Will Seattle's Streetcars Ever Connect?

Seattle has a pair of modern streetcars, and for some reason they've never linked them together. Instead, they serve two different goals in two different parts of the city. So why did they end up this way, and could they ever be unified as one system?
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Classy Whale - at-least-weekly misadventures with trains and transit!

[@DouglasDC10.30]

Here in Australia we call streetcars and light rail “trams”, because they’re literally the same thing.

[@AverytheCubanAmerican]

The First Hill streetcar having a special wrap for the Asian community that honors the three ethnic neighborhoods with three different flowers is a nice touch! Love that the Turkish Airlines wrap of the First Hill streetcar promotes Cappadocia! Cappadocia is such a cool place, not only are they famous for their hot-air balloons, but the iconic fairy chimney terrain and subterranean cities are incredible! Cappadocia's rock formations emerged due to a geological process that began millions of years ago. Ancient volcanic eruptions blanketed the region in thick ash, which later solidified into a soft rock called ‘tuff’. When the natural forces of wind and water (erosion) did their work, only the harder elements were left behind to form the ‘fairy chimneys’ that can be seen today. It is believed that the underground cities of Cappadocia were initially built during the eighth and seventh centuries BCE by the Phrygians, who carved their living spaces into the region’s soft volcanic rock. It was also human ingenuity that has given Cappadocia its magical aesthetic. During the Roman period, persecuted Christians fled to Cappadocia, and soon came to the realization that tuff was a useful, malleable material. The inhabitants set about building a network of handmade caves, living quarters, churches, stables, and storehouses, all dug into the soft rock. Underground cities also had to be built due to the possibility of hostile forces discovering their refuge. Almost 10-storeys deep and connected by narrow passages, these subterranean cities could hide as many as 20,000 people (like Derinkuyu) at a time! Ventilation shafts were disguised as wells, while large rolling stone doors were put in place to protect entrances. In contrast to the underground cities are rock castles or castle mountains, such as Uçhisar and Ortahisar. These are 60-to-90-metre-high rock outcrops that are crisscrossed by a tangle of passageways and rooms. The castles also served as refuges from danger and could be sealed with door-stones similar to those in the underground cities. They could accommodate around 1,000 people. In addition, collections of residences and other rooms are carved into cliff faces. The largest of these is Zelve and the best-known is Göreme, but whole cities of these cliff buildings can also be seen at Soğanlı valley, Gülşehir, and Güzelyurt.

[@vgalis]

As a person who lives in SLU without a car, I still never ride the nearby line. It's just too short to be useful. To get to the nearest stop, I'd have to walk 4-5 blocks, then wait for a streetcar to arrive. By the time that happens, I could have just walked directly to either end of the line. Meanwhile, the buses that run along Fairview and Westlake were full any time I looked at them at rush hour since they're the transit that actually brings people to/from Amazon's buildings going North.

[@CyanideCarrot]

In the wake of the CCC being cancelled, some of us in the Seattle transit community have been toying with the idea of extending the First Hill line down to the waterfront and then Seattle Center, possibly even forming into a loop. The SLU line couldn't be extended to it though because of steep hills around Pike Place, so it would have to be extended in some other way, whether that's down 1st Ave to SODO or 5th Ave to the International District. The two lines could also be extended to connect in Eastlake, but business groups got a FHS extension to Roy St cancelled a while back and unsuccessfully tried to cancel the RapidRide J Line through Eastlake. Another factor to consider is that the whole downtown is incredibly steep, so running something to 1st Ave or the waterfront where no transit currently exists is a matter of accessibility. Lots of ideas being thrown around, possibly none of them ever being built, but people like the First Hill line so something could happen

[@WildWuff]

I have been on both of the streetcars when waiting for the 2 Line opening. And the thing about the rider ship gap between the two was confirmed with my one ride of the First Hill having more people on than South Lake Union had, especially during a Saturday in the early morning.

[@SeattleTrain]

Unfortunately might not in the near future. There have been proposals, but all have failed. It seems like the best chance now is when there are new people on the st board but that woud take upwards of 20 years to plan and build. Especially since Seattle transit expansions are notorious for being delayed

[@BirbarianHomeGuard]

No. Paul Allen died - he was the driving force behind the Seattle Streetcar.

[@BirbarianHomeGuard]

Sad that hwy 99 got a tunnel through downtown. that money should have gone to an Alaskan way waterfront streetcar.

[@stickynorth]

@@BirbarianHomeGuard Or both in a more balanced approach to transportation funding...

[@AverytheCubanAmerican]

Love all the trolleybuses you showed in the background! It's great when places like Philly, Dayton, San Francisco, many Russian cities, Pyongyang, Vancouver, and Seattle have trolleybuses! The first trolleybus to operate on Seattle's streets was in 1937. It was brought to the city for a demonstration to gain public support for a plan to replace the debt-ridden streetcar and cable car system with a "trackless trolley" system. While a successful demonstration, Seattle voters rejected it in March 1937. In 1939, Seattle received a federal loan that allowed the city to retire the debts from the streetcar and cable car system. Management of the system was turned over to an independent commission, renamed the STS or Seattle Transit System. The commission immediately began construction on overhead wire and ordered many trolleybuses, with the first in revenue service in April 1940. The Downtown Seattle Transit Tunnel used to have special dual-mode trolleybuses, but as the tunnel was futureproofed for light-rail, the overhead wire for them was replaced for the light-rail, and so hybrid electric buses were used in the tunnel instead. When the light-rail opened in 2009, the tunnel had shared bus and light-rail operations until March 2019 when tunnel bus service finally ceased after Convention Place station was closed in 2018 for expansion of the Washington State Convention Center.

[@thesledgehammerblog]

A lot of the problem with the South Lake Union streetcar is that SLU is the type of neighborhood that there’s basically no reason to visit if you don’t work there, and there’s basically no reason to stay there after work. I worked at Amazon in SLU for about a year in 2012, and the whole entire neighborhood felt fake and contrived, nothing but offices and a few spaces for overpriced hipster bars that ultimately saw (and likely still see) very high turnover. The old pre-Amazon neighborhood was nothing to write home about, but basically everything that existed there has been gentrified into oblivion. The Amazon employees have their own shuttles to and from the major transit hubs so there’s basically no need for them to use the streetcar (which the ridership numbers seem to reflect.) on the couple of occasions when I used the streetcar I found it to be basically no faster than riding a bus along the same road, and probably no faster than walking if it was rush hour. Westlake Center, as nondescript as it may be, may have the unique distinction of being one of the few places in the world to be home to not one, but two different gadgetbahns.

[@pauld2810]

Well, I'm guessing that the difference between the two riderships is that the SLU Streetcar serves a large tech worker population, which, since the pandemic, has largely switched to teleworking, while the First Hill Streetcar serves a large hospital worker population - Swedish, Harborview, Providence, and PolyClinic - which doesn't telecommute.

[@thesledgehammerblog]

Amazon has taken a hard line in demanding that their employees return to offices compared to a lot of other companies, so the workers should (theoretically) be there. Amazon has a significant network of their own private shuttle buses though, which largely makes it unnecessary for their workers to use the streetcar. Meta and Google (which also have significant presence in the area now) have an even larger network, including their own commuter buses.

[@CyanideCarrot]

The Waterfront line was supposed to come back after the viaduct came down, but obviously it didnt. So the idea that the SLU line won't survive Ballard Link is sadly a real possibility

[@brunhildevalkyrie]

Most modern streetcars in the usa, including those two are neoliberal gentrification projects, where actually transporting people is a complete afterthought

[@dwhonan]

2:27 the white livery with the flowers on car 402 has been around since before the FHS line opened. I distinctly remember getting crapped on by a crow while waiting to take a photo of that vehicle passing Union Station during pre-revenue testing in November 2015.

[@jacktattersall9457]

The following is a message from Sydney: Seattle should copy George Street and use a pedestrian transit mall to connect the two streetcar lines with those important downtown destinations you mentioned. Similar to Sydney, emergency vehicles would be allowed, giving quicker emergency response times without the noise of sirens, along with delivery vehicles if needed at select points to access selected garages or loading bays only accessible off the pedestrianized street.

[@stickynorth]

It amazes me that making them one coherent line was considered as an afterthought and not like step 1 in a project to revive a larger network of streetcar lines around Seattle. Even Detroit has a downtown circulator and a battery operated tram. Too bad in that case though they AREN'T one in the same... Just two separate networks that do connect albeit awkwardly...

[@TSMGL_Youtube]

The whole deal with the first hill line being hybrid to some extent is quite intriguing, from an operation standpoint. Also 8:17 NCTM cameo 👀👀

[@blackpanda7298]

I live in downtown Toronto, I have 4 24hr streetcar routes 501, 504, 505, 506, they’re less than 500 meters way from my house. We also have a bus running north south between all 3 streetcar routes. Nights and early mornings are the best no traffic so they run fast. If Seattle linked the 2 they have more people would ride.

[@manzell]

It seems pretty obvious why they'll never connect - what rides would the connection serve? Streetcar is too slow for the longer trips the connection would enable. My "better" pet project is extending South Lake Union Tram up Eastlake to UW/U-District Light Rail stop.

[@djpetesake]

Great vid! I'm confused by the Palm Desert ad wrap on a train in Washington...

[@southpuddle]

Firstly, I don’t take the street car most of the time because it could take 15 minutes for a car to come by, and I could have walked to my destination by then. Second off, not at least extending the First Hill line down the new waterfront was a complete miss.

[@DanTheCaptain]

I’m thankful I got to ride both lines on my first and only visit to Seattle. It’s a great little network and it would be a serious shame if the citizens of Seattle give this up. Connecting the two lines seems like a no brainer and should be at the forefront of projects for the city.

[@electro_sykes]

there were plans, then the downtown bus tunnel and later the light rail line linked the two areas, removing the need for both streetcars to be physically connected/combined into one system

[@amfm889]

3:56 Whoa! Good comment about the shelter maintenance! Nice video summary about these two lines- and props for the overhead street views. The SLU line is obviously a vanity project, and if it went away no one would miss it. And, yes, it does get delayed in traffic: see Westlake Ave. and Denny Way, northbound, in front of Whole Foods during the evening rush, as the streetcar gets blocked by vehicles headed uphill on Denny. Regarding connecting the two: you wouldn't ride it to get from Capitol Hill to SLU or even downtown, as the routing is too circuitous, and vice versa. The only real value would be from Pike Place to Pioneer Square (hello, tourists!), and a rubber-tired trolley could do that for a fraction of the cost. Finally, it's a crime that Seattle didn't have the political courage to insist that the state DOT include a streetcar connection when the "Little Dig", aka the Alaskan Way viaduct removal-and-tunnel project was being designed. Now that I think about it, they should extend the First Hill line from its terminus at Pioneer Square down to the waterfront instead of up First Ave. How about it, SDOT?

[@teecefamilykent]

Brilliant video, shame it's not one unified system.

[@realquadmoo]

Sound Transit will be closing the entire South Lake Union Streetcar for Ballard Link Extension Construction around Denny for EIGHT years. This is a most concerning amount of time, however, we may rest assured that per the already approved Sound Transit project guideline, it *MUST* come back after construction.

[@Saint2558]

I just want this to be completed 😮‍💨

[@Bleach1443]

Sadly I don’t expect they will. I know many of my fellow transit advocates in the city don’t the street care in general. And I get it it’s slow. But we get a lot of tourists who I’ve noticed really like the SLU line. The First Hill Line while slow its for sure useful and was created to supplement the inability to make a Light rail station in First Hill. Anyway I think if anything has to happen the SLU Line could be sacrificed. The First HIll Line needs to stay. The areas it covers are far more dense then SLU. A lot of the building near the SLU line are just office spaces. The First Hill line has lots of density and apartments around it and the College and the medical centers. It should get more improvements and maybe try to push again for it to go a bit more up Broadway at least to E Roy Street.

[@markstocker5121]

You can connect to both via the Link Light Rail.

[@hobog]

Hope you saw the Center for Wooden Boats at South Lake Union!

[@ClassyWhale]

I missed it! There's always next time...

[@Thesecret101-te1lm]

Admittedly I don't know much about the light rail in Seattle in particular, but it would be great if people in North America would stop using the expressions "light rail" and "street cars" and just use the word tram. That way it would be more obvious that the same vehicles can be used both on fast grade separated dedicated right of ways and also street running, either with dedicated lanes or even in mixed traffic. Ignoring that I don't know that the light rail infrastructure looks like (except the pictures on Wikipedia...), the street car lines could connect to the light rail at Westlake, Capitol Hill and Intl Dist/Chinatown and/or Pioneer Square. That way you could for example have a service running South Lake Union - Pioneer Square, a service running Uni of Washington - Stadium via the street car line, and whatnot. I get that the light rail uses longer trains, but as long as the infrastructure isn't at capacity it's possible to mix shorter and longer trains. Also the 750/1500V voltage difference isn't a big problem. For example 10 of the class A32 trams used in Stockholm, Sweden, spent their initial life running on a dutch railway with 1500V DC electrification, and was later sold to Stockholm and at that time the additional equipment for 1500V DC was removed as Stockholm uses classic 750V DC tram electrification. (As a side track, in Germany there are trams that can run both on 750V DC and 16kV AC, and there are also trams that can run on 750V DC and diesel, used for various tram-train lines). Not sure about the platform height though but the light rail trains seem to have a relatively low platform. Btw, re cleaning the stops: You kind of have to observe a cycle between cleaning to tell if it's really the transit agency doing a bad work at keeping the stops clean, or if it's just some people "throwing eggs" at the stops. (I wouldn't want to pay the cost of replacing an LCD screen with a minor defect as long as it doesn't seriously impair readability. Those will fail every now and then and not replacing it immediately mostly lowers the maintenance cost. Also it seems like a better investment to have multiple screens, visible from different parts of the stop/shelter. Don't know about Seattle in particular but in general this is a good idea as it makes it easier to avoid other passengers that behave annoyingly, has a repelling smell or whatnot).

[@AriesM00n]

In addition to not connecting enough neighborhoods, the Seattle streetcars are way too slow. A typical able-bodied person can out-walk them. The slowness increases commute times for riders and holds up traffic for others. On top of that, the lack of seating on the streetcars make them not a great option for people who are not able-bodied. Sure, if you have a wheelchair, you bring your own chair that can strap in, but many people who are able to stand, can't stand for long periods or struggle to balance while in motion. I like the idea of the streetcar, but in terms of the ones we have, the bus lines are way more practical.

[@randomtransitadventures]

YAY

[@randomtransitadventures]

“bike ways” 😃

[@randomtransitadventures]

wait i predicted what the video said what

[@randomtransitadventures]

WHAT

[@repulser93]

Dear Jeff Bezos, You want to regain some goodwill towards Amazon? Put that money towards fully connecting the streetcar lines. You're one of the wealthiest men on the planet - however much it'd cost to build that Cultural Connection, you'd probably make it all back by the end of the month, at LATEST.

[@markbrinton6815]

fixed rail transit is a dumb idea.

[@ClassyWhale]

Why

[@spydula1]

If it's such a dumb idea, why does most of the developed world prefer and enjoy fixed rail transit?