), totally new guns, new player characters, destinations and mechanics... so basically a different game.

[@Diegomir7]

This was a sad episode of Fireteam Chat but it's been ages since I saw Destin. Bungie manages to unite us in very weird ways.

[@rager1969]

When Sony bought them, I thought it was a bad match and they overpaid. Now, I KNOW they overpaid. I'm glad that MS didn't buy them when Bungie was shopping for buyers.

[@st.paddymad7085]

Very hard to tell if they can even recover at all at this point.

[@EdwardViaTomato]

I don't get the projections in the first place. As someone who tried to get into Destiny 2 when it was all on Game Pass, it was always limited to a sunk cost player base. I also didn't/don't get PlayStation's strategy with GaaS. I usually consider myself to be a poor representation of the gaming market itself, but it's been weirdly in-line (or falling in-line) with my sentiments over the past few years.

[@Aaronnpool23]

As someone who started out with halo and then destiny with bungie it’s completely sad that they chose to fire the employees who were making them succeed and become profitable. All to save shares in the company that’s so cheap. Imagine the hardworking men and women who spent overtime or long days working on the game and not seeing family to make a pay check, just to get fired. Yeah, I’m not going to be buying shit from this company and have stopped playing destiny 2 as soon as a heard about this a couple weeks ago.

[@NotALotOfColonial_SpaghettiToG]

Yeah, what they did is fucking awful. Lorraine Mclees said she was tenured in and that didn't save her, and she was a bungie employee from 1999-2023.

[@xROJANBOx]

If Microsoft was canny about this they'd reach out to these Halo veterans and get them back into the fold, Halo Infinite with its new management is going in the right direction.

[@tea9721]

Respectfully, there were zero halo veterans working at modern Bungie

[@nathandayfilms]

I love the sentiment and would celebrate this! But they recently had layoffs at 343 and a few other studios so it isn’t super likely unfortunately

[@ibrohiem]

​@@tea9721That's not true there was a few guys that quit Bungie to jump over to 343 industries.

[@bossredd-77]

Those people who worked on Halo so many years ago are no longer at Bungie. Music composer Michael Salvatori was one of the people who got fired. He worked on music and sound for the Bungie Halo games along with Martin O'Donnell. Bungies legacy left that company long ago.

[@murr9704]

They should have stuck with Microsoft.

[@reapersasmr5483]

I dunno I am done with it . Pvp is trash , delays , last dlc was horrible, but that's just me and my friends

[@michaelfoster9964]

If the layoffs happened right after Lightfall’s crappy release, these layoffs would make a lot more sense.

[@Jolis_Parsec]

Nah, Bunghole’s effectively signed their own DNR form for Sony to shut them down with. 😂

[@sunny-sq6ci]

i haven't played d2 for going on almost 6 months. i recently uninstalled d2 to make room for starfield and forza on my series x. it pisses me off that after playing destiny since d1 alpha, bungie decided they really were just activision and now sony.

[@beatzbyjay24]

They treated us like shit saying they will not over deliver making us pay more for expansions but give us way less cmon now how long before you think the community gets fed up with there bullshit. Are you happy paying almost the full price for a game and you get 1 strike, no pvp maps, 1 raid with 2 bosses, new empty destination, meaningless exotics, no gambit maps, how much more can the consumer take?

[@ThomasPetermann.]

Well one thing I see no one talking about is that this will be the final act of the story, people will just jump off the game because they brought their story to an end. Just look at Marvel, after endgame people don't care about it anymore.

[@koopaslayer7598]

As a player that started late I lost interest when I found out previous story content from other seasons aren’t available anymore

[@foxter555]

Agreed with Destins comment on the repetition in games. Was really burnt out with D2 doing that so much.

[@tynomite]

I’m glad I got away from destiny within the first year of D2. I have very fond memories of raiding with the homies on d1 though

[@jermelpurse3018]

45% that’s not over projecting a little when you say say we missed our expected revenue goal by nearly half that’s detrimental. If you are a company and you’re expecting to make $20 million hypothetically and you only make 10 you have problems big big BIG problems. That is when you need to start thinking about employee headcount that is when you have to start thinking about are you truly being successful or not. You don’t hear businesses go out there and say we missed revenue by 50% and stick around long. If you say something like that and you’re a publicly traded company, your stock balls I don’t mean just dropped 10 or 20 or 30% you might crater the company and go bankrupt. When you hear a 45% you guys need to understand in financial terms. Those are not numbers we joke with. Those are numbers that the president of the company shows up and have to ask what is going on. I work at a production facility when we miss our production goals by 10% or 20% heads Rolla I mean people at the top get fired because they ask how did this get screwed up.

[@MickeyFKNMouse]

This year is the year bungie needed! They got far too complacent in what they gave us. They need to move away from the annual releases and bring out expansions when they’re ready to release them. It’s back to the old activision years of lacklustre content every year because they expect expansions too often. This 8 story mission on big releases needs to end too. It’s too little and too much scope to be lazy. They needed for us players to lose interest after too much crap we’ve been fed. It’s also not fair to say it’s Sonys fault! This was a long time coming. Bungie needs to change how they release

[@urazz7739]

Well, I imagine Sony is probably regretting buying Bungie now.

[@michaellane5381]

The thing i always wonder about these properties you might know Destin, is would there be some impossible turn around time to just re-release a game like Destiny 2 Season by Season? Or is all that data lost and trying might as well be building a full game again?

[@Dredd2042]

I used to play Destiny at some point but then moved over to the The Division franchise. And now The Division even confirmed The Division 3. So if you need a different RPG looter shooter thats an option.

[@majestyzx9081]

Well when you buy a company in retaliation to the purchase of a large publisher, you put expectations on that purchase. Sony put Bungie in a position to fail and did the surprised Pikachu meme when they did.

[@AnthonyAlvarado78]

It's never about the money...but its all about the money. They milked everyone and don't care if it dies. People thet work on the game aren't the people that make the decisions.

[@Beafyjesus]

A new mission each week. Not an arena that is infinitely repayable. A couple new strikes each season and pvp maps.

[@carlossolano5103]

I was hoping to see factions 2 sometime this year. Factions was my favorite MP for years. Wish ND was able to show it like they wanted

[@shadowjack2k]

This has been the most despair over a hundred person layoff in ever. Destin, you're the first person to mention the real issue: Those revenue projections definitly result from Sonys acquisition P&L. Thats simply how corp. acquisitions are done. Sony cannot be happy.

[@hazmatt187]

Ultimately, it's still Sony's studio now . If Destiny keeps up the way it's going and Marathon is meh, nothing stops Sony from doing what it wants with an underperformed investment . I don't see droves of players going to play an extraction shooter. it seems like it's a niche game mode. Sure, we have Tarkov but that's probably the only extraction shooter doing decent numbers with players . I think you guys put up a good point with both games that need to be fricken amazing for the life of Bungie

[@vjbd2757]

Honestly, the Destiny series was never that great. Destiny 1 was lacking a lot of content and features at launch and had to rely on DLC to fill out anything missing. Destiny 2 is also no different just this time it has way more microtransactions.

[@loy8614]

Love some Paul vs. Destin!!

[@swisschoco25]

I would answer the question with a question: The guy that told a crowd full of developers "do not overdeliver and do not overpromise "still employed with Bungie along with other parts of management who agreed with the motto? If the answer is yes, then my answer is no. Not fully. Bungie has been allowed to release subpar content for a while and yet gamers were still playing and spending money. Everyone who approved and signed off on that PPT presentation should be fired, but yet they are not. They are still there making decisions. That PPT basically said that Destiny players are so loyal we can put out subpar content and they we will continue to see record high player engagement and record profits. In the PPT they more than likely had charts showing player engagement by month and profit margins.

[@cliftonjackson441]

I hope not bad businesses deserve to go under

[@TheSilentTiger89]

Bungie is in shambles and they don’t want anyone to know, hence why they layed off their community managers.

[@ledizzy2634]

I've been waiting for the day Bungie push their monetisation and content cutting so much that they dig their own grave. It's a good day.

[@ladyx5556]

I totaly agree with this comment 👍

[@als1668]

We are seeing the culminative effects of all bungie leadership decisions since even before the Activision separation. Damn I just want destiny2 to be fun again.

[@GFlight.916]

Bungie doesn not deserve to recover from this. Unfortunately the pay pigs, and especially the D2 shills like you guys, are gonna keep coming back and falsely convince Bungie that they deserve another chance.

[@ladyx5556]

👍