Worst Honeywell Steam Pressure Control EVER! A True POS

Honeywell no longer makes the L404A mercury control (thank goodness!), so while this may seem like I am committing grievous battery upon a decreased equine, there are still a lot of these nasty controls out there that Honeywell managed to foist upon the unsuspecting stean-using public that are still overpressuring steam heating systems even now as you are watching this video.
If you are unfortunate enough to still have one of these lousy controls on your steam heating boiler, replace it as soon as possible!

[@richardpoelma9773]

Gordon !! Nice videos , I going through my neglected two pipe steam vapor system. Has just one high pressure cut off . What models would you recommend for a vaporstat and a manual reset secondary ? This is and old system piped in 1911, with a Smith boiler dated 2003, doing good. My pigtail was totally clogged , gauge stuck as well clogged , thanks Gordon , keep the videos coming 😊👍

[@gordonschweizer5154]

Your are most welcome. As for Vaporstats, the current model is the L408J-1009 series 0 to 16 oz. The other Vaporstat is the L408J 1017 0 to 4 psi. Easy to mix them up. The manual reset type is the L4079B. I'd put them on separate pigtails with their own pressure gauges.

[@petergriffin1546]

another great video from a pro...thanks for sharing. What your showing us on the vaporstat is that a setting you would be happy with on a steam residential boiler with a vaporstat? Over the years I have seen so many technicians crank my pressuretrol/steam boiler to 2.5 or 3 psi... Now I got a clear understanding what the term knucklehead means in the Dans book.

[@gordonschweizer5154]

Thank you for your comments! In general, a single pipe steam should not need more than two psi at the boiler ever. The pressure is only used to push the air out. Once the air is out of the pipes and radiators, any more pressure is wasted energy. It's not the pressure that heats the building, as you know, it's the hidden heat in the steam itself.

[@jeromecade5140]

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[@daltondominic2377]

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[@jeromecade5140]

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[@davidlampe4153]

Thanks Gordon, I have one of those controls on my boiler I’m going to check the model out now but what’s the replacement for it? Plain Jane pressuretrol or a similar one without mercury from Honeywell?

[@gordonschweizer5154]

Yes, the 'plain jane" PA404A is just fine for a single pipe steam system. If you get a new one, keep the receipt. If you can't get it to work below 2 psi out of the box, take it back! Let the folks who you buy it from know what you expect.

[@stormbytes]

Have an L404A and it has worked fine for over 16 years. Lately started giving me trouble. I think the diaphragm has failed. Seems to be up in the open-circuit position and pin wont' go back down.

[@gordonschweizer5154]

Is the pigtail clear?

[@ATeamAdam]

Where do you get that squeeze hand pump?

[@gordonschweizer5154]

I got that through M&M Controls. It's sold there for testing pneumatic controls. It's also available searched for as a "blood pressure squeeze bulb"

[@ATeamAdam]

What is your opinion of the honeywell vaporstat?

[@gordonschweizer5154]

That depends on which model. The older mercury units tended to work well down to about 8 oz. Below that setting, they became less reliable. The really really old style could go down to 2 oz. High quality! The newer non-mercury ones started out as crap, had all kinds of failures, many right out of the box, others took six months to show up. They are better now, Honeywell seems to have gotten their act together for now. All the same, test, or it's just a guess. Don't trust Honewell to do it right...test it before you install it, preferably right at the supply house before you sign for it.

[@amradco]

Gordon, I have been having trouble with the new vaporstats too.

[@elgordo271]

This L404A shown above sorta looks like a nice vaporstat, but it was a cheat. At least Honeywell junked the thing by and by. The diaphragm was way too small to ever work even at 2 psi. Fail. The new vaporstats, the true 16 oz/in2 type, as you justly say, are a crap shoot, arn't they? I show up at the supply house with this tester when I buy them, and I will reject the damn thing right then and there if it doesn't pass muster. Even so, the newly tested ones 6-14 months later fail and my customer calls saying their system is going crazy. Does that sound like the problems you're having?

[@amradco]

That is exactly correct. I have found that using a manual reset secondary pressure control will signal when the vaporstat fails.

[@elgordo271]

Good on ya! We don't do that often enough on small residential installs. Commercial installs (or anything above 400,000 BTU/hr for that matter), manual reset secondary controls are required, as I have no doubt you already know. I have a theory, and it is just that, that the diaphragms on these new vaporstats are leaking slightly, oh so slightly. As the pressure builds, the water in the pigtail is pushed into the diaphragm as the air leaks out through the bad stainless steel seam weld. The diaphragm fills with water, rusty water, and distends and puckers the thing and blows out the already indifferent calibration. I took one that failed apart and I found a LOT of water in the diaphragm. I cleared it and re-calibrated it just to see if I could. I could, but. what. a. pain. It sits on bench, mocking me.

[@paulkennedy5822]

That’s funny

[@FirstLutheranAlbany]

Gordon, what a shame ! This is the exact model we have on our boilers, which were set to 7 PSI main and 3 diff, along with L404C 1147 manual reset at 12PSI and L91A 1037 modulating control set at 5 PSI. Would you keep the modulating control we have ? What would it be best to set it to ?

[@gordonschweizer5154]

You might try replacing your operation control with a bog standard PA404A pressuretrol. Then, you can turn down your manual reset limit control to 5psi. The modulating control should be set as low as it can go. If the modulating control doesn't go low enough (1/2 psi), give us a call. We have some in oz/in2.

[@FirstLutheranAlbany]

@@gordonschweizer5154 We will be in touch about that modulating control ! Is there any pressuretrol that tops out at about 3-5 PSI that you would consider accurate enough to be worthy enough of using on a vapor system ? Tonight while in the boiler room I had the thought that being able to build that level of pressure is useful for cleaning out strainers that have not been emptied out since the 60's. Do you think there is any merit to this line of thought ?

[@gordonschweizer5154]

@@FirstLutheranAlbany Honeywell makes (or did!) a pressure control for lower pressures. They called them "Vaporstats". They are more expensive and they sometimes have quality control issues. Vaporstats come in two basic pressure ranges. The model that might benefit you is the zero to 4psi range. (The other one is zero to 16oz/in - too low, I think.) That way, no one can jack up the pressure above 4 psi

[@FirstLutheranAlbany]

@@gordonschweizer5154 Thank you very much for this information. I am going to see what 4PSI vaporstats are available. I believe the system we have is Hoffman Equipped Vapor. All of the radiator traps that are in the original part of the building are Hoffman No. 8's and all of the hand valves that have never been replaced (There are a few in the basement that appear to be original) appear to be Hoffman No. 7's.

[@gordonschweizer5154]

@@FirstLutheranAlbany Oh, ok then. I might change my recommendation to a zero to 16 oz/in2 Vaporstat. Hoffman Differential Loops were designed to generally "trigger" at about 12 to 14 oz/in2 steam pressure. You don't want them triggered nowadays. That will send steam into the dry return. The idea in the past was to make sure the water didn't stack up in the pipes at too high a pressure when operating a coal fired boiler, making sure the boiler didn't dry fire. So, consider a 16oz Vaporstat.

[@VeritySkiff]

I have the PA404A 1009. I tried to set it to go on at 1/2 psig and off at 1.5 psig. Even with the adjusting screw backed off and the differential dial at 1, it comes on at about 1.5 and goes off at 5 psig. (I had to put on a larger range gauge to check it.) Is there anything I can do to fix this? Which model of Vaporstat is the best one to use for this range? Would that be the L408J-1009? I just don't want any headaches.

[@gordonschweizer5154]

I'm sorry you got a bum pressuretrol. Is it new? You might be able to return it? If you have a single pipe steam system, even a 4 lb Vaporstat is a bit too much of an expense for what you get. You might try your luck with getting a new PA404 pressuretrol. If it doesn't cycle within the correct pressure settings, let me know.

[@VeritySkiff]

@@gordonschweizer5154 Thanks for the reply. The pressuretrol is about 7 years old and as far as I know no one had noticed a problem. As long as the house doesn't get cold, the system doesn't run long enough to raise the pressure above fractions of a psi. The plan is to leave things as they are for the winter. I don't want to go away for a few days and come home to frozen pipes. I know things work now so I won't mess with it until the spring. I am going to install a vaporstat and put it in series with the pressuretrol. The pressuretrol cutting off at 5 psig will act as a backup if the vaporstat fails and cut the burner before the relief valve lifts. It is just a series circuit with the thermostat. I don't want to roll the dice on another pressuretrol. I would rather spend 200 bucks and then not have to worry. I saw one vaporstat with capacity of 0 - 16 oz and the other 0 -4 psig. Which unit is the prefered one? There has got to be a reliable / repeatable controller for the 0.5 to 1.5 psig range out there.

[@gordonschweizer5154]

@@VeritySkiff If you have single pipe steam, the 0-4 psi Vaporstat should be fine. If you use the pressuretrol as back up, try to put it on a separate pigtail.

[@VeritySkiff]

@@gordonschweizer5154 Now with the holidays over, I had more time to play. I took a closer look at the Pressuretrol unit and did some tweaking. I know that you are a pro and can't tell me if I am interpreting the inner workings of the unit correctly, so I don't expect that for an answer. Hooke's Law tells us that Spring Force = k (spring constant) x Distance. There is an adjustment set screw above the diaphragm with some anti tamper schmutz on it. On the end of the "seesaw" opposite where the spring connects there is a small "tang" that contacts the button on the micro switch. I bent that upwards slightly with needle nose pliers. I then turned the adjusting screw to apply slightly more tension on the spring. Now, the diaphragm needs to move less distance (with less force) to contact the button on the micro switch. I now have the boiler shutting off at 34 oz/square inch (slightly more than 2 psig) and lighting off at 4 oz/square inch (about a quarter of a psig). The differential wheel on the switch is at 1. It can't be rotated any lower. The current actual differential is almost 2 psi. So the issue now is what is inside that microswitch. I need to open that up if possible and see exactly how that knob changes the point at which the switch opens or closes. I think I am on the right track. I am moving cautiously since I don't feel like disabling the heating system in the middle of winter. The good news is is that the system only cycles on and off based on the thermostat. The house gets warm before the boiler builds pressure. I have to turn the heat off in the house for 3 hours or so in order to get the boiler to run long enough to cycle on and off on pressure.

[@gordonschweizer5154]

@@VeritySkiff You nailed it. Put your hands in your pockets and enjoy the warmth 😀. The adjesting wheel/and switch are a sealed unit inside a very brittle phenolic resin plastic case.

[@chrischurch4558]

What do you use instead?

[@elgordo271]

For pressures over one psi, I'll use the good ol' PA404A "The grey box" from moneywell. It usually gets the job done (but not always!)

[@paulwizeman764]

How does a Honeywell L404B1304 Pressuretrol Controller, 2-15 psi, work?

[@paulwizeman764]

Meaning is it a better pressure controller

[@gordonschweizer5154]

The L404B1304 pressure controller is decidedly "meh". It works ok, most of the time. But, unless that control already comes new with the boiler, I'd rather use the PA404-A pressuretrol. It doesn't pretend or "put on airs" that it's a great control with that fancy clear plastic cover and what-not. It's cheaper, too, I think.

[@paulwizeman764]

Thank you!

[@paulwizeman764]

I have a follow up question. I currently have a Honeywell 404a on my steam system. And it turns off at 5 psi and then restarts at 3 1/2 psi. It’s set for 1/2 psi with a 1 psi differential. Is it broken or can it be fixed? Tx

[@gordonschweizer5154]

@@paulwizeman764 It can, sort of, but it is not condoned by the factory. Is the control less a year old?

[@chrischurch4558]

Do you check these like this during maintenance? Oooo wonder if my fieldpiece manometer can work on this for a pump. Hehehe

[@elgordo271]

I'll usually check them on boilers that are having "issues" (water hammer, water level control problems, overheating, vents failing, etc). I'll check the pigtail for blockages first, however. That in and of itself eliminates many the pressure and shut-down issues on steam boilers.