herO is enjoying the new StarCraft 2 Balance Patch...

StarCraft 2 Tournament - ByuN vs herO - GSL SC2 2024 Season 1 - Terran vs Protoss - ByuN tests herO's defenses in this epic new patch Terran vs Protoss series!
New Patch Breakdown: • NEW StarCraft 2 Balanc...
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StarCraft 2 Tournament - GSL SC2 2024 Season 1 - ByuN (Terran) vs Classic (Protoss) - Best of 3
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Starcraft 2 is a Science Fiction Real Time Strategy & Tactics game by Blizzard Entertainment. Download and play free at www.starcraft2.com
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Winterstarcraft, Starcraft 2 2024, SC2 2024
#Starcraft2 #SC2 #RTS

[@James-uk4xi]

I think it's pretty bold to assume hero even knows there was a patch

[@umrete]

True that 😂😅 🤣😂

[@chickenlittle0093]

11:02 ya it would be way to OP for feedback to be able to quickly and easily wipe out energy for a group of enemies. Ghost: why you looking at me? 😂😂😂😂😂

[@Lq32332]

Ya a rapid fire on mini-map no skill shot required feedback if pretty busted.

[@attractivegd9531]

Ghosts dont wipe out energy at all

[@ryanjensen1945]

@@attractivegd9531 brother has not seen a lategame tvz

[@a.e.richardson218]

@@attractivegd9531 emp does :D

[@hivetech4903]

@@attractivegd9531 Semantics, they might not technically wipe it out but they remove 100 energy.

[@matthewclark7955]

Can i just say, the unwavering dedication to well designed puns is quite admirable. Also the obscure subtle pop culture references. Should i stay or should i go by the clash. Honestly winter, im impressed.

[@WookofWallstreet]

This ain't his first rodeo 🎉

[@cpt.lounatic4010]

Dude is sharp as a tack with the puns!

[@WookofWallstreet]

@@cpt.lounatic4010 are tacks sharp or pointy?

[@cpt.lounatic4010]

@@WookofWallstreet my brain just exploded, and im questioning everything about my life.

[@Matt-ln7lb]

@11:00 Yes, the ability that lets you drain the energy of everything in an area would be incredibly OP... Imagine if there was an ability in the game that did that. On a more serious note: I think it's kind of silly to say that rapid fire feedback was considered too OP to make function, but rapid fire snipe/neural/abduct/interference matrix aren't being considered an issue. Rapid fire feedback isn't any stronger than those other single target spells, but it's the only one that cannot be effectively used with rapid fire. Either nothing should be able to rapid fire, or everything should. Feedback is grossly over-costed in terms of energy for what it does compared to EMP/steady targeting, considering it's practically incapable of killing most units with energy in practice, and not being able to rapid fire it makes it extremely difficult to actually use effectively in cases where it's very much needed, such as vs Abduct (which at 9 range, is very difficult to block with feedback).

[@TheMHB199]

When discussing balance one of the biggest issues is that people who don't play and only watch have a perspective on certain single unit or ability when that is not how balance works. Balance works across each race as a whole. So yes ghosts are insanely strong for example, however they need to be to be able to allow terran to survive late game. If ghosts didn't exist any game that went to late stage would be unplayable for terran. Same goes for any other unit/ability for any other race. Each of them is part of the whole and changing one has a knock on effect on the total army composition. People just whine and cry because they see a certain unit or ability doing terrible terrible damage to their favourite race. Ignoring the fact that there are so many more factors in play that allow it to be done in the first place. Also the general perception of balance by casual viewers is so far off the truth. A terran fan will die on the hill that terran is underpowered meanwhile a protoss fan will say the opposite with just as much passion. Neither of them having any understanding of the matchup strategies etc. Those same people will then complain about the balance council or any KZbin/commentator/analysts that doesn't conform to their own views and bias.

[@Matt-ln7lb]

@@TheMHB199 "So yes ghosts are insanely strong for example, however they need to be to be able to allow terran to survive late game. If ghosts didn't exist any game that went to late stage would be unplayable for terran. " Because balance was set up to make Terran reliant on them by making them extremely supply efficient with no clear weaknesses/counters. That could be changed by tweaking ghosts and other units to better distribute that power balance in the late game. Vs Zerg, a major issue is that massed Broods don't have a good counter aside from Vikings or ghosts, but the former is far too severely countered by Vipers/infestors to use in sufficient numbers as a counter. Frankly, most of the Terran roster is countered by infestors and/or vipers too severely to use effectively in the late game without ghosts, and ghosts also double as the counter to practically everything Zerg has. And with rapid fire, ghosts are easy enough to use that it's a non-issue spamming them. There's no diminishing value on more ghosts in your army like there is for most spellcasting units where the spells are more focused around utility or have effectively capped DPS (EG, storm/fungal not stacking means too many infestors/templar is counterproductive). Vs Protoss, EMP is powerful enough to flip practically any "fair" late game engagement heavily into the Terran favor, and they aren't really "needed" except against Templar to deny storm. Terran can and does compete with Protoss armies just fine without them. (To make a point, mass BCs will beat any Protoss composition even without EMP support, though it's very rarely practical to go into mass BCs in a real game due to the transition from bio being difficult. Bio will also roll over most Protoss armies even without EMP support once critical mass is reached, provided there's no storm and colossus/disruptors are dealt with effectively).

[@Matt-ln7lb]

@@TheMHB199 Another couple of points of interest: Removing rapid fire, so ghosts are more difficult to use in large numbers vs Zerg, would actually go a long way to resolving some issues in the match up by making room to nerf some Zerg units that ghosts are needed against. Reworking disruptors to be less all-or-nothing could make PvT less volatile when they're being added into compositions and let Terran stay more focused on ground units going into the late game, perhaps making room to nerf something elsewhere (and better balance both PvT and PvZ for the masters/low GM level, where Protoss can effectively use disruptors, but their opponents still have a lot of difficulty microing against them).

[@TheMHB199]

@Matt-ln7lb a thorough, well thought out response sir. I applaud you, and I actually agree with the vast majority of what you're saying. My comment was more related to the whiners who cry that one race is OP/UP when that just isn't the case and can be seen statistically. I do however completely agree how that balance is spread within the races could use work. Unfortunately it's probably unlikely we will see that change in the current era. As you say in late game TvZ infestor/viper basically dominates terran and Ghosts are the only answer hence the reliance on them. In PvT I think the main usage of the ghosts is actually EMp against shields and not against storm. Protoss players rarely seem to go storm at this level and there is an overreliance on stalker/disruptor. Hence why the bio army can absolutely stomp through if the ruptors don't hit clean. And at this level the terrans are good enough to avoid significant hits. If protoss relied more on colossus and storm they would do much better against bio (note they do build colossus but usually only 3-4 and then stop making them for the rest of the game). Also protoss very rarely try to contest the air supremacy. Tempests and phoenix's with range could add so much to a late game protoss army and yet we nearly always see them mass carriers which vikings and marines counter just fine. Forcing the terran to engage in the air also prevents liberators from having free reign. Anyway, no one wants to read all this pontificating by me. So I'll leave it there and say thanks for the reply, so rare to see that kind of response.

[@Matt-ln7lb]

@@TheMHB199 "Tempests and phoenix's with range could add so much to a late game protoss army and yet we nearly always see them mass carriers which vikings and marines counter just fine. Forcing the terran to engage in the air also prevents liberators from having free reign." Tempests are actually used more than carriers in PvT, since they're actually useful without upgrades and in small numbers. They're practically a necessity in the late game for chipping away at the Terran army/static defense. Phoenixes don't get used late game because they just lose to everything Terran has that shoots them, even without EMP; and EMP completely invalidates them vs ground. They can beat vikings/libs in small numbers, but start losing as numbers grow, and they're expensive at 100 gas. Carriers are actually cheaper for the supply cost, and generally stronger, though, of course, have their own issues. I think there's a bit of merit to phoenixes with range for tanking vikings, but it's hard to justify them, since that's the only thing they'd be for. In general, Protoss air probably just gets hit too hard by EMP + Vikings to ever be able to really compete. Tempests are really the only consistently viable air unit in the late game, and that's just because they have enough range to chip away at the Terran from over static defense. They're trash once the Terran can force a fight on them, and more than ~4-5 starts to get counterproductive, but they can guarantee some value with their range.

[@slavengineering8344]

I wonder if you've ever considered using the naming convention of one disruptor, a group of theseruptors (or just in general calling them theseruptors)

[@primary2630]

These nuts

[@aloe7794]

​@@primary2630_presses the Winter's Special Hacking Investigation Team button for the voiceline_

[@christopherscott6383]

Let's Effin Go! Woke up, got the notification.. got coffee, and breakfast sandwiches. SC2, Winter commentary.. Hey Jimmy, I can die happy.

[@soroushdarvish9281]

its crazy how easily i become content with starcraft in my life. wtf

[@AleksandrPolygaev]

I give you like you give me new cast - deal?

[@cloaker7139]

"Would you make that deal?" "Yea" "I dont blame you. Id make that deal. Damn good deal"

[@PenguinIceDelta]

​@@cloaker7139is someone about to get a logo knifed on their forehead

[@JollyGreenWizard]

34:40 choke points and force fields generally benefit whoever has longer range. Typically, if a protoss goes for sentries, they have a lot of extra minerals that go into zealots. Against Zerg there's still some utility, but against Terran, it's almost always the wrong call to force field.

[@iamnash]

27:10 the look on winters face when ByuN messes up the marine micro and lets the probe in xD

[@firestarter000001]

21:58 hilarious example of Winters often mentioned disruptor -zealot tense coexistance: Hero fires a shot, and quicky steers it to the side as to not kill en masse his own zealots:)

[@joshgulrud5635]

@10:30 A Pimp Named Feedback. Yes, you have to say the whole thing, every time.

[@ultralaggin8467]

This game is 14 years old i will never learn to play it but i will always watch winters cast as this game is enjoyable enough to watch and i dont have the time to commit and learn it.

[@WholeCarrots_]

I mean you don't have to commit to learning how to be good, the true point is having fun. Sometimes friendly fights are just meant to be goofy rather than serious :P

[@user-ni3yt1rw1x]

The Pyuns were on point today.

[@Alloran]

IMO if rapid fire is a mechanic that is intended to be in the game, it should be evenly applicable. For rapid fire to be too strong on templar but corrosive bile is just fine is nonsense to me.

[@henryarbaugh7255]

Crazy idea: give the twilight council an upgrade for zealots which allows them to move through and fight while within the sentry force field.

[@truthless4720]

Imagine having a skill that wipes out all energy in an area...

[@PashaSlavaUkraine]

See protos win on high level sc2 is extra sweet.

[@cathulionetharn5139]

Thank You Om nom nom

[@heyjude9537]

Nice artosis pylon 😂

[@korinokirin4511]

Marines and liberators is a very bold composition against carriers, and disrupters

[@saltking2133]

I have to say, you and PiG casting are keeping Starcraft 2 alive. CONSISTENT BANGER CONTENT.

[@_Kroaken_]

6:25 watching an archon tickle a marauder is just sad lol

[@zerg_burger]

35:00 pre-emp....say pre MP next time my son

[@Grond112358]

When you feedback so much you get semantic satiation.

[@shibomi1]

Hey Winter, have you thought about including a bonus match at the end of the video that are mirror matches? Not just as an anti-spoiler match

[@leeherbie7840]

@WinterStarcraft “all along the watchtower against the storm” too sharp good sir def my number 1 sc2 streamer ❤

[@cpt.lounatic4010]

I see winter, and be it spring, summer or fall, i click.

[@NealX_Gaming]

A pretty smooth Jimi Hendrix reference tho.

[@benlejusticier]

First time watching your videos, good commenting dude. And thanks for casting these games.

[@jrjbeach]

I've been wondering, what's with the hearthstone cards? Are those buffs real?

[@jadekaiser7840]

They're memes about the players' play styles and such.

[@jrjbeach]

@@jadekaiser7840 Thanks

[@ElectronHexagon]

Will you please show Jimmy? We would all like to meet the chap.

[@natecw4164]

If only Artosis could have learned a lesson for *all* Protoss, not just himself 😂

[@Lordofhollows15]

10:59 hmm nerf ghost then damnit

[@catbert7]

Hero's Disruptors fighting an internal battle against themselves over whether to kill their Zealot allies.

[@arthuryong4968]

Protoss late game be like: Om nom nom nom nom

[@faridmk3707]

Terrans: oh noes we got nerfed! Protoss players: First time?

[@renni9270]

Honestly the radius nerf to the widow mine feels more like a buff. Less Terran casualties with less radius so drag backs will be less effective at making the widow mine kill off their own units

[@eugenluchian8341]

Hy Winter! How do you think that the changes will affect the 2 gas 2 factory opening?

[@bimjybam]

why no recall in 1st game

[@SaikouKarate]

Does anyone know the name of the OST song at 15:00 ?

[@NinjaBaiano-br]

Damm been a year o come back the sky is falling.protoss got a buff😂

[@Halo2freak4ever]

17:35 how is he able to pick off that dark templar so fast...? Its very unreal if you ask me...

[@primary2630]

Well as winter said, he was looking for it cause it had killed a marauder

[@Halo2freak4ever]

@@primary2630 Yes, but how was he able to see it so easily and so fast!? It is invisible and to be able to differentiate it to the environment and give command to scan/kill it so fast is unreal/unhuman. If you ask me, it isn't a human playing but an AI.

[@cousinpatsey2471]

​@@Halo2freak4everfor one, pro players are almost all player on the lowest graphics possible, which makes it easier to see invisible units. For two, like the other guy said, he had a rough idea where the unit was regardless. And, for three, its his job to be able to do these things fast. Byun has probably close to, or more than, 20000 hours in game. Human players are just that good at that point.

[@WuYixiang]

Wasn't herO the one who admitted to not looking at patch notes before a major tournament?

[@yanshi4807]

i love the name ofthe video

[@ENZ2103]

The new Hearthstone cards are hilarious

[@SpreadingtheMuse]

If you're never supposed to base trade a Terran, what are you never supposed to do with Protoss? Or Zerg?

[@NealHoltschulte]

Never leave the door open against Zerg

[@NealHoltschulte]

Never… play as Protoss

[@SpreadingtheMuse]

@@NealHoltschulte Oh that's too far. That's always been my favorite race. ;) At least we can say...never send a bio ball against 10 colossi. Gotta give them something.

[@NealHoltschulte]

@@SpreadingtheMuse Never let protoss build 12 carriers

[@mrdrwdry]

new! jimmy! 1284 likes! count me in. hahaha

[@mrdrwdry]

240th like btw.

[@djiexn]

Why Zealots thumb they was buffed?

[@MasterSwisher]

Don't remove forcefield, just make it so protoss can move through them, so they're actually viable.

[@mihairo83]

Protoss is back!

[@bekasiblis9540]

The only problem with starcraft 2 are the ghosts and widow mine, Ghosts should have less hp just like in starcraft 1, remove emp then putback lockdown

[@paulknighton3013]

Should I stay or should I go now? If I stay there will be trouble. If I go there could be double!

[@nigellax454]

Protoss army supply: 66. Terran army supply: 6. Dunno about that doubt :p 😊

[@LucianDevine]

Real Terrans don't need mech or other silly upgrades! All they need are drugs and guns!

[@varentou5993]

A byunker haha

[@carlthegamer9215]

gg

[@Pridemare]

your voice is funny

[@Quik_Gaming]

As someone who doesn’t play SC2 but enjoys the replays, can anyone explain why, in PvT, Protoss doesn’t build a stargate for Void Rays or Phoenixes when going against bio/medivacs to directly attack medivacs that are healing the bio ball?

[@julianfarnam6246]

Haven't played in a long time but I'm pretty sure that many marines will just melt the void ray before it kills the medivac

[@cousinpatsey2471]

Marines mostly. Stargate units really cant trade cost effectively, especially if theyre killing the medivacs instead of dps units.

[@Wwillswords]

It adds complexity and more apm for little reward as marines outrange everything except tempest. So to keep them alive requires lots of micro to hit from the side where marines/cyclone aren't and then you might only get one.

[@Quik_Gaming]

Thank to everyone. I appreciate the responses

[@broastedgarlic7354]

30:22 "There's only one siege tank." Uh, akchually, there were two siege tanks. gotteeem

[@andrinhirschi3829]

1284

[@KalebSmart]

Me: Wasn't herO building a mothership? I swear I saw that in the production tab... Winter: MOTHERSHIP RECALL Oh

[@FlokiTech]

I hate when Terran players suicide their vikings after killing the colossus just for the protoss player to make more colossus and they just insta lose. Just keep the damn vikings alive and you win easy!!!!!!

[@Aerational]

Disruptors need a nerf.

[@kudohlol9379]

its the only thing helping P in T xD?

[@Wwillswords]

Alright let's give colossus a comparable buff

[@champchamp156]

This A move terran army is ridicoulus. As a protoss you have to pull all kind of tricks to beat the most basic units of terran . BTW I want to see 1 balance change in this matchup . The ghost EMP shouldn'T half the life of the protoss units .

[@TheMHB199]

What a move terran army lol? Protoss is far more capable of a moving (depending on composition) than terran. Also most protoss units have less than a third or even a quarter of their total hp as shields so wiping out half their hp isnt really accurate. Also the shields auto regen quicker than you think. Get empd just disengage for 30 seconds and most of your units are back to full. Obviously easier said than done and if terran can force the engage whilst the shields are down they have a good advantage from it.

[@TheGamebreaker1234]

when did someone that is usually hyperaggressive with mass medivac drops like byuN start to play like that where you do nothing the entire game and turtle on 3 bases and never expand until your main and second are mined out. hero didnt even harass him. no zealot run bye no storm drops nothing and byun decides to just not expand and not take any map control at all. not even checking if maybe hero has more than 3 bases after 15 minutes. runs into other bases by complete accident and realizes "wait my opponent has more than 3 bases?". sits in base for almost 20 minutes like a bronze and waits for protoss to just mass carriers. this is the biggest fall of of one of the best starcraft players of all time and it pains me. this was platinum level of play by byun at best ...

[@FlokiTech]

Byun seems to be his own biggest enemy. Could have sent 2 medivacs in the second and third game and would have done huge damage to the greedy bases of HerO

[@primary2630]

Let me know when you're past diamond and playing against byun

[@TheGamebreaker1234]

sorry if i offended you kiddo but facts are facts. I was expecting some fanboy to get salty anyway XD@@primary2630

[@wuschu5563]

It's becouse his early agression failed hard, and was against blink stalkers. If he sends something out and it's intercepted by blink stalkers, Hero can just walk in and kill him. If it doesn't get killed immediately, it will still most likely be deflected by blink stalkers with minimal damage. Best case scenario he catches Hero off guard, commits the medivac and maybe kills 6 probes and a shield battery, maybe force a recall, that's it. But that accomplishies nothing as Hero has more bases and more economy so he recovers more quickly. Byon took his best bet (still a shitty one), of bunkiering down and hoping hero will overcommit on the offense. As you saw, Byoun managed to push out and go back on the offensive against Hero, but lost against a new wave of tech (carriers). Even if Byoun expected some carriers, he probably counted that there would be like 3, not 10. Still, if Byoun managed to catch that 5 carriers wave at 41:00, i think he could make a comeback. it was still a somewhat close game played by pros, not a metal league match, where your opponent can't micro against 2 medivacs at the same time.

[@TheGamebreaker1234]

blink stalkers in a pro game is no excuse to spend 20 minutes inside your 3 bases turtling and doing nothing when you have a gigtantic bio ball throughout the entire game, nor do blink stalkers prevent him from doing medivac drops in heros natural or fouth or fifht base. or not doing medivac drops in any of the 3 games at all. you can still do mine drops even after the patch yet he didnt do that either he just decided to do nothing for 3 entire games because 5 blink stalkers showed early and were a mil inconvenience in only the early game. @@wuschu5563

[@REDRAGON12345]

Terran crazy underpowered now. Looking forward to the next update where they actually get a couple of buffs

[@wuschu5563]

xDD

[@cesarromeronoriega8749]

Well terran is dead

[@primary2630]

Why cause cyclone and widow mine got very light nerf?

[@shaunkiyabu2707]

Good now almost we need to wait for is a marine nerf and the game will be balanced

[@_Kroaken_]

​@@primary2630and an armory buff

[@joeb787]

honestly its a very bad patch, map pool is horrible and the match ups are broken and in team match, 9/10 you get a teammate that is 2 3 league lower than you so it makes it impossible to win

[@Terracronz]

The 5 new maps are not great, they’re all gimmicky and are gonna need specific builds per map per matchup. I think they’re trying to make it more casual but it’s like too late in SC2s lifecycle for this.

[@saltking2133]

The amount of times i'll play an advanced macro build in Post-Youth just to get rolled by some loser massing Battlecruisers is genuinely making me pissed. Now im rushing Vikings every match regardless of matchup 😭

[@hivetech4903]

Team match? 😂You will also be terrible.

[@aloe7794]

Noone frankly cares about the Team game ladder since it's impossible to balance

[@alx2903]

widow mines now are so trash

[@leeherbie7840]

@WinterStarcraft “all along the watchtower against the storm” too sharp good sir def my number 1 sc2 streamer ❤