Korean Language Professor Breaks Down Squid Game’s Subtitles | WIRED

[@supersobhy1]

The hyung scene all of sudden is 100 times "sadder" now

[@tiacho2893]

That is one of the things that doesn't translate literally. Korean has an embedded status in so many of its words and linguistic constructions. Translation into English gets complicated because there's no true equivalent to reflect this. So, hyung connotes respect and familiarity that makes the betrayal worse.

[@terasrumahdiy5184]

true!

[@ahub87]

@@tiacho2893 it depends on the culture...in some English speaking countries people will use “Brother” to address non-related males...if they are close. I think if they would have put “Call me Sang Woo or Brother” and then captioned him calling out Brother” it would have had a closer effect. I figured “Hyung” meant something similar to “Brother” or “Close friend” but the caption would have been nice.

[@MM-ud1xf]

@@ahub87 I agree. It would have been that much more powerful to have Ali call him brother. It seems like they didn’t think they show was going to be so popular so they didn’t spend much time on the true meaning of the dialogue.

[@뚜비뚜밥-t9k]

@@ahub87 nonono. not sang-woo or hyung, it's a sang-woo hyung. different. '형, 누나, 언니, 오빠'는 정말 광범위한 의미를 내포하고 있습니다. 1. 가족간에 쓰일 때, 2. 인간관계에서 상대방과의 관계성을 나타낼 때(상대방이 나보다 나이가 많은지, 남성인지 여성인지), 3. 가족은 아니지만 가족처럼 깊은 관계를 맺을 때(의형제). 여기사 상우와 알리의 관계는 서로 쌍방통행이 아닙니다. 상우->알리 일 때 상우는 '형'을 2.로 받아들였고, 알리->상우 일 때 알리는 3.의 의미로 '형'을 사용합니다.

[@monisharmuk]

The professor was so embarrassed saying the bad words. She explained beautifully. But I think the actors were brilliant and even if at times the meaning was lost in the translation, their expressions conveyed a lot.

[@GustafXI]

I’m pretty sure we didn’t need more reason to be depressed

[@jameslever3497]

Agreed. This video didn't realy challenge my interpretation of the communication between the characters in the show. Except for the Ali stuff, that was very insightful!

[@KennethCoronado]

@Dariel Rojas Homero diciendo "anda la osa". 😆

[@rur8480]

yeah, like they're cursing with all their might and the translations are like swearing nine year olds.

[@christian2i]

Bad words are for them poors eh. Bit classiest habitus

[@DanniShelton]

in conclusion: i still can’t forgive sang-woo for what he did to ali

[@padmanavbora7653]

Welcome to the real world, if it comes to survival everyone turns animal

[@annemaeromero1469]

@@padmanavbora7653 Yea, but he betrayed the protagonist in the drawing part. He's really evil, I think.

[@speeedfreee3896]

What would you do? There is no friends in squid game that is implied at the start and when your life is on the line you will do anything to survive its human nature and has kept us alive so we should be thankful

[@padmanavbora7653]

@@annemaeromero1469 you're right he is EVIL but he did it for his own survival. he knows the protagonist is above the avg in the games and might be a threat to him, so he wants to take him asap.

[@MIMINOSEC]

You would do the same thing duh

[@soull6714]

I actually understand the difficulty that translators found in giving the exact meaning . Because there's no words in English that could give the exact same meaning that korean speakers understands .

[@henloworld514]

eh… the translators could have done better. I feel like the translators for squid game left out way too much meaning and nuance. I’m a Korean American myself and I constantly found myself being put off by how inaccurate some of the subtitles were. I really wish Netflix payed more attention to giving more accurate subtitles and added translation notes to those interested in learning more and translations of words that are in the backgrounds of scenes in addition to the dialogue, especially since Netflix has the money to do so

[@mimoogreat9510]

But they did a bad job with this one.. they could do better

[@soull6714]

This is how translation is , it's never 100% accurate .

[@weirdofromhalo]

@@mimoogreat9510 They really didn't. The one area they could have improved is the swearing, though.

[@pennyinheaven]

I don't mind address terms. It's just hard. But everything else...I'm not fluent in Korean but I'm familiar with the most simple ones and there are phrases I'm familiar with that could've been translated better.

[@TheDanaYiShow]

Netflix: *people dying every episode* Also Netflix: "the subtitles have to be pg"

[@Newfox2053]

Wait a minute… why are you here

[@matthewv789]

Good point. I have noticed that Squid Game isn’t actually more violent than a lot of other TV shows or movies in terms of number of people killed, but we feel the violence much more. The violence isn’t sanitized and the characters anonymized the way most other shows handle killings, which is why we feel such shock at each one. So it is interesting that any of the language translations would have sanitized the profanity.

[@TheDanaYiShow]

@@Newfox2053 why is anyone anywhere? :o

[@BamaShanks]

I've noticed that before on a lot of subtitles. Someone will say the f word but in the subtitles it will skip it. If I have the ability to read and I'm watching an R rated movie who are they protecting? I never understood it.

[@takumorisaki2828]

ironic, isn’t it?

[@Vanessa4x1]

She couldn't have said it better , it's super hard to have an real translation. This is something MOST of the non English speaking people know for a fact : Translated movies are not accurate .

[@yunahnam]

As a fellow interpreter/translator, I totally agree with her. it's extremely difficult to tiptoe the line of providing too much and providing just enough, especially since there are character limits and how much a person can actually read when the subs are on screen. Even in literary translation, there are professional debates about how much intext/footnote context should be given and how much should the translator allow the reader to discover for themselves.

[@serinawong3019]

Also one really good example of people believing the translation is true when someone gets a tattoo in a different language believing it says something like "bravery, courage" or some sort of thing like that but when someone of the native language see it and says "that says toaster"

[@slipperyclam5448]

I'm pretty sure this is something almost anyone with a moderate education (i.e. middle school) knows to be true. This is not a revelation to English speakers. Most English speakers had to learn the basics of a secondary language in school, and even if they didn't become proficient in (or even retain) that language, they still understood that translation between any two languages can be extremely challenging. This is especially true when it comes to cultural idioms and colloquialisms. We can even see this happen between two people of different generations who speak the same language.

[@jasonwaterman5570]

"This is something MOST of the non English speaking people know for a fact : Translated movies are not accurate" Absolutely hilarious that you would (seemingly) suggest native English speakers don't understand that translations aren't accurate. As if we can't immediately pick up on that when consuming foreign media. 🤦‍♂

[@hridaansari4883]

The more I watch Kdramas and hear words which I can grasp, for example as she said- the curse words aren't normally translated directly to what they really mean and I get it, they're often sanitized for the sake of young audiences. But most of the time a huge chunk or part of the story vaporizes when the exact emotion is not conveyed through subtitles the way they should be. Sometimes, I am left confused at the English translations too lol 😂

[@tyrant-den884]

Tons of horrific slaughter and even some nudity. Netflix: "Gotta keep those subtitles appropriate."

[@potatoemaster1049]

@Human Rights ur so racist

[@Ratzo123ify]

That "even" insinuates that the nudity would be worse than the slaughter, which is quite funny to me.

[@unknowns78]

@@Ratzo123ify I mean in the film genre it's viewed as "worse" in the vulgar aspect.

[@Ratzo123ify]

@@unknowns78 Only in America

[@unknowns78]

@@Ratzo123ify I guess

[@Xatalla]

The big issue with translating languages like Korean and Japanese into English is that both languages are hierarchical, so its hard to convey that. But I believe there could have been far more accuracy than there was in the show, especially for the insults

[@Michael-dj6pd]

Well not neccesarilly, if we switch to more formal older english we could find words. Although, we might need to revive some dead words.

[@bbcmotd]

Why would we need "baby animal" insults? That wouldn't have made any sense.

[@JishinimaTidehoshi]

At the end of the day, does it make a huge difference? I think it's nitpicking. It's not just about translating, it's also about understanding the culture. For example, I've seen old subtitled Chinese movies and the word Tofu was translated as bean curd. Now, personally I prefer the word tofu (and tofu is popular now). But once upon a time maybe tofu was not popular, so that's why it was translated as bean curd.

[@윤세정-l7f]

@@bbcmotd in korean language 개(dog) is portrayed as something useless, fake, or worthless, like 개살구(dog+plum, which is a term for a fruit that isn't sweet and hard to eat, so fake plum) so 개새끼 means that you are a "fake" child, which means your mother had an affair whith somebody and...ya know.. thats what it first ment, but the nuances were faded as the language changed.

[@kk-rp6yw]

@@윤세정-l7f WHAT?????? 개새끼 Is calling someone a dog's child. In other words "son of a b****".

[@LuvzToLol21]

I've often heard it said that "translation is easy, localization is hard." Eg. What Sang-woo said may literally translate to "call me big brother", but the challenge comes in putting that into words that non-Koreans would understand while preserving the meaning.

[@meow-vk7uq]

Ohh that’s interesting. I didn’t know they refer to that part as “localization”

[@Smittenhamster]

And with English your localisation is not limited to just one country like German would be for example. If you translate into English then nuances may still be well understood in the UK but get lost on an American audience for example.

[@samanthav3141]

I think if K-Dramas often translated the "Big Brother" (and other titles), the non-Korean speakers would start to pick up on the important use and meaning of those terms. So much is lost when they translate "Big Brother" into the simple first name. It can be done sometimes because it can get confusing if everyone is only using titles. Subtitle reader still needs to know who is being addressed.

[@jonathangoliath91]

real translation is never easy. neither is communication.

[@weirdofromhalo]

localization _is_ translation. Direct translation is not translation.

[@tukpaegi]

I think it has a slightly deep meaning when Ali says "Sajangnim." In Korea, for ordinary koreans, "Sajangnim" is one of respectful expressions for a man who met for the first time. However Ali is a very poor migrant worker in the show. For him, most of the other men have a higher social class than himself. Ali always says "Sajangnim" because he knows that he is the lowest class person. This is similar to calling someone 'My Lord' in old Western culture.

[@user-ce4lz4jj1d]

this is perfect description.

[@boscohan9405]

Perfectly agreed that’s exactly what I thought :)

[@쿱스-v5x]

한국인인 제가 느낀 것을 말씀드릴께요. 상대를 높이는 단어는 여러개가 있지만 뉘앙스가 다를 수 있습니다. 저는 알리가 상우를 "사장님"이라고 부를 때, 상황에 맞지 않는 단어 선택이라 생각했습니다. 그래서 그 케릭터가 한국 문화에 익숙하지 않을 것이라는 것과 공장에서 일하는데 필요한 한정된 단어를 사용하는 것을 보고 노동자라 유추할 수 있었어요.

[@burn_out]

@@쿱스-v5x you nailed it

[@izeberamia]

​@@쿱스-v5x 저도 그렇게 생각해요. 재가 한국어를 처음 배웠을 때 모르는 모든 사람들에게 "선생님"이라고 불어야 한다고 배웠어요. 그래서 알리도 "사장님"밖에 몰랐을 수도 있어요.

[@HAVgiraffe]

Ali's death is a billion times for heartbreaking. Are you kidding me!

[@Fliprrr]

I cried watching this 😭😭😭

[@joewas2225]

Seriously, over that level of manipulation? Anyone who falls for that level prior to 33 years old does not deserve sympathy.

[@laramiaizz]

@@joewas2225 deserving sympathy..

[@justinray6839]

*more

[@vitamins3039]

@@joewas2225 who are you ranting about ?

[@JennieAhn]

Oppa, when it's extended to other social relationships outside the family, is not only used for romantic relationships but also for normal friendships between a girl and an older guy as well.

[@rosean374]

Non Korean women have recently hijacked that word to fetishize korean men. (👁👄👁 Oppaaaaa)

[@bzuku9554]

@@rosean374 fact

[@user_IVVVI]

as a Korean who helps out foreign learners of Korean, I see so many of them came to know 'oppa' as a romantic address term FIRST (and only). Actually what's worse is when they ask what it is (in a context with such uasge) I've seen many Koreans simply say "it's what you call your boyfriend" (or even husband) and don't explain it further… 😩

[@xantiom]

However, you only say oppa if you are actually close to a person. But the lady in the series was saying oppa to attempt to seduce with some feigned egyo. The way she was using it was more couple-like rather than friendship.

[@pachanas703]

As a Korean speaker, I'm really grateful to you guys for making this video! I can save myself time and send the link to my friends when they ask me questions. 🤣

[@madeofcastiron]

same here. i can save time on explaining to my friends why the subs aren't that good, and my friends don't have to listen to me rant for like 10 minutes lol

[@gamingparadise3390]

@@madeofcastiron should i watch the dub instead?

[@madeofcastiron]

@@gamingparadise3390 in my honest opinion, don't watch it in dub. the dubbing is really subpar (lacking emotions, awkward delivery, strange translations). though the english subs (not english cc, the cc is the caption of the english dubbing) may lack nuance, the meaning is good enough. also, listening to the original korean actors' voices will help convey the heaviness of their words at the emotional scenes.

[@lala4054]

@@madeofcastiron i agree ..i dont like watching the dubbed version of foreign movies it just feel weird ..:D

[@madeofcastiron]

@@성이름-s6q5n "rant" means "talk angrily and complain about something for a long time" e.g. my friend *rant* to me about her terrible manager many times. i think she should just quit her job. i hope the explanation is clear!

[@anpanman99]

As a Japanese-English translator, I think videos like this are the perfect solution for conveying additional "footnote" type information for people who want to know more. Filling up the screen with long subtitles or translator's notes that people have to pause to read is not the answer. I love googling a movie after I have watched it and finding out more details and easter eggs and funny trivia about the show. I don't need all of that information plastered on the screen while I'm watching it.

[@JishinimaTidehoshi]

Absolutely right. I've seen some fansubs with footnotes, as someone who's curious about the culture footnotes are interesting to me. But they are incredibly tedious for my family who's just trying to follow what's going on on screen. LOL

[@no_peace]

I don't think that is necessary to give English speaking viewers the gist more completely than these subtitles did

[@dorothyl5294]

I came here to say something similar! I can’t help but feel like the video would go differently if they would’ve had a translator talk about the subtitles instead of a teacher. Translation is about conveying meaning & not necessarily in a literal sense

[@largetoast]

I disagree. I would prefer as literal a translation as possible. So much can get lost because of one translator’s subjective opinions about meaning and cultural differences. That’s how we end up with things like biased Odyssey translations. And a global audience could have learned sooooo much more about Korean culture with just a slightly more literal translation. That’s a huge missed opportunity.

[@anpanman99]

@@largetoast what would a literal English translation of a word like “hyung” even look like?

[@tubthungusbychumbungus]

They should do what fansubs typically do, when there is a word that doesn't translate, they keep the original word and add an asterisk to explain the term. Yes it asks more of the viewer but it doesn't dumb anything down

[@dfjulesful]

Totally agreed! That's how I learned about Korean terms like hyung etc

[@thairinkhudr4259]

That's the ideal way as we are people of culture (😂) but mainstream consumers hate even normal subtitles with a passion, that's why I doubt this revolutionary idea will ever make is past fansubs or fantranslations. These fantranslators deserve the best tho. 👑

[@Smittenhamster]

I mean there's English subs for people that are hard of hearing so why not English subs for people who are just linguistically interested

[@JW-ws4op]

This might be more doable with written media like manga or novels, but with a TV show, the subtitles are only on screen for a few seconds, which makes it more difficult for the audience to read the translation notes.

[@okitasan]

it really made me remember and appreciate the informality of fansubs. When I was consuming a lot of anime in my teenage years, fansubs probably taught me more about Japanese cultural nuance than the things I learned in my school classes. Same for k-dramas.

[@Mauchoxen]

Watching the series I thought "wow, their first names sound nothing like the written version" I understand now why they didn't, they weren't saying the names!

[@kentpaper958]

It's hard to get romanized korean on a first look though. There's many different pronouns in Korean so it's tricky shifting those pronouns in alphabet. You have to know the rules (or patterns) of it to read it right way.

[@delfasimletsplays3445]

@@kentpaper958 As a non-native-englisch speaker i find it very hard to read the romanization, because in german i would pronounce it VERY differently. I now learned the korean alphabet and find it even easier to "translate" the englisch romanized names to hangul in my head and then try to pronnouce it correctly :D And yes, this sounds very stupid

[@matthewv789]

I’ve noticed this often in Korean tv and movies, so it’s nice to learn why (and start learning the specific terms used so I can understand them).

[@nallyaaaaaa]

lol i can imagine you thinking 'huh, i didn't know sangwoo is pronounced as hyung....'

[@GetUnwoke]

I imagine you were extremely confused during the scene when the detective says "Hyung" but the subtitle says "InHo" 😂😂

[@karatexperience]

2:10 So the dub must've said "Just call me bro"

[@__kyle]

Correct.

[@Guckkasten85]

As a translator myself (Korean -> German) I really had to laugh, because we have often these types of discussions in our teams for words which apply to these society ranks in the languages, use of dialects, or having to choose between literal translations and localisations which sometimes then are less subtle then the original. It is always a balancing act. Translators also often/sometimes only get scripts without contexts or without seeing the video/gamescene so the emotions are also sometimes not really known... whoever did the subs though did a decent job =)

[@xgfreedom]

Well as a Korean who speaks 4 languages but fails miserably translating for others give you mad respect for translating korean to german.... I was fine with most of the subtitles as we all know it is impossible to translate anything 100% in accuracy(since language lives with culture and history) I find dumbing down their swearing was questionable choice in my opinion...

[@amirnazery]

wait so you speak english, korean AND german? Cool!

[@NekoHibaCosplay]

I am amazed by german language, because some words when are spoken often sounds like swearing while you're sneezing, like Sehnsucht, Brötchen and Kreuzschlitzschraubenziehe

[@yunahnam]

Haha I totally understand XD we had whole debates over it during Translation classes in grad school .

[@kk-rp6yw]

If you are a translator you should differentiate between "then" and "than"..

[@khazz33]

The actress that played Han Mi-nyeo did a great job conveying the "low-class-ness" of her character

[@Wattywatasaurus]

I read somewhere that Han Mi-Nyeo is apparently the biggest sacrifice of the language barrier, because to a non-Korean speaker, she comes across as being deranged and rather weird, when in reality she’s just meant to be coarse and earthy, a bit like what we in Britain would call a chav. And that actually makes a lot of sense - I’m fairly sure a lot of non-English speakers wouldn’t pick up the nuances and social connotations of a chav character in a story, such as the characters in the movie Fish Tank, and would view them in much the same way.

[@CathyGoes]

I'm a monolingual English speaker and more trashy than crazy was the impression I got of her.

[@Tanya.2007]

The marble episode was the saddest episode honestly also when they discovered that they're playing against each other and not together was shocking

[@penguinchilli6244]

Oh man I can’t watch that Ali marble scene again - it was one of the most heartbreaking scenes I’ve ever watched

[@YakuiMeido]

I saw it a week ago and I'm still not okay.

[@cloudpunk3440]

Korean here. If some girl that u thought not close with u enough and suddenly called u as "Oppa" just like "Han Mi Neyo" in the show. Most Korean native male probably would think that chick is hitting on me now. So the description in the video was quiet accurate. The translation was good enough but sometimes it did not deliver the cultural prospective as much as original language.

[@RNGeeGee]

It's the translation vs localization problem. For example, the scene at 1:46. A more accurate translation would be "Then just call me bro." But it wouldn't make sense for Sang-woo to use that kind of language.

[@pauwula]

@@RNGeeGee the thing is that localization *is* translation (speaking as a translator myself)

[@RNGeeGee]

@@pauwula Kind of... Localization is a part of translation, but translation does not always involve localization; you can translate things very literally.

[@joejoe6611]

Oppa is an honorific word used only when women call men.Basically, it is a concept that is only allowed when they are in close relationships with each other.And it can only be used for older brothers, friends, relatives, and lovers.If a woman older than me calls me oppa, most Korean men will doubt and feel burdened by her intentions.

[@lavane26]

So when Mi-nyeo called Gi-hun 'oppa', what is it? What does it mean, or what is she trying to accomplish?

[@자수정-m2n]

@@lavane26 she was doing the exact same thing to what she was doing to Duksoo. cmiiw, I think she was trying to become his partner at the time, if that was correct, then she just trying a short cut to get a partner

[@joejoe6611]

@@lavane26 She wanted a strategic alliance with someone to protect her.If possible, a strong person would be suitable.What she calls OPPA and approaches intimately is the first essential action to achieve that goal.

[@PavlosViscacha]

So like PAPI

[@sarahhchan]

@@lavane26 Agreed. She’s trying to force intimacy and act like they’re close when they are not, in an attempt to build relationships that may help her survive - and then you can see it makes Gihun uncomfortable because he’s like ?? I literally don’t know you, ma’am-vibes

[@ymmy-op7ut]

It's not that important, but the Korean title of episode 1 is "The Day when Mugunghwa Flowers Bloomed." This is because Red Light and Green Light are called "Mugunghwa flowers bloomed" in Korea. So the title of the episode would be "the day when the traffic light blinked." in English. Because, It is in line with the last episode, "One Lucky Day."

[@TomNook.]

thank you oppa

[@챡낭독]

it is is important. The eng sub/dub was trash.

[@자고가]

@@TomNook. ㅋㅋㅋ

[@밤-p8p]

@@TomNook. oh no...

[@cheese5414]

@@TomNook. lol

[@ZebstrikaGirl]

These parts I all paused and explained to my boyfriend because he studied Japanese and I studied Korean. When we watch anime he explains things I didn't get but this time it was my turn to do so and I took advantage of it. Especially when I understood a situation before he did.

[@elmosanica]

Years of watching Kdrama/variety shows, I prefer Hyung/Oppa/Noona/Eonni are stated as it is rather than translated into English. It has too big of the relationship difference.

[@mariri-510]

I totally agree but also, since this went so viral worldwide even to a huge audience that had never watched korean shows, I think they'd confused by these words

[@elmosanica]

@@mariri-510 yes it is hard, idk if they can add "Hyung (Older Brother)" at the very first use, that the more use it has, the more people catch what that means

[@suju4u219]

Ikr. And some people in the comments are saying 'oh why don't they just the direct translation?' but I really just think it will sound weird. Like when Ali got betrayed by Sangwoo in the marble game and he is calling out to sangwoo like 'hyung, sangwoo hyung!' (sad scene ik) if you direct translate it in the translation it will sound like 'brother! Sangwoo brother!' or if it is really direct translated 'older brother! Sangwoo older brother!' it just sound weird lmao

[@Walkingindestinyandpurpose]

They should have used the above with an asterisk, like hyung* so that in the ending credits they could explain what the terms mean, same for Ahjumma and hearing “nim” a lot to guess that the convo has become more formal.

[@Katie08822]

@@elmosanica Even then, people with zero real exposure to any Asian culture would find it confusing and inaccessible. They wouldn’t understand why they’re using “big brother” instead of first names. The implied hierarchy and respect might even feel stiff and formal, which is the opposite of the actual meaning. It’s difficult to translate all those social rules in a way that makes any sense to someone with a completely different set of social rules.

[@needsanewbrain]

as a linguistics student interested in learning new languages, i think the nuances of translation are part of what drew me to studying languages. the cultural differences that affect how language is used are so cool, and it's really interesting seeing that broken down here. language is awesome.

[@Yuunarichu]

If only Wired would do this with many other popular non-English shows!! I would love more language analysis with "inconsistencies"/lost in translation.

[@d_zhanshi9636]

same

[@kgonzales4474]

I like how she acknowledges the difficulty of conveying the original meaning when people who don't even speak Korean are even more critical and wanted oppa to be translated literally as older brother.

[@matthewcronin1415]

Translators have to balance literal translation against translation of intent all the time. Changing "Hyung" to Sang-woo's first name is a great example of this done, in my opinion quite well. Hyung conveys a feeling of increased closeness, where in English not using any titles, using only the first name, does (or used to do, anyway) something similar. Of course, this also breaks down because first-name-only use has become the norm in almost every situation. Absence of hierarchy or formality in social English makes this just impossible, but I can get why they'd use first names as a proxy, because it's probably the only thing even close in English.

[@lavacaqueri5454]

I used to watch a bunch of subbed anime when I was younger. I don't know if this only applies to Brazilian subs, but translators used to add a bunch of notes to the translation to convey the subtleties in honorifics and other cultural differences. Most of this translations were made by volunteer fans and where miles ahead of Netflix subs I don't understand why they can't add this to "standard" shows.

[@chelseagirl278]

Too complex for your average viewer 😂

[@kellylyons1038]

I have seen some anime where they translate a word that just doesnt exist in English. But it has to be brief, because you are also watching action/listening to dialogue. Sounds like for these examples that might be more challenging. I wish they had at least tried! 😭 Some nuance is better than none.

[@esverker7018]

No I remember seeing that in English subs too. Smaller type in a different color that would pop up like a footnote explaining what "kouhai" was or something. Only issue was that it went by too fast so I'd have to pause to read it. The lady in this video was right about the limitations of reading speed lol

[@weirdofromhalo]

You might be in favor of honorifics, but they just seem odd to keep in English, since we don't have postposition honorifics. And I don't think it's necessary to keep that nuance, as it doesn't apply to the language you're translating to. You might keep it for a different reason, like it's hard to show changing attitudes in any other way, but I view them as poor ways to do translation.

[@rimun5235]

Problem is Netflix has so many international shows and if like me, you’ve watched many, having to read notes becomes homework every time you watch a show. I love the notes though when I’m interested in a culture. I love Chinese period pieces and the fan subs with notes really do shed color but sometimes you have to pause videos to read it and it requires patience. There are too many idioms that just aren’t translatable.

[@mariri-510]

I'm intermediate in korean (not good enough to watch a whole show without eng subs) so while listening to the korean dialogue and reading the subs I was like "oh this is not right,," jkdfgk it's very interesting to watch like a whole breakdown of it. Specially oppa, I (accidentally) watched it with the ENG [CC] subs and she was calling him "old man" which was SO odd. But as a spanish/english speaker I find korean a very hard language to translate, so I understand why some choices were made haha. (Not for the dubs tho wth was that)

[@AkunoRaion]

It's as simple as the lip flaps fitting 'Old man' best. It's not the most accurate translation, but the dub actors have to match the syllables to the original and the script has to reflect that. Not to defend the Squid Game dub because it's, er, special. But that's just a general rule of dubs, and is much stricter in live-action than animation.

[@littlemissmello]

@@AkunoRaion ENG [CC] was a different kind of sub. I always watch with cc subs because they're for the hearing impaired, they're usually more accurate and don't shorten things out etc. I prefer Old Man over Babe but only because it lowkey grosses me out less but I did cringe every time I read it. I watched it with my mum and brother and I kept pausing to explain why the subs didn't really capture what was up but they got annoyed with me after a while and soon enough you realize that people understand well enough what's happening even if the subs don't always make sense or are a 100%

[@AkunoRaion]

@@littlemissmello The CC captions are meant for the English dub whereas the subs are for the original Korean. I personally have not watched Squid Game at all, to be perfectly honest, but that's what closed caption vs subs means.

[@emiiiilyxx]

i’m currently learning korean (intermediate) and i picked up on a lot of this. there’s a lot of character development, nuances, and more, being missed simply because of the language barrier. it’s just one of the many reasons i love the depth of linguistics… 신기한데~!

[@RyansSynthwaveGuitar]

Squid Game was actually a show about adults learning to make strawberry juice and test out track suits, but it was translated so badly it looked like people playing games and dying if they failed.

- The character: "Oppa" - Subtitle: "Older brother" (who isn't her blood brother, but she thought that he's older than her, and she quite likes him and she was trying to get him to like her)

[@Dalziel45]

aaaand it still doesnt convey the romantic side of the term lool US viewers might mistaken get sweet alabama vibes too lmaoo

[@TheJadedJames]

There was basically no way to accurately translate “Oppa” without a footnote because there is no equivalent term in English that carries the exact same familial and romantic implications

[@clamcopeland]

the subtitle says 'babe,' not older brother

[@beom1141]

Yah, there is exactly different nuance between 사장님(Sajang+nim) and 형(Hyung) alongside 선생님. First Ali didn't call him 형, just 사장님. But later ali starts to call him 형, which means that he starts to believe him and recognize him as something valuable.

[@KatBlaque]

Maybe it's because I've watched a lot of Korean Cinema at this point but I felt all of this when I was watching it. I'm still leaning tho

[@confit]

Lean into me, shawty.

[@라임바라]

Does anybody know how Fury's "mother..." in the last scene of Infinity War was translated in Korean? It said "어머니" in the subtitles which literally means "mother". Some people thought Captain Marvel could be his mother lol it was a terrible translation

[@veronicac.9424]

That's terrible 🤣

[@hezkycahyadi4121]

LMAO I understand it's confusing for non-english speakers. In that scene, Fury doesn't call out to his mother nor did he called Captain Marvel "mother". That's him swearing, he was going to say "mother-f*cker" but he vanished before finishing the word. TLDR: it's an unfinished swear word.

[@kentpaper958]

@@hezkycahyadi4121 It even became meme 'Devoted Son, Fury' which goes like: "He worried about his mama at the moment of death. What a devoted son🥺"

[@dcforever550]

Guess the translator missed the beginning of the f sound. Or the script (or subs) was written as "mother" instead of "mother f~"

[@fanta5778]

아 시발… 또는 아 썅으로 번역 됬어야했음

[@Ellianu]

It's not about the actual quality of translation, but what's "Lost in translation" when one culture isn't used to what other culture finds norm, like the common use of honorifics.

[@pango9519]

Just like she said, there's just not enough time to explain the concept in a way that's normal while also having a translation that feels somewhat natural. Like with "Oppa", "Babe" is probably one of the most accurate translations they could have picked but even then, the comment about age seemed to come out of left field when I viewed it because we lack that context in the translation.

[@moonlight-im8ik]

Could've just kept the "oppa" and "hyung" and explain context on top of the screen. Like they do on illegal streaming websites

[@weirdofromhalo]

Yeah same problem in Chinese and Japanese translations. Do you keep honorifics or not?

[@weirdofromhalo]

@@pango9519 Coulda picked "daddy" like it's used sexually.

[@Makjaoiuewhxkjs]

@@moonlight-im8ik You need to pause the show to understand it then, and this is not good practice in subs. The mainstream audience does not want that. Well, the mainstream audience often hates any kind of subs, but the ones you need to pause for especially. So sadly when you watch in translation you just need to accept that some things are going to be lost. It's basically impossible for nothing to be lost, especially when you translate between very different cultures.

[@Nessainthebuilding]

As someone who watches a lot of Korean media I'm well versed in their honorifics and it cracks me up when I see the translations

[@militarydeviltube5014]

Do u study korean? It sounds good, i like the honorifics

[@iluvzurara2]

Same!!

[@mikanjjj6357]

So true!

[@youreirritating9654]

same

[@ijustwantedausername]

Same

[@spicymangooo]

Personally, as someone studying languages I think everyone should know two languages and not gripe on the difficult task translators and interpreters have. It's not an easy skill! I respect the hustle.

[@baph1]

so i am supposed to learn the language of every foreign show i watch cmon

[@mybuttons11]

When you watch so many Korean shows that you know all this already even though you can’t speak Korean to save your life

[@loveitftw]

Lmao

[@Yenny-1014]

Same😅

[@edenlewis2538]

Me

[@laggyy3987]

“Oppa” alone is basically a complex social essay of Korean men-women relationship (if the man and the woman is not related).

[@smallchick7]

@@djisar definitely not th

[@fireflieer2422]

@@djisar using daddy would just be weird. Oppa is used very commonly, whereas daddy seems more like an exclusive term, if that makes sense

[@Em-hr1yx]

“Oppa” is also used among relatives where the man and woman are related

[@didubo508]

It’s legit not. It literally means older “brother” or a dude who is close to you but older than you. That’s why it’s interesting how, she refers to others as oppa even tho a.) she is older, and b.) not close to them

[@god-lt5ki]

Don't spread misinformation.

[@almami1599]

3:28 in the french version of the subtitles they translated Oppa by “my rabbit”

[@Soldierzero0]

I make related contents just like The Wired... i bet 100% you'll like them if not come here to let other people know that. btw amazing content Wired

[@kulik03]

"mon lapin" (my rabbit) is one way of saying "babe" in French

[@oliveranderson7264]

@@kulik03 But it’s really cringy and outdated

[@tilschulz94]

You can call someone "Hase" (bunny/rabbit) as a pet name in german, too. But its typically used by parents or grandparents and not in a romantic way.

[@tiacho2893]

@@tilschulz94 I wonder if that's like "pet" in UK shows/movies; usually said in period pieces or by the older generation. As a speaker of Canadian English, I could never really understand it growing up.

[@HennryK-c5s]

When Ali was calling Sang-u hyoung again and again, Korean or persons who could know the meaning of Hyoung might feel deeper sadness and something emotional.

[@tinechris6241]

어쩔티비

[@RabbitsInBlack]

We don't need to know the real Language to understand that he was looking up to the guy like a brother. And seen the betrayal and that sadness at the end of the scene. We got it in the acting. Language is not everything.

[@loveitftw]

@@RabbitsInBlack not all but a lot and it helps to convey the message even further.

[@RabbitsInBlack]

@@loveitftw BTW because of the Acting in the FIRST EPISODE, I figured out who was the BAD GUY. They gave you so many clues that I guess not everyone picked up. The Smile on that man's face, fun old games. (Hint)

[@loveitftw]

@@RabbitsInBlack yeah small and subtle details are the cherry on top imo👌

[@abul9052]

I’ve been learning Korean using Duolingo for several months now so I was pretty stoked to be able to pick up a lot of those nuances like the hyung part. It’s allowing me to enjoy Korean dramas more generally as well as kpop, especially BTS, which is why I started learning Korean in the first place. Didn’t know the swear words though lol. I wonder if there’s an app for that haha

[@MusicalIrishgrl]

Same except I knew some of the swear words because of BTS (specifically DKDKTV's breakdown of Bapsae) and other kdramas.

[@false_positivity]

i'm a korean native speaker and this is exactly what i thought watching squid game with english subtitles! it's 100% accurate, great job with the video!

[@커프-k9t]

Basically, 'oppa' is about the same age as the user of the word, but it is used both for older men. The point is that, in social relationships other than family, it is a word used only in intimate relationships. therefore, 'oppa' often used even between lovers. The reason Han Mi-nyeo called Jang Deok-soo 'oppa' was an attempt to forcibly give her intimacy (more like a lover). This is the context you can realize when you know Korean.

[@커프-k9t]

In the same principle, 'hyung' is similar to 'oppa', and in social relationships other than family, it is used only in intimate relationships. The difference between 'hyung' and 'oppa' is that men use the word 'hyung' for older men ('oppa' is a word women use for older men). Ali called Sang-woo 'sajangnim'. In addition to its original meaning, it is often used for individuals who are not personally intimate but of unknown status (usually higher than me). This is also the context of expressing changes in intimacy using Korean words.

[@커프-k9t]

Another interpretation is that Ali is a foreign worker and the only higher social status-person he has come across is his real 'sajangnim' (literally the boss). so he may be misrepresenting anyone who appears to have a higher social status than him as 'sajangnim' . The status system in Korean word is very complex and difficult for foreigners. Calling a stranger 'sajangnim' is maybe a very safe choice to Ali as a foreigner.

[@SofiaCavalcante]

would "daddy" be a good translation?

[@rasheednesbitt8667]

In that case ‘babe’ would be the proper translation.

[@HyperSole]

When you're a Kpop fan so you already know of terms like Hyung, Oppa, Noona, and Unnie

[@VanMorbir]

I watched a lot of Korean movies, an as someone who doesnt speak Korean it always boggled my mind to see the subtitles of names, but never actually hearing characters say the name itself. I always thought it's something my anglophone ear can't catch, but it always bothered me. The whole "[Korea] is not a first name culture" and explanation of address titles thing finally answered this question for me.

[@nanudv]

"Many critics, no defenders, translators have but two regrets when they hit no one remembers when they miss no one forgets"

[@lilomorales6181]

As a professional translator, I can say Netflix's subs are horrific in any language because they are not willing to pay enough to hire professional translators. Moreover, the US sub and dub industry is a baby because you're not used to consuming things that are not originally in English, so... However, if you are the kind of person that hopes for a literal, world-by-world translation, let me tell you you are incorrect. The point is to pass on the message to understand what they are talking about, and it's obvious you'll miss a lot.

[@Annaonesun]

One of the most frustrating things about Netflix's subtitles for me it that, as a Swedish person, I've noticed that swedish subtitles for non-english language shows are translated using the english translation, creating some kind of chinese whispers situation. It's ridiculous and I've stopped trying to watch anything with swedish subtitles, just opting for english instead. It's especially frustrating when watching shows in languages I have enough knowledge about to be able to pick up on mistranslations, but don't know well enough to skip the subtitles.

[@paulaecheverriasuarez7577]

In my personal experience, the Spanish subs are way better than the English ones

[@Pidalin]

Professional translators mostly do worse job than fans. Problem with official subbtitles is that it's done by people who are just like workers in factory, but they do translations.

[@lilomorales6181]

@@Annaonesun Yeah... it's a problem. I understand, unfortunatelly.

[@lilomorales6181]

@@paulaecheverriasuarez7577 Yes! We have a good industry that has been going on and perfecting over the years.

[@DelonSerinoVlogs]

I remember that culture also plays a vital role in language translation, and that's gonna be a long discussion.

[@rieskimo]

So basically, a large amount of people are being introduced to translated content for the first time.

[@beckc.5084]

In the italian dub they translated "oppa" with "papino" which literally means "daddy" so their interaction was even more hilarious when he asked her age

[@jacobshin-k4g]

Probably a few weeks later, a new version of Squid Game will be spread, titled "Squid Game; Corrected Subtitles."

[@Lilith_scar]

😂

[@SOOTHSAYERVEGA]

I hope so

[@weirdofromhalo]

Done by people who aren't professional translators, resulting in fan sub levels of bad translation? I hope not.

[@Ratboy900]

I hope she comes back to talk about the subtitles in the second season

[@liamnevilleviolist1809]

It's pretty interesting to me that we're using (English-speaking-people) "Squid Game" as an example of how language can be translated correctly or *not so* / at all correctly. Even in Australia: if you say "Hey buddy!" as opposed to "Hey mate!" or even "Hey bro!" ....they all have different meanings depending on the situation.... and of course, anyone with a brain knows that: SQUID GAME is all about the situation.

[@cottonclouds]

kdrama fans have been complaining about netflix's translations for a while now so i'm glad it's finally being addressed

[@lonekpopper3471]

Honestly, I think the 형 & 오빠 translations were appropriate. The perfect alternative for K-dramas, where most of the viewers know basic korean words, is oppa or hyung, essentially just romanized. The problem is that “Squid Game” was meant to be international and most Americans have never heard those words before, so I think the next best thing is what was used. Imagine how confused you’d be if you’ve never heard those words and saw Ali say “Big brother, where are you?” Or 한미녀 saying “Right, older male whom I am or look to be close to?”. So yeah, I think just “Sang-woo” for 형 and “babe” for 오빠 are the best next thing.

[@vokikas]

The Mandalorian's Squid Game Final Episode »» kzbin.info/www/bejne/e3_dgYaYZc-ar7c

[@isabellegrady4324]

the low-key jab at english-speaking people at the end of the video was kind of a power move, i love her

[@Meomeo-uv6fn]

Im fluent in both languages. Im actually more comfortable in english but i definitively feel limited by the expressions and richer descriptions the korean languages has that simply does not translate to english. Korean is such a sophisticated deep and rich language while still being so simple. Im so thankful im able to appreciate both.

[@MishkaSinghi28]

As someone who speaks more than two languages, I have never had an English word that didn't have any equivalent in the other languages but always words in other languages that had no equivalent in English.

[@RNatesha]

I enjoyed this teaching and breakdown by this professor. You should invite her again. I often sensed the words said in Korean sounds harsher than how it's written in English based on the actor's expressions, tone etc. Great video in my opinion 👍🏼

[@Dcent_K]

This is exactly why I tell people to watch things subbed and try learning a little of that culture before watching something in another language. It’s easy to miss these things when just reading subtitles but even more so when it is dubbed.

[@doplmu4671]

you cant expect people to learn of a culture before watching a tv show, the subbed is enough imo

[@yondabigman4668]

Honestly, It would be good to learn the culture after watching the show. If you are really interested into it

[@esverker7018]

​@@doplmu4671 I think the better expectation would be for people to learn about the culture before opening their mouth to critique it. Multiple times I've seen people write stuff about Korean shows like "it doesn't make any sense that he assumed she was flirting with him, this writing is so bad", because they don't know what "oppa" means. If someone wants to give a legit critique they'd better get their facts straight imo.

[@aniota_god]

translators should translate it in a way that conveys the characters are flirting

[@임성진-p7b]

와....이런 컨텐츠까지 만들어지다니...내용도 좋고 신선하게 느껴져요. 특히 마지막에 한 말씀도 생각이 많아집니다.

[@leonmuller2077]

"Everybody speaks english, even if you go to France!" Nearly died laughing

[@Maomaomahu]

4:48 "son of a B" is maybe more accurate then?

[@aiyohhhh]

Growing up on fan-subs, it really makes me appreciate that style of subbing where rather than replacing all words, they'll just use the romanized version of certain ones to retain cultural connotations. I didn't mind pausing to look at a footnote, it was cool to get cultured.

[@ThePauseMenuVlog]

The Hyung detail is so depressingly interesting

[@sabhinbougia4303]

Still better then completely different dub

[@Soldierzero0]

I make related contents just like The Wired... i bet 100% you'll like them if not come here to let other people know that. btw amazing content Wired

[@sabhinbougia4303]

@@Soldierzero0 shut the fōk up no one asked you to ask subscribers here earn it yourself no matter how good your content is you will get there someday but not like this

[@shaunrexx1403]

@@sabhinbougia4303 LMFAOO

[@DdDd-el8rc]

@@Soldierzero0 your content just screams incel eww

[@loveitftw]

Dubbing should be illegal.

[@ashleywalker3813]

@5.40 - at the very least, her tone conveyed that something more than "scumbag" was intended. The acting and tone actually did that for quite a few of these examples.

[@tada8092]

Agreed. The actress did such a fine job using her body language and intonations there was no doubt as to her character.

[@FHL-Devils]

The dubbed version is a crime against media.

[@angel_izer8134]

Despite not being Korean myself I do notice a lot of difference between the sub and actual dialogues. And I barely know korean

[@OvSpP]

I came here after reading Youngmi Mayer’s opinion on this. Her tweet kind of made me feel inferior for not knowing all the Korean things they were saying. But after watching this it’s more like English doesn’t have the words nor the culture to translate these words into its language.

[@weirdofromhalo]

Assuming you're Vietnamese, you should be able to compare translations and how cultural differences make for difficulties in translation.

[@thealaskanforever]

Please do this for “Narcos: Mexico” I want to know if the subtitles are right also. It’s the biggest Spanish show

[@iluvzurara2]

I’ve watched kdramas for over a decade now and throughout the years I’ve learned these terms so While I knew these words weren’t super accurate I never realized that other non Korean speaking ppl wouldn’t get it eventually within the show hahaha no I’m not fluent at all in Korean I cannot speak it but you definitely get to recognize important words and understand some parts of the cintura that way! Although now looking back subtitles were much more accurate back then on the third party sites pre Netflix. This is the same for a lot of other Korean shows not just squid game. But the more ppl watch and Google on their own the more they can eventually understand these terms !

[@lucy219759]

I've often found if you have literally zero or every minimal knowledge of a language, you often cant pick apart the start and end of a word. It would be like trying to put spaces in a sentence not knowing the language i guess. Unless a word is repeated a bunch in a sentence and is decently long I cant recognise it...theres also the issue of because you have an inaccurate translation you wont pick up on nuances that a word may have. I know chinese, french and english, and mannn there are some words that you just cant translate accurately. It's like the word awkward in English, it's tough to find translations that captures the feeling of that word

[@juliettebraden3328]

I honestly think hyung Noona onnie and oppa need to be included in English subtitles, there is no proper English translation that works for these words and it's pretty easy to figure out what they mean/look it up

[@Caroline-rv8wy]

They do use Unnie and Noona in the English subtitles in season 2 and it makes sense.

[@jannatejahan9469]

I'm not a Korean speaker, but after watching a bunch of amazing dramas and films, now I can get what they're trying to mean in Korean slangs without even watching the subtitle. I think consistency plays a role to understand any language's intricacies.

[@kimmarsee1759]

Some times I forget not all people watch kdrama and don't know this stuff

[@daenerystargaryen1440]

This makes the Ali/Sangwoo scene just so much sadder 😭😭

[@bym5681-q3t]

that kind of fine details are so crucial to understand the emotional narrative and characters

[@sarahveeofficial4737]

Lately a lot of Korean shows/movies Netflix has been releasing on their website has this issue. It’s hard to enjoy it when I find myself constantly catching how wrong the translation is. Netflix needs a new translator ASAP 😬

[@Basey]

I wish I could find more videos like this explaining the differences in actual meaning and what we read in subtitles. I would like to rewatch every Korean movie I've seen and know the differences lol. I find it so interesting to know the actual meanings!

[@cuh_ren8325]

I think most asians can translate better because we do use honorifics a lot. As a southeast asian I can name honorifics that are used by other asian countries that have an equivalent term in my native language that I can’t translate well if I have to make an english translation. For example the lady mentioned “oppa” in my native language it is kuya and it can also be used romantically when that girl is younger than her lover and it even has a popular flirtatious pronounciation used in popular culture. In thailand “oppa” is “phi” which basically applies to both men and women who are older than the user of the term. It can be used in a romantic tone too. But in english you don’t call your big brother or a big brother figure as “big bro” because it does not sound natural in english.Instead, you call him by his first name.

[@weirdofromhalo]

You can say "bro" and "sis" and "big/little bro/sis" but it's not something you say repeatedly like in most East Asian languages. It's something you just say once in a sentence haha.

[@cuh_ren8325]

@@weirdofromhalo right? Or when people ask what your relationship is which is why Sang Woo should not have asked for Ali’s age but rather his name. Like the lady said in the video, in the US first name basis means you are close.

[@lemonclover2197]

When you are not korean speaker but have watch tons of korean drama all your life, you understand fully what they want to conveyed

[@anonyguru]

This happens to non-English speakers with songs and movies in English all the time.

[@stainedglassskies]

A few years ago, some subtitles (on Netflix specifically) didn't translate honorifics and just italicized them. I wish we could go back to that, because it's Netflix! You can pause and look up honorifics. I didn't lose out on anything when I pressed pause and opened another tab to see what "sunbae" meant and got a whole quick rundown of tons of Korean honorifics

[@aniota_god]

Why do we have to bother to look it up? We're not watching the show to learn Korean!

[@KimJongUnnie]

@@aniota_godignorant

[@lalaulaulau]

I wish they made English subtitles localised to specific English-speaking countries. Everything being America-centric leads to a few issues. Like I think the steralisation of the swearing would have been a non-issue in the UK or Australia. Also it’s very bizarre to watch a programme that’s Korean but it ‘sounds’ so American.

[@BMW_329]

It's just Netflix, they even get English film subtitles wrong.

[@prk3397]

im not learning korean but i do know how to read and i do know a lot of words, so i also noticed some of these things. all i can say is several parts of the show are more meaningful when you actually understand it even without subtitles (which i kind of relate to)

[@LunaCidnie]

I was really fun watching with my friend who knew some Korean. She was able to tell me some of these subtle differences in the translation. Also I actually think Babe was a decent translation. Considering it gets across the fact that she’s viewing him in a romantic context. But yeah the comment on her age was def lost in translation for sure.

[@bunnyofdoom4501]

There's a process called localization that changes word when its necessary to make it more relatable to the audience in a different country. All translations are difficult to localize.

[@Arcaninex7e]

이런 문맥에 담긴 의미를 알기 매우 어려운데도, 외국인들이 열광한게 참 대단함. 교수님 설명 진짜 잘하시네.

[@nathalykim1263]

it's really cool to see these non English huge Netflix hits, such as squid game, dark, money heist, lupin props to Netflix for branching out more than the traditional companies ever did, and hopefully ppl will stop being so afraid of subtitles

[@DodderingOldMan]

Thing is, this show has genuinely one of the best casts in any TV show ever. The actors are so, so good, even if the translation is lacking, you get everything you need through their expressions and voices.

[@spring7643]

Agreed, also the translations are quite good in my opinion.

[@nightfury7473]

everyone: arguing about the wrong translation of subtitles me who is a non korean speaker but has k drama background knowledge: HAHA yes I know that the meaning of oppa is not babe

[@abul9052]

Lol

[@susankingYT]

Yes, "babe" is a proper English substitute to call a husband or boyfriend. So, to Deok-su, that's okay. But to other guys, it should have been "sugar", which is super friendly, flirtatious and offensive at the same time. Minyeo was in adult entertainment business.

[@redbloodedbutterfly]

It'd be cool if Korean and Japanese shows/movies had something at the beginning/end to fully explain what certain words mean. After all, I can't know what to look up if I don't know I missed something significant.