Adaptive Toolpaths for Aluminum on the Shapeoko -

[@benmobbs]

Informative and constructively critical for entry level cnc and CAM users. As others have suggested I also, if you can't cool and you want larger chips and better chip evacuation, have single flute endmills on the list. This is also the case with plastic which can obviously melt very easily,

[@NicholasLibby]

I really like the dry humor, reminds me of This Old Tony. Keep it up!

[@kaden56]

I don’t know how I haven’t done the method of milling a fixture to flip the piece over into but I’m so glad I watched this video because that’s going to help me a ton in the future!! Thanks man!

[@ScottTurnerformeindustrious]

Thank you Winston - I have heaps to learn on the CNC so I appreciate your sharing of your own experiences

[@shitwithagopro]

Nice video. I run aluminum on an even flimsier MPCNC and learned a lot of this the hard way. I use light mist coolant and stick to single flute 1/8" cutters to get work done. Shapeoko is definitely more capable. Good idea tricking your rest machining into handling the deflection better, I hadn't thought of that.

[@pco1984]

What I've learned from this video? "Don't just settle for the tip" :D

[@iuliancalin22]

😒

[@airgunningyup]

adaptives, 2 flute end mills , and videos being shared will take these smaller table top routers to the next level..

[@SahilYousif]

I wish i knew this earlier. I ran 2D contour operations on the Nomad with aluminum and the sounds i heard still haunt me to date.

[@toddmolloy311]

Legend has it the endmill warped dimensions and disappeared... lol

[@GabrielVuelmaRomanzini]

In Brazil we use Alcohol as lubrification. You can buy a water sprinkler, put alcohol in it and spray sometimes. Or buy a compressed air + lub sprinkler for cnc. It works very fine.

[@bob505470]

one thing i would recommend on smaller machines like this is to use very sharp micro grain carbide or good highspeed steel. Standard carbide tooling is not as sharp as micro grain carbide or high speed steel and needs to be run at a much higher ridgidity and surface footage to get desired results making it a not so great choice for hobby machines. 2 flute low helix endmills and air blast with a touch of light oil or even just windex should help with surface finish and chip welding issues. May sound counter intuitive, but when it comes to cutting metal on a loose machine, reducing cutting forces will make far more of a difference than more flutes.

[@ManCrafting]

I watched the other video. Love this information. Can’t wait to put it to use.

[@johnward5890]

I noticed you use Climb milling which with small end mills will defect away from the material being cut making a spring pass or multiple passes needed to finish. Conventional milling will force the tool in to the material and could be your fix for the problem with the lighter machines and smaller tooling. Conventional milling is used where Backlash is a problem and on Manual milling machines but could be used for lighter cutters that like to flex.

[@wildcard252]

Adaptive roughing is the way to go if available. Use more of the length of the flute, makes the tool last longer. It also leaves a nice finish on the bottom of the pocket if your machine is rigid enough.

[@nyccnc]

HA just watching this ;)

[@TheDRAGONFLITE]

NYC CNC same!

[@WinstonMakes]

Haha, and now in hindsight I regret not having a SMW shirt on hand...

[@NeoMorphUK]

Deflection is why I use GWizard. Helps with estimating what the deflection is going to be... but that is for an industrial machine so I tend to multiply by 3 to get a better deflection value for a hobby machine.

[@markmedrano8073]

Great little overview. I can echo the advice you've already gotten. o-flute is great for aluminum on light machines, 2 flute max. The higher the flute count the faster you need to move the machine to main your chipload, so increasing cutting forces. Lowering the flute count lets you slow the machine down and still take a good sized chip, which should also help put heat into the chip rather than the workpiece. I've got a 3040 router, so a little more rigid than a shapeoko, but I can easily take a 1mm radial on a 4mm axial cut with a 1/4" 0-flute. Lakeshore 2flute VFA are nice if you want to get fancy with variable flutes and zrn coating, but regular uncoated 2flute Lakeshore or Maritool cutters work great for general work. I've got generic chineese o-flutes that I use that have been alright, but I've got hope for Onsrud 0-flutes that I just got to play with but haven't run yet. I'd be a bit surprised if you couldn't manage like a 0.35mm radial and keep a decent chipload with a 1/4" cutter on the shapeoko, and it'll still get you better MRR compared to a 1/8" 2flute for similar cutting forces You don't even need mist to make a big difference, a good strong, dry airblast is a huge help. remove your dust shoe like you did in that one short clip in the middle and clip on a little locline hose with an air valve, job done. No "fancy" misting system needed

[@justayoutuba5380]

Funny how you say that o flute then 2 flute ..petty much how my father runs our 1200x2400 bed ..swears by oflute...

[@bradley3549]

Since trying the single flute cutters I can't believe how much better my Shapeoko 2/X-Carve does on aluminum.

[@phillhinkler3174]

With cnc there are soooooo many things to consider, and soooooo many ways to go wrong. That's why it feels soooooo good when you get it right.

[@ericspda]

You REALLY need coolant with Aluminum to avoid chip welding. If you cant manage coolant, you need to run very low surface footage, a few hundred SFPM. If the spindle isnt variable speed, try a smaller endmill to get the surface speed well below ~500. Try to run the highest chipload your machine can manage if running dry. Be aware of radial chip thinning, so largely adjust DOC to maintain a moderate size chip for a lower rigidity or power machine. 3F cutters only work well in aluminum when theres ample clearance for chip evacuation, 2F will be a much better bet for pocketing or near slotting operations. Even VMCs with high pressure flood coolant can chipweld in those situations with a 3F. You only really need to move to 3F if you could use the touch more rigidity out of the tool, or are able to feed harder and run out of spindle speed. Your machine is probably better suited to running a 2F 1/16" FBEM with adaptive toolpaths, or possibly 3/16 at the largest. You should be able to dial in a recipe that runs very reliably and minimizes machine deflection. Even a 1/16" EM is a lot stronger than you likely think. So long as you dont have insane runout, you can do reasonable MRR reliably in aluminum with a high speed spindle like that.

[@WinstonMakes]

Thanks for the input, definitely something I'll look into in the future. I agree that 1/4" is probably beyond the capabilities of my machine, the 1/8" I used was much more pleasant to work with. Ill keep that lower SFM range in mind going forward.

[@Razyre]

I got recommended single flute O upcutting bits and I haven't looked back while cutting aluminium. I'm mainly doing very shallow cuts into sheet material rather than a nice chunky block like you're using, but my machine is perhaps even more feeble than your Shapeoko and in my tests thus far, it's really doing well with this approach. Of course, I'm sacrificing surface finish for the chip clearance, but man does it work well. I've primarily been combining ramps with a shallow depth of cut to get around the lack of centre cutting and plunging in general, but having seen your video I'll have to look into adaptive clearing. Most of my work is with profiles though (or making slots using a bit of the exact diameter I want to avoid deflection in at least one direction), so not sure how much I could make use of it. I have the same approach with holes - I tried milling them using one of my single flute bits but the deflection was awful, so I switched to carbide drills instead which happily, if not noisily, plop through the material. I've been slowly adding bits to my machine, namely end stops and now a touch off plate, to enable me to do tool swaps more easily and consistently so I can use multiple tools for one job. My next stop is using a ball nose and chamfering bits as you have here - really excited to get started.

[@jacksonsmith4648]

On my machine, I run the Midget Mist system from LittleMachineShop. It's pretty inexpensive and works really well for coolant.

[@bulldogg187]

love your videos. especially like the intro. i would like to see more intros like this. Keep up the good work

[@Mcphilsmith]

Nicely done. If you ever give up running, you could always use those trays to make miniature muffins.

[@StarlancerAstro]

I'd also recommend using 6061 I use it on my machine and have good luck with it over softer aluminum

[@MrDrewmcdonald]

Have you considered 2 or 1 flute endmills? Fewer fluted have deeper gullets for better chip evacuation. Also WD-40 is a great cutting lube for Al but you could use Kerosine too if you have proper ventilation.

[@WinstonMakes]

Yea, I've gotten a lot of suggestions for that. It's on the shopping list.

[@cliff4377]

@@WinstonMakesuse proper cutting fluids, not volatile fuels as coolant..

[@WinstonMakes]

@@cliff4377 Ethanol (diluted) is actually an extremely common in MQL systems. And evaporates off cleanly. I'd go for that over WD-40, just requires a bit more setup.

[@jacobjudd6131]

Love your videos man!! Very helpful !

[@keithlane4343]

Hi Winston I'm new to CNC routers. Do you know of any good machine shows in New England that focus on CNC routers? I've been a machinist for 40 years, the last 30 doing production engineering, programming, and production management. Where I work we have HAAS VF series 4 axis machining centers, and MATSUURA 3 axis machining centers with CNC index heads, and a bunch of CNC lathes, and a manual machine shop with manual engine lathes, Bridgeports / Mill power conversions, grinders, etc. I'm looking to machine aluminum, and free machining brass for side projects, and with conservative speeds and feeds, I think a good CNC router could be an economical answer for my home shop I just stumbled upon your videos, and you seem very knowledgeable about these CNC routers. Thank you in advance for your help. Keith PS. You seem to be having a bit of trouble with work holding. You may want to machine a sub base for your machine. Just take a piece of aluminum, semi-permanently attach it to your machine (adding rigidity to your machine), machine it flat in your machine so it is flat to your machine, then drill a pattern of holes, one inch apart, covering the whole working table travel of your X and Y, alternating between the tap drill size of your favorite sized hold down hardware, and pin size of your favorite alignment pins. Thread mill your threads, then either bore your pin holes using a G13 with a couple of laps (L2), or ream them. That way your holes are prefectly in line with your spindle, and you can align your stock with three pins (2 on one side, and 1 on one side for a stop, clamp the part down, then remove the pins. You can mill the whole profile of your part, two sides at a time. Put an M00 in your program to stop so you can add two or more clamps on the finished sides, and remove the original clamps so you can finish your profile. Just make sure to rapid Z+ with your tools to jump your clamps . Hope this is helpful. Take care.

[@ranjah76]

I watch NYC CNC all the time so your intro had me laughing so hard. Good video! First time running into your channel

[@MrManta2012]

good video, instructive and knowledgeable

[@printyourenvironment]

Great video, thanks Winston!

[@SmallShopWorks]

Great video man! So much to learn!

[@abcqer555]

Love all your videos. Thank you for sharing. Could questions for you: How many hours total machining did this take? And if you had it in an industrial grade CNC how much do you think you could reduce it by?

[@jasonlong30]

did you check your climb vs convential direction. looks your bit is not cutting and evacuating the chips well. you should go in the direction of the spiral to remove the chips. check it out.

[@WinstonMakes]

I'm climb cutting everything.

[@TwinTurboLsx]

Modify your gantry plates, and secure them to linear guide blocks. Would more than likely solve all your problems. I dont know why they didnt come that way stock.

[@MaxMakerChannel]

Instead of mist cooling, you can just spray it with alcohol from time to time.

[@EcoMouseChannel]

I've set up a mist cooling valve that has a hose ran into a can of denatured alcohol. I just copied basically what Datron does on their machines.

[@MaxMakerChannel]

That is very convenient, but my compressor is loud as hell...

[@EcoMouseChannel]

I don't have one yet, but I'm really interested in Eastwood's scroll compressor. It's super quiet, and will fit under the Shapeoko in an enclosure.

[@CNCPRINTBLOGSPOT]

Yeah or you get a high pressure mini pump for that

[@jp8479]

Great info and great videos.

[@KarlMiller]

Awesome content. Very informative. Question : were you using the vacuum during these cuts? If so, I would wonder if a different dust shoe design would be better?

[@WinstonMakes]

Yes the vacuum was on, but you can't efficiently pull aluminum chips with a vacuum from cuts, compressed air is much better at dislodging them. I just lack a good enough compressor to run air continuously.

[@Cael817]

I like the toolpath namings =), and ofc, your videos in general.

[@TechDesignWorks]

Hi Winston- thanks for the video. I have a question- if you use adaptive roughing contours to cut out pieces from stock you can't add a tab. I'd like to use rest machining to do a 2d contour to do that, but I can't see a checkbox where you select rest machining and connect the two operations. Can you tell me what I'm missing? thanks

[@WinstonMakes]

Unfortunately not a good way to do tabs except to model them into your setup. You can then either model the whole piece of stock or use a contour or sketch to constrain how far out the adaptive toolpath goes.

[@coatduck]

10:20 . . . Of your endmill. Riiight.

[@alberto15x]

lol I did notice it too

[@RozetRides]

you dont need coolant. for this machine it would be better using forced air. also research helical or ramp plunging. this reduces tool wear and stress in the material. also try pre drilling the hole to near depth so that you can take full depth cuts.

[@cliffchism9187]

Very informative. Thank you.

[@bluustreak6578]

I'm surprised that the shapoko doesn't flex more than that, given these rough loads :) My own cnc router is of another brand, and it flexes a whole lot more.

[@airgunningyup]

what brand ?? is it a bobs cnc or a xcarve ?

[@bluustreak6578]

It's non of the big names, but rather a smaller brand here in sweden. the construction is actually more rigid than any of the popular brands like those you mention, but the linear rails and bearings are made in such a way that it still causes more flex. it's a bit of a shame, but it's fixable with lot of work.

[@patrickbrice6344]

stange thought (and forgive me, i havent read all the comments here) have you thought about reversing your shopvac hose to outlet and running that through the suck it to add low-ish pressure air at high volume into the workpiece, and using high-pressure air from an air compressor as required?

[@WinstonMakes]

Doesn't really have the velocity to get chips out of pockets. I think high pressure is the only way to go.

[@JBCreations2650]

Will it help with the ridgidity of the machine if you use a roughing endmill?

[@WinstonMakes]

1 or 2 flute roughing endmills and/or chipbreakers would help with evacuating chips, but you would hit the same physical limits of the machine. Higher RPMs could let you go faster while maintaining the same chip load, but I'm not sure if you run into thermal issues. My parts did get a little warm so I know bigger chips alone couldn't carry away all the hear from cutting.

[@xaytana]

Would acme screw drives be better for aluminum machining? Or ball screws.

[@NeoMorphUK]

One query, Winston?...Why hollow out the back of the tray when you really could do with the extra weight to keep it from sliding?

[@WinstonMakes]

Cool factor. And practice. But mostly cool factor.

[@danielsahagun1747]

So how deep are passes on 1/2 aluminum and what speed?

[@deathangel4200]

would the shapeoko Z-plus help with some of the issues you had with this piece and machining aluminum??

[@WinstonMakes]

The rigidity would make a lot of things easier, but chip evacuation is still a challenge. That part would need to be addressed with stronger airblast/coolant, single flute endmill, and/or chip breaking endmill.

[@JOEYG707]

Did you try and or compare a climb vs conventional adaptive cut? You might have less deflection but more strain on the belts. I use Oflutes a lot for pocket clearing in aluminum since I have the same problem with chip evacuation and they work pretty good, definitely not for finishing passes tho.

[@WinstonMakes]

Haven't looked at conventional though I will when I give 2-way adaptive a try. Will probably run that at 80% the F&S of climb. Really curious about O-flutes in aluminum, I've heard of a couple people using them to great effect.

[@JOEYG707]

Ya they do give a decent cut but since there is more gullet to help the chip evac. you have less core strength so propper S&F’s are a must. You should check out the video Saunders did for a ToolsToday promo he used a Oflute and made it look easy...a tormach always helps tho.

[@RichardCournoyer]

Great info.....I even learned something! Now, who are the 7 dipshits who didn't like this awesome and informative video?

[@bluedeath996]

Smaller chips doesn't make much difference to packing, just get yourself a Nogacool mist cooler. In addition, smaller cuts have chip thinning issues and will reduce your tools life.

[@airgunningyup]

can you explain how I can get fusion to start the cut at stock top? my fusion files all cut 12mm above the work. thx

[@WinstonMakes]

It should be the "Top Height" setting.

[@airgunningyup]

ill have a look , thanks.. whenever I alter the height settings it issues warnings about X height being below X height and so on.. we shall see , thanks

[@airgunningyup]

just ran another gcode, it ran as it should.. the difference was, I didn't have the machine zeroed before uploading the gcode.. I did it after when I had the g-code already loaded and could see the part in the mach 3 display.. it worked.. who knows if that was it

[@FlipFlopPilot]

Just getting into machining on my new cnc, thanks for the video. BTW, Fizz is better. :-)

[@gmack4097]

Couldn't you increase your feed rate (and MRR) by a factor of 3 by tripling the router speed?

[@WinstonMakes]

Chip evacuation will become even more problematic. With compressed air, it works to a point. @Vince.Fab on IG runs about 2.5x my rpm and feeds. But I suspect there's an SFM limit machining dry.

[@gmack4097]

Kennametal's ABDE.. and ABDF... high performance carbide endmills recommend 1600 - 4900 SFM for 6061 T6 aluminum (catalogs.kennametal.com/?RelId=6.11.15.0.p1.15&lang=eni). Here's a video of one in action (without coolant). s7d2.scene7.com/s7viewers/html5/VideoViewer.html?videoserverurl=s7d2.scene7.com/is/content/&emailurl=s7d2.scene7.com/s7/emailFriend&serverUrl=s7d2.scene7.com/is/image/&config=Kennametal/html%5F5%2Dsmooth%5Fw%2Dshare&contenturl=s7d2.scene7.com/skins/&config2=companypreset&asset=Kennametal/Kennametals%20MaxiMet%20Carbide%20End%20Mills%2DAVS Machining Advisor Pro is handy (especially for its material hardness data base) but it apparently doesn't support other manufacturer's endmills or show cutter power and forces like Kennametal's calculator does.(www.kennametal.com/en/resources/engineering-calculators/end-milling-calculators/force-torque-and-power.html)

[@WinstonMakes]

MAP doesn't work for this class of machine. Doesn't have the rigidity for it.

[@gmack4097]

Like other calculators, MAP lets you reduce depth of cut, width of cut, and/or federate as well as increase spindle speed to reduce cutting force/machine rigidity requirements to acceptable levels for any machine. The Kennametal calculator www.kennametal.com/en/resources/engineering-calculators/end-milling-calculators/force-torque-and-power.html tells you what the forces are. Do you know what the torsional stiffness for the three S3 axes are?

[@WinstonMakes]

No. No one's quantified it. We know the stiffness of the gantry and rail extrusions, but the whole system has so many points of movement. I've run MAP at the absolute worst case settings, including finding the weakest spindle option. Can't match it.

[@capnthepeafarmer]

I hear you talking about harmonics and resonance with machining, and that's a whole separate rabbit hole in itself. If you check out this practical demonstration link here kzbin.info/www/bejne/q6eWqoh5oZdqra8 it shows there is a correlation between DOC, RPM and other parameters. Not surprising, right? Well it has been taken a step further by some companies doing aerospace components. They will actually physically characterize the machine and tool to get its resonance pattern, and are thus able to operate the equipment below the resonance frequency. It's very cool.

[@onurtektas6851]

You are roughing with climb milling from what i see. It can be faster if you use conventional for roughing then climb for finishing

[@hotfuzz1913]

You forgot the hey folks but I'll let it slide this time

[@23fields]

i just done a halftone photo on pvc ... i uploaded

[@mcoram3486]

dont use the gold ti coated cutters on al. they love to melt together. Chrome coated tools are best for Al.

[@WinstonMakes]

The gold coating isn't Ti, it's ZrN.

[@Scarantino76]

In italy use alcool

[@jesusariza2120]

Convencional

[@qqqqqqqq1407]

tormachs be weak af

[@user-db4tx7gd1r]

ни хуя не понятно!!!! но очень интересно))))

[@TheLevitatingChin]

Pretty bad advice in this video. Why are you using 3 flute in a machine like this!? Single flute will clear chips much better and lower your feeds.

[@IonicBasher]

Filthy Casual. Hahaha.

[@MSM5500]

This shapeoko is nothing but bullshit, especially when it comes to milling aluminium. For the insane sum of money they charge for the toyish shapeoko a good solid milling machine with a proper spindle, Japanese linear guides and ball screws could be built instead.

[@WinstonMakes]

So go ahead and bring a product like that to market. I'll wait. I'll even buy one.

[@MSM5500]

I've brought it to my workshop already so you don't have to wait. Any machine is not an end product like a TV, a computer, or a car. The machine is a tool which only purpose of which is to make something else. If someone wants to have a machine then he or she considers to use it for manufacturing either some products or mechanical parts for further assembly. This assumes that the person intending to operate the machine should be technically knowledgeable enough to build a proper machine themselves. If you represent yourself as a kind of thech guy so why cannot you design an build something descent rhather that fooling people by showcasing them only drawbacks and disadvantages of the two grand flimsy belt driven piece of shit?

[@WinstonMakes]

Same reason I buy lumber from the big box store instead of milling my own in the backyard. It's accessible to a wider audience, and frankly that's not a battle that interests me. When I was first looking at getting a CNC 4 years ago, I was not prepared to source all my own parts. If I hadn't purchased a kit, I wouldn't have gotten into cnc at all. The vast majority of people buying machines these days need a commodity, not an engineering exercise.

[@MSM5500]

The easiest way to build aluminium capable machine is to buy a mini mill then retrofit it to CNC. There are many ways to go. Here is one of them: the person just bought a conversion kit and put all together. I believe this project will easily fit two grand budget or less. makezine.com/2011/12/06/kit-review-mini-mill-cnc-conversion/

[@Renaldo015]

Your face doesn't seem to fit your voice 😂