Will Our New Gen V LT Cam Lobes Handle 10,000rpm? (Hydraulic Roller!)

[@diygaragetx]

Nick helped me spec a camshaft for my turbocharged 5.3. A big single, on methanol, turns 8800 like it's nothing. It's been together for 16months now, has near 100 passes on it and has yet to have a valve cover off of it! Nothing more than oil changes and keep an eye on the tune. 35psi boost and around 1300whp.

[@Jamesrdc]

Give us the specs!!!

[@diygaragetx]

@@Jamesrdc uh.. no. Call Nick and have him spec one.

[@Jamesrdc]

@@diygaragetx who is nick btw

[@diygaragetx]

@@Jamesrdc he's the one in the video they keep calling Nick. Nick Evdos.

[@techs1smh13]

You say stuff like that the ford crowd will not know what to do.

[@C6Z_Bob]

Well, you guys have won my business. I'm planning on building an 8000 rpm LS7 street car next year, so I'll be hitting you up for a cam!

[@lukesimeon5756]

DONT forget how important the valve train system is. ie: pushrods, springs. Retainers, locks , rocker arms , weight etc etc Just get one of these wrong and that 10k rpm lobe turns to 7500rpm lobe or less Everyone please remember the valve train is a SYSTEM not just one lobe on a cam . Great job BTR

[@shawnrinkel8377]

Impressive!! As a mechanic and gear head wow, just wow!

[@joeyjojojr.shabadoo915]

James is my new Hero, #2 only to Brian being at the top of my list. I have been reading as much as possible over the last while and even looking at OEM Stock High Performance Camshafts from the 60's in order to better understand how some current manufacturers are taking shortcuts. Not sure if relevant or not, but a number that has me a bit focused right now is the Ratio between Advertised Duration vs the @ 0.050" numbers, as I have been focusing on alot of Dynamic vs Static Compression stuff as well as Lobe stability for higher RPM, comparing the 'long friendly life' lobes used by some OEMs in order to make things live long, vs some of the aftermarket offerings that look good on paper, but knock out valve seats, kill valve train in general and are just overall violent by comparison. Keep up the great work guys.

[@ShorTuning]

Thanks you for the kind words! The values between the 0.006 and 0.050 and 0.200 is what we call lobe intensity and is a general rule you can use to determine the aggressiveness of the lobe. We take that a step further and look at the actual valve motion rather than just the lifter/lobe motion which gives a better look into the "high speed" side of the valvetrain. This is also why we have specific lobe profiles for each intended application because the lobes are dialed into the valve acceleration based off the rest of the geometry from the rockers and pushrod/lifter angles as well as the intended RPM range we desire to use them in. Turbo applications such as the ones in this video for example are setup stable and for high RPM so these guy's squeezing thousands of HP out of a small block can make them breath upstairs and live doing it. Conversely this same lobe may give up some power to a faster design in a lower RPM application.

[@totensiebush]

that's really impressive running a hydraulic roller all the way to 10k with no float.

[@imacrazy6872]

Not many tuners can dial them in to almost zero float though. Can't entrust just anyone on a potential 10k setup.

[@petermuller161]

I love how the spintron parses out all the sounds of the valve train. Valves make a ton of noise!

[@chadkent1241]

John Mihovetz has done this for the 4.6 4V over a decade ago making 3,000 hp @ 10,000 rpm on oem block and heads timing components and factory Kellogg crank.

[@briantooleyracing3554]

There's a lot of difference between the RPM potential of an overhead cam engine and an engine that has lifters, long pushrods, and rockers. F1 turned 20,000 RPM with overhead cam engines 20 years ago.

[@corystansbury]

​@@briantooleyracing3554 I think Honda was at something like 22,000 RPM in the 1960s with springs. As you said-- apples and hand grenades

[@jcnpresser]

Even if they were picking lobes from a catalog, they’re picking the right ones, lol. There’s alot going on with a cam lobe believe or not. That is pretty impressive, especially hydraulic roller.

[@briantooleyracing3554]

Those lobes were designed in house at BTR.

[@jcnpresser]

@@briantooleyracing3554 that was supposed to be a reply to the comment some one said about y’all picking lobes. Oh I believe y’all are making your own stuff. Why else would you have a spintron? Y’all rock 🤘

[@briantooleyracing3554]

@@jcnpresser we haven't picked lobes from a catalog for many years! 😁

[@stewartlindbeck9540]

Holy RPM’s Batman, nice work gents!!! BTW, I think the industry standard is using a standard screwdriver instead of a Phillips when dragging it across a computer screen for demonstration purposes…

[@patrickwendling6759]

Awesome 👌🏻.. thank you so very much.. I am going to build a LS 6.0 and now I know where to get my performance needs 💪🏽💪🏽

[@wilcoxblues27]

I love that all the boxes in their spintron cell are from COMP and Lunati.... Wonder where they developed those lobes from

[@briantooleyracing3554]

There are plenty of other manufacturers camshafts there, too. Competitive testing is exactly that. How good are our competitors' lobes, how much loft, how much closing bounce they have, etc. Our lobe designs are better than what we used to purchase from Comp Cams. I will say that among all of the competitors hydraulic roller cams we tested, Cam Motion was the best of them.

[@wilcoxblues27]

@@briantooleyracing3554 I have also tested both, I respectfully disagree

[@briantooleyracing3554]

@Jamison Wilcox send me your Spintron data, and I'll share ours.

[@Ws6Ms]

​@@wilcoxblues27LMAO really dude?

[@wilcoxblues27]

@@Ws6Ms I mean yeah haha I used to work in the industry, plus COMP had 10,000 RPM combos 5-10 years ago. And did Project Spinal Tap 5+ years ago that went to over 11,000. Anyone can make a lobe that'll spin that fast, but that doesn't mean it's a good lobe.

[@shredfest30]

Nice work everyone.. Now, set that up at 9700, close the door and come back to it in the morning and see how everything held up..!

[@andrewevans7181]

Just got my block from shop yesterday so I’ll be throwing this in

[@denniss5512]

Richard Holender really like BTR stuff and that says a lot.

[@jeffreysmith7924]

You should have a link to your website on your videos.

[@racingdatasystems3708]

How does the actual combustion process effect the opening and closing? What about 200deg head temp?

[@thomasjohnson1142]

Would the dual springs cause more bounce and beehive springs be more forgiving on opening and closing deflection? I though I seen dual springs where installed . But still seriously amazing ! But I really want to know with a lighter beehive spring would there be less bounce I hope this question is answered. God Bless.

[@evcass69]

I'd like to know also.

[@briantooleyracing3554]

The total mass of the valve/spring/retainer is key. When you have heavy valves of 110-120 grams, our conical springs can show better results. However, with the light titanium LT4 intake valves, our dual springs were actually better. But yes, as you reduce seat pressure, you reduce opening deflection.

[@thomasjohnson1142]

@@briantooleyracing3554 thank you and is that usually the case with the lighter valves? I know that’s a hard question because there are so many different variables. But regardless thank you for answering God Bless.

[@briantooleyracing3554]

@@thomasjohnson1142 yes, the lower the mass, the less deflection there is

[@thomasjohnson1142]

@@briantooleyracing3554 well next question is what’s the part number on the camshaft lol so I can order one.

[@brandonbible1]

Sounds like your playing an musical instrument!

[@adamtravis9933]

Nick has made us some Awesome custom Cam specs.

[@joeyjojojr.shabadoo915]

I am now in search of someone named *James Medium* thanks to James Short of BTR and James Tall (aka Jackstand Jimmy) of the Cleetus McFarland crew........

[@Sleeperdude]

Man that thing sounds crazy

[@WildEngineering]

okay i have a 2018 camaro ss with the LT1 and I want a high rpm hi hp NA build and i think you guys can provide that... WOWW

[@drivinwithdrew7676]

Really cool info! Wonder what the NA power difference would be with this cam vs a similar solid roller? And how do yall know it will stay stable once it has 40 lbs of boost and combustion pressure? Just track testing I assume?

[@briantooleyracing3554]

Boost on the intake side actually has little effect on dynamics. If the engine is supercharged, there are no effects on the exhaust side, other than opening against exhaust pressure. A turbo combination with excessive back pressure could increase closing exhaust bounce, in my opinion.

[@drivinwithdrew7676]

@@briantooleyracing3554 thanks!

[@HotRodDave]

That is really interesting. Make me a hydraulic roller cam for my SBC build

[@colejohnson3705]

Are these zero lash hydraulic rollers? Who makes the lifters? Does the extra weight of the hydraulic roller require a specific type of valve spring/ springs and open/ closed seat pressures? A hydraulic roller turning 10k is just amazing!

[@briantooleyracing3554]

Not zero lash, production Johnson lifters, we used our standard production springs, but we did test multiple installed heights to arrive at what pressures worked best. The magic is in the lobe design, which was developed in house at BTR.

[@JeremyinCars]

I bought a BTR 225 cam for my LT1 with conical valve springs. Trunions, push rods, LS7 lifters, and DOD delete was done as well. What is the RPM limit of this setup?

[@joeyjojojr.shabadoo915]

I completely forgot to ask. Are you guys running the VVT Cam Pulley on this test also ? Which rockers and what size pushrods ?

[@norbialaniz8442]

Any solid roller low lash programs ?

[@1kGarandGuy]

maybe i missed it, but what kind of spring pressure are you using at this rpm on the spintron and or on an engine for this ?

[@briantooleyracing3554]

Less than 180 lbs on the seat. The Spintron trace actually got worse with more pressure, so more pressure isn't necessarily better.

[@1kGarandGuy]

@@briantooleyracing3554 but did it get worse because of the pressure or because the spin tron isn't meant to have that kinda pressure ? this stuff Absolutely fascinates me, i actually own Granger Performance and i have an account with yall and use a ton of your products and they NEVER disappoint. id love to come up one day and watch this thing in action. when i went to sam-tech jud talked alittle bit about how amazing the machine is but didnt get in depth with it.

[@briantooleyracing3554]

@ZL1_special the Spintron will handle springs with over 1000 lbs of pressure. As you increase seat pressure you also increase opening deflection, so it's a balancing act.

[@davidburke6785]

Are there lobes like this available for the LS motors?

[@sniperpronerfmods9811]

Yes

[@lindseychaney3987]

Sounds like an air compressor!!!

[@evcass69]

C'mon, Maverick, you can push it past 10K 😊 what are your thoughts on ~50psi of oil pressure at 10K?

[@briantooleyracing3554]

In a running engine, 50 psi might not be enough to support a crankshaft with rods and pistons. In our Spintron engine with a straight shaft that replaces the crankshaft, 50 psi is sufficient.

[@sniperpronerfmods9811]

​@@briantooleyracing3554 you guys own and have your own spintron? Thats really cool!

[@jeffreyhavlik3562]

@@briantooleyracing3554 Do you have some go-to numbers on LT4 oil pressure? The computer controlled oil pump keeps the oil pressure around 40-45psi under full load, is there a point where you must change the oil pump and or tune, to exceed that factory oil pressure? Right now I am using your BTR stage 3 cam at 1100whp and very pleased with it. But the oil pressure on these LTs is much different from what I am used to seeing on a LS or classic SBC.

[@sniperpronerfmods9811]

@@jeffreyhavlik3562 110psi is good

[@modifiedz0695]

How much preload are you running on those lifters? How much open pressure?

[@ardennielsen3761]

lath with a angle finder that has a end mill on it... why buy a new cam, hard face weld and re-cut the old one.

[@bluegizmo1983]

But, to get it to handle that high of RPM your just chopping off the lobe, so it's not going to have anywhere near as much lift or duration as competitor camshafts, right?

[@fox-body]

I’d like to be 2 rooms away from that. 🤣

[@danejones2851]

I understand the purpose of a spintron but doesn’t the piston movement and pressure acting on the valves as the engine cycles affect the valve train?

[@briantooleyracing3554]

Piston movement doesn't have much effect, but residual cylinder pressure when the exhaust valve attempts to open does. That's where the biggest difference would be between the Spintron and a running engine.

[@danejones2851]

@@briantooleyracing3554 great info! Have you found that it is negligible? Or have you included an acceptable tolerance within the lobe design to accommodate for this missing piece?

[@briantooleyracing3554]

@Dane Jones in the exhaust stability testing that we have performed on the engine dyno, we have yet to find any additional power.

[@mohanperformance.enginerd.1308]

I bet if you made the lobe perfectly round you could get it to 15,000 rpm. 😎 All these years I have been fooling my self designing my cams with a 10 dollar calculator, a pen and 25 cents worth of graph paper. I think the spintron is a pretty cool toy. But it doesn't make horsepower nor does it simulate a running engine. So admittedly I am being a little sarcastic. I truely believe the machine is good and has a purpose. But I don't believe it tells the whole picture. We still cant see the dark matter part of things with cylinder pressures and heat acting on valve heads. Temp distorted valves and seats and combustion harmonics etc. So I dunno? I am unsure how this applies in a tangable way? But again. Pretty cool machine.

[@Baard2000]

Thats the next step. Toyota F1 had in the end a so called vector dyno. It could change rpms about 240.000 rpm or per second. That could mimick the F1 car driving over the curbstones and induce the same vibrations to complete drivetrain and so the valve train. They found out in the years before switching to a vector dyno that a water brake or electronic brake would show power gains but at the track the car would go slower or even break down. Those dynos are letting the engine run smoothly but on the track it doesnt. ....

[@ejohnson3837]

It is just a Tool, like some people.

[@mohanperformance.enginerd.1308]

@@Baard2000 awesome read. Thank you!

[@bigmuz_pilot]

I'd watch Logan explain paint drying, what a weapon he is!

[@scotthultin7769]

They're designing lobes so we can pick them out of a catalog I think you said it wrong🎉😅😊

[@merylpelosi8485]

Now I see why the Dyno guys use your cams as a standard to compare other cams to.

[@jheibeck6059]

Awesome didn't know you where doing content for btr clapt out

[@realdeathpony]

Make some sbc tbi cams!

[@Anarchy-Is-Liberty]

Do they make cams for BBC's?

[@charliemorris4310]

There sure are a lot of competitors boxes I see, is it your lobes or copies of other companies? It looks like your r&d is coming from other places to me.

[@briantooleyracing3554]

Competitive testing is exactly that. How good are our competitors lobes, how much loft, how much closing bounce do they have, etc. Our lobe designs are far better than any cam manufacturer we have tested. It's impossible to be better by copying another manufacturer. Not to mention how "dirty" the design would be by trying to reverse engineer a lobe ground on a cam.

[@charliemorris4310]

@@briantooleyracing3554 how precise does that adcole machine in your video measure? If your equipment is top of the line it's not hard at all to make a copy that's not a "dirty" reverse engineered design. Just curious to how much of the final lobe design was yours vs the competition.

[@briantooleyracing3554]

@Charlie Morris an Adcole requires special and fairly expensive software in order to reverse engineer or "read" a camshaft, which we do not have. We can only load our lobe designs into the Adcole and compare that data to what it reads when it measures the cam.

[@briantooleyracing3554]

@Charlie Morris another thing to note is that most all of our competitors design the acceleration curve at the lobe/lifter. We design the acceleration curve at the valve, taking the large change in rocker ratio of the stock rockers into consideration, which is critical for the stability that we achieve. Designing the acceleration curve at the valve is also more complicated. While I can appreciate your skeptical mindset, consider that we have achieved what we have by simply out working our competition. A little God's grace blessing us with crazy ideas to change the acceleration curve shape, and then test, has gone a long way as well.

[@charliemorris4310]

@@briantooleyracing3554Which competitors measure the accel curve at the camshaft, if you don't mind me asking? And how/why do they measure it there? I've seen a few spintrons run before and most people are pointing the laser at the bottom of the valves like you are, even putting strain gauges on springs and pushrods.

[@siclt1]

So are you spinning the crank to spin the cam or just the cam itself?

[@briantooleyracing3554]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/bYCTfJyHobpmha8

[@siclt1]

@@briantooleyracing3554 awesome information thank you

[@kellybrown1860]

Good Stuff Guys

[@rickyfulks889]

Mustve been a Texas Speed cam

[@ben7020]

What happens with 25psi pushing the inlet valve open? It might be a very different result. 🍻

[@briantooleyracing3554]

25 psi will not open a valve. People think that boost might try to hold a valve open as it's closing, and I used to think the same thing. But what's actually important is the DIFFERENTIAL pressure across the valve as it's closing. And in a boosted engine at high RPM, that differential pressure is just a few psi. We have taken naturally aspirated valve trains and added a supercharger, and the engine almost seemed happier with RPM supercharged than it did NA.

[@briantooleyracing3554]

Which then made we wonder if the boost on the back side of the intake valve was actually helping open it and therefore reducing deflection... 🤔🤔

[@ben7020]

@@briantooleyracing3554oh right, yeah your explanation makes sence ! Thanks for the insight.

[@parzavull2136]

Exactly what cam is this?

[@norbialaniz8442]

And are you only tailoring for ls lt / no ford or mopar ?

[@briantooleyracing3554]

We will be developing Gen 3 Hemi lobes soon, and they will definitely be a different design due to their rocker ratio.

[@BTB31]

so is the cam spinning 10,000 rpm or 5000 rpm

[@briantooleyracing3554]

The engine is spinning 10,000 RPM, and camshafts always turn half the speed of the crankshaft.

[@kingsupra5023]

Hello, I am from Saudi Arabia do you ship to Saudi? If u do not Is there anyway to ship Thanks,

[@mrmete]

So will you actually build a cam like this that'll last

[@briantooleyracing3554]

That’s exactly what we’re doing! 👍

[@jessemcdougall-douglass162]

Was the original BTR Stage 2 cam for the LS7 Sprintron tested?

[@timothypremo6954]

Do I hear Logan?

[@Antonio-ky8gz]

Johnson lifters?

[@SyTySpeedShop]

Very impressive

[@johnhickman106]

I threw a rod just listening.

[@alltherpm]

Can u get cams 4 sbf Ford running 8000

[@alltherpm]

I'm running 1999/2000 technology still I'm sure it's come light years

[@georgef1176]

BTR is the only cams to buy. Obviously other companies don’t do this important testing. Why would you buy anything else.

[@georgef1176]

Who’s cam is the bad one? Someone should sneak on the comments from btr.

[@kingsupra5023]

Hello Hello, Do u have SILVERADO &SIERRA 1 7 /8"LONGTUBE HEADERS ‪2007-2013‬ from Speed Engineer and now it Is out of stock in the website Thanks a lot

[@mann5353]

impressive

[@TheProchargedmopar]

👍💪

[@jeremystory6981]

Big oil pan 😮

[@davidciesielski8251]

WOW

[@HioSSilver1999]

Ok....i used to make fun of you guys. It just seemed like everything you did was pumpkin spice like. But you guys seem on your game these days.

[@briantooleyracing3554]

We've definitely stepped up our game! At the same point in time some of our competitors are stumbling.

[@HioSSilver1999]

@@briantooleyracing3554 keep up the good work!

[@gtorjoepontiac5136]

Full reciprocating assembly or just a cam and valve train?

[@briantooleyracing3554]

Check out this video for a good explanation of how a Spintron works. kzbin.info/www/bejne/bYCTfJyHobpmha8

[@alross18058]

i assume thats a solid roller?

[@jesselee128able]

ST2126LSR is a hydraulic roller

[@briantooleyracing3554]

Hydraulic! 👍👍👍

[@alross18058]

@@briantooleyracing3554 thats really impressive. we looked at a wegner 427 spec motor for our northeast dirt modified which had a hydraulic cam and the only wanted to turn them 7,200. we usually turn our solid rollers 358's 8,400