Software piano shootout - Pianoteq vs Native Instruments

[@wasanasaw]

5:34 Pianoteq Steinway D 7:00 Grandeur 8:25 Pianoteq Ant. Petrof 9:50 Alicia’s Keys

[@ArtofNewWorld]

the real mvp

[@FighterFred]

I've got all of these and play classical every day. No matter how I fiddle with the settings of the Pianoteq, it still sounds artifical. So when I want something natural, I tend to use the Grandeur.

[@fabioj.w.6185]

Removing reverbs penalize pianoteq because it's a fully modeled sound and so it has no natural reverb, while you can't really eliminate the natural reverb of the room used in recording the samples... And a sound with reverb has always more appeal than a sound without... Also one of the best sampled pianos is missing, it's ravenscroft 275

[@WoodyPianoShack]

glad you raised that, the reverb that I disabled on all plugins was the simulated room acoustics, did not remove any internal resonance effects of the piano strings or enclosure. but yes, it's unusual to hear pianos stripped of all reverb, but if you play it through loudspeakers then each piano will be treated to the reverb of your own room :)

[@boxwes]

I prefer The Grandeur and Pianoteq Steinway in that order. I feel like the Pianoteq did a better job with velocity than the NI sample libraries. I would be very interested to hear Keyscape vs. Pianoteq or even Ravenscroft. The NI stuff is a couple of generations behind them.

[@firesmoker]

my thoughts exactly =]

[@PianoScoreVids]

@@firesmoker I would appreciate if you could answer the question which library among keyscape, ravenscroft, garritan cfx has the best velocity impementation. It always blows my mind that apparently nobody cares about writing or judging this but it is literally as important as the sound. Some people actually want to play classical virtuoso music with these... it's kind of very important that the instruments are well behaved. PIanoteq is so much better than everything I have seen so far in this direction

[@grahamt33]

@@PianoScoreVids Yes Pianoteq can make use of the over 100 velocities per note that is Midi - samples only use 5 or 10 velocities

[@EzyoMusic]

I'll take Pianoteq because I like what they're doing. I like what you're doing too, btw! :)

[@alexf_uk]

Having listened to the high quality files from your website using Beyer Dynamic DT770 pro headphones... The Grandeur definitely comes out as the most natural, followed by the Pianoteqs. I can't quite make my mind up between the fuller sounding Steinway D or the slightly thinner but possibly clearer sounding Petrov. For me though Alicia's keys was way behind because certain notes seemed to exhibit some kind of distortion or aliasing. Whether or not it was my headphones I don't know but I don't think so as it would have occurred with the others. Definitely The Grandeur was the best though. Great channel by the way!

[@WoodyPianoShack]

thanks for you analysis Alex!

Pianoteq Steinway and Alicia’s keys for me. The great thing about these piano simulations is that we are at the point where the differences are so subtle that it0s more about what you feel while playing and your skills as a pianist what count. All the pianos sounded great to me. Regarding the Kronos you mentioned, I happen to have one, and can record the MIDI files with whatever built-in piano sound, just in case you want to toss Korg’s finest workstation -though admittedly long in the tooth- into the fight.

[@MusicOfDreamweaver]

I looked away during the playthrough to be as unbiased as possible and my favorites were: 1. The Grandeur 2. Alicias Keys You are correct in that the Grandeur is a Steinway D. It is modeled by Galaxy Instruments. On their page you find more info. The Grandeur is my personal goto VST for pianos. If you want to: i have east west goliath were they have included the Bösendorfer Imperial grand. If you give me your midi I can fix a file of the Bösendorfer for you.

[@agoushy74]

Hey woody, I’m back again!! I’m glad to announce that I have bought a Roland D50 from eBay. This D50 came with the original owners manuals, and the D50-00 memory card(factory presets)and the synth is in beautiful condition, all for just $300! I can now add this lovely D50 to the growing collection, all thanks to your inspiration, thanks so much!

[@WoodyPianoShack]

so glad to hear that, makes it all worthwhile, enjoy your amazing instrument!

[@LaughingBubba]

The pianotec model d was the stand out for me, I felt like I was in the same room. The rest were very good and so the nominal second was Alicias Keys.

[@DavidIzquierdoAzzouz]

All of them ate beautiful, I own all those and enjoy them differently depending on the day, the mood and the song, even the speakers, for example when I play Pianoteq through the internal speakers of my piano, it just sounds muddy, whereas NI sounds superb, but even muddy sound has got its charm and actually emulates pretty much the real thing as I've never played a grand that really sounds like in recordings when sitting in front of it, so it's a perception thing also..

[@renardetrois6901]

Thank you! I would like to hear jazz block chords. Block chords (chords played in a compact transposition) sound muddled with some plugins.

[@JohnFRodgers]

I like Pianoteq Steinway and Alicia's Keys. But I don't know if this is a fair comparison, with Pianoteq playing dry against recorded samples which contain more natural ambiance and space. I really liked the irregularity of Alicia's Keys (something you can do in Pianoteq) and how they overall had a little more bite, but still very smooth. I use Pianoteq, so I can say I prefer it to samples. I have EWQL Pianos collection and even that one falls short in some ways, with bad samples here or there in crucial places. If I have a complaint against Pianoteq, it's just that there is lacking some of the vivid richness and bite of a real piano, but they keep improving!

[@jbridguk]

I like the Grandeur and the Petrof in that order. They are all good though.

[@nicovanliempt1179]

The petrof and grandeur sounds perfect but the Alicia keys has my favorite after the grandeur

[@Rocksite1]

I'd have t listen to this several times or more to pick winners. The PT Steinway D could sound slightly harsh, but had RICH resonances in the lower mids. A touch of EQ and verb could make it shine. Grandeur sounded maybe slightly too smooth, but right for the right material. The Petrof sounded really well-balanced, but didn't have quite the richness of the Steinway on the right passages. Alecia's had some richness, but some smoothness. Not so much for, e.g. Billy Joel type material. Listening to the piece was like listening to Schroder play on Peanuts. WOW. Just, a lot better than it ought to be.

[@normanchipman9344]

Physically modelled wins out everytime. My votes are for Pianoteq Steinway and Petrof.

[@cristobalv]

yes! also Blüthner it is very nice.

[@normanchipman9344]

@@cristobalv I've only demoed that one. I own their Yamaha C5, and I love it. For recording with my band, I actually like their K2.

[@najinelson6742]

I don´t think so, maybe have a listen kzbin.info/www/bejne/oZfImoqnnrFjnJo

[@TamirOrkobysPiano]

Bullshit. The modelled piano just resemple to real piano sound. The sample one's are the piano itself. Its the deferance between the real thing and the fake thing. Even if your opinion the fakes sound better then the real piano. The real piano wins for me. Youl see. Youl change your mind. I had roland rd2000 (worse modled pianos) and Kawai mp7se (best sample pianos ever) and there is no compatison. The kawai is much better.

[@normanchipman9344]

@@TamirOrkobysPiano well if you compare the worst modeled with the best sample pianos, of course you'll get a skewed result. With that, both are a digital recreation of the real thing. It's how they go about the recreation that is up for debate. Samples aren't the real thing; they're digital recordings that use digital technology to reproduce the sound. Models use mathematical equasions to reproduce the sound. Therefore both are recreations. From here, we can either rely on our ears or an electronic device like an oscilloscope to judge which does a better job. My ears tell me it's the models. Since I don't have a scope nor a $100k Petrof on hand, that's the best I can do. If you're also using your ears, then you'll arrive at your own opinion and preference. If you're using something more sophisticated I'd be very intetested in your method.

[@michaelgamble296]

1. Pianoteq 6 Model 'D' Steinway . 2. Pianoteq 6 Ant. Petrof 275 without a doubt. Thanks for the options! and - Thanks for such an interesting concept as having a 'shoot-out' between Pianoteq and Native instruments.

[@channel_B5]

You don't fool me with all those deceptive captions! It's all the same piano!

[@rossminet]

You're right in the sense that it goes through the same channel (youtube). But I can hear how NI pianos sound thinner even in this poor channel. To my knowledge, I don't think there's a Grandeur demo available.

[@OctavianVesa]

Hi Woody and thanks for this amazing channel, I've spent countless hours here watching reviews and listening to this and that - you have a real gift!! For me, the sampled pianos sound more natural and a bit more real (the Grandeur first, Alicia's Keys second but not by much). The other two sound very good but almost too perfect :) Keep up the good work!

[@WoodyPianoShack]

pianoteq actually has a "condition" slider that you can adjust to make the piano more worn and out of tune! I kept it at default 100% for the test, but by knocking it down to 80% you get a bit more funk!

[@TheDrVoice]

Thank you for this Woody, for my ears I experienced more character from the Grandeur and Alicia Keys as they felt a little more sparkly in places. The pianoteq was very good, but didn't allow me to float into a feeling of experiencing different colours as the others did. Thank you again fort this.

[@nicotielkemeijer2798]

Pianoteq Steinway first, and the Grandeur second, the attack being a lttle too hard and bright. plus I love the low cpu usage of Pianoteq. Fine as a plugin therefore too.

[@rebeccaabraham8030]

I'm a rubbish musician - but I do play around with VST instruments (synthed and sampled) controlled off my old Yamaha PSR... and I think that the sampled instruments just have the edge - there's a slightly more 'alive' sound to them. The two modelled pianos are great... but when I want to relax, and yes - luxuriate - in a lovely piano sound, I'll usually start up a sampled Steinway!

[@cahenglish]

The Grandeur (quite lovely - yum) and the Petrof. (And the Steinway!) I'm a Pianoteq fan, I must admit. In addition to sounding great, the CPU saving with modeled instruments when layering with other instruments is a huge plus. Definitely looking forward to hearing the MODX comparison. Happy New Year, Woody!

[@korgmangeek]

Nice video. With this midi file I liked the Grandeur. Better stereo image*. In second hearing, I liked the pianoteq. Pop sound vs classical to my ears. But I prefer pianoteq, I like the harmonics (unnoticable in this example). To my knowledge this is only possible with pianoteq (Physical Modelling). It's a mistake to compare the *same* performance (midi file) to *different* intruments. I tried the same with various cheap sampled (ex. garageband on iOS) pianos vs pianoteq (pianoteq is the only top-of-top piano instrument I have) and I realised the same midi file was ridiculous when played on different instrument. *But* when I played live I adapted to the sound even for "bad" pianos. More importantly, I had different reactions when playing and hearing to different sound. I even played differently. So. Everything is good. No need to compare those gems. Use what you like, if you can, use it all! I even play with piano samples 32Khz (less than 1MiB, korg O3R from 1996) it sound's fine for rehearsal in my home when I am lazy to open the computer. * Oops, and another problem. Mic position on pianoteq! Apparently the stereo image is different because of the mic position.

[@DavidRichardsDC]

It is so interesting reading these comments. So many of you love the modelled Pianoteq. It makes me wonder if it comes down to how one listened to these. In my Beyerdynamic DT 770 Pro headphones Pianoteq sounds great-for-a-modelled-piano. But then suddenly sounds cheaper and thinner once compared to the Grandeur. So, I do wonder if those who love it are hearing it on speakers in a room that is adding a bit of room reverb or resonance that is not really in the recording. The differences are subtle and any of these pianos would shine under the hands of a talented player. I own a lot of pianos and created blind tests of them once for my son and myself. The result was the same for us both then too: Grandeur. Thanks for the video!

[@salvationsale]

Modeled instruments are lighter on computer vs sampled. If each of the group sounds good, I'll go with the physically modeled ones..

[@TimothyDorcas]

Pianoteq Steinway and Alicia’s Keys me thinks. Great series!

[@AdamsBrew78]

Pianoteq should be its own hardware synth at this point - the sound is top league, but even better, the vast array of customization options you have over the sound puts it in a league of its own.

[@softarno]

I also liked the Grandeur followed by Pianoteq Steinway.

[@photonspark]

Grandeur and Alicia's Keys. Although probably accurate, the sustain on the other two sounds too harsh to me, I prefer the smoother sustain of the Native Instr. They may suit this particular soft jazzy piece better while the Pianoteq ones my suit Beethoven"s 5th piano concerto better 😊

[@StephenOlner]

I liked the last two. The both seemed more dynamic and brighter

[@mutungao]

I like very much Pianoteq. Is the most pure sound of pianos. I think The Grandeur is second place!

[@Synequanon]

I myself am using Addictive Keys and find it very decent, but I must say that Grandeur is really getting it ! Very impressive !

[@MayolBlue]

The NI sample instruments by all means and maybe a slight advantage for the Grandeur. There is a slight roughness in the mids with the Pianoteq instruments and definitely less perception of the body of the piano. I was listening with my new, really top end, headphones and maybe in a lesser perfect listening environment the difference would be harder to tell.

[@kpunkt.klaviermusik]

Sadly, there are no deep base notes in this midfile. That would have been especially interesting.

[@najinelson6742]

I like Alicia more, but I hate the loading times of NI Kontakt, so I rarely use it. Pianoteq has a kind of living room sound.

[@ronnyb5890]

when i use a modelled piano,i use arturia's pianoV,the drawback of using modelled instruments is,that it is very taxing on your cpu because of the constant calculations on the otherhand,sampled instruments use a lot of memory,it's a choice you have to make

[@michaelkaercher]

I do not own the Pianoteq lib but those of the Grandeur and Alicias Keys. In general, in the beginning I prefered Alicias Keys over the Grandeur. But when you play with the parameters of the Grandeur you can easily achieve stunning results. I love it. These days I am mostly playing the Grandeur. In matter of the Pianoteq stuff, I dont know. Why should an emulation be able to differentiate between a Steinway from Hamburg and from New York? Technically, they are differntly made. The hammer is different. I was once in the Hamburg Factory and it was impressive to see them make some of the best instruments in the world. Great. The sound of pianoteq is not bad. But i prefer the Grandeur.

[@BlueJavaTN]

Difficult - but I preferred the Pianoteq Steinway D. As an owner of the MODX, I'm looking forward to the Yamaha comparison

[@JeffIrok]

It's a toss-up between two but since I get to pick two, I don't have to choose! The Grandeur and the Pianoteq Steinway D!

[@PhilW222]

Honestly I couldn’t choose between them. Coming from when electronic pianos generally sounded pretty awful, any of these I’d be happy to use. I like the Pianoteq approach though, as it provides more flexibility for less disk space.

[@JiggyWig]

What do you think of the Arturia Piano V? I liked it for a while, but recently I've drifted back to sampled pianos and the FP-90. Interested in trying the Pianoteq for myself.

[@jonvincentmusic]

I felt the original Piano V was underdeveloped. V2 is much better, but I still reckon Pianoteq has the edge.

[@zombieman81]

Arturia Piano V2 (current) has been my "go to" for a little while now, more because for the past few months until last few days I've had issues running the big sampled libraries, but it sounds pretty good to my ears, a pleasant surprise after not thinking too highly of their original Piano V. Now with a new system I can run all the NI stuff no problem but have still gone back to Arturia.

[@JiggyWig]

@@zombieman81 thanks, I just upgraded to V collection 6 a couple of weeks ago, I hadn't tried Piano V2 yet, didn't realise they's changed anything much from V1. I'll try it out...

[@normanchipman9344]

I love Arturia. I have 3 of their controllers and the full software suite. Their Piano V2 just doesn't play right for me, even on their 88 key weighted controller. I also get some cracks when playing full on rock stuff. I do love the variety of pianos, so hopefully Piano V3 (someday) wel fix these issues.

[@photonspark]

@@normanchipman9344 Hi, do you have the new Keylab MkII Controller 49 or 61 ? If so, what is your opinion of the keybed, more so for synth playing than piano playing. Thanks

[@JeffFalkeMusic]

Alicia’s Keys I’d is my absolute favorite (and I just purchased the MoDX8). In my opinion, every other sound I’ve heard/felt pale in comparison. This is why I clicked this video...I saw the AS plugin mentioned. If I have to pick a second I guess the Steinway D.

[@SpeedySPCFan]

Alicia's Keys and Steinway D are my favorites so far, they're both excellent!

[@philsipad]

I have NI New York Grand which is the predecessor to Grandeur, Alicia's Keys, Pianoteq 7.5, and Keyscape. Sound wise New York Grand wins hands down. Playability wise Pianoteq Steinway D NY is the most responsive and dynamic. Alicia's Keys and Keyscape sample the Yamaha which do not have the bright NY Steinway sound that I prefer. But between the two Alicia's Keys is the winner as Keyscape's sampling is too dark for my taste. Honorable mention goes to Pianoteq Bachstein which is a good alternative to the NY Steinway sound.

[@jacobsmith1877]

In this demo I prefer Alicia's Keys, but on my own computer I usually like Grandeur better. The Pianoteq models both sounded nasally to me with a weird, phasey sounding mid range. Both Grandeur and Alicia's Keys had better punch, with Grandeur having a thicker bottom end that I would probably EQ out of a mix to help it sit alongside a bass guitar.

[@bernardussamuel8445]

My favorite would be Pianoteq Steinway D and The Grandeur 😁😁

[@chri5hill]

All 4 have got their pros and cons but overall for me the grandeur was 1st followed by pianoteq Steinway

[@wilhemheider]

I think the Grandeur sounds Better... but, man, the size of pianoteq for his quality is amazing too...

[@IvarFritjofHansen]

Grandeur and Alicia k was in my years best they had expression warm tone.

[@James-cn9no]

The samples perhaps edge out the modeling to the listener in a direct AB comparison. Absent the comparison they both sound great. To the player, however, Pianoteq (IMO) edges out samples in its responsiveness to the players dynamics and color intentions during the performance. While the samples are very high quality in their timbre, the discerning player feels the notes are flatter in their sympathetic relationship to one another and the soundboard as in a real acoustic piano. Neither technology is perfect and both sound great! I own the Native Instruments pianos, Keyscape, and Pianoteq. Find inspiration in all of them.

[@josegoncalves394]

hello i prefer in order the model D in first and the alicia's key in second!

[@Barchiesmusic]

I used to own those, but when I got my hands on Keyscape from Spectrasonics, everything changed! :) and thanks for the great videos woody! Cheers from the Maldives!

[@davidpringuer]

I love and I am amazed by Pinaoteq but I feel that the low keys sound a bit "corky" for want of a better word. However, the compromises of Piantoteq are outweighed by the gains vs the "pressing switches to trigger samples" feel of sampled libraries. I have great belief that modelling will eventually be indistinguishable from reality.

[@nhoenderop]

💖 Happy new year Woody, all the best!

[@mr_floydst]

They all sound very good. The Pianoteq is quite a technical achievement, so for me, it wins, followed by Alicia's Keys.

[@yoni23able]

I play Pianoteq and have a high end Kawai with its samples. But I think you are asking the wrong question. What differentiates them is which feels better to play. Pianoteq feels like you are playing an instrument. Every time you play a note there is the feel of a real note generated by your fingers, because it is. Sampled pianos are recordings. They can sometimes sound better because they are a recording but it genuinely doesn’t feel as much like an instrument. You have to try yourself. Listening won’t show you the difference. It’s like asking someone to watch you riding a bicycle and asking which one we - the audience - prefer. (Kind of). You can ask the question but it doesn’t stop it being a bit pointless.

[@grahamt33]

Listening on crappy laptop speakers I cannot tell the difference but I CAN work out that the Pianotech route is LOADS cheaper as regards the computer You have to use no need for an i5 /i7 upgrade or even SSDs That makes Pianotech an unbeatable winner for me - their electric pianos are MOST convincing too

[@tamirorkoby]

Its (Pianoteq) much more pricier and still the real thing (Samples of real piano - NI) for me is better. and cheaper (you don't have to buy the paid version of Kontakt you can use the free Kontakt player)

[@davidjones6182]

Petrof by far then Alicia's Keys

[@CurvedVacuum]

The Grandeur wins for me, far more realisitic and warmer than the other three, especially on the physical keypress front (hardly noticeable on the modelled instruments). After that it was a close tie between the Petrof and Alicia's Keys which surprised me. The Pianoteq Steinway D felt quite artificial in comparison, but the tech is getting closer :)

[@mayowoyele]

Petrof is a preset from pianoteq too 😂😂😂

[@christophmuller-albrecht8462]

The Grandeur and the Petrof.

[@RoomAtTheTopStudio]

I'm biased. I've got the Native Instruments Komplete 11 so I would like it as it's my go to for real instrument sounds to use when it comes to productions. Other than that though I'm a hardware enthusiast so I usually make music with analogue synths a lot more nowadays than with samples but I have it for when it's needed.

[@blochtim]

If you listen to them one note at a time, the sampled pianos definitely sound more complex, but PLAYED like a piano, the Pianotec is hands-down better: it's not as "realistic" as the samples but has a more organic feel as it's played. Sampled pianos have an on/off aspect to them that, as one person mentioned, produces a rather Frankenstein-like sensibility, whereas the Pianotec has a more supple, rhythmic quality that ultimately sounds more musical. I believe that one reason for this is that, despite how far we have come in the modeling of virtual instruments, the core sound that we're hearing is DIGITAL, and current technology is incapable of mimicking physical sound accurately (and warmly) enough for an instrument as complex as the piano. The samples still have this edgy, brittle quality at the core that reveals their digital origins; Pianotec, in contrast, is only a bunch of waveforms but those waveforms perform more like real instruments.

[@thefreereed]

Yes and perhaps soundboards like those on the Kawai nv5 help to bridge this gap.

[@judytessa]

I love the aspect of the piano roll in your video. What DAW are you using?

[@WoodyPianoShack]

i use reaper mostly, the piano roll may have been synthesia!

[@likelupi]

how do you present the notes like this? scrolling down? and. the keys getting blue? :)

[@mouldypretzel]

If it's not too late, I'd cast my first vote for The Grandeur. It has a quality to it that made me fall in love with pianos in the first place and I will likely buy it as soon as I convince myself to spend more money than I should on things once again. My second vote is undoubtedly Alicia's Keys. I can understand why she would happlily endorse this product

[@WoodyPianoShack]

not at all too late, your vote counts!

[@dykodesigns]

Difficult to choose, they all sound pretty good and kind of similair to me. They all sound pretty high end to me, I can’t really pinpoint which I like better. I guess with samples, the nuances my be a bit influnced by the room condtions, the micing and the precision of the person playing each key whilst recording. It must be really difficult to get this as neutral as possible as the recording room’s aucustics influences the sound. I wonder how they do this because there are so many variables to take into account. Interresting that Steinway approved the Pianotec, they must have some way to measure the software model against a reference, real piano (which of course also needs to be calibrated in pitch I guess).

[@ErnestoAvilez92]

I agree with you on the fact that sampled pianos are influenced by the conditions of the room, but think about it like this. In real life wherever room the piano is in, it will sound different, but when recording for sample library, the people making the samples, will try to pick the best space that the piano sounds it very best in, and usually its in a studio hall, that has the best conditions and is well treated and that brings out the resonance in the piano and not capturing any weird reverb or other sounds in the room. And this is why i prefer the Grandeur since it has the best natural sound to me.

[@zombieman81]

I expected to prefer the Pianoteq Steinway more, but the Native Instruments Grandeur sounded "warmer". Maybe Pianoteq is more akin to a more modern brighter Steinway than the early 1900's which I believe NI recorded. Seems a very long time ago but on initial release of Alicia's Keys (before it was added to Komplete) I purchased it individually, installed it, and was blown away, the sound making my brain think my keyboard controller felt different... So my picks of these four are the two NI pianos... Sorry Pianoteq... I'm still considering investing in Pianoteq and at least one instrument pack. Did a trial recently and really liked the brightness and character of the Bechstein in the second of the historical instrument packs.

[@moriergael2023]

first for me is the pianoteq steinway the second one is Alicia

[@jeffreyd700]

The quality of Pianoteq couldn't be touched in this demo. Sounds like the real thing, I'd give Alicia Keys 2nd place.

[@mikeklassen6381]

The Pianotec Petrof and the Steinway D are superior, been around played, sold and tuned the acoustics for decades.The Frazoli and Hamburg Steinway would be hard to beat. The Boesendoerfer is a little dark but tonally incredible. I really don’t see the comparisons in the simulated samples, as they are good but fall short in the acoustic sample to simulated competition. I am happy having them in a category of their own.

[@okeribok]

To really appreciate the difference, one needs to play themselves. Then you can feel the near limitless velocity levels and responsiveness of VM.

[@rainy2063]

Pianoteq - the most famous piano. Cuz in one vst, you have every possible sound of piano that you can modding. The ability of modding natural sound in real time is a gold of Modartt

[@MrGorpm]

Alicia's Keys and Steinway D for me!

[@jespergummeson5606]

Thanks for a interesting video Woody! In my opinion both NI sounds better and more natural on it`s own like this. But nothing compares with my Kawai... 😎

[@synthplayer1563]

Very good idea. For me it's Pianoteq Steinway D and Native Instruments The Grandeur. But when I'm playing by myself I have almost ever the feeling that the modeled pianos react better to my playing. It's not a sound quality it's a playing quality. And that is not communicable by video.

[@WoodyPianoShack]

very good point, yes, the playability is hard to judge by watching somebody else's performance or listening to a rendered midi.

[@JiggyWig]

Tricky, really tricky, but I think I like the Grandeur and Pianoteq Steinway best.

[@andreblum]

grandeur and pianoteq steinway. (alicia's keys third, petrof last. I don't like how the entire set of strings vibrates like it is not dampened)

[@rossminet]

To me it's quite telling that you have chosen pianoteq's Steinway D and Petrov. With pianoteq stage, you have to choose two "instruments". They are my first pick. D is bright and spacey and Petrov darker and more intimate. Keith Jarrett played on a Petrov. I have the Grandeur (and Pianoteq demo). IMO Pianoteq is much better. Grandeur is thin.

[@dzmcm]

Well better late than never. I really appreciated this comparison. As glad as I am that pianoteq exists, I still find it lacking something. There's a bright detail to individual notes that is captured with the best sampled pianos. With pianoteq it's like the hammers are too soft or lacking tonal dynamics or something. It seem muffled somehow. Maybe without a room to reflect the higher frequencies it's at a disadvantage. That said the sympathetic resonance that modartt pulled of is untouchable. When big chords are played no amount of trickery brings a bunch of samples together like full physical modeling. And since this nuance is what pianos are all about I would always vote for pianoteq.

[@NotNoAndrew]

I liked the Grandeur and the Alicia's Keys. The Panoteq was nice as well. I am interested din the MIDI file you used. Is that a public domain MIDI file?

[@WoodyPianoShack]

it used to be downloadable on the purgatory creek digital piano shootout page, page is no longer available. contact them if you want it.

[@NotNoAndrew]

@@WoodyPianoShack I found it, I used th Wayback machine to go back to an archived version of the site. web.archive.org/web/20110423132558/www.purgatorycreek.com/

[@kris_lx]

I prefer both the sampled piano's, with The Grandeur as the winner. Pianoteq sounds too clean for my taste, especially in the lower half of the keyboard.

[@scoreandsound]

Embertone steinway D is cool sounding.

[@altrogeruvah]

I own Pianoteq 5 and really enjoy it but I gotta say, The Grandeur stole my heart. Also, I don't think the MIDI file exists on Purgatory Creek's website anymore, could you please upload it for us? Thank you for this shootout!

[@WoodyPianoShack]

I don't have permission to distribute their midi, perhaps best to shoot them an email! thanks for the vote!

[@altrogeruvah]

@@WoodyPianoShack I understand, thank you so much!

[@hjsworld3299]

1. Grandeur 2. Alicia --> the Pianoteq is impressive from a software point of view, but the sound is a bit "harsh", the sample versions were better to the ears.

[@LefGermenlis]

Really well made video, super informative but please check Keyscape. I think it's a game changer!!

[@WoodyPianoShack]

if only i had a license...

[@samsfurd]

I wonder a name of this song played each piano sample. I heared it but i cant remember where i had listen.

[@dariuszcieslar1811]

It’s a really hard choice, but The Grandeur wins for me. Pianoteq steinway model D is just behind.

[@yeahuri4724]

Pianoteq Steinway D and Pianoteq Petrof

[@SohaldSpike]

Love the Alicia´s keys.... soft & smooth

[@andrewprewett9069]

Thanks for the great channel. Great work. All 4 pianos are great sounds that are better than what I play with - an old EXR 5. I don't have great headphones, so my perception and comment is perhaps unfair. But I have to say the Alicia Keys 'sounded' the best to me - a blended and refined, softer sound - the least distracting sound that allowed me to hear the music. Then the Grandeur was next - more bright 'resonances' in it, but still a warm and harmonious sound. Then the 2 modeled sounds. As I say, if they were my piano sound then I would be quite happy with them compared to my current keyboard noises - but they sounded modeled and layered to me - a certain central tone in there that I didn't find all that pleasing, along with various 'extra' resonance noise. But then again, I may be a peasant that isn't all that wowed by the vibrance of a grand piano. :) Vote 1) Alicias keys 2) Grandeur.

[@alanmckean]

What piano roll software are you using? It seems that it would be useful in learning pieces from midi files. Also, I am considering a 49 key controller and it was very instructive to see how much of the demo was played within four octaves.

[@WoodyPianoShack]

this is synthesia, yes, it could be good for that, or just learn to read music, which I feel is an even better way to notate and learn pieces! :)

[@tamirorkoby]

I liked the sampled (NI) pianos more.

[@AreTysland]

I found it hard to actually hear much difference on KZbin, but with the MP3s I think I prefer Alicia’s Keys followed by The Grandeur. It may very well be an coloured opinion, but when comparing the different passages, I get a sense of the modelled pianos being slightly more “sterile”. Strictly personal I would like the modelled versions to sound better as that would indicate a maturity level of the technology, but so far I’ve yet to hear one that are completely convincing when compared to the real thing or even sampled versions. That said, I would probably not picked up on the modelled versions being modelled when presented with a finished piece of music where they were used.

[@drjazz7278]

But what about the Gentleman??..I think that one gives you soemthing else whereas the ones in the video are pretty lush and modern. Great vid as always

[@WoodyPianoShack]

i have that one and love it too, but didn't want too many pianos in one video, overload! i have uprights from NI, Pianoteq and Nord, maybe a topic for another video!

[@anshuljain8515]

Pianoteq Steinway and Grandeur

[@Harpiano]

I have all those four piano samples. I feel pianoteq steinway D is richer than grandure. Grandure has clean sound. So I think that Grandure is good for band or accompaning with other instruments. Alicia keys is warm and lovely. Steinway D is hard and brilliant.. I feel some power from the sound. Pianoteq Petrof has warm and bell like sound inside itself. Good piano sound depends on how well matching the tune. I usually play ballad, I prefer Alicia keys and Grandure. But Grandure is not rich and I feel it is compressed sound. Overall, I prefer Alicia Keys!

[@truthpopup]

Asking "what are your two favorite pianos" is not a statistically valid polling method, unless the person is asked to rank their two choices. Otherwise you are giving equal rank to the two choices in the case where the person prefers one over the other. A better method would be simply to ask "which is your favorite?" and from that poll, select the two highest ranking pianos for the runoff. I prefer the NI sampled pianos over the Pianoteq modeled pianos, and of the sampled pianos, I prefer the Grandeur, which seems to be a better recording than Alecia's Keys, and the piano seems to be in a better state of tune. One thing a sampled piano has to get absolutely correct is the tuning of the instrument, because there is little to nothing than can be done to correct mistuning, especially of unisons, after the recording is made. To me, the problem with Pianoteq is that in their avid pursuit of realism, they seem more successful in reproducing the negative aspects of piano sound than in reproducing the positive aspects. By negative aspects, I refer to inharmonicity of steel strings, thinness of sound in the lower register resulting from a weak fundamental and strong overtones, including inharmonic overtones, and phase cancellation resulting from microphone placement. I think Pianoteq could be a better instrument if it did not try to hide the fact that it is not a real piano and allowed itself to reduce the negative aspects of piano sound while accentuating the positive aspects. In a mathematical model, it is possible to do what is impossible in a real instrument, for example to limit string inharmonicity, controlling the quality and quantity of overtones for a better sound, and to model an ideal microphone that picks up all strings equally, without phase cancellation. In doing that, the instrument may sound less like a real piano while sounding better than a real piano. So rather than restricting itself to emulating real pianos as much as possible, Pianoteq could build a virtual piano that surpasses what is possible with wood, felt, and steel.

[@WoodyPianoShack]

some great points, thanks, agree, I would like to see imperfections modelled, as pianos I encounter are seldom 100%. regarding the voting, I found it incredibly hard to choose two and eliminate two, let alone rank them in order! hence the simplification, we'll still be able to determine the two most popular pianos.

[@jpdj2715]

Your videos are well made, Woody. All of these "pianos" have a good midrange - the double entendre being, both in tone and in volume. The lowest two octaves are hardly touched and if/when, barely hit. The same applies to the top two octaves. The Steinway D has my preference. As it was called flat by another commenter, I wonder if there were enough ff and fff chords to make it shine, or there was something in the EQ settings, or even the AD conversion followed by DA conversion into YT movie was less than optimal. Not sure. You informed that Alicia's Keys is a Yamaha and I guess you are totally right, but the other day, listening to another clip it sounded like a very good Steinway B in a studio with dampened walls to me (loved it) and then another clip used it and its top end sounded metal-dry to the point I hated it. Not sure what was going on there. Totally aware this video is 1.5 years ago now :)