WINNING WITH EVERY SPY ft. RED! Deceive Inc

[@thehunter5475]

one thing that i have heard the developers talk about, and which would help the vultruing problem a lot is drastically reducing the distance at which gunshots can be heard. Especially the "silenced" weapons. So you wont have the whole map converging to one spot as soon as one shot gets fired.

[@moonflowerpalace3872]

So Squire's W1 and all of Larcin's Guns?

[@murilolealdesouza813]

@@moonflowerpalace3872 I mean if silenced weapons became good it could be a way to buff some agent's worst weapons by giving them that upside

[@moonflowerpalace3872]

@@murilolealdesouza813 I get that, but which ones would those be?

[@murilolealdesouza813]

@Moon Flower Palace I'm not the best to answer this question because I haven't unlocked every weapon yet, but from my experience madame xiu's first weapon doesn't feel that great, same thing with reds shotgun, these are the ones I could remember rn there are probably better examples though

[@Luci-pz8xx]

They should be limited if they are in a room or building. If they are shooting out in the open then everyone outside should be able to hear it. It would encourage players to stalk their targets and get them alone instead of just going in blasting.

[@shabaz697]

This game is so addicting. Most fun I’ve had playing a game in a good minute.

[@ravelia8601]

I bought the game thanks to True too~

[@alysondavy2485]

Getting into cover instantly after killing someone just defeats the purpose of being stealthy, be aware of your surroundings and knowing when to pick fights, plus characters that have skills centered around stealth (Madame Xiu, Larcin and Red) would just be worthless. The game would just devolve into being an fps free for all. Maybe just make so that the shots aren't quite as loud would alleviate this issue, but I don't see how getting into cover immediately after a kill would make the game better.

[@GeneralArmchair]

The devs have talked about testing a system where you get your cover back from recovering the spy pack, which I think is a good middle ground. Simply getting it back for free simply for winning the gun fight is way too far and spits in the face of the scoundrel characters. But getting it from the spypack means that you can dodge the vultures who would catch you would otherwise be stuck dealing with the guards. If the situation is too exposed that you can't even loot the body, then you should have thought twice about pulling the trigger in the first place.

[@TrU3Ta1ent]

It actually is exactly a system of stealth. Not sure how getting I to cover defeats a system of stealth lol

[@Mizuna752]

Except all of those characters skills are intended to help if you are mid fight. Adding in getting back cover post kill in no way makes those characters worthless.

[@bh0llar702]

Stealth means nothing when you do everything right and you still get screwed. They're are many times where true says he should have done something better

[@bronze5548]

​@@TrU3Ta1entBecause it doesn't make sense, how would anyone be able to get into cover when there are witnesses actively seeing it happen? It doesn't, now if they implemented making it so you gain cover as long as no one is around instantly then that makes sense. But please explain how getting into cover immediately when there are witnesses makes sense to you? That's like saying a gunman can actively shoot in a crowd and somehow not be seen by the multitude of people still alive, watching them run away. Make it make sense

[@Cazobi]

Vulture word count - 384

[@endorb]

The vulturing is, in my opinion, a symptom of a bigger issue I've noticed in the game: there's not really many options for the players who don't want to get into a gunfight. When I first played it on the free weekend, I was having a really really bad day for firefights and just lost basically all of them. I'd love them to add, say, a tool that lets you subtly soften your foes, such as poisoning the food. The stealth feels a little thin when it's almost always just going to lead to a standard gunfight + 1 character ability per player.

[@Btoast45]

Gotta disagree with tru3 here with the instant cover. Spies in movies would locate a target, isolate them, and then take them out and escape. Adding his addition would would make the gameplay less sophisticated because you are removing a layer from the gameplay (that layer being escaping). You need to pick a good time to engage and have an escape plan in mind. He says the game will die if the addition doesn’t happen. Maybe it’ll die on his channel or for him. And if he wants to go play another game with fps like apex (he mentioned), he should go do it. But I have yet to see that happen, mostly because this game has other elements that make it unique compared to other games. Heat needs buff for sure, guards should give you heat but not that much unless you don’t gain heat from killing them while out of cover. A fix to the third partying, on the technical side, would honestly maybe just have less players and the sound suppression i see people talking about. Peace out

[@GeneralArmchair]

His trigger finger is too itchy and he leans too heavily on the fact that his aim is insanely good. A lot of his vulturing problem stems from the fact that he'll go "that's a spy *BLAM BLAM BLAM*" instead of first stalking the opponent into a position where he'll have them dead to rights for a quick execution. The hastily taken fights last longer and give vultures time to arrive. I don't remember the last time that he opened out of stealth with a charged melee. It's just straight to the shooting. Even when he "vultures" he doesn't vulture. He'll see two people fighting and jump right in to make it an FFA brawl instead of patiently executing the bloodied victor. Strategic mistakes that he gets away with since his aim is head and shoulders over most of his foes. If anything needs to change, I think that the spy pack should be more potent and better reset you between fights. Maybe an outright full heal and cover from the spypack so that the reward for winning a fight is resetting to be prepared for another fight, but I think that you must be in a position where you can actually loot the body.

[@TrU3Ta1ent]

I've chatted to the devs about this and full health on spy pack is one of the worst ideas as it will turn the game into a fps rush simulator. As you can reset after every kill. Going back in cover with low health after a fight is way more sophisticated, the devs agree.

[@endorb]

@@TrU3Ta1ent Full health does indeed seem like a bad idea. If they wanted to go that direction of making it harder to secure the kill, I'd say make it a temporary damage resistance that ends early if you fire your gun - something that lets you survive a persuit, but doesn't let you go and KO the next target

[@MonteChopsMoney]

I don’t know about the instant cover because some spy guns are better than others but I believe further spawn points and not being able to hear the gun fights at far distances will work forsure.

[@yearofthebat]

Wish they would change up the guards for the briefcase area or something, since the only multi-useful disguise is the guard -access green rooms -access blue rooms -access suitcase building Wish the guard design was stricter so it'd make spies have to change outfits more often

[@H0rstHantelbank]

I think the game should be more spread out. Meaning spawn points. Maybe +1 Objective. So not all players sit on top of each other from the get go. That would fix a lot of the early madness that often happens

[@brianestepa2376]

yea i wanna see bigger maps in the future for this reason

[@zayenlancer]

I’d suggest you upload some of the losses as well so that we can learn a thing or two.

[@weareusmain]

The idea of insta-cover upon killing a spy isn't a bad idea because it won't work, but because it won't have the effect you think it will. Currently, if you take a fight, you're accepting the risk that you might get gunned down for being so gung-ho--whatever your reason for shooting first--if you can't get back into cover quickly. Your idea will nullify all risk of initiating a gunfight, so long as you win. Surely you can guess what happens when there is no drawback to getting into gunfights? Freebies that remove the capacity for skill expression are never a good idea--DBD has proven that beyond the shadow of a doubt. If you want to suggest something to the developers as a solution, take these: - Instead of free cover, upon picking up the enemy's kit box, cover recovery speed is boosted and cover is fortified for 10 seconds. [Fortified cover allows a disguise to take a single hit (from weapons and gadgets alike) without breaking.] - Hostile guards apply increasing stacks of heat on all exposed spies in an area around them. The stacking increases further for each guard that is actively hostile in the area. Killing a guard incurs a burst of heat on every spy in the area, but reduces the stacking over time accordingly. ["Hostile" in this case does not apply to guards warning disguised spies about being in the wrong area. It only applies to guards actively seeking and/or shooting spies not in disguise. And, yes, the aoe burst of heat is applied to disguised spies, but the amount this burst applies will be small and, if possible, blocked by line-of-sight.]

[@bh0llar702]

I agree with true. Make the heat matter and straight into cover after a kill. It would instantly improve the game. Now that more people are playing and getting better it turns super random after a big vulcher fest

[@moonflowerpalace3872]

You want to make Red and Squire even more busted? Also no one is getting punished this way and ruins the point of Larcin and Xiu.

[@endorb]

between this stream and the match being uploaded the devs did say they were going to make the spy cache (that drops when you KO someone) grant cover, and they were going to make heat more intense. Whether they're listening to Tru3 or just on his wavelength, he's getting approximately what he wants

[@allengies9821]

How about a cover-recovery system based on the current phase of the game? 100 percent for the first third, spies instantly get cover when they grab a fallen spy-pack. 75 percent for the second third, spies can get cover quickly if they also act quickly. And then 50 percent recovery during the last third? That way tension and danger would increase as the game progresses until, as appropriate to a spy thriller, there is one final shootout just before the escape?

[@bh0llar702]

It's not about what true wants, but yah I understand what your saying. It just makes sense to the IP. Otherwise it's no longer a spy game with fps elements. It's fps with spy elements

[@moonflowerpalace3872]

@@allengies9821 With Blue Cover chip, that 50% is still 100%.

[@TakariCritic]

The counter to vultures are more cowards like me who are terrified to enter into firefights and avoid them as much as possible

[@sweenbean18]

complains about vultures whilst also vulturing

[@TrU3Ta1ent]

Yup, because I'm not talking about people doing it, I'm talking about it being an issue. You don't see the difference?

[@Scyclo]

i dont think them making cover come back immediately after killing a rival will be base. if anything it would be for a new scoundrel passive EDIT: thinking on the subject, if they added instant cover restoration base kit, it would more than likely indirectly buff scoundrel agents, which currently cant really last that long due to the vulture problem. the only scoundrel that has a chance at getting away from a fight would probably be Madam Xiu due to her immediately being able to retreat to an NPC and escape. red has a decent chance too, but red and larcin fall behind xiu currently with being able to escape, larcin does have the invisibility but it doesnt last that long. and while red can immediately get her cover back, most of her ability is combat oriented.

[@colbypeacock4611]

most high level players agree when u start this game you run and gun cuz ur clueless, then you start trying to do the spy thing, then u just start run and gun. not sying its good just what ive seen. the most common gadget set up is umbrella bounce pad while running round and just ignoring the spy element, its sad i like the game

[@amtrent123]

I think regaining cover after recovering a spypack could be a good idea, but it would be very hard to impliment a system where people would be disensentivized from vulturing. Removing an enemy spy from the game greatly increases your win chances if youre a good player, where the only reason to not try to vulture is through sheer distance, how open an area is to yourself being third partied without an escape, and your own technical skill. Having more spies in game during the case sequence does bring the highest highs though, and of course deduction is an incredibly enjoyable aspect of the game. Ive started just letting players walk away if theyre being incredibly obvious, and maybe giving them a slap on the butt with a bullet from a distance to remind them theyre not alone out there.

[@GeneralArmchair]

The last dev lives stream had them say that they were testing a system where you can get cover back upon picking up the spypack. I think that this is a good middle ground. If you're too exposed to loot the body, then that's either your punishment for being caught out of position in a sour spot in the first place or punishment for having too itchy of a trigger finger that you couldn't wait for a better moment to strike.

[@TrU3Ta1ent]

Been chatting to them on and off we have similar minds, I see a bright future for the game. But it's a small team, so people will need patience.

[@yuichikita6018]

Maybe they could make it so that entering cover is naturally really fast (like 1~3 seconds) but after being uncovered for wharever reason there's a small time frame where you cant enter into cover (like 5~10 seconds). So, if you choose to enter a fight with someone and then you win (the fight will probably take around 5~10 seconds, long enough for the timeframe to end) and get third partied, you can choose to run away, hide and enter cover really fast. Also getting uncovered for wharever reason will be more punishing since you'll be vulnerable to attack for 5~10 seconds.

[@semblance6600]

A change as simple as a spy package activating immediately on kill would solve a lot of these issues

[@UKRobs]

I don’t know why a lot of people are adamant to defend the fps side of the game with the sentiment “the devs said this is an fps primarily” which I find hard to understand, if the game sticks to being fps sided it will die way faster because why would people want this to be the game they choose to play when it comes to fps/extraction shooter, games like Tarkov do what this game does fps wise waaaay better they should cater to people who want heavy deduction, deceiving and looting with a side of first person that rewards good aim but isn’t the intended way to win a game.

[@starscout123]

I think your change might be a good change. what do you think if they shorted the time to kill. I feel like that would make people want to play much more stealthy and if you did findsomeone instead of a 10s fight it be like 3. like everyone is down in 2-3 hits. quick kills and really needed to stay hidden I think is more spy like.

[@TurtleKnite]

This is the real answer tbh. Nerf shield into the ground and lower TTK by a small amount and third parties wont have as much time to close in on a fight, giving you the ability to get cover back, but still having a purpose for the stealth/disengage gadgets and expertises. Lowering TTK does require a pretty significant rework of the guns so its not actually just an easy thing to turn a dial and implement but it would fix the problem without just pushing people into the Vanguard Classes all the time. Edit: Id like to add, shield nerf is necessary because it causes fights to drag. The longer fights are prolonged the more third parties become a concern. It is healthier for the game if defensive gadgets are things that let you get away, re-disguise, and then re-engage on better terms than if they just straight give you a tactical advantage with no setup time. Also just in general, stealth game with a very high TTK is a weird combo because it means the punishment for breaking stealth and being spotted isnt huge. The faster you die, the more important it is to be the one who has the drop on your opponent, the important blending in becomes.

[@ultralord6216]

I think you want it to be way to sophisticated and causals won’t get into it if you turn it so competitively pushed my opinion

[@TrU3Ta1ent]

Disagree

[@sarahbanks1527]

What do you mean by vulturing?

[@thebetoz1]

He means people waiting for other spies to kill each other, then they kill the winner of a fight that is probably wounded and then they take all the loot, but this is usually a chain reaction, vulturing is actually a good tactic right now, I won team games where im in a Duo vs a lot of trios with this.

[@sarahbanks1527]

@@thebetoz1 oh I agree. I’m not sure why it would be a bad thing

[@binzc3052]

maybe after you kill someone ur weapon goes on cooldown? but idk how you'd defend urself..

[@corvidreactor7356]

That would only encourage third partying more, since you know your opponent won’t be able to protect themselves. I don’t think there’s any way to spin having a weapon cooldown into being fun.

[@binzc3052]

@@corvidreactor7356 yeah that’s the thing idk how they’d defend but u right… there’s always something 🙄

[@endorb]

my idea is a tempoary damage-taken reduction that goes away early when you fire your gun. It is focused buffing on the player who's vulnerable instead of nerfing the people who'd attack them.

[@binzc3052]

@@endorb okay okay okay okay okay 📝📝📝

[@binzc3052]

@@endorb that actually makes sense as that would allow for the ppl with the buff to run away and anyone caught running after them would be exposed…

[@Rescultir]

The only time I engage with anyone early in a match, especially 30 seconds in, is if I seen a Lacin in the lobby. I find them to be more of a threat near the end of the match so that's my reward for exposing myself I think the people that are mad at your idea are probably the fools from DBD. This game would definetly benefit from instant cover.

[@thebetoz1]

On a second thought, truetalent idea might not be that bad, chain reaction is too common right now, I mean, it's always great when you are more patient than the rest but still. I think it would help the game to be more Decieve Inc and less Fronite.

[@KuroNeKitsu]

Yeah i'm watching this game and i don't get it. If shroud would play it he could just run around,rush objective and if anyone tries to shoot him he would just do 360 no scope and kill cuz there wouldn't be competition. I don't rly see why wouldn't you be able to do that.

[@TrU3Ta1ent]

Nah

[@khorneschosen7561]

Sheesh......

[@abadger6139]

I understand vulturing is a problem but have to admit watching this was hard as the video was 95% you complaining with nothing else interesting happening. You didn't even win this game with any particular amount of skill it was just you being in the right places at the right time. I would've imagined a series based on winning with each character you'd at least talk about what choices you made with skills, equipment and field upgrades to compliment the character. It's same reason I stopped watching your DBD content as a lot of the time it was just you complaining about the game being survivor sided with the footage just being regular Killer gameplay (This was ages ago btw don't know if you've changed with the DBD content) My opinion on this would be to at least watch what your uploading once even if you just skim through it and ask yourself, would I sit down and watch this?

[@MonteChopsMoney]

Same bro he was kinda making me mad cus he put me on this game but most of the video you are complaining. Every shooter and BR had vultures. They are gonna fix it I’m sure but talking about it 24/7 is gonna kill the game. He had thousands of people watching this like I said he put me on this game don’t make us hate the game. Plus his late kill was a vulture 😂