Winter Base Layers are Marketing Hype

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Kane Does Outdoors

Kane Does Outdoors

Күн бұрын

Пікірлер: 127
@douglasdoucette7352
@douglasdoucette7352 Жыл бұрын
Once sweat is on your skin, it needs to be wiped off or evaporate. Wicking is simply the movement of water thru layers of natural and/or synthetic fabric. Cotton will soak up the moisture but doesn't release it as well as wool or synthetics (polyester, etc.). People who worked outdoors before advent of synthetic fabrics wore heavy wool pants & coats which kept them warm even when wet (& heavy). Compared to today's thinner wool fabrics, synthetic base layers are similarly effective & less expensive. Living in Atlantic Canada, we're never far from the ocean, river or other water source. Our climate tends to be wet (higher humidity) & temps near 0*C cold go right thru you! When hiking in cold weather, I wear a synthetic base layer, merino mid-layer then fleece outer or down jacket (depending on conditions). A shell is also handy when the wind blows or threat of rain is present. Also depends on if I'm out for the day or overnight; the latter requires more attention to layering, not overheating, getting dry & warm quickly when done for the day. Happy hiking!
@1024Pete
@1024Pete Жыл бұрын
Thanks for the technical explanation. Very interesting. Buffalo Gear from the U.K. works well without layers. I used in Iceland and on the east coast winter hikes. Smart Wool and Duck Worth wool is great too. Wishing you peace and good fortune. Happy Trails.
@donnydread7631
@donnydread7631 2 жыл бұрын
In the past year I have become I huge fan of wool. I’ve always done the wool socks, but lately I’ve invested a lot of money in replacing all my base layers and mid layers with wool. To me they seem much warmer and take a lot longer to develop an odor.
@KaneDoesOutdoors
@KaneDoesOutdoors 2 жыл бұрын
Wool definitely performs well in a lot of conditions and the stink factor is a huge benefit. I use it for t shirts in the summer because they do so well on long trips when it comes to odour. That being said, the number of shirts of I've lost to the dryer that came out almost fitting my 6 year old son is getting a bit frustrating - not to mention expensive.
@gerhardbraatz6305
@gerhardbraatz6305 2 жыл бұрын
Hang them up to dry.
@donnydread7631
@donnydread7631 2 жыл бұрын
@@gerhardbraatz6305 heavy wool fleece or your mid layers should be laid flat to dry to prevent stretching and misshaping. But I think he was referring to items being placed in the dryer on accident. ie; getting mixed in with other clothing accidentally.
@KaneDoesOutdoors
@KaneDoesOutdoors 2 жыл бұрын
The dryer is an accident.
@KaneDoesOutdoors
@KaneDoesOutdoors 2 жыл бұрын
You got that right Donny!
@TheBabadush
@TheBabadush Ай бұрын
I absolutely have been blown away with the word wicking aka soaks up sweat. Also the trim fit BS does the opposite effect of layers. You don’t want them skin tight or they can’t hold as much air. It kills me when I see wicking. Also fleece is better than wool 1000%. I’m glad I found you. Someone who sees through the marketing
@mezmerya5130
@mezmerya5130 Жыл бұрын
wicking in terms of baselayer means transporting liquid via capillary effect from your skin into the layer to increase surface area, so it evaporates faster. That's about it. Sadly in winter it just doesnt work, because freezing air kinda negates the evaporation part of baselayer liquid transfer, so i understand your skepticism. In winter only way to manage mosture is to maintain exact level of activity so that your clothes dont overload. As my primary activity in winter is skitour, for harder stuff (1500m up) i use two shirts, one polypro, other fleece, for uphill and downhill respectively. For easier rolling skitour where you may do several 500-600m ups and downs only way to stay warm is to go slow and steady, so that moisture transfer still works despite cold. XC runners cant go slow and steady, so they use super high race suits with a bit of wind resistance properties and nothing else, and they honestly look ridiculous. Basically what i wear in winter is determined by pulse. close to max pulse aka running? baselayer and beanie, that's all, if you get cold, just run faster. Zone 2? add windstopper. Downhill zone 1? add softshell. Wool is my choice for resorts and assisted freeride only, but i know some people that climbed 8000 wearing nothing but wool all the way from kathmandu, so it's taste i guess.
@ipedros7
@ipedros7 10 ай бұрын
True. I think that is true for any conditions, nto just winter. If we overwhelm the system with warmth/energy, too must moisture will result and we'll be very sweaty. The difference is on a frosty or just very humid day can be impossible to recover anytime soon, whereas on a nice summer day its easy to recover and dry off.
@tomsitzman3952
@tomsitzman3952 Ай бұрын
I have been wearing Brynje fish net for over 50 years and that has never been a problem in extreme cold.
@GubbePaaTur
@GubbePaaTur 11 ай бұрын
Nothing beats wool. Coming from Norway, dressing for cold climate is something we know. We learn and experiance this from we are todlers. Thin layrs of wool and a outer wind proof. You are good to go.
@KaneDoesOutdoors
@KaneDoesOutdoors 11 ай бұрын
Does the Norwegian cross country ski team race wearing wool?
@GubbePaaTur
@GubbePaaTur 11 ай бұрын
@@KaneDoesOutdoors They use thin wool jersyes during training, but in races when it is not so cold, they usualy only have their speedsuites.
@Sleepy7666
@Sleepy7666 10 ай бұрын
Wool mesh correct?
@GubbePaaTur
@GubbePaaTur 10 ай бұрын
@@Sleepy7666 Yes, wool mesh. For backpacking on the coldest winter days I use the Brynje Artic. A combo shirt and long Johns of mesh and a thin wool shirt. Pricy but so worth it.
@KaneDoesOutdoors
@KaneDoesOutdoors 10 ай бұрын
@GubbePaaTur I didn’t realize you were talking about Brynje. I’m going to try it.
@Johnjds
@Johnjds 2 жыл бұрын
Great explanation, agree it’s all just layers. I do similar for running and layer like a quilt as needed. Synthetic stretch inside, wind or soft shell outside, then different weights of grid fleece between as loft. Conduction is the secret killer in the cold. That would be a good video that I bet you have a good perspective on: the different principles that cause you to get cold.
@KaneDoesOutdoors
@KaneDoesOutdoors 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the feedback! Years ago we used to just put clothes on when it was cold - the colder it was the more you put on 😂 Man it’s been years since I’ve though about conductive, convective or radiant heat loss - not sure i have the right perspective on that one!
@hypothalapotamus5293
@hypothalapotamus5293 Жыл бұрын
I run and cross country ski pretty hard on forest service trails. At some point, I just decide that my merino wool base layer is done (like 3 hours or so in) and switch it out for another one. I think my/our usage doesn't really overlap with the use expectations of most outdoor companies. From an engineering perspective, the idea that wicking away sweat is at all desirable is insane. 1. The body releases sweat to lower body temperature, which occurs through evaporative cooling. If evaporative cooling is ineffective, the body releases more sweat. 2. Wicking places insulating material between the body and the sweat, making evaporative cooling inefficient. Trapping water vapor near the body produces a high humidity environment, which also makes evaporative cooling inefficient. ineffective cooling--> Excess sweat-->Excess sweat soaks everything-->bad stuff. From this perspective, the mesh base layer of the 1950s might actually have been the way to go (and I'm seeing a lot of this concept on cycling base layers because they are super equipment oriented people). It allows evaporation to happen, has minimal surface contact with the skin, and keeps whatever the moisture gets condensed on away from your skin. So, this might mean buying cycling clothes O_O.
@jorymil
@jorymil 22 күн бұрын
@@hypothalapotamus5293 As a cyclist, I'm all about repurposing cycling clothes for as much as I can. Trying out some merino wool jerseys now. I've been a fan of Pearl Izumi sunsleeves for about a decade, and really like cycling tights as a "base layer." Showers Pass makes some great multipurpose jackets, too.
@hypothalapotamus5293
@hypothalapotamus5293 22 күн бұрын
@@jorymil Updating my opinion a year later: I believe that tight wicking layers (thin layers that wet out easily, allowing water and heat to be transported to the outside and then evaporated) are useful in one layer systems (I use running sleeves for sun protection) or as exterior layers. I don't believe in wicking layers as inner layers because they produce little loft (what corresponds to insulation) and the moisture movement in the larger system will be determined by the breathability of outer layers. I think that they are more irrelevant than harmful though (I think that solid merino wool is harmful as it holds water and isn't very breathable). In terms of loft, temperature stability, and breathability below spandex, nothing beats Scandinavian style mesh baselayers (Brynje or Aclima, which may be wool or polypropylene..). For looser fitting garments (less compression), polartec alpha direct hoodies or Teijin octa shirts are better.
@MsRotorwings
@MsRotorwings Жыл бұрын
I love Eddie Bauer’s grid fleece. They are one of my layers throughout the northeast winters.
@laowai2000
@laowai2000 Жыл бұрын
Those grid fleeces are amazing aren't they. Just picked up a Japanese brand at a fraction of the price of the major brands. Incredibly warm and breathable. So impressed.
@Sleepy7666
@Sleepy7666 10 ай бұрын
Just get a military surplus waffle.
@jeffreycarman2185
@jeffreycarman2185 3 күн бұрын
3:44 when it comes to outdoor apparel “wicking” is a misnomer, probably invented by someone in the marketing department of an outdoor apparel brand, and was adopted as a way of saying “quick drying” -which is not the same thing as wicking.
@ErikTobieson
@ErikTobieson Күн бұрын
Damn the knowledge in this video! Amazing
@andycjohnston
@andycjohnston 2 жыл бұрын
This is a fantastic explanation, and reminder about layering, and how to stop and think hard before buying something. I've always been a fan of merino, back in the days when I was climbing rather than hiking. It was because it kept me warm, but when I was really sweating buckets it also didn't stink after a few days. (to me that's still a huge plus) Recently I've been reading about wool base layered with polyester on top (same as what you are doing) and I've read that it works better than wool base and wool mid on top. I've an icebreaker hoodie mid layer which I love, and I use with a RAB downpour shell on top. (down for camp), but I've also been thinking about swapping the merino mid layer for an Alpha Direct hoodie. These are lighter, and work really well when active (and I've the shell to combat wind), and would give me the opportunity to try polyester over wool like you have done. Have you tried Alpha Direct vs the lightweight grid fleece?
@KaneDoesOutdoors
@KaneDoesOutdoors 2 жыл бұрын
Hi Andrew, I had some Alpha gloves that performed very well. They handled moisture better than any other fleece or windstopper glove. I haven't tried a hoodie yet but I'm planning on it when my current shirt wears out.
@andycjohnston
@andycjohnston 2 жыл бұрын
@@KaneDoesOutdoors - Unreal, thanks for the tip. I'm definitely going to give it a go, and our local macpac has them on special for under $100 AUD which is a really good price here. (importing stuff gets expensive with postage)
@wanderworm
@wanderworm 2 жыл бұрын
I like your perspective on this. As I’ve been doing outdoor stuff I’ve often wondered how the magical mythical wicking happens. Marketing has a strong psychological component that is profit-driven. How does a company create a new perceived “need” for a product that is otherwise boring. Very much like laundry and dishwasher soaps. They’re just soap and soap is boring so how we get people to buy more? Change how it’s packaged and promoted with the “revolutionary “ introduction of pods that come in indestructible plastic bins and where each pod is usually wrapped in dissolvable plastic. WTH? There was nothing wrong with powdered detergent that came in a cardboard box.
@Tacticalredneckequipment
@Tacticalredneckequipment 3 ай бұрын
My understanding is that the term "wicking" came from the polymer industry. Early polymer was like wearing plastic, cause, it's plastic, so they started chemical treating it to attract water like a magnetic. Plant based fabrics absorb water, like a paper towel. Animal based sheds water, it's like setting your dishes on a drying rack, the water runs down and passes through the drying rack. I have hair sheep. If you go pet them while it raining the further you stick your fingers into their coat, the dryer it is, and their skin is always dry. However if Wool is treated, like "super washing," that is done to remove the surface of the fiber, making it more comfortable, but loosing a little bit of the natural properties.
@yuriklaver4639
@yuriklaver4639 Жыл бұрын
A normal fleece sweater wicks moisture away just as well.
@karlkrassnitzer6819
@karlkrassnitzer6819 3 ай бұрын
If the thin base layer soaks full of moisture the sweating rate is to high. To avoid this be flexible with your overall layers. With 0, 1, 2 or 3 very thin windcheaters depending on the outer temperature you can adjust the sweating rate. If you sweat, then immediately undress one of the windcheaters. This works for me also at -10 ° C (14° F) at riding bycicle.
@opelfrost
@opelfrost 2 жыл бұрын
i was always wondering why they called it wicking lol it didn't felt like that love how you explain everything and how it works! cause you need to find a system that works for your body/hiking style for base layer i prefer synthetic for btm and merino wool for top. you don't sweat as much below, so there's less odour issue prefer synthetic for the faster drying. merino wool takes forever to dry in winter/moist condition and i sweat more than normal ppl, so my top is always wet no matter what i do (i even have a backpack that has a huge gap between my back to let it air and dry)
@KaneDoesOutdoors
@KaneDoesOutdoors 2 жыл бұрын
Once you saturate it can't wick anymore - my back is always soaked with sweat.
@RodneyClang
@RodneyClang 2 жыл бұрын
I don’t know how it works but my merino base stay soaked longer from sweat and the thin synthetic does not. Might not be wicking but it has similar net effect. Skin layer should be non absorbing perhaps. Breathe and out. ? Dunno
@KaneDoesOutdoors
@KaneDoesOutdoors 2 жыл бұрын
I think you're right - from my experience Merino holds moisture a bit more than synthetic. I can't say this with 100% certainty, but I think a thin merino feels warmer when wet than a thin synthetic. Both dry out well. I've crawled into my sleeping bag many times completely soaked and wake up dry the next morning using merino.
@jorymil
@jorymil 22 күн бұрын
"Long johns" are donuts here in the Midwestern US.
@sdnalyam
@sdnalyam Жыл бұрын
Try Brynje mesh base lawyers.
@kentmulter
@kentmulter 11 ай бұрын
As far as I can tell, the only thing you're complaining about is the mis-use of the word "wicking." You don't seem to be denying that the newer synthetic fabrics are, in fact, good at keeping us dry: better than cotton, and less expensive than wool. No one really cares what buzzwords the manufacturers use. I think you've used a sensational headline to attract viewers to this video. I'd call that "marketing hype."
@floyd2386
@floyd2386 11 ай бұрын
I spent the whole video wondering what kind of point this guy was trying to make. Absolutely none. The industry' s use of the term "wick" isn't even incorrect and you can't go comparing moisture management in humans to supplying fuel to a flame just because they use the same term.
@KaneDoesOutdoors
@KaneDoesOutdoors 11 ай бұрын
I disagree.
@johns3106
@johns3106 10 ай бұрын
Yep….arguing about semantics rather than what actually keeps you dry, warm and comfortable.
@hypothalapotamus5293
@hypothalapotamus5293 10 ай бұрын
I think he instinctively knows there's something wrong with most layering systems, but doesn't really understand what. The baselayer is very important for moisture management because water that hits this layer will cool the body through evaporative cooling. There are two extremes- 1. Wicking synthetic layer+hydrophobic box fleece... Wicking fabrics disperse water evenly throughout the fabric, leading to greater surface area for evaporation. Heat transfer and water capacity concerns favor very thin layer for best evaporation. The hydrophobic grid fleece keeps the water from going back to you. 2. Fishnet (preferably hydrophobic polypropylene, but it has minimal skin contact so it doesn't matter.)- Water evaporates off skin. Fishnet keeps it from going back. Minimal skin contact means that things don't get bad even when the fishnets get wet.
@backlogbrood2451
@backlogbrood2451 7 ай бұрын
​@@KaneDoesOutdoorsI really like your videos but I must admit this one had me scratching my head. Nothing really here to offer besides a gripe about wordsmithing in the industry. Its interest is limited to perhaps a comedic observation of the misuse of the word "wicking" but not quite enough here to merit making a video about it. Sure, it's ok for you to disagree with this point but I don't believe you when you say that based on the high quality of your other videos.
@martymorissette
@martymorissette Жыл бұрын
I actually prefer synthetic to wool... because wool holds on to , I beleive 20-25% more water for the same weight, so if ind it harder to dry... Would you say that's accurate?
@KaneDoesOutdoors
@KaneDoesOutdoors Жыл бұрын
That’s probably accurate. Wool definitely hold more moisture and it’s expensive. I use merino t shirts and underwear. Can’t afford anything else and synthetic grid fleece works great.
@pietrovasti9578
@pietrovasti9578 3 ай бұрын
The german brand Ortovox (one of the best for alpine clothing, not sure if it's famous in the US) produces some grid fleeces made of a blend with ~30% merino. They seem great, give them a try
@mohr4less
@mohr4less 2 ай бұрын
If evaporation is what makes water contact so cold; but cotton holds onto water better than other fabrics, I don’t understand how it follows that wool and synthetics are so much better than cotton. If wool is “hydro-phobic,” I don’t understand why/how it “wicks” water away from your body rather than just keeping it pressed against you.
@Mjdk26
@Mjdk26 15 күн бұрын
Cotton holds water inside its fibers, making the fabric heavy, wet, and cold against the skin. It cools the body because the moisture stays close to the skin and evaporates there. Wool and synthetics work differently: Wool: Has a hydrophobic surface but a hydrophilic core. It absorbs moisture inside the fibers without feeling wet and still insulates even when damp. Synthetics: Are completely hydrophobic and move moisture away from the skin via capillary action on the fiber’s surface. They dry quickly and keep you dry. Cotton lacks wool’s warmth and the quick moisture management of synthetics, making it unsuitable for cold or wet environments.
@What_If_We_Tried
@What_If_We_Tried 2 жыл бұрын
Appreciate your explanation. I'm subscribing to see what else you have to say.
@donnydread7631
@donnydread7631 2 жыл бұрын
I really enjoy his videos. He doesn’t post often, but he seems to have a really good system figured out. I hold his opinion’s very high. He’s not trying to sell anything, he just has experience in the backcountry and is willing to share his knowledge with others.
@KaneDoesOutdoors
@KaneDoesOutdoors 2 жыл бұрын
Welcome aboard! Thanks for the positive feedback!
@KaneDoesOutdoors
@KaneDoesOutdoors 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks Donny, I appreciate that a lot! I would like to post videos more often but mostly make them when I get outside and something interesting (from my point of view) pops into my mind. I've tried making a few videos from home ("5 of this" or "10 best that") and don't end up posting them. They feel contrived. Trip videos are another story. For example I have a video called ""Unexpected winter camping the high alpine" which is honestly my favourite video. The trip was extremely committing and challenging. I'm glad I made the video to document the trip for myself, but it's more a report than a good story. The video didn't gain much traction which is understandable because it's kind of boring! Those videos are extremely challenging to film and edit. I haven't figured out my "recipe" yet. Work in progress!
@mortentoftdal4117
@mortentoftdal4117 Жыл бұрын
As a former military member in the danish army i found that synthetics have no place unless it is polartec alpha. For wet winter 0-5 degrees celcius i would usually wear wool mesh baselayer and a heavier weight terrywool or alpha fleece on top under my combat shirt this is to bind as much air as possible with having as little fabric touching my skin as possible cause i would never wear a rain jacket so i would get completly soaked. Never had a problem with merino taking longer to dry than synthetics merino comes in many different weights and the spinning of the yarn also have a huge saying in how fast and well it breathes and dries. One of the biggest mistakes people are making with merino wool is washing it with regular detergent the enzymes breaks down the wool fibers and overtime you have destroyed your wool clothing.
@KaneDoesOutdoors
@KaneDoesOutdoors Жыл бұрын
Good points - Alpha is great but not many products are made with it. Grid style fleece is an ok compromise and is really cheap. Unfortunately mesh baselayers are almost impossible to find in North America but I'd like to try them out. Interesting about detergents with enzymes... it makes sense.
@mortentoftdal4117
@mortentoftdal4117 Жыл бұрын
@@KaneDoesOutdoors yes i dont know many making mesh baselayer aclima, devold and brynje is the ones that come to mind. Snowboarding and winter camping i prefer regular merino baselayers as I find the mesh at least the one from aclima not being the most comfortable next to skin but if i know i will get soaked i would choose mesh over any other.
@KaneDoesOutdoors
@KaneDoesOutdoors Жыл бұрын
@@mortentoftdal4117 Yes, brynje is the brand. Unfortunately when a product is so rare it's hard to recommend since most people won't have access to it, even if it performs well. Sometimes you have to go with what is easily available and accessible.
@mortentoftdal4117
@mortentoftdal4117 Жыл бұрын
@@KaneDoesOutdoors it is a shame since the mesh layers have are really good at a lot of things. But i can see over the last few years merino really have began hitting the american market so maybe there will be more aviabillity in the us in the next coming years
@solb101
@solb101 2 ай бұрын
Synthetics are non absorbent unless they are chemically treated and they trap heat and moisture. They may feel less damp and dry quicker but you’ll sweat more and stink. A loose weave makes them more breathable but a mesh cotton vest does the same and it won’t get so damp or stink. Wool is better at regulating the body temperature. Cotton is fine as long as your insulated and protected from the wind.
@mikekelly6603
@mikekelly6603 2 ай бұрын
Ortovox makes wool "grid fleece" and wool "puffy jackets". I have yet to see a good review of them. How warm is 250-weight merino compared to R1 style fleece?
@skyhigh9474
@skyhigh9474 Ай бұрын
Very knowledgeable video and technical. I can see why many people didn't understand but I understand and thankyou.
@505fastlife6
@505fastlife6 2 жыл бұрын
I’m new to hiking so sorry for the noob question but how come hikers wear those down jackets in winter I thought you can’t get down wet?
@KaneDoesOutdoors
@KaneDoesOutdoors 2 жыл бұрын
It’s actually not a noob question. Moisture in your insulation is a big challenge. I see pictures of people out on day hikes and I can tell that their down jacket is soaked. If they were out for multiple days they would be in trouble. Not many people actually do true multiday winter trips. There’s lots of strategies to keep your main insulation layer as dry as possible: only putting it on when your not too active, vapour barriers etc etc. Hopefully wet stuff doesn’t fall from the sky… if there’s rain in the forecast in the winter I don’t go. Ultimately insulation performance goes down every day you’re out.
@triphonique5351
@triphonique5351 Ай бұрын
Very Interesting point of view, but for an non english speaker like me (french), there are no equivalent word for « wick », because there is no word for something which take and release the same thing at the same time, it’s too paradoxal or specific. We mostly use first layer (premiere couche) term and see primarily it like a non wet layer.
@JamesWillis-yy5px
@JamesWillis-yy5px 3 ай бұрын
I am moving to a cold place to live in the wilderness. I've never even seen show before, so it's going to be challenge. So far, I am planning Linen base layer, with goose down top layer. Thermal pants also for when it's needed. Anyone in the know, what do use think? Tasmania only gets to -13 C/8.6 F, it's cold and wet, like Scotland.
@jorymil
@jorymil 22 күн бұрын
Linen (flax fiber) is not a good choice for a cold-weather base layer: it's highly thermally conductive, so it cools you quite quickly--even more so than cotton. It doesn't hold onto water _quite_ as much as cotton, but in general, natural fibers are going to stay wet longer. Stay synthetic or wool in cold/wet conditions. Down isn't great in the wet, either, though I hear there are some new treatments that partially mitigate this. You might read up on the US Military's' PCU clothing system, which was based around the cold/wet conditions prevalent in Scotland.
@ipedros7
@ipedros7 10 ай бұрын
Great explanation. Exactly why the big thing of the moment, with large mesh layers going mainstream. Big pockets, very hydrophobic, not much actual material to absorb anything, then with the next layer covering creates air pockets of trapped warm air. Because the moisture is not in contact with the skin, you don't feel wet. I can see the layering advice in the near future being: large mesh > merino > grid fleece , (whatever weights for the conditions). Then combinations of soft shell/goretex/insulation layer like down/primaloft/etc as appropriate. Overall, in my mind, evaporation plays to primary role in pushing moisture out. Capillary, is on a secondary level. So long as there is warmth, and thus evaporation to force the transport, plus something to move the moisture to, there is transport. Within our micro atmosphere, its the clothes capillary action, from the outer layer its the air. If we create too much warmth the whole conveyor belt of moisture is overwhelmed. Which is the issue with misunderstanding materials like gore-tex. If the exterior is too humid (atmosphere) there will be very slow movement of moisture to the air, and thus you might as well be wearing a plastic bag.
@mountaineer5596
@mountaineer5596 Жыл бұрын
Good video. Thanks. You obviously know what you are talking about.
@dieuxroux
@dieuxroux Жыл бұрын
Thanks for the explanation. "Wicking" has never made sense to me. What do you think about mesh / fishnet baselayers (under merino) ?
@KaneDoesOutdoors
@KaneDoesOutdoors Жыл бұрын
I think they make a lot of sense but don’t have any experience with them. I’d probably put it under my grid fleece. Merino holds surprising amount of moisture.
@dieuxroux
@dieuxroux Жыл бұрын
I'm doing the research right now ( I love to do research!) about what's the best baselayer to wear in high intensity activities. The mesh / fishnet seems to be the best kept secret according to military guys, alpinists, die hard hikers. And I gotta say... It makes a lot of sense: you don't want your skin to be in contact with a wet material. Mesh takes care of that. I'd go mesh > thin merino wool > insulaton > softshell. Your grid pattern (or waffle) fleece works a bit like the mesh, in the sens that the shape allows for air pockets, thus better sweat management and air insulation. @@KaneDoesOutdoors
@michaelharman-derosier6776
@michaelharman-derosier6776 Ай бұрын
Synthetics are by nature oil-based and hydrophobic. The term "moisture-wicking" is just a dumbed-down term for our 8th grade newspaper society to discuss water polarity and moisture regain values. Unless synthetics are chemically treated, they are non-porous and do not have much or any capillary action, so moisture doesn't "wick" away. Instead, through simple pressure between skin and the base layer, moisture stays trapped, which is why you need an air gap, like a waffle textile design, to allow your 90*F+ skin temp to evaporate that moisture. The base layer isn't important so long as it is non-porous in nature. What's pivotal is the fabric air gaps that foster evaporation. Since cotton is porous by molecular design, it will hold moisture, even when wicking is available. Why? Because it has highly polar hydroxyl groups to it's cellulose which contributes to it's polar nature. What synthetics do is allow evaporation and offer electronegativity, which reduces the polarity to offer more hydrophobic necessity to the textile. It's best to look at this as a sliding scale, not as "either, or" arguments.
@peterjohnson6273
@peterjohnson6273 Жыл бұрын
Love that! Someone who uses his head for more than marketing storage! Thanks
@KaneDoesOutdoors
@KaneDoesOutdoors Жыл бұрын
Hahaha you bet!
@mobius9818
@mobius9818 3 ай бұрын
Why am I wanting to watch this in cartoon form? 😁 Otherwise, perfect~!
@tomsitzman3952
@tomsitzman3952 Ай бұрын
Not sure where you studied work physiology. Cotton fiber as a base layer can be a very effective fabric or poly pro fiber to transfer moisture from the surface of the body by wicking when it is woven into a fishnet. The fishnet is made into a base layer. The moisture wicks up the fishnet and into the knit wool layer where it spread out on ever fiber strand of the knit. Wool can hold 20% moisture and still retain 80% of its insulation value. If you are wearing a wind proof outer shell that covers your butt or to thigh length and have your wool mid layer untucked the vaporized moisture in the wool will pass out the bottom of your anorak the heat will be trapped inside. Nothing new about fish net it has been Nordic armies for over 100 years. I used to wear cotton fishnet and have switched to poly pro fish net both are equally effective. The cotton arm pits don't hold up. My mid layer wool is either merino or better, yet a weft weave Alpaca wool mid weight sweater. Alpaca wool can only hold 10% moisture and transports moisture quickly. Wearing fishnet and an Alpaca mid layer over my anorak I can be as comfortable in two CLO's as with your method in three CLO's.
@nenzonenzo
@nenzonenzo Жыл бұрын
You know it’s gonna be some half truth nonesense mumbo jumbo BS when their main arguments is prefaced with “just think about it bro.”
@SeanP7195
@SeanP7195 Жыл бұрын
Finally, someone said it.
@craigcampbell6961
@craigcampbell6961 11 ай бұрын
Fool around with all this inferior stuff as much as you want. By far the best solution is mesh underwear. Several commenters mentioned. Several materials and weights available. When I first used Brynje in 1972, I could only get cotton, and it still worked well. When active you want as good ventilations you can stand. Nowadays some more breathable soft shell items are available and often good over the base. Some fleece ok. When I did multi-week glacier trips a few years later, I made up my version of vapour barrier system using a light weight rain suit. Since there is no way to dry any clothes except with body heat, wear the wet stuff under the rain suit and put a fair bit of insulation on top. Consider a somewhat heavier, warmer down jacket and down pants to make this work better. Put socks and gloves to dry on skin on your stomach. Boots pretty difficult to dry, but vapour barrier socks really help. Put boots in a dry sack in the foot of your sleeping bag overnight so they don’t freeze. Cheers....
@largeformatlandscape
@largeformatlandscape Жыл бұрын
Sadly missing the point that a material can be hydrophobic and still wick through it’s geometry. Just like a straw can pick up water through capillary reaction without being absorbent. Also, synthetic materials do need to be hydrophilic to some extent but not absorbent .. the two aren’t contrdictory
@KaneDoesOutdoors
@KaneDoesOutdoors Жыл бұрын
For fluid to move you need a differential. Lamp wicks work because of the consumption by the flame. No flame, the material saturates and fluid movement stops. Doesn’t matter what the physical structure of the material is, my back gets saturated with sweat from my pack. What I need is a material that maintains air pockets even when wet to insulate, and doesn’t hold onto water molecules so it can dry out when I slow down and take my pack off. Synthetics and wool do this but it has nothing to do with wicking. It’s evaporation.
@alexispbm
@alexispbm Жыл бұрын
YES
@AnOldGuy164
@AnOldGuy164 Жыл бұрын
I remember hiking 4 days in cotton t-shirt, cotton under ware bottoms, cotton pants, and cotton socks. It was in the mid 40s. I was comfortable. I remember running 2 hours in -20F at night, light weight polypro top and bottom and hat, lycra shorts, and cotton socks. Ice on my thighs and my beard were the only issues. Now I hike in a lightweight synthetic base layer in 30-40 degree weather and they soon become wet. And stay wet. It is hard to dress properly.
@KaneDoesOutdoors
@KaneDoesOutdoors Жыл бұрын
100% agree, people have been doing things for a long time and getting by just fine.
@markschoenberger7825
@markschoenberger7825 Жыл бұрын
I don't get it. You say base layering is a gimmick, then describe how you layer. You say cotton is warned against, then say you do not use cotton. You describe different materials in detail, saying they differ in structure, which proves that they will act differently when used in clothing. ?
@KaneDoesOutdoors
@KaneDoesOutdoors Жыл бұрын
The marketing is a gimmick about how it's supposed to move sweat away from your body and keep you dry. I layer to control the amount insulation/warmth, because obviously you need clothes on in the winter to buffer the outside temp and stay warm. I've used polartec 200 wt fleece and under softshell with no "base layer" and it works very very well, but it needs to be very cold out for that wt of fleece. It's more practical to have multiple layers of thin grid fleece and be able to adjust to the temperature and exertion level. On my last trip all I had was a EB 1/4 zip grid fleece top and my EB grid softshell and a merino T. Works very well and handles hard work down to below -30C. Pants are always grid fleece and softshell, almost any temperature I encounter, with no true "base" as they are typically marketed.
@markschoenberger7825
@markschoenberger7825 Жыл бұрын
Thanks for the clarification.
@carrdoug99
@carrdoug99 2 жыл бұрын
Somebody's having a semantics breakdown. Click baity, but funny!😉😄
@KaneDoesOutdoors
@KaneDoesOutdoors 2 жыл бұрын
Something must have set me off on a rant that day 🤣
@carrdoug99
@carrdoug99 2 жыл бұрын
@@KaneDoesOutdoors 😄👍
@MultiTipsie
@MultiTipsie Ай бұрын
You explain exactly the opposite of what your title is saying.....😢
@sylvainbernaers
@sylvainbernaers Жыл бұрын
first wear on netting on your torso ( as pro cyclists do) and then a baselayer.your body will stay dry
@Fluxxcapacitor52
@Fluxxcapacitor52 Жыл бұрын
I hear where your coming from. I think we are getting lost in the weeds with the word "wick" capillary action. I disagree on a few points from my experience. The weave of the fabrics has alot to do with the "wicking proccess" proper materials will absorb small amounts of mousture as your body heat pushes it through the fabric to the next layer... I have personally fell into creaks and been soaked head to toe. In this situation of you dont have those layers that "wick" your f$cked. I put on my pack and my puffy and started hiking. The base starts to dry as your mid layer "wicks" the moisture from your base layer. 2 types of insulation.. static (down)and active (fleece, Wool). Also we forget wool has antimicrobial properties as well . The base layes job is also order managemet ....
@KaneDoesOutdoors
@KaneDoesOutdoors Жыл бұрын
Thanks for commenting - all good points. I punched through ice on this trip kzbin.info/www/bejne/iZragJmIoNd5rqM and got soaked. Really long video .... :( The modern fabrics work definitely work and I'm a huge fan of grid fleece which perform because of the material properties and weave structure. Those air pockets are very effective. Remember the old Lifa base layers? No structure and they were unpleasant. Sure they dried faster than cotton, but I still felt cold wearing them. My main gripe is the marketing, it really is made up BS. Is my back of the envelope hypothesis 100% correct? Maybe not, but I did work in cellulose research for 10 years so I have a bit of an understanding on that topic.
@Fluxxcapacitor52
@Fluxxcapacitor52 Жыл бұрын
@@KaneDoesOutdoors Right on man, I'll check it out🤙
@JefffromCanmore
@JefffromCanmore Жыл бұрын
meh. Can't agree with this perspective. Couldn't get past 5:41
@KaneDoesOutdoors
@KaneDoesOutdoors Жыл бұрын
You’re allowed to disagree 😉
@jozsaedmond4986
@jozsaedmond4986 7 ай бұрын
A complete nonsense you speak. You fail to grab basic terms and their usefulness - such as wicking.
@curtischillin4560
@curtischillin4560 Жыл бұрын
Dude, no one needs all the science and the breakdown about cellulose and blah blah blah
@KaneDoesOutdoors
@KaneDoesOutdoors Жыл бұрын
🤷‍♂️
@brianbodedelacruz8741
@brianbodedelacruz8741 Жыл бұрын
Dude, your comment is way more useless than the way you perceive the information.
@YaleWall
@YaleWall Жыл бұрын
False, I loved it! I was basically planning on clicking off when there was no b-roll, but I got sucked into the science of it.
@paynenass3698
@paynenass3698 2 жыл бұрын
Actually true fleece is made of wool
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