Wooden wind turbines. Are they really a sustainable alternative?

Wooden windmills are surely a relic from our pre industrial history aren't they? Well, that was certainly true until recently. Now though, a Swedish company has harnessed the inherent qualities of timber to produce a turbine tower that is not only lighter than its steel equivalent, but also stronger and more environmentally friendly too. Could this be the least likely technological revolution so far?
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Research links
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Now You Know, with Zac and Jesse
• Wooden Wind Turbines? ...
Vestas Investment
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Carbon sequestration in timber buildings
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Siemens Recyclable Blade
www.fastcompan...
Wind speed vs wind power
www.windynatio...
Vestas zero waste pledge
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Global Fibreglass Solutions
www.globalfibe...

[@gasdive]

It's almost like wood evolved to make tall thin towers.

[@senatorjosephmccarthy2720]

It is impossible anything popped itself into existence.

[@BloodSprite-tan]

I'm fairly certain trees grow tall because they were self conscious about how they were shorter than the tall wind mills.

[@gasdive]

@@BloodSprite-tan all the pieces fit!

[@citationsloth]

@@senatorjosephmccarthy2720 no I faver the magic sky daddy came and made trees in his image ......

[@luke_fabis]

@@mistaowickkuh6249 You just described roughly half of all pre-Christian creation myths.

[@JeffPalmer42]

So, instead of our typical trees that take many years to grow, could hemp or bamboo be fashioned into long lasting building materials?

[@kensmith5694]

Yes, they can. Bamboo is often used for structural purposes in areas where it grows. Hemp can be turned into a sort of fake wood that is quite tough.

[@HonoredMule]

I looked into growing bamboo for a small-scale construction/crafting operation (both because I like the aesthetics and properties of bamboo and because I could grow my own from scratch on a reasonable time scale) and it became readily apparent why we don't use it a lot more. The manufacturing process to turn bamboo from plant into usable raw material is manageable (albeit requiring more infrastructure and energy than typical wood milling and curing, even when drying wood with a kiln which can be traded for patience). And there are varieties of bamboo that grow well enough in environments that endure harsh winters. But any varieties that make suitable structural material will _only_ grow in tropical environments. Considering that, it becomes obvious why trees are the natural-fiber structural material of choice for any operation at globally-relevant scale. Taking 10 times longer to grow is a worthy tradeoff when you can grow and harvest 10,000 times as many trees, and do it virtually anywhere in the vicinity of human populations.

[@YourArmsGone]

As long as the wood is coming from sustainable sources this is a great idea. I'm a bit hesitant because I see first hand the effects of over logging and logging old growth forests everyday.

[@theoztreecrasher2647]

@The Southern Cross Yep. Use nuclear to heat desert sand into bricks for houses that glow in the dark! A Win-Win situation! :D

[@ColdWindPhoenix84]

My town is building a wind turbine farm right now, they are trucking the blades through town. It's pretty cool, and will finally make use of all the wind we get here on the Central Coast of California

[@piccalillipit9211]

they are WAY bigger than you think arent they?

[@acmefixer1]

@Anthony R Where is the wind farm being built?

[@alext8828]

Is that wind from the politicians?

[@ColdWindPhoenix84]

@@acmefixer1 it's being built on South Vandenberg Space Force Base.

[@ryanstucke7811]

Are you in Lompoc Strauss Wind Farm

[@mykobe981]

8:40 Of course we're good at lateral thinking. Everything we do goes sideways.

[@jeffcampbell1555]

Heeheeheehee

[@Jcewazhere]

Those turbine blades could make for great park/bus benches if cut right. Or roofing tiles. Or as a replacement for plastic siding. They're strong enough to stand up to huge amounts of wind and weather, they'd make for great outdoor stuff like that.

[@garethbaus5471]

I don't know how you could get the siding to reliably interlock in an easy to install way, but there definitely are plenty of uses if anyone bothered to repurpose them.

[@alilonghair7792]

I have seen a gazebo type structure roofed with GRP tiles cut from old Reliant Robin car bodies... It was very successful!

[@jeremycrisp4488]

I'd love to have some cut up and buried, forming a wall. But after seeing the bicycle shade, holy crap are they big.

[@mortenovergaard7397]

In Denmark they have actually recently been used to make bicycle shelters. But in truth they could be used for many other similar uses: Covered walkways, bus stop, children's playground etc.

[@bibliotek42]

And there I was thinking, "yes, but what about the blades?", and then you said "And if you're sitting there thinking, "But what about the blades", which was quite spooky! Can you exert some kind of mind control? Or are computer screens actually two way after all? Or perhaps it was just a fairly obvious thought. Thanks for another great video!

[@redrockcrf4663]

As my neighbour always says: Great minds think alike ........... OR Fools seldom differ !!

[@JustHaveaThink]

Just dumb luck on my part I'm afraid :-)

[@paulslevinsky580]

Just have a think about the MASSIVE energy-intensive, carbon-hemorrhaging concrete and rebar footing that is required by every wind turbine that is temporarily erected. They will outlast the short-lived turbines by thousands of years, becoming grave-markers for a civilization that destroyed itself thru crooked scams and backroom deals foisted as "settled science".

[@yodaiam1000]

@@paulslevinsky580 Its a lot less concrete than a dam, nuclear power station need. Even a coal or gas powered plant needs concrete. It is better but not perfect. You can also use micro-piles (dywidags) that minimize or eliminate the use of concrete in the towers. We are already seeing significant consequences from green house gases with 99% of climate change scientists agreeing with peer reviewed research. The other 1% are paid from the oil and gas industries to cast doubt. You can't embrace science where is benefits you and then reject it when it is inconvenient. Model after model and data backing up those models suggest it is pretty much settled.

[@paulslevinsky580]

I became a global warming heretic when the emails were released in Climate Gate. Everything since then has been a stinking pile of manure...manipulated data, erased cache's of information, wildly inaccurate predictions, absence wealth-transfer. It's all sleaze. Why do financially successful climate alarmists always buy beachfront properties? That should tell you something. The Pacific is facing eminent food-chain collapse because of toxic plastics and overfishing. Most of Earth's 8 billion inhabitants will be gravely affected by that event. Ignoring that threat and focusing on carbon commerce is pathological behavior.

[@clausbuhlsrensen602]

I have a Ms.c. in forestry and woodtechnology. Some 20+ years ago, I worked at the Danish Institute of Technology dept. of Wood. My main task was to develop a programe for teaching the danish furniture industry to exploite the environmentally aspects of their wood products, in their marketing. The very short version is, that when growing trees for one (!) cbm of solid wood products, you will need an increment of 4 cbm in the forest. 2 cbm will be felled as small trees (thinning), trees which can be used for particleboards, energy etc. These first 2 cbm are very important as they help to define the quality - and thereby the technical possibilities - for the last 2 cbm, that will be felled for delivering the only cbm of solid wood, you will find in the end product. From these biggest 2 cbm of logs, roughly 1 cbm will be chips and other byproducts, and only the last cbm will be found as solid wood in the end product. This last cbm - as far as it is used in a durable construction - buildings, towers for windturbines etc. it represents a carbon storage. (a rough measure is that one cbm of solid wood more or less equalizes 1 ton of CO2. The experience is, that the bark and sawdust alone from the one cbm that are sawn, represents more energy, than used in the sawmill. When only having 1 of 4 cbm in our primary product cbm in our primary product it could look like a lot of waste is produced. The remaining 3 cbm of wood is not waste. It can / will / should be used for a number of purposes - OSB-boards, energy just to name 2. Often these products will have shorter life spand compared to the main product. Never the less the still acts like carbon sinks, and provided the wood is used for substituting other materials, the benefits becomes huge.

[@bobyoung1698]

I've been following the growing use of wood/wood composites in architecture for some time on YT channels such as B1M. I'm glad to see that it might play a role in wind towers as well.

[@Vladek16]

funny to think that early windmills were made of wood and that we're going back to this material ^^

[@human_isomer]

6:00 that "extremely recyclable materials" is a claim that needs to be proven. Chemical treatment of the wood, and hard to separate polymer coating may pose a major issue.

[@TheEulerID]

Quite. I think it will end up chopped up and used in some sort of fibre board. In contrast, aluminium and steel are very easily separated and can be used to make brand new, pristine material with a fraction of the original energy input.

[@acmefixer1]

You're making a mountain out of a molehill. The towers are going to stay in service for 3 decades or more, most likely will have the turbines replaced with newer ones over their long lives. And they can be taken down, and a lengthening base section added to raise the turbine height. But a section of the wooden tower might be used for a dwelling or a silo. If they're in sections that are bolted together as shown in the diagrams, they can be broken down and moved easily to a new location for reuse.

[@realitypoet]

@@acmefixer1 Yeah, "reusable" or "repurposable" might be more accurate that "recyclable" for there - they can be used for some other structure, not turned into something completely different like paper products.

[@chippysteve4524]

Nothing a planer couldn't handle. There are many biodegradable glues on the market. Even after eventual decommisioning,the structure can be taken down and any rot would be localised due to the capilliary nature of the material. It is simplicity itself to cut up what is left and re-use it. It is even possible to repair such a structure. The biggest problem by a long long way is the total ignorance of the general public and the vast majority of engineers regarding timber and its properties. Hats off to the Scandinavians for not being sucked into modern western ignorance perpetuated by unscrupulous steel magnates and clueless officials.

[@kensmith5694]

Natural materials like linseed oil can be used.

[@Calligraphybooster]

I just HAD to react to one of the first images shown first. That man holding a 80 cm spirit level against a 120 meter conical tower to see if it stands correcly really made my day! Maybe we must see it as the equivalent of the iconic hex key of this ‘live your life identically’ firm?

[@bknesheim]

ref: 6:13 Laminated wood are very strong as stated in the video, but not easy to be recycled in an easy way. Thinking of laminated wood as wood is like thinking of asphalt as loose gravel. The clue is really the major part by weight and also a large part of volume. Basically the same problem as fiberglass and resin. In fact steel tower are a lot easier to recycle since scrap metal is an important part of making steel. I believe that the real value is that the material source do not need mining and are not a finite resource. The rest are just minor pluses.

[@thamesmud]

Looking at the thickness of the structure it could be ripped up into planks for use in construction, boatboulding and even furniture with the dust produced going into partcle board.

[@bknesheim]

@@thamesmud And that is a lot like what you can do with fiberglass construction like the blades. I am shore that you could use the materials for a lot of things, but not for boats and really not for furniture. strength of playwood it is also a weakness when cut. Then the material can break along a laminated sheet a lot easier then whole wood will do.

[@iaadsi]

I notice this sort of dishonesty often. New construction of "wooden" houses across Europe, touted as renewable and recyclable, when in fact the main structure is between 20 and 40 % epoxy resin, which is absolutely unrecyclable, and any wood particles trapped in it are as well.

[@robertcircleone]

Destructive distillation (pyrolysis) reduces wood to its elements, hydrogen, methane, methanol etc with around 50% of the carbon left as elemental carbon that is a good soil additive that improves many soils. Thus, hydrogen for the hydrogen economy and the other gases for power production and other uses to keep oil and other fossil fuels in the ground. Not sure about the binders.

[@incognitotorpedo42]

@@robertcircleone The binder is the problem. Pyrolysis is interesting but it creates a lot of nasty chemicals. Not really a clean process.

[@rogerkirby6586]

Very large structures that are not that heavy need transporting. Airships spring to mind.

[@Idlepit2]

Airships aren't viable though that's why we aren't already using them

[@chippysteve4524]

I love the image at 6:38 with the guy checking the tower for plumb with a 2' B@Q spirit level!

[@yodaiam1000]

Hemp looks like it would be a good substitute for glass fiber for the blades. It is a weed (plentiful), absorbs CO2, and is biodegradable. It is fairly strong and almost as stiff as glass fiber. In many cases the specific modulus (this is essentially a stiffness to weight ratio but hemp has a more variable value than glass) of hemp is typically higher than glass. The stiffness to weight ratio is important to avoid fluttering. Carbon fiber is stiffer and lighter but is mush more expensive. I am not certain if there are issues with carbon and lightening as well. I wonder why hemp is not used.

[@quadq6598]

Entirely down to the utterly absurd war on drugs nonsense like many other ills in our society, its the prohibition that is causing the problem not the drugs

[@luke_fabis]

Hemp fiber composites are being actively researched and show a lot of promise, but wind turbine blades have some ridiculous weight and strength requirements. It’s highly unlikely that they can be made mainly from hemp. Maybe some of the components could benefit, but I doubt we’ll ever see a whole blade made of hemp fiber.

[@yodaiam1000]

@@luke_fabis In theory based on the specific stiffness, hemp and glass should have similar flutter performances (vibration due to vortex shedding) for the blades. The tensile strength is close to 690MPa which is substantially higher than most mild steels. It is weaker than glass (especially E-glass) but I don't think the strength is the major issue. It is more related to the stiffness and mass. Any added strength is at the base of the blade which contributes much less to the moment of inertia for the rotation of the blades and the aerodynamic performance. I would really like to see a study on this. My gut tells me it is promising but you don't know until you dive into the design.

[@yodaiam1000]

@@quadq6598 you are probably right. It is incredible such a versatile and sustainable material is sacrificed for political reasons.

[@luke_fabis]

@@yodaiam1000 That’s the thing, though. The bulk of these blades are carbon fiber composite, not fiberglass.

[@paulbrouyere1735]

What a joy it was to have a tutor who became later COO of Vestas Denmark, rotor and hub.

[@JustHaveaThink]

Lucky you :-)

[@nathanlewis42]

Why not bamboo? It grows much faster than trees and is very strong and lightweight and can be chemically treated just like wood can to prevent rot.

[@artboymoy]

You want to give China more power over the market? Kidding. :) It would be a great solution as well.

[@bakedbeings]

I havent seen this sort of sheet product produced from bamboo, is it a thing now? Good news if it is. I've only seed the thousands-of-narrow-slices-lamination in tables, chopping boards etc

[@artsnow8872]

@@artboymoy Other southeast Asian countries are sources of bamboo. So, China wouldn't have a monopoly.

[@janami-dharmam]

@@artsnow8872 Right; bamboos grow (some strains) 6" /day and can be very promising. If you can modify them genetically (it is a kind of grass like rice, wheat etc).

[@steve-o6413]

Definitely something to look into, I myself know little about it except that it is durable and is used in flooring...

[@emailcam]

Building with wood is a great way to capture carbon and it looks and feels warmer.

[@johnbee7729]

Wooden towers are an awesome concept. In Alberta Canada they had replaced some tall hydro towers (normally made from steel) with laminated timbers. They looked much better. Using wood can be a great idea, however there are nasty environment impacts of forestry that are beyond CO2. Habitat destruction and degradation of surface water quality need to be addressed to make wood a truly great alternative

[@derrickstableford8152]

In Calgary on the Sarcee Trail, there were some.

[@johnbee7729]

Those were the ones I thinking about - at the 17th Ave overpass if I recall.

[@goldwingerppg5953]

Shouldn’t IKEA do KZbin videos for assembling their products.

[@royharkins7066]

Brilliant idea 😊

[@skipperofschool8325]

@@royharkins7066 true especially since they can add ads and stuff

[@janami-dharmam]

Swedes are naturally mechanical minded; both boys and girls love to fiddle with everything!

[@WeatherManToBe]

They probably do, but it's still more important to have them be buildable with no knowledge/access to internet

[@BloodSprite-tan]

i don't really feel like that's a big deal. if you have access to an ikea you should likely be able to find a library or other place which provides internet. or at the very least a mobile phone that can connect to celluar, they could have qr codes on the furniture boxes which link to videos for assembly. or at least detailed instructions regardless of how well the instruct pictures are if you aren't familiar with ikea furniture it's tricky to assemble.

[@danburnes722]

Interesting as always Dave. As your past programs have shown, the total life cycle assessment should be the focus striving the best way to achieve our 2050 net zero goals.

[@NetZeroTech]

Interesting. There are onsite welded wind turbine towers. That’s useful for remote locations. Very helpful for transportation.

[@acmefixer1]

@Jorn Paul Winkler Generally, timber is too valuable to cut down and burn -- it is used for lumber. If the forest that has been logged has stumps and other debris then it makes sense to chip the remaining wood and use it rather than have it burned when lightning strikes.

[@thamesmud]

Wood Composit worked well for the DH Mosquito . Perhaps the blades could be timber too, wood is still used in small aircraft propellers.

[@tcroft2165]

Well they did up to a point. They had issues when they went to the far east with delamination until they understood the bonding in high humidity environments. But to be fair these WTs have better protection from the environment than aircraft do!

[@thamesmud]

@@tcroft2165 yes they were buil with cascamite which is not waterproof. Resorcinol came into use later and has proved very durable in boatboulding. Epoxy is the best but not very green.

[@trikepilot101]

I love that bike shelter! Also, I wonder if a combination of bamboo and hemp couldn't outperform spruce in the sequestration/performance race.

[@lodgecav490]

No mention of the serious quantity of resins/glues required to build one of these from wood. Epoxy and Polyester based glues are not exactly kind to the environment, I wonder what their co2 emissions add to the equation.

[@Ricky-nq7lu]

They could use hemp base products...

[@seasong7655]

Glue can be made from potatoes. So it's actually carbon negative

[@trevorrowell9451]

@@seasong7655 Potatoes carbon neutral? Not unless you source your seed potatoes ethically and grow them in your own permaculture garden. You should take a deeper look at the commercial potato industry. But I agree, it has the potential to be a better solution.

[@bakedbeings]

He provided the lifetime emissions for the tower, is there a valid reason to assume the figure was missing critical components of the wood lamination process?

[@lodgecav490]

@@bakedbeings If the quantity of resins and energy required was included in that statement, why not draw attention to it if it is somehow been offset in a positive way? Call me cynical but I have been around long enough to not overlook detail when it is missing. Sadly the desire get on a bandwagon more often than not overshadows reality. Just my opinion, I look forward to the component breakdown. 🙂

[@harrycostin]

Excellent analysis. Brief pauses as you move from topic to topic would be much welcome for assimilation of these great insights.

[@hugoboyce9648]

Great video! The bike shelter is super cool!

[@davidl.howser9707]

Thank You. Informative. The effort shown here Is much appreciated.

[@timmo971]

Blades may still be viable as stationary “sails” for freighter ships as a recycling idea. Just a thought.

[@garysmith3036]

What a fantastic post, brilliant

[@johndoyle4723]

Thanks, you got me thinking.

[@faridjafari6356]

Regarding your recent videos about solar energy I remember that when I was a child most of the emphasize on solar energy was about panels used to heat water with sunlight. Of course, since they were using direct sunlight their efficiency in warming water was higher than obtaining electric energy from sun and turning it into heat again. I was wondering that why don’t we use a combination of both solar panels which make electricity and solar panels which heat water on the home roof? The sunlight can primarily be used to make electricity and since only almost 20 percent of the sunlight energy is turned into electricity, the rest which turns into heat can be used to warm water which passes through tubes beneath the electric solar panels and is in direct touch with them to absorb the heat. By this way the temperature of the electric solar panels will also be reduced by the heat absorbing tubes filled with water and this will always keep the efficiency of the electric solar panels high.

[@kimwarburton8490]

i remmeber the same. i DO see both on roofs around here, but i guess it depends if the company educates n offers the customer the advantage of direct solar heated water

[@bimblinghill]

I work as a rooftop solar installer in the UK - I do both PV and thermal collectors. Your thinking is sound - especially the benefit to PV generation of cooling the panels, which a lot of people miss. There have been a number of hybrid PV+heat panel products developed, but as far as I'm aware, none have yet been commercially successful. Part of the issue is complexity, reliability and maintainability. Mixing water and electricity in a single unit can be done safely, but it brings requirements that add cost and weight. Installing a set of PV panels is pretty quick when you know how, but if they were any heavier it would be much more difficult. Most customers simply want some panels that can be fitted and forgotten for the next 25 years, and be assured of payback of the installation cost. We can confidently offer that for PV, but for hybrid panels, which would be more difficult to fit and might require maintenance, I don't think we could be so sure (yet). Solar thermal is less popular here and in our climate you need the more expensive evacuated tube type collectors for an really effective installation, but where we do them, they are often on a more accessible piece of roof for ease of install and maintenance. They go well on an A-frame on a bit of flat roof - the wind blows between the tubes so they are quite stable, while a PV panel would act like a sail - therefore we can utilise roof space that can't be used otherwise. Customers that want both types are generally quite wealthy and have large roofs, so we simply fit as many panels as their grid collection allows, and then we fit the thermal collector somewhere else - we don't run out of roof space - so the benefit of combining the types of collector, or of seeking greater efficiency, isn't really there. So I think the answer is that there isn't really a strong demand for a hybrid panel because most of the market for solar is satisfied by the existing offerings. However, this might change if the market grows sufficiently that the fraction of customers that would benefit from hybrid panels becomes big enough that they can be profitably mass-produced.

[@faridjafari6356]

@@bimblinghill Thank you very very much for your excellent information!

[@antoniocirino8444]

They already exist this kind of Hybrid Solar PV-thermal module. But it´s not worth the investment. And the thermal efficiency is poor and the temperature is not very high like a standard solar panel.

[@MDP1702]

There already exist hybrid panels, it is just not really interesting due to reduced thermal efficiency, higher cost and lower flexibility (if you solar panel is damaged, you replace just that. If a hybrid panel is damaged, it is more expensive to replace and because it isn't easily disconnected, a lot more bothersome). And at this moment it is actually cheaper to get pv panels and heat your water with the electricity produced then using solar boiler panels. However solar boiler panels are more effective, you need possibly almost double the space with pv. So essentially if you don't have much roof space: use solar boilers. If you do have the roofspace, use PV since it is cheaper and more versatile.

[@DataJuggler]

Has anyone ever tried to build a wind funnel? I run through downtown Houston, and even on a not so windy day, the wind around tall buildings is much stronger. Big piles of dirt forcing the wind to go through hundreds of small turbines seems cheaper than building huge structures.

[@lawrencetaylor4101]

There are several companies that tried this. Sheerwind and Windrail are two examples. You're correct that this should be exploited, and smaller wind turbines could meet this especially if there is adequate storage.

[@DataJuggler]

@@lawrencetaylor4101 Thanks for the reply. Just being on the ground makes maintenance cheaper also.

[@Tas1962b]

@@lawrencetaylor4101 There are turbines being fitted to the poles of street lights to make use of wind from passing traffic.

[@kimwarburton8490]

iv also heard that the vertical wind turbines are gunna be used along motorways to make use of the wind that comes off the traffic

[@carlpodrecca5177]

@@kimwarburton8490 as seen here on just have a think!

[@PaRAtro0per]

This channel is a real beacon of hope. Always love it.

[@JustHaveaThink]

Thank you :-)

[@DavidPaulNewtonScott]

Laminated bamboo, laminated bamboo, laminated bamboo.

[@seamuscharles9028]

If they can manage to genetically change all our grains and fruits as they now do maybe they could grow giant bamboo

[@julianshepherd2038]

Doesn't grow well in Sweden

[@julianshepherd2038]

@@seamuscharles9028 giant bamboo grows in the tropics

[@seamuscharles9028]

@@julianshepherd2038 I was kinda thinking 100 + meters😁

[@terrystephens1102]

Thanks for another excellent presentation 😃👌👌👌👏👏👏❤️

[@rickrys2729]

Necessity is the mother of invention and Wood towers and recyclable blade certainly address real issues. Thanks for sharing this.

[@rogerbarton497]

Love the cycle shed.

[@erikrugzak1]

Great video! I was wondering if you could do a video on airborne wind energy. This also saves a lot on materials. One example is ampyx power. Startup.

[@WirelessGriff]

Another brilliant Video, thanks Dave!

[@rossnolan7283]

Without having done any calculations it would seem possible to make the blades out of wood also . Having flown and worked on wooden sailplanes over (too) many years which are the most sophisticated wooden structures to date and compare reasonably well in weight to fiberglass wings (the first commercial fibreglass sailplanes were made by Glasflugel who previously made blades for cooling towers and the same designer Ulrich Hutter also designed the single bladed wind turbine 'cyclops' that was erected near Stuttgart in the 70s . I also worked nearby building fiberglass gliders for Schempp Hirth in 1973 - the year of the Yom Kippur war and the Arab oil embargo which stimulated 'alternative' energy schemes . wood is poor in compression but 'improved wood' impregnated under pressure with phenolic resin fills the hollow wood cells and much increases this --used in several of the last generastion of wooden gliders (eg Vogt Lo 150) it would also seem that external bracing could relief some of the blade root bending --a spar extending out from the 'spinner' and a single wire to mid blade (as some early windmills did ) great channel.

[@champagne_tankie]

I see the "Timber Tower" in Hannover, the world's first wooden wind turbine, on my way to work every day. Going strong since 2012

[@kensmith5694]

Just a note and wood stuff: If you treat dry wood with raw linseed oil, it will last about a hundred years and it actually makes it stronger. The oil soaks in and after a few months turns into a material that is a lot like plastic. Water cant get past it.

[@nio_nl]

Your channel is one of the best ones I've found so far about climate change. Some channels focus on technological solutions but don't mention psychological, political or cultural obstacles, others focus on human obstacles but tend to have a negative or aggressive undertone. Combined with your other channel you focus on all topics yet always manage to give off a positive vibe. You keep it civilised while provoking thought and inspiring change. I'll probably support your Patreon next. Keep it up, you're doing great!

[@raulvillanueva7]

There was a prototype wooden tower that I would've expected to hear about in this video: The "Timber Tower" built in Hannover, Germany, back in 2012 was the first of its kind. It was a first attempt to answer the question "can we build wind turbines out of wood?". It stands there to this day, supplying the research facilities with electricity. Unfortunately, most of the media coverage to be found is in German, but there are surely some English-language publications about it.

[@Les_S537]

How many trees do you think it takes to make just one of these towers? This sounds like the dumbest idea ever. Wind power itself is dumb IMO. Can we make it work, sure, but at what cost? The world's energy requirements are set to triple in the next century as people stop buying gas cars and go EVs. If the people of the world wants to make us use solar and wind primarily, you're lookin' at having to build literally millions of these things... Tis a joke. Nuclear is hte only power source capable of supplanting fossil fuels.

[@danellerbe1521]

Another awesome video!

[@NathanSmithRenown0]

"Indeed I have not seen them roused like this for many an age. We Ents do not like being roused; and we never are roused unless it is clear to us that our trees and our lives are in great danger." -Treebeard, regarding wooden wind turbines, obviously He knows the Ents need to protect the planet!

[@MusikCassette]

3:53 I Think there is a mistake there. Wood is lighter per volume then steel, but steel is stronger per weight.

[@theotherandrew5540]

Nice one yet again!

[@jamestimmons6838]

Several businesses in our area have repurposed smaller turbine blades as signs for their businesses.

[@grindupBaker]

It's brilliant. I've purchased some larger used turbine blades to advertise myself on dating sites.

[@ub59]

This is serious innovation at work followed importantly by practical commercialization. More buildings are being made from mass timber too. There is a 23-storey student housing tower made of mass timber from sustainable local sources (cross-laminated slabs, glue-laminated columns) using steel pins and bolts at the joints at the University of British Columbia, designed by Vancouver architect Michael Green. Wooden high-rises ... who would have thought?

[@shawnr771]

Seeing that bicycle shelter. The blades could be used at parks for sun shelters. Two halves could fitted together and sealed at the top edge to make small barns or carports. By closing in the ends, possibly a small home.

[@MegaScienceguru]

I would use the fiberboard they can make from the old blades to be the structural backings of solar panels

[@bigbad253]

A little artful crafting could see those large turbine blades turned into housing.

[@kyletopfer7818]

5:06 Modvion says in their paper that their wooden towers have a 25-30 year design due to exceeding the lifetime of mechanical parts of the turbine. Wouldn't it make more sense on a bigger scale further down the track to be designing the tower for a 50-60 year operation so that you can just uninstall mechnical parts and reinstall new ones without having to touch the base and tower itself?

[@michaelking5809]

Thanks MK

[@wenkeadam362]

Thanks for sharing! Very interesting.

[@keepitreal2902]

Great video, thanks Dave

[@anders21karlsson]

Great video as always

[@lawrencetaylor4101]

Thnaks for this, I've seen research on this in the last couple of years. Another piece of the puzzle would be to build enough airships to use for transportation, installation and maintenance. They could even be solar powered to significantly diminish the impact on the environment as well as the carbon footprint. FYI fossil fuels are not recyclable. At all.

[@incognitotorpedo42]

Well, fossil fuels are not recyclable if you burn them, unless you capture the CO2 and make something out of it. That would be thermodynamically pointless, though, since you can make stuff directly out of hydrocarbons for a lot less money.

[@zachhodgson4113]

@@incognitotorpedo42 That's where I think the fossil fuel Industries going to try to say that they are environmentally friendly. By saying they are capture, when they are a producer. But it's a fear, so only something to watch for.

[@Kevin_Street]

I love the idea of airships, especially solar powered ones. The ideal might be to "fill" them with vacuum. That is: pump the air out of them instead of using a lifting gas. They'd need to be braced with extremely strong and lightweight material to withstand atmospheric pressure across a large area, but the problem of keeping air out of a large bag should be simpler than the one of trying to keep helium or hydrogen in.

[@crustyoldfart]

@@Kevin_Street I think most people [ myself included ] love airships, so every few decades or so there seems to be a resurgence of interest in their revival. Unfortunately they have some disadvantages which are next to impossible to overcome. Basically there are two types - rigid structures and non-rigid [ also known as a blimp, which is basically a keel supported by a pressurized ballon ]. Both types suffer from leakage of the lifting gas. The near-insurmountable problem with rigids is that wind sheer when encountered can rip the structure apart. One thing that a lighter than air [ LTA ] body does NOT do well is act like a high lift helicopter because when the load is released there is a need to deal with the excess lift. Rather than vent most of the lifting gas, the classic way this is dealt with is to take on ballast [ typically water ] as the load is released, which introduces another set of problem in practical terms. Finally I think I'm on safe ground when I say that a ' solar powered ' LTA will never be successful. But that is another story !

[@Kevin_Street]

@@crustyoldfart Thanks for the reply! There are certainly a lot of interesting problems that need to be overcome in regard to airships.

[@wasserdrucker6227]

There is windturbine at Hannover, Germany that has a wood tower. It was made by the company Timbertower GmbH in 2012. These times they where advertising on every wind energy fair. But i thnk it was the only demonstration project, now the company does not exist any more. The tower is 100m tall, on top there is a Vensys 77 1,5MW direct drive turbine. de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windkraftanlage_Hannover-Marienwerder

[@DiHandley]

Seems like a win at all levels. Regarding fire resistance. Wind turbines are also unlikely to be installed with forests up close. A grass fire does not generate the sustained heat that would be required to threaten the integrity of the tower.

[@samarchist74]

Repurposed ideas: sections of blades could be connected together to make sub-surface drains or utility tunnels. The wider thicker sections could be sliced into 3m sections and made into aerodynamic trailers. Cut horizontal they could form tanks og even small boats.

[@aeolus1982]

I personally love wood as a construction material, but someone has to prove me the carbon advantage of wood over steel. Once the tree is chopped, it wont suck any carbon from the air which is a massive aspect.

[@HankusSpankus]

What happened to airborne turbines , with massless batteries around the corner and solar panels that convert moisture in the air into hydrogen , these could exploit the higher winds at altitudes and areas that land based turbines can not use .

[@leemason4024]

Sounds promising

[@dfhepner]

Another use for decommissioned wind turbine blades is to use them for snow fencing in places like Wyoming.

[@Ikbeneengeit]

Great video thank you

[@mpetersen6]

While conventional wind turbines are more efficient than the Verical Axis machines at this time. By my understanding the vertical axis machines can be installed at a higher density. The bigger the conventional wind turbine the more land area the wind farm* takes up. Plus vertical axis machines would have major benefits from an engineering standpoint. 1) The generator set can be installed at ground or base level. This should reduce the structural requirements on the tower. 2) Elimination of the drive mechanism needed to point the turbine in the most efficient direction. 3) All of your major components are at ground level with the exception of the upper bearing assembly are at ground level easing any maintenance requirements. 4) If the tower is less massive this should reduce the materials required for the foundation. Just how many tons of concrete are required for the average wind turbines foundation? And how much CO2 is produced by that mass of concrete I'm surprised that we haven't seen more effort in pursuing this technology. Sometimes chasing the last bit of efficiency while delaying the introduction of something is a losing proposition IMO. *The best areas for wind farms in a lot of regions would be in agricultural areas. Aside from off shore locations.

[@-LightningRod-]

THESE need Hemp Fibre Technology VS 30 year old Tree Technology/

[@UKSimon4170]

Is this wooden construction intended for onshore turbines only? I'm thinking how resilient they will be to sea spray and how well they will cope with sea gales if used for offshore wind farms.

[@brucewilson77]

Just another hair-brained scheme from the wind power crowd.

[@AlRoderick]

Are you familiar with these things called sailing ships? They require maintenance but timber structures have been operating in marine environments for literal centuries.

[@artsnow8872]

@@brucewilson77 But, what is this hare-brained scheme works? Wouldn't that be great?!

[@UKSimon4170]

@@AlRoderick Sailing vessels are typically built from hard woods such as oak. These towers are built from Spruce which is a softwood. The open grain of softwoods makes them porous and prone to moisture absorption. That absorption makes it unsuitable for maritime usage.

[@janami-dharmam]

@@UKSimon4170 Balsa has been used for a sailing boat.

[@danielvivian3282]

Dave I like the lower carbon emissions that you mention about the wood verses steel during construction but I think the industry marketing guys have pulled the wool over your eyes about the carbon sequestration of wood towers. The carbon is not locked in, more or less indefinitely. Think it through, eventually the tower will have to be disposed and even if recycled, those products will be disposed...eventually. If that is to land fill, the wood in the land fill eventually rots. That rotting process releases the CO2 back into the atmosphere and there is basically no net sequestration. Wood is carbon neutral but the sequestration process of changing wood and plant fiber in the ground into stable locked in carbon (i.e. coal, oil or natural gas or carbonates) is so inefficient it is barely noticeable (ie. it takes millions of years to make fossil fuels or rock). That being said, I have read about burning the wood into biochar (charcoal), some of the heat released in that process is used for energy from waste (the waste is the wooden tower) and the resulting biochar (similar to coal) is then buried or used to improve land fertility. If that is the proposed process then perhaps we may get true sequestration. But of course no significant biochar facilities exist now and since they have to be made out of steel and concrete what is their net carbon benefit? Perhaps a future topic Dave?

[@grindupBaker]

Yes, wood for 3,000,000 big turbines is something but it's a piss in a swimming pool.

[@nottenvironmental6208]

Great show, good info easily explained. How about lap pools. How big are they?

[@rklauco]

As always, thanks for the great video!

[@JustHaveaThink]

Cheers Robert :-)

[@ajnasreddin]

What's the environmental impart of all that glue they're using to hold that wood together?

[@garethbaus5471]

Depends on the glue, if they use a water resistant PVA similar to titebond 3 it probably wouldn't be that significant.

[@janami-dharmam]

If the glue is used only for bonding flat surfaces (not filling voids) it may be less than 1% of the total mass. If it is used in the composite, then the proportion may be more. Overall, it depends.

[@johnhili8664]

How many tree we need to cut down to make one tower, remember it takes only minutes to cut a tree but it takes 50 years to grow back!!!!

[@garethbaus5471]

@@johnhili8664 for construction grade lumber like what would probably be used in these towereds it is actually closer to 40 years, and we have enough land to grow quite a bit of lumber, so long as the forrest's are managed and the trees are replanted we can supply all the lumber we need pretty much indefinitely. Rare slow growing hardwoods like lignum vitae are a completly different story but those are only needed for specialized uses like bearings in nuclear submarines.

[@johnhili8664]

@@garethbaus5471 Thanks for the information:-))

[@DougGrinbergs]

8:22 wind turbine blade repurposed into bicycle shelter

[@gronkotter]

The current problem with blade recycling is the lack of available material to recycle. Wind turbines produce hundreds of times less waste than coal power produces ash, particulates, and NOx (per MWh0.

[@pspicerwensley]

Turbine blades would be brilliant walking bridges.

[@monkeyfist.348]

Get your new Wyndkaptür at Ikea! Don't forget to have some wood pulp MeatballsTM while there.

[@NirvanaFan5000]

with so many new cool applications for lumber, we really need scientists to work on improving tree genetics - e.g. faster growth, stronger, etc.

[@davidbarry6900]

Trees have incredible complex genetics - many more chromosomes than humans, so this is not a trivial task. Also, from standard genetic selection tree improvement programs so far, there are always tradeoffs. You can select for trees that grow faster OR stronger, but not both (fast-growing wood does not have enough of the internal layers that give hardwoods their strength). It's also incredibly important to include genetic diversity in your tree improvement program (and if possible a mix of tree species in any plantation), as the long lifecycle of trees (compared to food crops) means that they are highly vulnerable to pest invasions (insects, fungi, etc.) if you try to grow cloned monocultures. Tldr; nice idea, but impractical at the moment.

[@kimwarburton8490]

@@davidbarry6900 what about bamboo? i know asian contries use it for scaffolding

[@davidbarry6900]

@@kimwarburton8490 Bamboo is amazing stuff, but not useful in the same ways as traditional soft and hardwoods - and is difficult to turn into laminated structural wood products like the wood turbine towers mentioned in the video above. Bamboo definitely has scope to be used in creative ways in the construction industry. It's not that easy to ship the raw bamboo around the world though, so it's better to find innovative ways to use bamboo in the regions where it actually grows well.

[@ristekostadinov2820]

I wonder how good will be if the blades are made out of thin wood, covered with fiberglass. I've seen one youtube channel comparing regular wooden plank with plank covered with 1 layer of fiberglass (he said that many small boats are made out of wood covered with fiberglass giving it stiffness and waterproof properties) and there was lot of difference in strength.

[@w0ttheh3ll]

The blades need to be lightweight and strong but also really, really stiff. Wood isn't good enough. They can barely get away with a fiberglass construction while making the blades over a hundred meters long. Carbon fiber would be way better mechanically but very expensive and has more CO2 emissions.

[@steve-o6413]

I don't see it replacing metal turbines only as alternative in a needed area if called for...

[@docwatson1134]

I expect blades will all be formed from synthetic resin, one that can be dissolved from old blades and reused in making new ones. For fiber content, graphene comes to mind, but hemp or other natural fibers may be strong enough, may use multiple types of fiber, research and test, repeat till it's perfect.

[@DanLocks]

@@w0ttheh3ll sandwich construction increases stiffness enormously while decreasing weight, at least for boat construction purposes. From the image of the repurposed blade, the grp is solid for blades. Perhaps the strength to weight calculation changes at these scales? Side note: in composite work, balsa wood is a relatively cost effective core material, but not the lightest or strongest.

[@yodaiam1000]

My understanding is that some blades are made from balsa wood with fiber glass finish. I also understand that the price of balsa has increased because of its use in wind turbines.

[@gyrateful]

If I could get an old turbine blade, I'd make an awesome pontoon boat.

[@warpmonkey]

A good way to reuse the blades is to cut them into 1 meter slices, and then use the rings of Fibreglass as the border for a raised garden bed. Would be funky shapes in the garden!

[@w0ttheh3ll]

Building a tower out of stackable modules is a great idea but it doesn't require plywood, it works with steel modules too. Which is good because unlike in Sweden there's not nearly enough sustainable wood supply in most places around the globe to built tens of thousands of wind turbine towers.

[@danyoutube7491]

I was thinking that too. Still, the massive weight and CO2 savings are important factors of the wood construction which steel cannot achieve.

[@roscothefirst4712]

Wood is amazingly durable as it is a type of composite material. Old fibreglass turbine blades could be very useful for flood control.

[@eco-techandtravel5258]

World have many types of wind turbine like kite wind turbine, funnel wind turbine etc we want check every ideas sustainability and affordability.

[@rethinkscience8454]

Great idea

[@kerrymartyn2253]

Multi million dollar wind turbine and to make sure it's square they use a builders level you buy for $50. Classic!

[@relentlessmadman]

wood is great as long as demand doesn't reduce forrest faster than they grow!

[@boomshotta]

bigups Adebayo!

[@julianshepherd2038]

You can build as big as you like on the Cromarty Firth, then tow them out to sea. No road required...

[@eskanderx1027]

Great stuff!

[@jantschierschky3461]

I believe those blades could be used in structural construction if transportation is viable. I seen a pedestrian bridge made of those.

[@rickhobson3211]

I am wondering what the hundreds of thousands of acres of tree farms needed to sustain a building industry means for biodiversity.

[@spanke2999]

depends... if you use mono culture, it's highly risky. if you do it correct, you can have a sustainable situation and reduce the impact. if you would reduce the habit of eating meat. you could reduce the current area under cultivation by almost 50% and use the land for these kind of farms... but these are a lot of ifs... it's more likely we go on with the usual stuff and just die out!

[@lightdark00]

Cycle shelters would be so nice!

[@mikeferris8033]

As usual, brilliant!!!!

[@Tore_Lund]

composite wood likely also handle the bending forces on a tower better than steel. The top of a big turbine sways more than 5M in certain conditions.

[@joesmith6776]

Bladeless wind turbines have the advantage of zero impact on bird kills, easier maintenance, and more aesthetically appealing on the environment. With the disadvantage of somewhat less output than comparable blade wind turbines, which can be compensated by adding more bladeless turbines to the grid. I believe fifteen bladeless turbines will equal or surpass ten blade turbines, an acceptable trade for eco-friendly power generation. In addition: exponential advancements in technology engineering and design will make bladeless wind turbines the preferred choice for future wind power generators.

[@rogermckenzie2711]

Great to see the effort going into progressing the climate and waste challenges!