Bishop Barron on Heroic Materialism

[@nousury]

"What's needed is a bold, confident, intelligent and compelling telling of the Christian story. The story that the Bible presents, of the Creator God, who made the world out of love and who sends the great rescue operation culminating in Jesus the Messiah, risen from the dead." That story is still of compelling spiritual power. But we have to summon again the imagination, the intelligence and the courage to present that story in a compelling way."

[@BishopBarron]

@CitizenSkeptic You're really good at sticks and stones, man! Not even the hint of a counter-argument in anything you've said. I win this round.

[@loydavida9669]

Oh My. This is so beautifully conveyed. Father Barron is a prophet of our time. This teaching also applies to the small materialism we cling into.

[@DavidGregTaylor]

Fr. Barron, thank you so much for this series. It IS a peer to Clark's Civilisation, and its insights into what is real is emblematic of why I am so grateful I converted to Catholicism 21 years ago.

[@gondolacrescent5]

The "commercial" at the end of the video was awe-inspiring; I'm not Catholic (not yet) but I believe I instinctively understand the motivation and energy that compelled the men who built the great European cathedrals 900 to 600 years ago.

[@G-Rockman]

to be honest i dont know if any of us can truly understand that. generations of people dedicating their full livelihoods to projects they would never see finished. genuinely awe-inspiring to think about.

[@joannelarcher6246]

I love your series. We have shown some for my daughter's First Communion classes.

[@Bailey4President]

Right? I've been watching that trailer over and over now for six months. I converted within the past year, and the Catholic Church is the best thing that has ever happened to me.

[@doctorjenny]

Kenneth Clark’s ‘Civilisation’ is amazingly relevant even today..and of course he himself converted to Catholicism. I think he would have appreciated your approach!

[@Rentaghost76]

Fr. Barron, it is so funny that you mention Sir Kenneth Clarke's wonderful "Civilisation" tv series and book, because for the last year I have been devouring those works gratefully and when I watched your "Catholicism" series I was struck by how it reminded me of Clarke's series. I love both works, and I see you are clearly a man of great taste and understanding, just as Sir Kenneth Clarke was!

[@stephenandersen4625]

I am a big fan of the Civilization series. Thank you for doing this.

[@thoughtadventure100]

I think he's trying to solve those problems as best he can. Many priests' training has emphasized deconstructing the faith to the detriment of a compelling vision. Fr. Barron is helping provide a compelling vision. Everyone can be a part of the solution, cooperating with those priests who do try, and putting for value on building a transformative Church rather than one built around sacraments of convenience.

[@BishopBarron]

@adstanra Oh give me a break! You really think there is more fine art flowing from New York today than from Renaissance Florence or Medieval Paris?!! And you think there are more good ideas popping up in 21st century Chicago than in classical Greece? There might indeed be greater quantity of art and philosophy today but hardly more quality.

[@patrickvernon4766]

I would easily argue there is more genuine art in north korea (or any socialist realism) than in any of the western art coming out of post modernism today. Im not a marxist, but where is this critique? Capitalism has created far more soulless, decadent, and degenerate culture

[@G-Rockman]

@@patrickvernon4766 to be fair, one could argue that the world of film (and animation) is producing the best visual art the world has ever seen. fine art in the past likely filled a similar role to what film does for us today: transportation.

[@BishopBarron]

@bayreuth79 I favor a streamlined version of the argument from contingency. Check out my other videos to see my defense of it.

[@ithaka9564]

I;ve battled with this observation especially in debating whether to stay in the city or return to my country farm.

[@BishopBarron]

@adstanra I know we've kind of exhausted this line of argument. But do you see that that which, in your own words, "inherently possesses the capacity to be" must be that whose very nature is to be? And this is precisely what we mean by "God," the one who said of himself "I am who I am." Anything that is marked by potentiality or ontological imperfection cannot be this reality.

[@bwoutchannel6356]

Use words, yes, and images, of course and even music and whatever else might give a glimpse of the truth of Catholicism but have all these reflect the reality of the lives that are living this faith in deed and actionable movement. A smile, an encouraging word, a helping hand and a gesture of good will. Then the holy Spirit comes to embrace those present and the same spirit will blow this truth to the far ends of the earth.

[@BishopBarron]

@adstanra No. You're mixing up categories. Everything you're talking about here has to do with causes within the nexus of conditioned things. Creation names the fact that radically contingent reality requires a non-contingent ground. As such, creation can't be measured or "seen." It can only be known through a metaphysical induction.

[@rae-michellel6878]

I am so grateful and blessed to be Catholic! ❤️🙏❤️

[@ecstaticallyeverafterwithc5904]

The Chosen is the perfect example of the revival of this story.

[@BishopBarron]

@adstanra Well first of all, "the universe," which is just the sum total of contingent things, is hardly that which exists through the power of its own essence. Second, even to speak of something as "perfectly evil" is incoherent since evil is a privation of the good. That which exists through the power of its own essence (God) is sheerly actual and hence perfectly good.

[@BishopBarron]

@adstanra That's like saying 10,000 X 0 is something other than zero. "The universe" is just the collectivity of contingent things. Appealing to the totality of unexplained things doesn't explain anything!

[@TeFloatingBrain]

I completly agree with you Fr. It is sad that today, the person who made the "Civilization" series would be mocked if he said what he did, we indoctrinate kids in school eoth ideas of passion and success and achivmenr and "doing whatever you want" as goals, in univerities too, like M.I.T and other large institutions with "passion culture" as of your passion is all that matters, this grievously dangerious, I think.

[@BishopBarron]

@torvasal1 Why in the world would you think that?

[@sebastianmelmoth685]

LOVE Kenneth Clark's Civilisation. Do you notice how the music (every note of it) was appropriate for each era (unlike modern documentaries who think compartmentally)

[@BishopBarron]

@equitemcroce Thanks for your question. For me, it would probably be Chartres Cathedral.

[@BishopBarron]

@CitizenSkeptic Well, sticks and stones... I mean, there isn't a coherent counter-argument in your statement; just an off-hand dismissal of two thousand years of philosophy!

[@BishopBarron]

@adstanra But absolutely nothing in the universe, including space and time themselves, always were. They both "began" 13 billion years ago. Everything bears the mark of contingency. Why is there a lottery at all? Why is there something rather than nothing? You've come nowhere near to answering those questions.

[@BishopBarron]

@adstanra I'm not romanticizing it; I'm arguing that it was spiritually richer. Heroic materialism is not enough!

[@BishopBarron]

@SaschaRegensburg I did my masters work in philosophy on Marx. I stand by the statements I made. I'm not trying to demonize him; but I do think he opened the door to moral relativism, especially in his philosophy of man.

[@BishopBarron]

@CitizenSkeptic Well, why don't we start with the existence of God? I have argued that the contingency of the world points toward a non-contingent ground and that this first cause must, accordingly, be that which exists through the power of its own essence. And that which exists through the power of its own essence is unlimited in its actuality. That takes care of the conscious creator. As to the other points, give me more than 500 characters!

[@BishopBarron]

@adstanra Let me argue it from the other side. If the argument from contingency is right, we have to come to some reality which exists through the power of its own essence. You seem to have conceded this, but you are identifying that reality with "energy." The problem is that the truly non-contingent, must be that whose very nature is to be. But anything that is subject to change and development in any sense is marked by potency and hence cannot be that whose nature is to be.

[@carlottaohara7668]

Incredible!!!!

[@BishopBarron]

@adstanra Sure they are! They were both radically effected at the Big Bang, and they continue to ebb, flow, change, and develop throughout the history of the cosmos. This means that, to use classical philosophical vocabulary, they are marked by potency. That which exists through the power of its own essence, that whose very nature is to be, is characterized as pure act, pure reality. No matter how pervasive "energy" and gravity are, they are not actus purus!

[@Blaseboniface]

@adstanra The joy we are talking about is in a different category, and is intimately connected to the experience of God's saving Love in one's own Heart. You will know the taste of an orange when you taste it by the Grace of God, and so it is with joy, atonement, and the necessity of an example of pure innocence that not only shows but is the Way. The Sacred, Ancient, and Deep Technology of the Catholic Tradition provides a Complete Map for the sincere seeker.

[@BishopBarron]

@CitizenSkeptic Well that's what I call a convincing counter-argument!

[@dannysze8183]

I like civilization series and I am an architect. I hate modern skyscrapers, there is no sense of space and no sense of spirituality inside the building. I live in Hong Kong and the most iconic buildings are ICC and IFC which are the headquarters of investment banks. While in the past time, the most prominent buildings are churches and cathedrals. This is a problem of 'world soul' and it creates a lot of psychological problem in contemporary society. I am not religious but I believe in spirituality.

[@FaithandReason101]

learning new things isnt properly 'evolution of intellect.' it is using what is already there.

[@G-Rockman]

not if you learn something that fundamentally changes the structure of your thoughts. at a certain level even the hardware itself is changing shape.

[@BishopBarron]

@adstanra No! You've just permanently postponed the inevitable answer. You've just appealed endlesly and hence fruitlessly to other contingent conditions. You've got to come, finally, to a properly non-contingent ground, or the whole system has no foundation. Some reality "outside" of the contingent order has to be invoked or else we've explained precisely nothing.

[@Blaseboniface]

@adstanra It IS about feeding them "the same story over and over" again, that God loves them, died for them, and is knocking at their door. If "they" would but answer God would come in and dine with them and they with Him, and suddenly, the scales, as with St. Paul, would fall from their eyes, and they would be converted. As Father Barron says, "The sure sign that God is alive in you is joy."

[@DiehardJack]

In the narrative of "Heroic Materialism, " the heroes of this story are secularists, materialists, and secularist, materialist, progressives. Do these heroes fight for justice, as all true heroes should? Webster's defines justice, as, "the principle or ideal of just dealing or right action." Do these heroes take the right action, for cause of justice? Are they, to use the religious connotation, righteous?

[@xiragata]

Personal joy is a gift from God, when we believe in Him, and obey His Commandments; the only thing that takes away joy from us is sin. Yes, we can mourn personal losses, but if we did not sin the losses will be forgotten and joy will spring quickly back in our lives; a sinner lives under a mantle of evil and this is the cause of the lack of happines in the life of such person. The larger the sin the more there is a lack of joy. In today's world is called "depression".

[@BishopBarron]

@adstanra Forget "the universe" for a moment and just concentrate on yourself. You haven't so far given an adequate metaphysical account of why you, who are utterly contingent, actually exist. You can appeal to other contingent causes--your parents, food, oxygen, etc.--but that is just to postpone the ultimate question.

[@elzbietahapsburska3711]

I think one of the issues with Marx is that he believed revolution was the key to equality. As history tells us, Marxist revolutions end in the replacement of one tyrannical regime with a communist one usually worse that the first. Personally I think the only answer to the problem of poverty is a change of heart, not of government, but Marx's pragmatism (and perhaps materialism) did not allow for a more spiritual solution.

[@BishopBarron]

@SaschaRegensburg If, as Marx argued, "human nature is nothing but the sum total of social relations," then there is no objective ground for morality in human nature itself. And if, as Marx argued, the achievement of the communist condition through violent struggle is the supreme end, then any means chosen to attain it is morally justifiable. And if, as Marx argued, there is no God, there is no objective and unconditioned good. Bottom line: moral relativism.

[@tigerarmyrule]

Quite remarkable on youtube to see comments both well thought out and not simply a slanging match. Yes the Uffizi or Accademia has lots of Pietas meastas etc but equally 20th century American art has lots of mindless colourful blobs. To me ( and please do not suppose me a moron I am far from it ) to me the vast majority of our art today is trite self referential and jaded.

[@xiragata]

A very beautiful video all true. Large cities lack something; to me they lack warmth and empathy. It is called sometimes "The Stone Jungle" or "Selva de Pedra" , and maybe is one of the reasons I do not like large cities. The first time I visited one (in my adult years), as I walked the sidewalk I could perceive something in the air, like the air was dirty, a feeling of uncleanliness, invisible, something that made me very unseasy; like an aura. I am not talking about refuse or dirty streets,

[@BishopBarron]

@adstanra Well let's start with you. Did you have parents? Do you eat and drink and breathe? If you answer yes, then you are, in the sense that I'm using the term, contingent. You have to be explained. An infinite recourse to other contingent things won't do. Therefore we have to come to some reality which is non-contingent. There is no reason to invoke "the universe" to make this argument work. You'll do just fine.

[@KaiseRex42]

I remember Civilization as well and Clark did a great job. Appreciate what you say but wonder if a new generation understands the artistic arguments? Reading some of the comments I fear they do not! :( Never mind, the last part preview was also very good and looks like it might be fun. Hope to see more . . .

[@BishopBarron]

@SaschaRegensburg Show me, concretely, where "Marxism with a human face" has actually instantiated itself. There is a moral relativism at the heart of the Marxist project which, I'm afraid, fatally compromises it.

[@coldforgedcowboy]

Hey Father Barron, Is the Catholism Project just going to be from the perspective of the Latin Rite, because I have seen any Eastern Rite Churches in the trailers?

[@oracleofaltoona]

Related to the issue of what I see as order versus chaos (maybe that is oversimplification) do you ever see a value in going "out there" or past boundaries of current thought or even articles of faith in order to explore the boundaries of faith? Or is that a vain exercise in a sort of false boldness or taboo-busting - boldly going where we need not go - to paraphrase Captain Kirk.

[@oracleofaltoona]

Father Barron, have you ever done any commentary on the work of Philip Rieff?

[@Blaseboniface]

Wow! That was beautiful. Some of your viewers aren't getting it, because they keep coming from the anthropomorphic point of view-Triumph des Willens is artistic, Vanity Magazine is aesthetically stunning, but true to its' name without God like Heroic Materialism, "not enough", unfulfilled avarice and sadly empty. The Transcendentals-Truth and Goodness imbued with the love of God, raise beauty to Glory. "Deo...glorificamus te..."

[@michelledonnanwhodoesntkno5771]

When is mel gibsons new movie follow on to the "Passion" coming out? Anybody know?

[@rachealbrimberry8918]

nice segue. Introduce viewers to Kenneth Clarke, whose outstanding BBC TV series outlined Western Civilization, while showing off Catholic art and culture from ancient times until today (or the 60's when the series was made) and now, you feel you're the one to tell the story of Western Civilization in a similar fashion, except mainly underscoring Catholicism's contribution to Western civilization.

[@coldforgedcowboy]

@coldforgedcowboy ...... You know to get the real Eastern Rite experience Father Barron needs to visit a small parish in the middle of Siberia or Canada in the middle of winter when it's about -30C.

[@SaschaRegensburg]

@wordonfirevideo: "Moral relativism at its core": There is no moral relativism at the core of marxism. Quite to the contrary one of the main points of the marxist critique is the claim that an abstract moralism, which does not take the concrete conditions of economy and society into account is flawed. This is the Hegelian critique of Kant, the claim that "Sittlichkeit" as the concrete justification of action and institution must replace abstract moral.

[@elzbietahapsburska3711]

Furthermore, he also called religion "the opiate of the masses" . . . he was definitely against religion.

[@ClarkKasheta]

It would seem that art and architecture, at one time reflected God; then it moved to reflecting the individual (the Renaissance); then it moved to nature (Romanticism); now, to complete the digression, it reflects purely the material (modernity). Incidentally, as the emphasis in the Church has moved from "I" to "we," sacred art has suffered in parallel.

[@SaschaRegensburg]

@wordonfirevideo hm. Somehow I have the same feeling with you, father that I have with Christopher Hitchens: He has never read any serious book about Catholizism and you maybe could have a second look at Marx by reading e.g the Capital. I just cannot find your summary there.Maybe you mix up a sociological description ("nature determined by social relations" (in German "bedingt" is rather "conditioned" than "determined") with a moral claim. The "occupation" of human nature by social conditions

[@xtrashed]

@adstanra I like William Lane Craig as well. He presents standard arguments for Gods' existence etc. and it does not really matter what denomination you are part of.

[@JeffersonDinedAlone]

If the aforementioned hunter/gatherers had the capacity to develop the technology to land men on the moon and return them safely to the Earth, then why didn't they? According to you, the capacity was already present (as you had stated, they could have used what was already there). They didn't because they didn't have the capacity to do so, ie; they could not use what was already there, because it wasn't there. Why is what should be obvious not obvious to you?

[@FaithandReason101]

technology doesnt develop instantaneously, regardless of capacity. it requires a building up of the knowledge base to reach new levels. this does not mean mankind didnt have the capacity; it means they didnt have the knowledge. two different things.

[@JeffersonDinedAlone]

If human intelligence is incapable of evolving, then how could you possibly explain the human condition of being hunter/gatherers becoming the human condition of being able to land men on the moon and returning them safely to the Earth?

[@Bailey4President]

What is the piece of music that begins at 8:07?

[@xtrashed]

@adstanra Obviously you yourself are entranced by Father Barron and the Catholic faith because every video of his I see your comments. You just can not stop watching.

[@BlindEyeJones]

Even Christ says we will always have the poor. But if I had to be poor in a certain place I would be poor in the west were poverty is define by making less than $13,000 yearly and where you will never starve to death. This is not life threatening poverty as in Africa. The poor in the west feel poor because on their cell phones, provided for through government handouts, they watch Brad Pitt and see his million dollar Hollywood homes, and they feel they are "victims" and that they should be entitled to greater distribution of wealth. Where is the social justice when you need it!

[@1wordmanymystycs]

Heroic materialism is the worship of the golden calf.

[@robertmiller5258]

Lord Clark converted to Catholicism on his deathbed.

[@JeffersonDinedAlone]

Capacity and knowledge are two different things, however, you don't seem to be able to comprehend the genuine meaning of either, or what they actually imply.

[@MegaFORTUNE8]

I LOVE THE CATHOLIC CHURCH...

[@gkcfan]

And so, Father, long prior to our Holy Father John Paul II, we encounter G.K. Chesterton who, like the Holy Father and your coomentary here, decried both Communism and unbridled Capitalism. I know you've read it, but it never fails to provoke thought: What's Wrong With the World - G.K. Chesterton.

[@galolito]

There is only the human person, we are the creator of god.

[@muel0341]

One thing I have to admit that upsets me about these videos is that Fr. Barron, for all the criticisms of materialism and all his elloquence, he never seems to address to address the real problems in the church. Why are preists like him so incredibly rare? Why aren't we hearing about these truths in Church? Why are the great encyclical letters being witheld from the populace? Until you address those problems, you can complain all you want, but you wont get anywhere.

[@FaithandReason101]

you: how do you know Marxism doesn't work, no one has ever tried it. me: experiencing something is not the only way to know the nature of it. If some form of govt or way of living has an end that aims to promote soley the 'human person,' it will fail; this was tried once in a 'garden' along time ago.

[@billy1132]

Materialism is simply the love of physical wealth. Nothing heroic, nothing in Roman Catholicism makes one tick!!!

[@KarenReadsTwilight]

Fr Barron! You did NOT just call it the Willis Tower! Shame, Shame!

[@coldforgedcowboy]

@CitizenSkeptic..... You may "believe" that Father Barron exists but can your prove it? Better yet prove that "you" yourself actually exist! This is an important because you need to use the same methods that you use to prove your own existience to prove the existence of God.

[@thedarktower79]

@Dale Chawkins The lottery exists because money is at stake. People don't buy lottery tickets just because they enjoy scratching them.

[@Portoinfinitivo]

@SaschaRegensburg Oh, the Frankfurt school 'good enough for the Pope'? Now this is interesting. Wherever did you get this from?

[@inferno0020]

Here is what I knew about Marx: The key problem is that modern leftists neither regard Marx as the philosopher of history, nor Marx the economist. They regarded Marx as a modern prophet. Marx, like other great "philosophers", made brilliant arguments, as well as making many intellectual mistakes. Like Aristotle made mistakes about politics and science, Marx made a lot of mistakes on history, world politics, and philosophy. It will be unwise to idolize Marx and his ideologies.

[@galolito]

Clark was wrong about Marxism as is Barron. Just as has been said of christianity, how do you know Marxism doesn't work, no one has ever tried it. Oh and by the way Clark was only speaking of European Civilisation, which is why he emphasized christianty rather than islam or buddhism or any other religion.

[@coldforgedcowboy]

@CitizenSkeptic....... Have you ever proved your own existence? It's really not that easy!

[@SaschaRegensburg]

@wordonfirevideo that the social actors dont understand and dont command is a CRITIQUE of society. (structural sin of society getting people to sin habitually). The insight that human n. is social rather unites marxism and Christianity in contrast to the abstract individualism of liberalism. (We pray: our daily bread give US, not ME!) Class struggle btw is also rather a description of a socio-economic fact. Anyway. Decent on the topic: Th. Steinbuechel (Ratzinger cites him as strong influence)

[@DenisOhAichir]

Why I detest cities.

[@xtrashed]

@adstanra He is Evangelical, but as I said the arguments he presents have nothing to do with denomination. They are for all. There is nothing for example in the moral argument that matters whether you are Catholic or Evangelical lol.

[@ammazzamoro]

@powereddrive Indeed, it was an artistic affair as every action should be ordered. The philosophically true Work of Art is the continued expression of the Divine Image impressed upon Man. +++ alms. fasting. prayer.

[@joannelarcher6246]

that is your opinion

[@FaithandReason101]

you havent addressed the comment i made by attacking 'my understanding.' thats an ad hominem fallacy (something you are quite known for here..) at least you agree you made an error by trying to lump knowledge and human capacity (intellect) as the 'same' thing.

[@xiragata]

@CitizenSkeptic How do you know they are not true?Can you prove it? What is myth to you it is true to others.

[@SaschaRegensburg]

@wordonfirevideo on Marxism. a) Marxism is a economic critique of the reality of the capitalist society and economy. b) It does not give a recipe for any future society c) Therefore Marx can not be held responsible for the regimes in the Soviet Union and China. No, "Marxism with a human face" has not yet been in power, so what?

[@JeffersonDinedAlone]

That is a personal perspective, which, of course, you are entitled to, however, it conveys nothing, whatever, beyond only a personal perspective.

[@FaithandReason101]

God is the creator of the human person; intelligence and free will are incapable of evolving.

[@Blaseboniface]

@wordonfirevideo

[@DopoNotte]

Tower of Babel

[@jonrendell]

All praise atheism!

[@BishopBarron]

I'm sure "atheism" is delighted to receive your adulation.

[@coldforgedcowboy]

@powereddrive .....impoverished and inhumane as we seem to be 50 million babies in the United States alone.

[@SaschaRegensburg]

Maybe you might want to check out what Walter Benjamin wrote about Capitalism as Religion. By the way: Your constant identification of Marxism with Soviet Style Communism is below your usual intellectual level. Even the Pope knows that and therefore has quite interesting debates with Habermas, who is coming directly coming from this western tradition of Marxism.

[@lougalou04]

Ha! Ha! Ha! I'm always amused when atheists hoist their intellectualism above that of religious people. Sure seems like you need to do your reading on the topic and not Fr. Barron. You were Barron-slapped.

[@auradiana]

my response is that Father Barron is a cute geek. He needs to be kissed on the cheek with all due respect ;)