WILL IT RUN AGAIN? FIXING THE REAL PROBLEM WITH MY 632CI BIG BLOCK CHEVY RACE MOTOR!

Episode 297 of Mike Finnegan's Garage sees us heading to Mooresville, North Carolina to visit Pete Harrell and Mike Moore. The goal is to further our diagnosis as to why the valves are hitting the pistons of our really expensive 632ci Big Block Chevy race engine. In Episode 282, after a disastrous weekend of racing, we tore the entire engine down in my home garage only to discover some major issues with parts hitting other parts inside the aluminum V8. In this episode we discover why.
Don't forget about my biggest giveaway yet for a vehicle from my personal collection plus other cool prizes.
Head over to www.fsmgarage.com for your chance to enter to win my 1970 Datsun 510! Two runner-up winners will receive a Wirecare Motorsports wiring kit and six runner-up winners, will receive an autographed FSM Flexfit hat. Official rules can be found at www.fsmgarage.... and no purchase is necessary to enter. As always, head over to www.wirecare.com for all of your wiring needs.
Good luck and Thanks for watching!
-Finnegan

[@TheF1shh]

This fkn Pete guy just laid out a basic big lift valvetrain class in minutes that was more digestible than anyone I've ever heard talk about it.

[@briandstephmoore4910]

You don’t know Pete? He’s real good at doin stuff

[@BlackbeardJohnson]

Dude Pete is the man. He tunes and builds Cletus McFarlands LS builds. In fact Pete’s LS 427 in cletes corvette is the first stick shift vette in the 6’s in the world. Pete is a legendary engine builder and tuner.

[@BlackbeardJohnson]

@@briandstephmoore4910hahaha indeed he is…😂😂

[@scottwhitmer2034]

Thats cause he's real good at doin stuff! lol

[@mikemakowski7237]

Pete also has a SICK sense of humor 😁😁😂🤣

[@UncleManuel]

Steve Morris and Pete Harrel are really just good at teaching engine stuff. They are not just saying "This has to be that way" but also talk about the why. This is the first time in years that I actually understood what that ramp rate is and why solid rollers need a certain lash. Mind = blown! 😎🤟 And yes, Pete is really good at doin' stuff. 😁

[@NBSV1]

Yep. Even a lot of pro engine builders don’t really understand how important the ramp rates are to valve control. They just want big lift and big duration so it makes good power. Steve had that engine a while ago that was having problems so he did his own cam for it. Showed how well he knows his stuff when the “specs” of his cam was more mild, but it made more power and wasn’t abusing the valve train nearly as bad.

[@PiDsPagePrototypes]

Yep, not only what Ramp Rate is, but how it impacts the starting and stopping of the valves motions, and the pushrods inertia. About the only thing not covered was how larger lifter diameter enables steeper ramp angles, which is why Muscle Car era MoPar cams were always wilder 'stock' then modified cams on GM's and Fords, thanks to having a wider lifter.

[@Mynameisthesenuts49]

Steve not so much. He puts on more than he knows.

[@patmanz28]

I think I learned more from this episode of Finnegan's garage then many of them put together. Never thought about the valve lash versus acceleration thing.

[@codysp]

It's going to be real interesting to see how this engine runs after the doctors visit. Nice work Pete!

[@chrisconley3579]

Pete never stops teaching so much. Valve geometry explained in such a consumable way.

[@davelara1603]

Great job. Mr. Finnegan and friends! I can’t understate how much I appreciate your approach to tackling all challenges around fabrication and mechanics. I’ve been patiently waiting three months for this update. I very rarely comment on videos but when I saw the original video on this engine posted , I had to comment. It’s difficult to comment for fear of being apart of the frustrating armchair experts. Knowledge in mechanics and fabrication is hard earned mostly by setbacks, failures and frustration, but your willingness to persist should be an inspiration to all watching. The comments I left on the last video sit near the top. I can’t know if it helped inspire you to look into the solution but I wouldn’t have posted unless my own failure had taught me the lesson. I’m so happy this engine is on the road to recovery. Keep up the great work!

[@skipper6567]

Pete knows stuff as well as good at doing stuff. There are very few people that could properly diagnose and fix this engine, Pete is one.

[@Pointless-fishing-adventures]

Real good at Knowing Stuff

[@Ericsaidful]

I mean, you do a Five Why and become systematic at figuring out what the issue could be, then you run experiments, then you find the issue. Anyone well versed in the scientific method could figure this out. Or even modern production QA.

[@robertwest3093]

I used to think that a small block 350 was a lot for a boat, only being around little outboard engines most of my life. But man this is insane! BTW that cam has enough lift for TWO camshafts 🤣

[@BrindiSea]

Mike Jones rockin' a Conch Republic hat. Kind of random. My home!

[@sb-st9ho]

Mike, love the analysis Pete provides. Get that boat back making noise.

[@robertrusso877]

Welcome to cam school from a guy who’s real good at doin’ stuff. Thanks for the lesson …

[@mikebrown8065]

MIKIE & JOE, thank you so much for sharing with PETE HARROLD & MIKE JONES the deciphering of the issue with the Big Block valve train you were experiencing. I definitely learned a lot!! THANK YOU!! I've watched guys slam extreme springs on their heads thinking it was necessary because of the massive lift camshaft they tossed in their engine. Or, they would play around with funky rocker arm ratios to compensate for a ridiculous radical camshaft. This episode was so very awesome with the knowledge and especially the description of: What to do, as well as, what not to do. Can't wait to see you drop in that big block and hopefully get to make a pass sometime this year!! 😎🇺🇲🇺🇲🇺🇲

[@eriddles]

Pete truly is an Apex Predator.

[@kenwillis8487]

Years ago I was looking for an engine builder local to where I lived in South Georgia. Told two different shops what I wanted the engine to do and that I wanted the stiffest valve train that could fit under under the the valve covers including bigger than normal pushrods cause that was what started the problem originally. One of the shops tried to convince me that smaller meant lighter and therefore more power, needless to say I didn’t use that shop!

[@johnniebarker9746]

Love Pete! Love the details. This is the best part of drag racing figuring out all your tolerances and specs and make everything as tight and efficient as possible. Thanx for sharing!

[@mikerhoads7010]

I’ve always found the valves to be closest at 10-12 degrees before and after TDC at overlap not at max lift🤔

[@bassettraceengines]

Pete is the man !!!

[@christopherspicer9341]

Looks like Pete is good at engines and very good at shooting.

[@user-neo71665]

Somebody had a bunch of parts they threw at an engine so they could make a quick buck. They just threw around part names to sell it. They didn't check anything when they threw the engine together. Engine wasn't even built to run and I'm surprised it made it pass break in. I've seen this a few times with guys "happen to have an engine" at the drag track and as soon as somebody buys it they pack up and get out of town. Always a bunch of fancy jewelry on the outside but the inside will be crappy used and/or junk parts.

[@Toddsnightmare]

Man pete really is real good at doing stuff

[@jeffmckc29]

I have used Mike Jones before and had very good luck he is very precise, so have all your information ready.

[@xozindustries7451]

Looks like you got a launcher cam! They are used in stock classes and launch the lifter off the cam to achieve higher lift than is allowed in the class

[@Thomas-ku8df]

Would be great to see the Caddy on the strip. Soon

[@naughtmeenaym869]

Pete's good at doing stuff.

[@Qballl]

Oh hey it's Pete, I hear he's real good a doing stuff

[@64CHEVYTWO248]

HI MIKE GREAT TO SEE THE ENGINE IS GOING TO WORK OUT !! PETE KNOWS WHAT HE IS DOING !! GET BACK OUT ON THE WATER !! HAVE A GREAT DAY TODD FROM MICHIGAN

[@ChrisJackson36]

Weren’t you having porosity issues with these heads too? Or was that resolved? Cool to see little changes mean great results. Great video.

[@NightShift1320]

I enjoy videos more when someone lets the experts explain whats going on without constantly interrupting and talking over them.

[@PiDsPagePrototypes]

Pete's face when he measured the valve lift,... And then listening to Mr Jones there,... I need that bloke to make me a Slant Six HyperPak cam, because finding people who can do that without just trying to put a GM lobe on a MoPar cam DownUnder,.. well,.. I haven't found one yet.

[@mjaymo]

Love this channel, would love the 510 but being in the UK counts me out of that comp.

[@299charles]

Is that a rubber timing chain??? Oh my…..

[@Alberta_Redneck]

i would like more racing and testing then fab work..

[@JohnPerry-l9b]

It's always good to make bad Decisions.... 😂😂 Keep doing what you do!!!

[@benshore7357]

Good times 🎉 lots of science and big words 🎉

[@norcalray7182]

Dose Pete have a KZbin channel? If not he should. That man has so much knowledge

[@TheMotorman80]

He does. I believe it’s called “Real good at doin stuff”

[@64Pete]

@@TheMotorman80 With the best damn intro's on the internets.

[@jamesgargan4679]

Just bought 4 shirts and a jumper can’t wait to be repping your merch over here in Aus 🤘🏼 Can you ship that Datsun over to Australia please 🙏🏼😂😂

[@Mys10v829]

Hey Finnegan, Steve magnante is literally losing the shop because of his med bills, he even said so in his recent video

[@brianholcomb6499]

Engine is at the right place 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻! When a 632 is correct, they make really good power, even N/A! I don’t think you want to use that 711 in the boat! Unless you are only running a small shot of nitrous! Those heads on the 711 do not like big shots of nitrous! There’s many engine builders that tried, they would only take about 1/2 the nitrous the wedge head would take! JS!

[@Corey-xd4kx]

i like joe but he needs to not interrupt Pete when hes sharing his brilliance with us.

[@JeffKopis]

I don't like Joe.

[@earlsnyder6452]

if you can save that motor i thin it would be so cool to drop it into a light weight drag car chassis and make a nitrous breathing monster out of it!!!!

[@georgem.6136]

Heck yeah, time to go racing & finally go fast! haha ok Faster!!

[@russellridge8623]

Great video. Lot of information.

[@brianlafollette7530]

Valve train is a wearable part, better to replace before failure because it will

[@martyroberson2091]

Awesomeness

[@ryanveret4088]

Wasnt that a Miller engine? Was Mike not able to fix it?

[@chuckyz2]

32:00 It may not be perfect? I would say, "make it perfect".

[@randalljames1]

All you need now is a spintron....

[@smartgorilla]

Did he use calculator. Legend status of this channel reached.

[@VitoF111]

You really should have gotten a new cam and lifters for it. I'm not convinced the quick regrind is going to resolve the issues. Obviously, this one was way off. I'd have called both Bullet and Comp and got new recommendations based on the engine specs and usage. Good luck!

[@MikeJones-zj5lj]

Actually, the original cam wasn't far off at all. The issue with the lobe profiles was that they were "Tight Lash" designs(.014"-.016" Hot Valve Lash), but because this is an aluminum block/aluminum heads engine, even if they set the cold lash at .000", when it got hot the lash would grow beyond the end of the lash ramp, and well onto the acceleration ramp. This was putting the valve acceleration at the lash point well beyond what the valve-train could handle.

[@JeffKopis]

You don't know Mike Jones'es credentials. This guy makes NASCAR Cup Series cams.

[@NBSV1]

The regrind makes it a new cam. No more than they changed it hitting the specs they’d get with a new cam was relatively easy.

[@VitoF111]

@@MikeJones-zj5lj Just set the lash hot.

[@MikeJones-zj5lj]

@@VitoF111 great idea, but how to start the engine again, because when it cools down, the lash will tighten up so much, the valves will never close. Hard to compress the air fuel mixture, when the valves don't close.

[@ericpaul7898]

I really don't mean to be a hater but I watch the channel to see Finnegan. While I'm sure Joe is a great guy and all, he isn't why I watch the channel. I realize that Joe helped out a lot when your foot was busted to keep the videos coming. Maybe consider a second channel for the Joe stuff.

[@yotarunner77]

Sooooo has anyone else watch this at 1.25x speed? Pete sounds just like Newbern 😂

[@Mike.T402]

Keep the Datsun and give that damn boat away

[@JeffKopis]

Yeah I couldnt care less about boats. I dont care how fast they go. Planes are fast, but they suck too!😂

[@enigma02g]

1. You can never have too many cars. 2. you literally have a warehouse to store them in. Keep the car

[@saturnfivehynrgrc581]

Like button energized algorithm agitation.

[@joeguerra6044]

That doesn't make sense. . . I get that the valve may be bouncing off the seat from being dropped b/c of the lash. . . but you're an order of magnitude away in your clearance. That is, if the valve is being dropped 0.014", it's not bouncing 0.140" off the seat. If you drop a basketball from a foot, it doesn't bounce 10' into the air.

[@xtr3m3fLx]

LOL It was all explained. Not our fault you can't understand it.

[@MikeJones-zj5lj]

It's not the seat bounce that's causing the piston to valve issue. It's the valve lofting over the nose. Because of the extremely fast acceleration rate at the lash point, The valve train is flexing, and as the valve slows down towards max lift, all that stored energy in the valve train causes the valve to loft, and no longer follow the cam profile. That means the engine is seeing much more exhaust lift than designed, as the piston is moving up towards TDC.

[@JamesCreighton-tx7gs]

Next comment.

[@brandongreene3213]

Gotta love a Sunday, I hear Pete is Real good at doing stuff.

[@CMSFan2010]

I can’t wait.

[@AbbStar1989]

@@CMSFan2010 Say it like you mean it!

[@CMSFan2010]

I CANT WAIT!

[@KimiWallrus]

His Walmart bought jams are 👌 too.

[@iceman22m]

Right off the top of my head, I can think of one more motor that needs to have the cam doctor treatment, And a little trip to see Pete wouldn't hurt either!

[@brucejohnson6398]

One of the most madly informative eps yet. It was obvious Cam Man (aka Mike Jones) had trouble throttling his insane amount of knowledge and experience into human terms for us plebs to understand. The witch doctor practicing a bit of black magic...

[@Canadianchucknorris69]

Always a great day with Pete leading the class!

[@Berm_Blaster]

Mam that Pete guy is real damn good at doin some stuff. He shreds as well

[@jamesdaughtrey8185]

Pete is the man that’s why cleetus uses him for tuning and building engines now

[@ArthurSperotto]

I'm surprised Isky didn't provide a cam card with the regrind. That doesn't sound like them at all.

[@kh40yr]

Bought a 14° 632. Very narrow tuning window with Nitrous and 14° heads. Melted a few sets figuring it it out. Once it was dialed in, no one could catch us. Won the Championship.

[@JeffKopis]

Must be nice to be that rich...🙄

[@cw1824]

@@JeffKopis Jealous much?

[@kh40yr]

Oh yeah, Bling, Blang,,and Bang!

[@MrC9Oh3]

I could tune it

[@mitchfuller5493]

Pete is the man, knowledgeable without being arrogant…but that Mike miller guy that “rebuilt” the motor previous probably shouldn’t be looking at engines

[@Solamint1]

Fantastic episode! We take for granted how much good engine guys know. Time to take Rubber Duck to Pete.

[@Doubie.]

I’m to the point in the video where Phil is measuring the physical clearance there’s a lot of people from the last videos comments that owe miller an apology is that engine messed up definitely but for a rush job he didn’t miss measure that engine for piston to valve this is why you show grace not blow up on people it’s ultimately not helpful At least you found your hp leak and your reliability problems all at once sorry it had to go to the machine shop to figure that out though

[@michaelteasdale2919]

Your comment is all over the shop…..I’m so confused…

[@zappy7393]

@@michaelteasdale2919 I just added in my own punctuation but I got there... I’m to the point in the video where Phil is measuring the physical clearance, and there’s a lot of people from the last videos comments that owe miller an apology. Is that engine messed up? Definitely but for a rush job he didn’t miss measure the engine for piston to valve clearance. This is why you show grace, not blow up on people. It’s ultimately not helpful. At least you found your hp leak and your reliability problems all at once. Sorry it had to go to the machine shop to figure that out though.

[@allstylinone5122]

Sorry, gotta hate boats. Always money pits and take every extra minute of your time!

[@williamstamper442]

Pete is becoming my favorite engine dude on the correct side of the Mississippi river. When he shows us this cam doctor machine setup my level of respect went thru the roof. What a nice tool to have access to. This kind of episode is right up my alley, love watching people who really know what they are doing show us what they are doing. Pete really is "good at doing stuff"!

[@williamstamper442]

Or is it "really good at doing stuff"..? It's both or either LoL!

[@davidreed6070]

If the engine is built as a turbo engine,wouldnt the compression and cam need reevaluated?

[@JeffKopis]

Is Mike Jones the guy from Jones Cams, that David Vizard speaks so highly of?

[@doggonedk]

I'm surprised with that spring pressure and cam grind that you weren't tuliping valves also. Especially those honking 2.5" intakes. No doubt Pete's the man when it comes to doing stuff on motors.

[@Studio51media]

Yes! I was thinking the same thing!!

[@michaelatkin9649]

Do you not have lakes in Georgia? Lol seems ridiculous to drive all your stuff out to the otherside of the country all the time.

[@Matt-e4x]

You didn’t drop a valve, it was broken by hitting the piston over and over.

[@BIllMcCambridge]

Man that was so informative those guys know what's up. I can't even imagine how much time they have spent studying engine physics and real world results to have the expertise those guys have. Thanks so much for sharing their talents and y'all's adventures!!

[@crazylarryjr]

0.145" clearance, and it still hits? that tells me it's a mismatched spring and valve float situation Post cam doctor lookover, sounds like I was right on the float, except it's actually the cam ramp that is a mismatch, hadn't thought of that till he said that. The cam before grinding by Pete's description was almost equiv to a superstock drag cam. instant open/close to get the most out of the stock lift and duration. meaning very peaky in a designated RPM Range but practically useless anywhere else. It's also very harsh on the valvatrain of the engine

[@gravelunit]

I've always been lost on valvetrain math. It makes so much more sense now.

[@seancollins9745]

I rewatched the video a few times trying to get a better look at the rocker geometry, to my eyes, it appears someone put a longer valves in to get spring height and didn't adjust tge rocker stand height. The pushrod cup to tip angle is w fuckin mess, the rocker arms hitting the stands, all points to rocker stand height to low for that valve tip height. That's why it's snapping the pushrod tips off. Conbined with that ridiculous lash ramp, it is amazing ut revved up at all. Revisit those rocker stabd and valve tip heights

[@RussReynolds-fp9yr]

Its expensive but just get the 1000hp 632 crate engine with a warranty lol

[@tomstech4390]

If you watch those videos of slow-motion cam springs being compressed they can form a "slinky" effect, You can fully compress them static and they have clearance... but (theoretically) at speed the coils could still bounce off each other. Not saying this is the cause, just food for thought to anyone building an engine with allot of spring compression at high rpm.

[@andrewturner3090]

I like the content, especially as I can still watch it in the UK.

[@buckykattguitar]

I THINK, if you can get Discovery + there, you can watch the motor trend shows as well. If not, just get a vpn

[@billyj.williams2341]

Best cam guy in the world right there.... never had anything from Mike that wasn't fast and reliable... in the world of camshafts and valvetrains you can take his word like the word of god.

[@kevinnobody3052]

I know I've said this before but I learn so much from these videos. I dig this kind of content. Thanks guys for gear head content.

[@richfletcher4286]

So, it was an engine that someone tried to make the wrong parts work or was it a combination that just didn’t work?

[@NBSV1]

Likely just a combination that didn’t work. When you get deep into building race engines there’s so many factors that become important and so many parts that need to work together. With this someone likely just ordered a cam that was higher specs expecting it to work and make more power. That’s part of why a lot of engine builders tend to develop packages and specialize in a few specific engines.

[@JSki-kb8vf]

Pete talks...and the collective intelligence of all that can hear him goes up...trick of the week guys run for the hills...thanks.

[@Burke_Motorsports]

I was told there would be no math.

[@StickA-yd4fp]

Pete is a bad dude. I like how he explains stuff in simple terms. He is really good at doing stuff.

[@NZMOPAR]

wow that cam was cut real poorly to be bouncing the valves like that crazy stuff . nice work guys and Pete and his cam Man know their stuff and are real good at doing stuff i would say

[@NBSV1]

If it had been in an iron block it would have been ok. But, with all aluminum when the block and heads grow the lash increases. That was basically moving the lifters off the ramps which was making it slam the valves to much.

[@shmartin024]

Maybe I'm just imagining things.... But during the wrap-up, Joe looks EXHAUSTED.

[@juicebox853]

Imagine having to carry Finnegan

[@ummduhgmail]

​@@juicebox853😂😂😂

[@Highstranger951]

@@juicebox853absolutely

[@Racerman27410]

It's always good to have someone available who is Real good at doing stuff! Great detective work and explanation by Pete!

[@cantstandya1983]

That’s crazy. I had the same exact issue with my 582. It wasn’t breaking parts…yet (luckily)…so the builder suggested the exact same thing. Grind a better “ramp” and take some violence out of that valve train…and the car is actually slightly quicker!!👍👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

[@buckykattguitar]

.895" valve lift....damn. Knowing nothing about these high end big race motors, that lift shocks me. I thought my.627 lift big block was nuts lol.

[@shermanshelichannel6540]

That engine was a major disaster from the builder and I can't believe everyone is praising him lol. Its obvious it was a major slap job build. How do you miss the rockers hitting? Fkg rockers hitting causing massive valve harmonics and explosions being forgotten because the cam buddy talked about ramps and covered it up with a minute re grind lol

[@cobra427driver]

As someone who has ran a half dozen Mike Jones cams/valvetrain setups....😁

[@michaelatkin9649]

35:19 you actually are going back to work on roadkill?!

[@JeffKopis]

He never quit Roadkill. He quit Faster With Finnegan. And Newbern and Cotten have as much humor and charisma as garden slugs.

[@dweintz123]

not a good ad for manley valves

[@Wildkat9797]

"0.895, okay" yeah I thought more along the lines of that meme kid "jesus christ" to just keep it family friendly haha.

[@whereisamerica7384]

Always enjoy Pete. He explains everything instead of saying, give me a giant pile of 💵💵💵 it's magic.

[@5695q]

I watched the original video when you dropped the valve (Roadkill moment) and as you tore it down, my thought was cam, rocker ratio or spring issues. Thanks for posting this class on valve train geometry and why it will or will not work. Get the boat in the water, I want to see a full run with no problems, it should haul ass now.

[@black88coupe]

Is it my imagination or do Pete and Newburn sound alike????? LOL

[@ronnieboucherthecrystalcraftsm]

my 121 ci 4 cyl - has 82 closed - and 185 full opened ! valve spring pressure = NOT MUCH AT ALL - listening to these 632 ci v8 = i mean that is big big block !