Worse Than Diablo Immоrtаl? How Torchlight Infinite Lied About Pay 2 Win | Asmongold Reacts

[@McFluffinGaming]

Thanks Asmongold! I love watching your reaction vids, so actually being on one is freakin awesome!

[@ActionRPG]

Congrats Mcfluffin! This was a great video... you deserve the attention 👏

[@csguy3223]

Dude you did a great job breaking down what’s going on and you totally deserve the bump for it.

[@MitChHic]

Good job on the video man.

[@Kyomara1337]

Great video, thank you for explaining all the shady stuff they did. Sad to see Torchlight become the same garbage that Diablo has since I very much enjoyed the earlier versions and was looking forward to Infinite.

[@krumdark]

Dude gratz

[@em3sis]

Just for clarification, Torchlight 2 was developed by Runic Games, Torchlight 3 was developed by Echtra games, and Torchlight Infinite is developed by XD Games (aka Xindong Network) a chinese developer.

[@Majora96]

Makes sense

[@johnphillips4708]

Poor Runic, when I was in college in Seattle they had their office right next to our northern most building, walked by their people on the street all the time and loved their products, but never talked to any of them. 🤷🏼‍♂️

[@thoughtsfromnobody1845]

I thought it was made by perfect World / Arc

[@idkanymore9330]

Ah poor Torchlight, it's like in those movies where the girl who wasn't saved is a drug addict prostitute and she doesn't want you to save her anymore because this is her reality now and shes lost hope

[@jossefyoucef4977]

XD

[@ramontavaresdacruz2256]

Man, that sucks. Torchlight was an actually fun IP. Didn't played 3 that much but I played the 2nd a lot when it launched.

[@Darkeep12]

Well, yeah, you could practically see this one coming as soon as Perfect World got their hands on them.

[@masterjenkins632]

Torchlight 3 sucked donkey balls compared to 1 and 2

[@alwaysangry2232]

@@Darkeep12 more perfect dumpster

[@GrimnirLaguz28]

It still is fun, though. The p2w is not as bad as people make it seem to be (at least not yet, maybe that will change in the future) and the game itself, in terms of gameplay and pretty much every other aspect is better than TL1 and TL2 was. And I enjoyed both of those games. I played the last test and I cannot recall the last time I had this much fun. The best part - it feels fun from the first few minutes of the game, it's fast and looks great.

[@SleepyFen]

Torchlight 1 and 2 were some of my favorite games at the time. It's so sad to see what Perfect World has done to the franchise.

[@emilymschoener9193]

Could not agree more.

[@DarknessInferno15]

Perfect World is always a disaster. If you see their name on anything, be very wary.

[@justincider8892]

I really liked 1 and 2. I heard 3 was trash and never tried it. I didn't even know infinite existed.

[@Darkflo23]

Torchlight 1 and 2 were some of my favorites ARPG, a shame what happened to this serie.

[@metallboy25]

The creators sold the IP. Different companies use it now.

[@Darkflo23]

@@metallboy25Yeah i saw that, are the original creators working on something ?

[@SleepyFen]

@@Darkflo23 they made a puzzle game called Hob, but the studio turned off the lights in 2017. Their website is still online and has the announcement at the top of the front page. They were owned by Perfect World, who bought them after the release of Torchlight 2. (edit: looks like PW bought Runic before the release of TL2). Perfect World apparently closed the studio as part of a restructure/round of layoffs because it wanted to focus on "games as a service."

[@Darkflo23]

@@SleepyFen Thats suck, i hope they found new jobs at least. I hate these games as a service , they are all money sink that offer less for more. At least Elden Ring reminded some people what true game look like.

[@SleepyFen]

@@KyokujiFGC Perfect World bought Runic after they made Torchlight 1. Runic published TL2 and Hob while under Perfect World, but was dissolved because Perfect World wanted to focus on "games as a service". From there it appears Perfect World made TL3 before selling off the IP to a third party. Perfect World's game branch was then sold to Embracer Group, and they recently released Tower of Fantasy. Hob got decent reviews afaik but the game was pretty niche and people really just wanted Torchlight 3 more than a new IP.

[@chinkyflahz]

The thing is..its a single player game.. u spend money to make the game easier and since theres no other players, they have no advantage over you.. just dont spend and enjoy the free game

[@BloodDarkPearl]

Torchlight 2 is still one of the best ARPG ever, period. What a fucking shame they ended up like this.

[@TidusfromZanarkand]

I clicked on this just because I played Torchlight 1 and 2 on release, incredible games, I haven't even heard the name of the franchise since then . . Man this makes me so sad

[@flyyf1]

FR I loved the first 2 games and seeing this is disappointing.

[@SleepyFen]

Runic Games got bought by Perfect World, which might be a familiar name if you've played Asian f2p pay2win MMO's in the past. Runic developed and released a puzzle game named Hob to decent success, but after that the studio was shut down as part of a restructure as Perfect World wanted to focus on "games as a service". Then we got Torchlight 3, which got absolutely hammered in the reviews thanks in no small part to Perfect World's philosophies seeping into the game. And now another Torchlight game looks to be the same. Runic is nowhere to be seen in stuff like this.

[@laszloneumann500]

This game is better than TL2 and im saying that habóving played TL2 for a decade, having over 4k hours in it

[@harbhub]

@@laszloneumann500 No one cares. It's Pay-to-Win Gatcha garbage. The fact that you're even playing Torchlight Infinite is objective proof that you're a fool. Fix your brain lol...

[@Oleanderthal]

just play the game, dont spend a dime on it. just play it. im kind of dissapointed in asmon for making this video without having any real insight into the game.

[@ChabuTwo]

Man I was kind of excited for the next Torchlight. No longer, I guess ...

[@Blackbaldrik]

Time to just mod Torchlight 2 some more.

[@TheOmegaCloud]

Ironic, once upon a time Torchlight was the "Ethic Diablo".

[@Denamic]

I remember when Torchlight was made by the good guys

[@SleepyFen]

Those were the days. TL3 was supposed to have been the game to beat Diablo 3, but Perfect World had other plans :(

[@Main267]

@@SleepyFen A Perfect World in their eyes is the one where they have all of the money at the expense of a good experience for all.

[@naytewilson]

@@Main267 that’s every company on the planet, and will never change.

[@jackraven1308]

Hey Asmongold, glad to see your still doing well! Appreciate the vids! 👊🏻

[@aaviusa835]

This comment is wholesome thank you

[@alfedrale6660]

@@aaviusa835 no ty man

[@vi8799]

When they say about Diablo 4 that this is a game for PC and consoles, we immediately understand that most likely these mechanics will not be there. But as soon as we talk about a mobile game, we immediately imagine gacha and p2win. Where does this disregard for mobile platforms come from? Do mobile game developers treat their players like complete idiots?

[@cr0mag732]

Mobile game players are complete idiots, if they weren't then it wouldn't happen

[@donaldcuck2265]

Mobile developers generally treat the platform as one big casino, especially free 2 play games, premium games is a different beast, but mobile has billions more fee 2 play games than premium ones these days.

[@Majora96]

Ads are really big in mobile. No desktop or console game would ever have like random video ads or rewarded ads or pop up ads or banner ads like mobile games do. So the mobile games that can pay for the most advertising become popular, and the best games for that are the gacha and pay to win crap games. Every in game purchase someone makes means they can pay to advertise the game to another thousand people and the cycle repeats.

[@Gooba03]

I got the season pass and the first 2 recharges. About the same cost as any other game ever released. And I got to end game just fine. You 100% do not need max legendary pactscripts.

[@kibordpengin]

Torchlight 1 and 2 are some of the best ARPGs available, to this very day. The pet system, the world, the classes, all of it was great and original and fun to play, and still worth buying. And then they totally fucked the series and sold the company. wompwomp.

[@serge2cool]

Hard second this. Its soooo fun to play TL1 and even moreso TL2! This is just outright disgusting. At least I still got the original 2 games in my Steam library for next to nothing. Get stuffed mobile!

[@ordinant2504]

A streamer called WoolieGaming played this game on stream a while back since he heard it was 'not pay to win.' And then he went through it with a fine comb and found the garbage that was hidden within. Glad to see more people talking about it

[@djmicth4150]

tell him he could put his fine comb up the shit has a battle pass 😂

[@ordinant2504]

@@djmicth4150 damn I don't remember it having that. It's even worse than I thought

[@wilhelm2112ryan]

Game is not an mmo with raids and stuff like that to have people be excluding players for low gear score like immortal and doesnt have pvp yet again like immortal. In this instance something is only as predatory as the mental fortitude of the person playing it to just not swipe as there is literally NO REASON to feel like you are competing against anything other than yourself here. Just my probably unpopular take lol

[@uberhuber7903]

I've been liking the game. Good feel and pace for a diablo style game. Not sure what they want me to buy, outside maybe the pets. I have purple ones and one legendary for free though so I'm good. I've been doing fine. You can also grind them, like every legendary scraps for pieces to roll more so idk why the guy lied and said you can't get them by playing the game. Comparing it to diablo immortal is sort of dishonest as someone who has played both.

[@eduardwolfsmilch3904]

When i first read the title, i actually did not realize that the game is called Torchlight Infinite, i read it as "Torchlight's infinite monetization" 😄

[@Ging75]

I know ppl like to blame Genshin for these kinds of games but one thing I will give Genshin is there is no pvp so meta doesnt matter on top of everything in the game being earnable, nothing is entirely paywalled so paying in that game is entirely on the person for no reason other then for their personal enjoyment

[@TheLaiwen]

People often blame genshin for making this monetisation method more mainstream, which definitely is the case. It has been one hell of a bad influence.

[@llow1170]

Torchlight 2 was an amazing game. I spent a few hundred hours playing it without mods. Shame that Runic let it go and this is what it became.

[@fargnbastage]

The devs have changed how Hero Traits are gotten. They got rid of the gacha system and now placed 1 in the FREE season pass or DIRECT purchase, and some will you can get for free with unlocking achievements.

[@LunaaBluee]

Bro all the mfs saying the game is pay 2 win haven’t played the game at all lmfao

[@jeffciprian4211]

21:08 lol I love that he used this node as an example of "pay to win" even though it is a free node and the pact spirit literally has no bearing on this node. Clearly shows this guy doesn't know how the system actually works.

[@thxttiewithdavibez5825]

It's incredible how people can barely put time into a game and judge. Like play without pets and find a gate. They only way you get stuck in progression if you dont undertstand gear

[@stryder6361]

you can play the game, and all of the game if you put in the time. the pet system and skins is a gotcha system. sucks you cant buy skins outright like Poe. the only pay to win I see in the game are the legendary pets. but to be honest if they make up 5 percent of your damage I would be surprised. so many people these days want everything for free and want the game to give them everything with out any effort.

[@stryder6361]

-9 damage taken is a base stat on the pact spirit wheel. so that dude is wrong

[@phynx-victumterra652]

I enjoyed the original torchlight once upon a time, I expected the latest torchlight to go down this route so i've been ignoring it and the company behind it

[@amperz1477]

There's a change of chance after the first legendary that gets higher after every roll if I remember correctly it goes up by 1.5 % after each roll then resets after a legendary roll . Yes the game has pay to win but this guy's just tossing numbers out . I got 3 classes to 75 on the last obt so I have to say unlike Diablo I didn't feel the need to get anything

[@03Edgar]

This aint gonna change until the videogame industry gets laws and restriction on predatory practices. Sucks cause phones are now so powerful to have great games on them.

[@Vampshroom420]

The biggest shame is that this game is actually fun and pretty solid for a mobile game. If only companies knew they could make quadruple the money by just making a good game that doesnt pester your wallet

[@GothPaoki]

That reminds me of Warhammer tacticus. They pretty much employed various Warhammer streamers to say good things about the game disregarding any p2w aspect.

[@adoringfan1226]

They really said let's kill the franchise for a quick buck. It's a shame because they had a good thing going with torchlight 2

[@SleepyFen]

@@Spellbook Runic Games made TL 1 & 2, (and a neat little game called Hob) but were subsequently dissolved by their publisher Perfect World in 2017. Torchlight 3 and infinite are different games by different studios wearing Torchlight's face.

[@voodoo_child1124]

I used to like torchlight. On a non monetary note, i dislike the combat. The older ones' combat was so satisfactory. How the mighty fall...

[@T-KEG]

Seems like the content creators would clearly have grounds for a class action lawsuit as they could claim damages to their brand. Seems like a pretty easy case if the timeline and intent are as obvious as stated. But it's going to take them stepping up, otherwise they will continue to be used like this and the companies will expect to keep getting away with it.

[@SleepyFen]

I'm not sure where the publisher did anything illegal. They gave correct information to the content creators at the time and now that information is outdated. Is it predatory and manipulative? Yes, but it would only legally qualify as false advertising if they continue to claim that these systems aren't in the game after they've been put in. The best thing that the content creators can do is delete those videos from their channels and make a statement about these malicious business practices.

[@ferinzz]

It will likely be pretty difficult to fight. Consider it a sampled product. They reviewed the product they were given and placed a 'free' disclaimer on it. The review for the specific SKU of the product of the product is valid. However, due to the change, they cannot be applied to the new version of the game. They would have to argue that the review was intended for the released version of the game, and that this misrepresentation of the product has harmed their brand. Then prove the loss monetarily. Not to mention the potential difficulty of holding the company accountable for the reviews, as the company is not hosting them or claiming that they represent the current version of the product. They may have specifically told the reviewers to state clearly that they are reviewing the Beta version, thus making even more distance between this version and release. At best, this is likely only a cautionary tale to be wary of making any claims from testing a closed beta. If a creator feels like this will impact their viewer's opinion of them, then best not make any statements on that version and provide a review after release.

[@OneMeanDragon]

It was imminently going to happen at some point, the parent company is attached to extreme Pay To Win tactics (Star Trek Online, (the only other game where you must pay for a top tier spacecraft)).

[@myentertainment55]

Infinite - it is how much money you can spend on it Immortal - it is how long you need to live to get all 5 star gems thorough free to play.

[@Real-Name..Maqavoy]

*Torchlight 1 & 2* is a blast. OG *Diablo 1 & 2* creators. Such wasted potential. I know they mentioned that they was gonna leave it after 2nd. *Runic games* (Developers) didn't made this, but... such a shame when other Companys do this kinda shit.

[@gachatookthekids]

I remember playing the first Torchlight back when I was in high school. I really liked it. What the hell happened to this franchise?

[@twistedscreen5019]

Modern day gaming happened.

[@theclown5763]

Hey, I know it's different from your usual content but would you mind reacting to CalebCity's video called "When you're the final boss of the game but the player is a speedrunner"? It's short but funny and with your experience I feel like it will be even better and more hilarious for you.

[@Mageblood]

No, sorry.

[@Lancer78x]

This was my first try at TLI recently and I spent 15 dollars to be able to test out all the characters, but besides that did not spend anything else. Finished all content in the game, max levels, uber bosses, crafted some insane gear and ended up with something like 500 Billion DPS and I never even used pactspirits.. I've seen people getting trillions of damage, but 500Billion is insane over kill. This game is very easy to clear all content, not sure why anyone would pay for help.

[@Sentientmad9m]

I was actually hoping after the Diablo immortal Shit show that torchlight infinite wouldn’t be so heavily monetized. Idk why I had faith that a mobile game wouldn’t be that way.

[@kaliek5281]

Torchlight fans to Runic games atm: "YOU WERE THE CHOSEN ONE! YOU WERE SUPPPOSED TO DESTROY THE BLIZZARD, NOT JOIN THEM!"

[@zenithmaiden2109]

Torchlight went downhill after Runic shuttered their doors. Other studios picked it up, didn't understand Torchlight's magic formula that made it different and homogenized it to mediocrity.

[@kaliek5281]

@@PerionTermia oh I know. But Torchlight was still their baby. They brought it into this world and when they closed, it was passed on. To become...this...

[@m0002856]

@@kaliek5281 It seems like it’s the inevitable cycle of games now… Game good made by passionate developers. Wow! Game development is expensive. Either become publicly traded and beholden to shareholders or sell your stuff and close. Then you get Diablo Immortal and Torchlight Infinite. Runic and Blizzard North are both probably weeping (especially since they shared some of the same people)

[@kaliek5281]

@@m0002856 Sadly. We shall see what becomes of D4. Based on the leak it actually may turn out okay, and assuming they ACTUALLY SUPPORT THE GAME FOR YEARS with meaningful updates I'm okay with a *cosmetics* shop. Its when support dries up that it becomes "alright....now why the fuck should we keep paying yall?"

[@paulshelkov7956]

I called this the moment in the tutorial where my character suddenly got god-mode showing off all these shiny particle effects. It immediately felt like they were trying to rope me in with a false and superficial sense of power and would not have much integrity in the way of rewards. Character power and the visuals that match it ideally reflect who you are as a player, no more and no less. Anything else is a lie. So from the beginning they were already willing to throw this out, banking on the idea that my character (not me) being powerful is going to lure me in. I was trying to give them the benefit of the doubt. Maybe they just wanted to give me something to look forward to, like when Ash sees Ho-Oh in the beginning of Pokemon. I'll admit there was more real challenge in the game from the beginning than I expected, but overall I'm not surprise it turned out this way. Also PSA to say I'm not upset about it and we don't need to take this as proof that the game industry is f'd and it's always like this and always will. It's working out.

[@AmateurHuman19]

RIP Runic Games. Thanks for all the good memories with TL1, TL2, and Hob. I'm so sorry they're massacring your boy like this. There's no defending this practice. If you do, you're encouraging game devs to hurt vulnerable people. You're part of why this happens, if it didn't make money they wouldn't do it.

[@JW-kb3vi]

Apple/Google are not blameless in this. I have worked in product dev for a decade and they have 'App Store Optimization' teams in every region consulting developers on how to maximize revenue through pricing and propositions. They take 30% of all in app purchases.

[@alecday3775]

This is EEERILY SIMILAR to how Cractivison (my pet name for Activision) snook lootboxes into BLOPS4 in with one of the updates (i cant remember which update it was off the top of my head) when they said that there were ZERO lootboxes being implemented and also with the Crash Team Racing remake where they said there were ZERO MTX PERIOD and they slipped them in AFTER all the reviews were out and the reviews were all positive. This is just slimy all around with this game being THE MOST EGREGIOUS EXAMPLE OF THIS BY FAR. Sneaking full on P2W MTX is just INSANE and I am sure there would be unwarranted hatred to the streamers who were asked to promote the game but I know IT WOULD NOT BE THEIR FAULT. I won't get nasty with them and I hope the hate isn't to the point of sending death threats cause that is THE ABSOLUTE LAST THING WE NEED OR WANT TO HAPPEN. So PLEASE DO NOT make it happen. I am DEAD serious about that.

[@justinparker7712]

I'm glad more games are doing this, accelerationism at its best. Genshin makes a lot of money being good and first and each clone after that will make less and less. I can't see Torchlight being successful at that money game being that Torchlight 3 was so unsuccessful doing far less of it.

[@d00mscyth3]

There is a ton of misinformation in this video. For example - at the 21 minute mark; the -9% damage taken node is a baseline trait and you can allocate it even without having a single pet of any rarity equipped. This is also true of the 4% loot node, and the 25% mana regeneration node which were both described as being provided by the pet when they are in fact baseline. There are many other misconceptions and misunderstandings throughout the video. The game is actually one of the most F2P friendly mobile games you're ever likely to see.. It sucks to see false information and misunderstandings skewing perceptions toward the negative.

[@guggelhupf]

they already changed alot of the Monetization after the last CB3. you can read on their last dev log. like hero traits are no longer hide behind the gatcha system, loot pet is ffa etc

[@realfudashi]

yeah the classic 5 steps forward 2 step back move... so some people happy with this crap..

[@ankthares6474]

@@realfudashi isnt it, in this case, 5 steps backward then 2 steps forward ?

[@Rawxpphey]

wow i trust them so much more now after they deceived so many people.. fuck torchlight

[@isaku1978]

@@ankthares6474 point of view, for the company is surely 5 steps forward "xd"

[@guggelhupf]

@@realfudashi CB is for collecting feedback. they got it and changed things because of it. idk whats your problem is

[@Beady2]

there has been changes now, they made it less things to pay for, added some things in free battle pass. But now Asmon and others made this video so damage is done everyone will know this game from bad side but not a single big streamer will update on new shop changes sadeg

[@RankenUp]

I made a shity cheap build and i hit 3mil and just turned lv80, the boon gacha is annoying but you also can make high damage builds without it tbh. Im using rares and 1 epic 😂

[@MySOAP12]

31:18 he just described blizzard.

[@norman20100]

true

[@trapgems2822]

There is no PvP and you can do all game content without using pets at all so the difference between someone who spend $10,000 on pets and a free player is really nothing. Guy spends $10k to kill the uber boss like 5 seconds faster than you wow good job. This game is nothing even close to Diablo Immortal. In Diablo Immortal if you don't spend money you just flat out lose. This game you can pretty easily beat all content as a free player.

[@styxzero1675]

I have no doubt that the content creators probably got bambozleed by the company. But is it anything stopping them from deleting those videos with blatant misinformation at this point? Maybe it is the fact that they would have to pay back the sponsor money if they did that and that is why they are keeping the videos up due to some contract. Nothing is stopping them from doing that tho. I think that is what many peoples have an issue with and yes it is still a matter of their integrity. They can fix this if they want to.

[@TheMthuber]

I loved the second torchlight so much and was looking forward for infinite, guess not anymore. I ll ditch all games with gatcha systems, greedy companies

[@Emilstekcor]

How are they making those claims? Is it not false advertising?

[@Kluaos]

Was just a matter of time up until more and more games would go with these models. The sad part is, we can't do shit about it. Even if u don't play/spent money, the whales will. At this point its 1% whales ruining the gaming industry for the other 99% of players. This will only get worse. RIP gaming...

[@MrBuns-yi2hk]

This game is actually really fun, so it is a shame that the pact system is so predatory. I don't think that it is necessary to progress, but it is incredibly frustrating to feel gated behind a pay wall out of power. Especially with heros and traits being pay gated.

[@dadeee7776]

The heroes and that suck but the gacha part of pets literally makes you miss out on nothing since if you have a top tier build you don’t need them anyway lol I just forget about the pets and play but I get the whole thing of the devs lying just another game dev doing the same thing can’t trust anyones word people should know this by now lol

[@MrBuns-yi2hk]

@@dadeee7776 the heros themselves suck or the traits or the traits being paygated sucks?

[@dadeee7776]

@@MrBuns-yi2hk the traits my bad the starting hero powers you get from what I’ve heard cause I played the old betas not the recent one they are great skills that still are VERY end game viable on most classes anyway

[@MrBuns-yi2hk]

@@dadeee7776 I was going to say that some of the hero traits are really strong lol.

[@reezekun2999]

Not fun no sense of progression because the appearances of armor should've been from armor not fking gacha pulls.

[@FadedAngelos]

Incase no one has mentioned this yet. The trait system is not going to be in gacha anymore. They listened to community feedback. They will either be obtainable in game through direct purchase or unlock through gameplay/in game currency.

[@VariantNYC]

wow who gives a shit

[@KyleRoller24]

not to mention "-9% extra damage taken" is like up there with the worst tool tip wordings of all time. Where is this extra damage coming from and why am I taking it? lol I know what it means its just written so terribly.

[@Innerdesert]

I can't feel bad for anyone falling for the lies, especially if you were 'excited' for the game, like are you kidding me? What idiot would be excited for some mobile torchlight shit? Torchlight 1 and 2 are where torchlight ended, anything else is a bunch of cash grabs and should never be played.

[@vorea]

17:29 they're the same because tencent publishes both games, they're slapping the same system on everything.

[@Marqnificent]

10 pulls is $15 USD 3x is $45 USD. Therefore to gurentee the legendary pet you need to spend at minimum $60USD as there is recharge option cheaper than $10 USD That in no way is acceptable.

[@Icarus811]

Lol it's funny how people keep saying this is p2w but I've played through this whole game and a bunch of end game and I haven't even spent a single dime. Yes I get it I can pay and get stronger but there is no reason to do so in anyway. This is nowhere near diablo in any way shape or form. The game is fun and u can enjoy it and not pay a dime if u chose not to. Ya screw them since they lied about the micro transaction but at least to me that don't take away the fun of the game and I won't pay them a dime since I don't need to.

[@uberhuber7903]

Ya I'm glad someone else said it too. Me and my brother play all the arpgs and this one has been pretty sweet, especially compared to diablo and lost ark. I'm late to the party so maybe I missed something. There are pay to win elements but I've had no reason to want to use them yet.

[@dahakere]

I played one phase of beta. When I got to the city and there were 1 000 000 different kinds of in-game currency dropped on me, it was clear where this game was going. It's a shame that neither Diablo nor Torchlight could break free from these practices, because gameplay-wise both games had huge potential. I tried both, bought the first season pass in Diablo and stopped playing it within a week. I don't even plan on starting with this one.

[@dadeee7776]

What beta did you play?

[@Oleanderthal]

@@dadeee7776 guaranteed they didnt, and this is a lie considering you dont get currencies thrown on you lol. theres like 1 paid currency, 1 free to play currency that serves the same purpose, and the other stuff you get are crafting/player auction house currencies.

[@dadeee7776]

@@Oleanderthal nah haha that’s what I was getting at the game has never had 1000000 game currencies games not bad in itself, it sucks theres a pet gacha but that’s like the only bad thing that’s actually somewhat predatory atm that’s not to say it may get worse down the track usually how mobile games do

[@jasonu3741]

I can't even blame these companies at this point when you SEE the money Diablo Immortal made its incredibly hard NOT to do it. Its like you can choose to make a game thats going to be around for 3-5 years make about 100 mil a year that you constantly have to make updates for and spend development time on OR Make a game with extreme P2W that wont last more than 6-8 months, make 1 major content patch and take home 800mil to 1 billion in that time period, then fold the tent and move onto the next hack project. It actually needs to be on the customers at this point to not purchase in these games and destroy the model, because 5 years of work for 500 mil vs 8 months for 1 billion is an impossible choice for a company not to make.

[@kiamventer4456]

A first buy on yhe 6480 one will yield 12960, which is the only time any bundle is divisible by 160(the conversion to pulls) and out of that, you get 81 pulls Out of those 81, the probability of getting no legendary is about 30%(assuming independence and binomial success and failure) Edit: the probability of getting one legendary is 64% so the probability of getting any more than one legendary is about 6-7% from 81 pulls Another edit: to have a greater than 99% chance of a single legendary, you need to pull 305 times

[@lazycatchphrase8148]

As far as launch comparisons go, it’s less Cyberpunk (which reviewers knew was dogshit from the start, especially console versions, but were under heavy NDA restrictions) and more Grand Tourismo (where the grind and monetization were adjusted after reviews were out).

[@MrVivi0001]

The problem is not one of those KZbinrs removed their videos, returned the money and informed their community they have been scammed into peddling bullshit to their audience.

[@rezzerk6689]

Lol, A diablo producer joined the torchlight team. It's only gonna get worse in terms of p2w

[@Danath121]

I had this wishlisted on steam, was looking forward to getting into after lazypeon's video. Goddammit

[@MortenPejterRoitmann]

It is so strange, that all these companies don't get, why Fortnite was and is so successful and make that much money, is because there is a battlepass that has zero pay too win.

[@DrGandW]

Infinite is a cursed subtitle, I have yet to see a franchise have a game with an Infinite subtitle do well Marvel vs Capcom Infinite Halo Infinite And now Torchlight Infinite It’s like getting punished for your hubris is naming the game Infinite instead of like, 3 or 4.

[@geoffreylincicome7298]

How in the fuck can games get away with a system that literally has "Pull" in it with a randomized reward system attached to it that costs you money and not get investigated for selling slot machine gambling to kids. I literally dont even understand this at all how this is even legal. It fucking says PULL right the fuck there, how is this anything other than a fucking slot machine.

[@evtimstefanov5441]

The hero traits you buy are essentially new heroes because the core mechanic changes completely - and..AAANNND these new traits are not more op in any way than the other traits

[@randominternetperson5806]

Ahh this so Genshin, especially Primocryst or should I say Primogem. The only difference here is in Genshin Primogems are the only Currency for pulls if I'm not mistaken (it's been years since I've last played mobile games)

[@randominternetperson5806]

I've stopped playing these types of games when I've come to a realization that these games are essentially a Vacuum that is designed to suck some cash and if they decide to discontinue the one you're playing, you'll be left with nothing. But of course before they discontinue the "service" they would announce a sequel or a new game that is essentially the same thing.

[@Vindominus]

I'd much rather pay 60-70 bucks than pay for a game where you have a "chance" to get something good. I'll pass on the gacha

[@yabu_renge7934]

XD is a Chinese dev. All Chinese mobile games have the same price system for in game currency.

[@javvahutgaming7715]

I played the closed beta and all this stuff was in there, now being a free2play player I thought it is going to be a good game to play. It's like POE for mobile

[@regecide_]

LOTRO did season track well. You progress through questing and dungeons/raiding and by using Runes which you get pretty much everywhere, and can buy with most in-game (and of course real life) currencies. FTP or not, easy to complete the track, and the rewards are the same for everyone

[@ursusgameing5433]

Only thing I don't understand is why is first option 0.99 most "profitable". For example zou buy it 5 times it costs 4.95 for 300+300, while you have option for 4.99 for 300+300

[@ferinzz]

I didn't go back to look, but it's likely a one-time purchase. It's there to get you initially invested, but also make it so that the prompt to spend money on the more expensive packs doesn't show up. There's a lot of psychological manipulation happening in these things. Not just with the pricing, but also to make sure you quickly remove the barriers that will prevent you from spending money. confirmation prompts, connecting payment methods, etc. A reason you get bombarded with popups is so that you get annoyed and spend money to no longer deal with them.

[@risingblur770]

remember the time when people complained about Overwatch lootboxes being too expenisve with being one dollar per box? Now I miss those times

[@SemiQuest]

BTW he did say early in the vid that the creators got blindsided by the devs. You mentioned that he didn't say it sooner as you reached the end of the vid small mistake but w/e just wanted to give him a bit more credit for his format for the vid. I do agree the title could have been just as interesting with less implication that the creators had an involvement in the deception of their audience. Around 1:30, he doesn't explicitly say "the devs tricked the content creators" but he did say that the creators were sponsored and made the statement the game was non-predatory prior to the patch that made the game predatory. I know it's a small thing but just wanted to make sure he got credit for being clear throughout the vid. Great vid though. Comment in response to Asmongold's statement at 34:45.

[@Realigigi]

Wow is right. When this was announced they said it would be free to play and all micro transactions would be for cosmetics and xp boosts

[@smokingbeard7796]

what makes me sad is that they would make a ton of money purely out of cosmetics and maybe this autopicker shit but no they just go straight for the throat of the gamers

[@Stamdemic]

I would have had so much god damn fun in diablo immortal if it didn't end up how it is.. like if the only paid stuff was cosmetic? I'd probably even buy stuff. It could have been so much better

[@that_niko]

I literally got told "It's not buying stats, it's buying pets" by an admin of the discord. Same guy told me i was poor for not playing the game. KEKW

[@DiablozStyx]

what horseshit. Its not even close. Its not even in the same solar system as diablo immortal.

[@Atrenu]

9:48 Is that the same sound effect from Tower of Fantasy when you pull a rare?

[@MrRainbowBunny]

It's crazy how the criteria for playing a game (atleast for me) has first and foremost become "How greedy are the developers/publishers" and gameplay second.

[@q9g781]

Its no Pay to win, Play and get your own experiense. This pets dont do That much to you all is playable With out pets. You also get free one

[@silverwolf251]

"Make a Game development company, and its only design is to make kids games, and they change it from making games to making a casino". Didn't you just describe Blizzard and EA.

[@antonsundin2974]

I just replayed torchlight 1 again a couple of months ago... It's a shame what happened to this IP, 1 and 2 are fantastic games.

[@laszloneumann500]

This game is also fantastic, the person making the video just made it for clout but he clearly lacked experience and understanding of the systems

[@SleepyFen]

@@laszloneumann500 anyone with eyes and half a brain cell can clearly see this game for what it is. Runic Games would've never put this shit in their game. This is a corporate, manipulative, money-grabbing mockery of their creative vision.

[@laszloneumann500]

@@SleepyFen so what you're saying is...you havent tried the game?

[@MRboss11]

10:20 he's basically describing what Counterside was when it first released on CBT and east Asian market, menu simulator

[@paulshelkov7956]

26:43 The non-P2W passes are way more okay than the P2W ones for obvious reasons. It's still not what we really want... the connection of cosmetics to player power achieved by real gameplay is an important gameplay element for a lot of people. The feeling of getting T4 shoulders on my warrior in original BC and standing on the AH like a boss wouldn't be possible with a cosmetic battle pass. Game developers deserve an equal exchange. I would rather just pay a subscription and have a game with integrity. But if I'm playing it for free, I'm not complaining.

[@LucVNO]

25$ for a ten pull. Seems like a normal rate to me, is a discount when compared to a premium game like Final Fantasy: Brave Exvius. The value of ingame currency has depreciated in FFBE over the 6 years of the game, but in the first year, a ten pull was worth 50$.

[@MADSLAYER47]

Tragic to see Torchlight go out like this. F

[@jackmcfetridge]

Been seeing a ton of ads for this game in the last few days nonstop saying ‘totally not p2w’ never would have played it but that is so bleh

[@malaf12]

This video is just bullshit. I played through the closed beta and I can guarantee that the game is not pay to win, mostly because there is no "win". You are not doing pvp and the endgame boss is accessible with every class as long as the build makes sense. There is NO need for legendary pets or alternate traits to complete everything the game has to offer right now. In general the game feels like a simplyfied PoE, but still keeps the buildcrafting aspect with a huge variety of viable builds.

[@LemonMan91]

I'm so fucking tired of getting hyped for shit and then having them pull this BS. I refuse to support or even play games containing any type of predatory monetization.

[@Oleanderthal]

just throwing it out there, ive been playing torchlight infinite since cbt3, and while there is of course a monetization model at play, the game is by no means "p2w" you get a minor convenience "autoloot" that picks up a few currencies for you, and you can use the gacha system for cosmetics and pets that give passives. the passives are by far the biggest p2w thing in the game, but you dont have to get the rare ones, you get a good amount for free just for playing, and they only just add to your characters passives, rather than completely breaking the way the game plays. you can absolutely not spend a dime on the game and complete everything in the game at the same speed as someone who whaled, and have just as much fun.

[@pg4829]

i fully agree, start playing it 3d ago and no clue what this crybaby is crying about O_o , i bet guy didnt even play the game to lvl 80+ but here we go, SHARING his wrong toughts