World of Warships- German DD Split: 10/10 Idea, 5/10 Execution

[@thelahna-8747]

wonder if they would add the first dd line with the spotter planes, then it would really start to feel more like small heavy cruiser

[@saiyajinog7424]

In Germany, they were classified as "scout-cruisers" (roughly translated from "Späh-Kreuzer"), scout-CRUISERS. I have no idea why WG thought, "hey let's make them destroyers that are completely useless as destroyers"......

[@jaywerner8415]

WG logic

[@slyguythreeonetwonine3172]

Because WG hates people who want to play the German line.

[@papabeanguy]

Its more like... 5/10 Idea 0/10 Execution

[@captain_loeffel]

It is a cruiser killer that can't kill cruisers, so where should the point come from, as it has no real other abilities. Everything else it can't do either. SO more a total fail than anything else.

[@bl1tzdevil30]

Only gimmick is their existence

[@davidpotts7116]

Ways to fix this line: 1. Make them actual cruisers 2. Give them hydro to watch for torps and special heal to outlast their target as well as keeping the smoke and dfaa 3. Make their torps faster and have more range because those things won’t catch anything other than an unaware bb 4. Give them a better turning radius and less concealment. Can’t really scout if you have terrible kiting ability and concealment

[@shinkicker404]

TBH, I feel as though they need some more tools, like speed boost or (improved?) heal, and main battery reload booster added to what they have already. Or hell, they could have been the thing to add (short range) radar to German ships. Make them worth a DD slot by being really good at ambushing, otherwise move them to using cruiser slots in MM since they just seem to sit back more like a cruiser than a DD. Of course none of that will happen (we all know WGs approach to anything German) and this line will be forgotten like the British cruisers. ZF-6 is great, they should have been more in line with it, this is ultimately really disappointing. They probably need more armor and health too. Maybe they could have reflective smoke that dampens radar or something to counter all the radar cruisers have, you know, like ships IRL had it could be their gimmick that they block radar.

[@sealordmountbatten]

Just giving them a decent heal would make them so much better

[@yhormthemidget]

I would fear the day that WG puts these ships into cruiser slots. You would have even less utility in your team. This line was a net loss for the game. They are plain useless, actively hurting your team, and they even nerfed the old DD line by taking 150mm guns from them. They could give them MBRB but they will still be worse than french DDs. They could give them the KMS Hydro, but they cant deal with DDs well. They could give them heal, but the Khaba would still be superior. The whole problem is the AP focus. AP is a situational ammo type you can play against. You cant do anything to BBs in general, you cant do anything to ships bow on or kiting away. DDs in general are already opportunists and spotters. However this split can not capitalize on mistakes. The torps are the worst I have ever seen on any DD, you dont have the DPM to kill DDs caught off guard. You have to shoot AP because your HE is some tier 3 DPM, yo you wont set fires or break modules on DDs. All you have is AP firepower on a lone unaware CL from 8km. If they have a single brain cell, they will just turn in after the first salvo, killing your AP and sink you. Even if they had great HE, the Khaba would still be better with heal, speed and HE shattering side. I cant see any situation where this ship could be better than other options. Just play a Khaba or Kléber.

[@seeskabel4561]

@@yhormthemidgetwell the t8 z got a 50k AP dpm buff or sth like that

[@rafaelmtdsantos]

ap dpm is better on Z-23 now, but in the other hand she became kinda crappy at setting fires on enemy battleships, from 12% fire chance per shell to 6%

[@amadeokomnenus1414]

The moment WG tried to sell me tech line ships, i denounced the execution of the release

[@alexanderwatson1980]

But why? You don't have to buy them - you could just wait for the tech-tree release, if you even care about them.

[@dzello]

They don't sell tech tree ships, they sell preaccess mostly. Nothing wrong with that at all, actually.

[@ugaladh]

As you indirectly alluded to, now that Random games routinely have 6 BBs per team, there aren't going to be many Cruisers to go after .

[@theomenofwow]

Most I've seen of a days play is 4. Commonly 3. You end up just ap firing at BBs

[@jasonoshea7947]

Flamu said it best in his video on the Felix Schultz , he would not like to see this ship on his team for a match, that's says it all about this horrible ''DD'' split line. This says a lot about WG & their current disconnect with the game they are supposed to be developing . I can only imagine what would happen to this ship if a barely competent captain in a FDR turned up with his rocket planes. This line now is clear evidence that WG no longer even pay lip service to their supertesters & CC's with regards to evaluating new lines , that or the worse thing is that WG don't care at all now which if true will only lead the game downhill from here on out .

[@kieran3507]

he did say that if they had some of the tools the Z-F6 has, then they would be a lot better/worth the grind

[@Jkend199]

... Sigh, allow me to mansplain to you so u can understand. Most important thing DD's do 1. Cap 2. Spot 3. Hunt Other DD's 4. Devastate other ships with torpedo attacks ... 103. Farm trivial amounts of AP damage

[@NoFramesPerSecond3924]

12:51 LOL THAT FLAK PUFF

[@arongyorffy3070]

These ships would have been great like 3 years ago. Nowadays we have so many borderline "broken" DDs in this game that it is quite hard to come up with a new idea and make it compatitve against the other without causing outrage. For a long time it seems that it is only acceptable to complain about russian ships, and their features, (nobody would have any problems with radar if russian ships didn't have them), but I think we can all see that the tier 9-10 destroyer setup is quite busted. We have things like Daring, Sommers, Smaland, Vampire II etc. nobody ever asked to nerf them, but I think we can all agree that these ships are more OP then Khabarovsk ever used to be, but people don't get offended by them, since they are not russian. This is the problem: If you want to make a attractive new DD line, then you must make them either unique or stronger then the other, and it is quite hard to make something stronger than the Daring or Smaland. And if they are not hyperultrasuperturbomega good at something then people don't care, or outright hate them. In my opinion these ships are just fine, but the other tier 10 destroyers are well over the limit, and since they are not russian, nobody wants to nerf them.

[@Anldiot69]

I absolutely hate the design of high dpm gunboats with great concealment, because they don't give you any time to react or counterplay. Just run into a Druid yesterday in my akizuki. When I tried to turn and use smoke i barely managed to escape with 80% of my health gone in like 12sec. Don't get me even started with smaland and it's bullshit radar+heal. Like what is the random T8-10 DD supposed to do in that situation except die or escape with lots of lost HP?

[@yesman2948]

To fix them simply bring them in line with the plans/design/hull they are based on aka the Spahkreuzer's (Scout cruisers). 1)Remove the DFAA it practically useless on them they are not the magical mini floating AA battery that are the Swedish. Give them a repair party instead. 2) Give them either sonar or radar so they can fulfil their sort of off angle taking scouting role. 3) Give it the spotter plane it had so it can really make use of it's great guns when taking an angle and catching out an enemy cruiser etc (Maybe remove the smoke) 4) Possibly increase the armor slightly.

[@SuwinTzi]

Really seems like WG has it out for KM ships. Odin is basically a large cruiser in a BB slot, unable to do BB things. The new KM DDs are small cruisers that can't do HE dpm, in a DD slot, and unable to do DD things OR cruiser things. Edit: now some WG employee is gonna be scraping feedback and realize they fucked up letting the Shultz do the AA trap.

[@bodasactra]

Take up a traditional destroyer spot, with all its team utility, for a niche a cruiser hunting specialist ill equipped to fill its already dubious role? You used the perfect word in describing them, weird. Good work, +1 like!

[@Straswa]

Nice vid Sea Lord. Well said.

[@19Crusader91]

DDs need to have citadels. Than heavy hitting dd ap guns will have a fucking point to exist.

[@jaredthehawk3870]

You have to look at why the Germans built such oversized destroyers in the first place. They were meant to compete with the large French destroyers like the Le Fantastique and Mogador classes. The results were badly overweight and top heavy ships with very bad sea keeping. Their "torpedo boats" were actually the more conventional destroyers. The Elbing is the spähkreuzer design which as it's name suggests was meant as a fleet scouting unit and nothing more.

[@doktorhund6926]

Why dont These Things have Hydro.

[@sg_dan]

Weren't these DDs based on the Spähkreuzer designs of plan Z? I feel like they were given their overall role and appearance.

[@gaeliel]

The Spahkreuzer was a pretty terrible idea anyway, so hooray for realism I guess

[@gaeliel]

@ANUBHAV SHARMA one on one maybe, but it would have to run from anything like a Town class, and a pair J classes would most likely sink it. While displacing less.

[@CH3TN1K313]

Elbing is Spähkreuzer 1940

[@anthrax2413]

To use your AP effectively, you have to flank enemy ships.....and risk getting in a fight against a DD that can outspot and out DPM you, which means anything above tier III.

[@jesse8381]

Dredsen could literally win in a duel against these things

[@TheBigGiant_SpaceChiken]

It could have been worse. If you remember, when WG first takled about this line, they said it wasn´t going to have smoke. At least they realized that these DDs do need smoke. What I don´t understand is, why the gave the ZF-6 a gun reload booster an not the rest of the line? I think these DDs should either get a heal or a reload booster. Or at least give them faster torps, so they can do DDs things.

[@nickname_5871]

if they add heal, fast torps with good reload and speed boost on that line it would be decent. And keep in mind what I said, it would be just decent not great. I really don t see place in game for them right now, there is no chance they can win against crusier 1vs1,

[@jaywerner8415]

Like the DD line that they already have?

[@lubossoltes321]

they need more alpha on the AP ... they need USN smokes as they have the range to make use of them ... they need some better agility ... and that's just the start of the list ...

[@aLilSandWitch]

They really need to make a special slot for hybrid ships in mm. Though this is the same mm that thinks blow outs are perfectly ok.

[@RicardoGonzalez-to7vb]

It feels like they are trying to pull form the CA/CL to add to DD pool by making it act as a CL

[@AdmiralMidway]

good concept, terrible execution. WOWS in a nutshell

[@garakmadness]

Last 2 lines suck THE END

[@eliotkmiec680]

Come to think of it, these are historically "scout cruisers" right? Why wouldn't WG give them a crappy german radar set and hydro and make them about spotting dmg instead of the current consumables?

[@Moon_Cricket_Stinks]

If these Big DDs had HE that just dunked enemy DDs, abd AP that can dunk on CLs. Have 3 heals, turning circle slightly worse than normal DDs, but much better than cruisers, the AA is nice, and beefy torps since it's much larger than a DD. Changout hydro for radar but keep smoke would allow player to have the hydro run, or play smoke/radar. Shouldn't have all 3 since that'd be broken af. I think it would fair much better

[@JohnDiabol]

Buff their reload a bit or give them 20% better HE damage to better deal with enemy DD's, give them hydro and some other minor tweeking and then we can talk.

[@JohnDiabol]

@ANUBHAV SHARMA hopefully they will see during testing now that these ships aren't all that good. To me they seem like an almost entirely pointless idea. If the AP didn't constantly overpen DDs then this new line might va worked better, but as it is right now it's pretty pointless.

[@JohnDiabol]

@ANUBHAV SHARMA supposedly it already has a short fuse, but a shorter one wouldn't hurt I think. Either that or replace HE with SAP. It's not like the Italians were the only navy that used sap during the war.

[@JohnDiabol]

@ANUBHAV SHARMA not if the sap shells have low penetration at around 30mm, then you'd still need AP to deal effective damage to battleships and most cruisers.

[@baldurheinrich1471]

I notice a change in this update that was not in the dev blog, the z23 german destroyer techline ship, they changed the guns from 150mm to 128mm! And those are not even historical!

[@jaywerner8415]

Yeah both of the techline 150mm DDs got their big guns removed, 128s only.

[@baldurheinrich1471]

​@@jaywerner8415 It's sad that they got removed.

[@zagareth4604]

Colbert - French promo premium Tier X cruiser. Not a DD...

[@neishark1735]

These DDs scream to have a heal. If WG intend to make them cruiser killers, they need a heal.

[@CH3TN1K313]

I been saying same thing since they leaked on WoWS Blog

[@wud1ey479]

I do love how they look though

[@jaywerner8415]

Considering WG's words to describe these ships where "above average, average, decent" ectera, i don't even think they thought this though. People say the HE sucks? well no shit its GERMAN HE, GERAMN HE SUCKS. The fact that the only consumable these ships have is SMOKE (German smoke at that, the their 9 and 10 get DEF AA for the lols) is just dumb given you supposed to fight cruisers, GIVEM THEM A HEAL FOR GOD SAKE, they might live a little longer at least. Oh and let me point something out, the CURRENT German DD line has 2 DDs with 150mm guns as an option, Yup you guessed, it WG is removing them from those ships (the tier 6 and tier 9 if im not mistaken) and they are arguably just BETTER, the tier 6 has smoke, speed boost AND hydro, 6 torpedos i think, and 4 guns (feel free to correct me)

[@dcsa4273]

Out of the major WG games, WoWs devs sht on every non russian ship. WoT just rarely touched the german tanks. Then WoTB, buff german tank this, buff german that. Add armor to this, add armor to that.

[@jesse8381]

the blitz devs are the only one that gives a shit

[@willytheekid]

Gotta love that they locked the ONLY good german DD behind a grind/paywall with the dockyard "event" 😂 ...at least in regards to blatant greed...they are consistant! 🤣

[@petrosmarko3092]

It's a company and like every other company their aim is to make money. Yeah it sucks and stuff but think for yourself. If you were a company wouldn't yoiu want to make money? Think bullshit logic... Leave aside the cc and that stuff, on thay field I'm with you. I agree that it sucks the fact that they don't listen to them or the community that much. But I know for a fact that if I were in their shoes I would try to make money with every way I could think of but on the other hand make people smile and have fun.

[@doge4818]

Honestly they need more hp or heals... they can't hunt crusers that have more health than them.

[@monkeyrater]

It was a dumb idea, german DDs were already known for having heavier than average AP that didnt actually do anything and everything else about german DDs was just average and power crept. So they make a new german DD line that is actually worse than the powercrept DDs already in the game. Z-31 is trash, mearker and schulz are barely passable and not as good as their corresponding existing tech tree DDs. I think its time that WG just stops trying to come up with new ideas for ships because everything they do lately is making the game worse and they should concentrate on making new game modes and improving the game level maps.

[@kevinhennessey3189]

Funny that WG released this steaming pile while at the same time having the great ZF 6 for the dockyard event.

[@sirtogii5216]

Well, at least they haven't introduced a way OP line that everybody has to grind just to see it get nerfed to the ground 4 patches later... A heal would definitely help them but even then why take up a DD slot with something that doesn't do DD things. Although we have plenty of BB slots taken up by players that don't do BB things I suppose. Still find it strange. With Deadeye they rewarded BBs playing far away from the objectives and effectively banned cruisers from doing so. With this line they promote DDs to play away from the objectives. What's going to try to play close to the objectives, submarines?

[@beyond560]

Is WG just running out of ideas? new lines recently just seem meh and the meta wont allow them to work at all

[@nualanet]

Matchmaking and the game meta both need to change to stop simply dumping ships into games based on a loosely-defined umbrella "class". These Spähkreuzer types cannot be expected to perform as an old school DD. e.g. An AA spec Atlanta and an Alaska are both "cruisers"... but that's where they part ways with regard to mission and tactics.

[@alexanderwatson1980]

Did WG ever actually *say* 7km AA or AA traps weren't cool? Or is that just another example of CV haters pushing the narrative?

[@sealordmountbatten]

They introduced a change a while ago that changed the mechanics of the priority sector mechanic that made it almost impossible for 90% of DDs to pull off AA traps

[@zagareth4604]

Every secondary of a german BB is more worth than these new ships.

[@earthisadonut4962]

I assumed they were sub hunters, given the fact that subs are on the horizon, but I haven't played them, do I wouldn't know.

[@Revkor]

and people think subs are going to work

[@stevenwiederholt7000]

Translation: Save Your Money.

[@stevepeterson6070]

You know what this game needs? More ways to kill DDs. I mean yeah currently we have enough RADAR ships on each side in EVERY RANDOM to keep radar up 100% of the game, and yeah we have 1 or 2 CVs in 99% of games that are specifically designed to insta-spot and insta-kill DDs, and yes most ships now adays played in RANDOMs has killing DDs as their top specialty, and yes almost all newly introduced DDs also are designed to hunt and kill DDs but really people still play DDs, which means we haven't achieved the goal yet. We need to get people to stop queueing that ship class. We are so close, one or two more anti-DD things and no-one will ever queue them again.

[@user-ms4ef8xz9t]

Have my doubts. DDs designed to hunt CLs?! Aren't CLs designed to hunt DDs? This line of thinking is kind of nuts.

[@sardaukerlegion]

I'm not leaving my Udaloy for this..... crap. Are there no beta tester, or are those testers useless?

[@Josh10Force]

Since WeeGee seemingly doesn't listen to CCs and testers, pretty much

[@AllAhabNoMoby]

I really am curious to see where this line is going. Cause I don't see it. I'm no DD main although I play them a bit. But these seem like they're good at absolutely NOTHING, and really bad at almost everything. I am certainly not going to even try them unless and until I hear others say they're actually great. No hydro... wtf?

[@seeskabel4561]

Well for a smolensk it will be defenetely harder to kill them

[@bigbear3409]

Me wanting to say something that will get me likes since I am early Also me: Nothing to say

[@kalyanmantha1800]

Good try but u failed again

[@lukasvtipil9951]

I was thinking on what to reply to this comment but couldn't come up with anything

[@bigbear3409]

@@lukasvtipil9951 I see what u are doing there

[@seeskabel4561]

TAKE SUPERHEAVY AP SHELLS DUDE

[@antoniohagopian213]

Why are you taking fearless brawler on this??? It's not a khaba, you shouldn't be shooting 24/7 so it's a waste of 4 pts...

[@sealordmountbatten]

Because your guns are still your primary source of damage, so you will be using them mainly, meaning you’ll get spotted. So why not get a boost to your RPM in the process? Plus with Lutjens, you can really stack the RPM boosts. In addition, the penalty to your concealment is leaving in 10.4

[@teemu3370]

WG and good idea/bad execution....

[@rx-0862]

lol always entertaining to see CV hate on chat, gotta love that perfectly balanced class

[@madcapmagician3130]

You really weren’t even trying to dodge the air dropped torps in this game were you?

[@bl1tzdevil30]

Im laughing at the people defending these ships using the "Just use the Ap" idea when there are roughly 11 other Tech tree DDs with better AP DPM. Even with its busted AP pen, the lack of any form of gun based dpm makes this line a 0/10 in execution. Still love the idea, but these ships just aren't it chief.

[@stazbloodlad339]

7km Aa uff

[@mustclime5311]

these dd's are suppose to be French dd's that the germens took to fight......yet another fail by WG. I will not be wasting my time on this line.

[@Threesixtyci]

Waste of a dd slot.

[@μιατρελητρεληφαρμα]

70th lol

[@bigbear3409]

Second lol

[@risregi3695]

plz stop sugar coding this line is so bad and come again wat AA these thing don't have AA

[@howardwu8406]

first

[@Mike-DuBose]

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