WotC Give The Middle Finger to Judges

[@righteousraikou3973]

Also to give a bit more information on the promos, we dont even get them automatically, we have to attend conferences to get these. And esp with how they are reducing the amount of conferences each region gets, its becomes even more difficult to get these promos (they kinda got rid of online conferances for certain regions). So theres sometimes we dont even get promos as all. Where as before JA, the promos were shipped directly to your door

[@PleasantKenobi]

I should have made this more clear, and I think i brushed over the parts I had written on this. Will pin you comment. I mentioned how these aren't payment for tournaments - these require you to attend the conferences. I am really annoyed at myself for skipping by and omitting that.

[@PaullyDM]

@@PleasantKenobi This part in particular sucks for me as I can't attend online conferences and work at the same time. :/

[@erfarkrasnobay]

When they asked for $100 I give them those money, when they asked also to attend at conferences that regional and have 0 deal with judging at local level, I left programm. I become judge to help my local community understand rules and play few magic games at FNMs, no to be milk-cow for greedy corp and JA as that corp proxy. Guess what, players doesn't care is I official L1, rule advisor or just guy who know some shit.

[@utsuhoreiuji6155]

IIRC, it has a yearly upkeep cost and you need referral (aka endorsement from another local judge) to become a MTG judge. Even Konami doesn't have that much hassel, you just need 2 online test (Policy and Rule) to become one, and it doesnt need yearly upkeep. it's doorkeeping at its best; I have managed to be a floor judge at 3 konami regional with my piss-poor competitive experience (albeit with comprehension of game rules), but I cannot find consistent source to be a MTG judge (I know judge academy exist, but that site has been passing off "unofficial" vibe to me and it has not changed.) Even WOTC themselves does not have a page like "interested in Become a judge? Click here " while you can literally google for the page "konami judge" and the first thing you have is the page you'll need.

[@fargnbastage]

Boo hoo. Grow a pair and stop giving your time for free....or for cheap squares of cardboard that WoTC will always reprint into the ground.

[@ecpracticesquad4674]

Judge promos have gone from foil Cradle and Force of Will to basic lands… 😂😂😂

[@Insane_Kane]

We can still go lower ! Foil Tokens ? Foil Checklist Cards ? Foil Goldbordered Basic Lands ?

[@CoNteMpTone]

@@Insane_Kanehow about non foil emblems?

[@relicdad88]

@@Insane_Kane what bout foil proxys huh huh jesus Christ wizards come on jus sad feel sry 4 the guys dat have 2 put up with all dis now 4 nothing basically

[@WeScreamAtWalls]

As a formally deeply involved magic player, it kind of helps me appreciate what flesh and blood has been doing for judge support so much more.

[@ladiesman2048]

Maybe LSS has its own court case coming up...

[@TheTacticalBat]

Flesh and Blood is really dunking on MTG in many respects. Recyclable paper booster packs, judge support, organized play support, and all while only charging a couple of bucks for a booster pack. MTG is a joke at this point.

[@eeneranna9795]

@TheTacticalBat I wouldn't even really say dunking. They're just doing what WotC should've already been doing. It is funny seeing a nee MtG controversy and then LSS proactively making sure that doesn't happen with FaB.

[@coreybeach1807]

Yah, dunking......

[@ultimatekiller4264]

Fab for life ❤

[@Daybed4448]

Judges should just be paid properly. How much money does Hasbro have again....?

[@Playingwithproxies]

Billion

[@W4llh4k]

less than what they are happy with

[@ashadeofnight]

Yes but they'd give it all up for just a little more

[@kazibaker6747]

I don't comment very much. I will preface this with I am both a judge and competitive player, and I'm more or less fine with these promos, though I will say I really wish we got five in a packet. But specifically in pertinence to this comment, Hasbro is f****** broke. I believe between dividends, debt repayments, and losses, WOTC generates more than 50% of Hasbro's total profit alone while they actively lose money on a bunch of toy and entertainment brands (except Peppa Pig which is specifically called out in this article im parsing)

[@ericjohnson6105]

Billion dollar company cries poverty.

[@WallsEryx]

I used to be a judge some time ago. WotC has been giving judges the middle finger for a very long time, it just hasn't been discussed much. I remember one promo batch having fucking Commander's Sphere in it and I'm still angry about it.

[@FoxyBard]

I was an L1 judge for years, until they wanted to charge me for it. The local stores in my area wouldn't ever really compensate for anything below Comp REL stuff. If I judged an FNM, it was a really good result to get a single pack as compensation. To get promos, you had to be higher level or judge at a GP or PTQ or other higher level events, which I never got around to doing. I just judged around my town at a couple of LGSes. I have not engaged with the judge program since they asked me to pay them money for the privilege of my labor.

[@WallsEryx]

If I remember correctly, when JA came out the subscription was $100 for Level 1 judges, $200 for L2 and $400 L3. You paid more for the "privilege" of getting more work. Edit: Incidentally, you are correct about basic land promos being reasonable some 10 years ago, because that actually happened; but even then, it was given away to celebrate some milestone of the judge community. It wasn't the usual promo batch.

[@tyleradams6817]

To be fair, with those tiers of payment you also got more promos, in quarterly mailings. Now they have cut the cost but no more mailings. You have to go to conferences to get the promos. Which really fucked over the remote judges since they're no longer supporting online conferences.

[@TehFoamy]

Take this with a grain of salt, but I heard murmurings back in the day that the 2014 judge basics were printed as part of a settlement between WotC and a judge or group of judges. I can’t share my source, but I can say that they were reputable

[@WallsEryx]

@@TehFoamy To be honest, the whole JA thing is also hella dodgy. I was in the conference where they first announced it and they mentioned not being able to manage judges through a non-profit (Judge Academy is a for-profit company) in a very hand-wavy way. Something along the lines of "Eh, it's against WotC's company policy, so hands are tied." It was really bizarre.

[@BatCaveOz]

100% Agree that playable cards should be made affordable and fancy, specialty cards should be made expensive and collectable.

[@joeldykman7591]

Isn't that idea what current standard releases are? I mean, given any rare in a set there's often a standard, extended art, alt art, and the foil versions of those. The sheer amount of versions in a standard released set deflates prices a ton.

[@MaleusMaleficarum]

​@@joeldykman7591theoretically... sure. But, then you get into "weird" circumstances (totally not planned) where a given card at a given rarity is a LOT less available than other cards at that rarity.

[@Enja_Near]

​@@joeldykman7591Sheoldred, the Apocalypse and Elesh Norn, Mother of Machines have entered the chat.

[@D-Boy22]

@@joeldykman7591 Poor child, he doesn't know

[@NotSoGentleJester]

Three years ago, I led three groups into the world of Magic: The Gathering, and we had a blast. I taught and assisted about 30 people, organized events, and even considered becoming a judge. However, WotC's focus on profit over community dismayed me. This led us to resort to card proxying due to exorbitant prices of sets and important play pieces. Three years later, I'm still passionate about Magic, though I never became a judge. It's clear WotC prioritizes money, not its players. Despite this, I still hold dear the original game envisioned by Richard Garfield. My hope lingers: connecting with fellow enthusiasts for enjoyable matches around a table or online. Ty PK for your bold honesty and calling out bad behaviour!

[@RafitoOoO]

The issue is they could earn much more money by making the game more affordable and increasing its reach.

[@aduinoch]

Also, us Judges weren't even told what the promos would be til mid August. That is a month and a half of no/little communication from WotC while conferences were still ongoing. Typically, we would receive the promos in person at in person conferences, which some of us have to drive a couple hours to get to to attend (at least in the states)

[@EdwinRosario432]

I mean, that should of been the first red flag. Idk about you, but if I had good compensation packages, it would be an upfront selling point. Seems like they tried to hide it if you ask me

[@ViewtifulJoe8463]

Thanks for speaking out and advocating for us judges. I wish it was worth it to even judge big events anymore.

[@xZipkan]

So are you only judging because you are in it for the promos and not because you love magic and want to foster a better community? Really hard to come off as sincere when saying if something is worth it or not in terms of a volunteer position. I'm of the opinion if someone is only in judging for the promos then they probably are in it for the wrong reasons. No hate from this as its hard to convey over text.

[@jonasl9068]

@@xZipkandont pay people 👍

[@kyojitakenouchi9706]

I haven't been in the program for about 5 years now and I rarely worked an event that let me recieve promos, but something that always irked me was when the art of a judge promo was used in a reprint.

[@matthewbarsody]

Them reusing the art for Sterling Grove was straight up a giant "Fuck you!" to judges. And then also changing it from bi-yearly mailers to must go to conferences, and then dropping support for remote conferences is why I stopped judging. Not to mention the less than stellar promos they did have. This lands situation is just straight up greed lead stupidity.

[@chrish7830]

A gigantic pet peeve of mine too. If Wizards wants to reprint the hell out of something, that’s their right. I’m not a big fan of price of cards being a significant gatekeeper to people. But FFS, at least protect the art for judges, so that it’s something special for the work they do.

[@terrencecheung7019]

I'm a former L2. And just like you I was mad when I saw the judge promo art used in commander precon. I think the first one was Terese Nielsen's Hanna, Ship's Navigator. I know some cards reuse old art, but for the new art commissioned for judge promos, WotC should at least have the decency in making them a little exclusive to make judges feel special.

[@marcushart4445]

Spoke with my buddy who’s a judge, said he isn’t gonna renew this year. What a slap in the face these promos are

[@VivBrodock]

the lands would have been good *in addition* to a normal judge promo, could have been like a whole thing going forward, you always get the basic lands and the normal judge foil.

[@aduinoch]

As the person on twitter who asked you to make this video... Thank You

[@haydonali4169]

As a pillar of the community they deserve so much better. I think the promo version of snapcaster mage is arguably the best example; playable, relatively powerful, iconic, and the sickest art imaginable

[@Singe0255]

the 2014 Judge Foil Full Art Basic Lands pack that was mailed to me was special because we hadn't seen full art lands since Zendikar, a couple years prior, and these were the first promos with that treatment. They also were produced with a social contract: one pack per judge in the world, period. Even now the packs are over $500 for one of each land. Fast forward to 2023 - This time, there is nothing special. We've had a thousand full arts, coming from every kind of source from draft, set, collector, secret lair. Shoot, we got full arts of planets in space and optimus prime driving on cybertron. There's no value left in full art basics, they've been done and printed into oblivion. Was special once, now it's an insult.

[@nathanmarcinek2073]

It's like if you've reliably been getting a Christmas bonus each year, but then suddenly find out this year it's been replaced by a subscription to the Jelly-of-the-Month Club.

[@EdwinRosario432]

I mean, some years you got left over Halloween candy by your analogy. Some of these judge promos were doo doo

[@chrish7830]

At least jelly of the month is the gift that give all year long.

[@josephhawkins7974]

If they gave 20 of each of these to the judges so they could potentially update all the basic lands in a deck to the same type that would actually be kinda cool. Single copies of these? Terrible.

[@malakimphoros2164]

A panorama set of 4 would be cool too. I like panoramas.

[@wesleywyndam-pryce5305]

​@@malakimphoros2164 but there are 5 types

[@jevonp]

@@wesleywyndam-pryce5305yeah he mean 4 card panorama of all 5 land types

[@PotatoGuidanceMissle]

I actually watch MtG content way more than play nowadays. Channels like Vince’s keep me out of playing magic nowadays, and I’m glad I can still support my favorite content creators without supporting such a greedy company.

[@kristiandahl1310]

Always buy singles support your lgs don't have to quit the game.

[@PotatoGuidanceMissle]

@@kristiandahl1310 just can’t keep up with all the product, perpetual hype train killed all my interest in the game. Nothing on the LGS, and I understand where you’re coming from. I just support my LGS with tabletop games from here on out.

[@aztratcg]

Appreciate you bringing this up mate. I’m subbed to JA but not made a conference this year and won’t be able to do the main UK one next month either which means I’ve spent money for literally nothing. I’m known enough in the community as a historic L2 that people won’t care if I have JA or not.

[@pokecool2257]

Every ridiculous stunt like this makes me want to sell out and quit the game so much more. It just sucks knowing the company only cares about its bottom dollar now

[@W4llh4k]

don't sell out, you'll send someone else the rabit hole, do as I plan, and assemble boardgames with magic mechanins, and leave it as a family night game.

[@DJMcCoo1io]

​@@W4llh4kdandan is the only way to ethically play magic

[@Justnothankyou132]

"Wahh, WOTC is ruining the game. I'm going to quit anytime now" -magic players for the past 30 years

[@griffithsmuse4899]

They are quitting, the playerbase is just so massive that WotC doesn't care. My playgroup is less than half the size it used to me, but you enjoy your Secret Lair: Fall Out, and Bluey all with unique mechanics that will end up being Legacy staples and I'm sure WotC will be happy to give you a nice playset of basic lands for all the brown-nosing you're doing. @@Justnothankyou132

[@sweetandsaltyminx7310]

​@@Justnothankyou132I did quit though. Sold most of my expensive cards, got into other hobbies. My money has been better spent elsewhere.

[@andrewpayseur]

Good video, Vince! Damn the music in this was tripping me out. There's a tone in the background music that sounds like a phone vibrating and I kept picking up my phone and looking at it like, "wtf?" until I figured it out lol

[@ОлегТрундаев]

Finally, Judgea get something good. Remember the time when Judges used to get some useless cards like Gaeas Craedle or Wheel of Fortune? Not a fact that you’ll need them in your decks. But with a basic lands as a promo you are receiving the most wanted and most playable cards, that everyone uses in every format from limited till even Vintage. Thank you Wotc, you’re doing great as always

[@crystalheath6510]

The same thing happened to their D&D organized play. It used to have great promos and things for DMs that would run their living campaigns that would be shipped to your door but now.... nothing. I was a judge back when you would get your promos mailed to you and there was no fee to maintain your credentials. I worked really hard to get my L1 and I enjoyed judging and event organizing. But it is work and it does feel like judges now are not being properly appreciated.

[@JudgeCanada]

I will be judging about 12 events this year, and still dont get access to judge promos. There have been a few conferences pitched in my area that have been denied as well.

[@derafrax5048]

The idea of Single printing Foils reminds me of the Flesh and Blood reprint policy, which is great in comparison to this.

[@wesleywyndam-pryce5305]

they have a garbage reprint policy. reprinting into the ground is good.

[@Sillimant_]

@@wesleywyndam-pryce5305agreed, cards should always be affordable. Otherwise printer go brrrrrrrr

[@Galaxy-ys5nx]

@@wesleywyndam-pryce5305 The fab reprint policy is pretty widely misunderstood. They DO reprint into the ground. Just not the premium foil treatments. A cold foil crown of providence (competitive staple for many decks, you need one copy) is $350-400 and that card will never be reprinted as a cold foil. But a nonfoil one was just reprinted in the latest set and it's only $50. Cold foil Mask of Momentum (notable card from alpha print) is $2000. A nonfoil copy? $50.

[@robertchavarria4166]

I haven't gotten promos since 2020. They have conference online but getting in is much harder than it needs to be, also physical conferences are not available in my area.

[@PleasantKenobi]

I'm sorry, this sucks. :(

[@xXMrMegaXx]

I was a judge for about 10 years, one that certified other judges, attended as participant and presenter at many conferences, and assisted in all levels of events. I put a ton of effort into educating myself on the rules and procedures, as well as prepare for each and every tournament I was judging at. I quit when the judge program started to transform into some sort of meritocracy, as well as the compensations were getting worse and scarcer. That was a lot of years ago, but now I see that it's getting worse and worse and I'm happy that I quit when I did. Now, I didn't know it got to the point of having to pay a membership to... work? are they nuts? it blows my mind... slavery comes to mind...

[@johnpaddyyy]

The non foil reprints are something that flesh and blood has adopted, even with legendary cards etc.

[@PaullyDM]

As a judge for a local town I don't even get any promos because due to my work schedule I work Weekends and that's when all the online conferences are. :/

[@underscore_5450]

Not to be a conspiracy theorist, but it feels possible that this was a strategic move to protect reprint equity and slowly phase out tournaments by claiming there's not enough judges.

[@j_g_t6091]

I mean... most of WotC's recent decisions seem like a way for Hasbro to wring the last bit of money out of their coffers before shutting down. After some of the quarterly reports in the last few years have shown, Hasbro is becoming a Has-been

[@maxbryant560]

lol they straight up canceled the pro tour that isnt a conspiracy they could care less about competitive play just want to sell stupid stuff to the whale commander players, whale as in big spenders not their size to clarify

[@judaspriestchild]

​@@maxbryant560no you are too nice 😂

[@tcsmagicbox]

Wait until there's a dispute at a big tournament with money on the line, and there are no judges.

[@maxbryant560]

@@tcsmagicbox you can look up the ruling on your phone lol

[@d4nrar]

"How about land? Everyone loves land right?"

[@Duskraven377]

Thanks for putting a spotlight on this important issue

[@Justnothankyou132]

"Important" 🤔🤔🤔

[@skatebear7451]

"who cares about judges when people play commander? Sort out the interactions with you friends" that's wotc's answer

[@EdwinRosario432]

Well before you and your friend come to fists before apologies, judges are important to lay the rules down as they rightfully are. I don't understand why you would volunteer though if you want compensation.

[@TiltedSquare]

​@@EdwinRosario432because people love the game and want to help out. Volunteering and being treated like a person and knowing the entity you're volunteering for is grateful vs being kicked in the skins and them getting stomped on for volunteering are different.

[@EdwinRosario432]

@@TiltedSquare I understand that, but then DO NOT volunteer. That's like you needing a kidney and someone says they'll donate one. Then immediately after the surgery they demand compensation. Just say you want to get paid from the get go.

[@Lukaz2009]

​@@EdwinRosario432That is really what I don't get here. It may just be my giving nature, but when you volunteer to do something then you shouldn't be seeking compensation for said volunteer work. Receiving compensation is a nice gesture, but shouldn't be the driving force for volunteering. And I think part of the problem is that a lot of judges that are saying that they aren't renewing their contracts over these basic land promos didn't have as much passion for the game than they think they do. That and they have been spoiled with highly sought-after reprints for so long that they now feel entitled to getting high-value reprints and nothing else. There have been stinker judge promos before, but overall judge promos are highly sought after. Do they deserve better than singleton copies of basic lands? Absolutely. Should at least be ten copies of each so you can actually bring out a deck with them. But at the end of the day, I think that many outraged judges are missing the point of their position as judges. Should be judging for the passion of the game, not what you can get monetarily for being a judge. (And even then judges should be demanding financial compensation for judging events instead of banking on promos)

[@cursive3807]

In an alternate reality, Secret Lair doesn't exist and those cards are judge promos were tournament magic flourishes.

[@EdwinRosario432]

Yeah. And unicorns and dragons are best friends...

[@mrskittles6486]

Judge academy blows. Making judges pay to be Judges single handy killed off most of the judges in my local area and took away the good ones as well

[@trowawayacc]

I stoped buying magic almost a year ago. But i still enjoy this lovely rants about the game i used to love.

[@stankmongerjones]

Major respect to the judges. they PAY FOR THE PRIVILEGE to regulate and run official tournaments. a month ago i went to a LOTR drat and we didn't have enough people to play in the draft, so the judge joined too, while still keeping up his responsibilities as judge. and that was a small event at an LGS. even as someone who eventually wants to become a judge out of sheer love for the game and its mechanics, i cannot imagine the toll that being on staff for a convention center level mtg event takes. they deserve fair compensation for their time, even if it is just cards that they can flip for cash. this kind of effort needs to be a two-way street or we'll soon run out of people to run events. Let's hope changes are made soon to keep MtG from becoming any more of a Monopoly clone than it's already become under Hasbro rule. Thank you for being a loud and angry voice against the bad shit that the head honchos in charge of steering the boat are doing, for the sake of both the players and, in this case, the people who regulate play

[@WIBYTIEDH]

I was so proud of my judge foil doubling season back in the day, and now all the reprints have just shot its value into the dirt

[@alicealysia]

WotC: *shoots judges, pro tournaments, and the games balance* *turns to the camera* "Who killed standard?"

[@MCTimemaster]

as a former L1 judge who mostly just judged pre-releases to help make up judge numbers my compensation from the store was usually free entry to another pre-release event. worked pretty well for me. i'd Judge on the Saturday and then play that evening or on Sunday. pick up a few promo's from time to time. happy days. had to stop once it became paid membership because unless I wanted to massively up the amount of judging I was doing it just wasn't worth it. as far as I know, lot of 'casual' judges dropped out at the same time for the same reason.

[@TangleTrail]

Worth noting that when JA first spun up, you paid a fee and were given promos mailed to you directly every quarter, with bonus cards for attending and hosting conferences. Then Covid happened, and they made all the promos tied to attending conferences and dropped the quarterly support, but there were plenty of online conferences. Then in 2023 WotC started to restrict the number of conferences they would approve, and made it almost exclusively in-person. This feels like one more step in a very deliberate shift to keep pushing MtG out of the physical space and make it a digital first product. Considering what we've heard about the leadership in the D&D space, I would bet that WotC upper management sees the physical side of things as an obstacle and a cost that they would love to kill if they could.

[@JohnSmith-he5ip]

I like judge cards. I bought a few. I think there needs to be more compensation to judges. Even if its more free product. Packs or a collecter box or something.

[@jordoncox9601]

All Draft boxes regardless if it’s a master set or not- $100 a box with nothing special in it including foils All other pack products - It doesn’t matter what price WotC wants to make them, but all of these products have the special cards in them.

[@jdonvance]

THERE'S the idea. Don't give them one Foil land, give them 100 Foil lands (20 of each). Has anyone out there ever tried to get two dozen of the same foil and/or full-art basic land? Time and money intensive because not enough places care to keep track.

[@mk177]

Exactly dont give them 5 basic lands FFS

[@EPICLYFATALERROR]

WotC’s ability to take a crap on people for no effort never fails event though they could show love and appreciation for no effort.

[@bryanprillaman1857]

“Judges are the backbone of events” - yes. Realistically we need more players/influencers raging about this. Wotc doesn’t care about judge complaints cause we just soldier on regardless, it’s not enough of us. We need player and TO complaints. When you look at the attention (and results!) that #paythepros got….complaints can make a difference, but it’s gotta be more than just us.

[@miaschwartz1074]

Not only did they show off these basics as promos, there are fewer and fewer online conferences for people to even participate in conferences AND conferences are getting less and less approved. Speaking as a level 2 judge

[@Inquisitormateo]

Man I remember I got my Terese Nielsen (we're glossing this part) basic land pack back in 2014 as part of comp and turned it over for a cool $300 cash in a couple days. Back then, this kind of stuff was cool. Now, you're right. The market is too inundated with multiple art styles to make this ever worth anything. As much as I miss the paper game and being a part of the Judge Program, life really means I can't afford to spare the time to invest in this. Especially when the pay doesn't even come close to compensating my time.

[@hero_kage]

Yeah, pretty shitty of WotC. Basic lands as Judge Promos are a joke on so many levels and the joke is not funny in any way.

[@sulmenite6938]

LSS have some awesome promos and exclusives for their flesh and blood judges. I just think wotc have reached the point where their ivory tower is too tall and they simply can’t see the town beneath.

[@TehFoamy]

I’m a little surprised that you talked about how these basics would be a lot more exciting and valuable if they had been released 10 years ago, but then didn’t mention the judge promo basics that came out around the exact same time (2014) to further drive your point home

[@terrencecheung7019]

The 2014 Terese Nielsen Lands were special to some degree too. Not only were they the first judge lands, they could connect and form a panorama as well.

[@birdkeks]

Almost all big companies are getting rid of volunteers. It's because some volunteers decided to sue for back pay and now companies would rather just get rid of them. It's no secret that companies like to make money. So getting sued or the potential for it necessitates them getting rid of volunteer programs.

[@EdwinRosario432]

It's mind blowing to me that you *volunteer* but expect pay. Just say you want to get paid.

[@dustinroberson1865]

I agree 100% with your foil argument. And to that point, there should be no collector booster pack. Initial runs of a card have a foil available. The runs that follow could have a special treatment version that is rare if wizards decides, but it should be 1 per set and once it is printed in that style, it can't be again. No limit to how often they print the basic version of a card, because you want the value of that to be low. The value from the reserve list shouldn't be because they are strong cards and will never be reprinted. It should be because they are the original print runs. There is collectability in the original run (think rookie cards in sports). If this idea doesn't work, then how is there value to old sports trading cards? Tom Brady played for 23 years. That's 23 years of cards being printed from multiple manufactures. There is no game for sports trading cards, so it is nothing but collectability, but his rookie cards are still worth a lot of money.

[@sldoma]

"It's just a fucking mountain" - I love your content mate

[@bubblecheese2506]

Big Companies should hire a rotation of normal people as consultants. WOTC needs this badly.

[@zlink88]

Judges deserve more, but I do look forward to buying one of each of these for my display case

[@iambensummers]

Tin foil hat a bit here, but from an analyst's perspective, I wonder if this is a test to see how far they can go in terms of giving out bad promos and still keep judges. If not many judges quit, they might continue to give out crap promos to "preserve reprint equity" or whatever. Basic lands are simply the worst they could possibly do, there *has* to be some data analysis angle here.

[@bertschumacher2097]

Basics aren't the absolute worst they could print. It's also possible to do a random token as judge foil. Something like a random 4/4 beast, or an obscure token that almost sees no play. I even see Wizards going that low.

[@ENCHANTMEN_]

​​@@bertschumacher2097Honestly a token could still be cool if it was a special judge token you couldn't get elsewhere. Something exclusive and collectable without being a must-have game piece

[@AlienCowThatMoos]

Basic lands and tokens aren't the worst possible promos. For the worst, look at the Lord of the Rings Secret Lair. They could give judges a bunch of draft chaff that doesn't even make your 40 card pile in a draft. From the current set.

[@richardadams7667]

I am no longer a judge because the promo distribution changed so drastically! Absolutely insane that they're now giving out basic lands as well as printing the old promos into the actual ground.

[@nemesix00]

Many judges in southamerica have to Take flights to attend confereces gettin Back Basic Lands in Exchange. This announcement was Made about a week or so, wich means conferences in Q3 will provide in retrospect Basic Lands to compensate transport and accomodation. 😢

[@lobes117]

Vince: "wizards, what are you doing!?!?" Wizards: "I like money" *dax shepard from idiocracy voice*

[@karlcarpenter771]

When I was a Judge it wasnt bad. Signed up for an SCG Open or some convention once or twice a year. That got the regular pay but no promos. Otherwise it was mostly LGS judging. To get the promos you had to do judge conferences and trainings which werent bad and i met a lot of great people. I quit with the Judge Academy roll out. Where we were always told the promos were gifts.. a thank you gifts for volunteering our time and commitment, Judge Academy spun the promos as compensation to recoup the yearly dues, and promises of more work. Covid happened and magic events were closed for 18 months. So much for that more work. Promos started to suck more and more. Players are ungrateful to judges at best, hostile at worse. My LGS realized the didn't need a certified judge if they werent going to hold events bigger than FNM or Store champs. So i had no regrets over losing out on mediocre judge promos and bought a Yawgs Will instead.

[@erikedelkamp473]

In 2014, Judges were given 5 full art basics that make a panorama. They look really nice. And now, you only get 2. yeahhhhhh

[@PleasantKenobi]

And those were in addition to other promos, no?

[@erikedelkamp473]

@@PleasantKenobi Honestly I don't remember if it was the year thing or quarter thing or if a bunch of them came all at once. All I know is you got all 5 basics at once. Back when Full art lands were cool.

[@alexzoin]

Videos like these make me glad that I just print my own cards.

[@tomschwarzkopf]

I’m an L1 and I’m actually looking forward to these. Basics are dope.

[@bryanleblanc5648]

The number is a huge problem too. If they gave you like a full EDH playset (38 or something of your choice of a color), it could be really cool for a judge to bling out a mono deck, or maybe sell as a bundle to a player who really wants the whole set. Promos are never actual compensation but they're a sweet benefit. But... a couple lands? That you might not even draw in your EDH game? Hopefully the judge has a 5c deck that plays... tons of basics? Full-art lands are cool but they are just a strange choice as a promo

[@Manshara2012]

I mean, is it possible that those judge promo lands could be the next guru lands and become super valiable?

[@dirtyshoes7]

Thanks for this. Level 2 here and the quality of promos has been a steep decline from $30 promos to $2 promos with a final insult of literal lands. This is the second time they've given us lands, for the record. Dog poo last time and dog poo this time.

[@Kersakofu]

Ah yes, paying to have a job. The hell is this system? Judges deserve a lot more considering how much effort they put into making the game great.

[@terrencecheung7019]

At one point Phyrexian text Elesh Norn was a highly sought after judge promo, and it wasn't given to every judge. Fast forward a few years and you have all the Phyrexian text praetors in a secret lair.

[@whydoesthisexistpod]

"You don't say to your friend 'haha you didn't get paid enough.'" Oh Kenobi, you haven't seen me and my friends in action. We break each other's balls on a different level.

[@ebbandfloatzel]

Ignoring the controversy behind them, I like unique basic lands like the Guru lands. Gorgeous, stunning, and rare lands are a cool way to bling out your decks. While I don't have the revenue to go that kind of rare and expensive, I personally want to finish out the Godzilla lands for my five color mutate, i liked how the oil slicks looked, and I'm thinking about replacing the lands in my tribal tribal to be the foil etched Snow-Covered Pixel lands. Maybe WotC believed these would be treated like that. Game pieces that are universal, and rare enough to be feel good moments when you sit down at a table and people say "that's a cool basic, I haven't seen that before. Where'd you get that?" "It was a judge promo, -" opening up for stories and such. Or maybe I'm being hopeful.

[@mk177]

I like you are being hopeful, very rare these days. But only good basic lands are white border old ones mkay ? Not these

[@flurbleflurb5588]

I gotta say, I do agree- I love the owls in the art, which is in my opinion is absolutely amazing. Optimistic takes are something which is sadly lacking in the MTG Community, though the company did it to themselves- their terrible handling of the MOM storyline, the audacity of pricing Commander Masters ridiculously high and sending the Pinkertons after someone makes it hard to even consider the company gaining any good will. Honestly, I'll never let that Pinkertons thing be forgotten- utterly unforgivable.

[@Playingwithproxies]

5 basic lands are the most valuable cards in the game they cast all spells

[@EdwinRosario432]

That's why it's crazy. You're right that these should be some of the most sought after cards. Chase variants and normal variants doesn't work, who knew?

[@BriefcaseSam]

That’s why I’m no longer a judge :) I took the “free” year in Academy that I got grandfathered into but I didn’t pay after that. I kinda miss it, got to meet a bunch of cool judges at SCG Open Philadelphia in 2019 I was so excited to do more big events… then Covid and Judge Academy really just killed it for me… if they drop the cost to 0 I’ll happily come back

[@AkiVainio]

So, just so you know, it's Gavin who is responsible for deciding the judge promos. At least he used to be. He is quite easy to reach, so if you love your judges, ask him about his.

[@AkiVainio]

And just to make it clear, please don't harass him. Think of this as a "call your congressman" situation.

[@sleepyrick]

agreed!@@AkiVainio

[@lare290]

flesh and blood actually does that thing with foils: first printing and promo versions can be foil, reprints are always nonfoil.

[@brettbeals4179]

The idea with the non foil reprints is something Flesh and Blood tcg does. makes the foils worth something while helping keep prices low for the non foil versions

[@zacharybecker8228]

I love the look of these lands and id love to get at least one of each for my land collection but as a judge reward thats really underwhelming

[@lracseroom8286]

So Judges getting the same finger players get now. Good job. If I was a judge and this was my "pay" I'd fucking quit so fast your head would spin. Edit: That Painter's Servant is f'inf dope though.

[@Beckola44]

What a JOKE! The Judges Academy is SO Excited that to give the Judges lousy land cards for their services. How low can Wizards go? Wizards loves to go CHEAP CHEAP CHEAP!!! Wizards should be ashamed of themselves but they just do not care. Thank you for the video Pleasant Kenobi.

[@Galaxy-ys5nx]

Flesh and Blood pays their judges in cash, sealed product, and exclusive promos and playmats. Recently, judging events gets you a "judge pack" which has 1 card in it. The card can be one of many premium foil treatments of some really notable staple cards in the game. People buy the sealed judge packs for around $400, or specific cards from them for even more. Just some food for thought.

[@jonweikert5521]

It sucks for the judges but I'm picking up several copies of the islands plains and forests for my bird deck

[@mickeyhadley4281]

Cashbro gives the middle finger to everyone who’s not a stockholder.

[@dag7227]

Hasbro is pretty consistent with the fact that none of their approval hierarchy can generate an external perective on actions Hasbro takes; full art lands are worth X in the set "value" Calc -> sure just give the judges some full art lands

[@markkuhn1297]

And if someone asks too many questions, do they get Pinkerton thugs sent to their house?

[@Renamawn]

Me with a handful of guru lands: yes, single print, exclusive art basic lands given out to a select set of people are worthless. Itll depend on how many are released but i think they're beautiful and I'll be picking up as many as I can.

[@PleasantKenobi]

Guru lands came out fucking YEARS ago, into a very different market, and a different time. Same argument as the "full arts don't matter". These will not be Guru lands.

[@Renamawn]

@PleasantKenobi the point still stands, they're a 1 print set with special (and personally beautiful) art, given out to a small group of people. They won't be guru priced, but they will be valuable. The smartest thing they could do is give out one basic of the judges choice for each event they judge. Even if they get all 5 they're still going to be valuable. I know you have to make click bait titles for the algorithm, but to say it's a middle finger to judges is a bit of a stretch.

[@Lucretzia]

Judges could unionize with DM and GMs to form a union similar to the screen actors' guild. It would make it easier for event organizers and LGS to find judges. Organized play would be come way more accessible. I'd kill to be a full time DM and MtG Event Judge. Baring that work should be compensated

[@EdwinRosario432]

I was just about to say that. Like you can't unionize a group of volunteers. How would the union collect union dues if nobody is getting paid?

[@Lucretzia]

@EdwinRosario432 the money making aspects of this are not going to be available at first. It would start essentially as a contact database. The idea I have is that the events get better with experienced staff, the guild allows people who play and people who referee to have a much better time. Yea it wouldn't start with full time and benefits. But with time and work it could grow and make events like magic 30 something you could do way more often. Like imagine how great it would be if there was actual organization to organized play.

[@timbusbee1483]

The fact that this is a volunteered group is amazing/their Achilles heel. When the system wants to screw them, they can't do anything other than abandon the system and it's OP that gets hurt at the end.

[@Kimch87]

As a judge myself, yes, the promos have been insulting. They were supposed to be at least the value of the cost for a year in the program. This has never been the case as of yet. I am the only active judge left in my area since everybody else have stopped because they don't feel it's worth it when they have jobs and families instead.

[@mooredaxon]

It becomes increasingly obvious with every move WotC and Hasbro makes that they no longer see Magic as a card game. They see it as a currency, one in which they control.

[@its_chris2323]

Wotc doesn't even lose reprint equity like you mentioned towards the end of the video. In 2022 Judges got Smothering Tithe as a promo about a month before it got reprinted in Double Masters with pretty similar art. What could have been like a good piece of compensation was dead on arrival.

[@juancuch4609]

also, the promos are actually the only thing judges get from the new program (not even the training). The "preparation" of a judge is given by other judges and used to be free... and it still is, except now judge academy charges for the certification.

[@sylvaintellier4787]

Is there a way for a publicly-owned company to do anything else than generate profits for its shareholders? I wonder if MtG can avoid its fate, slowly slipping into a game that "USED TO..."

[@Azeria]

The short answer is no. The executives of public companies are legally required to ‘maximise shareholder value’ above all else. I genuinely think that rule is the single biggest thing damaging the world right now. Every company that goes public legally has to stop caring about their customers, their business, the environment or the countries they exist in. Sure it doesn’t matter so much with a card game, but it’s just obnoxious that living in 2023 means that you just have to accept everything made by a major company is going to keep getting worse.

[@kelvariw]

​@@Azeria Absolutely. It's a constant drain and I feel it wearing on me more every month. The fate of the card game "doesn't matter so much", but Hasbro's actions do have serious consequences for the employees, local game stores, and other involved individuals. The same is true for Hollywood productions, large video game companies, etc. I'm irked when I see entertainment fall apart. but I'm PISSED when I see drawers, actors, store owners, programmers, office workers,.. all worked into the ground and then scammed, chasing the endless goal of raising a value that has no limit.

[@gegachxiswulisso9758]

Yeah, these are not the second coming of Guru lands. (those are worth more than a Revised Dual land now by the way)

[@Narabedla4]

the foil idea sounds so insane to me... no wait, that is how FaB does it and it is a good way to both be able to reprint game pieces to lower prices, while keeping the collectible game pieces. Especially when looking at equipments which get their premium foil and normal foil printing and then get reprinted in non foil, sure the basic foil goes down in price when it was the cheapest available option at the time, but the premium foils just.... stay exactly the same, not moving an inch because of a reprint.

[@Meetchol]

Something of note, judges don't get promos unless they participate in the conferences or major events. Those who just got certified to run FNMs (like myself) get literally nothing.

[@ZpMonsterGarage]

The ambassador program has much better compensation.

[@auraaetherbladesigma6939]

WotC and Hasbro better care about the game otherwise their profit first mindset will kill them, long term.

[@codelicious6590]

Its just another symptom of the times this treatment of judges, just like their recent treatment of the LGS it is an absolutely non-sustainable practice and MTG will not last long if Hasbro continues to ignore the fact that the Magic consumer is more and a more complicated entity than a wallet at a cash register. They simply have to realize that this product is much much different than a line of toys or similar items that are produced and sold by the company.

[@EdwinRosario432]

Can you imagine if wotc was a sport and the judges were referees? Guy just runs up to another guy, looks him dead in the eyes and just kicks him in the nuts. Then sticks his hands out like he's an airplane and makes vroom vroom vroom sounds as he runs away. That's wotc right now.