Anti Submarine Warfare! || Cold Waters Surface Combat

[@Strelnikov403]

Drop down to 5-10kts when you detect incoming wake-homers, it substantially shortens your wake and reduces the chance of being picked up. Slam on the brakes and drop to 0kts if they acquire you, and pray they're far enough back that the wake has dissipated by the time they close in. Firing a MOSS is useless against them, their seekers won't detect it.

[@temerityxd8602]

The best way I found was to figure out where the enemy had launched from, point in the opposite direction to minimize the chance of a torp picking up your wake and then just go flank speed away so that even if it does pick you up it'll probably run out of fuel before it hits you.

[@CrownVicFanboy]

Also minimise the closing distance and hope they have passed you before being armed

[@baconx4]

I was a Sonar Tech on a Knox Class. We resigned ourselves to the fact we wouldn't last long if the big one kicked off.

[@BBCKT]

Long Live the Knox class!!! USS Brewton FF-1086.

[@Mariner311]

Was an AW on the Perry Class - same - we resigned ourselves to the fact we were missile/torpedo sponges for the HVTs. Though with LAMPSIII, we were more likely to take a few with us. Sadly, I watched the end of serious ASW training with the end of the Soviet Union - but now the Navy is dragging a lot of us back to conduct training for the "kids" today.

[@tbg3889]

@@Mariner311 That IS really cool to know, actually. Thanks for sharing!

[@mikebunch3189]

uss ouellet ff-10777

[@davidschlienz9395]

I was also an STG on the USS Truett (FF-1095) from 84-87.

[@FarmHend]

Take a look at 8:00. Every torpedo's turn is almost 45°. That means that tangential (and co-linear with your course) speed of torpedo is in around √2 less than it's nominal speed. Next one observation: 9:04. Notice how torpedo's course changes becomes more and more precise and tangential with your wake, because you are performing hard turn. So, here's hypothesis of anti-wake-homing warfare. 1. Speed is essential. You can't fool WHT with false targets, so the only thing that will work is to be faster than the torpedo. It's speed is divided by √2 (for at least the first coupl of turns), so you have some more time 2. Distance is essential. The more distance between you and WHT - the more time you have to run from it like frag. The idea is to force the torpedo reach it's distance limit. 3. Hard turns = DEATH. WHT relies on course corrections. Every your hard turn will help it to be more "tangential" with your wake. Also, this is the waste of time and "escape enegry". In two words: 1. RUN FAST 2. RUN FAR 3. RUN STRAIGHT

[@FarmHend]

Also, probably some "wiggling" will do. Not some course changes, but literally the WWII-style anti-torpedo maneuring.

[@theamazingmystico1243]

I served on a Knox class frigate in engineering. It had only one engineering plant (two boilers) and one main propulsion plant (single screw). If you lost the engineering plant (e.g., high water in the boiler) you were dead in the water.

[@davidcavell9805]

The best against a wake would be doing "knuckle" maneuvers that sharply "end" the wake. The torpedo follows the pressure difference in the water by the wake and upon leaving the knuckle they have to reacquire the wake. This is not full proof, but making multiple course changes on opposing sides (port and starboard) with large changes in bearing can create a few knuckles. These maneuvers, at longer intervals between coarse changes are used when in a ASW environment to reduce submarine targeting for firing solutions (debatable on effectiveness, I'm sure submariners will so they're not really, but surface guys need hope). The only other thing to do with a wake homers besides knuckles is to run them out and pray. As others have said, modern torpedoes are smart-ish so if you did cut or go slow and it happened to go under it would most likely detonate. Good ASW video overall, though you should have been defensively maneuvering if you were not actively planning to attack.

[@droid4369]

That torp that hit you had earlier reverted to a zig zag search pattern -- which you turned into, while dropping a noisemaker, which also drew its attention straight to you.

[@SmackcrackIV]

That’s not how a wake homer works. That thing was tracking him the entire time. Noisemakers are useless to this torpedo, it won’t look for them. And the navy guys all say the same thing. If one of these catches your wake, you have only one option: flank speed straight ahead and hope you outrun its fuel. If it catches your wake at a close distance, you’re basically screwed

[@toastmeister6806]

Crazy to compare this to the gameplay and tactics from that upcoming WW2 destroyer gameplay. Even crazier to realize the time difference between ww2 and the cold waters setting is about the same difference as cold waters era to today! Great video like always.

[@crimeon1782]

What’s the upcoming game called?

[@toastmeister6806]

@@crimeon1782 believe it’s Destroyer: The Uboat Hunter. Wolfpack has done a couple videos on it too.

[@thejohnbeck]

Damn , time flies. When I was a kid, the Korean war vets were about the age desert storm vets are now.

[@toastmeister6806]

@@thejohnbeck yup. Or how Vietnam vets are now how ww2 vets were in the 90s…

[@lancerevell5979]

Cool! I served on a Knox Class (USS Ainsworth FF1090) from Nov. '82 to Mar. '85. I was an Electronic Tech, comms. We never got to fire weapons in anger.

[@_R-R]

The ASW frigate is such an amazing asset for any Navy.

[@warmstrong5612]

Turning shortens the distance needed to catch you and slowing down to shorten wake is recommended.

[@viktormervia7563]

I find it funny that in the naval code flags of the ship it says "Fuck Yeah" lmao

[@Kenjis9965]

KZbin sent this to me. I'll have to send it to my dad as he served on one of these and will find it amusing I'm sure

[@keithgutshall9559]

All them speed changes keep the burnerman in the fire room busy with the burners . been there,done that on the 1072😊

[@mobeus5019]

Best strat to defeat wake homing is to gun it in a straight line. Because the torp has to zig zag, when you turn, it shortens the leg of the zag.

[@proudliberal605]

Honest to god Truth. I served on board the USS Lang as a sonar technician. Meaning my expertise was anti-submarine warfare.

[@waffles4322]

Id love to see more of these, especially a campaign!!

[@NuclearFalcon146]

"I wonder what doctrine is with the wake homing torpedoes and defending against them", none of our damn business is what it is! Super secret squirrel shit there!

[@michaelsoland3293]

Awesome to watch! Wish they had a Forrest Sherman in this mod.

[@dylanwight5764]

aight, i clicked because I saw a Knox class frigate on the thumbnail. Video was good

[@th3lev1athan22]

I feel bad for the BMSN on his ships helm just bc how sketchy the situation would be.

[@cjs750]

There would be a Quartermaster on the helm during General Quarters

[@seraphina985]

One minor point the Moss does not qualify as an offensive weapon, decoys like that qualify as defensive ordinance. Sure it is an active device but the diving line there very much leans on the side of stuff that directly deals damage and everything else. Thus a counter-offensive device that has zero destructive payload on board does not qualify, which includes the moss, at best it can lure an offensive weapon into committing a suicidal self destruct by using it's own destructive payload on itself (In order to deprive the enemy of the intel from reverse engineering a smart weapon that fails to find a target). It is basically a refined version of a chaff launcher on an aircraft, that by the way is literally a thing that launches shredded aluminium foil into the air nothing more, it is a radar decoy to trick radar only guided bombs, they are literally the definition of "Oh shiny" levels of distractibility.

[@c4wolf_]

Personally, what works best for me in those given situations... I drop down in speed... launch my mother in law over board as she screams ... disarms everything within 500 yards. Works every time @!!! This is top secret.. for ur eyes only. Peace n stay safe

[@markstott6689]

Carry on with these for as long as you fancy. I'll be watching.

[@Glimmie]

Nice that the signal flags spell FUCK YEAH.

[@aaronkratzmann9703]

This was definitely cool.

[@Trusteft]

Ha! I served aboard a Knox frigate, probably the best part of my life.

[@nickthx1138]

Liking the surface combat as always, thanks for the asw vid.

[@rikwilliams6352]

Nail biting stuff, very cool.

[@tims2501]

I served as an engineering divo on a Knox in the 90s and can tell you if the targets were close enough to shoot ASROC then that was the last act of a dying ship. ASROC has a range of less than a mile. If sub is that close they already have a firing solution on you. Standard operating technique was to use the SH-2 to prosecute a submarine. The video has the Knox making way too much smoke. The automatic combustion control system was so efficient you would not see smoke from the mack. All that black smoke indicates not enough air and too much fuel. She is making so much smoke she looks like a WWI BB. Modern torpedoes are not like WWII torpedoes that hit the side of the ship. They go underneath the keel and detonate. The hydrostatic pressure breaks the keel and the ship is broken in half. Also a Knox is single screw with no APU. So a wake homer would leave a Knox dead in the water split into two halves. The wake homer was designed to sink carriers so a hit would sink a Knox.

[@egoalter1276]

Importing visual assets into the game is a pain, so the black smoke is probably a concession made by the mod. As for the range, by default, the mod starts surface vessels 45-30 kyards away from contact.

[@jeffburnham6611]

I've been thinking of a way to decoy those pesky Soviet torpedoes. Since they home in on the ships wake, why couldn't you launch a couple of torpedoes set to run on the surface towards the incoming threat? Your torpedoes would certainly create a wake. Something to try out, not sure if the game mod would recognize the wake of a torpedo for what it is; a high speed wake.

[@Agent-ok4fc]

I wish killer fish games would make more games on mobile because a game like this would be pretty cool and of course it wouldn’t be able to run exactly like it, it would still be cool

[@mzal2326]

Nice video! definitely a good change of pace to see some ASW in CW :)

[@snigie1]

I had japanese destroyers in silent hunter kill their engines and just quietly sit on the surface waiting for me, that was terrifying popping up and seeing their engines spring to life because they'd been watching for my scope.

[@garyfoss4394]

Tokyo drift.

[@snigie1]

@@garyfoss4394 ohhhh! I see what you did there! Well done good sir!

[@mauritsbutterworth3120]

make another war on the sea video/series - i much enjoyed the last two!

[@Lornharding]

didn't we see this one yesterday? yes it was yesterday. i was surprised that your torps was also a rocket.

[@cdrocrossdiscovery]

I have Cold Waters, but I can't get this Mod. I love the work you're doing, and I've watched every vid. I guess I'll wait for "Sea Power". Keep up the good work! Any chance you could do a Perry class FFG?👏👍

[@teccefcorp]

Well, you're lucky if you get a court Marshall when you come back into port. lol turning off the engine should have been the right decision after the second noisemaker also there should be other anti-torpedo tactics available. Good video, keep at it.

[@craigwoodward7638]

Not much point in noise makers v a torpedo that doesn't home in on noise!

[@egoalter1276]

Yeah, but could you tell for sure?

[@Izavos]

Where can I download these mods for surface warfare? I like your work, you said you served in the Navy.

[@dougroberts3840]

Cool video, but where do you get the DOT mod, or whatever you called it ?

[@esbenk.d.jensen9345]

Intense

[@rapid13]

Anyone know if this mod works on a Mac? I really enjoy Cold Waters and this looks like a lot of fun!

[@Filthy_Morgan]

ayyyyy I love this!

[@uebse]

Generic coment for the algorithm

[@Wolfpack345]

Thanks!

[@fubardad8892]

I just purchased this game due to your videos. Should I get the "dot mod" during my first gameplay or play vanilla first?

[@zlatsg9449]

Can someone tell me where can I download this Mod? Really hope can play it

[@bajabret60]

Well, not familiar with this game, but did serve on a Knox class frigate. Just curious why not using the onboard helicopter to drop sonobuoys and use MAD?

[@thekillphase5589]

How did you get the music for this mod i want to get it for my own game ?

[@Wolfpack345]

I add the music in editing

[@NobleKorhedron]

WHY THE HELL doesn't he send up his ASW helicopter...?!

[@Focusonbehind]

CUT YOUR ENGINES. Oh wait I'm late. So...sooooo late. Probably didn't work.

[@mowsefmow8177]

you shouldn't be able to follow your torpedo visually and confirm a hit. that really takes a way a lot of tactical depth

[@BBeyer2K8]

I can not evade wake homing torpedos, no matter what I do…:/

[@billmuller6133]

Well the only ways to really doge them in cold waters is either just running await and hoping they run out of fuel before they hit you (they are only slightly faster because of the zig zag) so it will take them a while to catch up or you have to try to avoid the, by preventing them from crossing your wake (try to avoid running perpendicular to potential torps so the chances of them crossing your wake are smaller - if you are in a ship with the asw missiles wolf used this vid try to stay at max range (9-10 km) and stay slow until you need to evade so you can pick them up early and you have a lot of time to get out of the way and for your wake to disappear or to get a head start on them to make sure to outrun them.

[@enderdragon9307]

Detection on active - minus 20 Woflpack - yep, let's stay at active, perfectly good idea! Ugh... why?? Wolfpack please check your UI in this game, it hard to watch sometimes.

[@Lowkeh]

Mmm... wofls Welp, guess I'll be havin' breakfast at the local IHOP tomorrow.

[@deltasixgaming]

It my just be me but didn't you Just Stop when you found out they were all wake homing Torpedos if they don't have a Wake to home in on they can't home in

[@kimosabe6692]

Hunting submarines Tsk.Tsk. You should know better by now your Silent hunter 3 ancestors would be rolling in their grave.

[@nikkibaugher2427]

F

[@Robert53area]

You should do the krivak next, run into so many of them in the game, curious how capable they would be in a human hand

[@xXturbo86Xx]

Soviet ships have anormous firepower, but they kinda suck against subs. That's my experience with them so far. Nato ships are EASY MODE against submarines, but they kinda suck against other ships.

[@Strelnikov403]

@@xXturbo86Xx I've had the exact opposite experience, Soviet ships are amazing against subs provided you have standoff ASW (Silex, Starfish, or Stallion) to break wires. RBUs have no counter and there's absolutely nothing even the most powerful SSNs can do against them, the only hard part is closing to RBU range.

[@Strelnikov403]

The Krivak is fun. Capable ASW platform and RBUs are amazing at dealing with subs, but she gets minced by surface ships due to her poor self-defence missile fit and lack of CIWS.

[@diegohands9366]

They’re actually very effective against surface fleets and subs alike. So long as you make full use of your stand-off weaponry that is. Once submerged contacts start to get within snapshot range you will have a very hard time surviving or regaining control of the battle. At that point, they’ve been way too close to you for a long time. RBU’s are OP, as they never seem to miss, but that 6000 meter range means you have absolutely zero reaction time to evade any last ditch torpedo launches. Also very limited with a whopping 12 salvoes in total for the two RBUs

[@rear9259]

@@xXturbo86Xx RBU's even on the Koltin-class will clap most NATO subs. Only If you get close enough.

[@Gigi-ik3br]

"Ow.... Well that's one way of getting rid of a torpedo." Classic! Thanks for the great adventure. Always looking forward to the next one.

[@Wolfpack345]

Thank you! :)

[@cjfalcon648]

@@Wolfpack345 what is that bulge on the ship

[@nathanredder7325]

@@cjfalcon648 I believe it’s the sonar

[@CounterfeitDuck]

Jive Turkey (Sub brief) said that the best course of action against a wakehoming torpedo is to go full speed ahead straight and hope that the weapon runs out of juice before it reaches you. Maneuvering only gives it more parallel trajectory to yours helping it ot catch up faster.

[@DZ-1987]

Really? rather counter-intuitive considering that they home on wakes and going faster makes longer more defined wakes. Time to test it out, i suppose. Its the only way to know for certain.

[@CounterfeitDuck]

@@DZ-1987 Best is always to move out of way asap for any weapon, but if this sob is on your tail you should go flank ahead rudder a mid ships.

[@tommyq4654]

That's correct. Unfortunately if acquired within several miles, sunk within the torpedo's TTR is the most probable outcome.

[@dmikulec]

I was playing Fleet Command and had a wake homer lock on to a Kortenaer class frigate. I had the ship run at flank speed for 15 minutes. The ship's helo was able to kill the launching sub, but the wake homer eventually caught up with the frigate and split it in half. The good news was that it was my only loss. The Russians lost their subs to helicopters and an Aegis CG took out a lot of Russian air assets and most of the inbound vipers. Great fun, but stressful.

[@franktozier3184]

Nice seeing a Knox Class in action. I was in the Navy and my first ship was a Know Class.

[@holdup1964]

USS Knox FF-1052 was my first ship in the Navy. Served on her from 1983-1986 in Japan. This video brought back a lot of memories. Thank You

[@graustreifbrombeerkralle1078]

2:29 The way how the torpedo dropped into the water and immediately started running looks so amazing

[@jmackmcneill]

Maybe a 3-point turn would let you double back and cross the wake sooner than just turning? As to real-life doctrine, it depends if the game copies the real-life physics of the wake-homing sensors. I don't think stopping would thrown them off in RL.

[@DZ-1987]

Assuming it does, what's the doctrine?

[@DrydockDreamsGames]

Hum, I must have dreamed, I am sure I saw this one yesterday. Or perhaps you just enjoy being stalked by wake-homing torps ^^

[@Wolfpack345]

Yeah I messed up with the upload haha

[@MrFunkhauser]

i wonder if making circles ahead of time would help confuse it? they seem pretty hard to shake.

[@HunterTeddy010]

Right? The AI tries to do circles while being chased and it doesn't help then. Would slowing down to reduce wake between where the torp while find it and you work?

[@Raptor747]

They should add in the new LCS classes so that you can have tons of fun getting slaughtered by old Soviet submarines over and over again :P

[@TheMaritimeHorror]

Holy crap the instant change of pace compared to the submarine gameplay.

[@GutkowskiMarek]

As I understand; wake-homing torpedoes are very hard to fool. So hard in fact that UDAV-1 hard kill depth charge mortar was developed to destroy them. You cannot really fool a wake homing torp by doing a circle. The torp will home in on the newer wake. Cutting engines may work, but the torpedo still has a magnetic trigger. And your ship is in the area where the wake it homes used to be. Noisemakers should not work the torp doesn't detect noise, nor should decoys. A subsurface wake is not what the torpedo detection system is made to spot. Is that modeled in the game? Donno.

[@EkiToji]

There's also towed torpedo decoys like NIXIE. I'm not 100% sure how effective they'd be against wake homing torpedoes but should definitely provide a juicy sounding target that's within the wake of the ship. Those aren't modeled in the game though unfortunately. At least the game also gives a huge boon to surface vessels in that since it was never designed that way the enemy subs will still go active once you do and reveal themselves way too easily.

[@GutkowskiMarek]

@@EkiToji A towed decoy for a wake homing torpedo would have been even less effective than a self-propelled one. A NIXIE has no(negligible) wake. And like I said a wake homing torpedo doesn't work on sounds. It works on pressure changes

[@EkiToji]

@@GutkowskiMarek It still relies on other sensors to actually detect the ship once it's caught up. Given a NIXIE produces sounds to try sounding like the ship I would think it'd still work some of the time. Not sure how much of a magnetic field they produce though.

[@GutkowskiMarek]

@@EkiToji My point is that it does not have other sensors. The torpedo is deaf and it would still home on a towed barge. The only other sensors 53-65M had were the contact and magnetic fuses. A wake does not make a sound(technically it does, but the sound is outside the human hearing range so I don't call it that) it makes a pressure wave that propagates differently. IRL a wake homing torpedo zig-zags between the two sides of the wake. Similar to a ball dropping down a funnel. Until something triggers its fuse.

[@roryross3878]

@@GutkowskiMarek Thanks for the info! I had the same feeling when he kept dropping sound decoys.

[@johnknapp952]

If in a area with known threats, you would have had that SH-2F LAMPS helo up in the air laying a sonobuoy screen hopefully out of range of subs torps. And if in a Hot situation the helo would be carrying one mk46 itself. 4 of my cruises were on Knox class FF's with the LAMPS Detachment.

[@chiefbeef2957]

As a current surface sailor and torpedo technician, it's really cool to see our warfare areas represent in video games and mods like this. But just so you know torpedo evasion is really sharp zig zags. Basically just as hard as you can port and starboard.

[@vincentbaretti3114]

Thanks for the post. I enjoy all your videos no matter what type of warfare, but this was especially interesting. The second ship I served on in the navy was the U.S.S. Trippe, FF-1075, a Knox class fast frigate like the one featured in this video.

[@jwrockets]

I had a boss once who was on a Knox class during his stint. I think he was a MM. I know he stood forward aux watch underway. Last name was Cartmill. He told me one of the funniest sea stories I've heard.

[@dcrahn]

Cool Knox Class. I was a Boiler Tech and on the Commissioning crew for the USS Bowen DE1079. Interesting the earlier versions didn't have the Variable Depth Sonar opening in the transom. Shoot and run like hell.

[@birks7506]

Watching your videos has become a personal tradition. Whatever bullshit happens in life, I can always enjoy a cup of tea and your video like the world is perfect.

[@JoeC-bz2ep]

Was in m division on Knox class frigate ff1079. Good to see the Knox class in a simulation

[@dmikulec]

I think that Russian torpedo would have split the Knox in half.

[@robertmacfarlane8176]

Tru dat. A second shot would not be required.

[@LexieAssassin]

Even IRL, there's really nothing you can do if a wake homing torpedo locks on to you, unless it runs out of fuel and self-destructs. Unless the USN knows something that they're definitely not going to tell us.

[@planetsec9]

I refuse to believe that, surely the CIWS would work, the torpedo is very close to the surface

[@YankEnjoyer]

1:30 Any of you good people help me answer a question, what's the background theme played on this time stamp? When Sierra 4 launched a weapon, I tried looking it up in the internet but it seems I cannot find it.

[@Wolfpack345]

It is the soundtrack from a game called dangerous waters

[@YankEnjoyer]

@@Wolfpack345 I see, thank you very for answering.

[@cpt.rogers1396]

I really hope the modders add allied vessels in since literally any time you detect a sub it is always an enemy and you never have to worry about IFF, only with surface ships with a random trawler passing within 700 meters of a Soviet battlegroup do you have anything to be concerned about. (I'm pretty sure that's against maritime rules and also the Soviets would suspect it of being a spy vessel and either shoo it off, board it, or sink it.) I often felt as if the entire war was being fought by the player and everyone else was at home or in port sleeping. Cold Waters has the issue of feeling small in scale, hopefully the new Sea Power game fixes this issue while maintaining all of what made Cold Waters fun when it comes out. Overall, great mod though I'm beginning to wonder if it's going to out-perform the paid products at this rate.

[@Bingo551]

I wonder if depth Chargers or shooting the water with the deck gun.?

[@ryanfreebody6881]

I honestly can't wait for the game they are developing to drop. It is going to be next level. Surface ships, subs, aircraft, the lot! It's going to be one of the best cold war games available and potentially the best naval game to release. This mod shows a hint to what's to come, they have those who made these mods helping them with development and it looks so good.

[@billmuller6133]

Saw you also commented on that Sea Power WIP video. That game will be awesome. Good video as always btw👍

[@whysosyria1]

In real life that helo would've been deployed and gotten the kill(s)

[@mikeb.5039]

Sorry guys, you would have launched and prosecuted with the Helio before attacking with the ship. USS O'Bannon DD-987 1984-1990

[@daledykes9253]

Is it getting dicey for navies ? Submarines are increasingly vulnerable to surface ships. At the same time, surface ships are increasingly vulnerable to anti-ship missiles.

[@robertmacfarlane8176]

I am a former Sonarman on a Knox class frigate. I was surprised to see this video.

[@50Stone]

Can you launch the Helo? and intercept missiles instead of leaving it to CIWS and chaff in this game/mod?

[@Steve-dg3md]

If you cut engine and torp still is locked on you.... you won't get back up to speed b4 it his you.

[@annettaharris9269]

Subs using active sonar? Seems like a good way to give away your location.

[@jblaze0382nj]

I cant even change the camera angle on this game lol. I wish i knew how to play like this.

[@Not_Noodl]

Still miss epic mod. Had way more fun and Soviet campaigns

[@jameskongyaukin3012]

i tot knox carries helicopters, why didn't you use them?

[@c-130heracles8]

The only way to evade a wakehoming torpedo is not to create a wake

[@MichaelKantormusic]

How do you access this part on the dot mod ?

[@blondeblue32]

He must not be on realistic mode........

[@notfeedynotlazy]

You sinking a Whiskey seems... weird. "Stop hitting yourself!"

[@ditzy_neko3362]

That was very spicy

[@geoffreyrichardson8738]

Do the helos work?

[@tugboats79]

Wakehomer can be confused by moss... 😉

[@RemusKingOfRome]

Great video.

[@charlesburns8713]

whats the game