Will Hell Eventually Be Abolished Debate

[@chrisnewbern2639]

I have been a believer in Universal Reconciliation for nearly 7 years. When someone asks, "Do you believe that Hitler is going to be in heaven?" I respond, "Do you believe that everyone who doesn't know Christ Jesus as Lord and Savior in this life will be in an eternal hell?" And if they are honest about the doctrine to which they say they adhere they have to respond in the affirmative. I then say to them. "You seem to be so repulsed by the idea of Hitler being in heaven. Yet you don't seem to be very concerned that, according to that doctrine, the 6 million murdered Jews that rejected Jesus of Nazareth as the Messiah are in hell with Hitler. Have you thought about that?"

[@GeorgeWSarris]

Very well said, Chris! I may steal that line from you! God bless.

[@TheHumbuckerboy]

Have you checked out the late Michele Amarault's testimony ?

[@chrisnewbern2639]

@@TheHumbuckerboy yes

[@TheHumbuckerboy]

@@chrisnewbern2639 I hope that you found Michele's testimony and presentations to have been a blessing ?

[@deeveevideos]

Amen. I came to the same conclusion.

[@paulatomlins1852]

Freedom? If you're trapped in hell for billions upon billions of years, how is that freedom?

[@GeorgeWSarris]

Good observation, for sure! God bless.

[@cherylwilliams4738]

Well, didn't God already choose all of mankind anyhow? Isn't the Father, Son and Holy Spirit in ALL mankind. {Even before we said "the magic prayer"}

[@KevinGeneFeldman]

If nothing that exists exists apart from God, then all things that exist are part of God. So when the Bible says "and through Him to reconcile to Himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through the blood of His cross.", do we not then have to conclude that anything that exists must then be made right with God in the end? How could billions of people be suffering in sin and pain if they are part of God and not reconciled to him? Nothing can exist apart from him, so how can they be separated? It doesn't make sense.

[@theunicornreader]

Great discussion! :) You are right, God does not change. "Love never gives up, never loses faith, is always hopeful, and endures through every circumstance." (1 Cor. 13:7). If God is love, He will NEVER give up on us. It's people who believe in ECT who twist God into not always being Himself. Thank you for such a powerful speech! :)

[@GeorgeWSarris]

Thank you for the encouragement. God is good!

[@theunicornreader]

Yes He is! God bless you, sir.

[@OperationReapSinners777]

Laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life. SINNERS TAKE HEED LAY HOLD OF ETERNAL LIFE, GOD IS SOON TO COME! Psa 37:9 For evildoers shall be cut off: but those that wait upon the LORD, they shall inherit the earth. Psa 37:10 For yet a little while, and the wicked shall not be: yea, thou shalt diligently consider his place, and it shall not be. Psa 37:11 But the meek shall inherit the earth; and shall delight themselves in the abundance of peace. Isa 13:9 - Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it. Isa 13:10 - For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine. Isa 13:11 - And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible. Mal 4:1 - For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch. Mal 4:2 - But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall. Mal 4:3 - And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts. Rev 20:11 - And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. Rev 20:12 - And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. Rev 20:13 - And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. Rev 20:14 - And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. Rev 20:15 - And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

[@mr.e1220]

@@theunicornreader do you study the Bible? Do you still hold to the doctrine of Christian universalism? I want to, but I think there are entirely too many verses that prove God will destroy the wicked. I don't believe in Eternal conscious torment, but I do see that not everyone will enter the kingdom of God.

[@TheMorning_Son]

@@theunicornreader yes! I've also made some videos my latest one Christ The Conqueror of hell. Eternal hell believers deny God Himself because of their unbelief in Him

[@russe130]

The guys defense in defending eternal torment is way off.he says that God cannot be a good God if hell doesn't exist forever. Exactly the opposite is true. These people cannot accept the fact that the translators misinterpreted the English bibles

[@jasonegeland1446]

Couldn't have said it any better!

[@Spartanthermopylae]

@Russ Ervin "The guys defense in defending eternal torment is way off." Based on your misunderstanding of God's love?

[@Hibernial]

Jesus criticized the Pharisees for holding to doctrines of men, and he criticized the Sadducees for not believing in the resurrection. I would think that sums up the two problems persistent within institutionalized christendom which is like a mental veil between a (nominal) believer in Christ and the Father. Really knowing Jesus Christ in his resurrection and glory in the restoration of all things only draws a man to the Father.

[@Spartanthermopylae]

@@Hibernial This doesn't address the heresy of Universalism/Restorationism...as YOU interpret it.

[@Spartanthermopylae]

@@Hibernial "Jesus criticized the Pharisees for holding to doctrines of men"...as Universalists do. "he criticized the Sadducees for not believing in the resurrection"...resurrection isn't the same as Universalism; John 5:28, 29 makes it clear that ALL will be resurrected...not ALL restored. "a mental veil between a (nominal) believer in Christ and the Father"...looks like the Holy Spirit doesn't exist for you. "the restoration of all things" Doesn't mean that ALL will be saved. Maybe, you can explain the context of ALL and its meaning.

[@justin10292000]

Calvinism: God is cruel. Arminianism: God is weak. Trinitarian Restorationism: God is Love.

[@maskkeeperduffy9069]

I couldn't believe how awful John's argument was. God is going to leave people in Hell forever because He loves them? Nonsense. Your illustration about loving your child but not letting her run into the street was spot on. John said we aren't children, but you were right. In the eyes of God we *are* children.

[@jasonegeland1446]

Yes, I agree. I don't think God views us in terms of age, just his kids being "hyper-active" at times.

[@jdoe7674]

@@jasonegeland1446 not even that think about this look at a child compared to yourself in terms of knowledge u obviously know way more than a child even if there not yours as an adult it’s your responsibility to protect children so if you see someone else’s child about to run into the street being an intellectual superior to that child your suppose to stop them by any means necessary even if that means grabbing them and pulling them away from the road against there will and no judge in there right mind would tell you that you were wrong to violate the child’s free will in that way and God is infinitely more just than any human judge yes the Bible says we can’t understand his ways but that’s because his ways are so great not because they are so different he gave us a sense of right and wrong a moral compass he didn’t ask us to completely abandon that moral compass in order to be saved and my moral compass tells me eternal suffering is wrong even for the person that supposedly wants it

[@jasonegeland1446]

I agree with you ten fold.

[@jasonegeland1446]

I don't need to be persuaded that unending punishment is nonsense. I don't believe we have free will, just a flawed one. We're on the same page. God will absolutely step on our feet if needed to save us. Any good parent would do the same.

[@teachmetruth3539]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/hYuammiPgtCqhNk

[@tiffanyweber3028]

The prodigal son is the example of Universal reconciliation!

[@Spartanthermopylae]

Rubbish!! The Prodigal son returned to the father in THIS life; universalism teaches that this is still available in the next life. "lost" refers to unrepentant persons who will miss out on eternal life unless they are "found," that is, rescued or saved and brought to a place of repentance and forgiveness. Universalism teaches that we can live any way we like, God will rescue us...even Satan??? The faulty logic goes like this: A loving God couldn't assign people to hell. Hell is a contradiction of Christianity's basic theme of love. Therefore, there can be no hell in God's world. Consequently our deceased loved ones must be in a heaven of some kind. It follows that no one can be lost. Everyone will make it to heaven, except maybe really bad people like Hitler. First of all, the Bible is clear that unredeemed men will dwell forever in hell. Jesus’ own words confirm that the time spent in heaven for the redeemed will last as long as that of the unredeemed in hell. Matthew 25:46 says, “Then they [the unsaved] will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.” According to this verse, the punishment of the unsaved is just as eternal as the life of the righteous. Some believe that those in hell will eventually cease to exist, but the Lord Himself confirms that it will last forever. Matthew 25:41 and Mark 9:44 describe hell as “eternal fire” and “unquenchable fire.” How does one avoid this unquenchable fire? Many people believe that all roads-all religions and beliefs-lead to heaven, or they consider that God is so full of love and mercy that He will allow all people into heaven. God is certainly full of love and mercy; it was these qualities that led Him to send His Son, Jesus Christ, to earth to die on the cross for us. Jesus Christ is the exclusive door that leads to an eternity in heaven. Acts 4:12 says, “Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved.” “There is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus” (1 Timothy 2:5). In John 14:6, Jesus says, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.” John 3:16, “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.” If we choose to reject God’s Son, we do not meet the requirements for salvation (John 3:16, 18, 36). With verses such as these, it becomes clear that universalism and universal salvation are unbiblical beliefs. Universalism directly contradicts what Scripture teaches. While many people accuse Christians of being intolerant and “exclusive,” it is important to remember that these are the words of Christ Himself. Christians did not develop these ideas on their own; Christians are simply stating what the Lord has already said. People choose to reject the message because they do not want to face up to their sin and admit that they need the Lord to save them. To say that those who reject God’s provision of salvation through His Son will be saved is to belittle the holiness and justice of God and negate the need of Jesus’ sacrifice on our behalf. Consider Jesus’ other statements about eternal punishment and how the unsaved will experience God’s wrath: • “Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it.” (Matthew 7:13-14) • “Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.’” (Matthew 7:22-23) • “And you, Capernaum, will not be exalted to heaven, will you? You will descend to Hades; for if the miracles had occurred in Sodom which occurred in you, it would have remained to this day” (Matthew 11:23) • “So just as the tares are gathered up and burned with fire, so shall it be at the end of the age. The Son of Man will send forth His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all stumbling blocks, and those who commit lawlessness” (Matthew 13:40-41) • “So it will be at the end of the age; the angels will come forth and take out the wicked from among the righteous, and will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth” (Matthew 13:49-50) • “Then the king said to the servants, ‘Bind him hand and foot, and throw him into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth’" (Matthew 22:13) • “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites, because you travel around on sea and land to make one proselyte; and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as yourselves" (Matthew 23:15) • “You serpents, you brood of vipers, how will you escape the sentence of hell?" (Matthew 23:33) • “Then He will also say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels” (Matthew 25:41) • “These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life” (Matthew 25:46) • “If your hand causes you to stumble, cut it off; it is better for you to enter life crippled, than, having your two hands, to go into hell, into the unquenchable fire” (Mark 9:43) • “But I will warn you whom to fear: fear the One who, after He has killed, has authority to cast into hell; yes, I tell you, fear Him!” (Luke 12:5) • “He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him” (John 3:36) • “Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice, and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.” (John 5:28-29) • “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. He who overcomes will not be hurt by the second death’" (Revelation 2:11) If you believe in Universal Salvation/Ultimate Reconciliation, then you believe that Gd and Jesus got it wrong.

[@deeveevideos]

When you read the correct translations from the Greek then you understand there is no eternal fire. And there is only love. Not saying you won't be punished because you will but why would God resurrect people to torment them for eternity? Aren't we supposed to forgive our enemies? Are you saying God is not just and we have to be held to a higher moral standard than him? God bless

[@Spartanthermopylae]

@@deeveevideos "When you read the correct translations from the Greek then you understand there is no eternal fire." This response 'begs the question.' It assumes YOUR conclusion that I haven't read the correct translations from the Greek." Also, I've taught biblical languages, so I can read the verses in their original languages...so, why would I want to read a translation, as YOU have to do. "then you understand there is no eternal fire." This is a false conclusion, based on a faulty assumption. "And there is only love." Another faulty, unbiblical idea; what you're saying is that God is ONLY love, without justice. "why would God resurrect people to torment them for eternity?" Because the Scriptures say so e.g. John 5:28, 29. "Aren't we supposed to forgive our enemies?" Why are you making our decisions equal to God's? Isaiah 55:8, 9. "Are you saying God is not just"....NO, I'm saying that you've ignored God's sense of justice, by claiming that ALL God is, is love. " we have to be held to a higher moral standard than him?" Of course, I am! The Scriptures say so...Isaiah 55:8, 9...unless you're saying that you have the same values as the Creator, making you equal to Him??

[@deeveevideos]

@@Spartanthermopylae you really think that you're held to a higher moral standard than God?! Wow. God also says he wants Mercy not sacrifice. And then how do you square one Timothy 4:10 that says that he is the savior of all men especially those that believe in him. I love you and I pray you stop wanting people to be tortured forever.

[@deeveevideos]

@@Spartanthermopylae also you can't learn other languages without translations so I don't know what you are trying to get at like you're better than me?

[@bluejay9235]

I want to make an observation around the 50 minute mark. There's a principle in psychology that if someone dislikes you and is mean to you, you respond to that negativity with nothing but continual kindness, and eventually, that person will have to justify to themselves why they dislike you, and they won't be able to do so. This has happened to me in my life. I met someone whom I had preconceived notions of and decided I didn't like, and in every interaction, I treated them very unkindly, but they never took it personally and always showed kindness to me even when I didn't deserve it. Eventually I realized what a jerk I was and how wrong I had been about this person, and apologized. I did not apologize because I was told to or felt I had to, I apologized because I wanted to, it came from the heart. If humans can soften each other's hearts with their love, just imagine how much greater of an effect on the human heart God's love can have since God is love! With that in mind, I think it's entirely possible for God to restore all of creation without having to force anyone into Heaven.

[@GeorgeWSarris]

Thank you for this very profound and insightful comment! God bless.

[@truthtrumpstradition]

I enjoyed watching this, George. Thank you for sharing! Wanted to comment on John's position of "free" choice. A king might say to his subjects, "You are free to swear loyalty to the crown or not. Those who do not swear loyalty will be executed." The subjects' choice is anything but free. It would be made under severe duress. In the same way, if God is saying, "You are free to love me or not. Those who do not will be burned alive forever," our choice is anything but free. It would be made under *infinite duress* and the chances of anyone in that position having sincere, heartfelt love for God would be extremely small. Many would try to serve Him outwardly, but how can a person sincerely *love* someone who threatens not just death (as an evil human tyrant would) but infinite suffering even after death? Placing humans in a position of never-ending, maximum pain is in perfect harmony with Satan's will. So, if ECT is correct, we have God punishing humans exactly like Satan would have him do. I am not comfortable with the idea of God accomplishing Satan's will. Also, John keeps talking about the language of Genesis 1-2, referring to a "continually dying" state. I would ask if John was ever personally in a "continually dying" state. If he says Yes, then "continually dying" must not be the end of John's story. And if it's not the end of *his* story, then we cannot assume it is the end of *anyone's* story. John talks about Genesis as introducing the language of "hell." If Adam and Eve were continually dying, yet clearly they were not being burned alive or tortured in any way, what does that tell us about "hell"? It seems we would have to really cherry-pick which concepts we take away from Genesis to force Genesis to tell us about punishment in the afterlife.

[@GeorgeWSarris]

Thank you for your very insightful comments. God bless.

[@ashmarie5424]

Truth Trumps Tradition this is a wrong understanding of the scriptures, we DESERVE hell for breaking God’s laws, it’s not “love me or burn forever” it’s “you’re a wicked sinner who deserves to be punished in hell but because of My love for you I’ve sent my only Begotten Son into the world as an offering to pay the price for your sins and give you eternal life in heaven with Me.” It’s a gift of grace and mercy that we DO NOT deserve and He offers it freely to those who will repent and believe in Jesus sacrifice. And those who are born again are not outwardly trying to love God out of fear of hell, the Holy Spirit comes to live inside us, continually sanctifying us to become more and more like Christ producing the fruits of the spirit (joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, etc.) We who are saved are not afraid of hell because we have faith in our savior Jesus and are given the promise of eternal life. We love God because of His love for us, because He died for us so that we would be with Him forever.

[@shanestrickland5006]

@@ashmarie5424 How is that a free choice ? Plus do you even realize most people don't want anything to do with Christianity because of ECT ? You would have to be insane to call an eternal tormentor a loving father. Learn to think critically when you speak or type. Because what you posted makes no sense to a person of a logical mind. Plus it is pretty foolish to think your feeble will can thwart God's will. Just like if i thought my will could screw up a Devine plan I would have a pretty big ego.

[@lc2077]

ash marie thank goodness your sick interpretation of scripture is starting to be throughly exposed by Christian Universalists. How anyone can claim to have the fruits of the spirit knowing the majority of people are going to be torment forever and ever and ever. It’s unbelievably disgusting and sick it’s just incredible to me that anyone can believe this satanic lie.

[@Spartanthermopylae]

@@ashmarie5424 Well said, Ash, and scripturally correct.

[@lucabarsotti1409]

Thanks for sharing this dialogue. May i suggest to consider the theological works of the swedish mystic Emanuel Swedenborg? He teaches exactly that: we are not punished for our sins but by our sins, that God's love for the sinner never ends, not even with death, after which repentance is still possibile.

[@cephyr13]

Sarris should've said the the wording of you shall continually eat and you shall continually die doesn't say you shall do so eternally. It simply says you shall do so continuously in that moment. It's a statement of being, and it's in that moment and the next and the next...until you stop doing it. Nothing in the Greek grammar says you will do it forever. It's a statement of the action of being, not a durational statement of length of time. Rankin is a little shallow when it comes to the deep things of the human heart and behavior...because if he ever weren't, he'd have to admit that Sarrin is correct.

[@simthiam3712]

"namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespass against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation." ( 2 Corinthians 5:19)

[@mf1110]

I bring you glad tidings of great joy and it shall be to ALL PEOPLE.

[@AlexSmith2]

Awesome! Great to see civil discussion on this important issue.

[@DDCaldwellnot1lost]

George, as always, you were excellent! Thank You very much for your boldness and sharing the LOVE of God for ALL so clearly, with graceful demeanor 👏🙌✝

[@trishp1449]

Death is the last enemy to be abolished. Only life remains.

[@benf101]

Threatening humanity with eternity in flames is the very definition of violating our free will. I was raised with the belief that God tortures forever and that was a primary driver pushing me to "worship" God. Now that I believe that God will redeem the vilest of sinners, even those who reject Him on earth, I can truly worship Him. Now, I am truly in awe of His love. His love draws me and I freewillingly move toward Him. If I thought He was going to burn me forever in inescapable flames then I would reluctantly move toward Him. That's how I used to be. That threat violated my free will and the threat came from people who claim that God would never violate my free will.

[@GeorgeWSarris]

Thank you for that very insightful comment! God bless.

[@ashmarie5424]

benf101 what?! Yeah so you love worship serve and suffer for the Lord while those who reject Christ and remain unrepentant sinners still get saved? How is that a just God?!

[@benf101]

@@ashmarie5424 Firstly, I don't think there will remain any unrepentant sinners. All will come to repentance. Every knee will bow and every tongue will confess that Jesus is Lord. It's funny, in Matthew 19, Jesus just finished saying that "all things are possible with God", implying that anyone can be saved. And Peter's response was your exact response. He said, “See, we have left all and followed You. Therefore what shall we have?” (Matthew 19.27) And Jesus went on to say that they will receive rewards for their sacrifice. Then, in chapter 20, Jesus went into the parable of the vineyard workers, who complained (just like you did) that their payment was unjust because others who sacrificed much less would receive the same payment. The land owner said "Friend, I am doing you no wrong. [...] I wish to give to this last man the same as to you. 15 Is it not lawful for me to do what I wish with my own things? Or is your eye evil because I am good?" If you think you deserve something extra because you chose God, then that is a self righteous position to take. Remember why you have faith (God gave it to you) and what you are saved from. Do any of us deserve eternal life? No, it is a gift of God. We deserve death, but the gift of God is eternal life.

[@GeorgeWSarris]

@@ashmarie5424 Did you read what I wrote? Those who eventually are in heaven are not "unrepentant sinners." God doesn't give up on anyone. He continues to work in the lives of all those He created until they come to a point where they understand their need for God's saving grace through Christ. Regarding justice, was it just for God to save you? Then why is it not just for God to save others who take longer to come to Him?

[@GeorgeWSarris]

Thank you for that insightful comment. You can "serve" a God who threatens you with never-ending torture if you don't do what He says, but you can't really "love" Him. God bless.

[@bradymayo1306]

Sarris hands down, wins this debate! I’m starting to believe!

[@Hibernial]

Amen!

[@teachmetruth3539]

That’s too bad. Universalism is not scriptural. Not everyone will be saved.

[@bradymayo1306]

@@teachmetruth3539 well lets see who knows more about ancient Greek Scripture and how these passages that you say do not teach Universalism should be interpreted "teachmetruth" or the majority of the Early Greek Church Fathers. I think I will put me trust in those who lived closest to the time of Christ and who understood the usage of the ancient Greek passages within scripture. “In the first five or six centuries of Christianity there were six theological schools, of which four (Alexandria, Antioch, Caesarea, and Edessa, or Nisibis) were Universalist, one (Ephesus) accepted conditional immortality; one (Carthage or Rome) taught endless punishment of the wicked. Other theological schools are mentioned as founded by Universalists, but their actual doctrine on this subject is not known.” “The Encyclopedia of Religious Knowledge” by Schaff-Herzog, 1908, volume 12, page 96 St. Basil the Great (c. 329-379) in his De Asceticis wrote: “The mass of men (Christians) say that there is to be an end of punishment to those who are punished.”

[@visa6127]

But John left out the fact that Sodom and Gomorrah as stated in Ezekial 16:53, are going to be restored with all of their former fortunes. God judged them harshly, and will restore them.

[@fireandworms]

Where did you get the idea that *ALL* of Israel will be restored? Malachi 3:16-18 says the opposite.

[@markmanley2184]

"In dying you shall continually die" was the verse he used as a main pillar to make his claim. He states this clearly talks about never ending death, nothing could change this. It seems this is his foundation for the whole biblical truth. Now, if Jesus came to bring us back to life, then this continually dying would cease. Of course Genesis 2:17 wouldn't change, it would still speak of ENDLESSNESS. But if Jesus put an end to this endless death for every believer, why cant there be an end to an unbelievers death? Especially if we see unbelievers thrown into the "lake of fire and brimstone" where they will be "tormented until the age of the ages" which most likely is the time after Jesus gave back everything to the father so that in God may be all in all. Why cant the unbelievers be refined in this lake of fire, that in the greek clearly is of limited duration? Why cant all the sin and unrighteousness, or in refiners language all the unclean metals be burned out, until only the pure gold is left? After this the sinner, whos eyes didnt see clearly on earth, now finally sees God clearly and of course chooses of all his free will and with his whole heart to bow down before him. This way Jesus truly would be "the savior of the whole world." By the way, the word torment in this verse of revelation can also mean testing of metal wether its pure. So sinners might be tormented (tested) again and again in the lake of fire, which slowly purifies them, until they are completly pure.

[@lc2077]

This is the only rational loving interpretation of scripture and anyone who believes in eternal conscious torment has an incredibly hardened heart and a deep soul sickness.

[@markmanley2184]

@@lc2077 to be fair christians stick to the bible and if their bible speaks of eternal conscious torment, then thats what they will believe. Our bible translations are aweful, I only hope some day modern versions of youngs literal translation will appear.

[@lc2077]

Mark Manley that’s an excellent point! However, there are lots of Christians that do know there are translation issues but still choose to believe in ECT though.

[@fireandworms]

"Why can't" is neither a reason nor an answer. Why can't God torture people endlessly? The only answer from Universalists "He can't, because of my own contrived version of God's morality." I believe in annihilation to be clear, I'm not arguing ECT. But understand this, the Bible is a book of truth first and a book of poetry second.

[@1234567mrbob]

People who are pro-hell intellectualize God. They see God not as a person with compassion for people, but as a law of nature or a principle with no flexibility. God to them is like the law of gravity that pulls you to your death if you fall from a 20th floor balcony, with no regard for the outcome to you or your loved ones. Laws of nature have no decision making capability and act equally on all people. The structure of God's "love" and his "justice" in their mind is like a law of nature, expressed in the "grammar" of the Bible. Any God who could stand to see his created beings suffer for eternity, regardless of how you define that in terms of "love", "free-will" or "sovereignty", is not a person. He is a law.

[@jasonegeland1446]

Hell (hel/hel) is a translation error. Look it up. Hades/Gehenna/Sheol, etc.

[@TheHumbuckerboy]

We need more of these robust debates/ discussions concerning this extremely important issue.

[@teachmetruth3539]

It wouldn’t matter. Talking or debating about it will not make universalism true. Jesus died for the church. He gave himself for her. Jesus didn’t die for everyone.

[@coreyfriend1]

Jesus truly is the Savior of the World! Excellent job declaring the truth, George

[@GeorgeWSarris]

Thank you, Corey, for the encouragement. God bless.

[@Spartanthermopylae]

Despite it not being the truth.

[@vronji]

@@Spartanthermopylae did you even watch the video?

[@Spartanthermopylae]

@@vronji I was too busy watching 'I'm blue Da Ba Dee'

[@teachmetruth3539]

Jesus died for the church. And only for the church. He gave himself for her.

[@MichaelZenker]

AHHHH.... John has built his argument on GRAMMAR? and a limited 'systematic theology' mindset, ....step outside that argument and John has zero credibility. George, LOVE what you are sharing here.... Traditional 'churchy-anity' is represented by John...... Thank you George for sharing EXTREME Grace!!

[@GeorgeWSarris]

Thank you for your encouragement! God bless.

[@fireandworms]

Grammar and precise semantic meaning is more necessary for the Universalist argument, taken at face value "eternal punishment" wouldn't mean "temporary purification"

[@EamonMcMullan7]

George you are AWESOME!!

[@GeorgeWSarris]

I'm not really awesome, but thanks for the encouragement!

[@jasonegeland1446]

God bless John. Let's pray that his journey to God is fruitful. And God bless you, George. You have encouraged us even more that God's love is unavoidable and perpetually embracing us:)

[@davidlgs]

Lmao, their arguing back and forth at the end was comical. Great video!! I really enjoyed your opening statement, well said!

[@acetheo6864]

Unversalists often say "God is too good to burn folks endlessly in hell." But they don't see nor focus on the CROSS... that Christ died and rose again... and THAT is the foundation of universal reconciliation. "I determined to know nothing among you save Christ and Him crucified." "The cross is a snare (GK: skandalon) " "All reconciled by the blood of the cross." (COL 1:20) I'm telling you... the cross is our argument. All else is useless. Grace to you. Ace.

[@acetheo6864]

God was in Christ, reconciling the world to himself, not counting any offenses to them... (His work on the cross)... II COR 5:18-19.

[@Hibernial]

Christian universalists, or just Christians, should differentiate themselves from more secular universalists. Salvation is one matter, but growth and maturity is another matter. Believers should care for both. Without the cross there would have been no resurrection from the grave. The cross certainly is important, and necessary to know. Christ being crucified dealt with humanity’s old Adamic man. But alongside the blood Jesus spilt, there was also the water from his pierced side, symbolizing the Spirit being poured out to commune and indwell within the heart’s of men. The cross leads into the resurrection. Since the Lord now is in His resurrection glory, believers have to walk the narrow way that is through the cross in order to be in new life. An argument for the cross is certainly scholarly, and it is right. Paul says we should be as scholars. But the work at the cross applied and in its significance really is Christ’s dealing upon a man’s heart, in order to raise him up.

[@BrandonJBraun]

To say that love offers one the freedom to choose an infinite torment and separation from bliss while ill-informed in this finite vapor of a life is simply incoherent. Let's not forget, the gospel and truth of our Father are ultimately revealed by Him, we cannot persuade anyone by humanly means; only God truly opens the eyes of the blind.

[@GeorgeWSarris]

Good thoughts! Thank you. God bless.

[@sonnymustarseed7034]

Every knee will bow and every tongue confess. Connect the dots of that to Romans 10:9-13. God does not require false worship!

[@1234567mrbob]

I find that people who are pro-hell never make any logical arguments for it, all they do is hit you with their interpretation of scripture. Their message is, "You will burn in hell forever if you don't believe in Jesus because God says so, period." What's worse, their complete lack of any logic for their argument not only shows a lack of independent thought, but also a complete lack of empathy for people. Their argument that the abolishment of hell would violate "God's 'goodness'" is so much double-talk. God won't save everybody because that would "violate our freedom" is a logical smoke-and-mirrors. If "freedom" is the ability to choose a destination where you will suffer forever, then what good is it? A freedom that leads to that is completely worthless, and a God who honors that kind of freedom is not a loving God at all. It would be like you giving your 2-year old child the "freedom" to run out in the street when a car is coming. Finally, if the "grammar of Genesis" is so compelling, as he says it is, which I believe is really only his interpretation of it, then why do most Jews not believe in eternal conscious torment in hell?

[@GeorgeWSarris]

Good thoughts. Thanks for sharing them. God bless.

[@fireandworms]

I don't really see how we're unable to be properly informed my friend. Did you get that idea from Scripture?

[@Jeffreykum]

I got your book. Why do people put out videos of them going too hell on you tube ? its scary

[@shanestrickland5006]

It could all be a lie to sell book's are a trick of their subconscious. Plus when you truly studie near death experience like myself you realize their not strong evidence.

[@vronji]

If you are talking about people such as Bill weisn and Mary Baxter, they are evangelical Christians who have had visions depicting a firey hell. First of all, visions are not accurate. People get visions all the time on many different things, and usually they are not true. Second of all, they have had previous biases towards evangelical Christianity. You can see where that can go.

[@Origen17]

Classic example of cold, academic analysis vs. academic analysis inspired and informed by the Holy Spirit.

[@johnnyhaigs243]

To which do you proscribed each side?

[@Origen17]

@@johnnyhaigs243 Sarris has the Spirit...

[@TheHumbuckerboy]

2 Corinthians 3 : 6 says something to the effect that " the letter kills but the Spirit gives life" .

[@simthiam3712]

God is Perfect Love. He will never give up on any one of us, and He never fail. All will be saved eventually.

[@lc2077]

Amen!

[@Spartanthermopylae]

Unfortunately, it's we who give up on God.

[@MUSIC-MARY]

The APOCRYPHA (Hidden books) was used by Ancient Hebrews & Early Christians. It was included in the ORIGINAL 1611 A.D. KJV (King James English Version) In 1885, the Archbishop of Cantbury, England took out the Apocrypha books from the KJV leaving only 66 books. "Peter asks Jesus to have pity on the people in Hell, and JESUS SAYS they will eventually ALL be SAVED" (Apocalypse of Peter) (135 A.D.) (2nd Century A.D.). Wikipedia: History of Christian universalism

[@Spartanthermopylae]

@@MUSIC-MARY Oh dear, more false writings, Mary.

[@MUSIC-MARY]

@@lc2077 God bless you L C!!!

[@TyehimbaJahsi]

John's argumentation is pretty weak. Assuming that his Hebrew "grammar groundwork" in Genesis somehow justifies the doctrine of eternal conscious torment, he ignores all kinds of Scriptural evidence, word studies, logic, church history, etc.

[@shanestrickland5006]

Any argument you give for eternal torment would not make sense. So does it matter what argument he used ?

[@Origen17]

I was surprised how weak his presentation was. Nothing with thwart God's Plan!

[@Spartanthermopylae]

@@shanestrickland5006 "Any argument you give for eternal torment would not make sense" I guess God's Word doesn't count, using your logic.

[@tammyproffitt7124]

Universal salvation is the only Doctrine that gives God all the glory

[@GeorgeWSarris]

That is so true, Tammy. God bless.

[@ashmarie5424]

Tammy Proffitt how?! By spitting in the face of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, by saying no need to be saved, born again, to repent, follow and love Jesus because you’ll be saved anyways! How ridiculous!

[@kaitisover9000rawr]

ash marie You just twisted the entire perspective. From a human perspective, we can’t understand such an act of forgiveness. Eternity is now, eternity is then, and eternity is future. Eternal life is a gift from the Lord Jesus Christ from His act on the cross. I don’t hold this view, but I’m playing middleman for the sake of this view.... Think about it this way, when Jesus Christ died on the cross, was that forgiveness available before the fact of that action? People were already believing in a messiah and had faith in Him. We can’t perceive the actions of God, the mind of God, the understanding of forgiveness... because we are flesh bodies of sin who desire retaliation, vengeance, etc. Putting God’s grace in a box is not a gods perspective. Were we only grafted in AFTER the action of the cross as Gentiles? Was there no hope before then for any human that was not a Jew? Because I believe scripture shows otherwise, especially with the woman who is known as the one Jesus called a dog. God’s love is irresistible. His grace is irresistible. Who are we in our prideful flesh to believe that eternity that is in the past, present, and future.. doesn’t extend to after death?

[@christiaanvandyk]

@@ashmarie5424It is purely BECAUSE of what Jesus did that salvation and restoration is possible. There is no other way to be saved. As is says in Col 1:15-20 - Jesus will restore all things, in heaven, on earth and beneath the earth, visible and invisible, HAVING MADE PEACE by the blood of His cross. That lifts the atonement Jesus made way higher, it it gives Him more glory, saying that only because of what He did can all come to the Father - but it is a process. Some now, some later. But all in due time.

[@lc2077]

ash marie what are you actually talking about? You must have been severely traumatised to believe that the victorious gospel of Jesus Christ is doing anything of the sort.

[@tommywarren4633]

Dear mr. Sarris, thank you for your response to my comment, no I haven't read your book yet but would like to, I wrote a book a while back but I haven't tried to have it published, probably because unless you're some religious professor or theologian, nobody would want to publish it, the book was called eternal hell, or the victorious gospel of Christ. Where I have shown in the book that there is no hell in the scriptures, and that Paul was a universalist. Thanks again for your reply.

[@GeorgeWSarris]

If you would be interested, I'd be happy to send you a complimentary copy of my book. My email address is: [e-mail]. Let me know if you would like a paperback or eBook copy, and supply the appropriate address. God bless.

[@bernhardkirt]

Who [in their right mind] would choose hell? Makes no sense.

[@fireandworms]

2 Corinthians 4:4 and Romans 1:26-28

[@johnholby]

Would love to see you have a debate with Bill Wiese, Mary K Baxter and Laurie Ditto who have hellish revelations shown by Jesus.

[@GeorgeWSarris]

I would love to send them a copy of my book. If they would be interested, ask them to contact me. God bless.

[@DailyRacingFunnies]

sarris wins !!! the other guy keeps changing the subject... and doesn't listen !!

[@denissutherland3653]

Philippians 3 : 19 " Their end is destruction : their god is their belly : that in which they glory is their shame. Men whose whole minds are earthbound."

[@denissutherland3653]

2 Timothy 4 : 4 " They will avert their ears from the Truth, and they will turn to extravagant tales."

[@TheProdigalSaint]

Denis Sutherland Very true. Eternal conscious torment is indeed a horrible, extravagant tale. What a good reminder. :)

[@denissutherland3653]

@@TheProdigalSaint In no way was I referring to the lake of fire when I quoted the Bible!!! extravagant tales are the Trinity when the only Trinity spelt out in the Bible is that of satan, a house divided will fall, Jesus was sinless as a human, the ultimate oxy moron, to be human is to be a sinner from conception, Jesus took the rap for all who put up their hand for that ultimate pandering and I sat in the pews for 30 years thinking I was saved, from what I was not told, because that would inhibit cash flow, The "Church" is merchandising demonic heresy and we were paying, tithing for that abomination, spiritually dead in the pew.s........ What I'm writing can all be supported by relevant Bible texts. There is no question that is you don't confess with your mouth that Jesus is your Lord and God raised him from death as a human meaning spiritual death = eternal separation from God, ie Jesus is not God rather his blessed only true Son God's perfect as in fit for the task at hand His ideal 2IC

[@acetheo6864]

35 minutes in and NO ONE IS TALKING ABOUT WHAT WAS ACCOMPLISHED ON THE CROSS... SHAME ON YOU TWO.

[@AnnouncementFromAbove]

Jesus is the way the truth and the life, noone comes to the Father but through Him. And He, Jesus, will draw all unto Himself. Amen.

[@christianuniversalist]

Thank you for this video!♥️✝️

[@WhisperInTheWeeds]

Grammar this and grammar that, but nothing says I love you like Eternal Conscious Torment. Gah.

[@shanestrickland5006]

Your sarcasm took the word's out of my mouth.

[@EclecticApotheosis]

Good discussion, and I would be a fool to say anything regarding the scholarly literal interpretation of the verses discussed. I am not a scholar. I find both arguments difficult, from a layman's point of view, for the following reason. It appears that each one holds up one or two scriptures as THE key to understanding, and interprets (or re-interprets as necessary) all other scriptures to fit the literal meaning of the "key" scriptures. I am more comfortable with taking all the scriptures that deal with judgment, ultimate salvation, and ultimate condemnation, and use all those as context for understanding any one or two passages. There are so many verses which do not seem to fit either scholar's interpretation of hell. I wish the moderator had brought some of them up. I wish when Dr. Rankin was on Eric Metaxas' show Eric had brought up some of those scriptures. I will have to go back and listen to Dr. Sarris' appearance on the show. What we do not know is the nature of the mind and character that God has given us. Is there a point at which that character becomes absolutely fixed, such that it cannot change? fixed either toward a good orientation or an evil orientation? If so, then hell is necessary, but eternal punishing would also be pointless. I will take it on faith that God knows when a point of no return has been reached, and deal with that individual with justice and also mercy.

[@GeorgeWSarris]

Eric, thank you for your thoughts. I understand your dilemma regarding the various verses that each side musters. May I encourage you to read my book - Heaven's Doors . . . Wider Than You Ever Believed! I actually address all the verses that people generally bring up. The book is inexpensive on Amazon. God bless.

[@mf1110]

The king’s heart is in the hand of the Lord, like a river He turneth it whithersoever He will.

[@tommywarren4633]

Why don't all these smart people realize that it was never created in the first place there's no mention of it in the true Hebrew or Greek scriptures anywhere

[@GeorgeWSarris]

That is a good question!

[@tommywarren4633]

I might have the free will to choose to ride the merry-go-round in the park, but then I find out that there is no such thing in the Park. How can I choose hell if God never created it!?

[@danielbowden5802]

I bet you were really wanting to respond at the end. :) I still don't get the libertarian free will argument that there must be an actual mathematical chance of doing other than the thing that we will do, or the action is unfree and or unmeaningful. It seems to me that makes things LESS meaningful or free and even based on luck. It is like saying that kindness or love towards others is unfree or meaningless if there is not at least a small chance that you will hate them and axe murder them. In fact, that would seem to make unconditional love meaningless(by that same reasoning) since there is no chance that it will be otherwise. It seems it would also make God's will or choices meaningless unless we were to say that there is a real chance(like 0.00000000000000000001%) that God could have hated everyone or ended up being like moloch, etc. We really lucked out there! lol There must be some huge semantic dispute here or something.

[@truthtrumpstradition]

Good point!!

[@Hibernial]

I would describe my philosophical views as libertarian which I think isn’t something that should be conflated at all with being libertine, but as for arguments on freewill I don’t believe there is a contentious issue between God’s will and man’s will. Looking at scripture even the angels have freewill, to some extent. The matter is not so much about the will, but about the nature that compromises the substance of a man’s spirit, and his heart which either produces spiritual fruit or no fruit. Having a will of our own is one function of the human spirit. But the purpose of constantly being in prayer for the Christian, which is a spiritual practice, is not to exercise our will to produce something. It’s to receive Christ’s Spirit and his nature in order to regenerate our spirit, and to transform our mind, or our soul which is both the mind and heart. What good does it to have all things in the world, knowledge and doctrine, but lack love? Then a man has nothing. Freewill is something vital, especially in the forming of relationships between people, but it means nothing in its sole exercise without the Father as Love satisfying the need of a man’s spirit. Having a heightened sense of freewill is probably what the Christian is destined for when he is to be with Christ in resurrection glory, and a glorified body.

[@kevinrombouts3027]

God will not use overwhelming force to get people on their knees to acknowledge the Lordship of Jesus Christ. God will use overcoming love. Love is the essence of God ( 1 John 4) and live endures and overcomes. Both correct theology of the nature of God and the central biblical narrative concerning salvation scream of ultimate restoration of all people, all things. This is the finished work of the cross, God's ultimate victory. No more enemies, no more evil, no more tears, full glory to God who because of his wondrous mercy and depth of His love, restores all things.

[@GeorgeWSarris]

AMEN! Thanks for sharing those thoughts. God bless.

[@Lovingkindness.]

Amen, the lovingkindness (hesed) of God is endless!

[@aromaofhope]

His grammar may be correct....The letter killeth but the spirit maketh alive....

[@je4754]

Yeah, he loved them enough to send them to a hellhole of endless fire and suffering! That is the real definition of love!!!

[@je4754]

You know, all anyone needs to think about is, if you were a father, (or any kind of parent) would you not interfere with your son or daughter's free will if they attempted to put themselves in danger that might cause them to experience great harm? Or would you just allow them to do it because it's their free will? I believe we will freely choose to be with God. I don't believe God would create something, only to turn around and destroy it later, or even worse, that he'd go against his own commandments of "Thou shalt not kill" and to "love your enemies". He simply would NOT to that!!!!!

[@GeorgeWSarris]

Thanks for the note. That is really the heart of the issue -- Who is God and what is He really like? God bless.

[@jasonegeland1446]

I just now read your reply (a year later), and yes, God's nature is highly undervalued by our very flawed carnal understanding. Just watched a couple of your Puffs commercials. Very cool!!

[@Lovingkindness.]

43:53 “God will not force His will” This is the dumbest statement in this video. It supports the idea that man can overcome or overpower the will of God. That is a foundation of sand and the height of spiritual blindness. It is from the carnal mind of Adam who measures and judges God with his fallen intellect. “Father, help!” Amen.

[@tommywarren4633]

In Philippians chapter 2 that they're talkin about it is a joyful confession to to the praising God for his salvation it is not a forced one, all in the end will praise God because they want to because they have been won over by his perfect love, just as 1st Corinthians 3 11 through 15 correctly says.

[@gracewalk4155]

It was painful listening to John 😩

[@trishp1449]

Absolutely God is love

[@teachmetruth3539]

I will assume you have no idea what the word love is in the original Greek bible and what kind of love it is.

[@trishp1449]

@@teachmetruth3539 there are 3. Eris which is akin to sexual desire. Philei which is brotherly or friend love and agape which is unconditional love. My father is agape love.

[@surewordofprophecyministri2227]

No eternal torture - but a 2nd Death...

[@GeorgeWSarris]

"The “second death” therefore, so far from being, as some think, the hopeless shutting up of man for ever in the curse of disobedience, will, if I err not, be God’s way to free those who in no other way than by such a death can be delivered out of the dark world, whose life they live in. . . . And why should it be thought a thing incredible that God should raise the dead, who for their sin suffer the penalty of the second death? Does this death exceed the power of Christ to overcome it? Or shall the greater foe still triumph, while the less, the first death, is surely overcome? Who has taught us thus to limit the meaning of the words, “Death is swallowed up in victory”? Is God’s ‘will to save all men’ limited to fourscore years, or changed by that event which we call death, but which we are distinctly told is His appointed means for our deliverance?" - Andrew Jukes, The Second Death and the Restitution of All Things

[@ashmarie5424]

Sure Word of Prophecy Ministries 👏🏻👏🏻

[@TheHumbuckerboy]

@@GeorgeWSarris Yes, 'The Second Death and the Restitution of All Things' by Andrew Jukes is another wonderful book IMO ... " Death is swallowed up in victory" ! Amen !

[@tommywarren4633]

The guy in the brown suit he sure does love the Augustine doctrine.

[@gondolier41413]

John Rankin is great as usual here. He has a clear understanding of sin and redemption. Jesus answered the question if all will be saved. Luke 13:22-28 (Jesus says clearly here not everyone will be saved) One of your arguments is that God is always forgiving and John is implying that after death God's character changes. Your argument once again does not align with the Bible in that your version of God's character(always forgiving) can be refuted with Scripture by showing that God does not always forgive. Matthew 12:32 is one of those examples He says shall not be forgiven in this earth or the earth to come. Is the New Earth not eternal? You had another argument that sin will ultimately bring about repentance that people will eventually repent and be saved. Hebrews 6:4-6 shows that it is impossible for them to be brought to repentance, who fall under the description given. It says the only way they could ever be redeemed is if Christ was crucified in the flesh for a second time. No where in the Bible does it say God will be crucified in the flesh a second time.

[@GeorgeWSarris]

Thank you for your thoughts. I have actually addressed each of your objections in my book. Space doesn't allow for a full comment here, but I would encourage you to read what I've written. Here's a comment from the book - " In order to get a better idea of what He meant when He said this, it’s important to note that the word never in this passage is not in the Greek text. Jesus did not say the person will never be forgiven. He actually said that whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven to the age. Or as it reads in Matthew, “either in this age or in the age to come.” Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is refusing to acknowledge that what God is doing is really from God. It’s resisting His work in our lives. It’s saying no to Him. As long as that continues, nothing can be done. It’s impossible for someone to experience God’s forgiving grace when that person doesn’t want it, whether it takes place in this age, the age to come, or in one of the ages to come. However, if after-death punishment is a place for healing sinners, when that is accomplished and they stop resisting God in their lives, then God’s forgiveness is granted and heaven’s doors are opened. George MacDonald addressed this situation in his Unspoken Sermon on Light. “For the man who in this world resists to the full, there may be, perhaps, a whole age or era in the history of the universe during which his sin shall not be forgiven . . . How can they who will not repent be forgiven, save in the sense that God does and will do all he can to make them repent? Who knows but such sin may need for its cure the continuous punishment of an æon?” God doesn’t act graciously toward His creatures only in this age or in the age to come. According to the Apostle Paul, the incomparable riches of God’s grace will be shown in the ages to come. God doesn’t give up!" God bless.

[@gondolier41413]

Hi George Sarris, Thank You for taking your time to respond. Having just read this and seeing your response regarding the Greek language not using the word "Never" I don't see how that is relevant to Matthew 12:32 KJV. It does not use the language never forgiveness. It says shall not be forgiven neither in this world or the world to come(which is eternal) and the word "not" is found in the Koine Greek text. So, it cannot be argued that this is just for a particular age. Matthew 12:32 supplements the other scriptures on blaspheme of the Holy Spirit like Mark 3:29. Also, the response doesn't address what is stated in Hebrews 6 regarding the need for Christ to be crucified a second time in order to receive forgiveness. Revelation 21:27 states that no one will enter the Kingdom of Heaven that are not found in the Lamb's Book of Life. If everyone is entering then what is the point of this statement? Why is it that God is taking the time to blot peoples names out of the Book of Life? It seems the statement made in Revelation 21:27 perfectly supplements that of Jesus in the book of Matthew " Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

[@ashmarie5424]

gondolier41413 amen!!! The only sound comment here, I was shocked at this teaching! It goes against SO much of the scriptures that you’d have to throw the Bible out the door to come to the conclusions this guy has come to. I say it’s absolute blasphemy.

[@shanestrickland5006]

@@gondolier41413 Sorry but their is the 1000 year reign of Christ in the age to come but not eternal. To show you what I mean in revelations 11:15 kjv says Christ reigns forever but 1st Corinthians 15:25 says he must reign until/till he puts all enemies under his feet kjv. Which one is it? The age to come is not eternal but last for 1000 years. In the 1000 year reign you have a reward and punishment phase. Then after this all gets saved. So blasphemy against the holy spirit will be forgiven just after the 1000 year reign of Christ.

[@gondolier41413]

@@shanestrickland5006 Hi Shane, The verse I quoted says "this world or the world to come." It doesn't use the word "Age" in the KJV in that verse. This is more concise language as it refers to the new world, which is discussed in Revelation 21 and takes place after the Millennial Reign. Also, at the end of Revelation 21 it says none shall enter who are not found in the Lamb's Book of Life. Can you find anywhere in the Bible where it says God is currently writing names in the Lamb's Book of Life? Better Yet, could you reference a verse that states names are written back in the Book of Life after the Millennial Reign?

[@simthiam3712]

Jesus is God's demonstration of His Perfect Love n Victory.

[@trishp1449]

Loved this. Thank u.

[@GeorgeWSarris]

Thank you, Trish. God bless.

[@robbchristopher158]

There are a lot of scriptures that I do believe support universal reconciliation but what keeps me believing in universal reconciliation is the conversion of the apostle Paul and the example of King Nebuchadnezzar.

[@fireandworms]

That is better support for Calvinism than Universalism

[@trishp1449]

I agree with Mr. Sarris

[@TheHumbuckerboy]

Same for me.

[@becleanokc7395]

I am a Universalist with a twist of annihilationism ..... I believe all will be given an opportunity for restoration, in this life or the next, but that there will be those who choose death and will therefore perish. The choice has always been one of eternal life or eternal death, not eternal life in bliss or eternal life in misery. Eternal conscious torment CAN NOT be reconciled with a Loving and Just God. Period. That teaching is a sick distortion of Scripture and God's character and should be abolished from all of Christendom.

[@GeorgeWSarris]

Thanks for your comment. With regard to Annihilation, it's possible. But, to me, it basically means that God loses in the end. Whether it's many or only a few, He loses! For me, the key to understanding what will happen in the end is understanding who God is. He is all-powerful. He is all-wise. He is love. He seeks until He finds. He desires that all be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth. There is no wisdom, no insight, no plan that can succeed against the LORD. At the end of time, every knee will bow and every tongue will freely confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father. In light of what the Bible teaches about who God is, it is inconceivable to me that anyone or anything would ultimately defeat Him or His purposes . . . or that this God would desire anything less than complete victory over sin, evil and death. God bless.

[@becleanokc7395]

@@GeorgeWSarris I certainly hope you are correct and I do understand where you are coming from in the logic of it. To me it would be most glorious if every part of creation was restored and I do honestly hope for that to happen. I suppose I’d sum my thoughts with this: - God created us for relationship with Him - The only way to have true love relationship is with consenting parties - The only way to have actual consent is with free will - Free will exists only if one can choose to or not to So, if every single one of the billions of people who have ever lived end up choosing God, that seems to indicate that they couldn’t do otherwise. I understand that your thought is that they can choose otherwise, but that because God is so awesome they won’t… I understand that and I know the verses that would seem to indicate that, as you have quoted. I’m just not there…..but, I’m the next best option running :-) Great job on your presentation by the way, I like how you laid out your position….I will probably duplicate much of it in my presentations in the future. We are about 2 years out from having a Bible College completed in Sierra Leone, where we will be teaching more along the lines of what I laid out previously, but open to, and sympathetic with, your view. There is also a Bible College in India that has asked to have us come teach some of this information to the instructors.

[@GeorgeWSarris]

@@becleanokc7395 Thanks for your thoughtful reply. I was encouraged to hear about the Bible Colleges in Sierra Leone and India. May God truly bless your ministry. I completely agree with you that love is at the heart of how God interacts with mankind. After all, God is love! And love accomplishes its purposes without coercion. Tom Talbott likens the situation to a chess match between a novice and a Chess Master. The Chess Master doesn't "force" the novice to make any particular move, but the Master always wins. Why? Because he understands what the game is really about so much better than the novice. God, like the Chess Master, is so superior at understanding life to any created being that He is able to always win in the end. A theologian I was corresponding with some time ago made a very profound statement in this regard. He said, "Divine love (precisely because it is divine) never stops, and it has its ways -- perhaps ways we don't understand -- to coax and persuade (not force) our always imperfect and sinful love to repentance and final transformation." By the way, have you read my book? If not, I'd be happy to send you a complimentary eBook copy if you supply an email address. God bless.

[@fireandworms]

@@GeorgeWSarris How does God "lose?" God has layers of priority, He hates sin yet allows us to sin. So clearly free will is a higher priority than a sinless world. To look at that and then decide "God's highest priority is for all men to be saved" is begging the question.

[@GeorgeWSarris]

@@fireandworms Thank you for your comment. However, why would God have to choose between giving mankind a free will and being able to save all? Saving all does not mean having a sinless world. Physical death does not mark the end of when God works in the hearts of individuals. Rather, He continues to work in the lives of men and women in the ages to come to bring them to a point where they recognize the sinfulness of sin, its effects in their lives and in the lives of others, and their need for God's saving grace through Christ. Yes, God gives mankind a free will, but He doesn't give up on sinners. God doesn't coerce, but He does succeed in accomplishing His purposes. By the way, have you read my book? I think you would find it interesting, informative and actually encouraging to your faith. God bless.

[@zelenisok]

@George W. Sarris, what is your view on theodicy? God will save all, but why didnt he do it automatically, without all the suffering throughout history?

[@GeorgeWSarris]

That is a very good question. I don't know if you have read my book, but I think Theodore of Mopsuestia addressed the question well. Here's what I wrote regarding Theodore's view on the issue: Being great, God was not taken by surprise at the entrance of sin into His creation. Being good, He incorporated it into His plan in order to ultimately benefit mankind. But how would the entrance of sin into the world benefit those God created? I’m always amazed at how birds build their nests in the Spring. No one teaches them what to do. They just do it. They build wonderful, often fascinating nests. But all birds of a particular type build the same kind of nest. They are not free to choose what they would like to build. They are programmed, in a sense, to do what they do - and they always do it. Rational creatures, however, are not like that. We are actually free to do things in different ways. In his commentary on the Book of Genesis, Theodore explained that the freedom to sin that mankind has is, in itself, a very good thing. God could have made us with instincts like the animals. But He chose to make us free. Theodore understood that created beings left to themselves would surely sin and need to be redeemed. But if they had never been given the freedom to choose evil, they would never truly be able to understand good. In His wisdom, God allowed death to enter the present world so that in the future world His grace would be able to bring life and immortality to all. “God divided the creation into two states, the present and the future. In the latter he will bring all to immortality and immutability. In the former he gives us over to death and mutability. For if he had made us at first immortal and immutable, we should not have differed from irrational animals, who do not understand the peculiar characteristics by which they are distinguished. “For if we had been ignorant of mutability we could not have understood the good of immutability. Ignorant of death, we could not have known the true worth of immortality. Ignorant of corruption, we could not have properly valued incorruption. Ignorant of the burden of sinful passions, we could not have duly exulted in freedom from such passions. In a word, ignorant of an experiment of evils, we should not have been able properly to understand the opposite forms of good.” -- Theodore When all is said and done, God will have used the forces of evil to accomplish something far greater than what would have been if He had never given us the freedom to choose between right and wrong. All those He created will have come to know in their experience the difference between good and evil . . . and will have freely chosen good. I hope this is helpful. God bless.

[@vronji]

It's found in the scriptures. I believe that God didn't do it automatically because we wants us to experience the opposite, in order to get closer with him, since he created both good and evil, good and bad, light and darkness.

[@visa6127]

God isn't going to loose to his own creation, satan. He made him for a reason(adversary), and will restore him.

[@KevinGeneFeldman]

This guy is saying that God will not force you to make a choice, but in hell he rejects your ever being able to make a choice as you are there forever with no hope of redemption. Where is the free will in an eternal hell being roasted in agony? I think a rather sizeable amount of people in hell would freely choose to leave by acknowledging their sin and accepting Christ, but God will say no? His argument is absurd, its all based on how hell must be eternal suffering because of free will to not choose God but then he is saying that they will have no free will to choose God, or that God will not accept their choice to be redeemed. Thats sadistic. If God is all good and our morality is written on our heart from God and not one human being alive would even put satan himself in hell for eternity, what does that say about God?

[@GeorgeWSarris]

Great insight! Thanks for sharing it. God bless.

[@natemcguire5058]

Ah idk I see both sides although idk how genesis 2 17 would force Ect on the text

[@GeorgeWSarris]

If you'd like more information, may I encourage you to read my book - Heaven's Doors . . . Wider Than You Ever Believed! It's not expensive, and it contains a lot of information that you may find interesting and encouraging to your faith. God bless.

[@acetheo6864]

REGARDING THAT FREEWILL BUSINESS: The "freewillers" use an analogy of a gift-wrapped present which one must open and “accept” to be enjoyed. A closer, more Biblical analogy is one my wife told me of…A Bridge operator, whose little son was playing on the bridge. When suddenly a cruise (party) ship appeared. The bridge operator had to decide between opening the bridge and killing his son… or not and destroying the ship and those aboard. He opened the bridge. His son died. The Ship passed under. They were saved. Those partying continued to party. Someone gave their life that they might live. Did they know? Had they heard? Did they believe? No, no, no. Yet their salvation from death and disaster was assured, guaranteed. Now, we tell those people, someone died that they might live. Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners. And you "must" believe FOR it is true. Not to make it true... but because it already is true.

[@fireandworms]

So the more Biblical analogy is the one that isn't in the Bible? 🤔

[@TheMorning_Son]

God violates the fallen free will of fallen man. God frees mans free will when He recapitulated everything through Christ our new Adam. Adam technically violated mans free will through his one act of disobedience. When mans free will is one with the will of God it is functioning according to it's TRUE nature and man is truly himself in God he is truly free. Evil is not required to have true free will.

[@cephyr13]

I wish Sarris had said to Rankin, "If you let everyone drink a little water and ask them if it's wet and if they like it and will drink more, everyone will say, 'Yes, it's wet and I'm okay with drinking more of it.' Did those people have a free will choice to decide if the water was wet and if they'd drink more of it (especially considering it keeps them alive)?" Rankin would've answered yes. Then Sarris could've said, But you just argued that if the outcome is only one way, then there's no free will choice--the people are being forced. That's not true, though. The fact is that the reason everyone answered yes to the water being wet is because it's a fact that it's wet. And the reason they said they'd drink more is because it's something that everyone likes, everyone drinks, and everyone needs to survive, even if they have to drink it in sodas or other liquid drinks. The same thing is true of God and man. We need God and His love and life Iif we are to live. If His love and life are taken from us after this life and we suffer in Hell, even for a little while, we'll let anyone help us get out of there, even Jesus. Why? Because it humbles us and destroys us. Our pride that was keeping us from choosing God before, is broken in Hell. I guarantee that anyone stuck there for just a little while will accept Jesus' help if Jesus comes and says, "Hey, you want me to rescue you from this place?" It's not because there's no free will due to only one outcome for everyone. It's because it's a fact that if we get ourselves into a horrific place of pain like Hell, we will definitely choose Christ and His salvation to get out of there and we will be thankful for it. Period. End of story. Rankin is saying that God is so selfish that He would leave those people down there even though they'd gratefully accept Him, or he's saying that God's so cruel He would make them stay there for eternity just because they didn't choose Him...because He respects free will. Well, where's His respect for free will when the person in Hell would freely choose to get out of there by choosing Jesus once they're stuck there? God's respect for free will changes suddenly at the judgment? Weird. Doesn't sound like God resembles the verse that says God is the same yesterday, today, and forever if that's the case.

[@GeorgeWSarris]

Good thoughts, Brian. Thank you for sharing them. God bless.

[@cephyr13]

@@GeorgeWSarris That's awesome that you actually read these KZbin comments. So few do. I just went back and reread my post above that you commented on. It had a lot of typos that made it hard to understand so I corrected and edited it slightly for clarity. My autocorrect really butchers my typing if I'm not careful. "If" becomes "I'd" and that can really be confusing. I must've been in a hurry when I typed that.

[@GeorgeWSarris]

@@cephyr13 I do try to read all the comments because I often learn something from them or am encouraged by them. I know what you mean about the autocorrect. It often makes us say something we never intended. Anyway, God bless you as you continue in your journey of growing closer to God.

[@cephyr13]

@@GeorgeWSarris Thanks, George. You, too.

[@Spartanthermopylae]

Hebrews 9:27 makes it clear that, after death, it's too late.

[@AngelofHogwarts]

Just a question: What is your interpretation of: "And if your eye causes you to fall into sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell, where ‘their worm NEVER dies, and the fire is NEVER quenched.’" - Mark 9: 48 "Then He will say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, you who are cursed, into the ETERNAL fire prepared for the devil and his angels." - Matthew 25: 41 From how I'm seeing it, after the fall we're all automatically on our way to hell and Jesus is the lifeboat. If works cannot save...how can anything but faith in Jesus save? I'm not sure what happens to all the people who never heard the gospel though -- Jesus gives them that chance during judgement?? And there are different levels of suffering based on deeds?

[@GeorgeWSarris]

That is a great question. From my book, Heaven's Doors . . . Wider Than You Ever Believed! -- "The real meaning of unquenchable fire is not that it keeps burning forever. The real meaning is that the fire doesn’t go out until it does what it’s intended to do. It’s not put out - or quenched - until its purpose is accomplished. The historian Eusebius says that certain martyrs of Alexandria were burned in inextinguishable fire, even though the fire he was referring to was extinguished in the course of an hour. It was put out or quenched after it had accomplished its purpose. Jesus wasn’t referring to the duration of punishment in the afterlife in this passage. He was saying that the fire and worm will completely accomplish their purifying purpose of ridding the area of disease and filth. Notice, too, that He said nothing about the person or the person’s body that is thrown into Gehenna. It’s the fire that’s not quenched, and the worm that doesn’t die." As I said in the debate, God's love is unconditional. His power is irresistible. And He never gives up. His grace is still at work in the age or ages to come. God bless.

[@AngelofHogwarts]

Interesting explanation. However, after watching the entire debate...I have to say that I agree with the gentleman on the right (John?). The whole point of verses that say "broad is the way to destruction..." is to show the urgency and seriousness of the matter. We share the gospel with the same urgency because it's now or never. Why would somebody who is suffering in hell be inspired to say "You know what...I think I'll finally take up your offer, Jesus"? Does that not belittle the huge sacrifice of the Lamb? If everyone just goes to time out for a little bit and then is ushered into heaven, what was the point of Jesus' cross and resurrection? My grandfather was a great man but I know he is not in heaven right now and he never even heard the gospel. But I think he will get the chance to hear it during judgement and make a decision. But for those who willingly reject the gospel and die, I think the Bible is clear about that. That is why this is called the Age of Grace...we have the opportunity to turn around and repent right now and receive the free gift. God is loving but He is also Holy. And what about the whole "God gave them up to reprobate minds" thing? Do you believe that's also just temporary?

[@GeorgeWSarris]

Why do people repent in this life? Pressures build until they come to a point where they understand the sinfulness of sin, its effects in their lives and the lives of others, and their need for God's grace. The same would be true for those in hell. God doesn't give up on sinners. Hell is a place where the issues and contrasts are brought into sharper focus. Where does Scripture call this "The Age of Grace?" Scripture makes it clear that God's grace continues into the ages to come. Note what Paul says in the context of salvation in Ephesians 2:6-8 -- "And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, IN ORDER THAT IN THE COMING AGES HE MIGHT SHOW THE INCOMPARABLE RICHES OF HIS GRACE, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus. For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith -- and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God . . . " The only thing that UR is suggesting that is different from what is commonly taught about salvation is that physical death does not mark the end of when God works in the hearts of individuals. Rather, He continues to work in the lives of men and women in the ages to come. Hell is not a substitute for the work of Christ, it is simply another means by which God will -- through the ages -- bring souls to a point where they recognize their need for Him and His saving grace through Christ. The only verse that seems to limit God to this life is Hebrews 9:27, and that just says that people will face "judgment" after death. It doesn't indicate at all what that judgment is. UR simply says that God continues to work throughout the ages to bring all to a point of repentance and acceptance, in keeping with His stated desire that all men be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth.

[@shanefraser2193]

George W. Sarris I love what you've said but I'm not so sure that the only way to repent is for pressure from sin consequences to build up to reveal our need for God because I think a lot of people don't get to experience real genuine unconditional love and don't grasp the love character of God and that is what holds them back from repentance. The Christian church for the most part of the last 1500 years have hidden that love by the ETC doctrine. Rather showing God to be a tyrant God. A God that's love is no greater or less fragile then humans and actually more evil then any. How can we blame people for not trusting the God we present to them when we say turn or burn? When true Love is revealed whether in this age or the next the people will turn to Him 😀

[@GeorgeWSarris]

I agree with what you are saying. Many people have rejected a caricature of God, not the true God. And many will respond to His unconditional love and turn to Him when they see it. God works in various ways in peoples' lives here and in the age to come. God bless.

[@Thebibleguy96]

John severely underestimates the patience and love of God.

[@russe130]

God says he knows the end from the beginning. If he knows that then he would know that the majority of mankind would end up in hell.when he created man he said it was very good.how could he say that the creation of man was very good when the majority of them were going to end up in hell.

[@GeorgeWSarris]

Good thoughts. Thank you for sharing them.

[@therealjakedean3317]

Russ Ervin that question can bear the same meaning without introducing hell. If it is a lie for God to say “IT IS GOOD” to something that IS GOOD but He knows will become “NOT GOOD” = then it would make God a liar for originally declaring it good. If God is a liar it would therefore follow we have no basis to trust anything He says, which would then follow we couldn’t know anything at all about Him or His creation. Our only honest options at that point would be nihilism / philosophical skepticism. Thankfully, God is not a liar and He made a, factual, TEMPORAL declaration regarding His TEMPORAL creation. After He judged His Creation by cursing it to be NOT GOOD (the fall) He then, factually (because He cannot lie), would declare “IT IS NOT GOOD”. Christ Himself said “no one is good but God.” Thankfully, because Christ’s perfect righteousness/goodness being imputed on our behalf, God then declares, of Us, His redeemed people, “IT IS GOOD”. But it is the fear of the Lord that is the beginning of knowledge/understanding and you can’t believe a statement if you don’t know/understand it. This is how the law was our TUTOR to Christ - by inducing fear. Because the law brings knowledge of sin (you’re not a sinner BECAUSE you’ve trangressed Gods commandments, you are a sinner THEREFORE you trangress Gods commandments. The law is there to show the problem) and knowledge of ones wickedness brings fear of Gods judgement (because if He is a good and just judge, He must therefore judge wickedness), from fear of The Good/Just God comes the cry for His mercy and help. Christ came for the sick/sinners (those who cry for His help) not for the “healthy/righteous”. Christ only pays the debt of, and credits His perfect obedience/goodness to the account of, those who are SINNERS (those who are NOT good/have NO good). The healthy have no need of a physician. There’s a rabbit trail to the gospel, which we can never hear to much of 😉. But it’s a good reminder that God never lies when He declares something “good/not good” and the basis of His declaring it - because all these facts are required to understand the law and the gospel. (Required to understand and therefore required to believe. Salvation comes through belief in the gospel and, by Gods grace, because of Christ’s substitutionary atonement + imputed righteousness on behalf of His Bride). - God bless, grace and peace in Christ ❤️

[@janetdavidson8798]

Revelation says Satan, the false prophet and all unsaved people will be cast alive into the lake of fire which is the second death. No rest day or night . Their worm dieth not . The smoke of their TORMENT ascends forever AND ever . ( You have to be conscious to feel pain ). Revelation supercedes because it's the final event.

[@GeorgeWSarris]

Janet, thank you for your comment. In response, let me say that the Scriptural idea of the lake of fire is that of a refiner's fire. The text literally says that the wicked will be thrown into a lake that is burning with fire and sulfur. We're also informed that the devil, the beast and the false prophet are there, and they will be tormented day and night for ever and ever -- literally, for ages of ages - meaning, a very long time. While that definitely sounds like something horrendous beyond description in the English translations, the words in their original language give a much different picture of what the purpose of the lake of fire really is. The word translated sulfur originally referred to fire from heaven. It was connected with sulfur because it was used in pagan religious rites for purification. Pre-Roman civilizations used it as a medicine, a fumigant, a bleaching agent and in incense. And the Romans used sulfur or fumes from its combustion as an insecticide, and to purify a sick room to cleanse its air of evil. The term translated torment actually means to test by the proving stone, to test the genuineness of. For the apostle John and his readers in the ancient world, the lake of fire was not a place of unending torture with no purpose other than to inflict pain. It was a refiner's fire. Its purpose was to purify and cleanse from evil - to destroy evil, so that the evil-doer could ultimately be restored. As I said in my book, God's love is unconditional. His power is irresistible. And He never gives up. By the way, if you haven't read my book, may I encourage you to do so. It isn't expensive, and you may find it interesting, informative and actually encouraging to your faith. God bless.

[@billclass5847]

Atheists and Satanists do not believe in HELL. NEITHER DOES THE SDA. Ellen G. White taught that when the Levites offered a Sacrifice of "Burnt offering" that the animal received, the Adventist definition of *"Eternal punishment"* . *What fool, besides the Adventist teaches that animals receive "eternal punishment" when offered to God by the Levites!? Ellen G. White was a false teacher. Sheol or Hades NEVER means annihilation or soul sleep!.*

[@Hope4myfriend]

John Rankin doesn't look good here. But I think no one would if he opposes UR. :-)

[@TheHumbuckerboy]

I would really be interested in viewing other similar debates if you could possibly recommend any ?

[@chrisfrance9748]

Great Job George. I'm very impressed.

[@teachmetruth3539]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/hYuammiPgtCqhNk

[@opengates777]

Put God first in everything you do because death can come at any time! To die without making peace with God is the worse thing that can happen to anyone! Because the next time your eyes will be open if you are dead, you will find yourself at the judgement seat of God! We all have to stand before God oneday! V 2Co 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. 2Co 5:11 Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences. Isa 45:22-23 Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else. I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear. v 2Co 5:10-11 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences. v Rom 14:10-13 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God. So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God. Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way. v Mar 6:11 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear you, when ye depart thence, shake off the dust under your feet for a testimony against them. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city. Mat 12:36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment. Mat 12:37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned. Dan 7:9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire. Dan 7:10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the BOOKS WERE OPENED. Rev 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; AND THE BOOKS WERE OPENED: AND ANOTHER BOOK WAS OPENED, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. Rev 20:15 AND WHOSOEVER WAS NOT FOUND WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF LIFE WAS CAST INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE. 1Pe 4:14 If ye be reproached for the name of Christ, happy are ye; for the spirit of glory and of God resteth upon you: on their part he is evil spoken of, but on your part he is glorified. 1Pe 4:15 But let none of you suffer as a murderer, or as a thief, or as an evildoer, or as a busybody in other men's matters. 1Pe 4:16 Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf. 1Pe 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God? 1Pe 4:18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear? 1Pe 4:19 Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator. 2Pe 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. 2Pe 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. 2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. 2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 2Pe 3:11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, 2Pe 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? 2Pe 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness. 2Pe 3:14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.

[@chrisjones8743]

If hell is abolished, what happens to Satan and his Demons?

[@GeorgeWSarris]

Chris, good question. I believe that Satan and his demons will come to a point where they, too, will recognize their need for God's saving grace, humble themselves before God and turn from sin. Proverbs 21:30 tells us that there is no wisdom, no insight, no plan that can succeed against the LORD. At the end of the initial creation, God looked on all He had made and declared that it was very good. At the end of time, God will again look on all of creation and once again declare that it is very good. Evil will not exist forever. It will be completely defeated. I mentioned my book in answer to your earlier question. Let me again encourage you to get a copy - Heaven's Doors . . . Wider Than You Ever Believed! God bless.

[@maruscatarabella9623]

George W Sarris thank you, well presented with passion.🧡 John C. Rankin, Adam and Eve didn't not choose to die, ( who in their right mind would do that? unless the meaning of death was not clear to them?) They chose not death, they chose to believe what was presented to them by the Tempter there is a big difference, i am not a "qualified" theologian, because i have not a degree yet, but i have been studying scriptures all my life and i have personally known the love and mercy of God ( long story/testimony) and this is a long subject, i know, but i am coming to be convinced that the fall, sin and evil was allowed ( in God's plan) for good; satan and the fallen angels are doing what they "need" to do... in order for the Eternal, irresistible, inescapable, never failing Love and Mercy of God be manifested in a greater way, when all shall be restored to glory. " O Felix Culpa quae talem meruit habere redemptorem." Withouth it , we wouldn't have truly known the depths of God's love and mercy.

[@GeorgeWSarris]

Thank you for sharing your thoughts, Marusca. God bless.

[@johnholby]

Reading Romans 9-11 In those 3 chapters I could see that God has a plan to save the whole world through Jesus Christ. I found the key verses Romans 11:11 was the perfect answer to a great question and Romans 11:23 and the final verse 32 before the Doxology.

[@acetheo6864]

You must RECEIVE the gift of salvation, right? You must RECEIVE 39 lashes... like Paul did... five times.

[@acetheo6864]

II COR ... Paul says He RECEIVED 39 lashes... FIVE TIMES...

[@h.o.w.d2161]

This is very interesting.... to start out I'm a universalist.... I see John is really hung up on the grammer in Genesis 2:17.... I think the simple way to get this point across to him is to point out that Jesus paid for our sin with a physical death... In simplicity, if eternal hell were true, to pay our wage for sin, Jesus would have had to die and be in eternal torment forever to pay our wage and be our savior.... The fact that he paid a physical death shows exactly what the wage for our sin is.... simply death.... This battle with eternal hell is a tough one.... its going to be a long battle..... and I think another great argument is the parable of the rich man and Lazerus..... The rich man was in torment looking up at Lazerus in paradise...... why such a set up in hell if there is no way out.... its an obvious set up for the rich man to see that he was not kind in life so he might repent..... Props to you George for standing up to the bibles truth..... I also use the argument of simple justice.... A just God cannot give out a punishment worse than the crime or he is not just.... and eternal punishment is far worse than any crime.... Mathew 7:2 says what you measure out will be measured back..... this is the true statement of justice, we will need to repent for every sin..... that's what a just God would require

[@GeorgeWSarris]

Thank you for your insights and encouragement. God bless.

[@mr.e1220]

I would really love to believe in Christian universalism oh, but even after reading a very good book called hope Beyond hell, I just can't get around the scriptures that teach the destruction of the wicked and that not everyone will enter the kingdom of heaven. I believe in conditional immortality. I never knew the view until I came across it in a KZbin debate and I felt it to be the most biblical. Deep down I hope someday that I could be wrong and maybe God will save those that go to the Lake of Fire second death.

[@GeorgeWSarris]

@@mr.e1220 If you are able, read my book - Heaven's Doors . . . Wider Than You Ever Believed! It addresses many of the issues you are probably wrestling with. God bless.

[@TyehimbaJahsi]

I'm sorry, but John's assumption that his "grammar argument" somehow made a sound case for the eternality of Hell is beyond ridiculous! And yet, not only did he show up the weakness of his argument by his need to CONSTANTLY interrupt, but he just couldn't seem to see how his own argument painted a weak and pathetic picture of both God's love and His sovereignty.

[@LarryLarpwell]

The man arguing against George are so angry and so obsessed with casting men into hell at a spiritual level you can see a real difference in the human beings, and the doctrine that they believe

[@OperationReapSinners777]

Laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life. SINNERS TAKE HEED LAY HOLD OF ETERNAL LIFE, GOD IS SOON TO COME! Psa 37:9 For evildoers shall be cut off: but those that wait upon the LORD, they shall inherit the earth. Psa 37:10 For yet a little while, and the wicked shall not be: yea, thou shalt diligently consider his place, and it shall not be. Psa 37:11 But the meek shall inherit the earth; and shall delight themselves in the abundance of peace. Isa 13:9 - Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it. Isa 13:10 - For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine. Isa 13:11 - And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible. Mal 4:1 - For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch. Mal 4:2 - But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall. Mal 4:3 - And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts. Rev 20:11 - And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. Rev 20:12 - And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. Rev 20:13 - And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. Rev 20:14 - And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. Rev 20:15 - And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

[@Hibernial]

Something to consider in light of Revelation 20:15 is that looking at the story of Paul, Saul became Paul after being dealt with by the Lord. Saul came to realize he was persecuting the Lord Himself by attacking His Body of believers. His time in blindness that exposed his inner blindness separated from the Father and coming to terms with his actions was a limited but due sentence. His old self died, and his new life in Christ became who he was. So his old name under a nature of Adam as a fallen man was no more, and his new name in Christ’s nature was revealed to him.

[@OperationReapSinners777]

@@Hibernial Thank God for Paul's conversion. Let's see what love of God is really like towards us from these verses 🙏 👍 V Mar 8:34 And when he had called the people unto him with his disciples also, he said unto them, Whosoever will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. Mar 8:35 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it; but whosoever shall lose his life for my sake and the gospel's, the same shall save it. Mar 8:36 For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?Mar 8:37 Or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?Mar 8:38 Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels. Jhn 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. Jhn 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. Jhn 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Jhn 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. Jhn 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit. Jhn 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:Jhn 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. Jhn 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. Jhn 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. Jhn 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. Jhn 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. Jhn 3:20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. Jhn 3:21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God. Jhn 3:35 The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand. Jhn 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. Jhn 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. Jhn 14:24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me. Jhn 15:13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends. Jhn 15:14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you. Jhn 15:19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

[@lauraanderson7358]

is contraception a mortal sin ?

[@GeorgeWSarris]

I would say no. But, having said that, I think God wants people to have large families. He commanded Adam & Eve to be fruitful and multiply. He repeated that command to Noah. And He says children are a blessing. We have a tendency today to think of children as either a curse (just wait until your kids hit the teenage years!), or a status symbol (my child was on the honor roll, or won first prize, etc. at school).

[@lauraanderson7358]

@@GeorgeWSarris you must know that the birth control pill is an abortifacient. it often destroys a fertilized egg. is that not destroying life ? is that nor murder ? when do you believe life begins ????????????

[@lauraanderson7358]

@@GeorgeWSarris you must know that the birth control pill is an abortifacient. it often destroys a fertilized egg. is that not destroying a life ??? is that not murder ??? when do you believe life begins ?????

[@lauraanderson7358]

@@GeorgeWSarris you must know that the birth control pill is an abortifacient. it often destroys a fertilized egg. that contraception destroys that life. when do you believe life begins ?????????

[@lauraanderson7358]

hello ???????????

[@scarfaceson2011]

Revelation 20King James Version (KJV) 20 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. 2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, 3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season. 4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. 7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, 8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. 9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. 10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. 11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

[@GeorgeWSarris]

Scardog Bones, may I encourage you to read my book. It is written from a clearly Biblical, theologically conservative perspective and addresses the teaching in the book of Revelation, as well as many other Scriptures. I'm convinced that Scripture is the inerrant Word of God, and I'm also convinced that it teaches that God will ultimately restore all of His creation.

[@scarfaceson2011]

yeah i know of your books. was debating one of those who honors you and your writings. he argued your points. i simply dont agree

[@GeorgeWSarris]

I would still encourage you to actually read what I wrote. You might even be pleasantly surprised. God bless.

[@tiffanyweber3028]

I encourage you to research the translations of the Bible. KJV people are told that it’s the “true word of God” but it has many many errors. Start looking at original Greek and Hebrew text. You will see torment means a touchstone ( something to purify) and eternal means (age of time) Do you believe every knee in heaven and on earth will bow and confess to God? Doesn’t it also say those who confess are saved.

[@ashmarie5424]

SCARDOG BONES 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻 how is everyone saved when they experience the second death and are thrown into the lake of fire?! You really have to ignore so much scripture to believe everyone gets saved

[@josephminder7366]

Hell is cruel and indefensible.

[@madelinerene6805]

I do believe the scriptures teach that God will draw all men and all will be restored through Christ. But the man who is the universalist is not the best one to debate this issue. He is using too many analogies and emotion to bring his point across. Even though I agree with his theology, he needs to be more knowledgeable with the original language and grammar. His opponent is proving his point with more success.. I feel they should have used a universalist with more knowledge of the scriptures and Greek/Hebrew language.

[@KKKaTTT123]

Unfortunately the only logical conclusion if you start READING and TRANSLATING the bible - AND putting the old testament in to its proper context, is that Christianity is very much constructed as we know it today. Ancient christianity was very torn between a practical jewish messiah and a mustical greek/platonic soul believing saviour (Jesus was both or one of each depending on the sect). I believe in Jesus Christ But I cant say I am a "christian" any more Not after studying.

[@DDCaldwellnot1lost]

John Rankin is so insecure he cannot quit talking much but hogging way more time in the conversation; keeps saying "just a minute, just a minute" butting in, cutting off George mid sentence going on and on in his uncertainty. I had to laugh at him LOL!!! John continues to go on and on with his "High sounding theological arguments and Hebrew grammar" So funny, just like the pharisees, can’t see the forest for the trees, the LOVE of God for the Grammar of the language... LOL!

[@YoshiBlad3]

John interrupted so many times. It's funny that, it's almost as if people who are scared of their worldview being shattered get defensive and panic.

[@GeorgeWSarris]

I think you're right. We all need to be sure that we are pursuing truth, and not just defending doctrine. That was the problem with the Pharisees of old.

[@jasonegeland1446]

Also, Augustine and The Latin Vulgate

[@jdoe7674]

not even that think about this look at a child compared to yourself in terms of knowledge u obviously know way more than a child even if there not yours as an adult it’s your responsibility to protect children so if you see someone else’s child about to run into the street being an intellectual superior to that child your suppose to stop them by any means necessary even if that means grabbing them and pulling them away from the road against there will and no judge in there right mind would tell you that you were wrong to violate the child’s free will in that way and God is infinitely more just than any human judge yes the Bible says we can’t understand his ways but that’s because his ways are so great not because they are so different he gave us a sense of right and wrong a moral compass he didn’t ask us to completely abandon that moral compass in order to be saved and my moral compass tells me eternal suffering is wrong even for the person that supposedly wants it

[@tomnowlin7396]

Ignorance of who God and Christ are is the only reason anyone could reject them. God is love and all who come to know Him will love him. The many different versions of the Christian religion state that ignorance, human will, evil, etc are more powerful forces than the love of God; which is not true.

[@OperationReapSinners777]

Let's see what love of God is really like towards us from these verses 🙏 👍 V Mar 8:34 And when he had called the people unto him with his disciples also, he said unto them, Whosoever will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. Mar 8:35 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it; but whosoever shall lose his life for my sake and the gospel's, the same shall save it. Mar 8:36 For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?Mar 8:37 Or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?Mar 8:38 Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels. Jhn 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. Jhn 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. Jhn 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Jhn 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. Jhn 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit. Jhn 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:Jhn 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. Jhn 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. Jhn 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. Jhn 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. Jhn 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. Jhn 3:20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. Jhn 3:21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God. Jhn 3:35 The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand. Jhn 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. Jhn 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. Jhn 14:24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me. Jhn 15:13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends. Jhn 15:14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you. Jhn 15:19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

[@robbchristopher158]

I started the question a lot over the last several weeks my belief in universal reconciliation. But there are a couple of examples that will always keep me on the universal reconciliation side. One being the conversion of Paul and the other being what happened in the case of King Nebuchadnezzar.

[@KKKaTTT123]

I feel bad for the hell mongerer :(