Will we ever recover from our COVID insanity? Q&A with Jon Ronson

If we all went a little nuts during the COVID-19 lockdowns, it's absolutely true that some of us-including many of our country's leaders and people in the media-went absolutely batshit crazy, often with disastrous results.
Exactly why that happened is the subject of author Jon Ronson's latest season of Things Fell Apart, a podcast that explores the deep origins of today's culture wars in controversies, panics, and delusions from decades ago.
reason.com/video
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Reason's Nick Gillespie talked with Ronson about why he believes the creation of a fake medical condition called "excited delirium" in 1988 ultimately led to the death of George Floyd in 2020, how law enforcement fixations on white supremacy warped the investigation into a plot to kidnap Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer, and how the director of the massively influential Plandemic documentaries was actually rewriting the script of Star Wars.
Ronson is best known as the author of The Men Who Stare at Goats, an account of a U.S. Army unit that tried to perfect paranormal powers like walking through walls, and So You've Been Publicly Shamed, which helped define cancel culture just as it was becoming widespread via social media.

[@ferengi2022]

Jon Ronson was one of the first to sound the alarm for the arrival of cancel culture and the terrible implications it could have. Also snuck into Bohemian Grove with Alex Jones. What a legend.

[@doubledecker1094]

I disagree with him about some things but he gives both sides a fair hearing and shows that the truth is often somewhere in the middle

[@tuckerbugeater]

So the world is complex and chaotic.@@doubledecker1094

[@boogiedahomey]

He didn't sneak in. He walked In through the front entrance. Alex Jones pretended to sneak in as part of his schtick.

[@ellenmeilee]

Jon Ronson … national treasure. His work leaves me gobsmacked and most importantly, curious and determined to be open minded.

[@doubledecker1094]

100% national treasure

[@theStacyJames]

"Insanity" being the operative word

[@IChooseAHandle]

47:01 We need more of this character in movies. Chronically anxious, can't handle a phone call, or talking in a work meeting... then real shit goes down and they become the hero.

[@trunk081]

Quite a disparity between the name of this channel and the comments section.

[@mrtambourineman6107]

Online comments are always mental

[@VeniVidiVid]

Words like trauma, racist, (sexual) assault, and harm have been allowed to expand in current usage to cover simpler interactions they were not originally intended to describe. The motivation appears to be to controlling conversation by inflating the language to ever more emotionally charged terms. And like most other inflated measurements (trophies, pinball scores, toady compliments, Federal Reserve Notes), the further they get from describing the underlying reality, the less valuable they become.

[@futures2247]

the expansion of those words is very useful to the therapy industry - the more normal human variation pathologised and medicalised the better for business.

[@MollyOKami]

I've seen a lot of the sanity return to places I thought were lost. I had my annual physical, yesterday, and there were very few masks. They had a sign _requesting_ those with respiratory issues to _please_ wear a mask, & they were still providing them at the front desk, but they weren't mandatory & the few people choosing to wear them where staring at any of us not wearing them with daggers in their eyes, so, there's SOMETHING (especially since we're still in cold & flu season). Also, my doctor & the nurse who ran the preliminary checks _mentioned_ the Jab, but still didn't push it or the flu shot. Also, I haven't seen masks much anywhere, let alone any mentions of any mandates. Even when I still worked at the kennel during the outbreak of the new canine influenza and various colds, masks were available but not required. Even our customers didn't give us grief about it.

[@sirclarkmarz]

I have to say that I appreciate that people still choose to wear a mask . It's a strong indicator of their mental health and a warning to stay away from them because they're crazy .

[@iampdv]

The are still mandated at least at some hospitals in Europe... Saying as someone who had recently spent 7 hours in an emergency room with poor ventilation and full of sick people. They insisted that I should wear the same face nappy for all that time.

[@riahynanevamynd7698]

​@@sirclarkmarz😄😅😄

[@Slavolko]

@@sirclarkmarz That's true. As much as it hurts when you find out it's people you're friendly with, it does help to know to at least be cautious.

[@TheColdrush22]

It's really getting there if the polarized sides would stop just wanting to throw meat to their side.

[@ChildofGod98765]

I was fired from my job at Forsyth hospital for declining the vaccine. I’ve been struggling since. I declined because I suffer from heart disease and lupus. I’m now waitressing and I’m grateful to be working but I’m not making nearly what I use to make. I’m a single mom with two children on the spectrum. I’m constantly faced with financial hardships and can barely support my children. I’m overwhelmed at times. But I know I made the right decision. I’m tired of struggling. Struggling to buy groceries. Struggling to pay rent. It hasn’t been easy. Yet God will see me through faith over fear. ❤

[@riahynanevamynd7698]

Bless you & your children & may God grant you good fortune Amen ☀️❤️☀️

[@woodchuck003]

Yes but if we don't just listen the MSN lies then the Twitter trolls may lie .

[@leonorabarany5061]

Wow, you are a warrior! Stay strong , you made the right choice ❤ Alternative medicine is on the rise, I hope you find your place in this field soon 😊

[@frankcooke1692]

There are medical exemptions for people who are unable to get vaccinated, they wouldn't have been able to sack you if that exemption was granted. The covid vaccine is not contra-indicated for people with lupus - it's actually recommended, the same applies for (most) heart conditions. Is there a little bit more to the story?

[@woodchuck003]

@@frankcooke1692 there were lots of companies that weren't respecting the medical exemptions. Also if you don't want to take something you shouldn't need to go ask permission to not take something.

Especially since they're planning to do it again in May of this year, no, I expect we won't.

[@jaycarver4886]

There's certain to be something happening this year...a new pandemic and lockdown is not out of the question. This is election year (interference anyone?) and I figure that the crazies will orchestrate something. WEF met at Davos last week and those Elites (our masters) Do Not want to take a chance on Trump getting back in office.

[@smoothALOE]

This is so bizarre. How did I never hear about this Miami story before?

[@smoothALOE]

@@HarryF-tz5fo yeah, I guess not. I’m glad someone decided to tell the story. It’s fascinating.

[@shaminoranger8588]

Thank you for spreading a hopeful message at the end. It's very easy to get into a rage feedback loop, not so easy to be an emotional shock absorber and calm things down.

[@mrtambourineman6107]

Ive just listened to series 2 , and its absolutely excellently done ✔️ 👏 👌

[@paints_his_shirt_red]

Deliriously Excited!

[@yoshiobayashicomedy]

The GOAT!!!

[@doetodeer]

“Here is some reason from someone who believes in gender identity-or is at least too much of a coward to say he doesn’t” Hard pass.

[@rjc_2001]

We're not going to fully recover from hysteria while any mention of the vid triggers a propaganda response like the banner seen on this KZbin video.

[@shaminoranger8588]

True, and it's telling me to go and get information from one of the biggest sources of misinformation there was during the pandemic, my government's health department. No lessons have been learned.

[@iampdv]

Schwab is German not Swiss

[@thompson1558]

I have anxiety, and it was so much better during the pandemic. Thank you for noting that. I thought I was alone

[@SChiasson3]

Thanks!

[@shallfrisch1]

I find the idea that excited delirium not existing as a broad category befuddling. I always understood it to not be a specific etiology rather a collection of symptoms, a syndrome if you will.

[@TheWhitehiker]

The beginning is a bit slow, or off-point, but hang in there-- it gets worse!. Waiting for the title about the pandemic!

[@FourthRoot]

The problem isn't describing excited and delirious people as having excited delirium. The problem is thinking of excited delirium as a simple and specific medical condition.

[@rayF4rio]

Is this the Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon??

[@amagilly]

I never once put a mask on during those years.

[@sirclarkmarz]

A friend of mine got all the COVID shots and all the boosters he had a stroke and now he has type 2 diabetes . He was in great shape exercise all the time never smoked or drank a day in his life . I never got any of the shots I'm overweight I drink too much I smoke weed and eat poorly and if I had COVID I didn't know it , just saying.

[@Slavolko]

I also didn't notice the coof, if I ever got it. I usually get sick once a year when the cold season arrives, but nothing special happened during that time.

[@graphikeye]

Well it's great we don't use anecdotal data to make our assessments

[@sanniepstein4835]

@@graphikeye Median death age 80. Just like other flus. Not an anecdote.

[@graphikeye]

@@sanniepstein4835 do you think the median death age is what matters the most during a viral epidemic? The issue with COVID (or any other viral disease) is not the median death age, but the r factor for its spread. That's why we talk about the importance of "flattening the curve", something that completely gets lost in the discourse and has to be reiterated every. Single. Time.

[@laurahodgson6531]

We've got another one who doesn't understand correlation and causation 🤦‍♀

[@underpauler9096]

No we will not. The reason is much deeper than anyone of those authors can imagine. It goes far back to antique times and the roots are even from stoneage. Any social phenomenon can be tracked down to two things. (actions of the earth and most pecunary things are a bit different tho)

[@zerphase]

I keep wanting to call you Ron Johnson.

[@SirBlackReeds]

Someone really ought to interview Ronson specifically to have elaborate on what he was getting at with Jordan Peterson and more seeming to become caricatures of themselves. A Daily Beast article of all things summed up Peterson's descent quite well: the drama with that one Canadian bill boosted him to his peak, then he became a content creator and the money rolled in, Tammy's struggle with cancer, his addiction to benzodiazepines, then he joined up with The Daily Wire, which cut out an important section of his audience by limiting him to an ecosystem of conservative and Libertarian podcasters and social media, then COVID happened which kept cooped up for a time. Combined with his Twitter addiction and it's a perfect recipe for a man to become a shell of his former self. Not to mention that all throughout this timeline, his sense of fashion seems to become cartoonish, especially with the two-toned devil suit. However, one of the most important factors in all of this is that these people think that Twitter discourse reflects reality, an especially dangerous position to hold if Kremlin-sponsored bots have been fomenting hatred of America (and Anti-Semitism) since before COVID. ReasonTV should really bring Walter Russell Mead on because he brought that topic up on an episode of his podcast about Tucker Carlson effectively spreading propaganda for the Kremlin.

[@silasdjo]

There were no deaths with the drug AZT?

[@JasonJrake]

Barry Sears, the inventor of AZT, spoke out about how dangerous it is and began writing books about using nutrition and exercise to reduce disease.

[@rosehip5101]

Down vote for that one and then there was the conspiracy theory labeling and defense of Fauci. Claiming these were "health authorities".

[@aptkeyboard3173]

Excited delirium is very much a real thing but is not a diagnosis of something specific out of the DSM etc

[@chrismiller5198]

Jon Ronson or Ron Jonson?

[@AtaraxiaaixaratA]

Of course...Nick is NOT Alex Jones. Nick is more than happy to keep the channel monetized and state that 'the jabs worked'. *applause

[@nedhill1242]

I’m sorry do these two still think George Floyd was murdered? Anyone that’s ever watched the police tape the entire chest cam video knows George Floyd was not murdered. He was saying I can’t breathe before he was ever in handcuffs and on the ground. His heart blew up because of drugs and high blood pressure. That guy was on the way to being dead no matter what. As far as going crazy with Covid. Not where I am. I’m in South Carolina. Most of the south didn’t go crazy like other places. Other than for a brief period Our lives went on like normal. Other than certain places that would require you to wear a mask. And of course I resisted that at every turn. And never ever came close to getting jabbed. But for the most part in the south, we lived relatively normally. And we laughed at schools and colleges being shut down because we knew it was stupid and ridiculous.

[@woodchuck003]

I am hoping he is arguing that Floyd can both be a victim of poor policing and poor life choices. It does seem weird to ignore the way more massive and harmful societal reaction to Saint Floyd dying. The negative consequences of the public vastly overestimating police brutality is a lot harder to avoid then not commiting petty crime and overdosing on opioids.

[@coryc9040]

Medical experts provided testimony under oath with opinions that differ from yours. I know that doesn't make them right, but your claim that "anyone that’s ever watched the police tape the entire chest cam video knows George Floyd was not murdered" is categorically false. Also the idea that he was "on the way to being dead no matter what" is wild speculation and unfalsifiable. People with high tolerance to fentanyl can survive having higher amount in their system than Floyd had. As a layperson, to me it looked like Floyd was having a panic attack prior to being restrained. I'm not even saying you're wrong, but maybe have a little humility. These things aren't as black and white as you're making them out to be.

[@woodchuck003]

@@coryc9040 it's strange how you are complaining about binary thinking, yet claiming the medical examiners testified that Floyd definitely died only due to the actions of the police.

[@graphikeye]

Man, there could be a comet hurling into the earth and you guys would still call it "going crazy". Anything that brings any slight amount of discomfort to your lives is tyranny. Funny enough, we can all go look at the stats and see where the excess deaths per capita happened.

[@JJ-rv7tt]

Derek Chauvin was charged with, and found guilty of, murder, so yes, he was murdered

[@hal511bm]

What is the difference between the COVID vaccine and the food at McDonald's ? When the food at McDonald's kills you, you die happy. Just kidding. I'm still loving it !

[@hughiedavies6069]

There's a good play by JG Ballard called Home . It describes what happened to people during lockdown 😃, even though it was written long before it happened. I had a kind of excited delirium after lockdown, now im back to daily mundane morbid depression 🫥

[@Lee-bv6iv]

Glad to hear you're back to your old self. And, thank you for the recommendation. I'm definitely going to take a look.

[@tobiaswebb]

(Inter) National Treasure.

[@ironbarkesq]

overturned everything he said in last 5 minutes and even understood that himself, cowardly, lazy, pointless in the end

[@hal511bm]

Thank you for keeping the public well informed. We all need aids to understand the effects of vaccines on healthy immune systems. Medicating healthy populations is next to do no harm.

[@PeterQuentercrimsonbamboo]

Please, people, stop talking in terms of “.. ‘we’ went nuts../.. ‘our’ COVID insanity… ‘we’ were wrong…” - it is- and was not ‘us’ who went lunatics, it were very specific individuals who ought be named by their names ! Just as we understand that “… for the good of society…” and “… its best for the group..” are misleading terms, as the group and society are, in reality, made up of individual human beings, it is Not us who are COVID-insane !

[@lynzannabel6990]

Right.

[@edm2189]

Ronson (along with many others) smeared his former friend Graham Linehan as a deranged bigot over his alarm at ‘gender affirming care’ which we’ve known for a long time has been an ideologically-driven medical scandal. He’s indirectly referring to Graham in this video when he’s talking about friends going down a rabbit hole. Lost a lot of respect for him. I hope he can front up to his cowardice

[@petekapinos585]

BatShit Crazy is Right 😅

[@jer1014t2th]

First 😊

[@_datapoint]

"Keep the conversation going" is one way to put it. I know that I would always "keep the conversation going" because I believed that I was right and thought I could change someone's mind, on the internet, via text, by insulting them and hopefully shaming them to seeing how wrong they really are, which never works. I don't do that anymore, and I actually try to understand what I am talking about too. kzbin.info/www/bejne/ZqS5XqZ3jLqMoZIsi=3uoODJGf0QOtljPL&t=387