Have We Lost Sight Of What Makes Classic... Classic? | WoW Classic

[@WillEmmo]

Click this link sponsr.is/WillE and use my code WILLE to get 25% off your first payment for boot.dev. That’s 25% your first month or your first year, depending on the subscription you choose.

[@kohlerk30]

Give me CRED

[@Ryan_hey]

10:35 This is definitely an exaggeration. As we pointed out years ago, WillE had not logged on the correct realm group for the given region (i.e. Whitemane for US, etc.). The realms were rural, of course, but they were still multiple guilds raiding all tiers, including sub-2 hour Naxx runs. Showing an empty city has never been truthful to the state of Era. There was always gonna be a small group of players who didn't want to move on to TBC.

[@dbix11]

If it wasn't for ai automating code I'd be all for learning it

[@ian5066]

I've learned as time went on that what I like about classic WoW is the classic experience itself. Long leveling, tons of dungeons with nice lore backstory's, lots of travel and difficulty to accomplish anything. They could add 5 or 10 more levels to classic zones by fleshing out more of the old world and just push the raids to 70 and I'd love it and add raids onto that and so on. It's a journey that is not at all replicated in expansions. Expansions from TBC onward if I wanted to play them, I wouldn't mind just starting at 70,80, etc. and doing just that content. Don't lie to me having me quest ever faster in the old world just to spend my remaining time in expansion land. The expansion raids, quests and dungeons are fun on their own, but they are not an embodiment of how classic old-world WoW played.

[@peterman8848]

Agree wholeheartedly. It's so refreshing meeting people in questing zones and just playing the game with them, chatting, gathering a fungeon group together. It's so much better than what happens in retail or even cataclysm onwards. Don't get me wrong, cataclysm pvp is probably the best there is, but still not the same leveling experience at all

[@weatheredseeker]

Agreed. They don't even have to push to 70. They could keep level cap the same or they could even just make the level cap 61 and add Kara and some quests

[@mikeclarke3990]

Their are great private servers that keep the level cap but add new dungeons and raids in the spirit of original WoW using the unfinished areas like Karazhan

[@eddgrs9193]

I wished for Classic Plus. Add content to the unfinished and less developed zones, expand the lore, add more quests and fix some class specs to make them more viable and fun. Even some form of high level "elite" dungeons would be awesome for casual players, because let's face it, most people don't have time to raid and there isn't much you can do at level 60. But people would still like to chill with their friends. If they balance the classes, there would be more incentive for people to try out classes and specs they didn't try before. Adding new zones to discover, and a new level 60 dungeon from time to time would be great and keep players coming back. Let retail be the game for min/max no-lifers, have Classic Plus be the game for people who want to chill, solo or with their friends. But we can't get that because of the #Nochanges small but vocal crowd, and the toxic gaming community in general.

[@eddgrs9193]

@DirtyFan2 Thank you for proving my point.

[@weekendjail1417]

Started playing from day one of WoW, have come and gone many times. The largest thing BY FAR that people miss about vanilla (and the first couple expansions) seems to be the mindset of the player base. People seemed much friendlier back in the day, there was more fun to things, both guilds and groups of players in general were more inviting. It's difficult to even describe. Basically the opposite of the groups of people that will rage if someone doesn't have the best gear, that kind of stuff. Maybe I'm viewing the old days through rose colored glasses, who knows. Blizzard can mayybee do is make a new server type for people who are just more laid back. IDK how that would even play out, though. IDK, unless I'm pretty much forced to because of friends, I stick to RP servers generally. Those seem to have the friendliest people.

[@cotyemerson203]

Come to grobbulus, it’s everything I ever dreamed. Came by accident after dying on hardcore and I’ll never look back. Nicest most helpful people I’ve ever met, even more so than hardcore

[@pip5528]

I'd say the Classic community went to crap in Wrath Classic. I had such good experiences in 2019-2022. Now it's all parsing, gatekeeping, GDKP, botting, cheating, etc.

[@Quick-Silver206]

In my opinion, Classic, Progression, and Modern are all we need. Classic for the comfort of always staying the same, Progression for the feeling of going through it again, and Modern for the newest stuff. Just never take away my beloved Classic.

[@Arcexey]

@Quick-Silver206 it needs to be classic with changes or else the playerbase will split between the progression servers

[@Quick-Silver206]

@@Arcexey classic has shared servers. Progression servers are separate.

[@Arcexey]

@@Quick-Silver206 I'm saying there's too many versions of wow right now for classic to be truly viable.

[@lycaeo]

Easiest way to put it regarding SoD: There is no discovery. There is no capturing the essence of WoW. It's just rushing to level cap to raid log which is why people started to leave the game in the first place.

[@Domaister420]

Yeah... its more like a new era-parsing season instead of true discovery.

[@skycatlive1576]

best most astute comment here couldnt of said it better, church, GONE BY LEVEL 40

[@bmo14lax]

I still don't even understand what season of Discovery is. It's classic wow But they added new things? What Even is the point then?

[@Domaister420]

@@bmo14lax yeah well... Some runes, just to improve your class... some pvp events and they changed some dungeons to raids. Wow. Oh and i forgot that ppl milking the shit out of it. Try to find groups that dont require all possible WBs and Cons, oh and i forgot. X/x Boss experience. So basically a season to gatekeep the casuals

[@bmo14lax]

@@Domaister420 whats next? Every expansion will have a new "theme" to it? Endless random changes to old content instead of just more retail content? Mangggg

[@candlestyx8517]

I do feel old, cata was released when I was 20 yo and going through basic training; I'm now 34 and left the military two years ago. Brings back memories of raiding on a laptop late at night while on deployments

[@Vagitarian01]

hahaha I remember bringing a laptop with WoW to Iraq and being able to get on just long enough to tell my guild there was no damn way I was going to be able to play.

[@LittleJohnaton]

I was playing wotlk when i was living and working in the middle east as a 20 y.o. (but not as a soldier) - we kinda have shared mems in a weird way!

[@RoniWoodward]

Very interesting, Cata was actually my first expansion after I got out of the military as a 25 year old, and had the same wow experience on a laptop overseas, though I imagine the internet was just as bad and made raiding impossible for me!

[@pun15h3r.]

hahaha this is almost me man.. fk how time flies by man...

[@Jotunheimr]

Dude, you just said the exact thing i was thinking. Im still serving though

[@pip5528]

I honestly miss the 2019-2020 experience. Having only 1 form of Classic and a nicer playerbase was truly a simpler time, though apparently the new community fresh start movement wants to keep Zandalar Tribe and Deviate Delight pure and absent of botting, cheating, or an inflated economy from server transfers. Also, Classic Era did get changes eventually, particularly in the PvP ranking system.

[@user-up8pd6id9s]

TBC has always been and will always be peak WoW for me, if they released it it would probably be my forever home for WoW and I'd dip into SoD every so often

[@benny7555]

STILL angry there's no era servers for tbc. I'd have never even gone to wotlk, I'd still be on tbc.

[@andromidius]

So long as its fun I don't really care. If we're being true to the past then it comes with all the negatives - and I'm not about that anymore. I just want to replay good times with current knowledge and have fun with friends.

[@Liffwoodstation]

The knowledge that classic era is preserved forever brings a sense of comfort I can hardly explain.

[@zipzzo]

Yea I mean except for the fact they've changed a bunch of stuff in concurrence with SOD release (Pvp ranking mechanisms are unrecognizable).

[@Liffwoodstation]

@@zipzzo yeah it’s going to be a shock I’m sure. I’ll try and keep an open mind 😅

[@paulwalther5237]

I was ready to go back to TBC as soon as my toons hit level 80.

[@PheonixT-ki8rx]

same

[@dosbilliam]

Kind of wish there'd been a version of TBC with Dungeon Finder; that would have eliminated the reason for dropping the attunement requirements from Revered to Honored entirely. :P

[@brandonkruse6412]

For a few months. TBC was fun while it lasted but let’s be honest, the (sun)well is dry

[@datolicious4832]

Hell yeah, would love tbc fresh servers

[@zankom417]

​@@brandonkruse6412sunwell was the most fun ive had in a raid ever.

[@burntfish123]

Wotlk has *always* been the most popular xpac for private servers, kinda wild theyre not leaving a permanent server for it

[@glentor3]

Activision hates it’s customers.

[@Sly_404]

@@glentor3Blizzard is owned by Microsoft by now.

[@peterc2672]

Cause the classic player base didn't like it

[@gx92muc]

Man, nostalrious, lightshope and all the other Vanilla pservers before, wotlk was Not the Most popular with only warmane

[@BrentHollett]

​@@Sly_404Microsoft didn't make the decision though.

[@thehashslingingslasher6443]

Dark portal pass ruined it. Wow classic was amazing then they decided to add level 58 boosts. Thats when i quit. When leveling to 60 was easy as paying $60. Wow should be about the leveling journey and earning the end game content. Not pay to win. Working to 60 just to see some random getting level 58 boosts is unacceptable.

[@tonyr6180]

Unfortunately, given when you quit, you have absolutely no idea what classic is about.

[@BigBrotherBobby]

Have you tried not being poor

[@Emeraldice]

Level 58 boost was the allow new players to catch up for the cata release. They still had to grind from 58 to 70 in garbage gear.

[@drewneale3675]

I would give cata a try again but they really need to sort the servers out, pvp servers that are dominated by a single faction is not a pvp server.

[@Jaricko]

Pve are largely the same. Both are caused by the players.

[@dontreplytome5665]

Your best bet is grobb if you want true wpvp

[@drewneale3675]

@@dontreplytome5665 im eu pleb :(

[@drewneale3675]

@@Jaricko blizzard sure don't help, they should do what they have done with classic era servers imo.

[@korkron8756]

Could they "buff" the less played faction as an example? Let's say that on "X" realm which is currently dominated by the Horde, players will receive a buff for playing in the Alliance instead. Simple but effective? As long as it doesn't become anything unfair that breaks the balance. Just wondering here.

[@hizzousekakashi8836]

HAH! I already felt old when classic came out, I logged into retail and my rogue was STILL getting the brewfest booze of the month over 10 YEARS after I had completed that quest.

[@darkstar2205]

The game hasn't been classic since the playerbase ruined it

[@ahoyforsenchou7288]

Which happened towards the latter portion of WotLK. Disagreement = you are a tourist, enjoy.

[@darkstar2205]

@@ahoyforsenchou7288 Yeah the wow community is garbage. Literally the worst of any game

[@Lua64]

@@ahoyforsenchou7288 no u

[@Krooic]

you are completely right. The people the complain about retail are the same people who made retail what it is today.

[@htconatser]

The meta-gaming ruined it for me. Same with SOD. It feels like a job now and not something that can be enjoyed.

[@joshyman221]

I don’t understand why people lump wotlk with classic and tbc. Cata and wrath are very similar. Tbc and classic are similar. Mop and wod are similar. The game is more naturally split into pairs not trilogies (imo)

[@WingTzu343]

Yeah I agree. I didn't realize it back then but it's super obvious to me now. WRATH was the changing expac not Cata. TBC was literally vanilla+ in a new continent. Wrath completely changed the style of the game, Cata was Wrath+

[@tjlehn3157]

Yeah I agree except for MoP/WoD, I think MoP/Cata/Wrath could all be lumped together. WoD feels like the starting point of modern WoW, at least to me.

[@conormaher2283]

Agree with this take

[@haldir108]

@@WingTzu343 TBC and Wrath are more similar than Vanilla and TBC are similar.

[@Toini01]

Sort of, the big change in WotLK was basically difficulty. In phase 1, everything was made face roll easy (quest mobs were 2 shots, elites were soloable, HC dungeons a joke and Naxx super easy too, rep grinds were much faster, etc.). But at its core, WotLK still had all of the mechanics of original WoW in the way the quests are made, the talent trees, the mechanics, the progression of the game, the professions, etc. The only other notable change, which really wasn't "classic" was the threat generation of tanks becoming a non issue. But overall, it was more of a tuning issue than an actual shift in WoW all together. Whereas for Cataclysm, the issue was significantly more linked to core mechanics (portals everywhere, LFD from the start of the xpac, LFR, flying during questing content, talent trees, smaller dungeons/raids, even more focus on "esport" content, etc.). Personally, I would love to one day just have a TLK server, but with all of the mobs (in and outside of instances) highly buffed. Make the kill time of an average quest mob the same as in TBC and maybe reign in a tiny bit the classes. With this, I feel like TLK could be the best WoW version because it just had such an immersive world, technically a lot of content (with TBC level difficulty) and lots of nice small additions (achievments, more collectable, more quest diversity, best lore, lots of fun seasonal events that have you do stuff, etc.)

[@pppoopoo4514]

I could literally play nothing else except TBC and I'd be happy. Give me TBC SoD with the windfury druids and a raidwide bloodlust with sated debuff and I'd die happy.

[@MikeyPaper]

Didnt most people stop playing in TBC though?

[@dontreplytome5665]

​@@MikeyPaperthat was in the later half of wrath and in cata TBC popped off

[@thomaskoltiska6825]

Then this is not tbc anymore lmao

[@zacharyblossom9469]

I'd love for SoD to make it through BC and Wrath, then start from the beginning again (and they can change shit around each time they restart the cycle... Maybe different raid for each phase during the second cycle)

[@electricwizard5747]

this mindset is 100% part of the problem. this whole "oh just give me X buuuuuuuut maaaaaybe add Y to spice things up a little". no, just no. you don't want the original thing to begin with. where you draw the line when it comes to which changes are acceptable and which ones aren't is absolutely arbitrary. while you might find it negligible that druids are getting windfury, someone else might not see it that way and wants #nochanges tbc instead. or maybe someone wants vulpera to be playable in tbc or have garrisons added to the game which YOU might not agree with. so who gets to say what's still acceptable and what isn't? everyone has vastly different visions for the game that it's impossible to find a common denominator for everyone, except for one instance: no changes. no changes is truly the most neutral solution that should satisfy most people equally, after all, if you hate the base game in the first place, might as well play something completely different like dragonflight.

[@simonholmes6473]

I feel like a lot of people are hoping SoD goes permanent and becomes the start of a continuing new direction.

[@randomshouse266]

Need sod 2 with how much they messing the economy up.

[@brandonsaffell4100]

@@randomshouse266 My gamer, the economy isn't ruined. Though I suspect your inability to view anything in other than the most extreme way may have ruined yourself.

[@ez6791]

No way. Let them do a couple seasons to keep cooking

[@Asubatsu]

Nah, at this point I just want classic to make it to Legion again so I can actually enjoy it this time.

[@Zeph914]

Sod is a bit trash right now.

[@LittleJohnaton]

They probably overcooked the nightmare incursions a little, people dinged 50 within a few hours haha

[@Mrgearzz]

10 hours

[@chrismcaulay7805]

@@Mrgearzz 4 hours is all it took me (but that was after it was refined).

[@Mrgearzz]

@@chrismcaulay7805 ok you win the smallest cock competition well done x

[@jorrelerivera3777]

I feel like classic went wrong with including Warcraft logs, I believe that should be a retail measurement for raiding. Where dps/healing checks are required. Classic was the place for everyone to be included, you didn’t need everyone in your 40 man raid to be orange parsed but that’s what was required.

[@Blubking1]

You do know that logs existed even back in tbc?

[@i.m.3940]

Not true at all, you could get in pretty much ANY guild on Classic without having all orange/pink parses, the only exceptions were maybe the top 20 guilds or so. I feel like the people that constantly complain about this are literal grey parsers who expect to show up to raid and not press any buttons or something. If you simply played the game like a normal person without any sort of tryharding and sweating, you were guaranteed an 80+ and access to like 98% of all guilds, all that was required was just pulling your own weight, nothing more. And that really only became a thing during BWL, pre launch and phase 1 MC literally nobody cared about parses whatsoever.

[@noble61483]

​@@i.m.3940 if everyone got on and pressed thier buttons those 80+ parses would turn to a 50... you do realize that right? 🧐 since your score is based on how well you do against others of the same class and role

[@i.m.3940]

@@noble61483 Since you want to go into the "what if" territory, if everyone got on and pressed their buttons, guilds would be clearing all the content with ease and people wouldn't care about parses nearly as much, if at all. Its crazy the lengths people will go to just to make excuses for and justify their obvious lack of care for their performance. I get it, some people just don't like parses and thats fine, I'm not the biggest fan of them either but saying you need all oranges or pinks just to get into a raid/guild is simply lying and has never been the case in Classic except for some very few extreme examples.

[@mikeoxlong3676]

Further proof wow players ruined the game and not blizzard.

[@yourdreams2440]

TBC is the perfect mix between classic and retail, but needed some refinement. Even though it's flawed, I'd play the hell out of it again.

[@kuyt3400]

I wish there was TBC era servers.

[@Arcexey]

@yourdreams2440 I played a few months of vanilla and then all of TBC, and looking back TBC was seriously flawed. Flying mounts, arena, heroic badges, vehicle/pick up quests, daily quests, heroic difficulty helped ruin wow and TBC started all those. TBC is in my heart forever but it really was the beginning of the end, I used to think Cata was, then Wotlk, now I see TBC did harm.

[@hockeyplaya1155]

TBC was boring quit that shit so fast

[@thehashslingingslasher6443]

Dark portal pass ruined it 100%

[@heyhelmar]

does that line up with Activision taking over?

[@matthewkeating-od6rl]

This new sod patch is a retail patch released on clasic. Where a simple idea of just have a beta with nda could have saved everyone making 50 in 1 day.

[@Zutang777]

Can you explain? In More detail?

[@randomrandom7208]

why is this a problem? Anyone who wants slow and methodical leveling can go to era/hardcore, SoD is for people who want to play with shiny new toys in a familiar environment rather than replaying old memories once again.

[@billlange9408]

@RichSmithson Legit. I did two rounds of quests with some guildies and made around 120g.

[@radenkovic2856]

@@randomrandom7208 yep. i really enjoy a raid looking finally a bit difficult. gnomer and bfd were boring af and i stopped early in both phases. Healing those fights in farm with cutting healers is gonna be hella fun

[@Finalyayap13]

@RichSmithson I never understood people who type responses without reading the op and reinvent what was said…don’t do drugs kids.

[@krispy4605]

The xp boosts and incursions killed this phase. We want classic + but some people want retail + which is what is being delivered.

[@troublegamingclips1059]

Yeah it’s gone a bit mad tbh

[@raminMTL]

Take it easy

[@Dreakx1]

Long live Turtle WoW and Project Epoch

[@LittleJohnaton]

my thoughts exactly!!

[@ernestphillips761]

I'd love for a server to go through progression again since i missed classic to tbc I would like that experience

[@louisnel894]

I want TBC Era so badly :(

[@redryan20000]

This doesn't make sense to me. Someone like myself never lost sight of what makes it classic. The Blizzard team merely decided they did not want to keep it classic, they want to make this into "tourism mode" where people just see what things were sort of like in a previous expansion. It goes without saying that Cata is the clear demarcation point between classic and retail. Wrath was already slipping into the retail mentality, and with Cata destroying the old world, homogenizing classes, and so on, there's not much left that can be described as the "Classic" feel of the game.

[@kbredstar529]

counter point to what youre saying around 5:00 ... if you played back then and continued to play, if you leveled alts that doesnt mean your doing cata stuff for the first time in 14 years, we were doing cata stuff for years until chromie let us pick a different xpac. ive done cata dungeons so many times, id rather put a cigarette out on myself than run Vortex Pinn one more time. some folks have done cata crap hundreds of times until chromie showed up and gave us a way out that didnt involve seppuku.

[@fredrikstaffansson4473]

Classic: Slow-paced, you're not a hero from the start but you can become one, the game is about the world. Retail: Follow the meta, crunch numbers, collect everything

[@terry9819]

I started SoD recently and knew nothing about it. I was stunned at how with in the first few hours the magic was there. It was just a great gaming experience taking me back to why vanilla was so good and then changes started happening and at first it was interesting but as I am playing through it seems SoD is making all the mistakes retail made over 20 years and is starting to look like all the worst parts of retail in the vanilla setting. It amazes me that there still seems to be this complete misunderstanding of why vanilla was so great.

[@LittleJohnaton]

The 1-25 levelling experience was really cool I think.

[@hockeyplaya1155]

Sod is not classic. It’s a meme twitch hype mode. Huge cope player base. Adding abilities from established expansions because vanilla classes are trash

[@terry9819]

@@hockeyplaya1155 The classes needed some work but Vanilla WoW is a much better game than the modern versions where classes are even more of a mess.

[@smallpandochka]

Blizz can just do their version of *certain private fresh servers* with tbc and wotlk. Reset it every 1.5-2 years, and they'll have the crowd willing to pay subscription over and over again

[@datolicious4832]

This!!! Dont know why they just put a fresh server out...just one wouldnt take much work tbh

[@Moredhel83]

@@thomaskoltiska6825 crowned, like royalty? ;p

[@michaelmller4582]

I just wrote this.. I thought i was smart! xD It's good stuff! :D

[@michaelmller4582]

Maybe make like an "Eternal" realm for excisting chars, that way - they dont just get deleted.

[@candlestyx8517]

I agree, reset the servers every two years and put everyone on an even slate again. Finding a group for anything is impossible between the boosting meta and the fact that everyone is maxxed and wearing raid gear.

[@newnamesameperson397]

The classic era for me ended after cataclysm. All the expansions up to that point changed the world dynamically. I thought it was cool how old zones changed, it gave a reason to go back to those old places but after mop the world is just stagnant and hasn't changed at all for nearly 2 decades. Old zones are just frozen in time and that kinda sucks. Expansions are just self contained islands that freeze once the next releases. Some people say it would be alot of work to update old zones....yo they got the money, blizzard makes millions off wow. Are you saying they can't hire more people to do that. They aren't a small indy studio with a couple of guys in a basement so i don't buy the excuse that it's too hard. Make old zones relevant again that's all I'm saying. My immersion breaks whenever i step out of stormwind, maybe some optional scaling for those folks at max level who want to go back and do old content without 1 hitting everything

[@elxjasonx]

Those 100k logs of icc are mostly ppl raiding with 3 chars, some with more

[@vulture27fm]

Absolutely. This phase has been out WAY too long and the Cata beta is still a complete mess. The hardcore players are still around but the more casual players are dropping like flies.

[@MoonTurky]

​@@vulture27fm Why in gods name would anybody who casually plays a game pick world of warcraft for their game of choice? I think i would rather put my dck in a pencil sharpener than play world of warcraft after work.

[@WillEmmo]

Could be the same for classic era with how long everyone has had to get 60 / gear up. Its just a gauge of player interest in the scene really

[@krucible9369]

With each phase SOD grows closer to retail

[@LittleJohnaton]

The latest update is INSANE the emerald thing is just plain bonkers.

[@jointser1008]

oh noooooo, who cares as long it get closer to a good retail expansion like mop or legion?

[@kuyt3400]

correct. They removed or replaced most of the classic content already. The questing, the itemization, a lot of the dungeons.

[@MikeyPaper]

I like the direction theyre taking. Its new but still classic. Quit whining you stupid doomer.

[@thomaskoltiska6825]

Wtf when the last time you played retail. 😂. So me be in a guild and talking to people on discord out of raid yeah trust me that has not happen to Me in years in retail

[@josedavidmunozmartinez4722]

I'm just going to shoot a fact that everybody knows but is too afraid to say it. Out of all people that "hate" Cataclysm, 50% didn't even play it, 20% are Arthas widows (meaning that they don't like Classic, but only Wotlk), 10% did play it and left after first half of the expansion, however, since WoW was already 7 years by this point, there's a huge amount of people that got older, acquired new responsibilities, got children, college, married etc... and didn't have time to play, however they won't admit that's the actual reason they quit and instead they say "They hated Cata" and the other 20% are the people who actually played during the whole expansion and got bored after last patch becasue it lasted for over a year, this last point is the only valid one because I also agree and I was one of these people.

[@Blubking1]

Change the 10% and 20% and we are at the same page. Its actually hilarious to see how many people hate Cata just because they heard it and not because they played it

[@nightcult1741]

I'm playing through the beta test and personally, it does not hit like TBC or even Wrath did. It feels bizarre flying through the old world. Everything is far too fast. Just my personal tastes.

[@lohse63]

So the only valid opinion is coincidentally the one you have, interesting!

[@josedavidmunozmartinez4722]

Oops sorry, I decided to use the same logic than the "Since I don't like it, nobody else likes it" kind of people :)... Something you RARELY see on Arthas widows.

[@Howdypartnerlol]

@BIGOFFANnot wild at all? The guy said the only valid reason was valid BECAUSE he agrees with it. Kinda obvious

[@radguy72]

I think I want something in between classic era and SoD. I like the different abilities but I don't like breezing through the content. I'd like a modification of the talent trees too. Not too crazy but something to spice it up.

[@lucaschebance3135]

If you want the abilities, why don't you play retail ?

[@SomeHarryGuy]

​@lucaschebance3135 you didn't read his whole comment you rube

[@Schwanken]

Cause retails content is a completely different game?​@@lucaschebance3135

[@Zhohan-]

Turtle/Epoch and my personal favorite: WALLCRAFT

[@randomrandom7208]

@@lucaschebance3135 Because retail are either completely casual or extremely competitive, with very little in between? And retail doesn't just add abilities, it fundamentally changes classes.

[@shadowlife15]

short answer? yes. Vanilla wow is the best version of WoW that has ever existed, it wasn't perfect, but it was "fun"

[@DR-lh5vm]

Imagine in a couple of years you buy wow as a new player and you have to choose between 15 different game modes.

[@MrTheFrankMan]

Last time I was this early we were demanding no changes

[@snuggles3277]

the wow token being added in wrath killed it overnight

[@Ha1fw1tty]

This

[@ClassicTophatGaming]

What a bad take, it did very little. If anything SoD killed wrath overnight.

[@THEPete_]

Completely agree

[@candlestyx8517]

The same way it fucked up retail, i highly doubt retails economy will ever recover

[@mandurrudnam7632]

i actually loved the wow token, it gave me the chance to dump my gold and play the game for free for the next two years

[@quinn562]

5:24 not sure if it was just my server (pretty sure it wasn't) but ironforge was the place to be back in the day - the layout is superior and honestly was probably just better for the computers of the day with how wide open it was lol

[@zipzzo]

Yeah SW only became the city to be because IF cannot get Dragonslayer and wbuffs were exponentially more popular in Classic than original vanilla (for obvious reasons)

[@Yamstarch]

They should do a Classic+ where they release previous cancelled content and zones that were the initial idea. There is still so much broken lore and unfinished areas within Vanilla WoW and I think Cata was a way for them to kind of take an eraser to all of that in the first place and "redo" it without completing it. Sadly they will never take the time and resources to do it.

[@StickyBuns1390]

blizz slicing the wow pie up too many ways lol

[@edmontonlivermoore4935]

5d chess it’s their move to combat private servers, and it’s working. they are generally ghost towns and cata pservers are up next. Imo the true dream is all of these servers hosted by blizzard will have sizable populations

[@lucaschebance3135]

yes that's true, the community is cleaved => servers are dead

[@bushido-z-8400]

Would be good to have 1 server for each version of the game. Rotate "fresh" launch every few years then dump them into the ERA version of that server.

[@thelegendarydeikay3071]

@Medio2507 you mean those guys that were abusing female workers that got found out couple years ago and got removed from blizzard team? alot of the old blizzard are old and out of touch with current gaming market, everyone has a shelf like

[@Alex_Was_Taken]

​@@thelegendarydeikay3071I'd buy a game they made in a heartbeat. They were the ones that made blizzard's golden games that are still loved today, not whatever is in control now that tries to "reforge" old stuff for a quick cash grab

[@heavyd834]

I played the hell out of TBC classic. I quit after TBC transitioned to Wrath classic, came back a month or so later and rejoined my TBC guild, but Wrath just didn't do it for me and I quit again two months later. TBC is by far my favorite version of Wow and I'd kill to have it back.

[@dwelldex1708]

I want tbc! Tbc hype, tbc hype!

[@Peleski]

I don't really know of this world where classic servers are doing OK. All the ones I used are dead and people have just moved on.

[@Laborchet]

My Guild fell apart at the hands of ulduar in WOTLK. Life got busy and I stopped playing because I didn’t wanna start building a raid team from scratch… then SOD dropped and I was so tempted to go back. But vanilla is such a time sink… if they did TBC era servers I would be on that INSTANTLY. The problem is how do you launch that? Nobody has their lvl 60 character anymore. So do we all just start at 58 in blasted lands?

[@astralfields]

SoD is significantly less of a timesink than nochanges vanilla. I'd say it's around the same as TBC. Yeah you still need to earn gold, you need to farm some things, but the raids are easy, you don't need much gear, prebis isn't needed at all... it becomes as much of a timesink as you want it to be really. Personally I just play 2-3 times per week and outside of that I play other games.

[@koffin522]

​@@astralfieldsTBC rep grinds way more of a time sink than SoD

[@undacuvabrotha]

Isn’t TBC more of a grind than Vanilla?

[@jesseperez4185]

Getting rep with warsong and arathi is way easier

[@zepho100]

Why have such a comment without trying? You’ve made assumptions on what SOD is without even playing it. That’s a weird take and it’s casual friendly.

[@reaperbot5226]

I would like to see them do a season server where players can't use third party add-ons.

[@brettprickett4146]

I'm all for that except when i start think of non combat things like auction addons. The default Auction menu is awful.

[@reaperbot5226]

@@brettprickett4146 well I did say third party add-ons. so they could add some minor quality of life improvements to the base game itself or come out with official blizzard approved add-ons even.

[@artemd2025]

Haha, you'd play alone there

[@whtwolfgames7983]

Tbc was my fave expansion, but sadly I don't think we're ever getting a legacy server for it

[@IMForeman27]

As someone who never played Mop, Wod or Legion back in the day I reallllly hope these happen, though I imagine Classic Wod will probably announced with Legion with both on the roadmap.

[@Raii_Chu]

People talking down on players that initially wanted “No Changes” and now wanting something different don’t understand the larger picture. At the time people were trying to safeguard as much as possible against any corporate butchering of the Vanilla launch. Also, it was also a good way for the players to organically come together and decide which parts of Vanilla aged well and which aspects did not. Players should not be shamed for supporting changes after a while of enjoying “No Changes” Vanilla. Classic is vastly different than Retail and as long is it stays that way then it will maintain a role in the community. The “No Changes” movement was to establish nostalgia, allowing the community to compare and contrast from old with new, and it also gave us all a metric of how much Blizzard was willing to listen to the community requested project. Turns out, the Classic team listens and is attuned to the community more than the bloated Retail team. Edit: typos

[@nat040496]

Yeah, this is precisely why I wished they'd gone the OSRS route and just made new content instead of following the timeline we already went through. I guess that would mean making a new story and lore, but at least it would have stayed "Classic"

[@thearbitersteven6503]

SoD if permanent can show us different ideas that didn't pan out in the old days, old dungeons that got halfway and then got cut. It would be awesome. Mist Classic is probably a possibility.

[@alexsnow652]

Cata was so awesome that It lost 4M players

[@mattom1796]

no, Cata was when player count was at an all time high

[@alexsnow652]

@mattom1796 end of WOTLK = 12.5M end of Cata = 7.5M Is a 2 min google search that hard for you?

[@stylesheetra9411]

Wotlk kiddies were hard filtered by cata first tier

[@newworld8546]

i just want a 2019 fresh not retail lite

[@Arcexey]

@newworld5846 2019 is retail bro. everything after vanilla/tbc is wow 2.0

[@oskardanigsecher9906]

Cata is legit one of the most fun expanssions there are tonal and identity issues for sure, but the content is great. I even think dragon soul gets more flag than it deserves.

[@WillEmmo]

The Tier set bonuses in DS tend to be giga powerful, it makes me want to play the raid just to see how they end up being

[@dokilar1]

I have always maintained Cata got a lot of flak for blizzards flip flopping on their dungeon difficulty and the fact the raid content was stretched too thin. As I understand it the revamp took a lot of time and resources but in my opinion was a needed change at the time. I actually enjoy some of the revamped zones storylines even to this day. As someone who never really got serious about the story Cataclysm was the first expansion that the threat of danger was real. I think the content drought between Firelands and Dragon Soul and then Dragon Soul to MoP was what really left a bad taste in a lot of peoples' mouths. I stopped playing about 3-4 months into TBC classic because my real life friends quit. I came back at Wrath launch and level a DK to 70 or so and leveld my Warlock to 70 I think but then ended up quitting again. I could see myself, at the very least, hitting max level on my characters in Cata. It wasn't my favorite expansion but it certainly isn't anywhere close to the worst, to each their own I say

[@Coriore445]

I was ready to go back to tbc in early wrath, realized I didn't like it as much as I thought.

[@Coriore445]

Id be stoked if they did a SoD tbc

[@Zajedwabisty124]

​@@Coriore445Why everyone want Sod tbc they just add spells from retail. Sod tbc will be the same awful like Classic Sod. Just add some content maybe 2+3 new spells from trainer class , no fck runes. In Sod world is complety fucked with new spells they too much powerful. Pvp never looks that bad. New raids is only good thing in Sod.

[@akuseru85]

11:05 It was never "no changes classic". It had loads of changes, game (vanilla) breaking changes. That's why most vanilla players quit a month into classic and never looked back.

[@LuisHernandez-nu1es]

SoD is very lame in P3, it's just incursions until level 50.

[@rolfgautier5540]

Levels should literally take 4 times as much time. Fast levels ruins character progression, RPG feel, and satisfaction. Now leveling is a boring, spam this incursion chore.

[@monocerotis6917]

Nightmare event destory whole wow classic sod!!!

[@cactuss33ds]

​@@rolfgautier5540oh sure, because it being 4 times as long would definitely make it not a chore anymore. be honest with yourselves, would you really wanna spend 400 hours leveling and gearing characters in a SEASONAL game mode? I'll admit that incursions are boring (and are now nerfed), but realistically, is it any worse than spamming ZF and Mara for hours on end(and at least THOSE give wild offerings now.)

[@Kensber85]

I think what i love about complaints like this is that no one is forcing you to do incursions. I still see lots of ppl trying to do ZF and mars and even uldaman

[@rolfgautier5540]

@@Kensber85 You don't seem to get the point that there is LITERALLY almost nobody leveling in the open world. It has killed open world leveling. Believe it or not there are alternatives to dungeon grinding.

[@mephik]

The "feeling" was already compromised on day 1 as we didn't have guides and min/maxing and every dungeon pathed out on speed run efficiency. That toothpaste isn't going back in the tube so it kind of is what it is. Looking to see new "guilds" pushing no-strat approaches to try to get some of that back. Seems to be the core of other issues that are community focused and not just design/mechanics fuckery.

[@CenasDeWinner]

I started playing classic wow about 4 months ago, I have a lvl 53 warrior on the classic era. The thing I love and hate the most is finding groups, I had to search for the active guilds, and made friends along the way that would help me with missions and dungeons. When it started out, I was left spamming in general for a group to do wc, but now I play brd with the same people who did zf 2 days ago with me

[@The4Dev]

Yes, give us TBC please!!

[@TheJadedRaver]

Think its worth some people here trying 'Turtle wow' if they havent already. I personally really enjoyed the classic + experience.

[@fizkarn6358]

Im gonna play Cata, i love playing a healer in that expansion. Actually having to manage your mana and not just spamming heals

[@noobarium]

you do already have to manage mana in wotlk but yes it does get much more exciting in cata

[@fizkarn6358]

@@noobarium as a holy pala in a good guild with fast kill times im just spamming holy light lol, no care about mana

[@sorakibr]

Going to play devils advocate on SoD. None of their world events have panned out. Locking runes behind reps or grinds, especially key role ones, is not garnering any good will. The change from 3 days lockouts to weekly I think will be a good thing and will see if that improves peoples opinions. Big fan of the rune system, but they've fumbled parts of it. Also agree with WillE that ive felt most people are done with the phases. It makes sense organizationally, but this points to another issue with SoD. It works, it's gotten people interested, but does it have staying power. What WoW established back in 2004 had staying power in that it carried it through to today. I think blizzard iterating is a good thing, but you run into the same problem some other media is having right now. Throwing shit at the wall to see what sticks is good sometimes, but there needs to be someone or some team with a plan. Or it will get old fast.

[@josedavidmunozmartinez4722]

The best part is when Arthas widows are claiming that they "LOVE CLASSIC TO DEATH" but Classic is only Wotlk for them lol... They would never play Vanilla as it is... Face it, Wrath is as far from Classic as Cataclysm ;)

[@fakemanky6838]

I dont know man. Taste can change. I was a arthas widodw ( started wow in tbc prepatch). 2019 showed me a better game. And in wrath classic i got to level 76 before i quit.

[@josedavidmunozmartinez4722]

@@fakemanky6838 Sure, but you would be a very small minority compared to the huge majority of Arthas widows.

[@Arcexey]

@josedavidmunozmartinez4722 Wrath is wow 2.0 just like cataclysm. it's an entirely different game from classic, a bad one. I loved wrath but looking back it was fun because it was addicting in the way a gambling machine is, or a cheap mobile game.

[@drizzho]

Even TBC felt so much different than classic because of flying and being only in Outland.

[@Arcexey]

@@drizzho I loved TBC and thought it was a perfect expansion to vanilla. and now I see TBC was really part of the problem, flying mounts were just a terrible idea looking back. Having the expansion be some other new area disconnected from the original was also a terrible idea. sigh. Also daily quests, badges of honor/multiple currencies, easy-ish epics, and ARENA. pvp should've had more of an emphasis on open world, not less.

[@jdmhbeats]

Im playing cataclsym classic right now. I played the free 20 levels back in the day and didint touch if after that until now. Im loving it

[@ukdoomer2082]

i just want a tbc server.... Wasnt the whole point of classic so we would have a permanent vanilla/tbc/wrath server?

[@liquidgoose9730]

I think one of the biggest sign on change in Cata was Transmogs. Although I LOVE transmogs and WoW fashion, you gotta admit that wearing a mash up of armour in Classic WoW was a serious vibe that feels like home.

[@JBayerBB6]

Just quit my guild and probably SoD altogether now that they released incursions and no one else is doing anything else and my guild has their alts nearly leveled already. Stupid decision servers gonna be raid logging in 3 weeks

[@LittleJohnaton]

give turtle wow a whirl if you haven't - its pretty cool!

[@karldergrosse-333]

@@LittleJohnaton Yeah im about to swap back to turltle. It feels way better than SOD. That's the true classic + experience.

[@hockeyplaya1155]

Sod is not classic. It’s a meme twitch hype mode. Huge cope player base. Adding abilities from established expansions because vanilla classes are trash

[@chrismcaulay7805]

SoD has been a major letdown. I only keep playing it to spend time with family and friends that no longer live near me.

[@jamesofallthings3684]

What we really wanted was our golden years back instead of facing the harsh reality that we're aging, balding and spent our prime inside drooling over pixels.

[@Arcexey]

The simplest answer is we've lost sight of the WORLD of warcraft. Instant gratification is the bane of WoW. aka Lfg, level skips, exp bonuses, free gear, badges, quest addons. The end-all-be-all of Classic WoW will have things like Questie banned. How many people in this very comment section will cry because of that? many.

[@Vhite]

SoD might be a path to more permanent Classic+, but so far it doesn't feel like a good one. As for Cataclysm, I'm looking forward to it, but I wish we had a different name for expansions from Cata to Legion.

[@kuyt3400]

Many people saw the writing on the wall with SoD before it even came out and were ringing the warning bells but noone wanted to listen. Fast forward to the end of SoD and everyone will be complaining about it.

[@mcfarvo]

Yeah, it's not "Classic" it's the Middle Age, maybe just call it "mid" lol

[@michaelmller4582]

I feel like 2-3 realms per expansion would be a good way to "please" everyone. Maybe make a "seasonal" system, where the patch cycle works around a year. And when it's done the server resets, and your chars get moved to an "eternal" realm.. Much like Diablos system, except seasons are Waaaay longer ..

[@noname-gp6hk]

MC and BWL were my favorite raids. Everything else was too complicated. I don't want mechanics, I just want to hang out in discord with the lads while barely paying attention to what's happening on the screen.

[@unlawfulbl9516]

So modern lfr

[@OrchinX]

This is what nobody is going to understand until it’s too late. People don’t want knuckle-scrapingly difficult encounters with 0.3s reaction times, wipe mechanics, knockbacks, mechanics, etc They want something thematic, satisfying, and fun. This is why nobody raids on retail. I say this as a 95 parsing uhdk clearing heroic LK

[@Blubking1]

@@OrchinX95 parsing in wrath us nothing and many people raid in retail, no idea where this tinfoil hat theory comes from

[@jointser1008]

skill issue

[@jointser1008]

@@OrchinX interesting that you play wotlk and yet dare to make a statement about retail lol.

[@preslim84]

As a vanilla Andy, I actually like Cata the most of all the expansions because of the raiding

[@Bottlekiller]

I would really like to see Wotlk Era servers too :(

[@Sammysam1231]

I had several toons in classic vanilla in near phase 6 BiS (my mage was only missing Ariesh). I advanced them to TBC and then quit. I wish I’d kept them in era. It’s been a few years and I’d absolutely love to revisit Naxx, even some ZG or BWL, just raid log and play a few nights a week.

[@gscgold]

Man 5 years ago unbelievable... I originally started playing wow only 3 years after the original release of the game.. And here we are 5 years after the second release of the original game I need to stop playing wow 😅

[@mcfarvo]

Get into lifting and some "cardio" modality or sport, definitely a better use of time if you aren't doing so, hut videogames can fit into your rest/recovery time

[@celestiangaming87]

Haha I told people this back then! I knew this because I asked them to release cata because I never got to play it back then. I have pull there. :)

[@BluuSkyz]

I should have came back to try classic BC.. thats when I started. I pretty much missed Wrath. I could get the leveling experience but no ones really playing I hear. If you would have asked me when cata came out I'd probably say 8 years ago lmaoo! When you said 14 years I couldn't believe it.

[@andrewjackson7511]

We lost the plot when the level boost was introduced in TBC "Classic".

[@CexCells]

Wrath baby here. Loved Cata. Excited to go back. Also would love a Wrath/Cata seasonal/SoD.

[@Bongoslam]

The simplicity and difficulty of classic is what I love. It creates a much more fun raiding atmosphere because there is room to goof around.

[@styx953]

Kinda wish runes were disabled in pvp, it is a shitshow. Otherwise SOD has been a blast!

[@saurlex1368]

I played classic from launch through to ICC and I'm pretty done with it. I'm not planning on playing Cata. SoD has been pretty fun imo. If Blizz did a Classic fresh I wouldn't play it again, I just did it for the last 5 years... If they get to MoP I'll loop back, I loved the theme.

[@derrickandrews1646]

I'm very nervous about how Cata Classic will pan out. SoD is getting more ridiculous each phase, Blizz seems lost on what they're doing. Give us Classic Era TBC with one change : shaman totems and bloodlust/heroism go raid wide. 😅

[@alex-suciu]

why is SoD getting ridiculous? just curious

[@kuyt3400]

@@alex-suciu When all the classic quests and zones become irrelevant and obsolete because youve funneled everyone into some cheap half baked content that looks like it was made by some kids that is located in a few small areas of the game world that let you bypass the whole leveling process so you can rush to max lvl in less than a day while making insane amounts of gold.... ya that is ridiculous. Objectively bad game design.

[@Quadromil4]

Cata classic can't go wrong. Another thing is that classic cata is aimed at more skilled players, and there are always fewer of them, but thanks to thoughtful adaptation in game mechanics, serious problems cannot arise in classic cata.

[@m0zric]

@@kuyt3400There are no objective value judgments, you pleb. Objectively bad = Objectively subjective

[@theoutlander1411]

Yeah a few QoL fixes and TBC would be great.

[@ncode7]

Honestly the latest release of SoD up to 50 just killed wow for me. Now people spam nightmare incursions instead of questing and running dungeons. Classic just became retail and I hate it. I just canceled my 3 subs 2 days ago lol. Also, I'm very salty that I haven't gotten my ZG tiger in wrath after over 200 runs and they're about to take away my chance entirely so yeah I'm fuckin done with this crap lol. GL y'all!

[@LittleJohnaton]

After 4 hours of playing the latest patch of SoD, I tried incursions, after one run I went and requested a refund for my subscription xD (NOTE: they didn't give it to me.. cunts!)

[@AverageYTcomment]

cant wait for dragonflight classic

[@PhilTruthborne]

Just a thought but what if we had a Classic+ version that contained all of the content of TBC and WotLK but having it scaled down be something akin to alternative leveling routes between, let's say, level 50 to 60 and without changing the 'vanilla feel' too much? It would be a lot of work but i'm pretty sure it would be a great way to 'save access' all of the expansions without having to host sepparate servers and would also bring a lot of fresh content to 'vanilla' expanding the end game significantly. Probably won't happen but an attuned mass-merge could be the true play some day.

[@lexiwilson9501]

Cata was never Classic.

[@frozennz1]

Cata is a classic now. It is so much better the second time around.

[@ronailberjauregui2444]

​@@frozennz1tbh, cata is pretty neat

[@Tomoyo0827]

Where does it end? Where do we draw the line? Classic Legion? Classic Shadowlands? Are we just gonna have 2 WoW chancing each others tails?

[@ronailberjauregui2444]

@@Tomoyo0827 for people that didnt play it back in time, think the line is Classic Legion

[@DanIsDaMan12]

I played Vanilla -> TBC -> WotLK as a kid growing up. I was 15 when Cataclysm came out and had been just getting good at the game finally in Wrath instead of playing like a kid just exploring. When Cata came out, my class didn't feel the same. The new zones were horribly boring. I didn't enjoy leveling the new races. I didn't really enjoy anything about it anymore. I was a huge WC3 RoC and TFT player so my conclusion to Warcraft was Wrath. I will be hanging up the towel with Classic and don't really care to continue with much seasonal content either. It's been an amazing few years but I'm happily done. Enjoy Cataclysm fellas.

[@akhsdenlew1861]

So... Level up doesn't exist anymore, BG grind doesn't exist anymore. So all we have is the emerald grind ( 1-2 days) and then 1 raid every 7 days.. Gold farm doesn't matter cus gold is irrelevant as well. Definetly not classic.

[@kairionnefarian-eu6691]

I totally think blizzard should think about era tbc & era wotlk server. The biggest reason why these days i went back to private servers was because there the game doesn't rush me to do whatever content is currently considered to be worth playing. When i was 16 i craved wow patches, since i spent all day every day in that game. But im now a grown man and i dont have the time to do the leveling and gearing ratrace only for it to be irrelevant a couple of weekly resets later. SoDs new raids would entice me, but there is no way i slog trough multiple days of a wowhead guided levelling experience just so i can start to play the game and interact with the community in a meaningful way. Only for my progress to be partially reset every time a update drops. Leveling was not a bad part of wows content 20 years ago, but having done it many times and seeing the progress done be wiped or invalidated with an ever increasing cadence is just not that fun. But then again, i am already off and commited to private servers and i won't be coming back if blizzard keeps consistently performing worse when it comes to goldsellers & botters while providing worse gm support than a bunch of fanservers hosted in a basement.

[@Necrosis88]

SoD Phase 3 is an absolute disaster 😅

[@timhenrich5698]

Honestly i like the incursions and getting lvl 50 in. A day

[@Timmahh85]

@@timhenrich5698I don’t. It’s tedious and boring after 2 runs in a group. You learn how it is, and that’s when you have learned how retail’esque it is. Also, the huge gold boost from it will now inflate our economy to ridicolous levels, just like era servers have. If they wanted to boost xp fast because of sod, then fine, give people time to enjoy classes. But don’t make it with tedious repetetive stuff that is the only way because of speed and gold, because people will go there, even if it sucks.

[@jordon_9333]

I was hoping for fresh progressive servers with cata release but no luck, sad times

[@Zajedwabisty124]

This is only work when everyone start fresh . Wotlk have fresh and everyone migrating to firemaw gehennas.

[@LinksterGames]

Cata is the first time I stopped playing WoW, I didn't return to WoW until WoD came out and we all know how that went. But Legion was super fun. I didn't experience Cata too much and honestly when it was announced my first thought was "Who asked for this?" but now I kinda want to try it out, at least for a bit just to see what it was like. Who knows, maybe I'll enjoy it this time around since I didn't play it too much. In regards to Classic Era I hope they do new progression servers at some point, I love Vanilla but I'm awake at odd hours so trying to level up on Era is like walking through a ghost town, I wouldn't even be able to find a Deadmines group. So, I'd love it if they released some Vanilla progression servers again at some point.