Willow Creek - Operations: Car Float Operations

This video provides a comprehensive look at car float operations on the Willow Creek Subdivision, including car floats in Bucky's Crossing on the main train layout and Concorde on the Concorde Branch modular layout. The video shows how the car floats are used to operationally connect the two layouts during an operating session.

[@backbonepictures78]

This is my favorite operations video hands down. Everything about it is awesome. Connecting two completely different layouts via car floats? Genius

[@Vigment13]

Glad you enjoyed the video and the car float operations scheme. The scheme served the Willow Creek and Concorde Branch well for many years. Thanks for your feedback!

[@MineMountModels]

This was an excellent presentation of model car float operations. Thank you for sharing.

[@Vigment13]

Glad you enjoyed the video. Car float operations have always been a favorite of mine; I think they add a lot to model railroad operations. Again, glad you enjoyed the presentation, and thank you for your feedback! Much appreciated.

[@HumancityJunction]

Fantastic setup and operatios scheme. How fun to transfer cars between two "layouts" via a car float.

[@brettany_renee_blatchley]

Very nice - this is just what I needed to see as I am planning a car float interchange for my compact shunting layout. 😌💜

[@Vigment13]

Glad you enjoyed the video. Hope the car float operations on the Willow Creek give you some good ideas for your own layout. Thanks for your feedback; much appreciated!

[@tomicaclive464]

@19:47 ive watched this video numerous times (very relaxing!) And had never noticed that he actually puts 7 cards in the "Departing Concorde" box :-)

[@Vigment13]

Ha. I had to watch the video again to find the 7 card flub. Amazing. You're the only individual that's pointed out that error. It appears that there's a blue Concorde Branch destined car card in the stack of 7 cards, which obviously shouldn't be there (that car and the associated car card should remain in Concorde). The tiny people of the Willow Creek Sub are pleased with your eagle-eye viewing of the video! Hope the 7-card flub doesn't mess up the relaxation you find with the video. Isn't model railroading fun?! Thanks for your feedback!

[@modelrailroader5619]

Car floats offer so much potential for operations and you have done a great job of incorporating them. Always enjoy your videos Rod. Thanks for sharing!

[@Vigment13]

You're absolutely right about the operational potential of car floats. And great scenic elements as well! Glad you enjoyed the video, and thanks for the feedback. Much appreciated!

[@johnsweigart3917]

So glad to see that the loco/train speeds are realistic and coupling does not push cars excessively.

[@Vigment13]

Thanks so much for the feedback. I'm always surprised when I get 1 or 2 questions a year from viewers asking why the trains are running so slow! Guess they want Class I mainline speeds throughout the branch and in the yards. Huh? Glad you appreciate the attempts at something more realistic. Thanks, again, for your feedback!

[@Model-Railroad-Operations]

Hello Rod, thank you for sharing the concept and realization of your Willow Creek RR, including Concorde branch, and how you have connected tose by the Car Float Operations. Very inspirational for me, as the "Concorde Branch" could be a starting point for additional modules I could built for the FREMO americaN modulers group here in Germany: two modules for the switching layout (like Concorde Branch), and one connection module set for the "Mainline" of americaN modules. Greetings, Michael

[@Vigment13]

Greetings Michael! Glad you're enjoying operations on the Willow Creek. Yes, the Concorde Branch and the car float operations have been a great way to expand the Willow Creek. As you noted, additional modules could be built to expand operations even further. Sounds like you could have a whole lot of fun creating a super operating scheme with your FREMO modules. I was in Germany earlier this summer and really enjoyed myself. Best wishes with your modular endeavors! And thanks for your feedback!

[@lexpo181]

My gosh, that's the kind of operation I do love so much! Excellent video and also pretty realistic ops session. ;)

[@Vigment13]

Glad you enjoyed the video and the car float operating scheme. It served the Willow Creek Subdivision well and made for really fun operating sessions. Thank you for your comments; much appreciated!

[@njRRtrainer]

Great job gives the RR a purpose and meaning and lot's of options thank you!

[@Vigment13]

Glad you enjoyed the video and the purpose that the car float provides. Lots of options, indeed. Thank you for your feedback!

[@Perfusionist01]

Really nice set up, fun and challenging. Your scenery is nice also. Your layout looks like a hoot to operate on.

[@Vigment13]

Thanks for the kind feedback. My team of operators seem to really enjoy the layout, both the main layout and now the Concorde Branch. Lots of fun to see a model railroad come to life! Thanks again!

[@stevenrowley8502]

Great to see some new films of this fantastic railroad..😉

[@Vigment13]

Thanks! I very much appreciate your feedback. Glad you enjoyed the video. High greens!

[@stevenrowley8502]

@@Vigment13 it's wonderful. I'm over the pond in Cornwall , England. Just dipping my toes in North American HO modelling.

[@Vigment13]

@@stevenrowley8502 Toe-dipping is perfectly acceptable! Welcome. Hope things are improving in England, coronavirus-wise; look forward to once again traveling internationally. Love the United Kingdom. Thanks, again, for your comments!

[@Mercatoyd]

Very enjoyable video. The narrated car movements enhance interest watching the operation. The easy listening music in the background ever so faint adds to the environment. I had wondered through the entire video how the cars on the car floats would actually be handled. That box used to move the cars is awesome. it's nice too as the owner you take charge of that aspect ensuring careful car handling is done. Thank you for sharing this aspect of operations on your layout.

[@Vigment13]

Glad you enjoyed the video. And glad you liked the "magic" of how the cars were swapped between the two floats. Makes for some fun operations. The 2-level boxes were a super find. Thank you for your feedback; much appreciated!

[@donaldshroyer8633]

Nice vid. Your attention to the details of the ops, including the actual physical transfer of the float cars, really made this an enjoyable watch. And the questions I did have were already answered in other comment responses. Very well done.

[@Vigment13]

Glad you enjoyed the video, and happy to hear that your questions were answered. Good to have the input of the community. Thank you for your feedback; much appreciated!

[@SpringfieldAndWestern]

Very cool ops session! Enjoyed the info regarding special car float procedures. I really thought you would be carrying the floats around the room 😅

[@Vigment13]

Glad you enjoyed the video/ops session. I originally thought about transporting the floats between locations, but some quick testing showed that as having LOTS of possible undesirable outcomes. Better safe than sorry! Thanks for viewing the Willow Creek and for your feedback. Much appreciated.

[@JoeyBPhotography]

I love this setup! The operating scheme you have looks like so much fun, thanks for sharing this! Its giving me ideas for future operations ideas to try out

[@Vigment13]

Glad you enjoyed the operating scheme. My operators really enjoy working the two layouts during a session. Thank you for your feedback!

[@אסףנוב]

This layout is awesome!!! Love your channel!

[@Vigment13]

Thank you for your feedback! And glad you're enjoying the Willow Creek. High greens!

[@JohnMullerJDGCTRy]

Thank you so much for sharing this op session. I too have floats and enjoy watching others master the moves. Oops on mine cause the operator fines and lost time.

[@Vigment13]

Glad you enjoyed the video. Car floats are definitely a lot of fun; great way to cycle cars on to and off of the layout. Hmmm...oops fines and lost time; could be a fun twist. Thanks!

[@JohnMullerJDGCTRy]

@@Vigment13 you're welcome. Some operators try to cut corners or forget the idellers and swap the float. Lunch is on them the next ops session!

[@hpept]

this is a model railroad with a purpose! great video and very inspirational.

[@Vigment13]

Glad you enjoyed the video and the operating scheme. Thanks for your feedback!

[@garybroom3967]

Another great video of operations on the Willow Creek Railroad.

[@Vigment13]

Thanks! Your feedback is much appreciated!

[@muchfunwithtrains]

Thanks. Glad to have the info on the two types of loading structures causing different switching constraints! I hadn't heard that before.

[@Vigment13]

Glad to help provide some variation in model railroad ops. Gotta keep things interesting, you know! Ha. Thanks for your feedback!

[@muchfunwithtrains]

@@Vigment13 How do you inform your crews of the particular loading procedures? Is it a card in one of the car card boxes, or a placard, or what?

[@Vigment13]

@@muchfunwithtrains Good question. The loading/unloading procedure for Bucky's Crossing is a common procedure and all of my crew have experience with it on other layouts. For the Concorde Branch, I have a laminated diagram that briefly explains the procedure if someone isn't familiar with it. I also make myself available during an op session to quickly explain the procedures if anyone has any questions.

[@user-nx8tk1pp5o]

Keep up the great work, just outstanding! Especially the operations. Amazing how much work can be done in such a relatively small area.

[@Vigment13]

Thanks for the great feedback. Car float operations always provide lots of fun operations! Glad you enjoyed the video!

[@user-nx8tk1pp5o]

@@Vigment13 Oh, and not just this one but all of your other ops videos. I manage my club's FB page and have been posting links to your videos and they are all a big hit! So far all of the videos have been linked to the Opsig FB page also.

[@Vigment13]

@@user-nx8tk1pp5o Thanks! I just happened to see this OpSIG posting on FB today and was pleasantly surprised. I hadn't seen any others. Who knows how the FB algorithm works. Ha. Glad to here that folks are enjoying the ops videos; that was my purpose in creating them -- share the fun of model railroad operations. Thanks, again for the feedback and for helping to share the fun of model railroading. Much appreciated!

[@user-nx8tk1pp5o]

@@Vigment13 I believe there a person from our NMRA club who also has permission to post links on the Opsig FB page, so there is no robot doing the postings. All "brute force" as they say. I get the FB links from another person who manages another FB page somewhere else in OH.

[@davestrains6816]

Always love your ops session. Thanks for sharing. Dave

[@Vigment13]

Happy to hear that you enjoyed this video as well. It's a lot of fun making the ops videos. Thanks for your feedback. High greens!

[@hans5814]

I like your setup and the operational videos. Good that you are back. Best whishes from Germany

[@Vigment13]

Greetings to Germany from Virginia, USA! Glad you're enjoying the videos. Model railroading has indeed been a blessing this past year! Hope you folks are starting to see a light at the end of the tunnel! Thanks for your kind feedback; much appreciated.

[@cascadesub6235]

sweet video....again love this layout...superb opps..

[@Vigment13]

Glad you enjoyed the video. Yup, lots of fun operations! High greens!

[@rjl110919581]

thank you great setup on detail operation on detail layout

[@Vigment13]

Glad you enjoyed the video and the Willow Creek Subdivision. Thanks for your feedback; much appreciated!

[@NutmegRail]

Awesome video and really nice layout(s) too!

[@Vigment13]

Glad you enjoyed the video. And thanks for the great feedback; much appreciated! Thanks!

[@jwrailve3615]

This is exactly what I’m doing with my layout!!! A rail barge from top to bottom levels, however my layout is top level a proto inspired freelance with the bottom being as close to prototype layout as possible of the Texas coast

[@Vigment13]

Wow. Congrats on implementing a super idea to move cars around. A friend of mine actually gave me the idea originally; something he'd thought of doing but never did. Sounds like the car float operation should keep things interesting on your layout. Thanks for sharing!

[@jeffmorgan1229]

Great video, just wondering, when you transfer the cars to the other side. How do make sure the cars are arranged the same way they were put on the float. Or does that matter.

[@Vigment13]

Glad you enjoyed the video. To date, I honestly haven't tried to arrange the arriving cars in the same order. I could easily do that by how I arrange the cars in the plastic box. I don't think it would make any difference in my op sessions, especially since most operators don't do any blocking of the cars when they load the car floats. But something to think about. Thanks, again, for the comments!

[@streetfightinmanrs]

I was going to ask the same question. Considering how complicated the operation already is, the time and switching moves needed to block the cars going on to floats and rearrange them when they arrive sounds like an additional level of detail.

[@Vigment13]

@@streetfightinmanrs The yardmaster at Bucky's Crossing has enough going on without worrying about blocking cars on the car float ... fortunately for me. :-) It honestly wouldn't be hard for me to set the cars in my plastic carrying boxes so that they arrive at the next port in the correct order. But remember that the loading/unloading procedures for the two ports are different, so that would really frustrate the two crews loading/unloading the floats. How to drive operators crazy! Ha. I think we'll keep things simple. Thanks for the feedback!

[@Kermondale]

Fantastic!

[@Vigment13]

Glad you enjoyed the video! Thanks!

[@giuseppearditi7963]

Bellissimo molto interessante le manovre sono precise e realistiche veramente eccezionale

[@Vigment13]

Grazie! Sono contento che il video ti sia piaciuto. (Per il mio traduttore google.)

[@beeble2003]

Bit of a nitpick follows, but I do like your layout and videos a lot, which is why I've watched almost all of them! I don't think you followed your rules when you loaded the float at BC. At 21:50, you have two cars fully on the far track of the float and none on the near track. Then, at 21:04, you have two-and-a-half cars on the near track and only one on the far track. I assume you did it this way to centre the float's load fore-and-aft as well as balance it side-to-side, which would be important. As far as I can see, it's not possible to maintain both forms of balance if you're loading the float by pushing a string of cars onto it -- you'd have to use the idler car to spot the first car loaded onto the float, then use it again to spot the second and third cars, and then you'd be able to load the fourth, fifth and sixth as a string. That would be very time-consuming with the track arrangement you have. Also, I don't think you should be using a gon full of rock as the idler car at Concorde -- wouldn't that be almost as heavy as one of those switchers?

[@Vigment13]

Ah ... someone looking at details! I love it. The dynamics of loading a car float are very complicated and we're obviously not going to deal with every aspect on a model railroad. The primary concern for the model railroad (at Bucky's Crossing) from an operating perspective is how many cars are sitting on the two tracks after the switcher pulls the other cars off the float; the count of cars remaining on the car float on the two tracks doesn't differ by more than one car. When the switcher is loading/unloading cars and the string of cars spans the car float, float apron, and the shoreline/terra firma, that in and of itself provides some stability to the float operation (as discussed in the ops at Concorde). The "rule" of keeping the number of cars on the two tracks differing by only one car, gives operators more challenge rather than simply dumping or picking up a string of cars in one move. Keeps things more interesting during op sessions. As for the gon at Concorde, I should probably replace it with another flat car, but I didn't have one available at the time of construction; hence the gon. I'd have to do some research regarding the weights that you mentioned. Seems to me, though, that finding a flat car would be a better use of my time. :-) Thanks for your thoughts about the car float ops. You've obviously given this some thought! High greens!

[@beeble2003]

@@Vigment13 An EMD SW1200 is 245,000lbs; Union Pacific's website says the max gross weight of a 52-foot gondola is 263,000-286,000lbs. Your rock gon probably weighs quite a bit less than the max but it's not going to be light. UP car data: www.up.com/customers/all/equipment/descriptions/gondolas/index.htm

[@Stussmeister]

Very interesting. The folks at my model railroad club suggested I use a car float on my (future) home layout, yet while I have an interchange track, I won't have room for any nearby bodies of water on which to put a car float. I'm wondering, then, what I should do in this situation.

[@Vigment13]

I'm not sure how much space you have. If you have space for a couple of tracks, you could easily model a car float operation. At the 8:52 minute time mark in the video, you'll see that the car float at Concorde doesn't take up any more room that 2 tracks. A simple retaining wall, and then the car float apron and float itself rather than ground and ballast under the tracks, models the car float operation. If you don't have even that much space, perhaps you simply have a single track in a yard that you designate as the place cars are parked waiting to be switched on a car float; the float itself doesn't have to really exist. Then you could simply remove those cars from the yard track by hand and exchange them with new cars as if a car float had arrived and has been unloaded back onto that same yard track. It would be an operation similar to what you might do with an interchange track. Sort of a fiddle yard type of scenario except that you're designating it as a car float operation. Maybe that will give you some ideas. Hope this helps. Best wishes!

[@Stussmeister]

@@Vigment13 Thank you very much for your response. I have room for seven tracks in my yard (one long siding and six shorter ones), and figure I can use the longest siding (about 3 feet long) as my interchange track. I also plan on either getting a display case or shelf to store cars off the layout.

[@Vigment13]

@@Stussmeister I use an inexpensive clear plastic 5-drawer container on wheels, available from Sterilite. It rolls under my layout and I simply pull it out and move cars from my car float into one of the empty drawers, and then take cars from another drawer and place them back on the car float to simulate an arriving float. Each drawer easily holds 6 40-foot cars. The Sterilite drawers cost less than $20 US. Just a thought.

[@hangarflying]

Great work! Do you add any time delay before switching cars, or do you just account for how long it takes you to physically walk between layouts?

[@Vigment13]

Great question. I do not add any time delay. It takes me a bit of time to load the car floats, making sure that all of the "arriving cars" are put on the float tracks properly; no derails allowed. So however long it takes me to do my "departures" and "arrivals" is what I go with. Thanks for the feedback and the question!

[@NewHavenRails]

I will be running a car float as well. What type of plastic box did you use? Just curious where you purchased it. Great video!

[@Vigment13]

Glad you enjoyed the video. My plastic carrying boxes: Sterilite 14228604 Stack & Carry 2 Layer Handle Box

[@drewhuff3457]

What would be a good fast clock for passenger service on a HO scale layout? To set arrival and departure times between stations. I know running trains slower helps with it. Just trying to figure out a good time system.

[@Vigment13]

I recommend you experiment with various fast time ratios in order to see what works best on your layout. On the Willow Creek, I settled for a 4:1 ratio. So, 15 real minutes equated to 1 fast-clock hour. Switching of a passenger car into or out of a train at one of your stations enroute will also take a chunk of time especially using a fast clock, so that will add nicely to your schedule run. And don't forget to have your passenger train stop at a station enroute for several real minutes. Passengers need time to get on and off your train. Even having a train sit for 1 real minute adds 4 fast clock minutes to your schedule if you're using a 4:1 ratio. Do some experimentation and see what works best for you. Hope this helps.

[@drewhuff3457]

Really appreciate it. Great advice. Sounds like a great system.

[@giulius7176]

Really enjoyed this Op Session!! Would like to know where you got the gear detail parts for the pontoon float bridge?

[@Vigment13]

Glad you enjoyed the video. The gear detail parts ("float bridge winch set") came from Frenchman River Model Works. They and Seaport Model Works carry some great detail parts for float bridges, docks, car floats, etc. Frenchman River Model Works even has a complete pontoon transfer bridge kit. Enjoy!

[@giulius7176]

@@Vigment13 thanks so much. I thought they might be from Frenchman. I’ll check them out. I have two car floats and float bridge kit. Looking forward to building my own New York harbor layout!!!!

[@Vigment13]

@@giulius7176 WOW! New York harbor. That should be fun. Best wishes!

[@josephcosta5161]

Can you tell me we're you bout your car float? I can't find any but Walters.. great layout by the way, joe

[@Vigment13]

Glad you enjoyed the Willow Creek. The car float in Bucky's Crossing is from Frenchman River Model Works. It looks like they've changed their offerings, but check them out. It's a resin model. Most of my ship building / detail pieces came either from Frenchman River Model Works or Sea Port Model Works. Hope you find what you're looking for.

[@Vigment13]

In case I didn't mention it in the video, the car float on the Concorde Branch module was scratch built. Again, most of the parts came from Frenchman Model Works or Sea Port Model Works.

[@Perfusionist01]

Quick question - your FM H-10-44 seems to be from the 2nd run (boxed as Walthers/Proto). It seems to run well. Do you like it? I see one on eBay am and tempted, but it's a bit pricey.

[@Vigment13]

Good eye. Yes, the switcher is a Proto 2000; I have 2 of them. Purchased in 2009 & 2010; price $199 and $170 new. I replaced the Quantum decoders with ESU LokSound decoders, which I felt had better sounds and ran better. Hope that helps.

[@Vigment13]

I forgot to answer your question: Yes, I do like the switcher. The spacing between the trucks makes this a nice running switcher in a yard that has #4 turnouts, for example. The motor and gear mechanism is very good. And I like that it's not your standard EMD type of switcher; something different to look at.

[@IronHorseRailways]

I must ask, how do you folks simulate the "time scale"? Obviously we're not setting off at 2am!

[@Vigment13]

During our operating sessions, I use a fast clock running at a 4:1 ratio. Op sessions typically run about 3 hours in length (12 fast-hours). I do not vary the lighting on the layout during that time; simply use the fast-clock to have operators handle scheduled trains and car float runs. (On the main train layout, the signals are controlled via optical sensors, so the room lighting needs to stay fully on.) Honestly, operators don't pay attention to whether it's 2am or 2pm on the clock. On the 12 fast-hour schedule, we run from midnight to noon on one session, and then noon to midnight on the subsequent session. Hope that answers your question, and thanks for asking. High greens!

[@IronHorseRailways]

@@Vigment13 it does thank you! We don't have anything like this here In the UK - it's a shame because it's a lot of fun running operations sessions, even simpler ones such as the ones I run on my layout. Thanks again!

[@MarkInLA]

I may not be the first to bring this up, but: Instead of leaving floats where they are and just transferring cars across the room, bench to bench, could you design a cover which lightly clamps cars to float tracks and carry entire floats, layout to layout, leaving only 'water' where floats were. This, IF POSSIBLE to develop, would be easier to operate and more realistic as well... This is my one and only criticism of the WCR ! It's in fact MY KIND of MRR; looking/running GREAT, and filled with Ops same as the 1:1 scale !! Mark, Los Angeles

[@Vigment13]

That's a very good idea. Too bad that the Concorde Branch wasn't thought of when the main layout was built. The car float at Bucky's Crossing is fixed in place, physically and scenery wise, so a physical transfer to Concorde just isn't going to happen. Now, looking at the model railroading aspects of the idea, it's always a challenge to get the tracks of the car float aligned with those of the float bridge. If one has a float that moves between locations, you'd need to make sure the tracks align perfectly at both bridges and on both floats. Not impossible, but definitely a challenge. Again, because the two layouts were built more than 10 years apart, that's a challenge that the Willow Creek won't be taking on. But still a good idea. If that's your only criticism of the Willow Creek, then we're in great shape! :-) Glad you enjoyed the video as well as ops on the Willow Creek. And thanks for your great idea and feedback! Much appreciated!

[@Vigment13]

I forgot to mention ... you are the first individual to suggest this sort of transfer scheme with the cover for the car float. Again, great idea.

[@tomstarcevich1147]

Nice but weather your freight cars 🚂🚃🚃👍

[@raymondaten2179]

As efficient as tour railroad runs, hope you pay the workers well otherwise they might unionize. Lol, hope you like the joke.

[@Vigment13]

The Tiny People of the Willow Creek are actually profit sharers, and they love it. I'm not sure if they've figured out that the railroad isn't making a profit, but when it does, they get to share in it. Ha! Enjoyed the joke. Thanks!