Winchester-Hotchkiss M1879 & M1883 Bolt Actions

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Intro music by Dylan Benson - dbproductioncom...
The US military experimented almost continuously with new repeating rifles between the end of the US Civil War and the beginning of the 20th century, and the rifles submitted for testing are a fascinating spectrum of ideas. Many were purchased in relatively small quantities for military field testing, and many also saw at least some commercial production (as the manufacturers and inventors sought to recoup development costs when full-scale military contracts proved elusive).

[@thegoldencaulk2742]

I hope you revisit this gun some day

[@DoctyrEvil]

Ambidextrous controls! Also, that receiver shape looks suspiciously like it was designed around existing Winchester tooling. It has that classic Winchester shape. That specimen is in wonderful shape.

[@3ducs]

The lever on the right is the magazine cut-off, the one on the left is the safety.

[@zacharyrollick6169]

I wouldn't be surprised if they started with a blank forging from one of the lever guns.

[@baneofbanes]

That receiver on the first one looks extremely similar to ones often seen on lever actions, which makes sense honestly.

[@garycorbier9123]

How did the Trapdoor ever beat this? Sounds like the Army was more interested in saving ammo than having a up to date Rifle

[@FantadiRienzo]

What a beauty. It's on my list on "guns I'd like to shoot one day (but never will)" now...

[@zacharyrollick6169]

Just found one of the 1879 ones at a small town gunshop. Amazing condition, with sling and bayonet. They want $2500 for it.

[@XaviarJS]

The late designed one, looks like Winchester lever gun mated with a Mosin nagant

[@jacobotoupal8865]

It does ha

[@ronmartin3755]

This gun was designed in 1876 to 1878. The Russian rifle the Mosin Nagant has an Action and Bolt just like the Hotchkiss! The Mosin Nagant was supposedly designed or was a combination design of two men in around 1890. Its' production began in 1891 hence it's model number. Sergei Mosin and Leo Nagant, each designed a rifle to get Russia's military to use their rifles as the main battle rifle of Russia! It is very clear the Mosin Nagant action and bolt is a pretty close copy of the Winchester Hotchkiss rifle's action and bolt. Russia has been known to copy the things other countries made first! I think the real designer of the AK 47 wasn't Kalashnikov it was Hugo Schmeiser. The German who designed the STG 44.

[@ronmartin3755]

@@pacman10182 Maybe you should do a little research as I did on this subject. You might be surprised at what you find! And don't stop with just one bit of information. Read all you can find out about this. Schmeisser was captured at the end of the war and taken to Russia. He was forced to work in an armory. The same one Kalashnikov was at. And believe it or not, the operating systems are very similar! Don't just fire back a message to me telling me how wrong I am. Do yourself a favor and really do some real research.

[@ronmartin3755]

@@pacman10182 Well Tyler I am saddened to find out you know everything and I know nothing! Since you seem intent on a continuing argument about this I will simply stop responding to you in the hope that you stop as well? How about it?

[@tylerroberts1821]

@@ronmartin3755 how about you tell me how I'm wrong instead of blocking like a little bitch

[@Treblaine]

That's a really nice elegant design, gets around the problem of the need for a lifter arm.

[@troy9477]

I definitely prefer the 2 piece stock on a rifle like that. Makes sense. Interesting design. It's fascinating to see how many different directions the designers went back then. There was no dogma and no standard way. Lot of good experimentation.

[@Sailor_Tom]

Beautiful rifle, I would give my eyeteeth for one of them. Thank you for sharing and worsening my love for these old firearms!

[@slaughterhound8793]

Everyone is saying that it looks like a mating of a Winchester and a Mosin-Nagant, well that may be true, but it looks like a Lebel is in there somewhere too.

[@vrisbrianm4720]

Well now you got one, Ian. Congratulation!

[@cmh1984]

Every time I watch one of your videos, I end up adding something else to my list. I actually just managed an M-47 Madsen last weekend. This Winchester Hotchkiss, however, will most likely end up much higher in the list!

[@MrGunsplosion101]

Love the intro

[@hakimmic]

Thanks for these interesting videos.

[@militaryhistoryIG]

The Model 2 (M1881) is an interesting mix, they kept the single piece stock but moved the magazine cuttoff up onto the receiver in a safety like lever format. Trials determined that the recoil combined with cavalry use resulted in cracked single piece stocks, regardless the changes. Still, the Navy ordered 999 for trials and kept them in the white, which has a neat appearance.

[@glasshammer52]

I like the new intro segment.

[@davidtong2776]

I wish that you do a loading and shoot off between the Korpatschet 1885 and the Winchester-Hotchkiss, 1883 it would be interesting to see how these two guns would have done in a head to head. I enjoy your videos and learn a lot watching them.

[@Nathaniel_F]

Great new intro!

[@tedhubertcrusio372]

Kid: I wanna have a Lebel Mom: We have a Lebel at home... Lebel at home: *Hotchkiss 1879*

[@missingthe80s58]

It's amusing how many of these trials rifles are essentially Trapdoor parts slapped to various receivers. Butt plates, barrels, barrel bands and retainers, sights, stock cap and cleaning rods, all very clearly Trapdoor.

[@alcedob.5850]

I love you can tell it is a winchester product by design

[@dscrappygolani7981]

Absolutely Gorgeous!

[@strategicconsensus]

"What does it take to get invited to the RIA auctions?" I'm guessing really awesome hair. :)

[@AkashTarafder]

Looks like a Mosin's bolt. Well, how to put this thing on safe ? Just like a mosin I think.

[@sharpie443]

I wish someone would make a reproduction of that gun.

[@RedXlV]

Probably too obscure for there to be enough of a market, unfortunately.

[@ronmartin3755]

You can send messages to the Italian gun makers and maybe one of them will make one. They are making a lot of reproduction guns of the US.

[@peterkerr4019]

what an amazing idea for its time.

[@srvanddt1]

The bolt action lever gun! LOL! Cool looking gun though!

[@FlankerTanker]

looks like a nice hunting rifle - but not sure it's got to look for military use.. love your videos - thanks

[@3ducs]

A local shop just brought in two of these, I haven't seen them though.

[@Jarod-te2bi]

1:30 these men had children who then her grandchildren, who then grew up and thought that warfare would only have long-range missiles, not dogfighting, and then designed F4 phantoms without a gun.

[@TheBehm08]

Remember when the military standard rifle was 45-70 (similar to 500 S&W today)?

[@dscotia]

Such a beautiful action, especially when you consider it was designed in 1876

[@deucedeuce1572]

Damn, just saw someone shoot a newer version of one, but still have the butt stock damaged from firing it. Never realized that was a thing, because I didn't think most guns would have enough power to damage the stock without damaging your shoulder first.

[@pelonehedd7631]

When You say You would like to add one to Your collection , how would You go about doing that? I love these old guns and its a shame that when there are not that many that someone is not making reliable reproductions. How Much do originals cost. Scaled down 22 versions might spark youth interest and adult.

[@imawreck6586]

Found one with missing parts and a cracked stock for 600 on gunsinternational just last week, also have seen a couple listings on gunbroker. Always a good idea to keep an eye on local gunstores inventory

[@alaskanbullworm5500]

wouldn't surprise me if these were the same officers that passed up the lewis gun 30 years later.

[@merlemorrison482]

Thank you. What does it take to get invited to the RIA auctions?

[@Jarod-te2bi]

1:30 this don’t change the statue quo mentality has not gone away

[@Panzerzimmerpflanze]

Bolt looks a ton like the Gew 71/84's bolt. I guess that was the trend at the time though.

[@KowboyUSA]

If he believes we all may have a chance to collect one they must be more available than I would've guessed.

[@lmomechtech7709]

It appears to me that the bolt/receiver has the looks of the Mosin-nagant of Russia era...hmmmmm...very nice video.

[@sionsoschwalts2762]

Why have I never heard of this?

[@davidcarr7436]

So I'm watching this 7 years later. Did you ever get one for yourself Ian?

[@ericbailey6209]

Correct me if i'm wrong; However, is this "Bolt"&"Action", where Maj. Mosin and Mr. Nagant ""contracted"" their idea for the 1891 Dragoon and ALL Model's of 1891 Mosin-Nagant 7.62x54R Thereafter ??

[@jaysbob]

The bolt design looks remarkably similar to the Mosin Nagant. Is there a reason for this? I did some looking around but couldn't find anything specific.

[@allangibson2408]

Look up the Berdan I & II that preceded the Mosin Nagant. The Berdan’s were a US rifle design.

[@ExciteMike69]

​@Allan Gibson & @jaysbob Thank you for the same question I had and for new info I didn't know

[@kenhelmers2603]

Looks to be a nice rifle :)

[@kevinoliver3083]

Benjamin Hotchkiss did not design the eponymous machine gun. He died four years before Baron Adolf Odkolek von Újezd patented the concept which Hotckiss et Cie would develop into a mature weapon.

[@puppetmasterman93]

its like a cross between a 1894 winchester and a M91 mosin-nagant XD

[@Driendel]

Imagine getting the bullet stuck in that tube mag...

[@panrandom2127]

Fun fact u can fit mosin nagant bayonet on this rifle

[@m2hmghb]

Does anyone else see the similarities that the bolt has when compared with the Mosin Nagant bolt?

[@nutz4gunz457]

Yea that was the first thing I noticed

[@kingkong-qt7nm]

the first one was made out a french Chassepot rifle

[@vaselivitch]

the bolt kinda reminds me of the mosin nagant bolt.

[@imbored742]

I suppose the 1878 trials just go to show that there is nothing new under the sun. When have the brass ever been comfortable with new technologies?

[@MrReded69]

I believe the 1878 trials only happened because of the Big Horn/Greasy Grass battle and the fact that so much public blame was heaped upon the old Trapdoor Springfield single shot. Still there were a lot of good solid designs (including Lee's first model box magazine repeaters)but it didn't matter as the Army couldn't afford to adopt any of them. I'm sure the Army brass went in acting interested and polite but knowing the government would never give them enough money to adopt any repeater in enough numbers to equip even the small regular army at the time. Its all about the money and at the time the Army was so poor that it limited each soldier to less than 20 live rounds per month for target practice.

[@francis9469]

enlighten me, on your new intro, is that an MKB 42 you guys are shooting 0.06 seconds in?

[@ForgottenWeapons]

It's a (reproduction) Gerat 06H, aka StG45.

[@francis9469]

Forgotten Weapons sweet thanks =)

[@thefz1rider]

The bolt looks like a Mosin Negant bolt.

[@andreasbrandstetter9221]

bolt looks very similar to a mosin nagant...

[@trey1531]

Does anyone know if it's ok to shoot one of these with a cracked stock? I have the first model and I really want to shoot it.

[@dexaphobia8085]

Commission a gunsmith or carpenter to make a replacement stock. If the crack isn’t that bad then I’m sure it’d be fine, but better to be safe than sorry. Also remember to use low powered ammunition, this was probably chambered for black powder not nitro powder.

[@rev2it]

the bolt looks alot like a moisin

[@commoncriminal923]

OIIII

[@seductivesnake1]

such a huge resemblance to a mosin bolt and action

[@Bones6987]

That’s a Mosin Nagant bolt all day long 😊